Author Topic: UCLA: You deserve a better job  (Read 7669 times)

yahui168

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UCLA: You deserve a better job
« on: August 04, 2013, 01:33:17 PM »
I saw a commercial by UCLA Extension that started with "You deserve a better job, but competition is tough. How do you build new skills?"

How does UCLA figure you deserve a better job if you don't have the skills for it? How is it that you deserve it even if you do?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2013, 01:52:16 PM by yahui168 »

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2013, 03:15:49 PM »
I saw a commercial by UCLA Extension that started with "You deserve a better job, but competition is tough. How do you build new skills?"

How does UCLA figure you deserve a better job if you don't have the skills for it? How is it that you deserve it even if you do?
Because there are a great many absolutely terrible, dehumanizing, exploitative jobs on the bottom of the pyramid, and nobody deserves that kind of treatment.

yahui168

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2013, 03:30:13 PM »
I would say that those people deserve the opportunity to learn the skills for a better job but they don't necessary deserve a job which they cannot perform.

Jamesqf

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2013, 10:01:07 PM »
Because there are a great many absolutely terrible, dehumanizing, exploitative jobs on the bottom of the pyramid, and nobody deserves that kind of treatment.

Why not?  Not, you understand, that I'm agreeing that most of the jobs down at the bottom are dehumanizing &c.  (And I have done a selection of them in my life.)  I'm just asking why you think anyone inherently deserves anything. 

Sure, a person might reasonably want to acquire skills that will get them a better job (as I did), but they don't deserve it.  They've earned it, by investing effort in learning something that an employer is willing to pay money for.

dragoncar

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2013, 12:11:28 PM »
Because its an ad.  They won't enroll any students by calling them worthless scum.

Jamesqf

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2013, 12:24:16 PM »
Because its an ad.  They won't enroll any students by calling them worthless scum.

Isn't that what they are saying, in effect?  That their customers should get better jobs just because they "deserve" them, rather than as a return on work and study?

dragoncar

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2013, 01:18:46 PM »
Because its an ad.  They won't enroll any students by calling them worthless scum.

Isn't that what they are saying, in effect?  That their customers should get better jobs just because they "deserve" them, rather than as a return on work and study?

No, worthless scum do not deserve jobs or education. 

Jamesqf

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 03:24:42 PM »
No, worthless scum do not deserve jobs or education.

That's not what the ads say!  Of course you deserve that high-paying job (even without getting the education first :-)), or that new SUV, resort vacation, big screen TV, or all the other stuff that ad agencies use that word to sell.  And would ad agencies ever lie to you?

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2013, 06:29:52 PM »
Because there are a great many absolutely terrible, dehumanizing, exploitative jobs on the bottom of the pyramid, and nobody deserves that kind of treatment.

Why not?  Not, you understand, that I'm agreeing that most of the jobs down at the bottom are dehumanizing &c.  (And I have done a selection of them in my life.)  I'm just asking why you think anyone inherently deserves anything. 

Sure, a person might reasonably want to acquire skills that will get them a better job (as I did), but they don't deserve it.  They've earned it, by investing effort in learning something that an employer is willing to pay money for.
By law, there's a minimum level of shittiness below which we have said "no one deserves this". Perhaps you don't agree, but stand with the majority in believing that there is a basic standard of human decency to which employers must be held. I also have seen that there are some very terrible jobs that simply do not meet this standard. That these jobs need done I do not argue; they need to be so dehumanizingly awful, I do. This is why we have basic worker-protection laws; the problem is that they aren't always followed, and do not always apply (for temporary and contract workers, for instance, which are the most rapidly-growing kind). There's also some quibble about the degree of protection those laws should deliver: here in Canada we have decided to draw the line in the sand quite a bit higher than I believe most of your states do, and my attitude on that mirrors that of my countrymen.

That said, "you deserve a better job" probably (hopefully) only applies to a small fraction of the people who will see that ad copy.


dragoncar

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2013, 07:28:44 PM »
No, worthless scum do not deserve jobs or education.

That's not what the ads say!  Of course you deserve that high-paying job (even without getting the education first :-)), or that new SUV, resort vacation, big screen TV, or all the other stuff that ad agencies use that word to sell.  And would ad agencies ever lie to you?

That's what you said they said.  If you don't agree when I say you said that's what they said, then tell me what to say they said and maybe we can figure out who said what.

Jamesqf

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2013, 11:33:50 PM »
(Sigh) I do wish there was a handy way to indicate that I'm being sarcastic :-)

Bottom line, what I'm objecting to is the misuse of the word deserve in advertising, as a means of enticing the suckers into buying things they can't afford (and might not even really want) because they "deserve" them - or as in the UCLA ad, to imply that they can get better jobs with no real effort, simply because they "deserve" them.

dragoncar

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2013, 11:53:18 PM »
(Sigh) I do wish there was a handy way to indicate that I'm being sarcastic :-)

Bottom line, what I'm objecting to is the misuse of the word deserve in advertising, as a means of enticing the suckers into buying things they can't afford (and might not even really want) because they "deserve" them - or as in the UCLA ad, to imply that they can get better jobs with no real effort, simply because they "deserve" them.

I agree.  A particular pet peeve is when ads say "get your degree" (or people say "I'm going to get my degree").  As if it belongs to a someone even before it is earned.

MrsPete

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2013, 09:52:24 AM »
It's an advertising ploy to make a person feel that he should have this or that item.  The first one that comes to mind is McDonald's old phrase, "You deserve a break today at McDonald's.".  It appeals to people who think they are not getting a fair shake in the world. 

 I don't know about you guys, but I'm having a nice relaxing day today.  I ate leftover pizza instead of cooking breakfast.  I cleaned out my closet, carried a trunkful of old clothes to Goodwill, and then stopped at the grocery store.  Now I'm sitting on my butt with my iPad.  What have I done to be deserving?  Oh, I also filled the car with gas; perhaps that little chore put me over the threshold and made me "deserving".

Every American child does deserve an education through high school, and -- if taken seriously -- that's an excellent start in life.  And everyone deserves an opportunity to make something of himself; that is, to be afforded the opportunity to try for jobs.  But beyond that, what you get is not what you deserve . . . It's what you've earned. 

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2013, 07:29:51 AM »
Every American child does deserve an education through high school, and -- if taken seriously -- that's an excellent start in life.  And everyone deserves an opportunity to make something of himself; that is, to be afforded the opportunity to try for jobs.  But beyond that, what you get is not what you deserve . . . It's what you've earned.
So the a guy crippled in an industrial accident, is that what he's earned? It's what he got.

ncornilsen

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2013, 01:56:12 PM »
Every American child does deserve an education through high school, and -- if taken seriously -- that's an excellent start in life.  And everyone deserves an opportunity to make something of himself; that is, to be afforded the opportunity to try for jobs.  But beyond that, what you get is not what you deserve . . . It's what you've earned.
So the a guy crippled in an industrial accident, is that what he's earned? It's what he got.

Nice strawman. That isn't what the person you quoted said, at all. If I may take the liberty of re-phrasing what MrsPete said, it is that the only thing any person inherently 'deserves' is the oppurtunity, and any delta between what a person HAS and what they WANT, is something that individual is responsible for.

I hate to say anyone deserves to be maimed and injured on the job...  however where I work (a metal foundary, dangerous as it gets!) the vast majority of atalities or serious injuries could have been prevented had the person involved followed existing policies, lockout proceedures, not purposely modified safety interlocks, or not been doing something really dumb like crawling over the top of a boiling vat of a very agressive liquid used to dissolve ceramics out of the castings.

So, perhaps 'deserves' isn't the right word, but they certainly had a hand in thier misfortune, just like people stuck in a bad job probably made a handful of choices that put them there.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #15 on: August 13, 2013, 11:00:25 AM »
Every American child does deserve an education through high school, and -- if taken seriously -- that's an excellent start in life.  And everyone deserves an opportunity to make something of himself; that is, to be afforded the opportunity to try for jobs.  But beyond that, what you get is not what you deserve . . . It's what you've earned.
So the a guy crippled in an industrial accident, is that what he's earned? It's what he got.

Nice strawman. That isn't what the person you quoted said, at all. If I may take the liberty of re-phrasing what MrsPete said, it is that the only thing any person inherently 'deserves' is the oppurtunity, and any delta between what a person HAS and what they WANT, is something that individual is responsible for.

I hate to say anyone deserves to be maimed and injured on the job...  however where I work (a metal foundary, dangerous as it gets!) the vast majority of atalities or serious injuries could have been prevented had the person involved followed existing policies, lockout proceedures, not purposely modified safety interlocks, or not been doing something really dumb like crawling over the top of a boiling vat of a very agressive liquid used to dissolve ceramics out of the castings.

So, perhaps 'deserves' isn't the right word, but they certainly had a hand in thier misfortune, just like people stuck in a bad job probably made a handful of choices that put them there.
I think it's clear we're not going to come to agreement on this issue. You seem to be living under the delusion, oddly common amongst Americans, that we live in a just and caring world. It isn't true. You get what you get, and if it's related to what you deserve, it's at best a lucky coincidence. Bad things happen to good people, and there but for the grace of god go I (and you).
I am terribly glad to be living in a more caring society that recognizes those facts.


Jamesqf

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #16 on: August 13, 2013, 12:44:29 PM »
You seem to be living under the delusion, oddly common amongst Americans, that we live in a just and caring world.

Oddly enough, I got the impression from your comments that you were the one who believed we live in a just & caring world.

Quote
It isn't true. You get what you get, and if it's related to what you deserve, it's at best a lucky coincidence. Bad things happen to good people, and there but for the grace of god go I (and you).

Exactly so.  The question is why I (or anyone) should have to carry the burden of your bad stuff in addition to my own.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2013, 10:14:50 AM »
You seem to be living under the delusion, oddly common amongst Americans, that we live in a just and caring world.

Oddly enough, I got the impression from your comments that you were the one who believed we live in a just & caring world.
I suppose you could look at it that way. While causality is non-karmic-- we don't live in a just world-- it doesn't mean we cannot be caring towards one another.

Quote
Quote
It isn't true. You get what you get, and if it's related to what you deserve, it's at best a lucky coincidence. Bad things happen to good people, and there but for the grace of god go I (and you).
Exactly so.  The question is why I (or anyone) should have to carry the burden of your bad stuff in addition to my own.
For no other reason than that if you should stumble, you'd probably like it if someone helped you with your burden. It's the golden rule: if I want help, I have to live in a society that helps people, and to live in such a society, I need to be willing to help others in turn.


ncornilsen

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2013, 11:46:11 AM »
Every American child does deserve an education through high school, and -- if taken seriously -- that's an excellent start in life.  And everyone deserves an opportunity to make something of himself; that is, to be afforded the opportunity to try for jobs.  But beyond that, what you get is not what you deserve . . . It's what you've earned.
So the a guy crippled in an industrial accident, is that what he's earned? It's what he got.

Nice strawman. That isn't what the person you quoted said, at all. If I may take the liberty of re-phrasing what MrsPete said, it is that the only thing any person inherently 'deserves' is the oppurtunity, and any delta between what a person HAS and what they WANT, is something that individual is responsible for.

I hate to say anyone deserves to be maimed and injured on the job...  however where I work (a metal foundary, dangerous as it gets!) the vast majority of atalities or serious injuries could have been prevented had the person involved followed existing policies, lockout proceedures, not purposely modified safety interlocks, or not been doing something really dumb like crawling over the top of a boiling vat of a very agressive liquid used to dissolve ceramics out of the castings.

So, perhaps 'deserves' isn't the right word, but they certainly had a hand in thier misfortune, just like people stuck in a bad job probably made a handful of choices that put them there.
I think it's clear we're not going to come to agreement on this issue. You seem to be living under the delusion, oddly common amongst Americans, that we live in a just and caring world. It isn't true. You get what you get, and if it's related to what you deserve, it's at best a lucky coincidence. Bad things happen to good people, and there but for the grace of god go I (and you).
I am terribly glad to be living in a more caring society that recognizes those facts.

You seem to live under the delusion that trying to work for what you want is pointless. It isn't true.  Smart decision making can get you where you want to go. I certainly didn't luck into my lot in life, it was something I needed to work for. I've never had a problem getting where I wanted to go, when I really wanted it.  I'd be terribly glad to live in a society that kept the ((risk+hardwork)/dependance)=accomplishment equation a little more top heavy.

With regaurds to your last post... I agree that a safety net is a good thing for society. BUT alot of people are 'stumbling' chronically because they won't do anything about it. Perhaps they'd carry thier own weight if they had to.

And none of that has to do with the original thread topic... I still contend that whatever job you're in now, is what you deserve. Want better? Earn it. Get that degree/qualification. It ain't my job, nor societies, to provide that for you.

arebelspy

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Re: UCLA: You deserve a better job
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2013, 12:53:59 PM »
This is a good example of the Tone of the forum being discussed elsewhere.

From the forum rules:
1. Don't be a jerk.
2. Attack an argument, not a person.

I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread.

I think you all understand each other's opinions, and I agree with this comment four posts ago:
I think it's clear we're not going to come to agreement on this issue.

Feel free to continue your discussion via PMs, if you desire.  Cheers!
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