Reddit Guys Got Mad at My Savings Help Me Understand

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

[Metalcat]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

People fucking love to be exceptions.

[dougules]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

People fucking love to be exceptions.

Not me.

[brandon4454]

I save (I think) 45k out of 71k a year. It helps that my car is paid off and my house was 60k I have went the route of having a better than average job as a federal librarian in a very LCOL area. If I were to move somewhere expensive where houses cost 500k then my salary might only go up 20k a year.

It makes much more sense to live in remote areas and bank 63% of my paycheck.

[CupcakeGuru]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

[BicycleB]

I save (I think) 45k out of 71k a year. It helps that my car is paid off and my house was 60k I have went the route of having a better than average job as a federal librarian in a very LCOL area. If I were to move somewhere expensive where houses cost 500k then my salary might only go up 20k a year.

It makes much more sense to live in remote areas and bank 63% of my paycheck.

Well done, @brandon4454!

[damyst]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

People fucking love to be exceptions.

Not me.

I feel like this brilliant joke deserves to be acknowledged, so I hereby acknowledge your brilliant joke!

[Metalcat]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

People fucking love to be exceptions.

Not me.

I feel like this brilliant joke deserves to be acknowledged, so I hereby acknowledge your brilliant joke!

I thought it was perfection, so I left it alone

[jim555]

Reddit is packed with morons, that is your problem.  According to them living below $20K is retirement is an absolute impossibility.  Never mind I have been doing that for years now.  Then they down vote because it is "impossible".

[Metalcat]

Reddit is packed with morons, that is your problem.  According to them living below $20K is retirement is an absolute impossibility.  Never mind I have been doing that for years now.  Then they down vote because it is "impossible".

The concept of downvoting is moronic and necessarily creates ridiculous echo chambers.

Reddit is a great repository of information, but engaging with it is generally unwise IMO.

[AMandM]

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

The educator John Holt, in a different context, said that one of the hardest life lessons for him to learn was that people in chains, when you offer them a way to remove those chains, will often respond with something along the lines of, "What, you think you're better than the rest of us? You're too good for chains?"  "People who feel themselves in chains, with no hope of ever getting them off, want to put chains on everyone else."

[Psychstache]

Reddit is packed with morons, that is your problem.  According to them living below $20K is retirement is an absolute impossibility.  Never mind I have been doing that for years now.  Then they down vote because it is "impossible".

The concept of downvoting is moronic and necessarily creates ridiculous echo chambers.

Reddit is a great repository of information, but engaging with it is generally unwise IMO.

This comment deserves an upvote!

[Cool Friend]

Reddit blows.

[Car Jack]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

We've already seen this quite a few times.  One case, one of my son's friend's parents are in one of the upper sub divisions in town.  He drives a Mercedes and she just bought a new Mercedes.  They just learn after a dentist visit that their son needs braces.  She's in a panic because she can't see how she can possibly afford this.  I'm just like "what?". 

I don't know what our actual savings are, but my investments go up $100k a few times a year along with added investment and $5k savings bonds from our tax return every year.  Of course, both DW and I are maxing both our 401k's and both our Roths when our income allows.  We're right on that border where we can/can't do a Roth.  So $200k'ish, not $300k'ish.  I'm also doing very well with tradeline sales and my "scams" for gas savings, credit card sign ups and even low balance forgiveness.  The other day, I found 4 pennies on the ground as I was getting out of the car to fill up with gas.  I used it in the pay machine in the self check aisle at the grocery store.  In short, I'm a saver at heart.  Others are spenders at heart and will never have spare money.

[DadJokes]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

We've already seen this quite a few times.  One case, one of my son's friend's parents are in one of the upper sub divisions in town.  He drives a Mercedes and she just bought a new Mercedes.  They just learn after a dentist visit that their son needs braces.  She's in a panic because she can't see how she can possibly afford this.  I'm just like "what?". 

Stuff like this is why I just can't have friends. I wouldn't be able to not point that out to them.

[ixtap]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

We've already seen this quite a few times.  One case, one of my son's friend's parents are in one of the upper sub divisions in town.  He drives a Mercedes and she just bought a new Mercedes.  They just learn after a dentist visit that their son needs braces.  She's in a panic because she can't see how she can possibly afford this.  I'm just like "what?". 

DH's career mentor is shocked that DH can even think about walking away from work. Dude, you have known this man his entire working life. As his manager at two different points in his career, you have seen his compensation package progress. (By the way, thanks for pushing through his last promotion, but I am equally grateful that his current manager wasn't able to push through another one last year.) You have been to our home.  You know that he bikes to work, eats a salad for lunch everyday and we never have any ideas when you want to meet at a restaurant. We don't have kids. WHAT DID YOU THINK HE WAS DOING WITH THE MONEY?!?

The mentor says we are lucky to have the option. I point out that the luck is at least partly in preferring a simple lifestyle.

[Metalcat]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

We've already seen this quite a few times.  One case, one of my son's friend's parents are in one of the upper sub divisions in town.  He drives a Mercedes and she just bought a new Mercedes.  They just learn after a dentist visit that their son needs braces.  She's in a panic because she can't see how she can possibly afford this.  I'm just like "what?". 

I don't know what our actual savings are, but my investments go up $100k a few times a year along with added investment and $5k savings bonds from our tax return every year.  Of course, both DW and I are maxing both our 401k's and both our Roths when our income allows.  We're right on that border where we can/can't do a Roth.  So $200k'ish, not $300k'ish.  I'm also doing very well with tradeline sales and my "scams" for gas savings, credit card sign ups and even low balance forgiveness.  The other day, I found 4 pennies on the ground as I was getting out of the car to fill up with gas.  I used it in the pay machine in the self check aisle at the grocery store.  In short, I'm a saver at heart.  Others are spenders at heart and will never have spare money.

I got in a car accident a few years ago in late November. I have comprehensive insurance, so it was only costing me a $500 deductible for 8K in repairs (should have been written off, it was an older used base model Corolla).

Anyway, I cannot tell you the number of people who exclaimed in horror "Oh my god that's horrible! Right before Christmas!!!"

First, I'm a medical professional, everyone knew I made good money. Second, I have no kids. Third, everyone who knows me knows my stance on gifts, we do not do gifts in my family.

But still, even knowing all of these things, it was clear that for them, this would be such a devastating thing that they couldn't help but have an intense knee jerk reaction that I *must* be beside myself upset for this to happen right before Christmas.

At first, I kept being confused and saying "nono, the car should be repaired by then", and then they would look at me all confused, as if we were speaking different languages.

It actually took one of them explaining it to me that for most people they know, a $500 hit right before Christmas would be devastating to their ability to buy gifts for their family.

All I could think was "how can they afford gifts if they can't afford a minor financial emergency???"

[dougules]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

We've already seen this quite a few times.  One case, one of my son's friend's parents are in one of the upper sub divisions in town.  He drives a Mercedes and she just bought a new Mercedes.  They just learn after a dentist visit that their son needs braces.  She's in a panic because she can't see how she can possibly afford this.  I'm just like "what?". 

I don't know what our actual savings are, but my investments go up $100k a few times a year along with added investment and $5k savings bonds from our tax return every year.  Of course, both DW and I are maxing both our 401k's and both our Roths when our income allows.  We're right on that border where we can/can't do a Roth.  So $200k'ish, not $300k'ish.  I'm also doing very well with tradeline sales and my "scams" for gas savings, credit card sign ups and even low balance forgiveness.  The other day, I found 4 pennies on the ground as I was getting out of the car to fill up with gas.  I used it in the pay machine in the self check aisle at the grocery store.  In short, I'm a saver at heart.  Others are spenders at heart and will never have spare money.

I got in a car accident a few years ago in late November. I have comprehensive insurance, so it was only costing me a $500 deductible for 8K in repairs (should have been written off, it was an older used base model Corolla).

Anyway, I cannot tell you the number of people who exclaimed in horror "Oh my god that's horrible! Right before Christmas!!!"

First, I'm a medical professional, everyone knew I made good money. Second, I have no kids. Third, everyone who knows me knows my stance on gifts, we do not do gifts in my family.

But still, even knowing all of these things, it was clear that for them, this would be such a devastating thing that they couldn't help but have an intense knee jerk reaction that I *must* be beside myself upset for this to happen right before Christmas.

At first, I kept being confused and saying "nono, the car should be repaired by then", and then they would look at me all confused, as if we were speaking different languages.

It actually took one of them explaining it to me that for most people they know, a $500 hit right before Christmas would be devastating to their ability to buy gifts for their family.

All I could think was "how can they afford gifts if they can't afford a minor financial emergency???"

The fact they were so confused by what you were saying is telling, though.  I don't think a lot of people get taught basic financial literacy, so how are they supposed to know how to save up for an emergency?  And if having a solid emergency fund is a foreign concept, the idea of FIRE is just going to be completely incomprehensible. 

[dignam]

I've been a long time lurker in the personal finance subreddit and although I post semi-frequently, I created my first OP yesterday.  Basically my question was comparing two scenarios for early retirement: #1 being lower 401k contribs now to employer match, and build up brokerage to bridge me to NRA; #2 being keep maxing 401k and eat the 10% early withdrawal penalty for a few years/use the roth ladder.  I gave rough ballpark numbers of my expected stash at age 52 just for reference (around $2m in both cases)

My God, the number of posts completely missing the point and addressing my choice of retiring early was insane.  One guy posted something to the effect of "Wow, I would not even consider retiring that far before NRA unless I had at least $7m.  Good luck!"  I replied saying, "that's great, but not what I'm after; I'm comparing the above two methods, not whether the numbers are good for one person or the other."  Guess whose post got downvoted and whose got upvoted?  It's insane.

There was one helpful post about SEPP which was good though.

[dandarc]

SEPP is a good choice the later the start-age is. Easier to stomach the "you must take these payments even if you don't need them" for 8 years than 28 years.

[SunnyDays]

I'm in my mid-30s and also starting to notice the divergence of the people who made good decisions and the people who made bad ones. It definitely takes a number of years for it to be really apparent. There's a really good ERE post showing the math behind how some people end up so much ahead of their peers, even with the same income and life situation: https://earlyretirementextreme.com/update-3-interesting-spreadsheet-calculation.html

Wait until you hit your 50's or have high schoolers! The divergence is massive between the savers and non savers. I have friends panicking that their kids are about to go to college and they have nothing saved or their jobs are laying people off in the 50's. They freak out over a $2000 house repair, but spent THOUSANDS on vacations multiple times a year and buy every new gadget and have new cars every couple of years.

They know we had massive unplanned expenses last year (roof damage, tree removal, bathroom pipe burst, basement flood, washer and dryer and fridge all broke, nothing covered by insurance) and then call me "lucky" that we covered all those expenses without stressing.

Not luck. We planned, we saved. Drop mic!

We've already seen this quite a few times.  One case, one of my son's friend's parents are in one of the upper sub divisions in town.  He drives a Mercedes and she just bought a new Mercedes.  They just learn after a dentist visit that their son needs braces.  She's in a panic because she can't see how she can possibly afford this.  I'm just like "what?". 

I don't know what our actual savings are, but my investments go up $100k a few times a year along with added investment and $5k savings bonds from our tax return every year.  Of course, both DW and I are maxing both our 401k's and both our Roths when our income allows.  We're right on that border where we can/can't do a Roth.  So $200k'ish, not $300k'ish.  I'm also doing very well with tradeline sales and my "scams" for gas savings, credit card sign ups and even low balance forgiveness.  The other day, I found 4 pennies on the ground as I was getting out of the car to fill up with gas.  I used it in the pay machine in the self check aisle at the grocery store.  In short, I'm a saver at heart.  Others are spenders at heart and will never have spare money.

I got in a car accident a few years ago in late November. I have comprehensive insurance, so it was only costing me a $500 deductible for 8K in repairs (should have been written off, it was an older used base model Corolla).

Anyway, I cannot tell you the number of people who exclaimed in horror "Oh my god that's horrible! Right before Christmas!!!"

First, I'm a medical professional, everyone knew I made good money. Second, I have no kids. Third, everyone who knows me knows my stance on gifts, we do not do gifts in my family.

But still, even knowing all of these things, it was clear that for them, this would be such a devastating thing that they couldn't help but have an intense knee jerk reaction that I *must* be beside myself upset for this to happen right before Christmas.

At first, I kept being confused and saying "nono, the car should be repaired by then", and then they would look at me all confused, as if we were speaking different languages.

It actually took one of them explaining it to me that for most people they know, a $500 hit right before Christmas would be devastating to their ability to buy gifts for their family.

All I could think was "how can they afford gifts if they can't afford a minor financial emergency???"

Similar situation.  Someone sideswiped me a couple months ago, which led to the insurance company writing it off.  It's a 2003 Matrix that I've owned from day one, kept well maintained and has pretty low mileage for it's age.  Love that car.  I didn't have to pay the deductible, but did buy it back because the damage was all cosmetic and wouldn't affect it's functioning.  People were either A) surprised I would want to keep a car that old when I had a perfect excuse to buy a new one, B) commiserating that I would now have to have a car loan (um, no, I would have just bought either used or new outright if I'd wanted to, or C) shocked that I could afford to keep it because the insurance wouldn't cover a rental, which was insanely expensive, I thought, even though I got at-cost rates from the autobody shop.  It certainly did cost me more to keep it than I had expected (damn you, insurance company), but the biggest grief was just the hassle of it all.  The money never made me lose any sleep, and now I have my beloved back, so all is well.  Not a crisis in my life!

[DadJokes]

I've been a long time lurker in the personal finance subreddit and although I post semi-frequently, I created my first OP yesterday.  Basically my question was comparing two scenarios for early retirement: #1 being lower 401k contribs now to employer match, and build up brokerage to bridge me to NRA; #2 being keep maxing 401k and eat the 10% early withdrawal penalty for a few years/use the roth ladder.  I gave rough ballpark numbers of my expected stash at age 52 just for reference (around $2m in both cases)

My God, the number of posts completely missing the point and addressing my choice of retiring early was insane.  One guy posted something to the effect of "Wow, I would not even consider retiring that far before NRA unless I had at least $7m.  Good luck!"  I replied saying, "that's great, but not what I'm after; I'm comparing the above two methods, not whether the numbers are good for one person or the other."  Guess whose post got downvoted and whose got upvoted?  It's insane.

There was one helpful post about SEPP which was good though.

Yeah, I had to stop visiting the personal finance subreddit. It's not a good place for FIRE people. The financial independence subreddit is much better.

[HamsterStache]

“Still he/she said you need to make $300k to save 60%. If he/she and I were in an exaggeration contest - I think his number is nuts.”

Wait, so you need to spend $120K a year to be happy? That’s more than our yearly income…. Person is crazy…

[HamsterStache]

Yeah, I had to stop visiting the personal finance subreddit. It's not a good place for FIRE people. The financial independence subreddit is much better.

They are a bit pretentious over there - got criticized for saying that RE id probably not a possibility for me but the FI concepts have still been valuable to me.

[partgypsy]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

People fucking love to be exceptions.

Not me.

I feel like this brilliant joke deserves to be acknowledged, so I hereby acknowledge your brilliant joke!

I thought it was perfection, so I left it alone

yes underrated

[partgypsy]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

This might not be typical financial advice, but it is really helpful as an American, to traveled a little in HS and college and see how people in other countries live. My family went on a cruise where we visited a number of islands, off the beaten path, plus spent the day on a couple's sailboat who lived on their sailboat, and also visited Cararcas, where this taxi driver gave us the low down what it was really like to live there (basically there is virtually no middle class and it was a dictatorship). It was very mind blowing to see people's housing, how they fed, got water, didn't necessarily have 24 electricity, power, etc. My ex visited Haiti when he was in HS, a similar mind blowing experience. In comparison the US is relatively safe, abundant food, power, etc (though our public transportation, as well as health insurance/cost is still kind of messed up). Americans simply do have many more opportunities than the average world citizen. If one takes advantage of it, and doesn't blow their time, money, energy etc on stupid stuff.

[DeniseNJ]

I once shared my story of how I went from high school pregnancy, to eventual single parent (after a short marriage where my ex left and never looked back), to putting myself through school and then into the trades, and ending up with a six figure income with great benefits.  I was accused of trying to "bootstrap" people, and offered "a cookie".  Apparently, the request for ideas from the OP was seen by others not as "how to make this situation better", but only "tell me how impossible life is going to be for me now, and there is nothing I can do to not end up on welfare for life."  Because being a single mom is tough, yanno.  And how dare I suggest a single mom try to do school and/or work, don't I know how much daycare costs?

There are a lot of people who don't want to be told that something can be done, especially if it's pointing out their own refusal to do what is necessary to make things happen.

For every piece of practical advice that includes some form of voluntary compromise, there's a yabbit rabbit who's full of objections and "yeah, but" rationalizations about why that compromise is Completely Impossible and not a reasonable course of action despite the fact you (and a whole bunch of others) did exactly that, and lived.

People fucking love to be exceptions.

Not me.

I feel like this brilliant joke deserves to be acknowledged, so I hereby acknowledge your brilliant joke!

I thought it was perfection, so I left it alone

yes underrated

I laughed out loud at this too.

[PDXTabs]

It was very mind blowing to see people's housing, how they fed, got water, didn't necessarily have 24 electricity, power, etc. My ex visited Haiti when he was in HS, a similar mind blowing experience. In comparison the US is relatively safe, abundant food, power, etc (though our public transportation, as well as health insurance/cost is still kind of messed up). Americans simply do have many more opportunities than the average world citizen. If one takes advantage of it, and doesn't blow their time, money, energy etc on stupid stuff.

The average US citizen has things pretty good compared to the average citizen in Latin America. It depends what your frame of reference is. But I do think that it is important to point out that two million Americans don't have access to safe water. The disparity by geography in this country is well documented in Days of Destruction Days of Revolt by Chris Hedges. Are we one of the American success cases (Canada, Chile, and the USA seem to be doing the best) or are we a failure of a western democracy? I think that it depends on your point of reference.

[DadJokes]

Reviving this due to a similar experience recently.

I talked about cleaning my own house instead of hiring a house keeper, with my justification being that I didn't value getting someone else to clean my house enough to justify the cost, and people came out of the woodwork to criticize me for my opinion. A couple of my favorite replies:

"Enjoy scrubbing toilets and dreaming about the future."
"You like scrubbing children's piss and shit off the floor, good for you."

I didn't criticize others who have cleaners, just stated that I'm not willing to pay for one at this point in my life.

[Metalcat]

Reviving this due to a similar experience recently.

I talked about cleaning my own house instead of hiring a house keeper, with my justification being that I didn't value getting someone else to clean my house enough to justify the cost, and people came out of the woodwork to criticize me for my opinion. A couple of my favorite replies:

"Enjoy scrubbing toilets and dreaming about the future."
"You like scrubbing children's piss and shit off the floor, good for you."

I didn't criticize others who have cleaners, just stated that I'm not willing to pay for one at this point in my life.

WOW!

Man, I remember the days when it used to be a really sensitive topic to say you hired a housecleaner, now it seems standard.

It reminds me of another thread where people were talking about how no one thinks they're rich, and part of that has to do with the luxuries that are now considered "standard" in a "middle class" lifestyle.

I remember growing up only "rich" families had pools, took vacations on planes, had second homes, had cleaning services, had their nails and haircolour professionally done, drove luxury cars, had air conditioning, sent kids to private school, had kids in expensive extra curriculars, had stone countertops and homes that looked like magazines, had purebred dogs, got cosmetic procedures, belonged to private clubs/golf clubs, etc, etc.

These are all now the realm of "normal middle class life."

[boarder42]

Reviving this due to a similar experience recently.

I talked about cleaning my own house instead of hiring a house keeper, with my justification being that I didn't value getting someone else to clean my house enough to justify the cost, and people came out of the woodwork to criticize me for my opinion. A couple of my favorite replies:

"Enjoy scrubbing toilets and dreaming about the future."
"You like scrubbing children's piss and shit off the floor, good for you."

I didn't criticize others who have cleaners, just stated that I'm not willing to pay for one at this point in my life.

WOW!

Man, I remember the days when it used to be a really sensitive topic to say you hired a housecleaner, now it seems standard.

It reminds me of another thread where people were talking about how no one thinks they're rich, and part of that has to do with the luxuries that are now considered "standard" in a "middle class" lifestyle.

I remember growing up only "rich" families had pools, took vacations on planes, had second homes, had cleaning services, had their nails and haircolour professionally done, drove luxury cars, had air conditioning, sent kids to private school, had kids in expensive extra curriculars, had stone countertops and homes that looked like magazines, had purebred dogs, got cosmetic procedures, belonged to private clubs/golf clubs, etc, etc.

These are all now the realm of "normal middle class life."

well these people doing all of this are more likely able to be in the 9.9% that is if they saved their money.  but they pay for all these things then blame the govt for taxing them too much as why they can't save.  but the cost of doing these activities and buying these things has decreased quite substantially over the last 50 years IMO. 

Really wish there was a better SM culture around frugality diy and saving.  Someone posts they just maxed their 401k is met with snide comments on facebook.  Some one posts the new jeep wrangler rubicon they just bought themselves while being a stay at home mom and their husband is teacher are met with you deserve it, you go girl. 

There has never been so much wealth above the basic needs and a society in america so afraid that their freedoms are being stepped on.  It is quite insane. 

https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/learning-innovation/rising-inequality-fault-%E2%80%98-99-percent%E2%80%99

[MudPuppy]

Their reactions reveal exactly what they think of people in the service industry.

[Travis]

"You like scrubbing children's piss and shit off the floor, good for you."

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I call that parenting.

[TheFrenchCat]

"You like scrubbing children's piss and shit off the floor, good for you."

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I call that parenting.

You're not an outlier.  I'd need way more than a weekly cleaning service to avoid that at the peak of potty training.  Maybe these people have a nanny/house keeper so they don't do any work.

[dougules]

Their reactions reveal exactly what they think of people in the service industry.

I would hate to be one of the people they're paying to clean their house.  They're probably treating those people about as well as the piss and shit they're cleaning. 

[nessness]

"You like scrubbing children's piss and shit off the floor, good for you."

Maybe I'm an outlier, but I call that parenting.

If your toddler pees on the floor on Tuesday, are you going to leave it there until your weekly housekeeper comes the following Monday? If so, that's way more gross than dealing with it yourself. If not, then either you need a full-time live-in housekeeper or you'll have to deal with it yourself anyway.