Author Topic: Toast!  (Read 6220 times)

spots

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Toast!
« on: July 20, 2016, 10:22:45 AM »

Metric Mouse

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2016, 10:33:25 AM »
Genius.... $3.50 piece of bread sounds delicious.

Sounds like San Francisco has bigger problems than overheated bread prices though...

Reminds me of another guy who was super into toast...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ntiphuey8g

nereo

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2016, 10:45:55 AM »
When you think about it, a $3.75 piece of toast with housemade preserves makes more sense than a similarly priced latte.  There's certainly more time, skill and cost involved with making good jam, bread and butter than sourcing coffee and milk.

That said - best left as an occasional treat for individuals with a cash surplus.

MgoSam

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2016, 11:19:13 AM »
When you think about it, a $3.75 piece of toast with housemade preserves makes more sense than a similarly priced latte.  There's certainly more time, skill and cost involved with making good jam, bread and butter than sourcing coffee and milk.

That said - best left as an occasional treat for individuals with a cash surplus.

Not to mention that their rent (overhead) must be very high being in SF.

I grew up eating crap bread and so didn't really appreciate it until I stayed over at a friend's place and had toast with my breakfast. It can be very good if you buy decent stuff. I'm not much of a baker, but it would be cool to bake my own bread someday.

Inaya

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2016, 11:33:44 AM »
My favorite part was around 2:50: "Consumers aren't stupid. They know value." Then why on earth are they paying for $4 toast? Or $5 coffees for that matter?

To be honest, I'd buy it once (but it would have to be something beyond bread+butter). Heck, I'd even pay $5 if it was a super sour sourdough. Then I could go home and eat all the toast I wanted for pennies.

ETA: You know if they just changed their menu and called it bruschetta, they could charge twice as much and nobody would bat an eye. Serve the butter on the side and it's "deconstructed bruschetta"--charge triple!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2016, 11:44:57 AM by Inaya »

AH013

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2016, 12:56:21 PM »
They can't even make it right.  It's burnt to all hell around the edges.  That's like paying $20 for a souffle, and them bringing you a collapsed one and being like "we're expert artisanal bakers :)"

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2016, 01:02:39 PM »
It's not burnt, it has been charred to perfection.

I would try it once.... fuck no! I bought ze wifey a bread maker... I was tired of her rotis and parathas.

Seriously, we use the bread maker ($50) every weekend. Cinnamon raisin bread, various nut breads, pizza dough, all excellent without any preservatives/additives used in commercial breads.

But it is SF. They live in alternate universe.... now when is that earthquake coming so that CA floats off into the Pacific. Maybe time to get the MDA and USGS honchos together.

Inaya

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2016, 01:18:15 PM »
It's not burnt, it has been charred to perfection.


"Chef's gonna light something on fire for you."
"OOOOOOH!"
...
"So... what was that?"
"Piece of brioche toast set on fire!"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKX7-UQZBzo

Samala

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2016, 01:46:00 PM »
Oh man I thought this was about a semi-local grilled cheese restaurant (they also have burgers.. ): http://www.igettoasted.com/

About the same level of silly.  $8-9 grilled cheese sandwich.  Extra if you want it on GF bread, of course.


jinga nation

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2016, 02:02:04 PM »
Oh man I thought this was about a semi-local grilled cheese restaurant (they also have burgers.. ): http://www.igettoasted.com/

About the same level of silly.  $8-9 grilled cheese sandwich.  Extra if you want it on GF bread, of course.

Eerily, my thoughts were similar. I was thinking of Tom+Chee, who launched off Shark Tank. But that's silly too!

Metric Mouse

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2016, 06:36:57 PM »
Right up there with the $10 mac'n'cheese shops downtown...

LeRainDrop

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2016, 08:05:35 PM »
Right up there with the $10 mac'n'cheese shops downtown...

You just gave me an idea -- put mac'n'cheese on the toast!  Hmm, I might actually buy that . . . especially if they add little pieces of bacon.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2016, 08:12:32 PM »
Right up there with the $10 mac'n'cheese shops downtown...

You just gave me an idea -- put mac'n'cheese on the toast!  Hmm, I might actually buy that . . . especially if they add little pieces of bacon.

And a dash of hot sauce...

Unfortunately no bread or pasta in my house for 3 more weeks... but I may have to try it out after that.

MgoSam

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2016, 09:43:11 PM »
I would try it once.... fuck no! I bought ze wifey a bread maker... I was tired of her rotis and parathas.

Seriously, we use the bread maker ($50) every weekend. Cinnamon raisin bread, various nut breads, pizza dough, all excellent without any preservatives/additives used in commercial breads.

How well is the bread? I've tried baking bread a few times and it hasn't turned out. I can get a bread maker from my cousin (never uses it) and would prefer making my own over buying bread for toast.

jinga nation

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2016, 11:50:50 AM »
I would try it once.... fuck no! I bought ze wifey a bread maker... I was tired of her rotis and parathas.

Seriously, we use the bread maker ($50) every weekend. Cinnamon raisin bread, various nut breads, pizza dough, all excellent without any preservatives/additives used in commercial breads.

How well is the bread? I've tried baking bread a few times and it hasn't turned out. I can get a bread maker from my cousin (never uses it) and would prefer making my own over buying bread for toast.

We use King Arthur bread and whole wheat flours. Add ground up flax seed, which acts as an egg substitute and makes the bread nice a spongy, but not cakey. My wife uses web recipes, then tweaks by reducing the sugar/honey and adding soaked raisins or cranberries.
The breads are amazing. A third to half of the bread is given to my parents and grandma loves it. It will stay out for a couple of days, then wrap it in cling film and then a ZipLoc bag in the refrigerator. Take it out, slice. Toast or make paninis. Made breads with sunflower seeds, pumpking seeds, chopped walnuts, sliced almonds. Similar 1.5-2 lb loaves go for $4+ at the Publix supermarket bakery. More at Whole Foods or Fresh Market high-end supermarkets.

My friend, who recommended the bread maker, said his wife doesn't like the squarish loaves, so she lets the machine mix and do the 2 rises, then takes out the dough, reshapes into a loaf pan, and uses the oven to get the loaf bread shape for sandwiches.

We now eat less bread but no stabilizers/additives in it. I've used 2 week old bread from the fridge for french toast and it was amazing. Fuck the same old store bought shitty bread. I'm a convert!

kayvent

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2016, 10:36:06 AM »
To be honest, I'd buy it once (but it would have to be something beyond bread+butter). Heck, I'd even pay $5 if it was a super sour sourdough. Then I could go home and eat all the toast I wanted for pennies.

I'd have to concur. Near the end I started thinking that if I was ever in San Francisco I'd want to find one of those places and buy some 3.75$ toast. Some of them do look pretty sweet and neat.

Kaspian

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2016, 11:02:33 AM »
My favorite part was around 2:50: "Consumers aren't stupid. They know value." Then why on earth are they paying for $4 toast? Or $5 coffees for that matter?

Word!!  Best cup of coffee I think I ever had was in New York, at a smoky diner counter, served by a woman with tattooed-on eyebrows, in the 80s when Times Square was still a glorious shithole of debauchery.  Cost?  I think it was 50¢.  (Also, she refilled my mug at least once.  They used to do that--refill coffee cups and not charge extra.)
« Last Edit: July 23, 2016, 11:08:14 AM by Kaspian »

forummm

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2016, 12:33:09 PM »
Would I buy it? No. But I can see why it's "worth" $3.75 if you're into that sort of thing. Expensive overhead (SF rent, SF wages, healthcare for employees, etc). A lot of time seems to go into the making of the bread. And it is kind of a premium product that seems more difficult to duplicate at home. But the biggest thing is that you aren't paying for the toast. You're paying for the time that it takes for you to be there and eat the toast. They need to get however many people through each day to make ends meet. It's why some desert at a restaurant is $7--the time it takes you to eat it plus the cost of the desert. You're renting a table.

nereo

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2016, 01:58:10 PM »
Would I buy it? No. But I can see why it's "worth" $3.75 if you're into that sort of thing. Expensive overhead (SF rent, SF wages, healthcare for employees, etc). A lot of time seems to go into the making of the bread. And it is kind of a premium product that seems more difficult to duplicate at home. But the biggest thing is that you aren't paying for the toast. You're paying for the time that it takes for you to be there and eat the toast. They need to get however many people through each day to make ends meet. It's why some desert at a restaurant is $7--the time it takes you to eat it plus the cost of the desert. You're renting a table.

It's funny that you use dessert as an analogy here.  In many restaurants deserts actually loose money.  To understand, think about how much goes into making a good desert. First, you need quality ingredients that are almost all perishable and not particularly cheap; fresh cream, fresh berries, butter, eggs, etc. They take a lot of skill to make well - as much if not more skill than making most feature main courses.  And they typically don't keep very long and have to made ahead of time so there's the very real possibility that you may either run out (bad) or have dozens left over (worse).  Then consider the price - $7 or $8 is the maximum people will pay at a restaurant where the main courses are in the $22-39 range, and customers won't pay more - think about it... would you pay $20 for a flower-infused créme brulée with fresh berries?  Probably not.  Yet the ingredients and skill that went into that créme brulée probably equaled the mushroom risotto that's on the menu for $22. 
Then there's the time you spend in the restaurant - it takes dinners about as much time to eat through a dessert as it does their main course (largely because they start talking to one another), but as we've seen above they get a lot less money for that time.  Better to fill that table with the next set of dinners (if possible).  The hope of course is that the table orders coffees to go with dessert or, better still, expensive cognac, which does carry a hefty markup.  Sadly though, only a very small percentage of tables ever do.
So why do it?  Because clients who eat a good dessert wind up having an even better opinion of their meal, including their main course.  It's psychological - eat something decadent at heh end of the meal and your perception of the rest of the meal improves.

forummm

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2016, 05:52:10 PM »
Depends. A lot of restaurants have premade desserts that they just pop in something to heat them up. Like chocolate lava cake from Sysco. But the time from you ordering your entree to finishing eating your entree is usually much shorter than the time from you ordering dessert to finishing it. A lot of the time it's something like a brownie and ice cream which takes no time (cut out the brownie, scoop out the ice cream, drizzle some syrup over it).

Making Cookies

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 10:21:52 AM »
Word!!  Best cup of coffee I think I ever had was in New York, at a smoky diner counter, served by a woman with tattooed-on eyebrows, in the 80s when Times Square was still a glorious shithole of debauchery.  Cost?  I think it was 50¢.  (Also, she refilled my mug at least once.  They used to do that--refill coffee cups and not charge extra.)

I concur - funny how some thing slike this can be memorable!

One of the best cups I had was at a privately owned family style restaurant in Nashville. Was I think JFG coffee (ordinary stuff). I prefer really strong coffee but that one was REALLY good and mild. The kind I could drink a whole pot of - and I usually don't have more than one of our homemade strong cup a day.

MgoSam

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 01:08:28 PM »
Depends. A lot of restaurants have premade desserts that they just pop in something to heat them up. Like chocolate lava cake from Sysco. But the time from you ordering your entree to finishing eating your entree is usually much shorter than the time from you ordering dessert to finishing it. A lot of the time it's something like a brownie and ice cream which takes no time (cut out the brownie, scoop out the ice cream, drizzle some syrup over it).

You also need to factor the overhead in such a simple pre-made such, and then you still have to consider that an 8 top might sit around for an addition 30 minutes after eating dinner to consume this $6 dessert.

nereo

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 01:31:43 PM »
Depends. A lot of restaurants have premade desserts that they just pop in something to heat them up. Like chocolate lava cake from Sysco. But the time from you ordering your entree to finishing eating your entree is usually much shorter than the time from you ordering dessert to finishing it. A lot of the time it's something like a brownie and ice cream which takes no time (cut out the brownie, scoop out the ice cream, drizzle some syrup over it).

You also need to factor the overhead in such a simple pre-made such, and then you still have to consider that an 8 top might sit around for an addition 30 minutes after eating dinner to consume this $6 dessert.
Exactly.  It isn't so much the time needed to plate the dessert (those are almost all very short) but the added time the patrons stay. When people don't order dessert they tend to pay and leave shortly after their plates are cleared by their server.  When they order dessert they tend to linger.  In restaurant-speak it's a lower table turnover rate.

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2016, 01:42:16 PM »
Serve the butter on the side and it's "deconstructed bruschetta"--charge triple!

Too funny!

Kaspian

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2016, 12:51:47 AM »
In restaurant-speak it's a lower table turnover rate.

But surely that really only matters when you have people waiting for a seat?  I think some restaurants have become short-sighted at ushering people in/out and not thinking long-game.  A comfortable atmosphere where people can linger will reassure you returning customers.  People used to hang out all night in a diner.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2016, 03:57:56 AM »
And then why does every single waitperson try to upsell desert? If its a losing proposition for so many businesses, why do they always ask "Did you save room for desert?" How does this make business sense - if desert is such a poor seller, and such a big loss of revenue, why is it offered on so menus?

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2016, 06:31:54 AM »
And then why does every single waitperson try to upsell desert? If its a losing proposition for so many businesses, why do they always ask "Did you save room for desert?" How does this make business sense - if desert is such a poor seller, and such a big loss of revenue, why is it offered on so menus?

Short answer; because patrons expect it and because customers who order a dessert wind up having a better opinion of the overall meal.  The restaurant makes little to no money off of desserts, but it helps with the overall experience.  Research shows people feel dissappointed if there's no dessert menu even if they were unlikely to order it in the first place.

But surely that really only matters when you have people waiting for a seat?  I think some restaurants have become short-sighted at ushering people in/out and not thinking long-game.  A comfortable atmosphere where people can linger will reassure you returning customers.  People used to hang out all night in a diner.
Yes, it absolutely matters if they can fill that table.  Selling more food is better than selling no food, though even that comes with a cost (staff). It's a tricky line to walk between making customers feel comfortable and welcome while making an efficient business that's supposed to sell the most stuff (here: food) at a profit in a given time period. Many fail exactly because they don't make their customers feel like its a place they can just hang out, while others fail because they don't efficiently manage their tables and have a decent turnover.  Diners operate a bit differently, prioritizing lower costs for everything (rent, decor, ingredients, staff...) and late at night they can afford to let people sit for hours because there isn't a shortage of tables.  But come during the breakfast or dinner rush and its completely different - I first learned the concept of 'turnover' when was a teenager working for a large diner chain (or an "american family themed restaurant").

Some reading, for anyone interested.  I feel somewhat guilty for jacking this thread:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/02/10/why-restaurants-dont-always-want-you-to-order-dessert/

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Re: Toast!
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2016, 09:18:44 AM »
And then why does every single waitperson try to upsell desert? If its a losing proposition for so many businesses, why do they always ask "Did you save room for desert?" How does this make business sense - if desert is such a poor seller, and such a big loss of revenue, why is it offered on so menus?

Short answer; because patrons expect it and because customers who order a dessert wind up having a better opinion of the overall meal.  The restaurant makes little to no money off of desserts, but it helps with the overall experience.  Research shows people feel dissappointed if there's no dessert menu even if they were unlikely to order it in the first place.


That totally makes sense to me.  I can recall having felt slighted after having a nice meal and the server brought the check before even asking if we were interested in dessert, whether we were going to order it or not.  It is a nice little cap on the dining experience to be asked about interest in dessert or if there's anything else they can bring us.