Author Topic: Thought about it before posting  (Read 6994 times)

syednaeemul

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 116
Thought about it before posting
« on: December 24, 2015, 01:43:24 AM »
NYU declines to waive their $65 application fee and 'calls the applicant poor'.

Had to think whether this earns a spot in the wall of shame and comedy, because although the NYU letter would certainly read condescending to whoever receives it, there is some form of good intention with the reference to the $60,000 tuition.

Personal bias: The application is for the School of Arts; as an Engineering graduate I always have this sense of 'but why pay so much for Art education?'

http://www.newsforage.com/2015/12/nyu-tells-student-to-give-up-applying.html

Interest Compound

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 657
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2015, 01:17:51 PM »
I don't see anything wrong with that email response. It seems like the student claimed $65 would be a hardship. Yes, if $65 is a "hardship" you probably shouldn't be applying to a $60,000/yr school that has a $20k max on scholarships. I'm sure the student's original email would add some context to the situation, but of course, that's nowhere in sight.

While the headline of the article is ridiculous, the fact that these tweets went viral is just sad. This is the type of attitude that leads them to hard to feel sorry for these people territory.

Today: "How DARE he tell me to take a year off and save up some money/find other ways (third-party scholarships) to fund my education if I currently can't afford $65 and want a $60,000/yr education? If I want to incur hundreds of thousands in student loan debt for an Art degree, I should be able to do it without ANYONE warning me against it, even the Director of Graduate Admissions!"

5-10 years from now: (an actual quote from the hard to feel sorry for these people thread): "There are two things that bother me the most. One is how the admissions people of the school portray this relaxed attitude toward student loans."


charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2015, 01:15:47 PM »
What I see wrong with the email isn't about the school officer's advice, that's fine and sensible.  It is, however, inappropriate in response to a possibly indigent applicant's request for an application waiver. 

If a poor student should gain admission to that obviously hallowed hall of learning, they have enough on their hands trying to come up with tuition.  An application fee waiver gives them an important break on the front end, before they've even gotten in. 

An application fee is basically a made-up thing, and it is an up-front barrier to poor students even attempting to get in.   

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2015, 01:19:39 PM »
I just think it's utterly ridiculous that tuition is $60k. That's all I hear and care about, especially for a career path (acting) that has incredibly low potential....unless you are on of the .00001% that makes it big like Meryl Streep.

JLee

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6137
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2015, 01:39:47 PM »
I just think it's utterly ridiculous that tuition is $60k. That's all I hear and care about, especially for a career path (acting) that has incredibly low potential....unless you are on of the .00001% that makes it big like Meryl Streep.

Maybe...but Harrison Ford took a drama class in high school. Look at him now. :P

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2015, 01:51:43 PM »
I just think it's utterly ridiculous that tuition is $60k. That's all I hear and care about, especially for a career path (acting) that has incredibly low potential....unless you are on of the .00001% that makes it big like Meryl Streep.

To solve this problem, most actors should double major in sports so they can become a professional athlete in case their acting doesn't turn out the way they had hoped.

StacheEngineer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2015, 01:13:58 AM »
I just think it's utterly ridiculous that tuition is $60k. That's all I hear and care about, especially for a career path (acting) that has incredibly low potential....unless you are on of the .00001% that makes it big like Meryl Streep.

To solve this problem, most actors should double major in sports so they can become a professional athlete in case their acting doesn't turn out the way they had hoped.

And buy a lottery ticket. They'll be so well diversified; there's no way they can lose!

/s

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2015, 03:34:10 AM »
I know two guys that are trying to make it as stage actors in the Twin Cities. They both work office jobs and do auditions and practices at night. To my knowledge, both of them have credit card debt and likely other debts. One of them has commented that he isn't able to get a steady job because his audition schedule requires him to look for more flexible hours, and so 9-5 jobs are out for them. I don't know them well enough to feel like it's my place to offer any advice, but I can't help but think that they are wasting their life.

I can completely understand that acting is their passion, but one of them mentioned that only about 5% of 'professional' actors in the Twin Cities are able to make a living solely off acting. If that's the case, do they think that they are talented and driven enough to make it? I don't know, but I hope that they do as both of them are terrific people, I just wish we got along better so that we could be friends.

steviesterno

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2015, 08:09:35 AM »
I'm honestly not against an application fee. it helps fend off the students who think "aw what the hell, I'll apply and see what happens, even though I don't really want to go there". every application takes somebody time and money to review, which could be better spent on students who are more interested.

but really if you won't find a way to pay for a specialty education (acting, art, medicine, whatever) don't go. that's ok. I took on a load of debt to become a doctor. and I don't like it, but I didn't have 200k on me at the time. If I ever get mad about what I did (nobody put a gun to my head)  I just realize I couldn't do what I do without it, and I love what I do so it's a worthwhile investment/expense to me.

I don't like twitter and FB and other social media in that it can allow people to make a mountain out of a molehill. no, I don't think the response was the best, but it might be a pretty stock answer. And it's true, if you can't swing $60, where are you getting $60,000? Most schools are for profit, or at least can't operate on a deficit. they need money coming in to pay for electricity, teachers, you know the stuff that makes them a school.

I try to help students understand the ramifications of their financial actions, but it's up to them to follow up on it and make good choices.


charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2015, 08:29:19 AM »
I'm honestly not against an application fee. it helps fend off the students who think "aw what the hell, I'll apply and see what happens, even though I don't really want to go there". every application takes somebody time and money to review, which could be better spent on students who are more interested.

but really if you won't find a way to pay for a specialty education (acting, art, medicine, whatever) don't go. that's ok. I took on a load of debt to become a doctor. and I don't like it, but I didn't have 200k on me at the time. If I ever get mad about what I did (nobody put a gun to my head)  I just realize I couldn't do what I do without it, and I love what I do so it's a worthwhile investment/expense to me.

I don't like twitter and FB and other social media in that it can allow people to make a mountain out of a molehill. no, I don't think the response was the best, but it might be a pretty stock answer. And it's true, if you can't swing $60, where are you getting $60,000? Most schools are for profit, or at least can't operate on a deficit. they need money coming in to pay for electricity, teachers, you know the stuff that makes them a school.

I try to help students understand the ramifications of their financial actions, but it's up to them to follow up on it and make good choices.

I can agree that fending off half-hearted students from applying is a good reason for the application fee and the fee itself is ok. 

However, the fee, in equal measure if not more, discourages otherwise qualified, yet poor, applicants from applying.   Therefore, a more appropriate response to a waiver request is certainly call for.

MrStash

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2015, 09:15:39 AM »
I had to pay an application fee when I went to college and I was poor. Why would he be entitled not to pay it? He requested a waiver and didn't get it. Accept it and move on. The dean was even kind enough to sit down and put many valuable minutes of his time into a long response. It wasn't a quick phone call, it was a drawn out email with some specific and valuable advice, even if a bit condescending.

How much the college president makes is ridiculous, tuition costs are even more ridiculous but going on Twitter and blowing this up for no reason is equally ridiculous. Just another Millennial wiener complaining and using social media to crowdsource stupidity. I'm sorry for my own generation.

charis

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2031
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2015, 10:38:59 AM »
Did anyone say that he was entitled not to pay it?  I don't recall seeing that.

jda1984

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 179
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2015, 08:16:58 AM »
Similar to the OP, I don't see this paying off for the applicant if he needs to pay out of pocket.  There are likely a number of organizations that would sponsor scholarships for this type of work.  Honestly though I don't see a one year MA in Arts Politics being a marketable attribute.  From NYU's website:

The M.A. in Arts Politics is an intensive one-year course of study in which artists and those working in the arts in all forms, community activists, and researchers delve into theory and practice from social, historic, cultural and political  perspectives. Students work with exceptional practitioners from the field, as they re define what the field might be. We engage with community cultural institutions and policy makers from New York City, the country and the world.

Tjat

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 561
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2015, 08:23:08 AM »

The M.A. in Arts Politics is an intensive one-year course of study in which artists and those working in the arts in all forms, community activists, and researchers delve into theory and practice from social, historic, cultural and political  perspectives. Students work with exceptional practitioners from the field, as they re define what the field might be. We engage with community cultural institutions and policy makers from New York City, the country and the world.

Wow... while this sounds like it would be interesting for a art enthusiast, I can't imagine it's necessary to succeed in the field. For 60K, this sounds like a very expensive workshop.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3056
  • Location: Emmaus, PA
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2015, 03:15:33 PM »
Students work with exceptional practitioners from the field, as they re define what the field might be.

So they're making it up as they go along? Sounds like a good use of a year of one's life. The applicant dodged a bullet.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1468
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2016, 11:49:50 AM »
Students work with exceptional practitioners from the field, as they re define what the field might be.

So they're making it up as they go along? Sounds like a good use of a year of one's life. The applicant dodged a bullet.

"Unfortunately, nobody can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

SeaEhm

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 447
  • The Guilt is Real
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2016, 09:00:01 AM »
I just think it's utterly ridiculous that tuition is $60k. That's all I hear and care about, especially for a career path (acting) that has incredibly low potential....unless you are on of the .00001% that makes it big like Meryl Streep.

To solve this problem, most actors should double major in sports so they can become a professional athlete in case their acting doesn't turn out the way they had hoped.

And buy a lottery ticket. They'll be so well diversified; there's no way they can lose!

/s

Very good point!

Especially with the powerball expected to be 1.3 Billion!

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2016, 09:07:39 AM »

Especially with the powerball expected to be 1.3 Billion!

I'm now tempted to buy a ticket, mostly for the novelty of it.

EverCurious

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 160
Re: Thought about it before posting
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2016, 08:28:45 AM »

Especially with the powerball expected to be 1.3 Billion!

I'm now tempted to buy a ticket, mostly for the novelty of it.

Careful though. On the off chance that all the lucky planets in the universe align and you end up winning, it can really wreck your life, I hear.

Honestly I feel sorry for the person who might win.