Author Topic: Those SHTF preppers.  (Read 8204 times)

Yonco

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Those SHTF preppers.
« on: January 05, 2014, 09:08:01 AM »
I read this on another forum and my head wanted to explode. He advocates breaking the law and forgetting about  signed agreements. He is finding a way to fish around the fact he is in debt up to his eyeballs and looking for the easiest way out. Then he goes on to say every person NEEDS a car.  Whats your take?

Mcguyverguy Said:
Quote
Having had cars repo'd a few times and a house foreclosed on, and also having bankrupted out of credit card debt once,
my policy since then has been to pay the cars off first.

reason being , while the foreclosure takes months or years to conclude (although they add a lot of attorney fees and stuff which n my case came to more than the back payments owed) you might have time to find money and catch up before the sheriff and moving truck arrive.)

and during that time you can remain in the house months or a year,, I know people still in the houses 3 years after the notice was given... while seeking work, or selling your stuff ..sometimes even extend it with a court "Stay" particularly if you are disabled or have an infant.

as to the credit cards,, yea,, the % gets jacked and the late charges add up,, but in the long run, you can negotiate a settlement when you get some money,,, or you can bankrupt,, or you can simply not pay , and change your phone number to an unlisted one,, and believe this or not... after a while , a few years,, the bad pay record will even disappear from your credit report , because, it costs the creditor a small amount to keep it on there each month.

But the Car, or truck== they can and will tow that puppy away in as little as 32 days..

and without th vehicle you cannot get to a hospital, seek employment, go to work , get to a dying friends bedside... or even....yes,, even bug out.....if the SHTF...

so Me,, I owe on the house,,I pay on time.. have for the last 25 years since the other one was foreclosed,because I could...... but ...if my personal situation ever HTF again... and . if they were to take it,, I would live somewhere else,, a relatives,, or in the paid off van or under a rock..

but without the car Everything gets worse,, no work, no transport, no food even... so my vehicles are paid off.

BPA

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 09:16:11 AM »
Hey!  You can even live in the vehicle.

It seems that the above scenario doesn't bother him in the least.  I'd be freaking out if I were in that situation.  I almost envy his calm, but yeah...glad I'm not him.

daverobev

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 09:40:01 AM »
Um? Actually I think they have a point - you have to prioritise in a situation where you need to. You need shelter, warmth, food. If, in your view, you need a car to work to get money to eat, then sure, focus on that first.

They *were* in debt, they were foreclosed on 25 years ago. They might not be the sharpest tool in the box... But life in the US without a vehicle is very very difficult, I think, especially in certain (less liberal, less urban, less wealthy -> less well educated) areas.

Now - don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you should default on anything - but I don't actually think that's what's being suggested.

Again IMHO - SHTF is possible. Likely, even, over a long enough timescale. I read 'Collapse' by Jared Diamond a while back - very interesting book.

BPA

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 09:49:23 AM »
Um? Actually I think they have a point - you have to prioritise in a situation where you need to. You need shelter, warmth, food. If, in your view, you need a car to work to get money to eat, then sure, focus on that first.

They *were* in debt, they were foreclosed on 25 years ago. They might not be the sharpest tool in the box... But life in the US without a vehicle is very very difficult, I think, especially in certain (less liberal, less urban, less wealthy -> less well educated) areas.

Now - don't get me wrong - I'm not saying you should default on anything - but I don't actually think that's what's being suggested.

Again IMHO - SHTF is possible. Likely, even, over a long enough timescale. I read 'Collapse' by Jared Diamond a while back - very interesting book.

If SHTF includes peak oil, keeping the house might be a better option than the vehicle depending on where it is.  I'll have to check out that book.  Thanks for the recommendation.

Yonco

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 10:18:30 AM »
I agree with the prioritizing!  What struck me hard was that it took "multiple cars" getting repo'd and multiple money problems with houses and credit cards. If i would have a had debt like that it wouldn't take me 25 years to get into gear and paid off. MMM calls that a face punch.  There was not much intensity to him. I tend to believe in SHTF myself, that's why i read those forums.  From economic problems, natural disasters,riots, self/home protection to the occasional zombie infestation.  Its actually fun to learn/practice homesteading, stocking up on bulk sale goods and learning skills with a few long lasting tools.

Rural

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, 10:52:43 AM »
First, I think this guy's a douchebag.

Second, he's pretty much right about the vehicles. Or rather, about one working vehicle at a bare minimum. We're having vehicle issues this weekend, and it's brought home the fact that if we don't have at least one that goes, we can't buy food, let alone get to work. And, no, we can't have food delivered or mail ordered. No delivery vehicle can manage our driveway, and we don't have US mail service at the house; we drive into town to the post office.

Now if in fact the SHTF, Our need for a vehicle would actually go down because we're better situated here than we would be at any place we'd bug out to. But I don't really expect that level of SHTF in my lifetime.

The douchebag's problem is that he thinks the vehicle means a vehicle payment, or at least that's what I got from the excerpt. But in terms of prioritizing? Keep one vehicle running, first priority. Pay property taxes, second priority. We have a couple of years before anything happens with the property taxes as far as government action. Not that we've ever had to prioritize in this way, and I hope we never do. But he's right about the order of operations there. Credit card payments, if it came down to that level of prioritizing, wouldn't even enter the equation.

Jamesqf

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 01:22:35 PM »
Yeah, I have to sort of agree with him, apart from having to have car payments and other general douchebag-ness.  If you pretty much lose it all, and don't have family/friends who'll take you in, a vehicle is much more useful.  In my case, it was a base for several months, and let me relocate to a place ~500 miles away, where I eventually found work.

MrsPete

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2014, 10:21:37 AM »
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go to a dying friend's bedside, but I've had no transportation . . . woe is me . . . no, wait . . . that's never happened.   That's complete crap, just like the rest of the concept. 

Rural

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2014, 05:36:37 PM »
Yeah, I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to go to a dying friend's bedside, but I've had no transportation . . . woe is me . . . no, wait . . . that's never happened.   That's complete crap, just like the rest of the concept.

Oh, he makes stupid arguments, that's for sure.

wtjbatman

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2014, 06:43:14 PM »
But life in the US without a vehicle is very very difficult, I think, especially in certain (less liberal, less urban, less wealthy -> less well educated) areas.

Wait, what? What does liberal/wealth/education have to do with needing a car to commute half an hour from a rural area to an urban one? The only part of your comment that makes sense is saying less urban, as that implies a person has to A) travel farther, and B) there likely isn't any form of public transportation.

I can only imagine you live in an very urbanized area. Or am I wrong?

daverobev

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 09:15:31 AM »
But life in the US without a vehicle is very very difficult, I think, especially in certain (less liberal, less urban, less wealthy -> less well educated) areas.

Wait, what? What does liberal/wealth/education have to do with needing a car to commute half an hour from a rural area to an urban one? The only part of your comment that makes sense is saying less urban, as that implies a person has to A) travel farther, and B) there likely isn't any form of public transportation.

I can only imagine you live in an very urbanized area. Or am I wrong?

I'm talking about NYC, and cities like it. People who live in less densely populated areas/states are more likely to be conservative, no? I'd assume liberals on the whole are more wealthy than conservatives in the US.

I don't live in an urban area, no.

wtjbatman

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 08:18:32 PM »
But life in the US without a vehicle is very very difficult, I think, especially in certain (less liberal, less urban, less wealthy -> less well educated) areas.

Wait, what? What does liberal/wealth/education have to do with needing a car to commute half an hour from a rural area to an urban one? The only part of your comment that makes sense is saying less urban, as that implies a person has to A) travel farther, and B) there likely isn't any form of public transportation.

I can only imagine you live in an very urbanized area. Or am I wrong?

I'm talking about NYC, and cities like it. People who live in less densely populated areas/states are more likely to be conservative, no? I'd assume liberals on the whole are more wealthy than conservatives in the US.

I don't live in an urban area, no.

Honestly I can't speak to whether liberals or conservatives are wealthier.

And I was wrong about you living in an urban area, so I'd probably be wrong about that too :D

daverobev

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2014, 07:21:31 AM »
But life in the US without a vehicle is very very difficult, I think, especially in certain (less liberal, less urban, less wealthy -> less well educated) areas.

Wait, what? What does liberal/wealth/education have to do with needing a car to commute half an hour from a rural area to an urban one? The only part of your comment that makes sense is saying less urban, as that implies a person has to A) travel farther, and B) there likely isn't any form of public transportation.

I can only imagine you live in an very urbanized area. Or am I wrong?

I'm talking about NYC, and cities like it. People who live in less densely populated areas/states are more likely to be conservative, no? I'd assume liberals on the whole are more wealthy than conservatives in the US.

I don't live in an urban area, no.

Honestly I can't speak to whether liberals or conservatives are wealthier.

And I was wrong about you living in an urban area, so I'd probably be wrong about that too :D

I'm not saying there are no wealthy conservatives, but if you look at those that vote day in, day out Republican or Conservative or whatever - they are the rural poor, and often those that would benefit from a different party.

As with everything, as I age, stuff gets more blurred. I am at once very sensitive to green matters, but also in many ways a raving conservative ("small 'c' conservative").

ncornilsen

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2014, 12:17:36 PM »
Dave,

I tend to notice the exact opposite. Those who tend to vote day in, day out conservative seem to the more wealthy, more educated people I know. The liberals tend to be super pro-union, uneducated hourly workers. There's a good mix of uneducated, camo-wearing conservatives in there too, but none the less.

But, I should say those with educations that I tend to associate with are educated in engineering, finance, and management... Which develop high levels of practical and critical thinking, and statistical analysis, which may have some impact on their voting preferences.

As for the necessity of vehicles, I read a report a few years ago that having a car was more important to your earning potential than having a highschool diploma. Can't find the report now... go figure.



RootofGood

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2014, 02:22:24 PM »
In my case, I needed a car for work tasks during the day (at my old government job).  It wasn't exactly a requirement posted in the job posting, but I don't know how I could have feasibly performed my job without it.  The fleet services lot that lets you check out government cars would have been either a loooong bike ride or an even longer transit ride (with connections).  Each way. 

So +1 on the car.  I suppose I could always crash at my parents or my in-laws or somewhere else. 

From my lofty FI perch, it's hard to even conceptualize the level of broke required to face a real choice between housing and a car.  I don't really know anyone in my city who doesn't own a car (but I do know a few people crashing at family or friend's houses).  Obviously the uncarred exist in my city.  See, for example, many of the municipal bus passengers. 

infogoon

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2014, 08:48:09 AM »
I'm not saying there are no wealthy conservatives, but if you look at those that vote day in, day out Republican or Conservative or whatever - they are the rural poor, and often those that would benefit from a different party.

I was thinking about this statement this morning, and I don't know if it's entirely accurate. Assuming that you mean they would benefit from the Democratic Party rather than the Republican Party, the Democrats' main solution to rural problems seems to be "move out of the sticks and into a proper city, you dummy". Neither of the main parties seems especially interested in the rural poor, but the Republican at least pay enough lip service to the Real America (tm) and Christian Nation (tm) themes to pretend they're on the same side.

daverobev

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Re: Those SHTF preppers.
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2014, 09:08:07 AM »
I'm not saying there are no wealthy conservatives, but if you look at those that vote day in, day out Republican or Conservative or whatever - they are the rural poor, and often those that would benefit from a different party.

I was thinking about this statement this morning, and I don't know if it's entirely accurate. Assuming that you mean they would benefit from the Democratic Party rather than the Republican Party, the Democrats' main solution to rural problems seems to be "move out of the sticks and into a proper city, you dummy". Neither of the main parties seems especially interested in the rural poor, but the Republican at least pay enough lip service to the Real America (tm) and Christian Nation (tm) themes to pretend they're on the same side.

Ok, I'm not a real expert on US politics. I am thinking of social programs - benefits for the unemployed, affordable care, etc. In the UK, the Tories are about small government, cuts to the NHS, etc - tax breaks for businesses -> trickle down. Where the Lib Dems and Labour are much more... yes you can be on long term disability, if it's obvious we won't try and take it away from you. Ugh. It's hard to describe without being biased ;) Here in Canada it seems the same - staunch Conservatives would probably be better off under the Liberals.

Maybe this has changed in the last few years, and of course it changes depending on who is in power (because being in power leads to being exposed to blame, I suppose).