Author Topic: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.  (Read 18497 times)

Kitsune

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This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« on: May 12, 2016, 07:13:25 AM »
Rant: why, why WHY can women-focused blogs not use the word 'INVESTMENT' correctly?

Investment: placing time/money somewhere in hopes/expectation of a financial return.

It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)
- A handbag
- A haircut
- A blazer/dress/pair of pants/piece of clothing
- A piece of jewelry (which is sold at such a severe mark-up that you'd never sell it for CLOSE to what you paid. Ask people trying to offload old engagement rings.)
- A dinner out with friends, etc

There's this thing about using 'investment' as a word to mean 'I spent money on this thing and I like it and it makes me feel good', and NO.

Your handbag is a great addition to your wardrobe. It is useful. It looks great. You're super happy you bought it. You're getting tons of use out of it and the cost-per-wear is super low. That's GREAT. I'm right there with you. BUT IT ISN'T AN INVESTMENT. It's an expense that you're happy with.

Torran

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2016, 07:19:04 AM »
Uuugh I SO AGREE with you! This drives me nuts.

Womens' magazines are so patronizing and full of complete nonsense (I mean that literally - nonsense as in bad grammar and sentences that don't really mean anything. RAGE).

I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

Ah, that felt so good to rant about. Thanks.

boarder42

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2016, 07:24:07 AM »
well isnt it an investment if it lands you a sugar daddy that you can milk for the rest of your life and not work a day and hire a nanny for your kids and a house cleaner?

just playing devils advocate.  - obviously the exception not the norm

Kitsune

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2016, 07:28:39 AM »
Uuugh I SO AGREE with you! This drives me nuts.

Womens' magazines are so patronizing and full of complete nonsense (I mean that literally - nonsense as in bad grammar and sentences that don't really mean anything. RAGE).

I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

Ah, that felt so good to rant about. Thanks.

Exactly! Like, my expensive handbag works out to 6 cents per day in cost-per wear. Which makes it NOT AN INVESTMENT, because it is something that is COSTING ME MONEY. (Not much, and I like it, and it looks good, and I don't regret the purchase, but the fact remains: considered and successful expense, NOT investment.)

If I was buying 15 of them at 200$ each and selling them for 300$ each, I could possibly see the argument of it as an investment... but until then, shaddup, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

charis

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2016, 07:33:49 AM »
well isnt it an investment if it lands you a sugar daddy that you can milk for the rest of your life and not work a day and hire a nanny for your kids and a house cleaner?

just playing devils advocate.  - obviously the exception not the norm

I guess for some people, having a certain look can be an investment (not in traditional sense) - maybe we should ask all of those "real" housewives.   But no one can convince me that a handbag is ANYTHING.

acroy

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2016, 07:44:09 AM »
Almost everything in in print (physical or electronic) exists for 1 purpose

TO SELL YOU SOMETHING

Using nice words like 'investment' help the readers self-justify the purchase.

MishMash

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2016, 07:52:09 AM »
I dunno, jewelry can be an investment.  Of course I usually buy it at yardsales for like a dollar then turn around and sell the stones and gold ;-)  Same with high name purses.  It CAN be an investment, all depends on what you paid for it and what you flip it for to people that actually care about that stuff lol

Torran

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2016, 07:55:38 AM »
Actually, I buy handbags in charity shops and then sometimes after a few years I sell them on ebay. I have occasionally made a small profit that way. Ta da, handbag as investment! Not quite what the consumerist-lifestyle lady-magazines had in mind though I suspect.

With This Herring

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2016, 08:21:00 AM »
*snip*
If I was buying 15 of them at 200$ each and selling them for 300$ each, I could possibly see the argument of it as an investment... but until then, shaddup, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
I dunno, jewelry can be an investment.  Of course I usually buy it at yardsales for like a dollar then turn around and sell the stones and gold ;-)  Same with high name purses.  It CAN be an investment, all depends on what you paid for it and what you flip it for to people that actually care about that stuff lol
Actually, I buy handbags in charity shops and then sometimes after a few years I sell them on ebay. I have occasionally made a small profit that way. Ta da, handbag as investment! Not quite what the consumerist-lifestyle lady-magazines had in mind though I suspect.

Heck, even with buying and reselling, if it is short-term they are looking for the term "inventory" anyway!
Buying a purse factory = investment
Buying specific purses with the intent to resell them in X years when the price has increased substantially (ideally without using them) = investment (not necessarily a good one)
Buying purses to resell at a higher price ASAP = inventory, and smart!
Buying that cute purse that is super fashionable to replace last season's purse that is so passe = money down the drain

Vanguards and Lentils

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2016, 08:27:03 AM »
I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

My brain just shuts down when someone uses the "X cents per day" line. We get literally ONE number to compare similar products with each other, but oh, let's forget about that number and make up another one that sounds small!

shotgunwilly

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2016, 08:32:08 AM »
Fake breasts are quite the investment for some women.

MishMash

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2016, 08:50:17 AM »
*snip*
If I was buying 15 of them at 200$ each and selling them for 300$ each, I could possibly see the argument of it as an investment... but until then, shaddup, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
I dunno, jewelry can be an investment.  Of course I usually buy it at yardsales for like a dollar then turn around and sell the stones and gold ;-)  Same with high name purses.  It CAN be an investment, all depends on what you paid for it and what you flip it for to people that actually care about that stuff lol
Actually, I buy handbags in charity shops and then sometimes after a few years I sell them on ebay. I have occasionally made a small profit that way. Ta da, handbag as investment! Not quite what the consumerist-lifestyle lady-magazines had in mind though I suspect.

Heck, even with buying and reselling, if it is short-term they are looking for the term "inventory" anyway!
Buying a purse factory = investment
Buying specific purses with the intent to resell them in X years when the price has increased substantially (ideally without using them) = investment (not necessarily a good one)
Buying purses to resell at a higher price ASAP = inventory, and smart!
Buying that cute purse that is super fashionable to replace last season's purse that is so passe = money down the drain

Yea I don't actually use a purse, DH had to fight with me to even start carrying a skinny wallet so I routinely buy Coach, Louis Vuitton, vintage larger names like Chanel, Gucci etc (usually from the 60's) and flip em asap.  I did keep one, a Louis Vuitton speedy that I paid 10 bucks for...just to lord it over my overly consumerist, total name brand whore, sister who consistently made fun of me for not being "cool" and keeps saying I MUST be poor, and unsuccessful, because I don't carry name brand crap and care about frugality.  It's a stupid expensive purse and she can't afford one so I brought it to this years Thanksgiving, she about died, gave me stink eye the rest of the day.

Small of me, I know, but karma's a bitch (can you tell we don't get along at all).  Figure I'll keep it a year and then sell it.  Mom says mission jealousy was a success as she's been pumping mom for how much I make etc.   She's stopped telling the rest of the family I'm poor though so win win?

Kitsune

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2016, 08:53:44 AM »
I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

My brain just shuts down when someone uses the "X cents per day" line. We get literally ONE number to compare similar products with each other, but oh, let's forget about that number and make up another one that sounds small!

Enh. I think there's some value to it, sometimes. Compare 2 pairs of black pants I have bought and worn, that looked similar: 1 was 32$, 1 was 105$. Both worn 2-3 times per week, year-round. Pair 1 lasted 6 months (Cost-per-wear: 1.3$ish). Pair 2 is 7 years in and going strong (cost-per-wear: about 25 cents, so far). The value in the cost-per-wear analysis is that sometimes (SOMETIMES, definitely not always), it's worth paying more for a 'similar' thing because it will last longer and avoid buying replacements.

The hiccup of that analysis is that people always use the things they wind up wearing lots to do that analysis and say 'look, it's better to buy quality!' SOMETIMES, it is. But if you're looking at beach shoes you're gonna wear 3x/year: get the cheap ones. Or winter boots: your everyday, keep your feet warm and wear into the ground boots: spend the $, get ones that'll last 6 years. But ONE pair, and DON'T use that to justify having 4 pairs and say 'but look, the cost per wear is low'; you're still spending way more htan you need.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2016, 09:06:33 AM »
Uuugh I SO AGREE with you! This drives me nuts.

Womens' magazines are so patronizing and full of complete nonsense (I mean that literally - nonsense as in bad grammar and sentences that don't really mean anything. RAGE).

I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

Ah, that felt so good to rant about. Thanks.

Things that are marketed to female humans tend to be written in "baby talk". Either the advertisers or the target market is stupid. I have no desire to do business with stupid people, and I also don't care to be ripped off, so I try to avoid things that are marketed to women. In the process, I dodge most of what I've come to call "the c**t tax".

MgoSam

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2016, 09:16:35 AM »
A friend of mine wants to buy a waterproof portable speaker and thinks it will be a great "investment." I asked him if he was planning on renting it out or if he was hoping it would appreciate in value.

Chris22

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2016, 10:10:42 AM »
I do think there is a secondary definition to the word investment, beyond "something that makes you money" and it's "something that saves you money."  So, if you "invest" in a nicer, higher quality something, and that purchase results in lower future expenditures, that can be an "investment".  For instance, LED light bulbs or more efficient X will, in the long run, save money.  I look at certain clothing expenditures as an "investment" (with quotes) because those things will last a long time.  I have two pairs of extremely nice dress shoes (brown and black), with a price tag that would give some people fits, but prior to buying them I was burning through cheapo $80 DSW dress shoes every 6 months or so.  Given that the shoes I bought should last many years (the brown pair is on its 3rd year already with no visible wear), they will pay for themselves at some point.  If you want to stretch that even further, you could argue that if you bought a $300 purse, it will be the be-all, end-all for purses for you, and you can stop buying $30 purses every other month for next 5 years, I guess you can call that an "investment" but in order for it to work you have to actually stop buying other shit.  You can't "invest" in a new $300 purse every season, then it's just a purchase.

iris lily

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2016, 10:12:49 AM »
I dunno, jewelry can be an investment.  Of course I usually buy it at yardsales for like a dollar then turn around and sell the stones and gold ;-)  Same with high name purses.  It CAN be an investment, all depends on what you paid for it and what you flip it for to people that actually care about that stuff lol
For 99.9% of peolpe who buy fine jewelry, it is most definitely not an investment meaning they will realize no profit from its sale.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 10:16:53 AM by iris lily »

ariapluscat

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2016, 10:14:21 AM »
I think it's being used as an 'investment in your future' type of sense. I might be in this mindset because I just started working and have been 'investing' in a work wardrobe. There's a lot of 'dress for the job you want' advice in these magazines and even in college too, although how applicable the vogue magazine advice is to most readers is probably variable by how close they are to a visible position and the fashion industry.

I do think some clothing things are a bit of an investment, even if it's hard to quantify. I think everyone would agree that showing up to an interview well dressed is helpful to getting a job. At my work, I do receive comments on my appearance and professional dress, especially since my job is listed as a visible position. Women who work in sales have described to me how there's pressure from their boss to dress a certain way to keep/advance their job and also pressure from customers in how much they're trusted or approached.

Would thinking of it this way count more as a investment?
I spent $x on this dress to an interview. It helped me get a job that paid $y and likely raised my offer by z%. I wore the dress a times, for x/a cost per wear. So I can wear this dress to several more interviews at other companies, continuing to improve offers by z%. this dress also has a resale value of q.

But this sort of logic only applies to work clothes. I'm always amazed by how little most women's magazines talk about work clothes or work in general, considering most women work. Like don't cosmopolitan women work? i don't get that...

iris lily

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2016, 10:15:54 AM »
Uuugh I SO AGREE with you! This drives me nuts.

Womens' magazines are so patronizing and full of complete nonsense (I mean that literally - nonsense as in bad grammar and sentences that don't really mean anything. RAGE).

I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

Ah, that felt so good to rant about. Thanks.

Things that are marketed to female humans tend to be written in "baby talk". Either the advertisers or the target market is stupid. I have no desire to do business with stupid people, and I also don't care to be ripped off, so I try to avoid things that are marketed to women. In the process, I dodge most of what I've come to call "the c**t tax".

I'm gonna have to ho back through your posts and skim them. I've recently noticed that youve got some wisdom going on there, and expressed in an arch way. Me likee!

serpentstooth

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2016, 10:17:41 AM »
Fake breasts are quite the investment for some women.

I once knew a stripper who was saving for implants. She said most of her coworkers made back the cost of theirs within two months...

Spork

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 10:23:08 AM »
It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)

...and probably not even a restored classic.  You're likely to pour more into it than you can get back out.  If you are awesome at mechanical/body work and fix-up/flip a classic, you might do okay.  Buying, holding, repairing: you are unlikely to beat inflation.

I've got one I bought in 1983 for about $3000.  In its current condition, on a good day, full moon, winds out of the south, cool breeze: I might get $10k.  While that outpaces inflation, that's not counting the $20k or so I've put into it over the years. 

Scandium

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 10:24:37 AM »
This is not unique to women's magazines. Tech blogs constantly talk about how this or that gadget (which will be outdated or obsolete in ~12 months tops) is an "investment". It's hard to be less investment than something that will go to zero value in less than about 5 years no matter what you do. Jewelry and handbags at least would hold up better..
But better get that phone case to "protect your investment"!

Kitsune

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 10:25:06 AM »
Fake breasts are quite the investment for some women.

I once knew a stripper who was saving for implants. She said most of her coworkers made back the cost of theirs within two months...

Well, a friend of mine spent 600$ on a custom leather corset. Which sounds RIDICULOUS, until you realize that she was making 200$/hour and it was 'work clothes'.

I mean, in that sense, work clothes can be KIND OF an investment. But they have to be linked to a return that you wouldn't otherwise get.

Chris22

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 10:26:45 AM »
It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)

...and probably not even a restored classic.  You're likely to pour more into it than you can get back out.  If you are awesome at mechanical/body work and fix-up/flip a classic, you might do okay.  Buying, holding, repairing: you are unlikely to beat inflation.

I've got one I bought in 1983 for about $3000.  In its current condition, on a good day, full moon, winds out of the south, cool breeze: I might get $10k.  While that outpaces inflation, that's not counting the $20k or so I've put into it over the years.

But there are degrees of this.  Car guys talk about all the time how you can go buy a new Miata for $25k, and drive it for 5 years on sunny weekends, and you have a $10k Miata.  Or, you cna buy a $25k 5y/o Corvette or Porsche, and drive it for 5 years on sunny weekends, and you have a $20k Corvette or Porsche.  I don't think anyone with any brains says "I can make a bunch of money investing in cars" but plenty of smart people do say "I want to drive a cool car, I can do that without really spending a lot of money by minimizing depreciation."

Spork

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2016, 10:36:13 AM »
It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)

...and probably not even a restored classic.  You're likely to pour more into it than you can get back out.  If you are awesome at mechanical/body work and fix-up/flip a classic, you might do okay.  Buying, holding, repairing: you are unlikely to beat inflation.

I've got one I bought in 1983 for about $3000.  In its current condition, on a good day, full moon, winds out of the south, cool breeze: I might get $10k.  While that outpaces inflation, that's not counting the $20k or so I've put into it over the years.

But there are degrees of this.  Car guys talk about all the time how you can go buy a new Miata for $25k, and drive it for 5 years on sunny weekends, and you have a $10k Miata.  Or, you cna buy a $25k 5y/o Corvette or Porsche, and drive it for 5 years on sunny weekends, and you have a $20k Corvette or Porsche.  I don't think anyone with any brains says "I can make a bunch of money investing in cars" but plenty of smart people do say "I want to drive a cool car, I can do that without really spending a lot of money by minimizing depreciation."

Absolutely.  But we're talking "minimized entertainment expense" and not "investment."

I know silly 18 year old me thought my car was going to be an investment.  Silly 51 year old me that still has trouble selling it knows better.

Chris22

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 10:47:15 AM »
It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)

...and probably not even a restored classic.  You're likely to pour more into it than you can get back out.  If you are awesome at mechanical/body work and fix-up/flip a classic, you might do okay.  Buying, holding, repairing: you are unlikely to beat inflation.

I've got one I bought in 1983 for about $3000.  In its current condition, on a good day, full moon, winds out of the south, cool breeze: I might get $10k.  While that outpaces inflation, that's not counting the $20k or so I've put into it over the years.

But there are degrees of this.  Car guys talk about all the time how you can go buy a new Miata for $25k, and drive it for 5 years on sunny weekends, and you have a $10k Miata.  Or, you cna buy a $25k 5y/o Corvette or Porsche, and drive it for 5 years on sunny weekends, and you have a $20k Corvette or Porsche.  I don't think anyone with any brains says "I can make a bunch of money investing in cars" but plenty of smart people do say "I want to drive a cool car, I can do that without really spending a lot of money by minimizing depreciation."

Absolutely.  But we're talking "minimized entertainment expense" and not "investment."

I know silly 18 year old me thought my car was going to be an investment.  Silly 51 year old me that still has trouble selling it knows better.

Sure, I just think it's a semantic argument, or doesn't make allowances for colloquialism.  Something can be an "investment" versus something else, even if it isn't an investment versus stocks/bonds/etc.  Note "investment" versus investment.

VaCPA

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2016, 11:05:26 AM »
I think it's being used as an 'investment in your future' type of sense. I might be in this mindset because I just started working and have been 'investing' in a work wardrobe. There's a lot of 'dress for the job you want' advice in these magazines and even in college too, although how applicable the vogue magazine advice is to most readers is probably variable by how close they are to a visible position and the fashion industry.

I do think some clothing things are a bit of an investment, even if it's hard to quantify. I think everyone would agree that showing up to an interview well dressed is helpful to getting a job. At my work, I do receive comments on my appearance and professional dress, especially since my job is listed as a visible position. Women who work in sales have described to me how there's pressure from their boss to dress a certain way to keep/advance their job and also pressure from customers in how much they're trusted or approached.

Would thinking of it this way count more as a investment?
I spent $x on this dress to an interview. It helped me get a job that paid $y and likely raised my offer by z%. I wore the dress a times, for x/a cost per wear. So I can wear this dress to several more interviews at other companies, continuing to improve offers by z%. this dress also has a resale value of q.

But this sort of logic only applies to work clothes. I'm always amazed by how little most women's magazines talk about work clothes or work in general, considering most women work. Like don't cosmopolitan women work? i don't get that...

Totally agree with this. Going to school is an investment, even though it doesn't directly make you money. An upgraded wardrobe could be considered a similar investment if the thought is it will help you career. I agree with the OP on some of the examples being silly though. Like a handbag or jewelry is probably too minor an accessory to have a material impact but in certain careers being very well dressed could conceivably help you.

onehair

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2016, 11:07:54 AM »
If you're a model/entertainer the right haircut might be an investment but other than that they are expenses...

mm1970

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2016, 11:15:13 AM »
I think it's being used as an 'investment in your future' type of sense. I might be in this mindset because I just started working and have been 'investing' in a work wardrobe. There's a lot of 'dress for the job you want' advice in these magazines and even in college too, although how applicable the vogue magazine advice is to most readers is probably variable by how close they are to a visible position and the fashion industry.

I do think some clothing things are a bit of an investment, even if it's hard to quantify. I think everyone would agree that showing up to an interview well dressed is helpful to getting a job. At my work, I do receive comments on my appearance and professional dress, especially since my job is listed as a visible position. Women who work in sales have described to me how there's pressure from their boss to dress a certain way to keep/advance their job and also pressure from customers in how much they're trusted or approached.

Would thinking of it this way count more as a investment?
I spent $x on this dress to an interview. It helped me get a job that paid $y and likely raised my offer by z%. I wore the dress a times, for x/a cost per wear. So I can wear this dress to several more interviews at other companies, continuing to improve offers by z%. this dress also has a resale value of q.

But this sort of logic only applies to work clothes. I'm always amazed by how little most women's magazines talk about work clothes or work in general, considering most women work. Like don't cosmopolitan women work? i don't get that...

Totally agree with this. Going to school is an investment, even though it doesn't directly make you money. An upgraded wardrobe could be considered a similar investment if the thought is it will help you career. I agree with the OP on some of the examples being silly though. Like a handbag or jewelry is probably too minor an accessory to have a material impact but in certain careers being very well dressed could conceivably help you.
Yes, I'm going to agree that an upgraded wardrobe may be an investment, if it helps you get a higher paying job.

Similarly, good food/ exercise is an investment in your health.

But most of the "investment" stuff is BS.

Daleth

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #29 on: May 12, 2016, 11:36:06 AM »
Rant: why, why WHY can women-focused blogs not use the word 'INVESTMENT' correctly?

Investment: placing time/money somewhere in hopes/expectation of a financial return.

It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)
- A handbag
- A haircut
- A blazer/dress/pair of pants/piece of clothing
- A piece of jewelry (which is sold at such a severe mark-up that you'd never sell it for CLOSE to what you paid. Ask people trying to offload old engagement rings.)
- A dinner out with friends, etc

There's this thing about using 'investment' as a word to mean 'I spent money on this thing and I like it and it makes me feel good', and NO.

Your handbag is a great addition to your wardrobe. It is useful. It looks great. You're super happy you bought it. You're getting tons of use out of it and the cost-per-wear is super low. That's GREAT. I'm right there with you. BUT IT ISN'T AN INVESTMENT. It's an expense that you're happy with.

Totally agree--especially on marked-up jewelry--but I don't agree re: the following:

- Haircut: I'm getting a cut and color next week (first time in 6 months) because I have a job interview coming up. Haircuts can be investments if they help you get a job. Not that hair can get you a job, but looking disheveled can cause you not to get a job, especially when what you're interviewing for is a professional position.

- Clothes/bag: if your work is such that you sometimes need to look professional, you do need a bare minimum of professional outfits (say, three outfits that you can mix and match, plus associated shoes/hose/whatever) and a decent-looking handbag.

Along the same lines, some dinners out with friends can be investments of sorts; if they're bringing along friends whom it would behoove you to know in your line of work, for example.

Miss Piggy

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2016, 11:55:12 AM »
On a car forum I am part of, we got into a light argument about "how long will it take your car to pay for itself?" 

I said my car could start paying for itself as soon as it got a job. Until then, it's an expense.

Rezdent

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #31 on: May 12, 2016, 11:58:42 AM »
Rant: why, why WHY can women-focused blogs not use the word 'INVESTMENT' correctly?

Investment: placing time/money somewhere in hopes/expectation of a financial return.

It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)
- A handbag
- A haircut
- A blazer/dress/pair of pants/piece of clothing
- A piece of jewelry (which is sold at such a severe mark-up that you'd never sell it for CLOSE to what you paid. Ask people trying to offload old engagement rings.)
- A dinner out with friends, etc

There's this thing about using 'investment' as a word to mean 'I spent money on this thing and I like it and it makes me feel good', and NO.

Your handbag is a great addition to your wardrobe. It is useful. It looks great. You're super happy you bought it. You're getting tons of use out of it and the cost-per-wear is super low. That's GREAT. I'm right there with you. BUT IT ISN'T AN INVESTMENT. It's an expense that you're happy with.

Totally agree--especially on marked-up jewelry--but I don't agree re: the following:

- Haircut: I'm getting a cut and color next week (first time in 6 months) because I have a job interview coming up. Haircuts can be investments if they help you get a job. Not that hair can get you a job, but looking disheveled can cause you not to get a job, especially when what you're interviewing for is a professional position.

- Clothes/bag: if your work is such that you sometimes need to look professional, you do need a bare minimum of professional outfits (say, three outfits that you can mix and match, plus associated shoes/hose/whatever) and a decent-looking handbag.

Along the same lines, some dinners out with friends can be investments of sorts; if they're bringing along friends whom it would behoove you to know in your line of work, for example.
At the rate folks are expanding what they consider an "investment" (even here)  soon we will use that word to describe the act of getting out of bed tomorrow.  Because, see, we get out of bed to get jobs, or education, or exercise; certainly an investment in our future.

Clothes, purses, and haircuts are an expense.  If you are upping the quality of these in order to get a job, then they are expenses related to getting a better job.  That's absolutely okay - just not investments.  Maybe we need a new word for these things - I tend to think of them as "bait".

JLee

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #32 on: May 12, 2016, 12:02:57 PM »
I see this in car-for-sale ads all the time.

Example ("Over $42k invested - $25900"). Just...stahp.

MgoSam

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #33 on: May 12, 2016, 12:15:38 PM »
They keep using that word, I don't think it means what they think it means...

Tyson

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2016, 12:21:45 PM »
Fake breasts are quite the investment for some women.

I once knew a stripper who was saving for implants. She said most of her coworkers made back the cost of theirs within two months...

Well, a friend of mine spent 600$ on a custom leather corset. Which sounds RIDICULOUS, until you realize that she was making 200$/hour and it was 'work clothes'.

I mean, in that sense, work clothes can be KIND OF an investment. But they have to be linked to a return that you wouldn't otherwise get.

A leather corset is work clothing for your friend?  Uhm, what kind of work does she do?

serpentstooth

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2016, 12:30:15 PM »
Rant: why, why WHY can women-focused blogs not use the word 'INVESTMENT' correctly?

Investment: placing time/money somewhere in hopes/expectation of a financial return.

It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)
- A handbag
- A haircut
- A blazer/dress/pair of pants/piece of clothing
- A piece of jewelry (which is sold at such a severe mark-up that you'd never sell it for CLOSE to what you paid. Ask people trying to offload old engagement rings.)
- A dinner out with friends, etc

There's this thing about using 'investment' as a word to mean 'I spent money on this thing and I like it and it makes me feel good', and NO.

Your handbag is a great addition to your wardrobe. It is useful. It looks great. You're super happy you bought it. You're getting tons of use out of it and the cost-per-wear is super low. That's GREAT. I'm right there with you. BUT IT ISN'T AN INVESTMENT. It's an expense that you're happy with.

Totally agree--especially on marked-up jewelry--but I don't agree re: the following:

- Haircut: I'm getting a cut and color next week (first time in 6 months) because I have a job interview coming up. Haircuts can be investments if they help you get a job. Not that hair can get you a job, but looking disheveled can cause you not to get a job, especially when what you're interviewing for is a professional position.

- Clothes/bag: if your work is such that you sometimes need to look professional, you do need a bare minimum of professional outfits (say, three outfits that you can mix and match, plus associated shoes/hose/whatever) and a decent-looking handbag.

Along the same lines, some dinners out with friends can be investments of sorts; if they're bringing along friends whom it would behoove you to know in your line of work, for example.
At the rate folks are expanding what they consider an "investment" (even here)  soon we will use that word to describe the act of getting out of bed tomorrow.  Because, see, we get out of bed to get jobs, or education, or exercise; certainly an investment in our future.

Clothes, purses, and haircuts are an expense.  If you are upping the quality of these in order to get a job, then they are expenses related to getting a better job.  That's absolutely okay - just not investments.  Maybe we need a new word for these things - I tend to think of them as "bait".

I think a pretty easy metric is "Can you deduct it on your tax return?" So, my husband's new instrument? Investment. My tin whistles? Expense. Pointe shoes for your professional dance company? Investment. Pointe shoes for your daughter's extracurricular ballet class? Expense. Van for your landscaping company? Investment. Van to haul your kids around? Expense. Etc.

Kitsune

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2016, 12:30:57 PM »
Fake breasts are quite the investment for some women.

I once knew a stripper who was saving for implants. She said most of her coworkers made back the cost of theirs within two months...

Well, a friend of mine spent 600$ on a custom leather corset. Which sounds RIDICULOUS, until you realize that she was making 200$/hour and it was 'work clothes'.

I mean, in that sense, work clothes can be KIND OF an investment. But they have to be linked to a return that you wouldn't otherwise get.

A leather corset is work clothing for your friend?  Uhm, what kind of work does she do?

She's a dominatrix. It is totally appropriate work clothing for her line of work. ;)

Kaspian

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2016, 12:57:58 PM »
Uuugh I SO AGREE with you! This drives me nuts.

Womens' magazines are so patronizing and full of complete nonsense (I mean that literally - nonsense as in bad grammar and sentences that don't really mean anything. RAGE).

I hope there is an especially toasty place reserved in the fiery depths of hell for anyone who tries to 'explain' why a handbag is an investment, as such: 'it cost £xxxx so if I used it every day for the next 5 years it's such an investment because it only costs, like, x pence per day' That's not what 'investment' means you ffffing idiot.

Ah, that felt so good to rant about. Thanks.

Things that are marketed to female humans tend to be written in "baby talk". Either the advertisers or the target market is stupid. I have no desire to do business with stupid people, and I also don't care to be ripped off, so I try to avoid things that are marketed to women. In the process, I dodge most of what I've come to call "the c**t tax".

Oh, it's not just aimed at women--it's the sad infantilization of the entire society.  The lyrics of recent No. 1 singles average at a third grade reading level

runningthroughFIRE

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2016, 02:22:18 PM »
Rant: why, why WHY can women-focused blogs not use the word 'INVESTMENT' correctly?

Investment: placing time/money somewhere in hopes/expectation of a financial return.

It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)
- A handbag
- A haircut
- A blazer/dress/pair of pants/piece of clothing
- A piece of jewelry (which is sold at such a severe mark-up that you'd never sell it for CLOSE to what you paid. Ask people trying to offload old engagement rings.)
- A dinner out with friends, etc

There's this thing about using 'investment' as a word to mean 'I spent money on this thing and I like it and it makes me feel good', and NO.

Your handbag is a great addition to your wardrobe. It is useful. It looks great. You're super happy you bought it. You're getting tons of use out of it and the cost-per-wear is super low. That's GREAT. I'm right there with you. BUT IT ISN'T AN INVESTMENT. It's an expense that you're happy with.

Totally agree--especially on marked-up jewelry--but I don't agree re: the following:

- Haircut: I'm getting a cut and color next week (first time in 6 months) because I have a job interview coming up. Haircuts can be investments if they help you get a job. Not that hair can get you a job, but looking disheveled can cause you not to get a job, especially when what you're interviewing for is a professional position.

- Clothes/bag: if your work is such that you sometimes need to look professional, you do need a bare minimum of professional outfits (say, three outfits that you can mix and match, plus associated shoes/hose/whatever) and a decent-looking handbag.

Along the same lines, some dinners out with friends can be investments of sorts; if they're bringing along friends whom it would behoove you to know in your line of work, for example.
At the rate folks are expanding what they consider an "investment" (even here)  soon we will use that word to describe the act of getting out of bed tomorrow.  Because, see, we get out of bed to get jobs, or education, or exercise; certainly an investment in our future.

Clothes, purses, and haircuts are an expense.  If you are upping the quality of these in order to get a job, then they are expenses related to getting a better job.  That's absolutely okay - just not investments.  Maybe we need a new word for these things - I tend to think of them as "bait".

I think a pretty easy metric is "Can you deduct it on your tax return?" So, my husband's new instrument? Investment. My tin whistles? Expense. Pointe shoes for your professional dance company? Investment. Pointe shoes for your daughter's extracurricular ballet class? Expense. Van for your landscaping company? Investment. Van to haul your kids around? Expense. Etc.
That's an interesting way to think about it.  It even covers formal education and buying real estate quite nicely.  I tend to think that more things can be investments if purchased with the right intent, but let's not forget that investments involve risk, and don't always pay off.  I would say that anything done for the purpose of either earning or saving money in excess of the cost counts as an investment.  True life improvements like personal health also count.  Work clothes (to an extent) can lead to job offers and promotions, and they therefore count.  Buying a house to live in (theoretically) saves rent and decreases liquidity risk if you set up a HELOC for emergencies.  It's possible to pay too much for these things and make shitty investments, but they're still investments.

PencilThinStash

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2016, 02:31:37 PM »
Just look slightly confused, put on a slight Spanish accent, and say:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

MilesTeg

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 03:11:58 PM »
Rant: why, why WHY can women-focused blogs not use the word 'INVESTMENT' correctly?

Investment: placing time/money somewhere in hopes/expectation of a financial return.

It is NOT:
- A car (... barring a restored classic, maybe? I have no idea, I'm not a car person)
- A handbag
- A haircut
- A blazer/dress/pair of pants/piece of clothing
- A piece of jewelry (which is sold at such a severe mark-up that you'd never sell it for CLOSE to what you paid. Ask people trying to offload old engagement rings.)
- A dinner out with friends, etc

There's this thing about using 'investment' as a word to mean 'I spent money on this thing and I like it and it makes me feel good', and NO.

Your handbag is a great addition to your wardrobe. It is useful. It looks great. You're super happy you bought it. You're getting tons of use out of it and the cost-per-wear is super low. That's GREAT. I'm right there with you. BUT IT ISN'T AN INVESTMENT. It's an expense that you're happy with.

The thing about natural human language is that it's always subject to context and interpretation. Whenever I see someone railing about a work used in a way they don't approve of I just sorta chuckle. The only thing that matters is if what the speaker is saying makes sense in context.

You know the flat out best investment I ever made? It wasn't APPL or GOOG, it was the time investment put into finding and marrying my wife. Hands down, no competition. I didn't make money from marrying my wife, but you still understand the context of the word I am using.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 07:30:40 PM by MilesTeg »

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 04:52:43 PM »
Just look slightly confused, put on a slight Spanish accent, and say:

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

Inconceivable!

JAYSLOL

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #42 on: May 13, 2016, 07:11:39 AM »
I think we should come up with a better word than "investment" for this kind of thing if we want to change what people are saying.  It's more like an expensive toll in a road you and others have convinced yourself that you have to go down.

Us2bCool

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #43 on: May 13, 2016, 08:22:09 AM »
For items that are expensive but high quality, we say it can be amortized. So while not an investment, the price per use is much lower.

Digital Dogma

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2016, 10:34:10 AM »
I hear a lot of advertising and marketing that uses "investment" as short hand for "spending a lot of money will make you happy which is priceless."

Tyson

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #45 on: May 18, 2016, 11:35:12 AM »
Although, sometimes an 'investment' simply means buying higher quality stuff in the first place and keeping it much longer vs getting disposable crap.  For example, shoes.  I used to chew through Ecco and Bjorn shoes on a regular basis.  Then I found Allen Edmonds and they could be recrafted when you wore the sole down, and the top leather was much higher quality and lasted way, way longer than the "leather" used on other shoes. 

In the old days, I'd go through a Bjorn or Ecco in 9 months to a year.  That's $130 a pop.  With Allen Edmonds, I bought them on sale for $250, twice as much.  But I've had the 3 years an not even needed a single re-sole.  And the upper leather still looks brand new.  Based on how things are going, they'll last another 2 years before needing to be resoled (5 years total), and that is a $75 service.  Doing the math.... That's $250 for the initial outlay, plus $75 at year 5, which will last another 5 years.  So 10 years for $325 total.  Compare that to $130 per year, every year, for my previous shoes.  That would be $1300 over 10 years. 

Of course this isn't an investment, but it's more in the philosophy of "buy it for life".  More expensive up front, but less costly over the long term. 

seathink

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #46 on: May 18, 2016, 11:43:26 AM »
I think it's being used as an 'investment in your future' type of sense. I might be in this mindset because I just started working and have been 'investing' in a work wardrobe. There's a lot of 'dress for the job you want' advice in these magazines and even in college too, although how applicable the vogue magazine advice is to most readers is probably variable by how close they are to a visible position and the fashion industry.

I do think some clothing things are a bit of an investment, even if it's hard to quantify. I think everyone would agree that showing up to an interview well dressed is helpful to getting a job. At my work, I do receive comments on my appearance and professional dress, especially since my job is listed as a visible position. Women who work in sales have described to me how there's pressure from their boss to dress a certain way to keep/advance their job and also pressure from customers in how much they're trusted or approached.

Would thinking of it this way count more as a investment?
I spent $x on this dress to an interview. It helped me get a job that paid $y and likely raised my offer by z%. I wore the dress a times, for x/a cost per wear. So I can wear this dress to several more interviews at other companies, continuing to improve offers by z%. this dress also has a resale value of q.

But this sort of logic only applies to work clothes. I'm always amazed by how little most women's magazines talk about work clothes or work in general, considering most women work. Like don't cosmopolitan women work? i don't get that...


This right here is totally a thing, but you can be creative and mustachian about it. I have a friend who has one gifted close-enough-to-high-end-designer-purse that passes muster in the bosses's eyes that she only uses for interviews here in Beverly Hills/BH adjacent. We also do tons of clothing exchanges, and thrift can also round it out.

Chris22

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #47 on: May 18, 2016, 12:28:46 PM »
Although, sometimes an 'investment' simply means buying higher quality stuff in the first place and keeping it much longer vs getting disposable crap.  For example, shoes.  I used to chew through Ecco and Bjorn shoes on a regular basis.  Then I found Allen Edmonds and they could be recrafted when you wore the sole down, and the top leather was much higher quality and lasted way, way longer than the "leather" used on other shoes. 

In the old days, I'd go through a Bjorn or Ecco in 9 months to a year.  That's $130 a pop.  With Allen Edmonds, I bought them on sale for $250, twice as much.  But I've had the 3 years an not even needed a single re-sole.  And the upper leather still looks brand new.  Based on how things are going, they'll last another 2 years before needing to be resoled (5 years total), and that is a $75 service.  Doing the math.... That's $250 for the initial outlay, plus $75 at year 5, which will last another 5 years.  So 10 years for $325 total.  Compare that to $130 per year, every year, for my previous shoes.  That would be $1300 over 10 years. 

Of course this isn't an investment, but it's more in the philosophy of "buy it for life".  More expensive up front, but less costly over the long term.

Allen Edmonds shoes are exactly what I was referring to above.  And they are fantastic, and yes, I view them as an "investment" given that I need to wear dress shoes to work and these are high-quality and long-lasting.  I have a brown pair and a black pair and figure each should give +/- a decade of service.

ambimammular

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #48 on: May 20, 2016, 07:04:40 PM »
Allen Edmond's is great for DH, but what about me? Any high quality, decade lasting women's shoes?

(And thanks for the heads up. He wears through dress shoes at an alarming rate.)

MgoSam

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Re: This is not an 'investment'. Stop using that word.
« Reply #49 on: May 20, 2016, 10:10:09 PM »
I am looking to get a good Oxford, how much should I be looking to spend on a pair of Allen Edmonds? I know little of shoes and my nature is to buy something comfortable at a low cost. I have a pair of Rockports that I wear after buying 3 years ago and I wear them to work and am on my feet all day (standing desk), so I am starting to appreciate having quality.