The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: CommonCents on June 07, 2014, 08:04:24 AM
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Have you been sucked into the rising vortex of spending on bachelor(ette) parties?
http://ind.gmnews.com/news/2014-05-08/Front_Page/Spending_travel_top_bachelor_party_plans.html
My husband went out for drinks last night with the buddy that asked him to be best man via email a few weeks. The same buddy that said duties would include just making a toast, that he didn't want anything like a bachelor party. He's a second time groom, which probably influenced that decision.
Welp.
That was wrong. Apparently last night, he asked my husband for a party. And not just any. I had told my husband to make sure he really didn't want one, and to offer dinner out of town with him just in case. You know, what use to be a normal way to celebrate, before the rise of a bachelor party. DH didn't have a chance to offer, before friend asked for one - suggesting Denver, Vegas or Cabos. Sounds like his first time bride (always a spender) is having a big one, which is probably influencing him.
This is the fourth destination bachelor party in two years.
Party 1: Napa in CA
Party 2: Red Sox games in Texas (quite expensive tickets)
Party 3: Walla walla, WA (more expensive wine tasting by the same Napa crowd)
Party 4: Denver, Vegas, Cabos?....
All involved multiple days off from work, using limited vacation days, hotel rooms or house rentals, expensive plane flights starting at $500, numerous meals out, drinks, etc. I calculated the cheapest was $1500.
Meanwhile, in two years, we have taken exactly one (1) vacation that was non-wedding related, and that was for our two year delayed honeymoon, due to not wanting to spend oodles of money and being mindful of limited vacation days. We've talked about vacation plans, and more days off separate will throw off those plans.
DH doesn't see at all why I'm upset. A normally frugal person, he turns on the "bride brain" (a well document phenomenon) that says, "It's a once in a lifetime event and my buddy really wants it" and won't push back on the excess.
After the third party was planned (upcoming next weekend) he told me I was probably entitled to a vacation with my friends, which isn't what I want. I want to stem the tide of bachelor party spending, not increase it. I also want to vacation WITH my husband rather than separately.
I won't, but I equally want to:
1. Throw up my hands, and reach out to my two gal pals in England and see if one of them wants to blow all of her vacation days and money on a trip to a European country.
2. Make a big stinking fuss and tell DH he has to tell the straw (the latest groom) to be more reasonable and he just won't go.
3. Email the groom myself and ask him to be reasonable.
So - how do you cope with bachelor party spending, particularly if your partner won't say no?
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Thankfully we have poor/cheap friends and have never been asked to go away for a bachelor party.
(Farthest was a train ride into the city).
This does come up with wedding gifts. My husband adamantly believes you should give a gift based on the cost of the wedding. I adamantly believe you should give a gift you a re comfortable giving, based on the relationship with the person.
That means the coworkers with the super speedy weddings get smaller gifts than the lifetime best friend who eloped.
Our out with expensive trips has always been my husbands inability to get time off from work(especially on weekends). Sometimes a shitty job pays off.
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ugh - this would drive me crackers.
Thankfully, my husband's circle of friends never dreamt of anything more than a night out horsing around - usually with the groom dressed in a dumb outfit. I don't think I could have ever handled him spending that kind of money to for a bachelor party. OUCH!
My nephew held a destination wedding in Punta Cana last year and I felt really guilted into going. About 6 months before when he finally chose the resort and we could price things out, reality bit and we declined to attend. I still feel a little guilty as several months later we jetted off to Europe to meet my brother's new baby. Guess it's my fault - but I rather feel meeting my brother's new baby trumped attending my nephew's wedding. I attended the bridal shower and gave a generous monetary gift.
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I was asked to be best man a couple years ago. The groom was modest and didn't want a bachelor party but a mutual friend who was also a groomsman encouraged me that the BM's job was a bachelor party and toast.
I accepted this but knowing that none of us had that much money, I took care of everything financially (only 3 of us in the party!) and we went whitewater rafting for two days. It was made far cheaper by the fact that I was our guide as aside from my day-job, I'm also a whitewater rafting guide. I rented a buddy's boat, got a hotel room and we went. Brought a cooler on the river with sandwich makings and drinks and after rafting I think we got tacos. All in all it was a couple hundred bucks but <$500. Granted, getting to the river was a 2 hour drive for everyone and we didn't have to pay for a guide. But even still, these things can create phenomenal stories (that IS why people want these parties, isn't it?) and not have to cost too much.
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Wow this is a tough one... Especially since it is this persons second wedding. I would have to agree with your DH that the memories and bonding that takes place at bachelor parties is a "once in a lifetime" experience for the person getting married (twice in this case) and you want to make it truly special for them. That being said I want to have one, although I don't need to fly somewhere and spend like a drunken sailor to do it.
At the end of the day it sounds like you want your husband to
1) Keep the budget in check on these in the future
2) Enjoy vacation time with eachother
Based on what you said
I won't, but I equally want to:
1. Throw up my hands, and reach out to my two gal pals in England and see if one of them wants to blow all of her vacation days and money on a trip to a European country.
2. Make a big stinking fuss and tell DH he has to tell the straw (the latest groom) to be more reasonable and he just won't go.
3. Email the groom myself and ask him to be reasonable.
None of these accomplish that, kudos for you saying you won't. I think you have to bite the bullet in this case because he is the best man and with that comes an obligation to make the bachelor party everything the groom hopes for and more. I would make it very clear from then on out that you come first and he is doing something with you before the next one comes up.
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This is all because of The Hangover.
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My friend's husband has "bride brain" too. He flatly refuses to take a vacation alone with her on the grounds that they can't afford it but whenever one of his fancypants friends has a destination wedding they can suddenly afford to go and participate in all activities.
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I was at a destination stag a month ago. Not only did I get my trip paid for with the $300 in cash I received winning a drinking bet from some guy at the pub we were visiting the bet also included him kicking up the tab for 8 of us!!! Lol probably cost that guy $1000!! I was not happy about having to go to this party and spend a bunch of money, but I ended up being ahead of the game lol...the week to recover was another matter :-(
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I was at a destination stag a month ago. Not only did I get my trip paid for with the $300 in cash I received winning a drinking bet from some guy at the pub we were visiting the bet also included him kicking up the tab for 8 of us!!! Lol probably cost that guy $1000!! I was not happy about having to go to this party and spend a bunch of money, but I ended up being ahead of the game lol...the week to recover was another matter :-(
That is an awesome story for your life but a rare story for a bachelor party! You'll be telling that one for years.
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Yikes OP. I could say that this is a function of your age where all of your compatriots are getting married, and in some way it is, but in the end you are right, Bride Brain and a new sense of entitlement for that Special Day is now the norm. Even if, as evidenced by your friend, there are often several Special Days in the life of one guy or girl. Heck why NOT get married several times, think of all of the Special Parties everyone can throw for you!
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I hate the wedding spending more than anyone. It's completely spiraled out of control and has basically become the rite of passage for most new couples on their path to a lifetime of money problems.
But I also think that trying to fight it begins toeing the line between frugal and cheap. If you are so concerned about money that you are willing to risk alienating your best friends in life because you'd rather not spend it, you might be dangerously close to the cheap side.
From MMM's brilliant article on Frugal vs. Cheap:
When you’re on a first date or out with friends, it may be perfectly appropriate to pick up the tab, spontaneously buy pitchers of beer, and otherwise burn off a week’s worth of grocery money in four hours. And do it without worrying a bit, because you know you can afford it in the long run. If you do it right, you’re buying experiences you’ll remember for a lifetime and building friendships of similar longevity.
Perhaps the reason your husband hasn't pushed back on these excessive parties is because he genuinely enjoys the experiences and memories they build with some of his most cherished friends?
Is it excessive? Yes. Does it suck to get dragged down with the big spenders? Yes. But IMO this is just one of those things not worth fighting over when you know you can afford it. Friends and family... that's really all we've got in the world. Starting a fight over this would tell me you value money more than those two.
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One solution, assuming you have joint finances is to start paying yourselves a weekly/monthly allowance. This is your personal fun money, in which the other party has no right to comment on how it is spent.
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What happened to keeping it simple? A few grams of blow, a bottle of tequila, and the local strip club?
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What happened to keeping it simple? A few grams of blow, a bottle of tequila, and the local strip club?
Have you suggested to him that he could organise an EVEN MORE AWESOME party if he did it locally instead? I have NO experience in this area, but surely he could get the same feel by going to similar places where you live or within driving distance rather than a plane flight away? (Personally I'd be a cigars and whisky person if I could stand smoke, maybe a "gentleman's club" type thing that they'd never normally set foot in?)
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This is all because of The Hangover.
A friend of ours is flying to Thailand for his bachelor/bucks weekend. Hes a bit crazy and unpredictable so can see a Hangover style trip happening.
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I hate the wedding spending more than anyone. It's completely spiraled out of control and has basically become the rite of passage for most new couples on their path to a lifetime of money problems.
But I also think that trying to fight it begins toeing the line between frugal and cheap. If you are so concerned about money that you are willing to risk alienating your best friends in life because you'd rather not spend it, you might be dangerously close to the cheap side.
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I do understand you POV. But--
I disagree. The OP shows that this is a pattern of excessive spending on vacations that aren't even of her choosing, leaving this couple with no vacation money. While it may be anticipated as a one-time blow out for her SO's besty that will build memories forever, I don't think that's a realistic way to look at it. It's party #X among all of his friends and it's even this groom's 2nd time around for god's sake.
I am stunned that young men are now in the mindset of "I demand that you throw me awesome nuptial party(ies)" that we as society have enabled brides to do for decades now. What a sad societal trend.
But everyone with sense can stop the madness. There comes a point in our maturation where we don't allow others to control our pocketbook. MM's brilliant statement about buying a round of beer--Yes! It's a round of beer, not airfare and hotels and high end meals plus alcohol and entertainment fees. But just as brilliant was a statement on these forums (I would credit the poster if I remembered who it was!) and it is this paraphrased:
The sooner you let go of the expectations of others, the sooner you can start building that 'stache at a high rate and retire
All things in moderation. Simple entertainment shared with friends, priceless! Having someone else dictate my vacation? Not on your life.
But finally, I will say that the real problem here is that the OP and her SO don't share values about this particular financial life challenge. Here's to hoping that her SO will "get it" soon since he's reasonable about other financial things. And finally, it's really great when one can find friends who share financial values. Most of the U.S. is not like us (and I am still finding that out) and when one can socialize with people who share values, it's a nice thing.
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I hate the wedding spending more than anyone. It's completely spiraled out of control and has basically become the rite of passage for most new couples on their path to a lifetime of money problems.
But I also think that trying to fight it begins toeing the line between frugal and cheap. If you are so concerned about money that you are willing to risk alienating your best friends in life because you'd rather not spend it, you might be dangerously close to the cheap side.
From MMM's brilliant article on Frugal vs. Cheap:
When you’re on a first date or out with friends, it may be perfectly appropriate to pick up the tab, spontaneously buy pitchers of beer, and otherwise burn off a week’s worth of grocery money in four hours. And do it without worrying a bit, because you know you can afford it in the long run. If you do it right, you’re buying experiences you’ll remember for a lifetime and building friendships of similar longevity.
Perhaps the reason your husband hasn't pushed back on these excessive parties is because he genuinely enjoys the experiences and memories they build with some of his most cherished friends?
Is it excessive? Yes. Does it suck to get dragged down with the big spenders? Yes. But IMO this is just one of those things not worth fighting over when you know you can afford it. Friends and family... that's really all we've got in the world. Starting a fight over this would tell me you value money more than those two.
See, I disagree with this, and not only for what iris lily said. I also disagree, because you know what - I'm important too. And he's not making ME a priority, when he spends the vacation money and days on a 4:1 ratio on his friends as compared to me. It's a priority to spend money/time on them for their Special Day, without creating a similar priority for us, and for the fun experiences/memories we might create. It's pretty selfish and short-sighted for marital happiness, to not invest in your marriage. Instead, our vacation money, and his vacation days, goes to fund never ending bachelor parties.
He does enjoy the experiences/memories, but that doesn't mean he can't have same quality memories from less expensive trips. (I often think those are the best anyways. One of my favorite vacations during college was a week long canoe trip.) Some of them are his college buddies whom he's hung out with when they were all poor. Now, some have hit big (Walla Walla guy is a VP trading stocks with a major well known company. His home is a 3-bed apartment in a nice location in Manhattan with the top rooftop deck all to himself, paid about $3 million in cash. A well known TV celebrity used to live on the 2nd floor.) So for them, spending is no problem.
Your characterization of frugal v. cheap is particularly bothersome on this forum, in part because it seems to suggest you MUST pay lots of money in order to have a good time. And MMM's pitcher of beer in no way compares to these trips - I am sure he'd be appalled. (And I'll note, I did already suggest an expensive, lavish "round of beer" already by suggesting taking him out to dinner and a night out. That level of spending, $200-300, I'm ok with.)
To me, on this subject:
Cheap: No bachelor party at all.
Halfway between cheap and frugal: Bring a six pack over to a friends house, order pizza, and hang out.
Frugal: Have a good time, but spend under $500. Go golfing, rent a boat, rent a cabin and bring a keg, stay at the $3 million NY pad for free, etc.
I think a friend is not a good friend if they are alienated by you saying "whoa, hold up, that's really quite pricey and out of my budget. How about X instead?" They risk alienating me by making choices about how to spend our money for us (and don't forget it is tradition for the groomsmen to pick up the groom's tab) and by selecting crazy expensive options.
I think you have to bite the bullet in this case because he is the best man and with that comes an obligation to make the bachelor party everything the groom hopes for and more. I would make it very clear from then on out that you come first and he is doing something with you before the next one comes up.
Does it change your opinion that, as mentioned above, when asked it was specifically with the caveat that it would NOT include a bachelor party of any kind (which now has morphed into an expensive one)? I guess I feel that agreeing to be part of a wedding party incurs certain obligations (e.g. you buy or rent the outfit they ask of you) but there's also a limit to it (e.g. you expect to pay say, $150 for the dress but put your foot down at buying the $650+ one a la Bridesmaid's movie, or you expect a few hundred for a party not a few thousand). Here, he didn't even have an expectation of any party outlay, because it was off the table from the get go.
Yikes OP. I could say that this is a function of your age where all of your compatriots are getting married, and in some way it is, but in the end you are right, Bride Brain and a new sense of entitlement for that Special Day is now the norm. Even if, as evidenced by your friend, there are often several Special Days in the life of one guy or girl. Heck why NOT get married several times, think of all of the Special Parties everyone can throw for you!
Well, at (almost) 35/38, you'd think we'd be out of the wedding season of life! DH told me last year that it was the last bachelor parties, because all of his friends were married - but then two more of his friends turned up this year! I doubt we'll ever be "done" with wedding because we're starting in on the wave of divorces now. 3 weddings last year, 3 this year.
Absolutely, it's now multiple Special Parties for Special Days - there's a shower for this couple too. (I suspect because the bride is first time, but I know of people who have gotten married second/third time for both and still had a shower.)
But finally, I will say that the real problem here is that the OP and her SO don't share values about this particular financial life challenge. Here's to hoping that her SO will "get it" soon since he's reasonable about other financial things. And finally, it's really great when one can find friends who share financial values. Most of the U.S. is not like us (and I am still finding that out) and when one can socialize with people who share values, it's a nice thing.
Oh 100% this is the issue. DH won't push back on this. He's frugal in many ways, but not on dinning (wants to eat out often, and doesn't like to bring lunches to work at all), which I combat by reluctantly doing 90% of the cooking. This unfortunately, there's no real way for me to combat.
Anyways, I basically think my best option is to brainstorm a lot of creative fun bachelor party ideas that do not involve expensive plane flights, multiple days at a hotel/house rental, or multiple vacation days, and try to see if any of them are cool enough to attract the grooms attention instead. Besides, who really WANTS to go to Vegas in August when it's bloody hot outside? So, frugal bachelor party ideas? I'll even take modest to middling levels. Anything below $1000 really...
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I have a friend who is a very highly paid employee of a major sports franchise in addition to his private practice. His BP -- second marriage -- called for a $300 golf outing, a $250 dinner, $150 hotel room, and drinks and such after dinner. Normally, I would have skipped any such shenanigans, but this friend is incredibly generous to his friends.
Less than a week after the party, the wedding was called off. The wedding was planned for a Carribean island destination. Many had made non-refundable deposits, including my friend the prospective groom himself. I was told he had to eat $190,000 . . . Fortunately, I had no plans to go to the wedding.
Fast forward about 7 months later, the couple eloped (just a couple weeks ago).
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Yikes! Four in two years is a lot! If it makes you feel any better, the wedding brigade tapers off at some point and this stuff becomes more sporadic.
My husband has been to two of these parties in Vegas, and while they were fun, if he was having to go to multiple trips a year, and it was taking away from your vacationing together, I'd probably be frustrated too. I think, in his case the parties were 2-3 years apart so it wasn't a huge deal. I have never been invited to a travel bachelorette party.
I do think these expensive party weekends are over the top, but that is because I had no bachelorette party, my husband had no bachelor party, and our wedding cost, maybe, $1500 total.
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I find this whole thing disgusting, I hate this new wave of everything must cost too much, it's my special day.
I can't even sympathize, we got married before it started getting out of hand.
But the year before we got married, I was in a friends wedding, a few states away, so a plane ticket, a dress, a bachelor party, sharing of the hotel suites, they never asked me if I could afford any of it, I was barely above water at the time because I had a job that paid so little.
The next year when I got married, I didn't even want a bachelor party, It's just not my personality at all.
The whole wedding scene lately is just sort of stomach turning.
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Less than a week after the party, the wedding was called off. The wedding was planned for a Carribean island destination. Many had made non-refundable deposits, including my friend the prospective groom himself. I was told he had to eat $190,000 . . . Fortunately, I had no plans to go to the wedding.
Wow! I hope the guests could still fly out and enjoy themselves (alone). One of the upcoming weddings is actually at an island destination (although, I can't complain overly much - the couple is paying for the accommodations for guests). In contrast, the third wedding (my friend) is getting married at a public park.
Yikes! Four in two years is a lot! If it makes you feel any better, the wedding brigade tapers off at some point and this stuff becomes more sporadic.
My husband has been to two of these parties in Vegas, and while they were fun, if he was having to go to multiple trips a year, and it was taking away from your vacationing together, I'd probably be frustrated too. I think, in his case the parties were 2-3 years apart so it wasn't a huge deal. I have never been invited to a travel bachelorette party.
I do think these expensive party weekends are over the top, but that is because I had no bachelorette party, my husband had no bachelor party, and our wedding cost, maybe, $1500 total.
I've only been invited to one travel bachelorette party - and technically, that was really through my husband too, as it was for his brother's wife. I thought hard about it, but in the end opted not to go - just couldn't stomach $2000 for the plane flight to Cabos (before the house rentals, food, entertainment etc.), which would have involved at the minimum 18 hours of travel each way - for a weekend. I get only 2 weeks vacation a year, and we were already using a week of it to attend his brother's wedding and another of his friend's last year. It was much cheaper/shorter travel for most of her other gals as they were all coming from California. My brother's sister didn't go either.
Yeah I hope it tapers off (even with these second weddings cropping up now)! I thought it would this year, but nope. DH thinks I'm insanely unreasonable about being upset about the costs/time. He points to a friend of ours that wanted to send her husband on the WA trip (he hadn't been invited initially because they weren't invited to wedding, but asked to join - he is a fraternity brother so it wasn't a problem) because he's having a hard time at work in comparison. Apparently I am a Bad Wife. (What he doesn't know, is the wife agreed with me that this trip was excessive, the costs to get out there are high because it's to a little airport. I don't think she realized it'd be so high of plane costs when they initially asked about whether my husband could find out if he could join. And importantly, this is the first bachelor party for that friend in the 2 years - he wasn't invited to the other 3, and moreover, he and his wife have been on 2-3 vacations every year. However, as my husband was already royally mad and not listening anymore, I gave up and didn't point this out.) It's just not worth it trying to get my husband see my point anymore, and at the minimum just agree it's excessive (not even trying to get him to try to rein the groom in and suggest more reasonable cost options anymore). Sending him on the trip with a fake smile doesn't even help at this point, because we're both pretty mad at each other now. Had to listen to him pissed off going off at me for 20 mins this morning while I bit my tongue. So at this point, it's become a lose/lose scenario no matter what, and I'm just venting here now.
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I agree that I don't understand the destination bachelor/ette parties. I mean they are an excuse to have a little party with just your friends, right? So why would you want to then burden them with high expenses? Then again, my friends are the kind of people who are plenty happy with a bottle of bourbon, board or card games, and somewhere (preferably free) to sleep.
Anyways, I basically think my best option is to brainstorm a lot of creative fun bachelor party ideas that do not involve expensive plane flights, multiple days at a hotel/house rental, or multiple vacation days, and try to see if any of them are cool enough to attract the grooms attention instead. Besides, who really WANTS to go to Vegas in August when it's bloody hot outside? So, frugal bachelor party ideas? I'll even take modest to middling levels. Anything below $1000 really...
Since Vegas was brought up, are there any casinos that are within driving distance? Not like you need to be in Vegas to get drunk and gamble. My wife and I did a combined bachelor/ette party at a casino not too far away. We got a suite which all of us piled into (maybe a dozen of us). Think it was ~$40/person for the room, then whatever each person spent for food and gambling. Free booze so money saved there. With a nice tip to the waitress (the best money you can spend in a casino btw) she was happy to continually bring us drinks. My wife and I both paid our way for the party, we already cost our wedding party enough between clothing (and plane tickets for some) for our wedding.
It was probably a little more exciting for us though than maybe for your husband and his friends since a vast majority of us had never been to a casino before.
Edit: saw your response so I guess this idea doesn't matter anymore.
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My friends and I do it up large for bachelor parties. In fact, we feel like we act like kings! But we've never gotten on a plane to travel for one. I can't imagine spending over a grand for a night or weekend.
We live a couple of hours from one of the greatest bachelor party cities in North America - Montreal - so we often visit there. For my own party three years ago, I told my friends to keep costs down because I valued inclusivity so they rented a giant cottage during the down-season at Mont Tremblant for a weekend. The cost was $150 per person for accommodations and all food for the whole weekend, bring your own booze. Not exactly mustachian, but not bad for living like kings for a weekend.
In the last 5 years, I've attended probably 7 bachelor parties. Not once did I use joint finances; I save up my own money. If that means no nights out for drinks, no concerts, etc. for a few months, then that's the price I pay.
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Edit: saw your response so I guess this idea doesn't matter anymore.
Yeah thanks for the thought, but unfortunately it is useless to brainstom now. :( He asked last night what I was doing, I said researching fun bachelor party experiences, such as whitewater rafting, or renting a schooner up in Maine, and that's when it blew up. Didn't even get a chance to suggest the gambling spot a 1.5 hr train from here, golfing, etc.
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One of the advantages of being a nerd and having primarily nerd friends- we've almost always found relatively creative and inexpensive things to do for our bachelor (and the occasional -ette...) parties.
Best one in memory was for a buddy who had always wanted to go skydiving. We were all going to be at a nerd convention for a weekend a month or do before their wedding, so those of us who live a long ways away would all be in one place. Best man found a skydiving place just outside the city and we all went there- most of us went skydiving and all pitched in to cover the groom, then headed to a paintball place and chased each other around with paintball guns for the rest of the day. Total cost was about $500 each for those of us who went skydiving, was about $150 for those who didn't skydive- but we all had a fantastic time and had lots of great stories and pictures from the experience.
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For Tremblant that sounds darn good! And it is beautiful there any season,you don't need snow!
My friends and I do it up large for bachelor parties. In fact, we feel like we act like kings! But we've never gotten on a plane to travel for one. I can't imagine spending over a grand for a night or weekend.
We live a couple of hours from one of the greatest bachelor party cities in North America - Montreal - so we often visit there. For my own party three years ago, I told my friends to keep costs down because I valued inclusivity so they rented a giant cottage during the down-season at Mont Tremblant for a weekend. The cost was $150 per person for accommodations and all food for the whole weekend, bring your own booze. Not exactly mustachian, but not bad for living like kings for a weekend.
In the last 5 years, I've attended probably 7 bachelor parties. Not once did I use joint finances; I save up my own money. If that means no nights out for drinks, no concerts, etc. for a few months, then that's the price I pay.
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ugh, I'm so sorry CommonCents. that sounds fucking maddening.
thank GOD I haven't had to deal with anything like this... so far I've actually only had 2 close friends get married (and I'm 26, not sure what's up with that, haha). unfortunately I had to miss one bachelorette party because my boyfriend and I had a preplanned trip that weekend we couldn't change. both were in the Twin Cities (my hometown) so for the one I went to I probably paid more than anyone else there (I think I was the only one who had to fly), but she's my oldest best friend, I could afford it, and it was (IMO) the perfect level of bachelorette party intensity... dinner and one night of party-busing around the Twin Cities to different bars, AND THERE WAS KARAOKE ON THE BUS!! then we all crashed at one girl's house (and I stayed with my parents the night before, so no hotel costs the whole weekend). totally fun and more novel than your average night going out, but still super affordable split amongst all of us. I literally don't understand why people would want to do more than that unless they're in some super spendy social circle like people in finance or big shot lawyers. I absolutely would rather splurge on a vacation for just me and my boyfriend!!!
also, for those talking about frugal vs. cheap/the level of spending MAY be worth it, for me what would piss me off the most is not the use of "our vacation funds," but the use of vacation DAYS. I know in our relationship those are extremely precious (I get plenty but my boyfriend gets very few), and even if we had to blow all our funds for the year on expensive bachelor(ette) shit like that, at least if he still had vacation days left we could probably still afford to do one of our typical cheap but super fun vacations (drive somewhere like DFW or Fayetteville, camp or stay in a cheap hotel, drink local beer, hike with our dog, the end). using up all the vacation days really sucks.
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Sorry that you are having to go through this. I can sympathize on this subject, but I had an easier time convincing DH that we/he should not spend that much on a weekend. I find these types of bachelor/bachelorette parties utterly ridiculous. I think it's silly that brides/grooms are expecting these parties and friends who cannot afford or do not want to spend that type of money may be viewed as "cheap" or as not being good friends.
My sister was recently invited to a couple that would run her $500-$1000. She can barely make her mortgage and now she is being pressured into going to one of these things. DH was also invited to one in the past year or so. It was to Cabo for a three day weekend. It would have cost us $1000 and not only that, it would have burdened me since we have kids. I had to work that weekend, so that means scrambling to find a babysitter (no family where we are) and me having to deal with the kids by myself. Could we have afforded it? Easily. However, the stress it would cause me would not have made me very happy. I was not ashamed to tell him that I was not happy about it. I feel that DH's first priority is to our family and not his friends, especially not when it involves $1000 for three days away from us. I did let him go to another BP a few weeks later in Palm Springs since it was only a 3 hour drive from us. I did feel bad about the first trip because he may have missed out time with his friends, but I still think that the need to have a party that costs that much is ridiculous.
Once again, so sorry you have to go through this. Although your DH may be adamant about this trip, I think it may be a good idea to let him know how it makes you feel on his list of priorities (in the most non confrontational way possible). Afterall, why is his relationship with his friends more important than your relationship with him? But, that's just my opinion.
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Yeah, my 20-something co-workers have been involved in these types of trips -- but it's NOT just the guys. The girls take a trip too! And I've heard of combined Jack-and-Jill trips.
I've just wondered to myself, "You make less money than I do. How can you afford to do this for 2-3 friends' weddings each year?" When I was 20-something I couldn't have afforded that. The obvious answers involve debt or lack of saving for the future.
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"Once in a lifetime" except it's not. Not only does he change his mind, but he does so in an insanely expensive way. Sucks that it then compounds and causes frustration and fights for you.
I got invited to a bachelorette weekend in Vegas for 2 friends of mine who threw a joint party. One of them was a really close friend of mine but I still didn't go especially since I was flying down for the wedding weekend anyway. On the other hand, my sister-in-law chose to do something local because she wanted to make sure the most people could attend. We had a blast and then she had an allergic reaction around 10pm that landed her in the emergency room. She was fine but disappointed. Then again, it was pretty memorable and she laughs at it now.
Hopefully you get to enjoy your separate vacation with your friends.
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Once again, so sorry you have to go through this. Although your DH may be adamant about this trip, I think it may be a good idea to let him know how it makes you feel on his list of priorities (in the most non confrontational way possible). Afterall, why is his relationship with his friends more important than your relationship with him? But, that's just my opinion.
I have. When he's in a receptive frame of mind, his "concession" is to tell me that I should plan a trip for us. He also said after the third one that I was "probably" entitled to take a trip of my own. (I think these are mutually exclusive suggestions though I've never followed up to ask.) Us taking a trip addresses some of the issues (that he spends more time/money on his friends than on me/us), but not all, or arguably really even most of the issues because it exacerbates others. It makes us spend even more than we otherwise, and drops our vacation balance perilously low/wipes it out (and we just found out this weekend that DH's SIL is expecting, so I'm anticipating we'll be trying to take some trips out to visit them).
And yes, people are so oblivious to the costs. BIL this weekend was saying they might get a vacation spot and we were joking about using it. Turns out an option is Cabos, and we said "oh never mind" and they simply didn't believe me when I said I had looked into flights for SIL's bachelorette and it would have been 18hrs with connections and about $2k. It's much cheaper to go from Cali, where they live, so they assume that's what it is everywhere!
He's off on trip #3 at the moment.
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I attended a bachelor party yesterday that was really fun and didn't come anywhere close to breaking the bank. All of us were local so no one had to travel more than an hour drive.
Days festivities included:
- 2 hours of paintball
- dinner at a brewpub next to Century Link field (Seahawks stadium)
- Heading across town to play pool at a bar in the Capitol hill neighborhood. Hit a few other bars in the neighborhood as well.
- Capped off the night with a street vendor hotdog.
We were out all day and called it quits around last call. Such a good time. I spent about $100 for the whole day, as a couple other folks generously kept picking up the tab on some of the pitchers we ordered. Had I bought a few pitchers or helped with some of the other items I probably still wouldn't have even broke $150.
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No freaking way would I put up with this crap!
The answer would be a flat "No"... Not what we agreed too etc etc.. end of story.
We are already FIRED and I still wouldn't do it.
Frank
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Ironically, the other wife he touted as happily sending her husband off to the party apparently had a really tough time at home alone 5 nights with her 2.5 yr old twins while working insanely long hours to finish up projects before switching jobs at the end of this week. So unhappy yesterday her husband was looking at taking a flight home that day, one day earlier and paying the crazy change flight fees/increased fares.
3 of the 10 out there have kids (missing Father's Day). Maybe as more of them have kids their priorities will shift and they'll decide spending time and money on their own family is more important. A gal can only hope.
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Man, I guess different strokes for different folks.
I've been to three bachelor parties including my own:
1. Went to Six Flags for the Day, then out to burgers, and finished up with some fine whisky.
2. Rented a little electric boat for two hours (~$60 total) with a cooler of beer, and then went to a brewery for dinner (this was mine, and I covered the boat rental myself)
3. Went Candlepin bowling (this was actually really fun, I'd never been before).
All less than $100 easy. I'm lucky so far in not having to spend big money!
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This is definitely bad, but I think the bachelor party was like the male version of a bridal shower. However, now that I've been in a ton of weddings, I think being the maid of honor is worse. Not only are there expectations of a huge over the top bridal shower, but there is also the bachelorette party (destination party preferred). TWO giant over the top parties are now expected for women. And you don't even want to see World War III when I say no to that.
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It's time to have a grownup talk with your spouse that may not be too comfortable to have, but needs to be done. You basically need to explain where you are coming from just like you did on this thread.
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Ironically, the other wife he touted as happily sending her husband off to the party apparently had a really tough time at home alone 5 nights with her 2.5 yr old twins while working insanely long hours to finish up projects before switching jobs at the end of this week. So unhappy yesterday her husband was looking at taking a flight home that day, one day earlier and paying the crazy change flight fees/increased fares.
3 of the 10 out there have kids (missing Father's Day). Maybe as more of them have kids their priorities will shift and they'll decide spending time and money on their own family is more important. A gal can only hope.
I am sorry, but this doesn't sound like adult behavior, the prioritization of non-essentials over real responsibilities. It sounds childish.
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I'd focus on your wins.
I was going to write something about how I appreciate my hubby after reading this (and I do), but he's got his own money issues. I just try to remind myself how much progress he's made. Certainly makes my life happier.
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Ironically, the other wife he touted as happily sending her husband off to the party apparently had a really tough time at home alone 5 nights with her 2.5 yr old twins while working insanely long hours to finish up projects before switching jobs at the end of this week. So unhappy yesterday her husband was looking at taking a flight home that day, one day earlier and paying the crazy change flight fees/increased fares.
3 of the 10 out there have kids (missing Father's Day). Maybe as more of them have kids their priorities will shift and they'll decide spending time and money on their own family is more important. A gal can only hope.
I am sorry, but this doesn't sound like adult behavior, the prioritization of non-essentials over real responsibilities. It sounds childish.
You're talking about a friend, I assume? It's a bit harsh criticism. At the time they planned the trip they had no idea she'd get the new job.
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I agree with this overall. I definitely would steer clear of the real expensive bachelor parties, and I'm glad I don't have anyone in my circle of friends that's really like that.
That being said, I don't have a problem with out-of-town/travel bachelor parties in general. These days, I feel like people are generally more mobile than they used to be (i.e. friends move elsewhere after college). So, moreso than in the past, people need to travel for bachelor parties. However, when I had mine, I tried to make it as easy as possible for my friends to get to. I was the one that moved away, and the majority of my friends lived near Chicago, so we had the party there. I think the travel can be unavoidable in a lot of cases, but some of the other costs are definitely out of control, I'll agree with that.
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I was totally shocked when I read this! Talk about things getting out of control. I agree 100% with Iris Lilly! It sounds to me that hubby is still acting like a single guy instead of a married man because he is not putting his wife before his friends.
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This whole idea of expensive BP trips is fascinating to me. Every BP I've attended, including my own, followed the same formula: 1. go to a food/drink place, 2. Do "something" - I went to an entertainment complex that included go-karts and mini-bowling, 3. Strip club(s).
The last option is surely not for everyone, but in my circle, a BP means at least 1 strip club will be visited. Not Mustachian, sure, but a hell of a lot cheaper than traveling to expensive vacation destinations. There's only one more guy that needs to get hitched, so I'm sure this formula will be followed one last time.
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Jeez. The only bachelor party I've been secondarily involved in was my buddy's that he threw for his brother. I lent him some N64 controllers. Bunch of guys came over to his house, drank beer, and played Nintendo 64.
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I have a friend who attended a bachelor party where they did "Air Combat" missions. This costs $1,400 PER PERSON and was part of a 3-day weekend full of bachelor party events.
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Wow, who knew, the old school hookers and blow was way cheaper.
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Man, sadly I am one of those that thought of a trip to Vegas or Miami for a bachelor party was the norm. At least it was for many in my family growing up. That said, my siblings weddings were weeklong affairs (traditional Indian weddings have many many events prior to the actual wedding), with a ton of people and at fancy venues with open bars. The sad part is that the Indian community is so goosipy that no matter how elaborate a wedding was, the only thing people would talk about the next week was about any defects. "Oh the speeches were too long, or they did have enough appetizers, or not enough food dishes.
For the past two years I've gone to many weddings that were way more intimate and relaxed, and they were a lot more fun. There were several without any alcohol and guess what, they were just as fun! One of my friends just got married and for his bachelor party they went to his favorite restaurant and then back to a groomman's house for drinks. His wife had her friends over to give each other pedicures. That seems a lot more fun than having a shitshow (at least to me).
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A "Once in a lifetime" event means just that. Once.
Also, wouldn't it be lovely if we could all just drop life and jet off to Cabo or Paris on a private plane and drink Cristal from Antique crystal goblets while indulging in complete debauchery any old time we felt like it?
Perhaps, but the sad plain fact is that you either look rich or be rich.
Wedding celebrations should be special, but unfortunately, people run through spouses at an astonishing rate these days. So if you are in the process of being lured into spending a fortune for someone else's wedding or bachelor/bachelorette parties, decline. Offer instead to do something expensive and awesome with them for their 20th Wedding anniversary. You'll find you won't have to do that nearly as often.
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It's time to have a grownup talk with your spouse that may not be too comfortable to have, but needs to be done. You basically need to explain where you are coming from just like you did on this thread.
Agreed! CommonCents, your man may not understand your concerns. Talk with him and openly share like you've done with us here. I personally wish the women I dated were as reasonable and responsible and creative thinking as you.
That said as a guy I feel the bachelor party is becoming the one time the guy gets something he really wants from the engagement/wedding "show". Do most guys care about rings, the clothing, venue, colors or other aspects of the wedding? In my experience, not as much as the bride. So perhaps a part of the emotions behind the bachelor party excess is the possibility, that many men simply don't care for a lavish wedding? After all, since the bride is having a glorious party why shouldn't the groom?
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After all, since the bride is having a glorious party why shouldn't the groom?
Therein lies the rub. Weddings imo have become arm's races between brides, and now grooms are joining the fray.
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I think any kind of expensive outing or destination wedding/party is extremely presumptuous and self-centered. This bachelor party definitely qualifies as over the top. Unless the host is picking up the bill for all involved, it is such a rude thing to plan an expensive outing and expect others to attend -- and even worse for the self-centered person (groom) to expect someone else to host and pay for such an expensive party centered around them!
It reminds me of when I was a kid, and poor, and other kids (or even the school) would suggest and organize doing some expensive thing that my family just did not have the money to do. They were just clueless that not everyone could afford the weekend ski trip to Vale, or whatever. So, I missed out. Now that I have the money to do such things, I would never dream of suggesting a trip or activity that is going to exclude someone who cannot afford it, or who doesn't want to blow 10% of their annual income on a lark.
Too bad for CommonCents her husband is unwilling to beg off. I would have no problem telling my "great friend" that I'm sorry, I cannot host such an outing for them, they should find another person to serve as best man to throw this party for them.
CommonCents, as you know, you are not crazy for thinking this is all over the top, especially for the fourth trip in a year.
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A "Once in a lifetime" event means just that. Once.
Also, wouldn't it be lovely if we could all just drop life and jet off to Cabo or Paris on a private plane and drink Cristal from Antique crystal goblets while indulging in complete debauchery any old time we felt like it?
Perhaps, but the sad plain fact is that you either look rich or be rich.
Wedding celebrations should be special, but unfortunately, people run through spouses at an astonishing rate these days. So if you are in the process of being lured into spending a fortune for someone else's wedding or bachelor/bachelorette parties, decline. Offer instead to do something expensive and awesome with them for their 20th Wedding anniversary. You'll find you won't have to do that nearly as often.
oh so true
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I'd be pissed too, CommonCents. You're treating the man like his mother. Talking about permission to go.
You've both got reasons to be pissed at each other, none the least of which is that you're having trouble communicating. Just remember this: the more you seek to exert control, the more he's going to be resentful of it.
And before you say, "Well, he _is_ acting like a child" realize that that attitude is _exactly_ why you're here venting on an internet forum instead of having an adult conversation.
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OK, perhaps I'm gonna get punched, but I don't see the need for outrage here. It sounds to me like your hubby really values his friendships, and that part of the way he expresses it is by being a part of the big life events. Clearly these things are really important to him.
Now I agree that you have a legitimate beef here - you want to vacation with your hubby and his sudden plans are throwing that off. So by all means bring up your disappointment and reaffirm your need for couples-time. See how he responds to you, and how he plans to make it right.
He tried, anyway, by encouraging you to have friend-time too, but that isn't really what you want. But it shows he isn't entirely selfish. He is trying to be fair at least.
But I don't think that getting angry, or "putting your foot down" is a helpful response. He's not a child. He has needs and so do you. You won't always agree with one another. You cannot bend a partner to your will.
I hope he comes around to understanding how important it is that you two get some vacation time together. It sounds like he isn't hearing that message yet.
Take a breath, remember why you love him, and speak. :)
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I've been to 2 bachelor parties in South Beach and one in Riga - that was pricey.
Best thing I can say is you do seem to age out of this. But in my case not until I was almost 40.
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funny you should mention this. I JUST got invited to a B party in vegas...........
we all live in Australia!
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funny you should mention this. I JUST got invited to a B party in vegas...........
we all live in Australia!
Do it bro. Use your accent to have sexual relations with loose American women. Vegas is the place to do it. lol
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For those suggesting I share with him what I've shared here, as I did here, I did. I talked to him (hence why I've got lots of information on his points). At some point, unfortunately, after you've both listened to each other's perspectives fully, and still disagree though, it's not really "trouble communicating" or a lack of "an adult conversation." It's a disagreement over values/spending etc., not a lack of understanding, explanations or communications. (And there was no "permission required to go" either. Not sure where that came up by a poster. I was unhappy with his decisions and actions, but I did not say he couldn't go, and in fact explicitly said I wasn't going to do that although I admitted wanting to do so. I'm not perfect, I experience anger/envy/the other 7 deadly sins, etc. But heck, the whole world would be condemned if we went by inner thoughts/emotions rather than actually our actual actions and words.)
Update: We attended the (destination wedding) for the most recent bachelor party this weekend. A few things came out:
1. A number of the wives aren't happy about this spending and bachelor trips, to varying degrees.
One is incredibly unhappy in (her one year) marriage on a number of fronts, and finances is one of them. One significant difference is that they are apparently quite pressed financially and the husband's lopsided spending takes away not from savings (as in our case) but in the wife having any money to spend on things for herself. While we're getting a lopsided story that doesn't entirely add up, knowing this was sobering to my husband as he doesn't want his buddy to have these issues in his marriage, nor did he realize it was that bad.
I think knowing multiple wives feel this way (and it sounds like if things don't change with the one, it could end up in a divorce), may help the guys to moderate a bit more in the future, as before they believed it was "just their wife" but the others were "all cool" with it.
2. I recognize that maybe we really are at the end of these parties in this group
We looked around at the wedding and realized that at least in this particular college group, maybe everyone really is married off, almost all within the last five years (the guys are mid-30s). So there's less of a reason for the "bachelor party." Only a few have kids so far, but more want them, which will make trips harder. If I can genuinely believe this is the end of the "lifetime trips", and there aren't going to be yet more surprise trips next year or the following, then I can have a better grace about these. Part of the frustration is the feeling that each year the parties are a surprise and are anted up higher and higher each time.
3. The guys have agreed it might actually be fun to have a group trip with the wives too.
This is the first time the couples in this group really spent any length of time together, as we all spent a minimum of three nights at the resort for the wedding activities. (The guys are all in the same fraternity. I'm one of a few wives that attended the same college and knew most them back in the day, although not super close, and I didn't meet my husband until many years after graduation as we were different years.) So it helped to have everyone get to know each other better, have a good time, and realize, wow, it could be fun to do again. The wives also proposed that if they needed it, the guys could go off and do their own things during the day (as would we) and get together just in the evenings.
4. And separately, DH has said he actually doesn't want to do the upcoming bachelor trip (for an old coworker) in mid-August.
He's emailed out as Best Man, but is hoping the others can't make that particular weekend. He gets burnt out by travel, and between the parties, the weddings (had two this past week), and work travel, he has little juice left in the tank right now (which isn't much fun for me either). It helps me to know he's at least making an effort now to suggest other options to the groom rather than just going with the flow. It's not that I necessarily expected him to say "I won't go", I really just wanted him to just try to moderate the trip and propose fun activities that are more local and thus less costly for vacation and money.
Re the idea of this being an arms race, it's true in the case of this upcoming party. DH told me he thinks the groom mostly wants Vegas because he wants the bride to realize that he too could have strippers at his party, and that will influence her to moderate her behavior at her party. Seems a shitty reason for a party to me (and one ought to trust their partner), but what do I know?
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Thanks for the update. Sounds like better times are ahead for the group.
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CommonCents - you pointed me to this stream from another post.
Aside from the high cost ($500/day per person), I think the part I'd be more mad about (and perhaps you are) is that he takes these sorts of trips more often than trips with you.
There's no way I could get away with it even if I wanted to. Now that I am past the "wedding years", these take place perhaps every 2-3 years, but I'd probably spend $300-350/day tops (flight, housing, food and entertainment). Hopefully, yours will slow down. How often does he initiate the trips? A biggie is that, as you point out, the use of vacation days for guy trips cuts into how much he can use with you.
Another "event" that really slows these down is having kids. If he doesn't grow out of it, it is likely his friends will.
Good luck!
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Hi retired?, yes, the lack of trips for us due to a lack of vacation days and not wishing to spend a fortune on vacations is upsetting. (And the solution that I spend money on separate trips to make it equal isn't a "solution" in my mind. I married him because I want to spend time with him!)
Part of the issue of these trips is lifestyle inflation. They used to be happy crashing at one guy's house and catching up for a weekend (so cost = flight plus alcohol/food for the weekend, largely bought at store and grilled). Now, it's much fancier and plans take longer to get together so flights costs are up. Some have *really* good jobs (e.g. one is VP, doing trading at a major company) and are very well-off so they are much less price sensitive.
Kids...I'm sure you're right, with the caveat that 2 of the primary instigators may not (be able to) have kids, due to age and known fertility issues of the wives. One of the trips this year was over Father's day. 2 of the guys had kids and weren't too pleased the others didn't think about the timing. (And the one with small twins his wife had such a hard time at home while he was gone that he almost flew back early.)
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Settle on a budget. Get a pre-paid card from wal-mart for that amount. Keep the rest of the credit cards.
That way you don't have to fight about how much was spent and why. $500 is the limit (or 5000. whatever. ) and when it's gone it's gone.
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Settle on a budget. Get a pre-paid card from wal-mart for that amount. Keep the rest of the credit cards.
That way you don't have to fight about how much was spent and why. $500 is the limit (or 5000. whatever. ) and when it's gone it's gone.
Hi Spicy, this is a bit of a dead thread from a bunch of months back. In any event, the issue was in deciding on that budget bc we did not agree.
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What happened to keeping it simple? A few grams of blow, a bottle of tequila, and the local strip club?
yes
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I've never even heard about these types of bachelor party. Insane. I hate what weddings have become for so many. My husband would never go to one of these as he would think it was stupid too.
If my sister or my kid invited me to a destination wedding, I'd send a gift and wish them well, but I think it's the height of arrogance to think you get to dictate how everyone else should spend their vacation days and blow their budget.
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... but I think it's the height of arrogance to think you get to dictate how everyone else should spend their vacation days and blow their budget.
exactly my thought, I just cannot relate to people who seem to be happy that someone has chosen their vacation spot. And it's most ALWAYS in boring Carribean places.
Now honey, give me a niece's wedding in a Scottish castle and I am THERE. Or a nephew getting married in India--yep, I might go. India is my dream vacation.
Our friend was going to get married in Korea and I would quite possibly have attended that one since I love Asia, but she later broke off that engagement.
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my husband and I live a plane ride away from both of our parents, so we need to save travel $ and vacation days for holidays, trips for family events, etc... We go to a TON of weddings we need to fly to, so we have a "one flight per wedding" rule, and let friends know that up front. If i have to fly for the wedding i cannot fly for a shower, engagement party, bachelorette party, etc... I never want people to have a different party on my account, i just let them know I have a lot of weddings and I can't travel far plane for the other events. As long as you are consistent across the friends in one group I think it won't cause strife. Also, if you skip something send a gift, or if it's a bachelorette party have a friend who is going buy a round on you, etc.. something to let the bride or groom know you are thinking of them and wishing you could be there in person.
I did go to one destination bachelorette party in Vegas and the bride's mother paid for us to rent a huge house, it was awesome and we could eat and drink from the grocery store and not spend $75 per person on lunch and a few drinks every day at a hotel pool.
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... but I think it's the height of arrogance to think you get to dictate how everyone else should spend their vacation days and blow their budget.
exactly my thought, I just cannot relate to people who seem to be happy that someone has chosen their vacation spot. And it's most ALWAYS in boring Carribean places.
Now honey, give me a niece's wedding in a Scottish castle and I am THERE. Or a nephew getting married in India--yep, I might go. India is my dream vacation.
Our friend was going to get married in Korea and I would quite possibly have attended that one since I love Asia, but she later broke off that engagement.
Been there, done that. :) 2010 I attended my friend's wedding in India. (And in 2004 I visited the friend in India. She was from there, though mostly lived in the US/England since high school.) It was an incredible cultural experience. (We also enjoyed a week of travel after the wedding virtually free and largely stress free, thanks to the groom's father, who arranged for our transport and to stay in guest houses free of charge. In fact, our "handlers" as we took to calling them, often took us out for meals too and insisted on paying as well. One big perk of my friend marrying the son of the Managing Director of the State Bank of India...)
The other option for the Caribbean wedding would have been the bride's home in Brazil, but they nixed that idea sadly. That wedding though the couple ended up paying for a few nights hotel accommodations for every guests.
eae550, my friend living in London goes one step further. She now has a 2-wedding rule. She'll fly back from London to attend two weddings - if you tell her first (or second), she'll attend yours. I did send a very expensive shower present for my SIL-to-be last yeat, and send an expensive bottle of champagne for her wildly expensive bachelorette when I didn't attend those remote events. Normally I think its nice to do but shouldn't be expected to send on a gift if you can't attend.