Author Topic: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer  (Read 50926 times)

MoneyCat

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I stopped by the credit union the other day to make a deposit and in the course of idle chitchat I mentioned to the clerk that I am a schoolteacher.  She said she was surprised because I didn't have a personal loan.  I asked her to explain and she said that most of the teachers with memberships at the credit union take out personal loans to pay for their expenses like mortgage/rent, utilities, etc. for the Summer while they are furloughed for two months.

This just stunned me.  Now I know that many school districts don't offer teachers the option of a 12-month pay schedule instead of a 10-month schedule (which I wouldn't do anyway, because that's like giving the school district a free two month interest-free loan), but are people really so shortsighted that they can't save up some money during the year to cover expenses for the Summer?  Do they really have no savings at all?  Now all these teachers have to pay back their loans at 9.9% interest and probably continue the cycle for the next Summer.  It just boggles my mind.

B L I S S

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2014, 04:50:12 PM »
So you mean you didn't know these teachers must have stories of expansive, expensive vacations to share with their coworkers upon return?

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2014, 06:06:57 PM »
Well, come on now.  I'm a teacher, so I know the pay isn't great, but it isn't hard to save up money to cover expenses for the Summer if you brown bag your lunch everyday, ride your bicycle to work, shop at wholesale clubs and thrift shops instead of retail shopping, etc. 
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 06:10:37 PM by MoneyCat »

frugalecon

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2014, 06:21:32 PM »
My spouse teaches high school in a district that shifted from a 12-month calendar for pay to a 10-month calendar. No big deal for us, but it was pretty predictable that a bunch of folks ran into trouble in the second month without a paycheck. And many of these are two-income households. They simply have no precautionary savings. It is kind of funny, that in this forum people debate how much of a cash cushion to maintain, and how much to rely on long-term investments for unexpected expenses. In the rest of the world, many people have no cash cushions, nor can they do even basic planning to be able to cover EXPECTED expenses. Oy.

slugline

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2014, 07:19:56 PM »
Just imagine what would happen with some people if their employers tried paying them an entire year's salary upfront on a single paycheck at the start of the school/fiscal year. :)

clarkm04

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2014, 07:33:21 PM »
Every district I've work in requires pay over 12 months.

At my current smaller district I asked if I could do 10 months and she said no based on data from districts that do have 10 months and the issues you speak of.  Just crazy that educators can't budget for a two month gap.

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2014, 08:09:43 PM »
Just imagine what would happen with some people if their employers tried paying them an entire year's salary upfront on a single paycheck at the start of the school/fiscal year. :)

We get paid once a month by my school district during the year and I've heard that a lot of teachers have problems with that.  One time, the school district had to wait an extra week to give out paychecks and most of the teachers just about had a heart attack.  They were complaining about paying bills, etc.  I was fine.  Because I adopted the Mustachian lifestyle, I could actually go for years now without getting paid (not that I would want to).  Life is so much easier when you give yourself that cushion, but our society tells everyone that they are supposed to project an image that costs them every penny they have.  It's really sad.

Goldielocks

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2014, 08:33:30 PM »
Well, come on now.  I'm a teacher, so I know the pay isn't great, but it isn't hard to save up money to cover expenses for the Summer if you brown bag your lunch everyday, ride your bicycle to work, shop at wholesale clubs and thrift shops instead of retail shopping, etc.

Huh, the average teacher pay in my district is over $77k per year, and they just went on strike for more money (and other things once they get the money terms agreed to).

Even so, some teachers were crying to the press about how they were going into debt for our children because of the 7 days no pay.   And yes most teachers here are dual income.

amha

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2014, 08:36:37 PM »
Quote
We get paid once a month by my school district during the year and I've heard that a lot of teachers have problems with that.  One time, the school district had to wait an extra week to give out paychecks and most of the teachers just about had a heart attack.

Oh goodness, that happened to me, too. We were getting paid biweekly, but because of budget/fiscal issues at the state, the school didn't get its regular disbursement on time, and so paychecks were delayed by a couple days... which made, like, no difference to me, because, you know, I don't keep my checking account at zero. Yet a number of other teachers in my school---otherwise bright, intelligent, thoughtful people---were flipping out. It was odd.

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 08:49:11 PM »
Huh, the average teacher pay in my district is over $77k per year, and they just went on strike for more money (and other things once they get the money terms agreed to).

Even so, some teachers were crying to the press about how they were going into debt for our children because of the 7 days no pay.   And yes most teachers here are dual income.

You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable.  For example, I have had my salary cut every year for the past five years because our state decided to increase our share of payments into the broken pension system PLUS increase our share of payments for our health insurance.  We had no contract for two years before that, so wages were frozen and then our oh-so-powerful Labor Union was able to get us a whopping 1% pay increase with no retroactive pay, which of course is less than the rate of inflation.  (I am so glad I spent all that money on Union dues for that.)  Overall, my pay has decreased by about 20% since 2008.  And we won't get pensions either at the rate things are going, so I have been planning my retirement differently.

At least I get to work 60 hour work weeks during the school year for all this luxury.

I tell young people not to go into teaching unless they are already FI and just want something to do for a couple years before going to grad school.  As much as I enjoy teaching, the finances just don't make sense anymore.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2014, 08:57:18 PM by MoneyCat »

Goldielocks

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 09:15:05 PM »
Huh, the average teacher pay in my district is over $77k per year, and they just went on strike for more money (and other things once they get the money terms agreed to).

Even so, some teachers were crying to the press about how they were going into debt for our children because of the 7 days no pay.   And yes most teachers here are dual income.

You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable.  For example, I have had my salary cut every year for the past five years because our state decided to increase our share of payments into the broken pension system PLUS increase our share of payments for our health insurance.  We had no contract for two years before that, so wages were frozen and then our oh-so-powerful Labor Union was able to get us a whopping 1% pay increase with no retroactive pay, which of course is less than the rate of inflation.  (I am so glad I spent all that money on Union dues for that.)  Overall, my pay has decreased by about 20% since 2008.  And we won't get pensions either at the rate things are going, so I have been planning my retirement differently.

At least I get to work 60 hour work weeks during the school year for all this luxury.

I tell young people not to go into teaching unless they are already FI and just want something to do for a couple years before going to grad school.  As much as I enjoy teaching, the finances just don't make sense anymore.

Yeah, this is Canada..  And that is the avererage.  My main point is that people at $77k per year, or even the starting rate of $62k (I think) should be able to save funds to cover for a strike that has been planned for 18 months now.

It gets better, here is the rant:
The high school and junior high teachers work 60 hr weeks easy, but elementaries are lucky if the teachers work 40..  The have been on quasi strike action for several years and put in 7 hr a day, 5.5 to 6 at school, little from home because they refuse to give homework..only mark tests..."who do you expect to prepare it and mark it?" Said one teacher to me when I asked about extra work as a help for my son... The strike action means that they don't do after school extra activity, except for one or two teachers with volleyball, and refuse to do field trips or back to school parent nights.  Argh!  No report cards end of last year either.

It may not be so bad in other districts..others may be working the long hours..

The worst is that they aren't negotiating for better new teacher terms.  Teachers can retire and get full pension.  And then they can be on call as paid substitutes.   All good so far.  But, once they retire,_ they keep their seniority, so no new teachers trying to gain experience as on call sub's  have a chance of hours or work. And they quit.  Seniority should reset to zero once you are drawing a full pension.. Which are quite large here.

jamaicaspanish

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 09:48:51 PM »
I had an interesting conversation with a colleague in my former district.
Our district closed out the fiscal year on the last day of school.  So teachers received five summer checks at once (May 31, June 15 & 30, and July 15 & 30).
My wife and I had ours direct deposited.  So May 31 we looked rich.  And we made it through to August 15 with no problems.
However, I had a colleague who declined direct deposit.  She wanted to have paper checks in hand to deposit in person.
Here's the kicker:  she didn't trust herself not to spend money in her account.  So she hand delivered checks to the bank on the normal payroll dates.  And she kept the checks in her purse until deposit day. 
She was walking around with 10k in checks in her purse.  And going to the bank on May 31, June 15, etc. to deposit them "on time."  Because she couldn't trust herself not to spent it all at once.
Sigh.

nirvines88

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 09:50:40 PM »
Well, come on now.  I'm a teacher, so I know the pay isn't great, but it isn't hard to save up money to cover expenses for the Summer if you brown bag your lunch everyday, ride your bicycle to work, shop at wholesale clubs and thrift shops instead of retail shopping, etc.

Huh, the average teacher pay in my district is over $77k per year, and they just went on strike for more money (and other things once they get the money terms agreed to).

Even so, some teachers were crying to the press about how they were going into debt for our children because of the 7 days no pay.   And yes most teachers here are dual income.

Wow 77k!  I have my master's degree and make 38k on a 10 month pay scale (unfortunately despite being a 10 month employee I also put in 2-3 weeks of unpaid mandatory professional development during the summer).

I see many fellow teachers run into the same problem mentioned by the OP.  Most of these teachers use 0-low interest loans aka "cash accounts" at our state credit union to get by during the 2 months of summer when we're technically not employed.  As a single and relatively mustachian dude, it's no problem getting by for a couple months (or couple years) without a paycheck.  Teachers that make the same salary as me but have families may not have the same luxury of saving ahead of time as I do. With that being said, most teachers could definitely do a better job of planning for the 2 months without a paycheck and improving financial awareness in general, but I don't think teachers' financial acumen, or lack thereof, is that different from the general population. 

amha

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2014, 10:10:51 PM »
I had an interesting conversation with a colleague in my former district.
Our district closed out the fiscal year on the last day of school.  So teachers received five summer checks at once (May 31, June 15 & 30, and July 15 & 30).
My wife and I had ours direct deposited.  So May 31 we looked rich.  And we made it through to August 15 with no problems.
However, I had a colleague who declined direct deposit.  She wanted to have paper checks in hand to deposit in person.
Here's the kicker:  she didn't trust herself not to spend money in her account.  So she hand delivered checks to the bank on the normal payroll dates.  And she kept the checks in her purse until deposit day. 
She was walking around with 10k in checks in her purse.  And going to the bank on May 31, June 15, etc. to deposit them "on time."  Because she couldn't trust herself not to spent it all at once.
Sigh.

So, obviously that's not something that you or I would need to do---but if she realizes that she's so irresponsible that she'd just spend all the money if it were in her account, then not depositing her checks is a smart thing to do. I mean, it does SEEM a bit silly (as does carrying them around in her purse), but she's exercising some amount of control and self-restraint---she knows herself well enough not to trust herself. It's a small first step on the road to greater responsibility (and hopefully, Mustachianism!)

MrsPete

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2014, 08:54:33 AM »
This just stunned me.  Now I know that many school districts don't offer teachers the option of a 12-month pay schedule instead of a 10-month schedule (which I wouldn't do anyway, because that's like giving the school district a free two month interest-free loan), but are people really so shortsighted that they can't save up some money during the year to cover expenses for the Summer? 
Early disclaimer:  These things vary widely from place to place. 

When I started teaching, all teachers had a choice:  You're going to be paid X amount.  Do you want it divided into 10 paychecks or 12 paychecks?  It's kind of like saying, "Here's a large pizza.  Do you want it cut into 10 or 12 slices?" 

Then the legislature -- who simply cannot see a good idea that's working fine and leave it alone -- said that was unfair to teachers.  Said it was unfair to "hold their money" 'til summer, even if they'd chosen it.  So EVERYONE was forced to have 10 paychecks, even the people who can't hold onto a dollar and would've preferred equal payments. 

So our credit union -- an excellent institution -- stepped in to help.  They allow teachers to have a portion of each month's pay to be "siphoned off" into a special summer savings account.  That savings account cannot be accessed without some trouble /going into the credit union and doing some paperwork, so people aren't likely to spend it.  But it provides a "paycheck" in the summer months for the people who prefer to have those equal payments.  Some teachers say that they spend more during the summer months (vacations, lunch with friends, outings for the kids, whatever), so they choose to put MORE into the savings account so their "paycheck" goes up during the summer.  While I don't use this summer-savings program myself, LOTS of people do, especially two-teacher families. 

I have never heard of a teacher taking out a loan for the summer months.  That is not a financially stable move, and most teachers I know are fairly frugal people -- at least most of the time.   

Different but related topics:  The credit union also allows teachers to arrange their mortgages or car loans so that they pay more during the school year and make no payments during June and July.
May hits teachers hard; because we aren't paid in June and July, we have TRIPLE deductions removed from the May check -- so if you're paying $400/month for family insurance, you pay $1200 in the month of May.  I've always thought they ought to be a little smarter about that detail -- cutting the last check of the school year is kind of like setting people up for failure.  Thing is, people forget that and then are surprised when suddenly their May check is small. 
We get paid once a month by my school district during the year and I've heard that a lot of teachers have problems with that.  One time, the school district had to wait an extra week to give out paychecks and most of the teachers just about had a heart attack.  They were complaining about paying bills, etc.  I was fine.  Because I adopted the Mustachian lifestyle, I could actually go for years now without getting paid (not that I would want to).  Life is so much easier when you give yourself that cushion, but our society tells everyone that they are supposed to project an image that costs them every penny they have.  It's really sad.
We had a problem a few years ago: 

When I began teaching, we started school mid-August and finished mid-June.  We teachers received a small check at the end of August, full checks throughout the year, and a small check at the end of June.  It was fair.

Then we changed the school calendar and began school in early August and our kids graduated before Memorial Day.  It was a good choice because our high schoolers could finish first semester before Christmas, meaning that they didn't come back in January for a few days of class and then exams.  We teachers received full checks August - May.  It was fair.

Then our illustrious legislature decided this calendar, which everyone liked, was not good.  So we reverted to the earlier mid-August start . . . but somehow our paychecks didn't change back.  So we were still receiving a full check each month August - May.  Same amount of money, but the schedule was a bit off.  Not a big deal for most teachers, who worked the full year; however, it meant that a person who retired mid-year, or a person who left unexpectedly DID walk away with two weeks of unearned pay.  Multiply this times the whole state, and you have some poor stewardship of tax payer money.  However, when they announced that they were going to change the system and make it right, MANY people complained that it would be problematic for them. 
Huh, the average teacher pay in my district is over $77k per year, and they just went on strike for more money (and other things once they get the money terms agreed to).
Keep in mind that this figure is not typical of the average teacher salary.  With 23 years experience, I'm at about 43K. 
The worst is that they aren't negotiating for better new teacher terms.  Teachers can retire and get full pension.  And then they can be on call as paid substitutes.   All good so far.  But, once they retire,_ they keep their seniority, so no new teachers trying to gain experience as on call sub's  have a chance of hours or work. And they quit.  Seniority should reset to zero once you are drawing a full pension.. Which are quite large here.
Seniority doesn't get a person a sub job.  Sub jobs are typically assigned according to who's available at the last minute.  However, the reality is that when a teacher PLANS to be out of school (doctor's appointment or whatever), she tends to request a sub she knows -- and often that's a retired friend, someone we know has good classroom management skills. 


Psychstache

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2014, 09:11:18 AM »
I wish we could still get paid in 10 month chunks, it would be so nice to have more of the money up front. My district stopped offering the 10 month option so time before I started working here for the exact problems outlined here.

hermoninny

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2014, 09:36:23 AM »
Huh, the average teacher pay in my district is over $77k per year, and they just went on strike for more money (and other things once they get the money terms agreed to).
Keep in mind that this figure is not typical of the average teacher salary.  With 23 years experience, I'm at about 43K. 

I think pay varies wildly by state, as well.  My mom has been teaching for 11 years now, with a master's degree, and will break $80k this year.  But we're in CA, so HCOL, and she also teaches in a low-performing district so the pay is higher.  She's paid over 12 months, I believe.  I also believe they're given the option for 10 or 12.

I did the math and figured out that if she worked (and was paid for) a full year, she would make more money than I do.  It was quite a shock to both of us!  I told her that I would gladly take a 1/6 pay cut to have summers off and three weeks of vacation at Christmas (plus a week off each at Thanksgiving and Easter).  I've never analyzed how the hours come out though...she probably does work more hours per year than I do now that I'm in a 45-ish hours per week job instead of the 60-80 hours I used to work.  Not to mention the emotional hardship of working in a low-performing school, where she wants to help the kids so badly but is powerless over their circumstances at home.

{Edited because my grammar was atrocious}
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 09:38:31 AM by hermoninny »

deedeezee

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2014, 09:51:54 AM »
I had an interesting conversation with a colleague in my former district.
Our district closed out the fiscal year on the last day of school.  So teachers received five summer checks at once (May 31, June 15 & 30, and July 15 & 30).
My wife and I had ours direct deposited.  So May 31 we looked rich.  And we made it through to August 15 with no problems.
However, I had a colleague who declined direct deposit.  She wanted to have paper checks in hand to deposit in person.
Here's the kicker:  she didn't trust herself not to spend money in her account.  So she hand delivered checks to the bank on the normal payroll dates.  And she kept the checks in her purse until deposit day. 
She was walking around with 10k in checks in her purse.  And going to the bank on May 31, June 15, etc. to deposit them "on time."  Because she couldn't trust herself not to spent it all at once.
Sigh.

While that would be pretty depressing to hear, I admire her knowing that she couldn't be trusted with all of it in the bank.  I know a number of people who do "Christmas clubs" or "weekly savings plans" or whatever because if it was in their regular account, there would be no money left at Christmas/the last day of the month.  While it perplexes me, it definitely beats being overdrawn.  And I have literally seen these people withdraw from their accounts until they are in the single digits until the next payday.  As in, I hope nothing breaks, because you don't even have enough money to replace a windshield wiper.

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2014, 10:37:28 AM »

I think pay varies wildly by state, as well.  My mom has been teaching for 11 years now, with a master's degree, and will break $80k this year.  But we're in CA, so HCOL, and she also teaches in a low-performing district so the pay is higher.  She's paid over 12 months, I believe.  I also believe they're given the option for 10 or 12

I did the math and figured out that if she worked (and was paid for) a full year, she would make more money than I do.  It was quite a shock to both of us!  I told her that I would gladly take a 1/6 pay cut to have summers off and three weeks of vacation at Christmas (plus a week off each at Thanksgiving and Easter).  I've never analyzed how the hours come out though...she probably does work more hours per year than I do now that I'm in a 45-ish hours per week job instead of the 60-80 hours I used to work.  Not to mention the emotional hardship of working in a low-performing school, where she wants to help the kids so badly but is powerless over their circumstances at home.

{Edited because my grammar was atrocious}

Wow!  I want to teach in California if they give three weeks off for Christmas and a week off for Thanksgiving!  Like most teachers, I get one week off for Christmas/New Year's and three days off for Thanksgiving.

Thanks for pointing out the emotional hardship of working in a low-performing school.  I spent four years teaching impoverished inner city kids and it was pretty horrific.  I was assaulted by students regularly and ended up in urgent care twice for injuries.  I faced hours of racist and sexual verbal abuse per day from students (and administrators) and had to learn how to control situations where groups of students backed me up against the blackboard and tried to antagonize me into striking them so they could get me fired.  Administrators did not punish students, because they were worried about bad press and (especially) loss of funding for suspending students.  I also had to attend far too many funerals for students who were killed in gang violence.  In the end, I left for another district, because it just wasn't worth it from a physical, mental, or financial point of view.

Honestly, it makes zero sense to become a schoolteacher.  Just get a degree in business instead.  Then you get lots of money and you don't even have to be particularly smart.

hermoninny

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2014, 11:35:08 AM »

I think pay varies wildly by state, as well.  My mom has been teaching for 11 years now, with a master's degree, and will break $80k this year.  But we're in CA, so HCOL, and she also teaches in a low-performing district so the pay is higher.  She's paid over 12 months, I believe.  I also believe they're given the option for 10 or 12

I did the math and figured out that if she worked (and was paid for) a full year, she would make more money than I do.  It was quite a shock to both of us!  I told her that I would gladly take a 1/6 pay cut to have summers off and three weeks of vacation at Christmas (plus a week off each at Thanksgiving and Easter).  I've never analyzed how the hours come out though...she probably does work more hours per year than I do now that I'm in a 45-ish hours per week job instead of the 60-80 hours I used to work.  Not to mention the emotional hardship of working in a low-performing school, where she wants to help the kids so badly but is powerless over their circumstances at home.

{Edited because my grammar was atrocious}

Wow!  I want to teach in California if they give three weeks off for Christmas and a week off for Thanksgiving!  Like most teachers, I get one week off for Christmas/New Year's and three days off for Thanksgiving.

Thanks for pointing out the emotional hardship of working in a low-performing school.  I spent four years teaching impoverished inner city kids and it was pretty horrific.  I was assaulted by students regularly and ended up in urgent care twice for injuries.  I faced hours of racist and sexual verbal abuse per day from students (and administrators) and had to learn how to control situations where groups of students backed me up against the blackboard and tried to antagonize me into striking them so they could get me fired.  Administrators did not punish students, because they were worried about bad press and (especially) loss of funding for suspending students.  I also had to attend far too many funerals for students who were killed in gang violence.  In the end, I left for another district, because it just wasn't worth it from a physical, mental, or financial point of view.

Honestly, it makes zero sense to become a schoolteacher.  Just get a degree in business instead.  Then you get lots of money and you don't even have to be particularly smart.

But if you are smart, you have to put up with an insane amount of stupid people!

My mom teaches elementary school, so she doesn't go through nearly what you do.  But she deals with a lot of kids who just aren't being given the tools they need to succeed.  She tells me how the boys are out of control because they receive no discipline, and the girls are never allowed to do their homework because they're expected to come home and help their mom cook and clean and babysit younger siblings.  Most of the parents don't even speak English, so she can't talk to the parents, even if they would.  Nobody comes to back-to-school night or open house.  I help her grade papers when she just can't take it anymore - in 5th grade these kids can't even write a proper sentence, let alone a paragraph or a simple 5-paragraph essay.  I remember doing 5-page state reports and mission projects complete with a model mission we had to build (a CA thing) in 5th grade.  It's just so sad. 

golden1

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2014, 11:47:17 AM »
Quote
You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable. 

I don't live in Beverly Hills, but in a suburb of Boston (and not one of the super wealthy ones like Lexington or Newton) and the average teacher salary is 87K.  Yeah, my jaw dropped too when I looked it up.  Salaries seem to range from 55K up to 90K.   MA has really strong teachers unions and very good schools, not just nationwide but worldwide, so I don't begrudge them their pay at all.  They are also required to hold masters degrees.  Besides, I know they have their work cut out for them teaching my kids.  :P 



http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx

gimp

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2014, 01:24:34 PM »
MA, CT, NJ, and NY have pretty decent average salaries - over 60k by state.

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2014, 03:05:56 PM »
MA, CT, NJ, and NY have pretty decent average salaries - over 60k by state.

I live in NJ.  I live in an inexpensive area, so my property taxes alone are about $8000/year (much better than the really nice areas that can cost up to $20,000/year in taxes.  I also live in an inexpensive house, so I was able to buy it for less than $400,000 which just blew my friends' minds.  The cost of living is really high in NJ, so if you have lots of years of experience and make over $60k, it doesn't really go that far.  On the plus side, when it is time to retire and I sell my house, I will have tons of money for a retirement in one of those cheap Southern states with bad schools.

Brad_H

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2014, 03:58:35 PM »
Quote
You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable. 

I don't live in Beverly Hills, but in a suburb of Boston (and not one of the super wealthy ones like Lexington or Newton) and the average teacher salary is 87K.  Yeah, my jaw dropped too when I looked it up.  Salaries seem to range from 55K up to 90K.   MA has really strong teachers unions and very good schools, not just nationwide but worldwide, so I don't begrudge them their pay at all.  They are also required to hold masters degrees.  Besides, I know they have their work cut out for them teaching my kids.  :P 



http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx

I think your right; good teachers get paid a pretty average salary compared to the national range, minus the large amount of schooling required of course.

In May 2012, the median annual wage for kindergarten teachers was $50,120. The median annual wage for elementary school teachers was $53,400 in May 2012.  bls.gov

The BLS reports the median annual salary for high school teachers was $55,050 in 2012. bls.gov

For my anecdotal evidence; my sister-in-law is a teacher and she falls into the range above.


HairyUpperLip

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2014, 04:03:50 PM »
my cousin is a teacher in Ontario, Canada and makes 90k. Is that normal there?

Rural

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2014, 06:45:48 PM »
That $77k average mentioned above is higher than the maximum pay here for a teacher with a PhD and 25 years of experience.

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #26 on: July 24, 2014, 07:12:41 PM »
That $77k average mentioned above is higher than the maximum pay here for a teacher with a PhD and 25 years of experience.

Yeah, a lot of people live in fantasyland when it comes to assessing teacher pay.  Honestly, if anyone out there is choosing a career, choose something other than teaching.  I would suggest choosing either business or computer programming, because you will make much more money with much less work and stress than teaching.  Leave teaching to the Teach For America volunteers that Walmart and Bill Gates are bankrolling.

iris lily

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #27 on: July 24, 2014, 07:24:02 PM »
That $77k average mentioned above is higher than the maximum pay here for a teacher with a PhD and 25 years of experience.
It's even worse, that $77,000 was in Canadian dollars (I assume) since that poster is from B.C. That translates to $82,000 U.S. Yet another reason to move to Canada (not.)

Too bad because I would love B.C. Pretty weather, lovely place to grow lilies.

iris lily

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #28 on: July 24, 2014, 07:27:38 PM »
...
My mom teaches elementary school, so she doesn't go through nearly what you do.  But she deals with a lot of kids who just aren't being given the tools they need to succeed.  She tells me how the boys are out of control because they receive no discipline, and the girls are never allowed to do their homework because they're expected to come home and help their mom cook and clean and babysit younger siblings.  Most of the parents don't even speak English, so she can't talk to the parents, even if they would.  Nobody comes to back-to-school night or open house.  I help her grade papers when she just can't take it anymore - in 5th grade these kids can't even write a proper sentence, let alone a paragraph or a simple 5-paragraph essay.  I remember doing 5-page state reports and mission projects complete with a model mission we had to build (a CA thing) in 5th grade.  It's just so sad.
Perfect example of how throwing money at the problem will not help.

My urban city school district throw more money at each pupil than in the entire state and has the lowest test scores and gradation rates. Money, it's not about that. How's about values? Does anyone actually value education any more?

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2014, 08:33:20 PM »
...
My mom teaches elementary school, so she doesn't go through nearly what you do.  But she deals with a lot of kids who just aren't being given the tools they need to succeed.  She tells me how the boys are out of control because they receive no discipline, and the girls are never allowed to do their homework because they're expected to come home and help their mom cook and clean and babysit younger siblings.  Most of the parents don't even speak English, so she can't talk to the parents, even if they would.  Nobody comes to back-to-school night or open house.  I help her grade papers when she just can't take it anymore - in 5th grade these kids can't even write a proper sentence, let alone a paragraph or a simple 5-paragraph essay.  I remember doing 5-page state reports and mission projects complete with a model mission we had to build (a CA thing) in 5th grade.  It's just so sad.
Perfect example of how throwing money at the problem will not help.

My urban city school district throw more money at each pupil than in the entire state and has the lowest test scores and gradation rates. Money, it's not about that. How's about values? Does anyone actually value education any more?

Here in NJ, we "throw" lots of money at student achievement, which is why we have been in the Top 3 for education in the entire USA for a long time.  We had the highest rate of male African American graduates in the country.  Unfortunately, the people of NJ saw fit to elect Chris Christie as our governor and he immediately slashed the education budget by $1 billion, so now the quality of education we offer is beginning to decline.  Since it would be much more expensive to fund jobs programs and parenting classes to improve the society of our inner cities, "throwing money at the problem" of education is pretty much the only thing that can be done.  But a lot of people like to look down on poor minorities and "white trash", so they like to use lies, damned lies, and statistics to justify cutting off much needed programs like education.

Nobody in the USA values education.  Nobody.  There is a lot of talk, but that's all it is.  Talk.

Goldielocks

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #30 on: July 24, 2014, 09:08:12 PM »
That $77k average mentioned above is higher than the maximum pay here for a teacher with a PhD and 25 years of experience.
It's even worse, that $77,000 was in Canadian dollars (I assume) since that poster is from B.C. That translates to $82,000 U.S. Yet another reason to move to Canada (not.)

Too bad because I would love B.C. Pretty weather, lovely place to grow lilies.

Exchange rate is the other way around,so actually US$72k .

Re: Request system, not seniority, I stand corrected,

The following is a stretch for being on topic, but I was interested in learning more about how teacher salaries work here...

it is actually worse..seniority is not the driver, lots of connections are.  I have never seen a bad young teacher, the practicum seems to do a good job with their training under top teachers....  He is an extract from Vancouver Sun, may 13, 2013...:


The practise is called Preferential Callout (or The Request System), where teachers can hire their friends and relatives by requesting them to cover their classes when they book time off work. In my local it trumps everything – even qualification – and is the most widely practised use of employing teachers-on-call (TOCs) in the province (“TTOC Callout Systems”).

This letter is a heartfelt plea to the ministry to end this call-to-work practise that fuels the B.C. education system with nepotism and cronyism as a foundation for hiring into the profession.

From the TOC perspective, the game is to get as many teacher friends as you can to ‘request’ you so you are sure to work four days in a row in any four assignments (cf. the Ready Award, 2006). Once you hit Day 4, two big changes occur: you get paid on scale (at your experience & education level, sometimes double) retroactive to Day 1 and for all subsequent days, and you get to collect seniority for all of those days. (If you don’t hit the magical Day 4 — you get only the basic daily TOC pay and earn zero seniority. This, of course, is comparable to getting a Go Directly to Jail card! You have to start all over again.) For teachers near or at the maximum pay scale (for example, retired TOCs who may have had a career teaching), there is an extremely lucrative incentive to win a large ‘Friends’ list: you collect the Chance card, Advance to Go and Collect an extra $200.00! (In fact, this amount is not an exaggeration: compare the basic TOC pay of $213.90/day to scale pay near or at the max salary schedule and it’s around $400.)


iris lily

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #31 on: July 24, 2014, 09:16:12 PM »

Exchange rate is the other way around,so actually US$72k .[/quote]

oh you are right, sorry! well then, not so bad.



Zikoris

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #32 on: July 24, 2014, 11:34:11 PM »
I've been getting flamed online lately for calling out the teachers in BC who are striking right now and making all sorts of ridiculous claims. Teachers here in Vancouver start at about $39,000 at the very lowest (zero experience, minimal education, etc) and max out at about $70K, plus a gold-plated pension plan and incredibly generous benefits, vacation time, and sick time. Obviously they complain more than anyone about "Oh, Vancouver's expensive! We can't get by on that!".

The teacher's union ran out of strike pay after a few days since they've been going on strike a ridiculous amount over the last few years. After about two or three days of no pay, word got out that there was a special teacher's food bank opening so they don't starve. After just a handful of days without pay,  number of them apparently don't have any food left in the house! Here's an article about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/18/bc-teachers-strike-2014_n_5508619.html

Goldielocks

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #33 on: July 24, 2014, 11:42:54 PM »
I've been getting flamed online lately for calling out the teachers in BC who are striking right now and making all sorts of ridiculous claims. Teachers here in Vancouver start at about $39,000 at the very lowest (zero experience, minimal education, etc) and max out at about $70K, plus a gold-plated pension plan and incredibly generous benefits, vacation time, and sick time. Obviously they complain more than anyone about "Oh, Vancouver's expensive! We can't get by on that!".

The teacher's union ran out of strike pay after a few days since they've been going on strike a ridiculous amount over the last few years. After about two or three days of no pay, word got out that there was a special teacher's food bank opening so they don't starve. After just a handful of days without pay,  number of them apparently don't have any food left in the house! Here's an article about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/18/bc-teachers-strike-2014_n_5508619.html

FYI_ I don't think many are hired at zero,  if I recall the zero level is for a three year teaching diploma..  I think they get some points for work experience..  Bc avg is high because so many are over 10 yrs w.ith grad degree.

Zikoris

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #34 on: July 25, 2014, 12:17:42 AM »
I've been getting flamed online lately for calling out the teachers in BC who are striking right now and making all sorts of ridiculous claims. Teachers here in Vancouver start at about $39,000 at the very lowest (zero experience, minimal education, etc) and max out at about $70K, plus a gold-plated pension plan and incredibly generous benefits, vacation time, and sick time. Obviously they complain more than anyone about "Oh, Vancouver's expensive! We can't get by on that!".

The teacher's union ran out of strike pay after a few days since they've been going on strike a ridiculous amount over the last few years. After about two or three days of no pay, word got out that there was a special teacher's food bank opening so they don't starve. After just a handful of days without pay,  number of them apparently don't have any food left in the house! Here's an article about it: http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/18/bc-teachers-strike-2014_n_5508619.html

FYI_ I don't think many are hired at zero,  if I recall the zero level is for a three year teaching diploma..  I think they get some points for work experience..  Bc avg is high because so many are over 10 yrs w.ith grad degree.

Yeah, there probably are actually zero in the lowest pay grades just because the southern parts of BC are such desirable places to live and work that the teacher supply and demand are seriously out of whack. You'd be hard-pressed to get any sort of a teaching job other than on a northern Indian reserve without some serious credentials and experience, and given declining enrollment, it's not going to get any better.

MrsPete

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #35 on: July 25, 2014, 11:20:33 AM »
Honestly, it makes zero sense to become a schoolteacher.  Just get a degree in business instead.  Then you get lots of money and you don't even have to be particularly smart.
I know that my state's educational system is in much more trouble than the rest of the country's, but I think you're right.  Only teachers at the top-top-top of the salary scale break the 50K mark, and our salaries have been frozen for six years -- while our insurance and other benefit costs have increased; thus, we are bringing home fewer dollars than we did in the past.  This has affected morale. 

When I started teaching, it was still a pretty good deal:  The salary was fair, the benefits were good, and -- if you stayed -- the pension was worthwhile.  Today the work load has increased exponentially, and our legislature is actively trying to destroy the public education system in our state.  They want to see it replaced with charter schools and online classes, which are cheaper for the taxpayer.  Or, I could say, they're cheaper for the taxpayer today, but they'll cost more down the line when many of our kids have slipped through the cracks and are not prepared for the work world. 

Thing is, if you're a teacher, you're a teacher.  It's one of those jobs that's more of a calling than a decision.  I knew I was a teacher, but I went into another field . . . for a while.  Then I came back to what I was meant to do.  I don't think I fully grasped this until I realized that my oldest child was a nurse -- she just was one from the start.  Teachers, nurses, and preachers -- we just are what we are. 

Brad_H

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #36 on: July 25, 2014, 11:41:52 AM »
Has anyone else noticed that jobs described as "a calling" are jobs that no one would do at that pay rate, in those conditions, if it was just presented as a normal job?

Cpa Cat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2014, 12:15:52 PM »
I can see a Summer loan a being a somewhat reasonable money management policy. You take out the loan and pay it off. It has a 0 balance by the time the next Summer roles around. I see how it makes sense to some people.

It makes more sense to take that loan payment and instead save that $ each month for your Summer expenses. But once you're already in the cycle, and now you're faced with a loan payment AND trying to save an equal amount for next Summer, I can see how that would be difficult.

Well... I can see how it would be difficult without the power of Mustachianism.

Deano

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2014, 12:44:36 PM »
my cousin is a teacher in Ontario, Canada and makes 90k. Is that normal there?

A teacher in Ontario who has 11 years and is top of the grid (a few specialist qualifications gets you there-equal to maybe 1.5 years of uni) will make 95k-ish. In Alberta it is around 100k.

This will change in the fall-it will be 16 years and there will be no pay raise for many years to come. Of course that means a likely teacher strike (with the accompanying stories of husband/wife teacher duo's who make near 200k between them suddenly struggling after a week or two of a strike).


MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2014, 01:11:18 PM »
Has anyone else noticed that jobs described as "a calling" are jobs that no one would do at that pay rate, in those conditions, if it was just presented as a normal job?

Yup.  I was "called" to be a teacher, but then my salary and benefits got seriously slashed and they quadrupled my workload.  Then, they changed how I am evaluated by basing it on how students do on standardized tests, which is kind of like evaluating a dentist based on how many cavities their patients get.  Nobody even understands anymore that some kids are just slow.  It is ridiculous.  All the teachers who could retire early have done so and many of the remaining teachers have either switched to another line-of-work or they are actively looking for another one.  It's really sad and the kids are suffering because of all this "reform".  But if I complain about any of this, I am told that I am selfish and I don't care about children.  There is no way to win.

By the way, if what the Canadians on this thread are telling me about teaching in Canada is true, that is absolutely amazing.  From this and other things I have read about life in Canada, you guys really have it good.  Universal healthcare, national pensions, fantastic social safety net, college education without massive student loans, WOW.  Life in Canada sounds really easy compared to life in the USA.

PtboEliz

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2014, 01:22:05 PM »
my cousin is a teacher in Ontario, Canada and makes 90k. Is that normal there?

Yep, my brother and his wife are both teachers
in Ontario (not big city), 10 yrs experience, one high
school, one elementary, and they each make $90k.

gildedbutterfly

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2014, 02:56:11 PM »
Quote
You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable. 

I don't live in Beverly Hills, but in a suburb of Boston (and not one of the super wealthy ones like Lexington or Newton) and the average teacher salary is 87K.  Yeah, my jaw dropped too when I looked it up.  Salaries seem to range from 55K up to 90K.   MA has really strong teachers unions and very good schools, not just nationwide but worldwide, so I don't begrudge them their pay at all.  They are also required to hold masters degrees.  Besides, I know they have their work cut out for them teaching my kids.  :P 



http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx

I think your right; good teachers get paid a pretty average salary compared to the national range, minus the large amount of schooling required of course.

In May 2012, the median annual wage for kindergarten teachers was $50,120. The median annual wage for elementary school teachers was $53,400 in May 2012.  bls.gov

The BLS reports the median annual salary for high school teachers was $55,050 in 2012. bls.gov

For my anecdotal evidence; my sister-in-law is a teacher and she falls into the range above.

Note that the Boston teacher salary info shared is not median, though; it's made up of means, which are more subject to outliers. Still impressive, but just keep in mind that a few PhD's who have been around for 25+ years could feasibly skew that number upwards. And I wouldn't compare the BLS data to the Boston data, just because one is median and one is mean.

mustachianteacher

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #42 on: July 25, 2014, 05:45:23 PM »
I am a teacher for a large urban school district in southern CA, and I make $72K. I have 15 years of experience, but no MA because the bonus for a Master's is only about $1500 a year. Wasn't worth it to me.

We've been getting 12 paychecks for a few years now, but when I first started, we only got 10. It was downright bizarre to me that even the district HR person who explained this to me also matter-of-factly mentioned those personal loans, like it was just what everyone did, no big deal. I went right home and figured out how much to set aside every month to be fine during the summer, but it was weird to me how many people didn't bother doing that or couldn't. Even stranger is why, now that we all get 12 paychecks, the local teachers' credit union *still* advertises in our union paper for those loans. They take out full-color full-page ads, so it must be worth it to them in terms of teachers responding to those ads. All I can think then is, "Wait, you're getting paid every single month, and you STILL need a summer loan?!?!" They must be having some kick-ass summers!

Rural

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2014, 06:37:16 PM »
I'd never heard of the summer loan thing; public schools here pay over 12 months. I will say it's a good thing those personal loans aren't advertised, though, or half my colleagues at the college would be getting them -- the university system pays ten-month employees for the 10 months they work, sensibly enough.


Oh, and for new teachers to a K12 system, they want to split a year's pay into 13 months because otherwise new teachers would work for a month and a half before seeing a check. It's a real pain talking them out of that, even just transferring from another state system...


You'd think low pay would mean people would figure out how to live on low pay, but no.

Latwell

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #44 on: July 25, 2014, 06:51:29 PM »
I audit schools. Less than half of my clients offer "summer pay" for teachers. When teachers complain, the administration explains that the only difference between the school offering summer pay and the teacher doing the summer pay themselves is the interest.

If the school offers summer pay:
They literally take 10% of each paycheck and deposit it in another bank account. It sits and collects interest. When summer rolls around, more often than not, the school keeps the interest and just hands the teacher their money.

The school encourages the teachers to save the 10% on their own so they get the interest.

Metta

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #45 on: July 25, 2014, 10:18:39 PM »
I think a common problem for people with income that changes over the course of the year is knowing how much they actually need. Very few people can keep mental books (though almost everyone I know thinks that they are the exception). The trick for inconsistent income is knowing your normal spend rate. The best thing for that is keeping a budget/spend analysis/cash flow document and you really don't reap the full benefits of your documentation until you've spent a year recording. Less than a third of people keep a budget, which is probably why a summer loan is important for them as a method of cash flow smoothing.

libertarian4321

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #46 on: July 26, 2014, 02:26:05 AM »
Quote
You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable. 

I don't live in Beverly Hills, but in a suburb of Boston (and not one of the super wealthy ones like Lexington or Newton) and the average teacher salary is 87K.  Yeah, my jaw dropped too when I looked it up.  Salaries seem to range from 55K up to 90K.   MA has really strong teachers unions and very good schools, not just nationwide but worldwide, so I don't begrudge them their pay at all.  They are also required to hold masters degrees.  Besides, I know they have their work cut out for them teaching my kids.  :P 



http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx

I think your right; good teachers get paid a pretty average salary compared to the national range, minus the large amount of schooling required of course.

In May 2012, the median annual wage for kindergarten teachers was $50,120. The median annual wage for elementary school teachers was $53,400 in May 2012.  bls.gov

The BLS reports the median annual salary for high school teachers was $55,050 in 2012. bls.gov

For my anecdotal evidence; my sister-in-law is a teacher and she falls into the range above.

Average teacher pay in the USA is now up near $58,000 per year (though it varies widely by locality).

Not "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" money, but a HELL of a lot more than most people make.

On their first day of work, I suspect the teacher's union implants a chip in their brain that recite the "teachers are underpaid!" mantra at least once a day.

Someday, I hope I meet someone who says, "I'm a teacher.  I get paid a pretty damned good salary, far more than most workers.  I also get a ton of time off.  I really don't have much to complain about."

That kind of honesty would be refreshing. 

sheepstache

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #47 on: July 26, 2014, 05:21:11 AM »
a HELL of a lot more than most people make.

. . .

far more than most workers. 

What does that have to do with anything?  You some kind of socialist?

SnpKraklePhyz

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2014, 05:38:44 AM »
+1 for all that MoneyCat says.  Over and over again - what MoneyCat says.  If you think we are overpaid and under worked come do our job.  Follow me around for a day. Come to professional development meetings. Watch our morale tank as students run the school and parents make demands. And kids out there - find something else to do. Anything else.  At least you can go to the bathroom when you need to in some other field.

MoneyCat

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Re: Teachers taking out personal loans to cover expenses in the Summer
« Reply #49 on: July 26, 2014, 11:12:35 AM »
Quote
You must live in Beverly Hills or something because I've been teaching for a decade and I make nowhere near that much money from that job (combined with my SO's pay and my side hustles, we make significantly more, of course).  I have heard of Baby Boomers in some places who have been teaching for 25 years making that kind of money, but nobody of the current generation will ever be that comfortable. 

I don't live in Beverly Hills, but in a suburb of Boston (and not one of the super wealthy ones like Lexington or Newton) and the average teacher salary is 87K.  Yeah, my jaw dropped too when I looked it up.  Salaries seem to range from 55K up to 90K.   MA has really strong teachers unions and very good schools, not just nationwide but worldwide, so I don't begrudge them their pay at all.  They are also required to hold masters degrees.  Besides, I know they have their work cut out for them teaching my kids.  :P 



http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/state_report/teachersalaries.aspx

I think your right; good teachers get paid a pretty average salary compared to the national range, minus the large amount of schooling required of course.

In May 2012, the median annual wage for kindergarten teachers was $50,120. The median annual wage for elementary school teachers was $53,400 in May 2012.  bls.gov

The BLS reports the median annual salary for high school teachers was $55,050 in 2012. bls.gov

For my anecdotal evidence; my sister-in-law is a teacher and she falls into the range above.

Average teacher pay in the USA is now up near $58,000 per year (though it varies widely by locality).

Not "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" money, but a HELL of a lot more than most people make.

On their first day of work, I suspect the teacher's union implants a chip in their brain that recite the "teachers are underpaid!" mantra at least once a day.

Someday, I hope I meet someone who says, "I'm a teacher.  I get paid a pretty damned good salary, far more than most workers.  I also get a ton of time off.  I really don't have much to complain about."

That kind of honesty would be refreshing.

Find me another profession where if you have a Master's Degree, you earn $50,000 after ten years of service.  Go ahead, Mr. Smartypants.  And then try to live on that $50,000 in New York City or San Francisco.  Then tell me again how teachers are so overpaid.  Sometimes I want to walk into an engineer's or doctor's office and just start screaming at them about how they are overpaid losers and how they should all be fired just so I can show them how it feels to be a teacher every single day.