Author Topic: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast  (Read 3028 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« on: May 29, 2020, 01:15:39 PM »
So, the Venomous Spaz Beast earned her official certification as my hearing ear dog a little more than a year ago. She alerts me to things in my environment I can no longer hear, she tells me when I'm about to have a migraine, and before she even earned her service dog credentials she saved the house from burning down. We're blissfully happy, almost to the point of over-attachment on my part. On the rare cases I emerge from the love coma, I recognize that if anything happened to the VSB I'd be a candidate for suicide watch. That's not such a good thing. Also, is the constant basking in unconditional love good for my productivity? Yes, I travel with the VSB-- as I should. Yet I'm concerned about the wee creature waiting at home for me while I work. Are our two solitudes healthy for us?

Enter the Piss Biscuit. He's a three-legged Chihuahua, about ten years old, with a lot of trauma in his background. He was mutilated when someone threw him and one of his brothers into a yard with a large, aggressive dog. He lost a rear leg and was attacked again while in foster care. His original family became homeless and didn't want him back. The family fostering him (neighbors of mine) found a home for his surviving brother, but not the PB. They have noted that he's not really happy there in a house with lots of kids and animals. So they left him with us while they went on a multi-day camping trip. PB is staying with us. The first day, he escaped from containment, chewed up the front door mat, barked loud enough for my neighbor to text and ask if the (usually silent) VSB was hurt, and peed on the carpet several times. Since then, he's dialed down on the chewing and barking. His tail is no longer tucked as much, he's snuggling up, and overall he's not a bad dog. Not sure about the pee marking behavior: the VSB says there is progress but she is still annoyed. There's an obvious difference between the highly trained VSB who passed the Public Access Test, who obeys hand signals, who can practically speak French, and who is incredibly cute. That's because the VSB (due in part to the year she spent in training) acts like an alien from outer space or possibly an avatar of a mighty demonic overlord. Although the VSB is shaped like a dog and has a fondness for bacon, she has infernal knowledge and powers beyond the ken of the normal canine. She basically has near-human intelligence despite occupying a 2 kilogram body, with a brain the size of a walnut (shell off, not shell on). Not so with the PB who is obviously just a dog and a fugly and badly trained one at that. We taught him how to walk on a leash the first day and he only fear-bit me once, but the VSB is disgusted by his lack of fuss and platz capability.

The VSB disliked the PB intensely at first and has been training him. She seems to have fixed the chewing and at least some of the barking. If we can get through the peeing behavior the Piss Biscuit may actually be a good dog. He likes to sleep in the bed with us. The VSB is annoyed but seems to have gotten over it, especially last night when she realized that if the PB holds down the covers on one side of me and she snuggles up on the other, I am effectively dog-stapled to the bed and cannot move. The VSB is starting to be amused although she still does not like the idea of sharing me.

What the hell am I thinking, taking in a dog that I think needs a trip to the dentist and a nail trim? I think the foster family might care for him when I'm out of town but am I seriously considering inviting him to stay? I believe I might be. Talk me out of it, please.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 01:28:03 PM »
How long has PB been staying with you? Sounds like a lot of progress in a very short amount of time. (I'm crap at talking people out of things it sounds like they really want to do, in case that were not obvious.)

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 01:40:57 PM »
OK, you asked.  If I were you, I'd be getting a second dog than can step into the shoes of the first hell beast once she starts to become elderly and can no longer do what you need doing.  Unless you're game for having three dogs at once. Which would be a challenge. Is the juice worth the squeeze?  Only you can answer that.   

I already have a hell hound and dogs that have "issues" are a time suck. Worth it I think and they do seem to get better over time. And speaking for ourselves we're going to double down on stupid and get a second one.

 Pragmatism does enter into the equation though given that you will need another service dog in the future. 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 01:42:47 PM »
How long has PB been staying with you? Sounds like a lot of progress in a very short amount of time. (I'm crap at talking people out of things it sounds like they really want to do, in case that were not obvious.)

Since Tuesday. It's Friday now and he's tuned in with regard to leash walking basics, the chewing (fixed), possibly the barking, and we're making progress on the peeing. Not bad for a Piss Biscuit.

I attribute all the progress to the preternatural wisdom and unearthly powers of the Venomous Spaz Beast.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2020, 02:53:32 PM »
if you keep the PB, does that preclude getting another service dog in the future? Are there stipulations about existing pets that would make that difficult or not possible?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 03:56:19 PM »
if you keep the PB, does that preclude getting another service dog in the future? Are there stipulations about existing pets that would make that difficult or not possible?

There's no conflict at all, except to the extent a service dog could be hurt by a pet or taught bad habits. In the PB's case it's not a risk: the dog has three legs and he's ten years old. The VSB, who will be four this fall, is probably less than half his size yet she outruns him easily when it suits her.

SailingOnASmallSailboat

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2020, 03:58:09 PM »
oh good. I had no idea how old VSB was. You should have lots of time with her.

MayDay

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2020, 06:15:39 AM »
Chihuahuas frequently never fully house train, from what I have heard from friends who have adopted them.

Are you prepared for pee pads forever?

They also seem difficult to train even to pee pads because they just do not give a fuck. Yes owner, you trained me to go outside, and you gave me pee pads as an alternative and taught me to use them, it why should I bother with your dictates when there is a perfectly good rug right here?

MudPuppy

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2020, 10:18:15 AM »
If you're willing to put the time in to 1) let PB settle in and 2) train PB as needed when you see what behaviors are "real" and what was just stress, go for it


(I have three rescue pits, two of which are special needs, I'm a bad person to ask)

Sibley

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2020, 11:08:24 AM »
I would give things at least another week before you decide. I too am fostering, though this cat is no where near as traumatized. I'm on day 2 and it's not going well, but it just takes time.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2020, 11:11:00 AM »
Poor Piss Biscuit doesn't know how to be in a stable home, where he's safe and appreciated. You may end up with quite a different dog with some time and attention, especially from the first hellbeast! You've already seen signs of that. Go for it, I say. The most problematic-at-first-glance pets are also often the most rewarding. Give the little Pissant what he's never known and reap the daily joy for years to come.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2020, 08:45:23 PM »
Well, the Piss Biscuit is back home with his family and will stay there. The VSB, who is fully housebroken despite her Chihuahua status, is napping. You could call it a case of sweet relief.

The peeing turned out to be dominance related and the other behaviors turned out to be due to separation anxiety. I did get him relaxed, playing, walking on a leash and accepting grooming and belly rubs. He will find a home but it will be a place where hes the only dog and someone is home all the time.

Dicey

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2020, 03:03:02 AM »
And with that news, I just breathed a sweet sigh of relief. Sometimes it is okay not to right all the wrongs, but it's a really difficult decision.

Just curious, VSB sounds exactly the opposite of her name. How did she achieve her moniker?

UnleashHell

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2020, 05:48:30 AM »
And with that news, I just breathed a sweet sigh of relief. Sometimes it is okay not to right all the wrongs, but it's a really difficult decision.

Just curious, VSB sounds exactly the opposite of her name. How did she achieve her moniker?

I suspect just going through the puppy stage will do it.

i have one right now who can go from "world's most loyal and loving shadow" to "I'm a rabid, feral dunderhead" in about 0.002 of a second. Calmness does not become them.

MudPuppy

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2020, 06:46:42 AM »
@UnleashHell We call that the Trickster God Stage in our fosters

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2020, 07:10:43 AM »
You know, I had no idea that the VSB was a chihuahua. I have no experience with chihuahuas. Can they really be that bad??? Try living with a husky! They have zero loyalty, they don't give a crap about commands unless it's something they want to do anyway, they WILL run if given half a chance and you will never catch them, they can climb, they can figure out locks/fridges/doors/toilet flushes, they shed like a mofo, they think 10km is just a warm up, they will jump in any body of water they find even if it means bodily dragging you in with them and they have more slobber than any other animal on the planet.

UnleashHell

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2020, 07:11:59 AM »
@UnleashHell We call that the Trickster God Stage in our fosters
devious bastards the lot of 'em.

BikeFanatic

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2020, 08:24:41 AM »
Chihuahua chihuahua are not as bad as that Husky! They can be challenging but are very loyal and can only cause pint size damage. I use wee wee pads for accidents, mostly effective. The intelligence and loyalty is very high I have found.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2020, 09:20:04 AM »
And with that news, I just breathed a sweet sigh of relief. Sometimes it is okay not to right all the wrongs, but it's a really difficult decision.

Just curious, VSB sounds exactly the opposite of her name. How did she achieve her moniker?

The VSB does have a real name. It's the one on her license. It's a nice name that suits her sweet personality and her appearance.

She was venomous because I'm technically allergic to dog saliva, having been exposed as a toddler when I got bitten in the face by an Afghan hound whose owners did not see fit to keep up with the dog's rabies shots. The VSB has a propensity for sticking her tongue up my nose. It's small enough to fit, but since my nose has been broken three times my septum is basically an accordion and she can't get a lot of depth. That nasal irrigation behavior, which she appears to enjoy so much I can use my nose as a reward-- earned her the "venomous" label. By now I think my system has accepted dog saliva as a normal part of my environment.

All puppies are spaz beasts, although since I've puppy-sat for others I now understand that there are levels of bad behavior an order of magnitude more serious than what the VSB displayed. Since she's tiny (less than 6 pounds) a puppy pad really isn't as serious as a soiled diaper on a newborn. I've trained the VSB to use them because she travels with me as a service dog and we can't always get outdoors. I can put a puppy pad down in any restroom, even on an airplane, and she takes care of her business while I take care of mine. Then I roll up and dispose of the used puppy pad as though it were a diaper. It works.

mm1970

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2020, 05:32:02 PM »
So, I cannot do that.  I think of you and the VSB fairly often, actually.

We adopted our own VSB Chihuahua mix on Black Friday of last year.  She seemed pretty mellow at the pound, the only non-barky, non-marking dog that we visited that day.  Her first few days at home, she was mellow.  She met people.  She snuggled me.  She peed on the carpet a few times till we trained her not to do that.

Then all hell broke loose.  Because, you see, we became HER PEOPLE.  So then...she barked at everything she sees out the front window.  She barks on walks, at any runner/ biker.  Woe be anyone else who enters our house.  She lunges and barks at other dogs on our walks (we try to pick lightly trafficked times and places). She got away from us on a walk and bit another dog. (Other dog is fine, ours is probably 10 and has few teeth.) We have been working, very slowly, to train her.  Will likely sign up for individual online training when school is out for the kids.  She's slightly better.  Thing is, she's old, and she was a stray, and she's had babies (she was not spayed when they found her.)

I wouldn't change adopting her.  She required a $5000 hernia surgery just 2 months ago.  She's a work in progress.  We are working on her.  We love our girl.

mm1970

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2020, 05:34:11 PM »
Chihuahuas frequently never fully house train, from what I have heard from friends who have adopted them.

Are you prepared for pee pads forever?

They also seem difficult to train even to pee pads because they just do not give a fuck. Yes owner, you trained me to go outside, and you gave me pee pads as an alternative and taught me to use them, it why should I bother with your dictates when there is a perfectly good rug right here?
We have never tried pee pads.  Our only problem with our dog is that she hates the rain. If it's raining and she has to pee, she will literally just pee on the carpet.

Luckily it rains very rarely.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #21 on: June 01, 2020, 07:14:49 PM »
Chihuahuas frequently never fully house train, from what I have heard from friends who have adopted them.

Are you prepared for pee pads forever?

They also seem difficult to train even to pee pads because they just do not give a fuck. Yes owner, you trained me to go outside, and you gave me pee pads as an alternative and taught me to use them, it why should I bother with your dictates when there is a perfectly good rug right here?
We have never tried pee pads.  Our only problem with our dog is that she hates the rain. If it's raining and she has to pee, she will literally just pee on the carpet.

Luckily it rains very rarely.

Why wouldn't you just get her a wee dirt box?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2020, 08:29:55 AM »
Chihuahuas frequently never fully house train, from what I have heard from friends who have adopted them.

Are you prepared for pee pads forever?

They also seem difficult to train even to pee pads because they just do not give a fuck. Yes owner, you trained me to go outside, and you gave me pee pads as an alternative and taught me to use them, it why should I bother with your dictates when there is a perfectly good rug right here?
We have never tried pee pads.  Our only problem with our dog is that she hates the rain. If it's raining and she has to pee, she will literally just pee on the carpet.

Luckily it rains very rarely.

I trained the VSB as a puppy by beginning with the crate, then gradually expanding her space (in a bathroom with non-carpeted floors) until she was consistently peeing on the pad. I praised her for using the pad and did not take her outside (which I couldn't have done anyway until she was old enough for all the shots). Gradually I expanded the area to which she had unsupervised access. Now she has the run of my entire house and nary an accident.

It's possible that containment and gradual expansion may work for you too. I messed with the VSB's environment to make it easy for her to become a Very Good Dog. Also, early on we established some positive and negative reinforcement words. An experienced dogspeaker taught me that "Uh-uh" is a word in Dog, much like "hsst" is a word in Cat. Dogs make an "uh-uh" sound when they don't like what you're doing. For a split second, they will stop whatever they're doing and do something else. You have a fraction of a second to respond and make changes. Past that, they go back to what they're doing.

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2020, 12:43:16 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2020, 03:47:47 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

SunnyDays

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2020, 09:57:09 AM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2020, 05:01:25 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2020, 05:42:16 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2020, 12:17:05 AM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2020, 08:15:55 AM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2020, 10:57:39 AM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

When I think of how many threads I've derailed myself I have no grounds to object.

I've often thought of taking the VSB to NZ for a visit, maybe to celebrate Wolfenoot in the same city it was developed in. It's summer in NZ when it's winter in the Northern hemisphere, and the VSB adores the sun and the warmth. Sadly intercontinental flight is no-go this season, and probably next season too.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2020, 12:33:42 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

When I think of how many threads I've derailed myself I have no grounds to object.

I've often thought of taking the VSB to NZ for a visit, maybe to celebrate Wolfenoot in the same city it was developed in. It's summer in NZ when it's winter in the Northern hemisphere, and the VSB adores the sun and the warmth. Sadly intercontinental flight is no-go this season, and probably next season too.

Rabies quarantine.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2020, 06:57:10 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

Where were your sheep breeders? Because we do have snow down south, floods in the middle and currently a heavy drought up north. But no predators. Except for kea, which will attack sheep.

We have little wild weasels and stoats in the country. Not in the city areas. Smallish hawks and owls also. Nothing major. Our only native mammal is a tiny bat.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2020, 07:38:46 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

Where were your sheep breeders? Because we do have snow down south, floods in the middle and currently a heavy drought up north. But no predators. Except for kea, which will attack sheep.

We have little wild weasels and stoats in the country. Not in the city areas. Smallish hawks and owls also. Nothing major. Our only native mammal is a tiny bat.

My sheep breeders were at the Majacraft spinning retreat.  I think they came from both islands.  The one I chatted with most was northern part of South Island.  She keeps a rare breed that developed after going wild.  Amazing fleece.

There is snow and then there is snow that is deep, with ice layers.  Sheep here basically spend most of the winter in the barn. So do dairy cows. They all get to go outside on nice days.  We have snow on the ground for roughly 4 months.  Then mud season.

Predators  - the coyotes are getting bolder.  One bit a man delivering early morning newspapers on the outskirts of Ottawa.  Google Ottawa coyote attacks Riverside South.

Weasels. We have oodles of mustelids, from weasels to fishers and wolverines, to otters, to skunks. 

TGS, I am having visions of the VSB trying to herd.  Just not sure what would be wary of a dog that size.  ;-)

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2020, 10:31:27 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

Where were your sheep breeders? Because we do have snow down south, floods in the middle and currently a heavy drought up north. But no predators. Except for kea, which will attack sheep.

We have little wild weasels and stoats in the country. Not in the city areas. Smallish hawks and owls also. Nothing major. Our only native mammal is a tiny bat.

My sheep breeders were at the Majacraft spinning retreat.  I think they came from both islands.  The one I chatted with most was northern part of South Island.  She keeps a rare breed that developed after going wild.  Amazing fleece.

There is snow and then there is snow that is deep, with ice layers.  Sheep here basically spend most of the winter in the barn. So do dairy cows. They all get to go outside on nice days.  We have snow on the ground for roughly 4 months.  Then mud season.

Predators  - the coyotes are getting bolder.  One bit a man delivering early morning newspapers on the outskirts of Ottawa.  Google Ottawa coyote attacks Riverside South.

Weasels. We have oodles of mustelids, from weasels to fishers and wolverines, to otters, to skunks. 

TGS, I am having visions of the VSB trying to herd.  Just not sure what would be wary of a dog that size.  ;-)

High country farms in the south island get pretty frickin cold. Enough that people keep heaters behind their toilets to keep the pipes from bursting and the cistern from freezing. NZ is not a tropical island! We're subantarctic down here. Inland parts of the south island are regularly snowed in. I don't know that a rare breed farmer would be in the position of a high country wool farmer. Even in the coastal south island where I am, we don't get lovely fluffy snow - we get ice pellets that come down and cut your face before freezing to the sidewalk. It's a frick of a lot colder here than where I grew up in Vancouver. Merino sheep have merino coats. They don't need a barn, just a windbreak.

VSB could herd guinea pigs.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2020, 07:01:25 AM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

Where were your sheep breeders? Because we do have snow down south, floods in the middle and currently a heavy drought up north. But no predators. Except for kea, which will attack sheep.

We have little wild weasels and stoats in the country. Not in the city areas. Smallish hawks and owls also. Nothing major. Our only native mammal is a tiny bat.

My sheep breeders were at the Majacraft spinning retreat.  I think they came from both islands.  The one I chatted with most was northern part of South Island.  She keeps a rare breed that developed after going wild.  Amazing fleece.

There is snow and then there is snow that is deep, with ice layers.  Sheep here basically spend most of the winter in the barn. So do dairy cows. They all get to go outside on nice days.  We have snow on the ground for roughly 4 months.  Then mud season.

Predators  - the coyotes are getting bolder.  One bit a man delivering early morning newspapers on the outskirts of Ottawa.  Google Ottawa coyote attacks Riverside South.

Weasels. We have oodles of mustelids, from weasels to fishers and wolverines, to otters, to skunks. 

TGS, I am having visions of the VSB trying to herd.  Just not sure what would be wary of a dog that size.  ;-)

High country farms in the south island get pretty frickin cold. Enough that people keep heaters behind their toilets to keep the pipes from bursting and the cistern from freezing. NZ is not a tropical island! We're subantarctic down here. Inland parts of the south island are regularly snowed in. I don't know that a rare breed farmer would be in the position of a high country wool farmer. Even in the coastal south island where I am, we don't get lovely fluffy snow - we get ice pellets that come down and cut your face before freezing to the sidewalk. It's a frick of a lot colder here than where I grew up in Vancouver. Merino sheep have merino coats. They don't need a barn, just a windbreak.

VSB could herd guinea pigs.

I found a video of a Chihuahua herding cows.  ;-)  Maybe the AKC should move them from Toy to Working Group?  ;-)

AGAM, you do remember that those of us east of the Rockies know that Vancouverites don't have "Canadian winters".  Although your winters sound reasonably harsh.  I think the issue for local breeders here is depth of snow and degree of cold.  There is no forage and there are coyotes.  If a coyote will attack a newaper delivery guy, think what several of them could do to a sheep.  Barns are safer.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2020, 01:02:49 PM »
A chihuahua?  The VSB is a CHIHUAHUA?  Hahahahahahaha.  Here I was envisioning a great slavering beast, like Cujo!  Oh my.

Yes, hssst, definitely is a "word in Cat."  I use it all the time to stop mine from shredding my carpet.  I remember once my sister had come over and my cat was doing the greeting march toward her, when she opened a canned soft drink, that of course went "hssst" just as he got a couple of feet away from her.  He leapt backwards so fast!  Too funny.

My cat comes running in on wet days to sit by his little radiant heater (yes, it's his heater - he's an old man and you can't bask in front of aircon!), shakes like a dog and then leaps in the air when the droplets on the heater go 'hssst'. Every time, dumb little monster!

Unlike dogs, cats are prisoners of their instinct.  They will just never learn to override their hard wiring of fear.  At least this amuses us!

Unlike dogs, cats are both predator and prey. They do startle easily, and for good reason.

In my area coyotes, fishers, and great horned owls will all easily take cats.  And very small dogs.  Raccoons can take kittens and small cats.

Fortunately, my cat lives in a country with none of those. We have stoats, ferrets and rats, which would take kittens. That's it.

Fishers are the extra large version of weasels.

I was talking with sheep breeders while I was there (NZ).  No heavy snow so year-round pasture, no predators, so easy compared to what my sheep-keeping friends here have to deal with.

TGS we seem to have gone OT here. But just think how safe the VSB would be if you moved to New Zealand!

Where were your sheep breeders? Because we do have snow down south, floods in the middle and currently a heavy drought up north. But no predators. Except for kea, which will attack sheep.

We have little wild weasels and stoats in the country. Not in the city areas. Smallish hawks and owls also. Nothing major. Our only native mammal is a tiny bat.

My sheep breeders were at the Majacraft spinning retreat.  I think they came from both islands.  The one I chatted with most was northern part of South Island.  She keeps a rare breed that developed after going wild.  Amazing fleece.

There is snow and then there is snow that is deep, with ice layers.  Sheep here basically spend most of the winter in the barn. So do dairy cows. They all get to go outside on nice days.  We have snow on the ground for roughly 4 months.  Then mud season.

Predators  - the coyotes are getting bolder.  One bit a man delivering early morning newspapers on the outskirts of Ottawa.  Google Ottawa coyote attacks Riverside South.

Weasels. We have oodles of mustelids, from weasels to fishers and wolverines, to otters, to skunks. 

TGS, I am having visions of the VSB trying to herd.  Just not sure what would be wary of a dog that size.  ;-)

High country farms in the south island get pretty frickin cold. Enough that people keep heaters behind their toilets to keep the pipes from bursting and the cistern from freezing. NZ is not a tropical island! We're subantarctic down here. Inland parts of the south island are regularly snowed in. I don't know that a rare breed farmer would be in the position of a high country wool farmer. Even in the coastal south island where I am, we don't get lovely fluffy snow - we get ice pellets that come down and cut your face before freezing to the sidewalk. It's a frick of a lot colder here than where I grew up in Vancouver. Merino sheep have merino coats. They don't need a barn, just a windbreak.

VSB could herd guinea pigs.

I found a video of a Chihuahua herding cows.  ;-)  Maybe the AKC should move them from Toy to Working Group?  ;-)

AGAM, you do remember that those of us east of the Rockies know that Vancouverites don't have "Canadian winters".  Although your winters sound reasonably harsh.  I think the issue for local breeders here is depth of snow and degree of cold.  There is no forage and there are coyotes.  If a coyote will attack a newaper delivery guy, think what several of them could do to a sheep.  Barns are safer.

Haha, yes, Vancouver gets a relatively mild winter compared to some. It's much colder here, although we get less snow.

How exactly do you keep 3000 sheep in a barn, even some of those drive through ones? That would be a flock size on a reasonable farm, that might also be 2000 hectares of pretty steep country. We don't have any wild canines, but farmers would still have mustered the sheep to lower ground, and would have to feed out over winter. Farming is certainly very different here, compared to Canada, but it's not because we have mild temperatures and wonderful green rolling hills year around! Very small scale breeders of rare breeds, especially those based in Marlborough, are not really representative of the average kiwi sheep farmer. Farming is goddamn tough everywhere on the planet, I think.

You seem to have come away with a slightly rose tinted view of NZ, which is kind of cute, but it isn't fact. We have all the same issues that everywhere else has, to some extent. We're also a very small economy a very long way from anywhere else, and it can be tough to live here. Don't buy into the Hobbiton hype!

Sibley

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2020, 02:11:14 PM »
You seem to have come away with a slightly rose tinted view of NZ, which is kind of cute, but it isn't fact. We have all the same issues that everywhere else has, to some extent. We're also a very small economy a very long way from anywhere else, and it can be tough to live here. Don't buy into the Hobbiton hype!

What people don't think about is the Hobbits worked HARD. Yeah, they ate constantly, but they also worked constantly.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2020, 02:35:40 PM »

Haha, yes, Vancouver gets a relatively mild winter compared to some. It's much colder here, although we get less snow.

How exactly do you keep 3000 sheep in a barn, even some of those drive through ones? That would be a flock size on a reasonable farm, that might also be 2000 hectares of pretty steep country. We don't have any wild canines, but farmers would still have mustered the sheep to lower ground, and would have to feed out over winter. Farming is certainly very different here, compared to Canada, but it's not because we have mild temperatures and wonderful green rolling hills year around! Very small scale breeders of rare breeds, especially those based in Marlborough, are not really representative of the average kiwi sheep farmer. Farming is goddamn tough everywhere on the planet, I think.

You seem to have come away with a slightly rose tinted view of NZ, which is kind of cute, but it isn't fact. We have all the same issues that everywhere else has, to some extent. We're also a very small economy a very long way from anywhere else, and it can be tough to live here. Don't buy into the Hobbiton hype!

We don't have 3000 sheep on a farm.  Sheep are a marginal farm animal here.  Fleece prices often don't cover the cost of shearing, but fleeces from meat sheep are junk anyways.  I have a friend who raises lambs for the Easter market, and she has cut her flock in half because the money from turning pasture into crop land is better, even with all the work of putting in field corn or soy.  I spent the last 10 years in farm country.

I spent most of the 3 months with my friend, basically living instead of touristing a good part of the time, so I did see lots of regular Kiwi life.  I hung out with fleece hobbists because I was at Majacraft camp.  I saw prices at the grocery store and hardware store.  Visitors always end up a bit with rose tinted glasses.

If you want to keep the NZ discussion going, let's stop hijacking TGS's thread, come over to my journal
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/living-the-urban-life/350/
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 03:58:37 PM by RetiredAt63 »

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Talk me out of getting a second hellbeast
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2020, 09:37:26 PM »

Haha, yes, Vancouver gets a relatively mild winter compared to some. It's much colder here, although we get less snow.

How exactly do you keep 3000 sheep in a barn, even some of those drive through ones? That would be a flock size on a reasonable farm, that might also be 2000 hectares of pretty steep country. We don't have any wild canines, but farmers would still have mustered the sheep to lower ground, and would have to feed out over winter. Farming is certainly very different here, compared to Canada, but it's not because we have mild temperatures and wonderful green rolling hills year around! Very small scale breeders of rare breeds, especially those based in Marlborough, are not really representative of the average kiwi sheep farmer. Farming is goddamn tough everywhere on the planet, I think.

You seem to have come away with a slightly rose tinted view of NZ, which is kind of cute, but it isn't fact. We have all the same issues that everywhere else has, to some extent. We're also a very small economy a very long way from anywhere else, and it can be tough to live here. Don't buy into the Hobbiton hype!

We don't have 3000 sheep on a farm.  Sheep are a marginal farm animal here.  Fleece prices often don't cover the cost of shearing, but fleeces from meat sheep are junk anyways.  I have a friend who raises lambs for the Easter market, and she has cut her flock in half because the money from turning pasture into crop land is better, even with all the work of putting in field corn or soy.  I spent the last 10 years in farm country.

I spent most of the 3 months with my friend, basically living instead of touristing a good part of the time, so I did see lots of regular Kiwi life.  I hung out with fleece hobbists because I was at Majacraft camp.  I saw prices at the grocery store and hardware store.  Visitors always end up a bit with rose tinted glasses.

If you want to keep the NZ discussion going, let's stop hijacking TGS's thread, come over to my journal
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/journals/living-the-urban-life/350/

Haha, yes, hijacking!