Author Topic: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?  (Read 24077 times)

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #100 on: July 01, 2017, 10:43:19 AM »
As a group, teachers seem below the bellcurve with financial literacy. I'm not sure why that should be; it's counter-intuitive, but I've heard more than enough stories by now to be certain of it.
I'm in Canada, where teachers are both very well compensated and fairly well insulated from the realities of the private labour market. Perhaps the all the goodies - excellent benefits, defined benefits pension, exceptional time off - has jaded them somewhat to the need to be aware of finances. Perhaps its something else.

I do know that here every teacher can elect to be paid their salary over the summer, so there is no need for cash-loan scams.

Canada seems to be a pretty amazing place. From what I read from Canadian folks posting on this forum, you guys don't really seem to have to worry about much financially. Teachers in the USA are notoriously poorly compensated. That's why the stereotype is that people who go into teaching only do so because they can't get another (better) job.


I'm in Canada too, and both of my parents are teachers. I assume you're talking about modern teachers, or teachers somewhere else, because here our teachers (in the province) didn't get health/dental insurance until I was grown up and moved out, and defined pension plans went the way of the dodo back around 1980. The 'exceptional time off' is, of course, unpaid, and only recently have there been programs that will pay out over the 12 months - teachers had to do it themselves before that.  I do agree, however, that they seem to be generally below the bell curve on financial literacy, but I don't think their benefits are the reason. I think possibly it's because so many of them are idealists (I've observed that teaching attracts a particular kind of person - just generally, not every single one of them).

I'm talking about modern day BC teachers. I have several in my family. They have DB pensions and health benefits that, in private industry, you would have to be upper management in a very large company to expect to receive. If at all.

MrsPete

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #101 on: July 04, 2017, 02:58:29 PM »
Assuming you had started your career with all the financial knowledge you have today, do you think you could have secured a better retirement if you had been allowed to opt out of the pension and contribute the same amount of money in a tax-advantaged account instead?

Where do you think the tenure breakeven point lies, one way or the other?
Without knowing how many years I'll live, it's impossible to say, "Here.  This is the break-even point for my pension." 

However, to take a stab at answering your question, I think I personally am better off having the pension.  Why?  Because the women in my family tend to live between 95-100 years.  I have been blessed with very good health, and I take good care of myself.  My expectation is that I'll live past 100.  I anticipate living long enough that I will collect everything I put into the pension system ... and more.  If I were suddenly back in my 20s with the same salary /no pension program, I would have needed to invest more money each month to feel comfortable about my retirement ... and I have been investing in addition to my pension ... my intention has always been to retire with a full pension, additional savings, Social Security and a paid-for house; with those four items, I feel secure.   

On the other hand, I've known a couple teachers who've retired and lived only a couple years.  Clearly they lost the lottery (and it's possible I will do the same). 

To take the conversation in a different direction though, I think my pension has been a negative for my husband's career.  He twice opted to pass up good job opportunities because they were out of state, and we judged that it was better for the family to keep me here /working towards the full pension in our home state.  In all fairness, it's tougher for a two-career family because you have twice as many career decisions to make. 

MrsPete

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #102 on: July 04, 2017, 03:09:16 PM »
I'm talking about modern day BC teachers. I have several in my family. They have DB pensions and health benefits that, in private industry, you would have to be upper management in a very large company to expect to receive. If at all.
Whereas I'm paying 15% of my gross salary for high-deductible health insurance /no eye care and dental for three people.  Clearly things aren't the same everywhere. 

As a group, teachers seem below the bellcurve with financial literacy...

I do know that here every teacher can elect to be paid their salary over the summer, so there is no need for cash-loan scams.
I'd say teachers are split in half; about half are expect money managers ... and the other half aren't. 

Our state determined about a decade ago that the concept of "cutting your salary pie into 12 pieces instead of 10" was wrong, and it's not available to us. 

nobody123

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #103 on: July 05, 2017, 07:35:08 AM »
<snip>
To take the conversation in a different direction though, I think my pension has been a negative for my husband's career.  He twice opted to pass up good job opportunities because they were out of state, and we judged that it was better for the family to keep me here /working towards the full pension in our home state.  In all fairness, it's tougher for a two-career family because you have twice as many career decisions to make.

That's an interesting statement.  Obviously you and your husband ran the calculations and figured that two smaller teacher pensions with increased personal retirement savings from his new job were not as good as one bigger pension, especially given your family longevity.  Logically you made the correct decision for your family, and I applaud the teamwork you two exhibited.  However, is there a bit of resentment from your husband that his career is being held back or whatnot because of the parameters of your (presumably) lower-paid job?  I've been in similar situations where my career progression has been stunted because of my lack of mobility due to family reasons, so I'm legitimately curious about your thought process.

MrsPete

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #104 on: July 05, 2017, 04:44:31 PM »
<snip>
To take the conversation in a different direction though, I think my pension has been a negative for my husband's career.  He twice opted to pass up good job opportunities because they were out of state, and we judged that it was better for the family to keep me here /working towards the full pension in our home state.  In all fairness, it's tougher for a two-career family because you have twice as many career decisions to make.

That's an interesting statement.  Obviously you and your husband ran the calculations and figured that two smaller teacher pensions with increased personal retirement savings from his new job were not as good as one bigger pension, especially given your family longevity.  Logically you made the correct decision for your family, and I applaud the teamwork you two exhibited.  However, is there a bit of resentment from your husband that his career is being held back or whatnot because of the parameters of your (presumably) lower-paid job?  I've been in similar situations where my career progression has been stunted because of my lack of mobility due to family reasons, so I'm legitimately curious about your thought process.
No, no resentment.  Both times we looked at the options available to us as a team, and we made the decisions together.  Each time we approached it without emotion, asking how a move vs. a stay would affect me ... would affect him ... would affect the kids.  We considered the implications of selling the house, of probable career opportunities, of leaving family behind. 

nobody123

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #105 on: July 06, 2017, 09:22:44 AM »
<snip>
To take the conversation in a different direction though, I think my pension has been a negative for my husband's career.  He twice opted to pass up good job opportunities because they were out of state, and we judged that it was better for the family to keep me here /working towards the full pension in our home state.  In all fairness, it's tougher for a two-career family because you have twice as many career decisions to make.

That's an interesting statement.  Obviously you and your husband ran the calculations and figured that two smaller teacher pensions with increased personal retirement savings from his new job were not as good as one bigger pension, especially given your family longevity.  Logically you made the correct decision for your family, and I applaud the teamwork you two exhibited.  However, is there a bit of resentment from your husband that his career is being held back or whatnot because of the parameters of your (presumably) lower-paid job?  I've been in similar situations where my career progression has been stunted because of my lack of mobility due to family reasons, so I'm legitimately curious about your thought process.
No, no resentment.  Both times we looked at the options available to us as a team, and we made the decisions together.  Each time we approached it without emotion, asking how a move vs. a stay would affect me ... would affect him ... would affect the kids.  We considered the implications of selling the house, of probable career opportunities, of leaving family behind.

It's great to see an example of thorough communication.  I struggle at times evaluating the non-financial things career-wise, especially when it is part of a "more" vs. "enough" comparision.

Acastus

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #106 on: July 06, 2017, 10:50:48 AM »
At least in the great state of New York, teachers do pretty well. Starting salary with no experience is 54k and most teachers in my district make 70-80k. This is upstate, not near The City (there is only one). Pensions average 67k, so that equates to a 1.7 million 'stash, or a 1+ million annutiy.

http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/246255/ny-teacher-pensions-averaged-67500-last-year/

Paul der Krake

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #107 on: July 06, 2017, 01:11:58 PM »
I can't imagine being tied to the same location. Everybody has a price of course, but about half of my adult life in the same job in the same US state would require a hell of a lot more than 67k/year.

MrsPete

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #108 on: July 10, 2017, 08:21:31 AM »
At least in the great state of New York, teachers do pretty well. Starting salary with no experience is 54k and most teachers in my district make 70-80k. This is upstate, not near The City (there is only one). Pensions average 67k, so that equates to a 1.7 million 'stash, or a 1+ million annutiy.

http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/246255/ny-teacher-pensions-averaged-67500-last-year/
Yes, teachers in the NorthEast are highly paid.  They are also unionized and have low turn-over.  They are the exception, not the rule. 

WhiteTrashCash

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Re: Summer is Coming, Can You Hear the Teachers Panic?
« Reply #109 on: July 10, 2017, 10:55:49 AM »
At least in the great state of New York, teachers do pretty well. Starting salary with no experience is 54k and most teachers in my district make 70-80k. This is upstate, not near The City (there is only one). Pensions average 67k, so that equates to a 1.7 million 'stash, or a 1+ million annutiy.

http://blog.timesunion.com/capitol/archives/246255/ny-teacher-pensions-averaged-67500-last-year/
Yes, teachers in the NorthEast are highly paid.  They are also unionized and have low turn-over.  They are the exception, not the rule.

Compare that to places like North Carolina or Oklahoma where you are better paid as a McDonald's manager than as a teacher. And they wonder why people don't want to do the job and why the generation graduating from high school is full of morons.