Author Topic: Students go to fake school; are shocked they still have to repay student loans  (Read 16093 times)

frugalnacho

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I actually do not believe that education should be restricted at all by the financial situation of a student (or realistically, their parents).

So yeah, if they have the academic ability to go to a flagship university, they deserve to be there. 

Education is one of the biggest factors in social mobility.  I don't know about you, but I'd really like to see the US move towards meritocracy, not the plutocracy we've been sliding further and further into.

I disagree with you.  Everyone deserves an education, but I don't see why everyone deserves the most expensive education possible.  Not everyone needs the educational equivalent to an iphone 6 unlimited data plan, especially when there are cheaper comparable options out there.  I'm pretty sure the math and thermodynamics I learned at my accredited university is the same one taught at one of the states flagship engineering schools, but at only a fraction of the price.  Maybe I did deserve to go to the university of michigan engineering program, but I still understand the reality of the economics and didn't want to pay that inflated tuition.

paddedhat

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.
 

Your really aren't worth wasting too much time on, and your claim of "generalizing" is strange.  It's actually quite specific. The state university system in my state has a reputation for recruiting large numbers of minorities, from very poor performing inner-city school systems, with the full awareness that the vast majority will fail early in their careers. The fact that these hundreds of kids will bring in millions in grants and loan cash is the driving factor. That's it.

If you obsessed with some imaginary racism, or your need to be a giant dick, there is little that I, or any other responsible adult here, can do for you.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2015, 08:31:28 AM by paddedhat »

Luck12

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I disagree with you.  Everyone deserves an education, but I don't see why everyone deserves the most expensive education possible.  Not everyone needs the educational equivalent to an iphone 6 unlimited data plan, especially when there are cheaper comparable options out there.  I'm pretty sure the math and thermodynamics I learned at my accredited university is the same one taught at one of the states flagship engineering schools, but at only a fraction of the price.  Maybe I did deserve to go to the university of michigan engineering program, but I still understand the reality of the economics and didn't want to pay that inflated tuition.

You are forgetting about networking opportunities which are obviously much better if you go to say Yale than if you go to Southwest Arkansas State.   Not only that, but you learn a lot from being around other intelligent students.  Your thinking would result in only the upper middle class and above being able to take advantage of the best college education. 

If it weren't for Pell grants and generous other financial aid, I'm pretty sure I would be much further behind in my FIRE date.     

caliq

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I disagree with you.  Everyone deserves an education, but I don't see why everyone deserves the most expensive education possible.  Not everyone needs the educational equivalent to an iphone 6 unlimited data plan, especially when there are cheaper comparable options out there.  I'm pretty sure the math and thermodynamics I learned at my accredited university is the same one taught at one of the states flagship engineering schools, but at only a fraction of the price.  Maybe I did deserve to go to the university of michigan engineering program, but I still understand the reality of the economics and didn't want to pay that inflated tuition.

You are forgetting about networking opportunities which are obviously much better if you go to say Yale than if you go to Southwest Arkansas State.   Not only that, but you learn a lot from being around other intelligent students.  Your thinking would result in only the upper middle class and above being able to take advantage of the best college education. 

If it weren't for Pell grants and generous other financial aid, I'm pretty sure I would be much further behind in my FIRE date.     

+1

Also, there are way more research opportunities at flagship universities than smaller local state universities. 

I was at a tiny public college in another state with literally 6 professors in the entire Biology department; when I realized that I wanted to be a biologist, I transferred to my in-state flagship university, which has three biology DEPARTMENTS, each of which have 20+ professors.  Not to mention the attached medical school, with it's own 100+ faculty and labs, and the affiliation with a major genomics research company (another 100+ labs), and the larger related departments (chemistry, pharmacy, pathobiology, animal sci, nutrition, etc etc etc), all with at least 10 research faculty, and most with 20+. 

Sorry, but my biology education here is WORLDS above what I could have gotten at my old school.  And I firmly believe that everyone who is willing and able to do well in this environment deserves to be here.  I don't like the idea of having a scientific community made up of only upper middle class and rich people.  That sounds a lot like a way to introduce systemic bias...

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.

You're doing a lot of cherry picking for no good reason that I can see.

galliver

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.

You're doing a lot of cherry picking for no good reason that I can see.

>_< I apologize in advance for being pedantic:

Nit. Nitpicking. Cherry-picking is carefully choosing the best or most desirable. Nitpicking is focusing on minutiae.

/grammarnazi

Sofa King

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LOL!!!  :  )

paddedhat

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LOL!!!  :  )

 I mistakenly believed that this forum was populated with mature adults who enjoyed interesting discussions of relevant topics. Unfortunately, it appears that somewhere in an elementary school computer class, Sofa King found another site that should probably be blocked.

vivophoenix

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.

You're doing a lot of cherry picking for no good reason that I can see.

>_< I apologize in advance for being pedantic:

Nit. Nitpicking. Cherry-picking is carefully choosing the best or most desirable. Nitpicking is focusing on minutiae.

/grammarnazi

sounds like cherry picking  is the correct term then. he is cherry picking for things that best/most desirable point to highlight so that he might  amuse himself / support his focus on racism while ignoring the real point.

galliver

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.

You're doing a lot of cherry picking for no good reason that I can see.

>_< I apologize in advance for being pedantic:

Nit. Nitpicking. Cherry-picking is carefully choosing the best or most desirable. Nitpicking is focusing on minutiae.

/grammarnazi

sounds like cherry picking  is the correct term then. he is cherry picking for things that best/most desirable point to highlight so that he might  amuse himself / support his focus on racism while ignoring the real point.
....which is called nitpicking. Although you could define/describe it like that, sure.

vivophoenix

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.

You're doing a lot of cherry picking for no good reason that I can see.

>_< I apologize in advance for being pedantic:

Nit. Nitpicking. Cherry-picking is carefully choosing the best or most desirable. Nitpicking is focusing on minutiae.

/grammarnazi

sounds like cherry picking  is the correct term then. he is cherry picking for things that best/most desirable point to highlight so that he might  amuse himself / support his focus on racism while ignoring the real point.
....which is called nitpicking. Although you could define/describe it like that, sure.

i think what you are doing is nitpicking,  this has nothing to do with anything at all.

the other still pertains to the argument; however,  in a different vein.

Aushin

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the bottom line is government and schools and working together and the students have no recourse.

Yes they do. They can go to a school they can afford. No one is forcing them to take out these loans with these terms. Stupidity is not an excuse.

So your suggestion is to cash flow college? 

At my state's minimum wage of $8.70/hr, working 40 hours a week 52 weeks a year gets you a gross income of $18,096.

It's not as simple as 'go to a school you can afford.'

Yes it is. Go to school part time and get a better job or work 2 jobs. There ARE people who do this. No one said it would be easy, if it were easy everyone would be doing it.  Or even better be smart enough to know what you are getting into when you take out a school loan.  I have ZERO sympathy for all these cry babies who bitch about having to pay back loans that they agreed to the terms when they signed on the dotted line. These idiots think they wont have to pay up will have ther social security garnished!  LOL!!!

Seems like this community is made of cool people trying to escape the rat race and self-righteous Schadenfreude-addicted asshats.

I have a feeling you have ZERO sympathy for most people in most bad situations.  What a shitty worldview.

sheepstache

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 Doesn't matter at all if it is a public system scamming poor Hispanics in the southwest, or another that does it in a northeastern city full of African Americans.

First you say "Blacks" now you say "African Americans".  LOL!!!!  Also you sure do alot of generalizing of minorities.

You're doing a lot of cherry picking for no good reason that I can see.

>_< I apologize in advance for being pedantic:

Nit. Nitpicking. Cherry-picking is carefully choosing the best or most desirable. Nitpicking is focusing on minutiae.

/grammarnazi

sounds like cherry picking  is the correct term then. he is cherry picking for things that best/most desirable point to highlight so that he might  amuse himself / support his focus on racism while ignoring the real point.
....which is called nitpicking. Although you could define/describe it like that, sure.

i think what you are doing is nitpicking,  this has nothing to do with anything at all.

the other still pertains to the argument; however,  in a different vein.

Yes, that's a key difference, nitpicking is focusing on irrelevant detail. Whereas cherry-picking involves picking and choosing among things that are on the same level, and overall understanding the big picture. And in your previous point you agreed that the focus on racism was ignoring the main point. Also, galliver already acknowledged that their point was pedantic. So you seem to just be arguing for the sake of arguing. Not that I have a problem with that.

arebelspy

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MOD NOTE: Get back on topic.  Or start a new one in the OT section to discuss cherries vs. nits.  As always, keep in mind forum rule #1.
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Sibley

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If the schools were fake, can't they just pay them back with fake money?

LOL

SpicyMcHaggus

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Seems like we have been over this before, it's quite obvious why they can't be discharged in bankruptcy. Students would just start declaring bankruptcy the day after graduation. They have little to no money, and massive debt, bankruptcy would be the obvious thing to do other than any moral obligation they may feel. So nobody would lend money based on that risk other than the government, and the government would quickly be overrun by the demand for loans that would never be paid back.

James, I like your well reasoned posts, so I am simply posing this as a debate query: "...So then what happens?"  If the schools won't loan the money they would be on the hook for, what does the "invisible hand" do next?  Universities have been around for hundreds of years, yet major student debt did not occur until as recently as the late 90's?  What course change might a university consider if they could no longer afford their students instead of the other way around?

(as a point of reference, my 4 year UG experience in state at State U came out to $13,500- tuition, books, R&B- (not the beer) - in mid 70's $$$.   I could not get a CC, was largely considered a "poor college student" and had neither a sushi bar option or a climbing wall)

 

I did my 4 yr BS degree in computer science for ~ $17,500 total books,tuition, etc.  in 2011. With not $1 in debt.
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