Author Topic: Student Loan Fugitives  (Read 11498 times)

zephyr911

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Student Loan Fugitives
« on: January 17, 2016, 08:48:31 PM »
Herein, expats fleeing voluntarily incurred obligations offer inarticulate excuses for their delinquency.

OvertheRainbow

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2016, 11:07:40 PM »
Their entitlement and lack of integrity disgusts me. I almost feel bad for the parents. But then I remember that they were the ones who raised them.

Making Cookies

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2016, 01:08:26 AM »
Brian, whose face is blurred - along with his dog's...

You know some of these people could have done what many people I knew earlier in my life: join the military for a few years. Several of the officers I worked for along the way were paying for college by giving back several years of service.

I recognize that these fugitives from debt would probably think they were too good for an idea like that.

Another option: work your backside off here or overseas plain and simple and pay back the loans!

I have often heard people suggest that we should have student loan forgiveness or free tuition.

If school was free or student loans were forgiven: how do we as a society keep people from taking a four year vacation in college without ever really intending to do something with their chosen topic of education that may or may not be useless?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 01:24:14 AM by Jethrosnose »

meg_shannon

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2016, 01:46:49 AM »
Stanford just increased their wealth/income limit for free reduced tuition. If you've got the skills/grades and your family doesn't have a lot, some of the Ivies can be a good choice because they give out a lot of need based aid.
http://thinkprogress.org/education/2015/04/02/3642085/stanford-free-tuition/

Otherwise, WTF. I worked my ass off to pay for school, my husband's father paid for his, my sister and many friends took out loans (and many complain too much I think), but planned defaulting?

LPeters

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2016, 02:02:25 AM »
Quote from: wat
Sometimes I think living in New York City and going to a private university maybe wasn't the best idea. I could have gone somewhere else and gotten a political science or history degree and only been in $50,000 dollars worth of debt. But I'm happy that I got that education. It's the education I wanted.

What. The. Hell?

LPeters

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2016, 02:11:31 AM »
I just-

The whole reason I haven't gone to college is because I'm poor as hell, had shit grades, and I refuse to take on debt I that I don't know I can pay back-

how- how could anyone make a promise, sign your name, your NAME, to something while know you have no intention to keep that promise? I don't understand-

I mean, I'm a lot of things, I can be lazy and asshole-ish and rude, but I never, EVER, break my word. I don't make promises I can't keep, I don't take on debt I can't pay back-

Did they just miss that day of kindergarten or something???

syednaeemul

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2016, 03:58:17 AM »
The article is missing one piece of critical information for each debt refugee - their current occupation. One doesn't need a political science degree to waitress!

Captain and Mrs Slow

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 06:19:44 AM »
There is no question that there is something wrong in America the rise of Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders (oh how I hope he kicks Hilaries butt) but I don't think could have found a more unsympathetic group of people wow!

cburton103

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2016, 08:36:50 AM »
That article almost sounds like a satire. Can people really be that irresponsible and be ok talking about it?

Gondolin

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2016, 08:45:07 AM »
Wowza. What a bunch of entitled martyrs.

Still, good clickbait work by the author. Are these poor victims of a broken education system or vampire leeches draining US tax payers? You decide!

Also, I'm not sure how much of this is real. There are several numerical and chronological mistakes that indicate that these stories may be composites from many people (or just made up).

Ipodius

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http://www.vice.com/read/talking-to-american-debt-dodgers-who-moved-to-europe-to-avoid-paying-off-their-student-loans-111

Possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read in years:

"I think at this point I owe about $40,000. I really, truly, honestly don't want to pay it back. Sure, I realize the responsibility I took on when I signed the papers and agreed to take out the loans, but I should have never had to do it in the first place. I feel some sort of civic duty not to pay them back, as if my small protest will make any kind of difference."

Apples

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2016, 12:55:01 PM »
It's really surprising how little they know about how loans work.  With the IBR and PAYE payment systems, no one would be sacrificing food and shelter to pay their monster student loan payments every month, like one guy said he was facing.  I'm in my mid 20's and have several younger friends graduating college and/or grad school now, and the first thing I tell them is to figure out what their payment is going to be on the normal repayment schedule.  If that doesn't work for them (because it's huge and they're making $25,000 a year in a temp job while they're still looking for work, for example) CALL THE COMPANY the loan is from.  You can get forbearance, you can choose a different payment plan, you can make it work.  Don't do stupid things like this, or like "missing" a month or "paying half"...that's not how loans work.

And going on a tangent...it is amazing how many of my friends can't math their loans.  Yes, I'm using the noun math as a verb intentionally.  These are people who have done calculus and really have their acts together, yet two examples:  1.  Girl consolidates her loans to get one monthly payment, which is lower.  That's good.  Thinks she's still on the 10-year repayment plan.  Documents show her interest rate is still the same.  Thinks nothing is weird.  1 year later figures out she is actually on the 25-year repayment schedule, and the monthly payment to pay them off in 10 years is the same as the previous little payments added together.  Is irritated with the consolidation company for "not telling her".  Fortunately girl is responsible and is making more than the 10-year plan payment every month now that her wedding is done anyway.  2.  Boy graduates undergrad but goes to grad school, taking out more loans.  He takes an interest in figuring out a ballpark of what his monthly payment will be.  Also wonders how extra payments will affect the payoff rate.  My eyes light up in excel glee :p  He says he's heard that you start with payments only going to like a third for principal and 2/3 for interest.  But he has a cousin who got a deal worked with the bank so eventually it flipped and 2/3 went to principal and 1/3 to interest until they were paid off.  I quickly explained how interest rates work, how it accumulates daily (though for an example I used monthly), and that when you send a payment in the money first goes to interest then the rest to principal.  When there's less principal, there's less interest accumulated.  He really thought it was a "deal" you did with the bank to pay them off faster.  These people....they can't seem to math their loans.  It's not hard!

enb123

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Wow.  That's a whole lot of bad decisions in a row.

Cookie78

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Ha.

I was expecting $200k or something more overwhelming.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2016, 01:21:13 PM »
or vampire leeches draining US tax payers? You decide!
Does the US government recompense us immigrants for the expensive education that our foreign socialist governments paid for ?

Scandium

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2016, 02:54:40 PM »
I have often heard people suggest that we should have student loan forgiveness or free tuition.

If school was free or student loans were forgiven: how do we as a society keep people from taking a four year vacation in college without ever really intending to do something with their chosen topic of education that may or may not be useless?

I went to school in a country with "free" (i.e paid by others) college. Still needed a loan to pay for living expenses. So you end up with something like $30k in debt, or more depending on how long you take. Granted a government loan so low rate and good terms.

That is about the same or even less than the average debt at graduation in the US so I don't understand what the whining is about. Is $20-30k really such a massive burden?

Would room and board also be included in "free"  college? (it isn't in the socialist dreamland these people refer to so...)
« Last Edit: January 18, 2016, 02:56:36 PM by Scandium »

nobodyspecial

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2016, 03:10:36 PM »
I have often heard people suggest that we should have student loan forgiveness or free tuition.

If school was free or student loans were forgiven: how do we as a society keep people from taking a four year vacation in college without ever really intending to do something with their chosen topic of education that may or may not be useless?
You limit the available places and courses. Ratio of  mech-eng to media studies places
You make entry competitive on grades.
You throw people out that don't maintain a high enough exam/course work performance

Sofa King

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2016, 04:19:47 PM »
Have to laugh at the people on this thread who say "ignorance IS an excuse" http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/hard-to-feel-sorry-for-these-people/

AH013

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2016, 07:52:55 AM »
Sonny LoSpecchio nailed it.  We're getting off easy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAuSTQUa3tM

They know they can't come back here.  The way I look at it, for ~$30k/each we're getting rid of entitled leeches for the rest of their lives.  That's roughly 2 years of average government benefits.  For people who think what they earn is purely for acquiring pets, or stamping on tattoos, or buying half a dozen pairs of plain white sneakers or any of the other dumb crap I see the people in those photos wasting their money on while screaming "to pay back my loans that I signed for they want steal the money I'd use to pay for shelter or food!!!"  I'd gladly this nation incur a $30k write off for any louse who don't want to contribute to this society and just wants to mooch off the hard work of others.  Much better than government life support for 30+ years for someone who wants to contribute nothing and is going to instill those same lazy values in their offspring to repeat the cycle.

Seriously.  Sign here, forfeit your citizenship and right to be in this country and receive any future benefits, and I'll be glad to add your student debt to the $18.9T we've already got.  You can go be some other country's problem.

goosefraba1

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2016, 08:27:06 AM »
I took on student debt... and a lot of it. However, I went to school to become a professional that makes enough money to pay back that debt. I have 160k in student loans varying from 6 to 8 percent. I currently make 110k/yr base salary... with between 40 and 60k in bonuses. Now having said that, I will try to get out of my student loans through any means possible. That is my right... and the same right that any of these bums could use. I currently work for a non profit as a healthcare provider. After 10 years of paying on IBR, the remainder of my loans and interest are forgiven-saving me lots of money!

What we need to be doing is teaching kids in high school a basic 21st century survival course. What profession to lean towards. How to deal with debt. How to balance a checkbook, cook, clean, change a spare tire.

randymarsh

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2016, 08:43:49 AM »
There are so many actual issues with the state of college finance and Vox finds these idiots to make that point? Ugh.

I do have some sympathy for people who borrowed too much money and can't get a decent paying job, but most of these people owe less than a brand new mainstream car.

I would not be surprised if the US starts revoking passports for people with loans in default.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2016, 09:59:46 AM »
What we need to be doing is teaching kids in high school a basic 21st century survival course.
Instead we teach them a 1950s survival course = go to college and you are set for life with a nice office job, don't go to college and you will be digging ditches.
Then we add in a 1960s spin = go to college and follow your dreams ie. you can always get an office job if the acting doesn't work out.

jinga nation

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2016, 10:06:00 AM »
Put them on the No-Fly list. They're a bunch of entitled brats who expected to go to college/university without a scholarship, grant or via the military option.
Pay your bills, deadbeats!
TSA love you long time when you try to come back to the USA. It'll be a merry homecoming, white glove treatment.

shotgunwilly

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2016, 11:14:46 AM »
Let them leave.  And if they ever want to come back make them pay an arm and a leg to get back in. Literally. We take one of their arms and one of their legs. They can pick which one.

TheAnonOne

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2016, 11:40:02 AM »
Obviously people here have reasons to be angry, though I wasn't expecting the shear outrage.

I think the article was exaggerating the issue a bit. This debt will never go away, and if it's worth 30k to them to never access the USA again.... I guess, whatever floats your boat. Just know that, 20 years later when you do come back, that 30k will be 200k.

I prefer to not be locked out of large portions of the world myself.

Helvegen

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Ha.

I was expecting $200k or something more overwhelming.

Yeah, I don't really understand fleeing the country over $35k. Ironic thing is with the still slightly favorable exchange rate, they could pay it off quicker without even trying.

Jack

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2016, 04:25:44 PM »
There are so many actual issues with the state of college finance and Vox finds these idiots to make that point? Ugh.

Maybe Vox did it on purpose, and disgust is what they intended for you to feel.

mm1970

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http://www.vice.com/read/talking-to-american-debt-dodgers-who-moved-to-europe-to-avoid-paying-off-their-student-loans-111

Possibly the most ridiculous thing I have read in years:

"I think at this point I owe about $40,000. I really, truly, honestly don't want to pay it back. Sure, I realize the responsibility I took on when I signed the papers and agreed to take out the loans, but I should have never had to do it in the first place. I feel some sort of civic duty not to pay them back, as if my small protest will make any kind of difference."
+1

Matumba

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2016, 04:50:49 PM »
Idiots.  If you're going to default and move abroad,  go to town,  get like 500k or more worth of loans,  student and/or otherwise.  Don't get your parents to cosign on them either.

None of these fools did it right. 

Most left to escape like 40k loan which they would be able to repay in a couple of years of less on the difference between us and European salaries.

The only one who git $160 k debt -  still not worth running away from,  but at least it's pretty substantial -  was stupid enough to let his parents cosign.


mm1970

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2016, 04:50:56 PM »
Have to laugh at the people on this thread who say "ignorance IS an excuse" http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/hard-to-feel-sorry-for-these-people/

Definition of ignorance: lack of knowledge or information

In the absence of education (knowledge or information) on the specifics of:
1. How student loans work (interest rates, terms, % that goes to interest vs. principal, how pre-payment works)
2. Total cost to obtain a degree at various universities (room and board, fees, books, lab fees)
3. Typical starting salary for a particular degree AND placement percentages (often inflated by the universities.  This information is available.  You have to know where to look for it.  You have to KNOW, oh there it is, that pesky KNOWLEDGE word again).

then yes, being "ignorant" is certainly explainable.

We are talking about teenagers.
Teenagers who, almost certainly, never took a personal finance class.
I'm also fairly certain that most high schools don't cover "college loans" and how they work.
How many 18 year olds know what they want to do?
How many teenagers have parents who did not attend college? 

You see, parents who attended college, well - they have an in. Especially if they borrowed money - they know how it works.
If you happen to be the first generation to attend college - where do you get this information, or knowledge?  Oh, there it is, that pesky word again.
We tell teenagers to study hard, get good grades, go to college, and it will be "all right".

Go ahead and laugh, but it's not funny.

expatartist

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #30 on: January 19, 2016, 05:11:10 PM »
A 20-something colleague and her husband considered just staying out of the US for good and not paying their loans. Ashamed to say they were in the same [arts] industry. Now they seem more realistic after homesickness is kicking in, but I couldn't believe the entitlement - she actually said, "We shouldn't have to pay it back."

expatartist

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #31 on: January 19, 2016, 05:12:48 PM »
[quote author=mm1970 link=topic=49605.msg944298#msg944298

Definition of ignorance: lack of knowledge or information

In the absence of education (knowledge or information) on the specifics of:
1. How student loans work (interest rates, terms, % that goes to interest vs. principal, how pre-payment works)
2. Total cost to obtain a degree at various universities (room and board, fees, books, lab fees)
3. Typical starting salary for a particular degree AND placement percentages (often inflated by the universities.  This information is available.  You have to know where to look for it.  You have to KNOW, oh there it is, that pesky KNOWLEDGE word again).

then yes, being "ignorant" is certainly explainable.

We are talking about teenagers.
Teenagers who, almost certainly, never took a personal finance class.
I'm also fairly certain that most high schools don't cover "college loans" and how they work.
How many 18 year olds know what they want to do?
How many teenagers have parents who did not attend college? 

You see, parents who attended college, well - they have an in. Especially if they borrowed money - they know how it works.
If you happen to be the first generation to attend college - where do you get this information, or knowledge?  Oh, there it is, that pesky word again.
We tell teenagers to study hard, get good grades, go to college, and it will be "all right".

Go ahead and laugh, but it's not funny.
[/quote]

Good point. My colleague was the first in her family to go to university. But ignorance is no excuse for defaulting.

KodeBlue

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2016, 05:24:02 PM »
I feel the same way about car loans. I financed a car because I needed transportation. Since it's a need I shoudn't really have to pay it back, right?

Sofa King

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2016, 05:41:45 PM »
ignorance is no excuse for defaulting.

I concur!

Magilla

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2016, 09:46:40 PM »
Have to laugh at the people on this thread who say "ignorance IS an excuse" http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/hard-to-feel-sorry-for-these-people/

Definition of ignorance: lack of knowledge or information

In the absence of education (knowledge or information) on the specifics of:
1. How student loans work (interest rates, terms, % that goes to interest vs. principal, how pre-payment works)
2. Total cost to obtain a degree at various universities (room and board, fees, books, lab fees)
3. Typical starting salary for a particular degree AND placement percentages (often inflated by the universities.  This information is available.  You have to know where to look for it.  You have to KNOW, oh there it is, that pesky KNOWLEDGE word again).

then yes, being "ignorant" is certainly explainable.

We are talking about teenagers.
Teenagers who, almost certainly, never took a personal finance class.
I'm also fairly certain that most high schools don't cover "college loans" and how they work.
How many 18 year olds know what they want to do?
How many teenagers have parents who did not attend college? 

You see, parents who attended college, well - they have an in. Especially if they borrowed money - they know how it works.
If you happen to be the first generation to attend college - where do you get this information, or knowledge?  Oh, there it is, that pesky word again.
We tell teenagers to study hard, get good grades, go to college, and it will be "all right".

Go ahead and laugh, but it's not funny.

Amazingly there is a well known cure for ignorance.  It's called learning and doing research.  When I went to college I went and checked out books from the library about financial aid, scholarships etc.  All the test prep type books (Barron's etc) had one and they were actually pretty easy to read.  Now you don't even have to do that, I'm sure you can find tons of websites with even better information.  All you need is a little initiative and desire.

It's amazing how kids these days can't read a book about financing or going to college or the bazillion web pages on the subject but they can spend days reading every single stupid post on their Facebook and Twitter accounts.

I think you're confusing ignorance with laziness, and laziness is never an excuse.

That being said, I agree that there is far too much emphasis on *everyone* going to college even when it doesn't make sense.  And also counselors and staff in most high schools are often far too unprepared to teach kids about what they need to do to succeed in college and also pay for it.  I think that there should be a mandatory class about what it takes to pay for college and succeed in college.  Of course, the same people that think everyone needs to go to college would probably complain that class would discourage all the special snowflakes from reaching for their *dreams*...

mm1970

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2016, 11:22:11 AM »
Quote
But ignorance is no excuse for defaulting.
Assuming you can pay for it, I absolutely agree.

In some cases, you really can't.  I'd argue these are few and far between, but I don't really know.

mm1970

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2016, 11:24:36 AM »
Quote
It's called learning and doing research.

Yes, and this needs to be TAUGHT.

What is law school but learning how to research?  Or for that matter, scientific investigation, engineering, etc.

Much of college is all about that ... how to do RESEARCH.

But high school?  I don't remember being taught how to research much in high school.

If you are learning "how to research loans, scholarship, etc." in college - it's too late.

No Name Guy

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2016, 01:07:10 PM »
Quote
It's called learning and doing research.

Yes, and this needs to be TAUGHT.

What is law school but learning how to research?  Or for that matter, scientific investigation, engineering, etc.

Much of college is all about that ... how to do RESEARCH.

But high school?  I don't remember being taught how to research much in high school.

If you are learning "how to research loans, scholarship, etc." in college - it's too late.

Hmmm....my 10 year old nephew knows how to Google things.  Figure that.....and he didn't go to high school to unlearn this basic means to research things.

bb11

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2016, 01:08:59 PM »
Quote
If school was free or student loans were forgiven: how do we as a society keep people from taking a four year vacation in college without ever really intending to do something with their chosen topic of education that may or may not be useless?

How would it be a vacation? Only tuition gets paid for, not all living expenses. So it's not any cheaper for a potential student to go to college than actually working and making money, but one route they get paid and the other they don't. This alone would prevent most people from using college for a "vacation".


The whole idea of "debt dodging" is pretty stupid. Having said that, I think it's pretty obvious that tax-payer funded college is a better solution than mass student indebtedness and in some cases lack of opportunity because you're not from a wealthier family.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2016, 01:14:12 PM »
Quote
It's called learning and doing research.

Yes, and this needs to be TAUGHT.

What is law school but learning how to research?  Or for that matter, scientific investigation, engineering, etc.

Much of college is all about that ... how to do RESEARCH.

But high school?  I don't remember being taught how to research much in high school.

If you are learning "how to research loans, scholarship, etc." in college - it's too late.

Hmmm....my 10 year old nephew knows how to Google things.  Figure that.....and he didn't go to high school to unlearn this basic means to research things.

Indeed, and if you discuss what he reads with him, he most likely has the ability to consider the relative credibility of what he reads as well. Kids have a pretty good sense of when they're being spun. It's a skill lacking in many adults.

Magilla

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2016, 01:15:05 PM »
Quote
It's called learning and doing research.

Yes, and this needs to be TAUGHT.

What is law school but learning how to research?  Or for that matter, scientific investigation, engineering, etc.

Much of college is all about that ... how to do RESEARCH.

But high school?  I don't remember being taught how to research much in high school.

If you are learning "how to research loans, scholarship, etc." in college - it's too late.

Really?  You never did research papers or projects in high school?  As early as 9th grade I was assigned papers that required doing old fashioned library research, searching through library catalog, reference books etc.  You don't any more than basic skills to find the information you need.  What these kids are lacking is the motivation to do so.

Look, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't be doing a better job of motivating and incentivizing kids to be better informed about college and the financial choices associated with it, on the contrary.  But to claim that they are not responsible because of ignorance is a giant load of BS.  Not holding them responsible for their ignorance is probably what led to this in the first place.

zephyr911

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2016, 02:44:39 PM »
I did research in high school. Hell, I remember telling an English teacher that I liked research papers in jr. high (obviously I wasn't educated on the finer points, but I was starting to learn concepts).

AZDude

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2016, 03:18:06 PM »
Mario sure sounds like a piece of shit. And most of those people have reasonable loans. Anything under $50K is not that difficult to pay off. Not to mention the euphoria you get when you finally pay them off and realize you paid for your own education.

Making Cookies

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #43 on: January 21, 2016, 01:17:04 PM »

How would it be a vacation? Only tuition gets paid for, not all living expenses. So it's not any cheaper for a potential student to go to college than actually working and making money, but one route they get paid and the other they don't. This alone would prevent most people from using college for a "vacation".

The whole idea of "debt dodging" is pretty stupid. Having said that, I think it's pretty obvious that tax-payer funded college is a better solution than mass student indebtedness and in some cases lack of opportunity because you're not from a wealthier family.

Academic vacation: people who major in areas not useful for getting a job. I know my state univ didn't offer many (any?) of these types of classes so maybe that fixes the problem. Gov't money sends the student to state univ?

Private money needed for schools that offer goofy classes on topics such as Star Wars themes and Twilight vampire heros?

Maybe a list could be created that limited the number of scholarships for a given study track.  We need 100K engineers, 250K nurses, and 10 "Studies of" people in 2017. First come, first serve.

A few people I knew in college went to school and basically partied until they flunked out. That's another type of vacation. One fellow spent his days trying to hang out at my house while I worked and went to class until i told him unequivocally no. He was spending his parents' money.

He lasted two semesters I think. He wasted every day wandering around town and dropping in on me at random times. I would sometimes need to drop by my house (small town) to change clothes before classes b/c my job(s) involved cleaning and painting among other things. He'd be waiting in a nearby parking lot and when he saw my car, pull in behind me. "What's up dude???" I wonder if he wouldn't have robbed me blind given the opportunity. 

How would it work? GPA requirements? Only offered for certain study concentrations?

What happens if the student flunks out? Are they on the hook for the semester's fees and tuition? How many kids will just go test drive the college experience on gov't money? Parties, late nights in the dorms, looking for hookups, etc... Cheap to come up with living expenses if the tuition and fees are covered. Even better if they are living in an apt or rental house with a half dozen guys. What is the motivation for the low achievers to finish school. If they quit school, they have the same living expenses.

If they would be required to pay back the lost semester's fees and tuition I imagine a whole new group just like the folks complaining about paying back student loans.

I preferred using the military and part time jobs to pay for my college at state uni.

cube.37

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #44 on: January 21, 2016, 01:51:46 PM »
I did research in high school. Hell, I remember telling an English teacher that I liked research papers in jr. high (obviously I wasn't educated on the finer points, but I was starting to learn concepts).

And I remember a research project I did in elementary school...I did a short several page research paper on rocks and crystals. I even used word art on the cover page to make it look super cool.

Obviously a difference in depth and intensity, but you (mm1970) can't say that you only get the tools to research a topic like student loans once you get to college. I remember spending hours in middle school reading the starcraft manual to research and analyze how I'd become a better player..

And I forgot the most obvious example: researching which colleges to apply to...

(Modified to add last sentence)
« Last Edit: January 21, 2016, 01:54:23 PM by cube.37 »

justajane

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #45 on: January 21, 2016, 02:05:57 PM »
Someone on my Facebook feed posted this article in favor of what they are doing. I responded that I didn't understand why they didn't explore IBR, PAYE, or PSLF. I'll see if anyone responds.

bb11

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #46 on: January 21, 2016, 02:16:15 PM »

How would it be a vacation? Only tuition gets paid for, not all living expenses. So it's not any cheaper for a potential student to go to college than actually working and making money, but one route they get paid and the other they don't. This alone would prevent most people from using college for a "vacation".

The whole idea of "debt dodging" is pretty stupid. Having said that, I think it's pretty obvious that tax-payer funded college is a better solution than mass student indebtedness and in some cases lack of opportunity because you're not from a wealthier family.

Academic vacation: people who major in areas not useful for getting a job. I know my state univ didn't offer many (any?) of these types of classes so maybe that fixes the problem. Gov't money sends the student to state univ?

Private money needed for schools that offer goofy classes on topics such as Star Wars themes and Twilight vampire heros?

Maybe a list could be created that limited the number of scholarships for a given study track.  We need 100K engineers, 250K nurses, and 10 "Studies of" people in 2017. First come, first serve.

A few people I knew in college went to school and basically partied until they flunked out. That's another type of vacation. One fellow spent his days trying to hang out at my house while I worked and went to class until i told him unequivocally no. He was spending his parents' money.

He lasted two semesters I think. He wasted every day wandering around town and dropping in on me at random times. I would sometimes need to drop by my house (small town) to change clothes before classes b/c my job(s) involved cleaning and painting among other things. He'd be waiting in a nearby parking lot and when he saw my car, pull in behind me. "What's up dude???" I wonder if he wouldn't have robbed me blind given the opportunity. 

How would it work? GPA requirements? Only offered for certain study concentrations?

What happens if the student flunks out? Are they on the hook for the semester's fees and tuition? How many kids will just go test drive the college experience on gov't money? Parties, late nights in the dorms, looking for hookups, etc... Cheap to come up with living expenses if the tuition and fees are covered. Even better if they are living in an apt or rental house with a half dozen guys. What is the motivation for the low achievers to finish school. If they quit school, they have the same living expenses.

If they would be required to pay back the lost semester's fees and tuition I imagine a whole new group just like the folks complaining about paying back student loans.

I preferred using the military and part time jobs to pay for my college at state uni.

This is a non-sequitur. It wouldn't be used often (just as it isn't now) because living expenses still have to be paid. Examples:

Student goes to college:
Year 1: 20k living expenses, 0k income
Year 2: 20k living expenses, 0k income
Year 3: 20k living expenses, 0k income
Year 4: 20k living expenses, 0k income
Result: $80k in debt

Student forgoes college:
Year 1: 20k living expenses, 20k income
Year 2: 20k living expenses, 23k income
Year 3: 20k living expenses, 27k income
Year 4: 20k living expenses, 30k income
Result: No debt, $30k in savings

Why would someone who only wants a vacation choose the first option and not the second? Hell, skip school and just take the vacation if you're going to live off loans.

Your scenario is a distraction that is unrealistic.

MsSindy

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #47 on: January 21, 2016, 02:30:35 PM »
Regarding researching colleges - I'm first generation to graduate college in my family; parents and all siblings were high school drop outs.  This was also pre-internet.  I took note of the schools around where I lived.  hey, this one has my major and it's one of the fancy schools with a nice campus close to the beach, but WOW that's a lot of money.  Hey, the Jr College is only a couple hundred, I think I'll start there.  And look, this State school isn't too expensive, I'll transfer there.  Research done.

Got good grades, and got in with one of the top Consulting firms - really a no brainer.

klystomane

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2016, 03:01:46 PM »
Let them leave.  And if they ever want to come back make them pay an arm and a leg to get back in. Literally. We take one of their arms and one of their legs. They can pick which one.

Would you rather give up:
A. an arm and a leg
B. both arms only
C. both legs only


cube.37

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Re: Student Loan Fugitives
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2016, 03:28:24 PM »
Regarding researching colleges - I'm first generation to graduate college in my family; parents and all siblings were high school drop outs.  This was also pre-internet.  I took note of the schools around where I lived.  hey, this one has my major and it's one of the fancy schools with a nice campus close to the beach, but WOW that's a lot of money.  Hey, the Jr College is only a couple hundred, I think I'll start there.  And look, this State school isn't too expensive, I'll transfer there.  Research done.

Got good grades, and got in with one of the top Consulting firms - really a no brainer.

I think whether or not someone does the research on a topic (and how deep they dig) just has to do with three things:
1. his/her own initiative
2. desire to learn about that specific topic and
3. a deeper inclination to want to understand things

...and I think that at the end of the day, you are wholly responsible for yourself and the decisions you make.

Take the entire frugal lifestyle for example. It wasn't something I was really aware of until I did some research in money management. And once I was interested, I spent months doing research. If my brother is a spendthrift, I won't judge him for his decisions. At the same time, I won't pity him for never taking the initiative to learn about the frugal lifestyle. If he crumbles in debt, at the end of the day, it was his lack of initiative, and his decision to make. He can deal with the outcomes himself.

I think the biggest difference in opinions comes from: at what age are people responsible for the outcome of their decisions? Personally, I think it starts around highschool, but I could understand why others would say 21 or even older.