Author Topic: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike  (Read 21773 times)

sheepstache

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2015, 09:41:13 PM »
Something has been driving me nuts and I'm glad there's a crowd here I can share it with. A friend posted this on her facebook wall (she's smart and often posts a lot of cool stuff):

http://smartpenny.club/922/sallie-mae-forced-to-pay-back-nearly-200-million-to-student-borrowers-2/

I pointed out that this is not an article, it's just an advertisement for student debt consolidation. The first 2 paragraphs touch on the topic but don't have any info, the rest of it is just an ad about how much people are suffering from high student debt and how you should call "the number below", making it sound like it has something to do with the SallieMae payback deal.

If you click up at the top on the website name ("Smart Penny Club, Expert Independent Reports"), it just redirects to StudentDefender.org which has the same phone number. They appear to advise people on loan consolidation as well as income-based repayment plans.

At the time I pointed out it was a bullshit article, one person had shared it. Friends, I just checked, and it has now been shared 14 times. Despite the fact that the article has no information about the supposed payback and there is no useful information for anybody in it--despite, in fact, that there are lots of legitimate articles about the government probes into Sallie Mae--rage against the company compels people to disseminate this.

Ha, now that I think about it in the context of this thread, it's funny. People are outraged at the "special treatment" people would get if loans were forgiven even though it doesn't affect them directly. On the flip side, people with loans are so angry at SallieMae that they're delighted to see them being punished even though the investigation may never lead to any pay out and they may never directly be affected by it if there is.

dividendman

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2015, 10:03:26 PM »
A strike is you losing money by not working to gain future concessions from an employer in the hopes that they are losing more and realize your value.

What the fuck is a repayment "strike"? I hate then people make up terms to make shit sound righteous.

Yeah, I'm going on a "Paying Retailers for Things Strike" by going into stores and taking their shit... now it's somehow OK since it's a strike.

Stop being so Orwellian with your shit news media/people.

Jack

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Re: Student Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2015, 09:19:46 AM »
Some counter points to several of the charts posted above:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/05/opinion/sunday/the-real-reason-college-tuition-costs-so-much.html?smid=fb-share&_r=1

This one I strongly agree with-
"Even more strikingly, an analysis by a professor at California Polytechnic University, Pomona, found that, while the total number of full-time faculty members in the C.S.U. system grew from 11,614 to 12,019 between 1975 and 2008, the total number of administrators grew from 3,800 to 12,183 — a 221 percent increase."

The over-administration of college is ridiculous, and IMO actually decreases the quality of academics as professors are subjected to greater and greater amounts of scrutiny and restriction, which runs contrary to the very spirit of liberal arts education. I don't think that's necessarily a counter point to the charts above, though, so much as it's yet further evidence that the rising costs of college do not reflect rising values of college. Whether the ultimate culprit is fancier dorms, more student activities, more administration, or all of these things and more, all of the information indicates that prices are being driven up while product quality is more suspect than it's ever been.

Indeed. From my perspective as someone who experienced it, I don't necessarily care why costs skyrocketed without a commensurate increase in quality; I only care that the ROI fell off a cliff in such a way that you couldn't tell you were fucked until after the fact.

That said, I still stand by my assertion that costs skyrocketed at least in part because of student loans. All that money to inflate the salaries of administrators (or however it was spent) had to come from somewhere, and if people had not had the ability to take on debt like that then the universities wouldn't have been able to charge so much regardless of how much they wanted to.

shedinator

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Re: Student Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2015, 10:24:04 AM »
Indeed. From my perspective as someone who experienced it, I don't necessarily care why costs skyrocketed without a commensurate increase in quality; I only care that the ROI fell off a cliff in such a way that you couldn't tell you were fucked until after the fact.

That said, I still stand by my assertion that costs skyrocketed at least in part because of student loans. All that money to inflate the salaries of administrators (or however it was spent) had to come from somewhere, and if people had not had the ability to take on debt like that then the universities wouldn't have been able to charge so much regardless of how much they wanted to.

You're right, and the data bear out that fact: the rate of tuition increase is commensurate with the rate of borrowing limit hikes. I wonder, though, how this can be avoided while still making funds available to students. My guess is by the time some legislative group got together and crafted the intricate regulations necessary to make student loans available to those who need them most while at the same time preventing schools from jacking up their prices accordingly, we'd all reach the conclusion that publicly administrated, no-frills education is the real solution. Hell, that's precisely why school voucher programs don't catch on: study after study shows that when vouchers are made available, the private schools boost tuition and low income students are stuck attending underfunded public schools. Maybe we just need to recognize that economic reality doesn't undergo a magic shift between 12th grade and freshman year.

slugline

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2015, 10:41:56 AM »
What the fuck is a repayment "strike"? I hate then people make up terms to make shit sound righteous.

They're probably borrowing (heh!) the same general concept of a rent strike. Of course, they're going to need a lot more than the "Corinthian 100" to withhold payment before it has any kind of meaningful economic impact on anyone other than themselves. . . .

Mr Dorothy Dollar

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2015, 09:17:18 PM »
So WTF is the solution? 

Default on the loans and move to another country. Leave the crappy debt here and start over in another country. Canada is rather nice.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2015, 09:01:38 AM »
I agree that student loans shouldn't be dischargeable in bankruptcy except under extreme conditions--after all, there's nothing to repossess. But the well of taxpayer-subsidized loans needs to dry up.

We've seen an incredible increase in administrative costs in higher education.  The same is true in our public schools--I seem to remember reading that in the 70's, there was a 30-to-1 ratio of classroom teachers to other staff.  And now it's 1-to-1.  Seriously, when I was in high school (1100 students or so), we had one principal and one assistant principal.  Our local high schools now have something like *six* assistant principals.

jackiechiles2

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2015, 12:31:53 PM »
Have they tried suing the school for fraud/misrepresentation and demanding refunds? That seems to make a lot more sense than refusing to pay back your loans.  However, once we start talking consumer fraud, the AG usually gets involved.  Maybe to get his/her attention they had to hurt the gov't loan holder first.  I don't think it's a smart path but if gets the attention of people that can make a difference than maybe it wasn't the dumbest idea.

Also, student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy in some very rare circumstances that show extreme hardship beyond just what every student faces.  You need more than insolvency.  Their stories could rise to that level.  Here is an article on it.  http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/student-loan-ranger/2014/08/13/debunking-the-student-loan-bankruptcy-myth

Someone tries to sue some law schools a while back on similar theories.  Thomas Cooley was one of the defendants. I believe it got dismissed because the judge basically said nobody would be dumb enough to believe the bs the law schools were spewing.

dude

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike -UPDATE
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2015, 05:42:24 AM »
Well, it looks like these "striking students'" cause is gaining traction.  They've got states' officials' attention:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/9-states-want-corinthian-colleges-student-debt-wiped-away-2015-04-09

Jack

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike -UPDATE
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2015, 07:32:59 AM »
Well, it looks like these "striking students'" cause is gaining traction.  They've got states' officials' attention:

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/9-states-want-corinthian-colleges-student-debt-wiped-away-2015-04-09

Quote
The top law enforcement officials of Massachusetts, California, Connecticut, Illinois, Kentucky, New Mexico, New York, Oregon and Washington...

♫ One of these things is not like the others,
One of these things just doesn't belong
Can you tell which thing is not like the others
By the time I finish my song? ♫

eyePod

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #60 on: April 10, 2015, 08:27:13 AM »
If you get into a good college and get a crap degree, the onus is on you and you should pay.   But if you go to a fraudulent college for a crap degree, it may be your personal responsibility NOT to pay.

Ah, but once you reach this point (getting the crap degree) you've ALREADY paid the college, and are now having to repay the BANK.

Thanks for pointing this out. The bank is an innocent party in this. The only reason they make those huge loans is the absurd special rules of the game the government sets up. It it wasn't for government policy regarding college and student loans the schools wouldn't charge nearly as much and the banks wouldn't lend nearly as much so there would never be massive mortgage sized debt backed by nothing and handed out like candy.

Getting ready for the bubble to burst. it's gonna be a hell of a ride. Wish there was some way to short student loan debt like you can stocks!

JustPlainBill

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #61 on: April 10, 2015, 11:31:58 AM »
Sorry, kiddos.  A loan is a contract and needs to be honored.  Made a bad decision?  Didn't do enough research?  Picked one of those advertise-on-cable colleges?  I sympathize, but too damn bad, pay up.

Of course the politicians are going to open their yaps, express outrage, and demand forgiveness.  Good for getting the votes of the ignorant youths, and after all, it's just the taxpayer's money we're talking about.

"Life is hard.  Life is harder if you're stupid".  Various sources.

shedinator

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #62 on: April 10, 2015, 09:53:26 PM »
Sorry, kiddos.  A loan is a contract and needs to be honored.  Made a bad decision?  Didn't do enough research?  Picked one of those advertise-on-cable colleges?  I sympathize, but too damn bad, pay up.

Of course the politicians are going to open their yaps, express outrage, and demand forgiveness.  Good for getting the votes of the ignorant youths, and after all, it's just the taxpayer's money we're talking about.

"Life is hard.  Life is harder if you're stupid".  Various sources.

This keeps being said, but it's said in such a way that I get the sense the posters don't mean it. "A loan is a contract and needs to be honored." Sure. Absolutely it needs to be honored. It just so happens that part of the contract says if the loans were issued fraudulently, they are eligible for cancellation, and one such form of fraud is the institution falsely certifying you as qualified/eligible to work in the field of your choice. That needs to be honored. It also happens that another part of the contract says if you don't earn above a certain amount post-graduation, you are eligible to make less-than-full payments and have the remaining balance forgiven after 25 years. That, also, needs to be honored.

Are these ridiculous contract terms for a loan? Yes, they are, but they are the terms of the contract. If people feel that they are within the parameters of their student loan contract to not pay, and that the bank in question is attempting to collect payments in violation of that contract, then they should not pay. Given recent rulings concerning the validity (or lack thereof) of certain schools' certification claims, they may even be right and the terms of the contract will be enforced in their favor. Or they may be wrong, in which case the terms of the contract will be be enforced against them by means of garnished wages, damaged credit, and potential loss of license. Either way, this is a disagreement over who is currently in violation of the contract terms, and it will eventually be resolved one way or another.

Sofa King

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #63 on: April 11, 2015, 05:15:10 PM »
Sorry, kiddos.  A loan is a contract and needs to be honored.  Made a bad decision?  Didn't do enough research?  Picked one of those advertise-on-cable colleges?  I sympathize, but too damn bad, pay up.



"Life is hard.  Life is harder if you're stupid".  Various sources.

I concur.

MrsPete

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2015, 05:41:09 PM »
We've seen an incredible increase in administrative costs in higher education.  The same is true in our public schools--I seem to remember reading that in the 70's, there was a 30-to-1 ratio of classroom teachers to other staff.  And now it's 1-to-1.  Seriously, when I was in high school (1100 students or so), we had one principal and one assistant principal.  Our local high schools now have something like *six* assistant principals.
No, lots of wrong info:

- When I was a student in the 70s and 80s, my classes were roughly 20 students-1 teacher.  Today my own classroom tends towards 28-32 students-1 teacher.  This is an average for my county.  In the big-city county next to us, it's more like 35-38 students-1 teacher.  The average student is receiving less "teacher time" than in the past.

- We do have more assistant principals; however, high schools have increased in size -- this is something people want; that is, "we" want larger schools that can offer a wider range of AP classes, multiple musical classes and advanced PE classes, JROTC, international travel options, loads of clubs, etc.  To offer these things, high schools must increase in number.  I was one of 130 seniors, and we had a principal and an assistant.  The high school where I teach will graduate 350 seniors this year, and we have a principal and three assistants.  So, 130-2 vs. 350-4.  I would never want an admin job; all they do is deal with the bad kids and attend sports and other evening events -- at least one of them must be present for EVERY school event, even something small like a tennis match. 

- We are now "keeping" many special ed students who in the past essentially never came to school.  My school is one of a few in our area that houses the "severe and profound classes".  These 5-6 students do have a teacher plus two assistants, but it's their legal right to attend school.  Similarly, we house two "life skills" classes that educate kids who can't be placed in the mainstream classes; those classes have 12-15 students-1 teacher plus 2 assistants.  Our special ed department is 3Xs the size of any other academic department, though our school does have more of these classes than the neighboring high schools. 

- We are now "keeping" students with behavior problems who in the past would've been expelled and forgotten.  We have a class for students with severe behavior problems.  Early in the year it contains about ten kids, a teacher and an assistant.  With 5-6 weeks of school left, this class has now dwindled to two students.  So, yes, that's a 1-1 ratio, but it's ONE CLASS, not the whole school. 


beltim

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2015, 05:46:06 PM »
We've seen an incredible increase in administrative costs in higher education.  The same is true in our public schools--I seem to remember reading that in the 70's, there was a 30-to-1 ratio of classroom teachers to other staff.  And now it's 1-to-1.  Seriously, when I was in high school (1100 students or so), we had one principal and one assistant principal.  Our local high schools now have something like *six* assistant principals.
No, lots of wrong info:

- When I was a student in the 70s and 80s, my classes were roughly 20 students-1 teacher.  Today my own classroom tends towards 28-32 students-1 teacher.  This is an average for my county.  In the big-city county next to us, it's more like 35-38 students-1 teacher.  The average student is receiving less "teacher time" than in the past.

The rest of your post is interesting, but you misread on this point.  Zolotiyeruki was talking about the ratio of teachers to other staff, not about the ratio of students to teachers.

gimp

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2015, 07:48:50 PM »
Sorry, kiddos.  A loan is a contract and needs to be honored.  Made a bad decision?  Didn't do enough research?  Picked one of those advertise-on-cable colleges?  I sympathize, but too damn bad, pay up.

Of course the politicians are going to open their yaps, express outrage, and demand forgiveness.  Good for getting the votes of the ignorant youths, and after all, it's just the taxpayer's money we're talking about.

"Life is hard.  Life is harder if you're stupid".  Various sources.

A loan is a contract that, if not honored, has penalties. If you do the math and decide the penalties cost less than honoring it, that's your business decision to make. Morality aside, it's a business decision. Your argument may be that it is your moral obligation to honor the contract, but that's an entirely different argument.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #67 on: April 16, 2015, 10:51:02 AM »
No, lots of wrong info:

- When I was a student in the 70s and 80s, my classes were roughly 20 students-1 teacher.  Today my own classroom tends towards 28-32 students-1 teacher.  This is an average for my county.  In the big-city county next to us, it's more like 35-38 students-1 teacher.  The average student is receiving less "teacher time" than in the past.

- We do have more assistant principals; however, high schools have increased in size -- this is something people want; that is, "we" want larger schools that can offer a wider range of AP classes, multiple musical classes and advanced PE classes, JROTC, international travel options, loads of clubs, etc.  To offer these things, high schools must increase in number.  I was one of 130 seniors, and we had a principal and an assistant.  The high school where I teach will graduate 350 seniors this year, and we have a principal and three assistants.  So, 130-2 vs. 350-4.  I would never want an admin job; all they do is deal with the bad kids and attend sports and other evening events -- at least one of them must be present for EVERY school event, even something small like a tennis match. 

- We are now "keeping" many special ed students who in the past essentially never came to school.  My school is one of a few in our area that houses the "severe and profound classes".  These 5-6 students do have a teacher plus two assistants, but it's their legal right to attend school.  Similarly, we house two "life skills" classes that educate kids who can't be placed in the mainstream classes; those classes have 12-15 students-1 teacher plus 2 assistants.  Our special ed department is 3Xs the size of any other academic department, though our school does have more of these classes than the neighboring high schools. 

- We are now "keeping" students with behavior problems who in the past would've been expelled and forgotten.  We have a class for students with severe behavior problems.  Early in the year it contains about ten kids, a teacher and an assistant.  With 5-6 weeks of school left, this class has now dwindled to two students.  So, yes, that's a 1-1 ratio, but it's ONE CLASS, not the whole school.
I can't argue against the last two points--certainly we devote a lot more resources to special ed and at-risk students than we used to.  However, my experience differs with yours on the first two points.  I attended a high school of 1100 students, with 1 assistant principal.  Our local high schools, with about 2500 students each, each have 6 assistant principals. So the difference is a factor of 2.5-3 (on an assistant-principal-per-student basis).  Granted, it's just one datapoint, but still.  As for administration being required to attend every event, sheesh, that's insane.

As for class size, perhaps you're in an outlier--this survey seems to show that average class sizes vary from place to place, but not consistently near/above 30.

One other thing I *have* noticed is the incredible amount of money paid for facilities.  The all-the-bells-and-whistles theater, the cafeteria with 35-foot ceilings, the ridiculously inefficient architecture, etc. Not only are they expensive to build (a recent proposal was something like $100 million to expand the high school to accommodate another 500 students), but it also costs a lot to clean, maintain, and pay the interest on the debt.

MrsPete

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #68 on: April 18, 2015, 05:56:05 PM »
No, lots of wrong info:

- When I was a student in the 70s and 80s, my classes were roughly 20 students-1 teacher.  Today my own classroom tends towards 28-32 students-1 teacher.  This is an average for my county.  In the big-city county next to us, it's more like 35-38 students-1 teacher.  The average student is receiving less "teacher time" than in the past.

- We do have more assistant principals; however, high schools have increased in size -- this is something people want; that is, "we" want larger schools that can offer a wider range of AP classes, multiple musical classes and advanced PE classes, JROTC, international travel options, loads of clubs, etc.  To offer these things, high schools must increase in number.  I was one of 130 seniors, and we had a principal and an assistant.  The high school where I teach will graduate 350 seniors this year, and we have a principal and three assistants.  So, 130-2 vs. 350-4.  I would never want an admin job; all they do is deal with the bad kids and attend sports and other evening events -- at least one of them must be present for EVERY school event, even something small like a tennis match. 

- We are now "keeping" many special ed students who in the past essentially never came to school.  My school is one of a few in our area that houses the "severe and profound classes".  These 5-6 students do have a teacher plus two assistants, but it's their legal right to attend school.  Similarly, we house two "life skills" classes that educate kids who can't be placed in the mainstream classes; those classes have 12-15 students-1 teacher plus 2 assistants.  Our special ed department is 3Xs the size of any other academic department, though our school does have more of these classes than the neighboring high schools. 

- We are now "keeping" students with behavior problems who in the past would've been expelled and forgotten.  We have a class for students with severe behavior problems.  Early in the year it contains about ten kids, a teacher and an assistant.  With 5-6 weeks of school left, this class has now dwindled to two students.  So, yes, that's a 1-1 ratio, but it's ONE CLASS, not the whole school.
I can't argue against the last two points--certainly we devote a lot more resources to special ed and at-risk students than we used to.  However, my experience differs with yours on the first two points.  I attended a high school of 1100 students, with 1 assistant principal.  Our local high schools, with about 2500 students each, each have 6 assistant principals. So the difference is a factor of 2.5-3 (on an assistant-principal-per-student basis).  Granted, it's just one datapoint, but still.  As for administration being required to attend every event, sheesh, that's insane.

As for class size, perhaps you're in an outlier--this survey seems to show that average class sizes vary from place to place, but not consistently near/above 30.

One other thing I *have* noticed is the incredible amount of money paid for facilities.  The all-the-bells-and-whistles theater, the cafeteria with 35-foot ceilings, the ridiculously inefficient architecture, etc. Not only are they expensive to build (a recent proposal was something like $100 million to expand the high school to accommodate another 500 students), but it also costs a lot to clean, maintain, and pay the interest on the debt.
Numbers of administrators is going to vary from place to place, and it may well be that their duties vary from place to place ... but the big point is that high schools have INCREASED in size, mainly so that they can offer a wider variety of options to students, so more APs really are necessary.  Another thing I didn't mention is that our state is WASTING our APs time in having them observe X number of hours in every teachers' classroom /keep lengthy notes on what we're doing constantly. 

And, yes, someone from administration must attend every event.  Big events -- like football games and basketball games -- require multiple administrators.  No, they aren't working hard at these events; they're just watching the game, or whatever, but they essentially LIVE at the school.  When I started teaching, I used to think I wanted to move up to that job.  Nope, not any more. 

As for classes "averaging" less than 30, I'm going to call that one a lie.  That is, a lie with numbers.  As I said, my high school is one of the few who houses the severe and profound special ed classes.  They never have more than 5 students.  Likewise, our English-as-a-second-language classes run 5-10.  Don't forget Spanish-for-native-speakers, which has about 10 kids.  And classes like "library assistant" that technically count as classes (the students are assigned to the librarian, who is responsible for taking attendance every day), but are made up of 2 students at the most.  All these things bring our numbers down significantly, but the truth is that the average, mainstream class averages about 30. 

I can't relate to the over-the-top building.  Our "bells and whistles" auditorium is full of broken seats, and our cafeteria is nothing fancy.  Like most schools, we do have an aux. gym, but that's a matter of being a 1600+ student school.  Perhaps fancy schools are "a thing" in other parts of the country.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #69 on: April 18, 2015, 07:19:04 PM »
Numbers of administrators is going to vary from place to place, and it may well be that their duties vary from place to place ... but the big point is that high schools have INCREASED in size, mainly so that they can offer a wider variety of options to students, so more APs really are necessary.  Another thing I didn't mention is that our state is WASTING our APs time in having them observe X number of hours in every teachers' classroom /keep lengthy notes on what we're doing constantly. 

And, yes, someone from administration must attend every event.  Big events -- like football games and basketball games -- require multiple administrators.  No, they aren't working hard at these events; they're just watching the game, or whatever, but they essentially LIVE at the school.  When I started teaching, I used to think I wanted to move up to that job.  Nope, not any more. 

As for classes "averaging" less than 30, I'm going to call that one a lie.  That is, a lie with numbers.  As I said, my high school is one of the few who houses the severe and profound special ed classes.  They never have more than 5 students.  Likewise, our English-as-a-second-language classes run 5-10.  Don't forget Spanish-for-native-speakers, which has about 10 kids.  And classes like "library assistant" that technically count as classes (the students are assigned to the librarian, who is responsible for taking attendance every day), but are made up of 2 students at the most.  All these things bring our numbers down significantly, but the truth is that the average, mainstream class averages about 30. 

I can't relate to the over-the-top building.  Our "bells and whistles" auditorium is full of broken seats, and our cafeteria is nothing fancy.  Like most schools, we do have an aux. gym, but that's a matter of being a 1600+ student school.  Perhaps fancy schools are "a thing" in other parts of the country.
I wonder if the "adminstrator at every event" thing is common, or unique to your district.  That would certainly increase the workload.  Do you have any insight as to why such a policy is in place?

wileyish

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2015, 12:18:30 AM »
And then, to add insult to injury, we get a bunch of Gen-Xers (who not only went to college back when it was easily affordable on the proceeds from their summer McJob, but who also benefited from the rise in salaries in the '90s) telling us that we fucked up by actually listening to the shitty advice that they themselves gave us in the first place!

Gen-Xer here. Thank you for posting this. I’ve been following this story with an equal amount of disbelief and smugness. $100,000+ in SL debt!?! Did all these people go to Harvard and they still can’t find jobs?? What the eff, I worked to pay for a B.A. and came out on the other side with a tiny amount of SLs and one of my college jobs parlayed into a lucrative/interesting career. Your post helped me reframe my opinions and do a little research on the current cost of higher education. Holy Mother, college HAS gotten a lot more expensive in just over 15 years or so. I wouldn’t have been able to swing a degree at current costs (accounting for inflation) without accruing substantial debt, so I’m more sympathetic towards the kids who graduated from college a few years ago. And I also see a lot of baby boomers clinging on to jobs from which they should have long since retired. But they need to fund their spools…who doesn’t need a Spa+Pool combo?…life wouldn’t be worth living without this contraption...

On the flip side, in the U.S. we are well into a boom cycle and opportunities abound. Remember, the generations before you, including early Gen-Xers, didn’t have the benefit of instant information with a few clicks of the keyboard. When evaluating investments, we had to mail in requests for a prospectus, try to digest the information in a shiny pamphlet with a vocabulary that was very foreign, mail in our sign-up forms (with postage stamps!), etc. It was all very convoluted and confusing. We did not have Google, Reddit, or MMM. So in a lot of ways your cohort has many advantages. It’s up to you to make the most of the resources now available. Despite the rough start, I expect the millennials will far surpass prior generations in creating lives that successfully leverage expenses and lifestyle. The journals section on this forum has several 20-somethings just crushing obstacles that take most people 30 or 40 years to navigate.

Psychstache

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Re: Studen Loan Recipients Go On Repayment Strike
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2015, 08:47:30 AM »
Numbers of administrators is going to vary from place to place, and it may well be that their duties vary from place to place ... but the big point is that high schools have INCREASED in size, mainly so that they can offer a wider variety of options to students, so more APs really are necessary.  Another thing I didn't mention is that our state is WASTING our APs time in having them observe X number of hours in every teachers' classroom /keep lengthy notes on what we're doing constantly. 

And, yes, someone from administration must attend every event.  Big events -- like football games and basketball games -- require multiple administrators.  No, they aren't working hard at these events; they're just watching the game, or whatever, but they essentially LIVE at the school.  When I started teaching, I used to think I wanted to move up to that job.  Nope, not any more. 

As for classes "averaging" less than 30, I'm going to call that one a lie.  That is, a lie with numbers.  As I said, my high school is one of the few who houses the severe and profound special ed classes.  They never have more than 5 students.  Likewise, our English-as-a-second-language classes run 5-10.  Don't forget Spanish-for-native-speakers, which has about 10 kids.  And classes like "library assistant" that technically count as classes (the students are assigned to the librarian, who is responsible for taking attendance every day), but are made up of 2 students at the most.  All these things bring our numbers down significantly, but the truth is that the average, mainstream class averages about 30. 

I can't relate to the over-the-top building.  Our "bells and whistles" auditorium is full of broken seats, and our cafeteria is nothing fancy.  Like most schools, we do have an aux. gym, but that's a matter of being a 1600+ student school.  Perhaps fancy schools are "a thing" in other parts of the country.
I wonder if the "adminstrator at every event" thing is common, or unique to your district.  That would certainly increase the workload.  Do you have any insight as to why such a policy is in place?

Every district I or my friends has worked at requires some number of high school admins to appear at all after school events. It is a pretty standard practice.