Author Topic: Spouse wants luxury SUV!  (Read 24048 times)

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #150 on: December 30, 2021, 07:44:16 PM »
UPDATE:
On Monday we test drove 5 vehicles, and on Tuesday decided X5 was the one. On Monday the dealer said we could expect delivery in 3 months. On Wednesday we filled in paperwork to deposit $2,500 for the vehicle. Then the dealer said on Wednesday that on Tuesday the price had gone up $1,200 and it had not been reflected on the website yet, nor had he let us know it would or had happened, and no discount was possible, and by the way it would take at least 6 months for the vehicle to arrive. The apparent bait and switch cause the bursting of the emotional purchase bubble, so all bets are now off again. That sort of thing might be ok for someone buying 10,000 feet of pipe, but not a wise sales move for a purely emotional and frivolous consumer purchase with hundreds of alternatives, most of them better.

chesebert

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #151 on: December 30, 2021, 09:06:41 PM »
UPDATE:
On Monday we test drove 5 vehicles, and on Tuesday decided X5 was the one. On Monday the dealer said we could expect delivery in 3 months. On Wednesday we filled in paperwork to deposit $2,500 for the vehicle. Then the dealer said on Wednesday that on Tuesday the price had gone up $1,200 and it had not been reflected on the website yet, nor had he let us know it would or had happened, and no discount was possible, and by the way it would take at least 6 months for the vehicle to arrive. The apparent bait and switch cause the bursting of the emotional purchase bubble, so all bets are now off again. That sort of thing might be ok for someone buying 10,000 feet of pipe, but not a wise sales move for a purely emotional and frivolous consumer purchase with hundreds of alternatives, most of them better.
What was the on the road price? 6 months wait is normal right now for high tech trims (high number of chips).
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 10:48:11 PM by chesebert »

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #152 on: December 30, 2021, 09:15:45 PM »
It would have been just MSRP.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 09:17:23 PM by Radagast »

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #153 on: December 30, 2021, 09:58:52 PM »
So, are you now backing out of the silly vehicle purchase?

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #154 on: December 30, 2021, 10:06:58 PM »
Too early too tell yet. A 6 month delay on any purchase really takes out the fun emotional instant gratification aspect.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #155 on: December 30, 2021, 10:47:47 PM »
Have you considered buying someone else's X5 for half the cost? You could have it same-day.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #156 on: December 30, 2021, 11:30:57 PM »
Yes :) . Spouse is somewhat opposed to used cars, at least for this one. And I can't press it at this time. For example, the least expensive 2019 or later (current generation) BMW X5 of any type I see right now on CarMax is $52,297 including delivery, and has 54,000 miles. Well a brand new X5 hybrid is $63,150 after a tax credit. I don't think 54,000 miles and 3 years are worth merely $10,000 on a BMW. Even if depreciation is assumed to be linear, and it is dead at 200,000 miles, a vehicle with 54,000 miles on it and a $63,000 new price should only be worth $46,000.

To get half price we'd need to go back to 2014, which at $32,000 is about the same price as it would have been when we first looked at these in 2016. (Actually I recall a 2014 with like 80,000 miles was worth about $30,000 back in 2016, and in 2022 a 2014 with 57,000 miles goes for $32,000.)

And for that reason I think that used vehicles don't seem like a great deal right now.

Exflyboy

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #157 on: January 03, 2022, 02:40:20 PM »
We ended up with a new Honda Passport (Sport model which is their base trim).. Honestly for $35,127 (with Costco discount) the thing seems like an absolute bargain in comparison to most others,

Goes like stink and handles well too.

Just Joe

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #158 on: January 04, 2022, 12:44:52 PM »
My brother and SIL sold their minivan because SIL wanted an SUV, pretty much solely because minivans in their area are looked down upon. Less practical in almost every way, the SUV is just what she wanted and it fits in better. The Mercedes has nothing to do with what will work and everything to do with what looks right.

Aren't minivans pretty much universally looked down upon in the USA? Same with the station wagon before that.

Its funny to me b/c the minivan is probably the best kind of people and stuff mover on the market but I guess it isn't cool to use logic and make solid long term choices. Must chase coolness... ;)

jinga nation

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #159 on: January 04, 2022, 01:01:36 PM »
My brother and SIL sold their minivan because SIL wanted an SUV, pretty much solely because minivans in their area are looked down upon. Less practical in almost every way, the SUV is just what she wanted and it fits in better. The Mercedes has nothing to do with what will work and everything to do with what looks right.

Aren't minivans pretty much universally looked down upon in the USA? Same with the station wagon before that.

Its funny to me b/c the minivan is probably the best kind of people and stuff mover on the market but I guess it isn't cool to use logic and make solid long term choices. Must chase coolness... ;)

Not in my metro. Toyota's Sienna Hybrids and Honda Odyssey's are barely on the lot, with an order backlog at my nearest Toyota dealer. (Co-worker has been trying buy a new one of either model, but he refuses to pay over MSRP. Meanwhile dealers are tacking on a couple of grand and still selling.)

Used minivan prices are up too. Check out the price trends: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #160 on: January 04, 2022, 01:37:11 PM »
Aren't minivans pretty much universally looked down upon in the USA? Same with the station wagon before that.

Its funny to me b/c the minivan is probably the best kind of people and stuff mover on the market but I guess it isn't cool to use logic and make solid long term choices. Must chase coolness... ;)
It's purely a marketing schtick.  SUVs are portrayed rugged vehicles that can tackle tough terrain, despite the fact that few SUVs are actually capable of anything worse than a speed bump, and even fewer see anything other than pavement.  At the same time, minivans are portrayed as the vehicle for those who have given up on their dreams of personal fulfillment in favor of raising children, as if raising children is nothing more than obligatory drudgery.

You're right that the minivan is absolutely the most practical vehicle on the market--comfortable* seating for eight, massive cargo capacity, and reasonable gas mileage.

* - depending on the model and which seat you're in.  I think Honda's the only one left with comfortable seats for all 8 passengers, given Toyota's latest generation of Sienna.

Not in my metro. Toyota's Sienna Hybrids and Honda Odyssey's are barely on the lot, with an order backlog at my nearest Toyota dealer. (Co-worker has been trying buy a new one of either model, but he refuses to pay over MSRP. Meanwhile dealers are tacking on a couple of grand and still selling.)

Used minivan prices are up too. Check out the price trends: https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/
I wonder if the global chip shortage has force manufacturers to prioritize, and they prioritized SUVs over minivans?  You're right that minivan prices are crazy, though--we've been in the market for a long time, and we've seen depreciation due to age drop to near zero.

Exflyboy

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #161 on: January 04, 2022, 05:33:27 PM »
Your'e right @zolotiyeruki

Recently we were driving down this waterlogged gravel road in the Passport SUV. Came across a guy who had driven into a ditch and was almost laying on its side.

DW was "ohh we can help pull him out".. Like our SUV was built like our beater F250 truck... Nope! This is a car and not built anything like the F250.. Not only that chances are he would have needed 2 F250's to have any chance of getting him out.

Like you say, SUV's really are cars with more ground clearance.. Fun for what they are but easily destroyed off pavement.

Just Joe

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #162 on: January 05, 2022, 02:17:32 PM »
Unobody vs body-on-frame. There is a difference.

Our unibody SUV has a suspension tuned for on-pavement handling. On rough roads it would shake itself to pieces unless driven moderately.

That said - I have done some towing with it. Rough gravel roads and 1500 lb camper. Towed a vintage tractor around with a chain when it couldn't start. Long distances and loaded utility trailer. Snow, mud, grassy fields, etc. Just go slow. ;)

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #163 on: January 06, 2022, 07:06:25 AM »
Your'e right @zolotiyeruki

Recently we were driving down this waterlogged gravel road in the Passport SUV. Came across a guy who had driven into a ditch and was almost laying on its side.

DW was "ohh we can help pull him out".. Like our SUV was built like our beater F250 truck... Nope! This is a car and not built anything like the F250.. Not only that chances are he would have needed 2 F250's to have any chance of getting him out.

Like you say, SUV's really are cars with more ground clearance.. Fun for what they are but easily destroyed off pavement.
There are a few body on frame SUVs left (Toyota 4Runner/Landcruiser, Lexus GX/LX come to mind) but they're absolutely a dying breed.

Just Joe

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #164 on: January 06, 2022, 08:57:39 AM »
Heck look at some of the current pickup trucks - BoF trucks may begin to fade away at the daily driver levels.

mm1970

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #165 on: January 06, 2022, 01:44:55 PM »
I just started reading this thread.  I just want to say good luck, +1 on the minivan.

And, depending on how old the Civic is...I can say that all new cars seem luxurious.  We just rented a car for 2 weeks at Christmas while traveling.  It was a small SUV, Nissan.  So fancy compared to our 2006 Matrix and 2009 Civic.

joe189man

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #166 on: January 06, 2022, 03:15:12 PM »
Have you driven or checked out the Kia Telluride? i know its a Kia but its the real deal of an SUV and may save $10k compared to that X5

JAYSLOL

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #167 on: January 07, 2022, 01:32:13 AM »
UPDATE:
On Monday we test drove 5 vehicles, and on Tuesday decided X5 was the one. On Monday the dealer said we could expect delivery in 3 months. On Wednesday we filled in paperwork to deposit $2,500 for the vehicle. Then the dealer said on Wednesday that on Tuesday the price had gone up $1,200 and it had not been reflected on the website yet, nor had he let us know it would or had happened, and no discount was possible, and by the way it would take at least 6 months for the vehicle to arrive. The apparent bait and switch cause the bursting of the emotional purchase bubble, so all bets are now off again. That sort of thing might be ok for someone buying 10,000 feet of pipe, but not a wise sales move for a purely emotional and frivolous consumer purchase with hundreds of alternatives, most of them better.

As someone who buys irrigation pipe all the time, I can tell you I wouldn’t be at all pleased.  If I called in an order on Monday and went in on Wednesday to pick it up and the price had gone up I’d be looking for a new supplier.  I can understand supply chain timeline uncertainty, but the price on the website better be the price at the till or they no longer have my business

Exflyboy

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #168 on: January 07, 2022, 01:46:55 PM »
Alternatively you could be talking to a dealer for 6 hours after you told him.. "I want the out the door cash price and I am bringing you a cashiers check".. Only to then find out that there is a "special" paint package that costs and extra $xxxx and is non negotiable.

Goodbye!

Needless to say the guy kept calling me.. Nope sorry you lost it now F off!

RWD

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #169 on: January 07, 2022, 10:58:05 PM »
Mercedes GLE is going to be obsoleted by the EV version soon:
https://www.motor1.com/news/556352/mercedes-eqe-suv-spy-shots/

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #170 on: January 08, 2022, 12:59:20 PM »
Like you say, SUV's really are cars with more ground clearance.. Fun for what they are but easily destroyed off pavement.
My Subaru Forester is exactly like an Impreza with vertical dimensions multiplied by 1.3. But I have taken it down roads 90% of forester owners, or 90% of Jeep owners for that matter, would not venture on. "Down" being an important part of the sentence.

Unobody vs body-on-frame. There is a difference.

Our unibody SUV has a suspension tuned for on-pavement handling. On rough roads it would shake itself to pieces unless driven moderately.

That said - I have done some towing with it. Rough gravel roads and 1500 lb camper. Towed a vintage tractor around with a chain when it couldn't start. Long distances and loaded utility trailer. Snow, mud, grassy fields, etc. Just go slow. ;)
Curious again. I lived on gravel roads until I went to college, and have spent quite a bit of time around them otherwise. Tons of people drive unibody vehicles on gravel roads regularly. I haven't noticed a disadvantage compared to a truck or old school SUV. I prefer smaller vehicles on these roads (like all roads) because of their better handling.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #171 on: January 08, 2022, 01:03:57 PM »
UPDATE:
On Monday we test drove 5 vehicles, and on Tuesday decided X5 was the one. On Monday the dealer said we could expect delivery in 3 months. On Wednesday we filled in paperwork to deposit $2,500 for the vehicle. Then the dealer said on Wednesday that on Tuesday the price had gone up $1,200 and it had not been reflected on the website yet, nor had he let us know it would or had happened, and no discount was possible, and by the way it would take at least 6 months for the vehicle to arrive. The apparent bait and switch cause the bursting of the emotional purchase bubble, so all bets are now off again. That sort of thing might be ok for someone buying 10,000 feet of pipe, but not a wise sales move for a purely emotional and frivolous consumer purchase with hundreds of alternatives, most of them better.

As someone who buys irrigation pipe all the time, I can tell you I wouldn’t be at all pleased.  If I called in an order on Monday and went in on Wednesday to pick it up and the price had gone up I’d be looking for a new supplier.  I can understand supply chain timeline uncertainty, but the price on the website better be the price at the till or they no longer have my business
True, especially if you had been talking to that same supplier for over a month while figuring out what diameter and material, and you didn't get a heads up by phone about the looming increase either.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #172 on: January 08, 2022, 01:09:41 PM »
Mercedes GLE is going to be obsoleted by the EV version soon:
https://www.motor1.com/news/556352/mercedes-eqe-suv-spy-shots/
I think that's true of many vehicles. I read it about the Volvos too, and others I forgot.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #173 on: January 08, 2022, 01:35:51 PM »
Apparently the dealer bait and switch was too much, and we are now looking at more reasonable cars, though who knows what the future holds.

The current list is:
~10 Year Future Cost   Model
 $112,747    Honda CRV Hybrid
 $114,566    Toyota RAV4 Prime PHEV
 $117,201    VW ID.4 Electric
 $128,213    Toyota Venza Hybrid
 $132,613    Chrysler Pacifica PHEV
 $144,476    Volvo XC40 Electric

We have been using the Costco auto program with the hope of getting below MSRP, but the Volvo and VW dealers withdrew from it, and the others are saying the vehicles are unavailable or are order only. We also have not even seen three of the vehicles on the list. I wouldn't expect to see an ID.4, and we are out of time to go look at the Venza and RAV4. We only sat in a 2020 CRV, no real drive.

RWD

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #174 on: January 08, 2022, 02:52:48 PM »
I wouldn't expect to see an ID.4 [...]
There should be ID.4s available for test drives. There are 444 listings for brand new ID.4s on cars.com across the country. Definitely one of the best values in EVs right now.

RWD

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #175 on: January 08, 2022, 02:55:09 PM »
I wouldn't expect to see an ID.4 [...]
There should be ID.4s available for test drives. There are 444 listings for brand new ID.4s on cars.com across the country. Definitely one of the best values in EVs right now.
Ah, I should also note that the Audi Q4 e-tron is basically the same vehicle, but supposedly a little more luxurious, for $4k more. I would guess the ID.4 would be easier to buy right now, but it could be considered as an alternative with more brand prestige.

Just Joe

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #176 on: January 08, 2022, 09:24:15 PM »
Curious again. I lived on gravel roads until I went to college, and have spent quite a bit of time around them otherwise. Tons of people drive unibody vehicles on gravel roads regularly. I haven't noticed a disadvantage compared to a truck or old school SUV. I prefer smaller vehicles on these roads (like all roads) because of their better handling.

I have no problems with unibodies. Our SUV (Acura) is just setup with a sporty suspension. It just doesn't do rough gravel roads well unless it is driven slowly. Suspension is just too tight. All most all of the vehicle's I've owned were unibodies. I've owned about 3 dozen vehicles over the years b/c I used to buy/repair/sell them for spending money.   

uniwelder

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #177 on: January 09, 2022, 02:52:02 AM »
…and we are out of time to go look at the Venza and RAV4…

What’s going on? I thought the vehicle decision was no rush.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #178 on: January 09, 2022, 01:42:17 PM »
I wouldn't expect to see an ID.4 [...]
There should be ID.4s available for test drives. There are 444 listings for brand new ID.4s on cars.com across the country. Definitely one of the best values in EVs right now.
Ah, I should also note that the Audi Q4 e-tron is basically the same vehicle, but supposedly a little more luxurious, for $4k more. I would guess the ID.4 would be easier to buy right now, but it could be considered as an alternative with more brand prestige.
The Q4 would make sense, fully loaded it is the same price as a base XC40. And the brand is worth spending money on that alone  :D   :`(   It just doesn't have enough availability, doubtful we could get one until around the end of the year without ever seeing it first (based on a conversation with a dealer in November, we just haven't pursued it farther).

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #179 on: January 09, 2022, 01:44:49 PM »
…and we are out of time to go look at the Venza and RAV4…

What’s going on? I thought the vehicle decision was no rush.
According to me there is no rush. But our work schedules 80% of the time have only one overlapping day off per week, and packing baby to go drive cars is not necessarily the best use of that day.

Just Joe

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2022, 10:14:09 AM »
Get a baby sitter. Dealers will take advantage of rushed parents of cranky babies come negotiating time...

mm1970

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2022, 01:35:55 PM »
Get a baby sitter. Dealers will take advantage of rushed parents of cranky babies come negotiating time...

Or don't...
Long ago and far away (2006), my old Saturn sorta bit the dust.  The battery would drain when it rained.  Annoying.  One Saturday morning we made an appt "down south" (30-40 miles) to drop it off at the dealer to see if they could fix it.  It was over a decade old at that point, and not worth much.  We decided the night before to look at new cars while we were there.  Started off across the street at the Toyota dealer (yeah, we'd done some research before going).  Found the Matrix.  Test drove it.  Thought about buying it.

We were there shopping with our 4 month old baby.  We were hungry for lunch.  The dealer said "if you come back, and bring us your receipt, we'll buy your lunch."
Well, we didn't only just eat lunch, we also found a Best Buy with a computer model hooked up to the internet, and did some more research on the car, by looking up the dealer price from Consumer reports.

So, we went back and made them a final offer.  They dicked around, of course, for about 2 hours
Them: "how about this much?" 
Us: "No." 
Them: "I think we can go lower, let me ask my boss...how about this much?" 
Us: "Um, that's HIGHER than the last number?"

Then, at around 3:30 or 4 pm (we'd been in the area for hours by then, and I'd already nursed the baby at least 4 times), I stood up and said "look, we aren't getting anywhere.  I'm tired, the baby's tired, we are done here."

And, we got the price. When they started the financing talk, we wrote a check.
Unlike everyone else having their picture taken with their keys, they literally threw the keys at us and said "bye". 

Sure, good deals may be hard to find these days, but don't underestimate the ability of using the baby to walk away, if you think both of you can do that.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2022, 09:41:59 PM »
In this case, we will be ordering one, and expecting to pay MSRP (but not above), because it's not like there is anything at the dealer anyhow. If we get quotes for more than MSRP we will eventually just end up with an online order car like the ID.4.

Askel

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #183 on: January 11, 2022, 06:43:00 AM »

Then, at around 3:30 or 4 pm (we'd been in the area for hours by then, and I'd already nursed the baby at least 4 times), I stood up and said "look, we aren't getting anywhere.  I'm tired, the baby's tired, we are done here."


Haha, this reminds me of the time I went with my dad to buy a car (a zero option geo metro, it's no wonder I ended up on this web site :D ).  He also had my younger sister for the day, so brought her along as well. 

My little sister found the kid's activities over in the service department while my dad and I got down to business.  My dad is clearly a fan of the "walk away" tactic and after several attempts by the dealer to come up with something and my dad threatening to head home and think about it, it looked like we weren't going to get anywhere. So after one last offer unsatisfactory offer was presented, my dad and I get up to leave and start walking out the door to our car when it hits him. 

"WAIT. SHIT. YOUR SISTER!" 

Yep, still happily playing in the service department.  Upon returning inside, the dealer was able to make to make one final offer that made something stick.  I think it was a sticker package.  So instead of a plain white zero option 1990s geo metro, we had one that looked like a fast food cup. 


Just Joe

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #184 on: January 16, 2022, 02:37:52 PM »
So instead of a plain white zero option 1990s geo metro, we had one that looked like a fast food cup.

And all the RVs for the past 30 years.... ;)

I'm a fan of walking out. Told the one and only new car dealer we bought a car with that they had ~30 minutes to get their numbers right b/c I had other things to do that day. He did and we bought the car. That was 22 years ago. Still driving that car today. He had the best price of several dealers we visited over the course of a month or so.

Just give me the price already - the final price. Haggling is such a time waster. One of the benefits of having money is not having to haggle. I witnessed car deals as a kid fail over a $50 difference after a couple of hours worth of pacing and chin scratching.

I know folks complain about CarMax but in our area, their price was very good for what we bought in 2017.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2022, 02:49:29 PM by Just Joe »

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #185 on: January 31, 2022, 10:01:30 PM »
We finally talked ourselves into a minivan! For one thing, there is around a 75% chance there will be 4 of us by the end of the year. The debate is which one? I prefer the Pacifica's. Whether you get the Stow and Go seats, or the PHEV, this is the obvious choice for both economy and utility. An AWD Pacifica with 3600 pound tow rating and nice leather seats is an Ultimate Utility Vehicle, capable of being all things to all people (except those craving good fuel economy or tight turning radius). It even has a button to park itself! The hybrid isn't nearly so useful, but 90% of our miles could be pure electric. The Honda Odyssey is a close second, the magic seats are still very useful, and I like its beige interior color best. Sienna and Carnival = :-(

Crazy time to be buying cars. Across the board, loads of options from the 2021 models are standard or unavailable. The Volvo XC40 is actually the cheapest electric SUV, since all others tack a $10,000 "market adjustment" onto MSRP. The 2022 Volvo XC40 ceased production permanently by the middle of January, now you need to wait until the 2023 model. The 2022 Pacifica Hybrid has not even started production yet, the dealer said you cannot even order one, but stay in touch and maybe you can eventually order one. The Pacifica interior now comes in any color as long as it's black (or caramel if you buy the top end). The Toyota dealer said to buy a Sienna we would be 84th on the list, which would mean 8-12 month lead time. The Sienna apparently lost the heads up display this year, why even buy a Sienna then?!?!?

Here is the new list. If some numbers are different, its because I have been changing my trims and methodology. We will probably be going for a Pacifica Hybrid Limited!

10-Year Opportunity Cost
 $122,115    VWID.4 Electric
$128,670    Chrysler Pacifica LTD PHEV
 $136,048    Chrysler Pacifica Pinnacle PHEV
 $136,292    Volvo XC40 Electric
 $149,965    Chrysler Pacifica TouringL FWD
 $150,767    Toyota Sienna Hybrid
 $155,248    Honda Odyssey Elite
 $156,188    Audi E-Tron Electric
 $164,246    Chrysler Pacifica LTD AWD
 $194,326    BMW X5 PHEV

elaine amj

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #186 on: February 01, 2022, 01:26:39 AM »
I debated between the minivan brands. And ultimately could not see myself without stow n go.

We have used it sooooooo much in the past 1.5 years. I love being able to flip and flop seats to reconfigure things. It’s pretty astonishing how often I use it.

I could not go hybrid because you loose second row stow n go (to house the battery).


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joe189man

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #187 on: February 01, 2022, 09:25:11 PM »
@Radagast i am surprised you don't like the sienna, its a hybrid and has AWD, Consumer reports has the carnival and sienna as the top buys.

one thing that led us to an odyssey over the pacifica a few years ago was the Pacifica didnt have a spare or a full size spare. we had an issue with a flat on a cross country trip a while back and DW said never again.

HPstache

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #188 on: February 01, 2022, 10:04:59 PM »
Quite the, uh... shift in vehicles here.

ysette9

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Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #189 on: February 01, 2022, 10:37:43 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #190 on: February 02, 2022, 09:05:44 AM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)

ysette9

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #191 on: February 02, 2022, 12:42:08 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.

Chris22

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #192 on: February 02, 2022, 01:15:36 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.

I don’t like minivans either but I love the Stellantis PHEV platform and it’s the most reasonable way to get it (my way was decidedly unreasonable but I don’t care)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #193 on: February 02, 2022, 01:29:56 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.
Out of curiosity, what is the principle driving your visceral dislike for minivans?

boarder42

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #194 on: February 02, 2022, 01:53:53 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.
Out of curiosity, what is the principle driving your visceral dislike for minivans?

Yeah I'm curious as well the second hand market is incredibly affordable. For my giant 6'4 frame it's far easier with child seats. The utility and being able to open and close all doors with a button. As well as the sliding doors when in a parking lot with other cars parked closely to unload and load kids. The ability to empty out the back and fit all sorts of things when I need to haul larger amounts of stuff. The list keeps going.

If you'd just said bike trailer that'd be one thing respected in these parts but you said luxury SUV which means you just have a psychological problem with the idea of the car bc of how it's been branded in society?

elaine amj

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #195 on: February 02, 2022, 11:56:09 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.
Awww..I’ve had a minivan since my 2nd baby. My kids are adults now and when my old one needed replacing, I bought another one. I don’t know if I could ever handle life without one again lol. I adore all the storage space as we road trip a lot. The cooking supplies alone take up a ton of space (DH is a cancer warrior who eats a certain way so I usually lug along an instant pot for his soups and a large juicer for his daily juice. And of course, a giant cooler because I hate the time and extra expense of grocery shopping at vacation destinations. Many times I wish the vitamix came along too lol!) I also buy most of my stuff secondhand so the minivan comes in super handy.

I’ve looked at friends’ vehicles and nothing comes close to the space and flexibility of the minivan.


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mm1970

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #196 on: February 03, 2022, 01:46:31 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.
I LOVE minivans.  I WANT a minivan.

I am seriously considering a small SUV.

But alas, in reality, as crappy as it is, my 2006 Matrix just won't die.

---

Why do I want a minivan?  Leg room.  Road trip storage.  Hauling stuff for home improvement.  TOWING a camper/ trailer. 

All those things we don't do...but would we?  Would we actually like camping more if we didn't have to stuff 4 people + a dog's gear in the back of a Matrix and into a Thule box?
I mean, we could have more room.  We could camp in a camper not a tent... 

Would we go on longer road trips if either my teenager or I didn't have to sit scrunched in the back seat?  Scrunching does not help the 2 of us (him and I) who get carsick.
---

I do like that tight turning radius on the Matrix tho...

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #197 on: February 03, 2022, 03:00:03 PM »
I’m a slow one here so bear with me. Why does a family of four mean a minivan? We are a family of five in a GTI (Golf).
OP started off with a spouse that wanted a luxury SUV, which, around here, is considered to be a tremendously vulgar waste of money.  Getting the spouse to agree to a minivan represents tremendous progress.  Sure, their needs could be met with a sedan, but we recognize the progress that has been made :)
Ok, ok. I just have a visceral dislike of minivans on principle. Personally I’d go back to the luxury SUV before going down minivan territory. Hell, I’d ride a cargo bike with a bike trailer attached to the back before a minivan.
I LOVE minivans.  I WANT a minivan.

I am seriously considering a small SUV.

But alas, in reality, as crappy as it is, my 2006 Matrix just won't die.

---

Why do I want a minivan?  Leg room.  Road trip storage.  Hauling stuff for home improvement.  TOWING a camper/ trailer. 

All those things we don't do...but would we?  Would we actually like camping more if we didn't have to stuff 4 people + a dog's gear in the back of a Matrix and into a Thule box?
I mean, we could have more room.  We could camp in a camper not a tent... 

Would we go on longer road trips if either my teenager or I didn't have to sit scrunched in the back seat?  Scrunching does not help the 2 of us (him and I) who get carsick.
---

I do like that tight turning radius on the Matrix tho...
FWIW, I've seen lots of instances where people make purchases (often large ones!), hoping it will help them change.  For example, gym memberships and treadmill sales spike in January.  From what I've seen, if someone really wants something, they'll find ways of doing it, with or without the extra purchase.  Lack of motivation is a much stronger inhibitor than inconvenience.  Without that intrinsic motivation, that aspirational treadmill purchase rapidly turns into a very expensive clothing rack.

If you're already camping regularly, then sure, a camper may increase your enjoyment.  If you already take road trips, then a car with more leg room will make a difference.

If you're looking for a more comfortable vehicle for longer trips, you might consider a mid-size or larger sedan.  A Camry or Accord will be way more comfortable for a long trip, albeit with less baggage space.  Or maybe even go for an Avalon--I've heard they are positively heavenly for longer drives.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #198 on: February 04, 2022, 09:49:51 AM »
I debated between the minivan brands. And ultimately could not see myself without stow n go.

We have used it sooooooo much in the past 1.5 years. I love being able to flip and flop seats to reconfigure things. It’s pretty astonishing how often I use it.

I could not go hybrid because you loose second row stow n go (to house the battery).


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I really like the stow and go seats, but the primary use of the van would be trips under 32 miles per day with maybe 50% "city" driving, so the hybrid is ideal. The extra 10-year cost of $30,000 isn't worth it.

Radagast

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Re: Spouse wants luxury SUV!
« Reply #199 on: February 04, 2022, 10:46:02 AM »
@Radagast i am surprised you don't like the sienna, its a hybrid and has AWD, Consumer reports has the carnival and sienna as the top buys.

one thing that led us to an odyssey over the pacifica a few years ago was the Pacifica didnt have a spare or a full size spare. we had an issue with a flat on a cross country trip a while back and DW said never again.
If I ranked by just how good the vehicles are (excluding reliability, fuel economy, and cost) I would rank:
1 Regular Pacifica. As good as any of the others, but the stowable seats put it over the top
2 Odyssey, not as many whiz bang features as a Carnival, but better thought out, and best turning radius
3 Carnival, nicer but not as well sorted as the Odyssey, acts like a bigger vehicle than it should
4 Pacifica Hybrid loses a few options, especially configurable seats
5 Sienna Really just doesn't do anything well except AWD, and easily the least pleasant to be in.

Ranking by cost/reliability/resale value:
1. Pacifica Hybrid. The tax credit and electric range easily put it over the top.
2. Sienna head and shoulders above the rest, except it doesn't have the PHEV advantages
3. Carnival, average, low price, great warranty, but bad fuel economy and not even AWD to show for it
4. Odyssey doesn't do anything bad, but nothing great either.
5. Pacifica expensive, poor resale, fuel economy average or worst (AWD), not especially reliable

Basically the lists are just reversed, except the Sienna and Pac Hybrid, which moves those models to the bottom and top of my value rankings, respectively. Whoever designed the Carnival had different priorities than me, so I'd stay away. The Odyssey and standard Pacifica are tied for second.

Lack of spare tire is concerning.