Article: Stop idolising penny pinchers

[mustachepungoeshere]

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2015/12/sean_cooper_paid_his_mortgage_in_3_years_by_saving_ignore_his_story.html

[kendallf]

Helaine Olen has made a career out of writing indignant "It's not your fault" articles.  It bugs me to read this over and over; her solution is not to live "parsimoniously", but to agitate for change!  ..blah blah blah..  Again the mindset that equates frugality with sacrifice, Kraft macaroni dinners and 100 hour weeks.

Hello, Wake The Fuck Up.

Why not live frugally and simply, be happy, AND promote societal change for the less fortunate?  They're not mutually exclusive.

It sells more articles to the masses to pretend that they are, though.

[Abe]

She doesn't provide any data to support her central conclusion, which is thriftiness promotion is just a way to keep us subjugated: "But if a downturn lasts long enough, people will eventually realize they’ve been had. There is, it turns out, only so much budgeting can accomplish." Such as owning your own house and saving hundreds of thousands on interest? Sign me up!
Mr Cooper's situation demonstrates essentially the opposite of what she claims is possible. 

[galliver]

Helaine Olen has made a career out of writing indignant "It's not your fault" articles.  It bugs me to read this over and over; her solution is not to live "parsimoniously", but to agitate for change!  ..blah blah blah..  Again the mindset that equates frugality with sacrifice, Kraft macaroni dinners and 100 hour weeks.

Hello, Wake The Fuck Up.

Why not live frugally and simply, be happy, AND promote societal change for the less fortunate?  They're not mutually exclusive.

It sells more articles to the masses to pretend that they are, though.

This. I hate the "well he/she/you/they should just get a second/third/fourth job and/or work more hours!" argument sometimes made. I could see it as a stopgap measure for a weird situation, but we shouldn't build our culture/society around that. I see taking a second, entry-level job to be taking that job (or work/business in the case of e.g. Uber) from someone who may not have a first job and thus could use it more. Freelancing with a skilled hobby on the side is a little different, especially if you might transition to it full time, but taking a supermarket job that you  might be beating out a teenager or college student for?

And I realize that kind of comes across as "jobs(/work) are finite" which I don't really mean or believe, but I guess I do think that people higher up the economic ladder and skills ladder are in a better place to find unique work opportunities and start businesses than the teenager hoping to get the grocery store job (or move up to the meat counter, opening up a different position for some other teenager). Also, unions campaigned for the 8 hr workday for a reason and it's sad to see it slipping away. I think we do need time to exercise, to relax, to raise children, to cook, to mend our clothes, to sleep 8 hrs/night, etc.

But, as you also said, you can live a simpler life and still accomplish those goals without going to insane lengths. I applaud Mr. Cooper for living in his basement and restricting his travel and entertainment (though I wonder if his mother missed him...).

[Kris]

Omg I came here to post this.

Stop making us feel bad for not having control of our soending!!!! *whine*

[kite]

The irony of a lefty e-zine calling for censorship because the subtext offends people. 

Imagine if instead of personal finances, the subject was cancer and she was calling on journalists not to talk about quitting smoking, because that would make sick people think it was all their fault. Newsflash - they likely already do.  Even when it's a random dose of bad luck, our brains are wired to seek cause & effect so we blame ourselves  (or the mother) when no cause is apparent. But a good bunch of the time, our problems are self inflicted.  If we can't learn that, we can neither avoid problems nor fix the troubles we created.

All the "It's not your fault" talk robs people of agency.  It's the soft-bigotry-of-low-expectations.  The subtext there is that there is no hope and that it won't get better. 

[justajane]

I think the only legitimate criticism that can be made of this guy is that his money saved by penny pinching would have served him better in an investment account. But the idea that his penny pinching doesn't deserve admiration or a pat on the back? Silly. Or that there is an implicit criticism of others who chose a different path. Of course it's easier for him to do than it would be a family of five, but that doesn't diminish his accomplishment.

Plus I don't see why believing in income inequality and the power of frugality are somehow mutually exclusive like kendallf so eloquently said above.

[MudDuck]

I came to post this, too. I was wondering if others found this to be as irritating as I did.

Apparently so.

[Gondolin]

The arguments are so straw man that they defy belief. "Media organs" don't interview frugal people like Sean Cooper because they "idolize penny pinchers". They do it because it's a good "weirdo obsession story" that will intrigue people with its deviantion from normality. In terms of journalism, "Man saves and performs financial feat" is on par with "Man memorizes entire dictionary to win Scrabble tournament".

Then again, whenever I see nonsensical clickbait like this my first thought is, "Wait, write nonsense at a 4th grade level? I can do that! How much will can I get paid??"

[TheGrimSqueaker]

The arguments are so straw man that they defy belief. "Media organs" don't interview frugal people like Sean Cooper because they "idolize penny pinchers". They do it because it's a good "weirdo obsession story" that will intrigue people with its deviantion from normality. In terms of journalism, "Man saves and performs financial feat" is on par with "Man memorizes entire dictionary to win Scrabble tournament".

Then again, whenever I see nonsensical clickbait like this my first thought is, "Wait, write nonsense at a 4th grade level? I can do that! How much will can I get paid??"

I'm having a little Beavis-and-Butthead style giggle at "media organs", and recalling that the colon is an organ that is frequently full of shit.

[sw1tch]

The irony of a lefty e-zine calling for censorship because the subtext offends people. 

Imagine if instead of personal finances, the subject was cancer and she was calling on journalists not to talk about quitting smoking, because that would make sick people think it was all their fault. Newsflash - they likely already do.  Even when it's a random dose of bad luck, our brains are wired to seek cause & effect so we blame ourselves  (or the mother) when no cause is apparent. But a good bunch of the time, our problems are self inflicted.  If we can't learn that, we can neither avoid problems nor fix the troubles we created.

All the "It's not your fault" talk robs people of agency.  It's the soft-bigotry-of-low-expectations.  The subtext there is that there is no hope and that it won't get better.

Quoted for truth.  The biggest changes I've ever made in my life happened after I realized that it was my own damn fault that I was in the situation that I was in.

[Marus]

The arguments are so straw man that they defy belief. "Media organs" don't interview frugal people like Sean Cooper because they "idolize penny pinchers". They do it because it's a good "weirdo obsession story" that will intrigue people with its deviantion from normality. In terms of journalism, "Man saves and performs financial feat" is on par with "Man memorizes entire dictionary to win Scrabble tournament".

Then again, whenever I see nonsensical clickbait like this my first thought is, "Wait, write nonsense at a 4th grade level? I can do that! How much will can I get paid??"

I would suspect the average person reading an article about him would say "that's a cute story.  Good for him, but I'm not obsessed with paying down my mortgage and I have other things I'd rather focus on."

For what it's worth, I thought the suze quote in the article was pretty reprehensible.  Talk about kicking people when they're down.

[Syonyk]

I think the only legitimate criticism that can be made of this guy is that his money saved by penny pinching would have served him better in an investment account.

It depends on what the person wants.

I fully intend to pay my mortgage off in a hurry once I have one, because I value *not having debt* more than a bit of extra paper wealth.

[arebelspy]

I think the only legitimate criticism that can be made of this guy is that his money saved by penny pinching would have served him better in an investment account.

It depends on what the person wants.

I fully intend to pay my mortgage off in a hurry once I have one, because I value *not having debt* more than a bit of extra paper wealth.

What you are saying with that sentence is you value a feeling (whatever feeling you get from not having debt) over time (an earlier FIRE).

Which is fine. There may be any number of reasons that's the case (maybe you love your job, aren't going to RE, and are okay delaying FI for that feeling).

But you put it as "an extra bit of paper wealth" when in actuality it translates to months or years of your life.

That's significant, to me.

[Syonyk]

Actually, it's more a factor of a large paycheck, a cheap house, and general pessimism about the continued chances of the market going up over the long term as we run into many, many headwinds that seem to put a damper on continued exponential expansion on a finite planet.  Oil, water, food, climate effects, boomers retiring and selling off assets for retirement, etc.  I'd rather not subject myself to that uncertainty over a 30 year span.  My cost of living with a decent set of gardens and a paid off house will be insanely low, regardless of what the market does.

Yes, I'm aware that over the past N hundred years, the market has never gone down over a sufficiently prolonged period, and I'm fine with losing out on the potential investment income for not having the uncertainty and the potential losses involved.  I have plenty in the markets already, but I don't have 30 years worth of faith in the current trends.

[joleran]

Again the mindset that equates frugality with sacrifice, Kraft macaroni dinners and 100 hour weeks.

For me, Kraft macaroni dinner is a treat because it's comfort food from growing up but terribly unhealthy!

[2ndTimer]

I read this article with an evil chuckle.  The more people are convinced that frugality is not a good idea, the more opportunity for a bottom feeder like me.  I want people to believe they need the newest and best of everything so I can pick up last year's version at the thrift store for pennies. 

[Kitsune]

Again the mindset that equates frugality with sacrifice, Kraft macaroni dinners and 100 hour weeks.

For me, Kraft macaroni dinner is a treat because it's comfort food from growing up but terribly unhealthy!

Also because to feel full, I'd basically need to eat an entire box, and for the cost of 3 boxes of Kraft Dinner (to feed the family) I can make a really excellent chickpea curry and have leftovers. And that's healthier, tastier, and leaves us feeling significantly less deprived than mac and cheese that leaves us feeling bloated and unable to move on the couch...

[stlbrah]

I don't like articles talking about how bad skipping a latte to save money is. The only thing that really sounded that bad about his lifestyle was the mac and cheese instead of healthier alternatives like oats or rice+beans. They should be forced to spend some time sleeping in the dirt and eating tortillas or white rice all day and no electricity and then it won't sound so bad.

[Gronnie]

One good thing about the article is that the top comment is:

Why not praise him? He set a goal for himself and worked hard to achieve it. He made a logical decision to work hard in the short term for greater freedom in the long term. Awesome for him!