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[sol]

my point was to agree with you, and clarify more on the "preserve the union" theory.

it was economic; the war and the EP

in one swoop you gain more troops and cripple the rebels economically.


any more antagonism?

My mistake, I misread your messages. Can we be friends?

depends, do you have cookies? if so, let the peace talks commence!

You two are doing the internet all wrong.  You're supposed to be making Hitler comparisons by now.

[eljefe-speaks]

[Mike Tyson] once made a grizzly attempt to bite another man's ear off.

And now I'm picturing Mike Tyson trying to convince a grizzly bear to attack someone. Admittedly it's an awesome mental image - if I could draw I would definitely illustrate that. But nonetheless, this is why writers should know the difference between "grizzly" and "grisly."

Haaaaaaa! Some well-timed humor in this thread.

[MgoSam]

my point was to agree with you, and clarify more on the "preserve the union" theory.

it was economic; the war and the EP

in one swoop you gain more troops and cripple the rebels economically.


any more antagonism?

My mistake, I misread your messages. Can we be friends?

depends, do you have cookies? if so, let the peace talks commence!

You two are doing the internet all wrong.  You're supposed to be making Hitler comparisons by now.

I don't have any, but wouldn't mind making some.

[regulator]

I am frankly mystified why people still take the North/South thing so personally at this stage of the game.  It happened 150 years ago.  Interesting history, but that is about it.

[forummm]

my point was to agree with you, and clarify more on the "preserve the union" theory.

it was economic; the war and the EP

in one swoop you gain more troops and cripple the rebels economically.


any more antagonism?

My mistake, I misread your messages. Can we be friends?

depends, do you have cookies? if so, let the peace talks commence!

This was seems pretty civil.

[Mississippi Mudstache]

That's a bit harsh. We're all products of our environments.

Yes it is.  Not quite as harsh as owning people, though.

I don't dispute that people do evil things because they are products of their circumstances.  I also don't excuse them for doing evil things, regardless of their justifications.

I don't want to belabor this point, but I'm not completely convinced that you or I are completely free of beliefs and actions that won't be viewed as ridiculous, backwards, or just evil through by people 150 years into the future. What if the consensus liberal opinion in the unified socialist nation of EurAmeriChina 150 from today is that capitalism was completely evil - oppressive to the poor, destructive towards the earth - unconscionably and obviously evil. Yet the vast swaths of the middle class simply accepted it, and defended it, fought for it, even though we knew its benefits were heavily tilted towards the rich elite. How do we, as people who meet here every day to glibly discuss how we profit from this system, appear through the lens of time if this system is one day declared as untenable as slavery, serfdom, or all the other systems of economic oppression that have been employed over the years?

Maybe I'm overthinking this, but I'm convinced that you're underthinking it. That is all.

[sol]

I'm convinced that you're underthinking it. That is all.

That's not an accusation I hear very often.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Hell, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton publicly opposed gay marriage in 2008, and now that view would be outrageous for any Democrat.

(I encouraged my parents to vote against Texas's gay marriage ban in the mid-2000s when I was in high school, so I guess I was substantially more tolerant than the national Democratic party until 2013 or so.)

[Mississippi Mudstache]

I'm convinced that you're underthinking it. That is all.

That's not an accusation I hear very often.

Haha. I like that you have a very different perspective than most people on the forum regarding certain topics, and I appreciate that you're willing to share, even when you invite criticism. I disagree with you on this point, but you're no stranger to disagreement :)

Hell, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton publicly opposed gay marriage in 2008, and now that view would be outrageous for any Democrat.

(I encouraged my parents to vote against Texas's gay marriage ban in the mid-2000s when I was in high school, so I guess I was substantially more tolerant than the national Democratic party until 2013 or so.)

It's really incredible how quickly public opinion has changed on that topic in less than a decade. I think the tipping point was when the millenials started coming of voting age. At least they're good for something, amiright?

[brooklynguy]

That's a bit harsh. We're all products of our environments.

Yes it is.  Not quite as harsh as owning people, though.

I don't dispute that people do evil things because they are products of their circumstances.  I also don't excuse them for doing evil things, regardless of their justifications.

I don't want to belabor this point, but I'm not completely convinced that you or I are completely free of beliefs and actions that won't be viewed as ridiculous, backwards, or just plain evil through by people 150 years into the future.

Mud, I think sol's statement would find more sympathy if the root words "excuse" and "justify" were swapped:

"I also don't justify them for doing evil things, regardless of their excuses."

[Elderwood17]

I am frankly mystified why people still take the North/South thing so personally at this stage of the game.  It happened 150 years ago.  Interesting history, but that is about it.

I agree.  Granted, my ancestry in this country only goes back two generations before me, and I have lived in the north, south and in between so I have no personal connection, but I have never quite understood my friends who hold such strong views on the topic. 

[nobodyspecial]

Amen.  They fought and died for the right to treat human beings as property.  Fuck those folks, and I say that as a man with much southern ancestry myself.   No one needs to be proud of their racist ancestors.

Whereas the northern ones who merely exterminated the indigenous population as part of their manifest destiny to control and exploit the new lands were humanitarian idealists ?

That's a bit like claiming the British empire fought the Boer war to pre-emptively solve apartheid

[lemanfan]

I am frankly mystified why people still take the North/South thing so personally at this stage of the game.  It happened 150 years ago.  Interesting history, but that is about it.

Just give it time. 

People in my corner of sweden sometimes takes a warlike situations from 4-500 years ago personally or make it part of their cultural identity...

(for the swedes/danes here, I'm talking about people from Skåne and Småland now...).

[forummm]

I don't want to belabor this point, but I'm not completely convinced that you or I are completely free of beliefs and actions that won't be viewed as ridiculous, backwards, or just evil through by people 150 years into the future.

I am absolutely certain this is true. Whether it's capitalism, inequality, callous disregard for the health of people in other nations, starting wars at will, burning fossil fuels, filling the ocean with plastic, filling the world with toxic chemicals, etc, there are many, many things that future humanity will look back on with disgust.

[forummm]

I don't want to belabor this point, but I'm not completely convinced that you or I are completely free of beliefs and actions that won't be viewed as ridiculous, backwards, or just evil through by people 150 years into the future.

I am absolutely certain this is true. Whether it's capitalism, inequality, callous disregard for the health of people in other nations, starting wars at will, burning fossil fuels, filling the ocean with plastic, filling the world with toxic chemicals, etc, there are many, many things that future humanity will look back on with disgust.

Our criminal justice system is another thing that could be added to the list.