Author Topic: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase  (Read 40082 times)

frugalecon

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Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« on: February 18, 2014, 04:46:35 AM »
Had a text exchange with my sister over the weekend. In one of them, she mentioned she had just bought a new car, a few months after paying off her last one (a BMW). Both she and the hubby drive BMWs, in keeping with their spendy ways. A couple of years ago they had to come up with $10,000 after an IRS audit, and since they were broke they "borrowed" it from our parents, who are on fixed income. Of course they didn't bother to pay it back. After I didn't call to congratulate her about the car purchase, she texted me how much I had hurt her feelings. Whoo boy.

My tongue is hurting from biting it, because I haven't asked when they plan to repay my parents. I just couldn't bring myself to get all excited about what is likely a luxury car purchase.

AlanStache

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2014, 06:00:43 AM »
Maybe if your parents has let the loan go then you should too and only remember there actions if they ever try to hit you up.  Also there is a fine art to acknowledging new stupid purchases without congratulating someone, try to make it a game.  "Wow that is a really great looking new car, must be fun to drive.  Gee I could never buy one myself I'm just to addicted to not having a car payment."  Sounds like you might do best sort of hiding your mmm ways, or at least the monetary results of your mmm ways :-)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2014, 06:11:44 AM »
Also there is a fine art to acknowledging new stupid purchases without congratulating someone, try to make it a game.  "Wow that is a really great looking new car, must be fun to drive.  Gee I could never buy one myself I'm just to addicted to not having a car payment."

I love this response!

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2014, 06:13:53 AM »
Maybe if your parents has let the loan go then you should too and only remember there actions if they ever try to hit you up.  Also there is a fine art to acknowledging new stupid purchases without congratulating someone, try to make it a game.  "Wow that is a really great looking new car, must be fun to drive.  Gee I could never buy one myself I'm just to addicted to not having a car payment."  Sounds like you might do best sort of hiding your mmm ways, or at least the monetary results of your mmm ways :-)

AlanStache, Good advice. I know that it would be more healthy for me to let go of my feelings about the "loan." Part of my anger is that my dad had already been diagnosed with dementia at that point, and I felt that they were taking advantage of someone who was already in a compromised state.

BPA

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2014, 06:16:10 AM »
I have to admit that I am the kind of person who would say that I find it hard to celebrate her new car when she didn't have the money for her audit...but only because she initiated the discussion, otherwise I would have ignored.

mamagoose

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2014, 06:16:42 AM »
Slightly OT but I had a text exchange with my sister this weekend where she told me about her latest cosmetic surgery. I didn't respond and now wondering if I should have feigned more interest in the subject, even though I really don't care that she got her lady bits rearranged by choice.

happy

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2014, 06:29:17 AM »
Sometimes less is more..... families pfft. Its really hard to know all the nitty-gritty, and see peoples warts and all, and still keep a big picture perspective.  Personally I try to keep out of the scrum, but sometimes that backfires too.

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2014, 06:44:46 AM »
Slightly OT but I had a text exchange with my sister this weekend where she told me about her latest cosmetic surgery. I didn't respond and now wondering if I should have feigned more interest in the subject, even though I really don't care that she got her lady bits rearranged by choice.

It is hard to know how to respond to this. How about: "I hope that the surgery works and you look a lot better!"

As far as my sister is concerned, it is odd to me that someone expects congratulations over buying a car. As a public transit rider and pedestrian, cars just don't loom very large in my life. But I guess I should have known that it meant more to my sister. She got her first car at age 14, when she convinced my father to buy her an MG convertible. She has been a car fiend ever since. (As a comparison, I didn't get my first car until I was 22, when my parents gave me a used Toyota Tercel (no AC, no carpeting, no radio) as a graduation gift. I am almost 50, and I have only owned 3 cars in my entire life.)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2014, 08:33:52 AM »
As far as my sister is concerned, it is odd to me that someone expects congratulations over buying a car. As a public transit rider and pedestrian, cars just don't loom very large in my life.

yeah, I find it odd too. the only time I could see a congratulations being in order is if it's the person's first car ever, or you know they've been driving a raggedy, stressful beater car for a while and trying to save up for a new one, and finally did. as far as "I upgraded my car even though I didn't need to, please congratulate me on buying something!!" ... I don't really get it.

TreeTired

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2014, 08:42:59 AM »
I would congratulate her on the expensive car purchase if I was the car dealer.

Luck12

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2014, 09:00:57 AM »
I would've replied "Congrats on adding new debt and additional years of working!".  Then again, I have no qualms about being an asshole in these situations. 

frugalman

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2014, 10:02:51 AM »
I would've replied "Congrats on adding new debt and additional years of working!".  Then again, I have no qualms about being an asshole in these situations.

My mother in law is a hoarder. After her husband died, she started really accumulating stuff. Then she ran out of money, and started taking out mortgage loans, and then refinancing them every couple of years. Now she can't cash flow the payments and groceries/electric. Other family members have said "why don't you help Mom out" just because we have money because we don't buy tons of shit or have debt. I hate the whole concept of family means we have to be personally responsible for dear old Mom's spendthrift ways. After paying her property taxes last year, I told her and dear wife no more. She can call Social Services for help for all I care. DW is now taking her to the food shelf once a month. "Other family members" think I'm an asshole, maybe I am. But enough is enough.

P.S. she acquired two pianos for her stacked to the ceiling living room even though she can't play piano!
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 10:06:48 AM by frugalman »

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2014, 10:32:28 AM »
I would've replied "Congrats on adding new debt and additional years of working!".  Then again, I have no qualms about being an asshole in these situations.

My mother in law is a hoarder. After her husband died, she started really accumulating stuff. Then she ran out of money, and started taking out mortgage loans, and then refinancing them every couple of years. Now she can't cash flow the payments and groceries/electric. Other family members have said "why don't you help Mom out" just because we have money because we don't buy tons of shit or have debt. I hate the whole concept of family means we have to be personally responsible for dear old Mom's spendthrift ways. After paying her property taxes last year, I told her and dear wife no more. She can call Social Services for help for all I care. DW is now taking her to the food shelf once a month. "Other family members" think I'm an asshole, maybe I am. But enough is enough.

P.S. she acquired two pianos for her stacked to the ceiling living room even though she can't play piano!

Your issue is related to some of my frustration with my sister. When she drains my parents' assets (and they spent lavishly on her...two weddings, two divorces, lawyers for various legal scrapes, etc.) like she did with the tax situation, it moves up the date at which their assets will be exhausted. And when people look around to find someone to cut checks to keep them comfortable, will they focus on the ones with car payments, mortgage payments, credit card balances, etc.? I expect not. They will turn to the frugal, mortgage-free, high-net-worth person.

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2014, 10:53:54 AM »
Your issue is related to some of my frustration with my sister. When she drains my parents' assets (and they spent lavishly on her...two weddings, two divorces, lawyers for various legal scrapes, etc.) like she did with the tax situation, it moves up the date at which their assets will be exhausted. And when people look around to find someone to cut checks to keep them comfortable, will they focus on the ones with car payments, mortgage payments, credit card balances, etc.? I expect not. They will turn to the frugal, mortgage-free, high-net-worth person.

I think you need to sort out how much is bitterness about parental inequity and how much is you being different.  My siblings and I are very different.  I'm frugal, they are not.  They make great money and aren't in debt.  If they buy X consumer product I couldn't care less about then I say "congrats, I know you've wanted that".  It's polite, it's nice, and I'm not lying about liking something I don't care about.  I think that's what siblings should do generally when they're different.

Where your story is different is that you probably deserve equal treatment from your parents but she gets benefits because she is wasteful.  I think you need to either accept it or deal with it head on.  If it bothers you, make it known.  I think squabbles like this one are a side effect of being angry about that unequal treatment (and also her putting her consumer habits above your parent's financial health).  I've done the whole airing grievances and it made me happier even if the situation didn't exactly change since we came to an understanding.

(Sorry if you weren't asking for this kind of advice! I've just seen bitter parent/child relationships because of this kind of thing.  Ignore if it's not helpful to you! :) )

Mori

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2014, 10:57:32 AM »
After I didn't call to congratulate her about the car purchase, she texted me how much I had hurt her feelings. Whoo boy.

My tongue is hurting from biting it, because I haven't asked when they plan to repay my parents. I just couldn't bring myself to get all excited about what is likely a luxury car purchase.

How tempting it must have been to say something nasty. Though I probably would have went with something like, "Sorry, I didn't realize it was that important. You know I don't care about cars."

I'd try to let the loan go but be vigilant on any other financial issues with your parents and sibling-- are all the appropriate documents filed so that it won't be an issue later (wills, trusts, POA, medical POA, etc.)?

CommonCents

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2014, 10:58:19 AM »
"Congratulations, that's awesome you're doing better financially to be able to buy a really nice car like a BMW.  I bet it's a super comfy ride.  I know mom & dad will also be excited by this news that you're doing so much better and they'll soon get the money they loaned you back, since dad isn't doing so well health-wise these days."

Exflyboy

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2014, 11:07:47 AM »
I'm sorry but my Sister would have gotten it both barrels.. No tougue biting for me.

like "how dare you go and buy such a waste of money when you owe our Parents a ton of cash?'.. Don't ever think of asking me for any money for any reason.

Appalling behaviour and she is probably clueless... These people disgust me!.. and yes I'd tell her that too.

Frank

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2014, 11:08:23 AM »
Wow. I understand the feeling of being excited about a newly purchased _________ (fill in the blank). I've even showed off a new toy to a family member/friend and I'm sure they've seen how excited I was about it. I would never do this now, but even when I remember doing it in the past I can't imagine ever being upset if someone didn't respond with the same excitement I'd shown.

This reminds me of something I discovered through MMM. It was via one of his financial blog suggestions at the bottom of his site, brave new life (BNL). It's a very interesting speech about the perspective of a human being. If you have 20 minutes to kill, it's worth a listen.

This is water: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI

greenmimama

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2014, 11:50:41 AM »
Your sister sounds like a piece of work, my DH and I both have 1 brother and we fake our enthusiasm over their new car purchases because it's important to them, but both of them are in a position to afford it and don't borrow from our parents. They like cars a lot, we both feel they are a necc. evil to get from A to B, so we get excited for them.

ThermionicScott

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2014, 09:53:05 PM »
Slightly OT but I had a text exchange with my sister this weekend where she told me about her latest cosmetic surgery. I didn't respond and now wondering if I should have feigned more interest in the subject, even though I really don't care that she got her lady bits rearranged by choice.

It is hard to know how to respond to this. How about: "I hope that the surgery works and you look a lot better!"

That's a nice way to put it.  I'd be fighting the temptation to say something like:  "Oh, thank God you're finally taking care of that."  She's fishing for a response, after all.

theSchmett

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2014, 02:30:33 AM »
am I the only sarcastic one on the Internet?

Next time you splurge, maybe its a cnice bottle of wine or new work boots... text her a pic. When she doesn't congratulate you...forward her message back to her with car replaced by oh wait this is better... "hey I just got my tax refund! Woot!"

I say use sarcasm and peer pressure.

"I was confused, it looks just like the old car".

Or maybe its 4:30 am and I'm just in a mood.

jdoolin

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2014, 06:41:12 AM »
Yeah, I really don't get how purchasing a car is worthy of congratulations.  I even felt weird about it when people told me that about buying my house a few months ago.  I had never bought a house before, so I wasn't expecting all of the "congratulations" we got, and I thought it was kinda strange.

Anyway, what exactly are you congratulating?  I mean, like the above poster said, if this was a first car purchase where someone worked hard, saved and paid for it that's one thing.  But just replacing a previously fine car with another one?  That's not really an accomplishment in any way.  It's just signing some paperwork.

I've also noticed that it's not worthy of congratulations when someone just upgrades their old Civic to a newer Corolla.  So it seems to be tied to the nature of the car that's purchased.  Certain cars are more worthy of congratulations than others.  But even that isn't an accomplishment.  Everybody knows that a BMW or a Benz is a "nicer" car, so it's not like it required some sort of expertise to make the decision.

My theory:  congratulating someone on a car purchase is effectively congratulating them on their acquisition of a status upgrade.  Even upgrading the BMW is saying, "My status has increased because I have leveled up my car.  Not only do I have a BMW, I have a NEW BMW."

LibraTraci

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2014, 12:49:05 PM »
Perfect response to sister would be:  "Wow.  I didn't realize you had already paid mom and dad back!"

Since the opportunity has already passed, I would encourage you to practice a certain amount of authenticity in what you say in the future.  So, while you *could* hold your tongue and not reveal any hint of your true feelings, I think it's preferable to give them the truthful but toned-down version -- something like, "You know, I'm honestly a bit disappointed that you upgraded your cars before paying mom and dad back.  I think they've been really good to us both and I'd love to see you take that obligation off the back burner so that they know you appreciate them." 

Honestly, I believe it's good to practice authenticity *unless* you find yourself dealing with ugly feelings or inappropriate emotions.  (Like, don't ever tell your little brother, "You know, I'm honestly a bit happy that your wife divorced you.  You've always been smarter than me, so I like seeing life give you a screw-job here and there.")

   

lentilman

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2014, 09:24:46 AM »
There is a line that I use in these situations (adapted from a Seinfeld episode on an ugly baby) that is perfect because it allows me to be honest and misunderstood at the same time.

Wow, that (fill in the blank here) is truly breathtaking. 

impaire

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2014, 10:26:57 AM »
Slightly OT but I had a text exchange with my sister this weekend where she told me about her latest cosmetic surgery. I didn't respond and now wondering if I should have feigned more interest in the subject, even though I really don't care that she got her lady bits rearranged by choice.

It is hard to know how to respond to this. How about: "I hope that the surgery works and you look a lot better!"

That's a nice way to put it.  I'd be fighting the temptation to say something like:  "Oh, thank God you're finally taking care of that."  She's fishing for a response, after all.

But by lady bits, you mean... Lady bits? In which case I hope you're not actually qualified to answer!

To go back to the original conversation, I like the point made by LibraStaci--"a certain amount of authenticity" is a nice way to put it, and I think that honestly shows respect both for yourself and for your sister.

Daleth

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #25 on: February 23, 2014, 05:31:03 PM »
I have to admit that I am the kind of person who would say that I find it hard to celebrate her new car when she didn't have the money for her audit...but only because she initiated the discussion, otherwise I would have ignored.

Me too, except I would've mentioned the loan from the parents, not the audit. There's no way I could let that pass, even if my parents had.

"Congratulations, that's awesome you're doing better financially to be able to buy a really nice car like a BMW.  I bet it's a super comfy ride.  I know mom & dad will also be excited by this news that you're doing so much better and they'll soon get the money they loaned you back, since dad isn't doing so well health-wise these days."

Perfect!

Perfect response to sister would be:  "Wow.  I didn't realize you had already paid mom and dad back!"

Since the opportunity has already passed, I would encourage you to practice a certain amount of authenticity in what you say in the future.  So, while you *could* hold your tongue and not reveal any hint of your true feelings, I think it's preferable to give them the truthful but toned-down version -- something like, "You know, I'm honestly a bit disappointed that you upgraded your cars before paying mom and dad back.  I think they've been really good to us both and I'd love to see you take that obligation off the back burner so that they know you appreciate them." 

Even more perfect!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 05:33:39 PM by Daleth »

sheepstache

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2014, 05:43:16 PM »
Perfect response to sister would be:  "Wow.  I didn't realize you had already paid mom and dad back!"

Since the opportunity has already passed, I would encourage you to practice a certain amount of authenticity in what you say in the future.  So, while you *could* hold your tongue and not reveal any hint of your true feelings, I think it's preferable to give them the truthful but toned-down version -- something like, "You know, I'm honestly a bit disappointed that you upgraded your cars before paying mom and dad back.  I think they've been really good to us both and I'd love to see you take that obligation off the back burner so that they know you appreciate them." 

Honestly, I believe it's good to practice authenticity *unless* you find yourself dealing with ugly feelings or inappropriate emotions.  (Like, don't ever tell your little brother, "You know, I'm honestly a bit happy that your wife divorced you.  You've always been smarter than me, so I like seeing life give you a screw-job here and there.")

 

Agreed.  A little while ago there was the Frugal Police thread and people were worried about being judgmental, and I think this distinction LibraTraci is making is important.  You shouldn't just voice your gut reaction without considering the other person's feelings first, but in my experience a gut reaction gets a lot of leeway in conversations and people tend to respect it even if they disagree.

As far as my sister is concerned, it is odd to me that someone expects congratulations over buying a car.
Ha, yes, this was my main reaction to the story, but I thought, "okay, maybe that's just how it is in their family."  Then I saw it was the OP who wrote this.  So, yes, you are right, it is odd.  I have a friend who has a sister who is very different from her in kind of a similar way to your situation and she (the friend) gets frustrated but then reminds herself to be grateful that she didn't get the quirky genetics that cause her sister to be how she is.

Ohio Teacher

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2014, 07:38:27 PM »
I was confused recently when a bunch of people commented "Congratulations!" on a friend's new car Facebook post, but I guess this is a common thing.   I'm flummoxed as to why going into even more debt when you already live paycheck to paycheck is an action worthy of congratulations.

ThermionicScott

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2014, 02:15:52 PM »
I was confused recently when a bunch of people commented "Congratulations!" on a friend's new car Facebook post, but I guess this is a common thing.   I'm flummoxed as to why going into even more debt when you already live paycheck to paycheck is an action worthy of congratulations.

Misery loves company?  ;^)

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2014, 06:31:40 PM »
Thanks for all of the advice! I am actually going to see my sister (and her car) this weekend. Hopefully it won't get too tense...

LibraTraci

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2014, 10:47:39 PM »
When you see it:

"Wow, congratulations.  Mom and Dad must be so proud of you!" 

Just to humor us here in cyberspace, OK?


madgeylou

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2014, 12:36:11 AM »
Slightly OT but I had a text exchange with my sister this weekend where she told me about her latest cosmetic surgery. I didn't respond and now wondering if I should have feigned more interest in the subject, even though I really don't care that she got her lady bits rearranged by choice.

It is hard to know how to respond to this. How about: "I hope that the surgery works and you look a lot better!"

That's a nice way to put it.  I'd be fighting the temptation to say something like:  "Oh, thank God you're finally taking care of that."  She's fishing for a response, after all.

or maybe, "wow, i bet you have some fancy-looking junk now! does it work any different than it did before?"

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2014, 06:48:42 AM »
When you see it:

"Wow, congratulations.  Mom and Dad must be so proud of you!" 

Just to humor us here in cyberspace, OK?

hahaha yes!

subtle,  yet to the point.

grantmeaname

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2014, 01:04:11 PM »
Slightly OT but I had a text exchange with my sister this weekend where she told me about her latest cosmetic surgery. I didn't respond and now wondering if I should have feigned more interest in the subject, even though I really don't care that she got her lady bits rearranged by choice.

It is hard to know how to respond to this. How about: "I hope that the surgery works and you look a lot better!"

That's a nice way to put it.  I'd be fighting the temptation to say something like:  "Oh, thank God you're finally taking care of that."  She's fishing for a response, after all.

or maybe, "wow, i bet you have some fancy-looking junk now! does it work any different than it did before?"
That's pretty funny. "Does it have any new features?"

The Bearded Bank Builder

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2014, 02:14:04 PM »
Maybe if your parents has let the loan go then you should too and only remember there actions if they ever try to hit you up.  Also there is a fine art to acknowledging new stupid purchases without congratulating someone, try to make it a game.  "Wow that is a really great looking new car, must be fun to drive.  Gee I could never buy one myself I'm just to addicted to not having a car payment."  Sounds like you might do best sort of hiding your mmm ways, or at least the monetary results of your mmm ways :-)

AlanStache, Good advice. I know that it would be more healthy for me to let go of my feelings about the "loan." Part of my anger is that my dad had already been diagnosed with dementia at that point, and I felt that they were taking advantage of someone who was already in a compromised state.

Yeesh, I have zero tolerance for taking advantage of someone like this...my response would be "If you don't take that back and repay mom and dad what you owe them, I'm going to slash your tires and knock off the side-view mirrors with a baseball bat." That being said, I've been called an asshole more than a few times, so...maybe listen to the more reasonable people in this thread haha

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2014, 06:03:40 AM »
Quick update from the scene of the (financial) crime. Tension pretty thick. Hubby's Beemer broke down, requiring expensive repairs. He let slip that they are going to be late with their mortgage payment. Again. Complaining about having to come up with college tuition. I am worried because they know that I took Dad to the bank to get his IRA RMD yesterday...Probably seems logical to them that these funds should be "put to work."

Daleth

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #36 on: March 01, 2014, 08:10:52 AM »
Quick update from the scene of the (financial) crime. Tension pretty thick. Hubby's Beemer broke down, requiring expensive repairs. He let slip that they are going to be late with their mortgage payment. Again. Complaining about having to come up with college tuition. I am worried because they know that I took Dad to the bank to get his IRA RMD yesterday...Probably seems logical to them that these funds should be "put to work."

Why do they know stuff like that?
How good are your parents at saying no when asked for money? Have you told your parents your views, i.e., that they should ABSOLUTELY NOT give them a dime?

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2014, 08:23:44 AM »
Quick update from the scene of the (financial) crime. Tension pretty thick. Hubby's Beemer broke down, requiring expensive repairs. He let slip that they are going to be late with their mortgage payment. Again. Complaining about having to come up with college tuition. I am worried because they know that I took Dad to the bank to get his IRA RMD yesterday...Probably seems logical to them that these funds should be "put to work."

Why do they know stuff like that?
How good are your parents at saying no when asked for money? Have you told your parents your views, i.e., that they should ABSOLUTELY NOT give them a dime?

They know because the purpose of my visit is to do my parents' taxes and take care of periodic financial stuff. (I have a financial POA for my parents.) My parents know my views. I think since my sister just bought a new BMW (financed, naturally), my parents will not be that sympathetic. Well, Mom anyway. Dad has dementia and is confused a lot.

Daleth

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #38 on: March 01, 2014, 09:13:28 AM »
Quick update from the scene of the (financial) crime. Tension pretty thick. Hubby's Beemer broke down, requiring expensive repairs. He let slip that they are going to be late with their mortgage payment. Again. Complaining about having to come up with college tuition. I am worried because they know that I took Dad to the bank to get his IRA RMD yesterday...Probably seems logical to them that these funds should be "put to work."

Why do they know stuff like that?
How good are your parents at saying no when asked for money? Have you told your parents your views, i.e., that they should ABSOLUTELY NOT give them a dime?

They know because the purpose of my visit is to do my parents' taxes and take care of periodic financial stuff. (I have a financial POA for my parents.) My parents know my views. I think since my sister just bought a new BMW (financed, naturally), my parents will not be that sympathetic. Well, Mom anyway. Dad has dementia and is confused a lot.

If you have a financial POA, is it not up to you whether any money goes from your parents to your sister? I hope that if your dad has dementia (sorry BTW, that must be hard) he no longer is able to sign checks.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #39 on: March 01, 2014, 09:26:00 AM »
Good luck to you frugalecon. It does not sound like this will end well, no matter how and when it all ends for your folks.

I can certainly understand parents wanting to watch their kids enjoying their inheritance while the parents are still able to see it, but this doesn't sound like it's the case for your family. I can see this being a fight now, and when your parents are gone if there is anything left to fight over.

I (hopefully) have a long time before I'll have to deal with this personally for my parents and in-laws, but I know there will be a few spendthrift siblings with both hands out looking for a bigger piece of the pie when the time comes. I'm not looking forward to it.

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2014, 07:10:38 AM »

If you have a financial POA, is it not up to you whether any money goes from your parents to your sister? I hope that if your dad has dementia (sorry BTW, that must be hard) he no longer is able to sign checks.

A POA permits me to do things on my parents' behalf, but it does not give me the authority to stop them from doing things that they want to do, unless they are declared legally incompetent, which they are not.

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2014, 07:18:23 AM »

If you have a financial POA, is it not up to you whether any money goes from your parents to your sister? I hope that if your dad has dementia (sorry BTW, that must be hard) he no longer is able to sign checks.

A POA permits me to do things on my parents' behalf, but it does not give me the authority to stop them from doing things that they want to do, unless they are declared legally incompetent, which they are not.

Actually, Dad would be considered incompetent by a court, I think, but we haven't gone through the process yet.

Btw, the BIL's repair bill for his car was only $1000. (As my sister announced, "We just like expensive cars!") Based on snippets of conversation between him and my sister, I think that a friend is fronting the cash so that they can also pay the mortgage. I'm assuming that the credit cards are maxed to the hilt.

I rode in my sisters BMW yesterday. It is nice. It would blow her mind if I told her that I could walk into a dealer tomorrow and buy one for cash. But I think I should keep that to myself. She probably pities me with my 1998 Ranger and 2004 VW.

Daleth

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2014, 08:23:58 AM »
A POA permits me to do things on my parents' behalf, but it does not give me the authority to stop them from doing things that they want to do, unless they are declared legally incompetent, which they are not.

Actually, Dad would be considered incompetent by a court, I think, but we haven't gone through the process yet.
[/quote]

Sad to say, you might want to go ahead and do that if you think there's any risk that your sister might talk to him and convince him to write her a check or give her cash. Of course, that wouldn't stop your mom from giving her money, unless he has accounts that are in his name only (i.e. with her as beneficiary--I hope they've got beneficiaries named?--as opposed to a joint account holder).

tariskat

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2014, 08:44:31 AM »
.....

I rode in my sisters BMW yesterday. It is nice. It would blow her mind if I told her that I could walk into a dealer tomorrow and buy one for cash. But I think I should keep that to myself. She probably pities me with my 1998 Ranger and 2004 VW.

That's hilarious. Good for you to be able to keep your mouth shut on that. I think I would have a hard time not poking, even if it would result in requests for an unnatural level of financial support from the poor twits.

MrsHybrid

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #44 on: March 24, 2014, 07:21:36 PM »
Sorry about your dad. You might want to have a talk with your mom, have him declared incompetent if necessary and have his name taken off of the accounts and yours put on with your mother's. Hope it all works out for you. It always seems that the kid who does the most is also the most mistreated,ignored or least favored. Don't know why this seems to be.

uspsfanalan

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2014, 02:24:05 PM »
OP - I read this thread a while ago and glad I saw it again. I bought a 350Z Roadster used last summer, I know I know, give me a face punch, I deserve it. It was a dumb thing to do but at least I bought it cash.  Anyway, someone did congratulate me about it and I was very confused.

I was wondering if you ever did have additional comments with your sister or BIL. I think it might be an eye opener for her if you did one up her and say, yeah, I could buy 2 of your cars cash but I don't give a shit cause I'm an adult woman. Posing an preening with your vehicles is for teenagers, grow up already! I tell my younger co workers that it ain't ball'n if you're financing.

frugalecon

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #46 on: March 28, 2014, 07:17:03 PM »
OP - I read this thread a while ago and glad I saw it again. I bought a 350Z Roadster used last summer, I know I know, give me a face punch, I deserve it. It was a dumb thing to do but at least I bought it cash.  Anyway, someone did congratulate me about it and I was very confused.

I was wondering if you ever did have additional comments with your sister or BIL. I think it might be an eye opener for her if you did one up her and say, yeah, I could buy 2 of your cars cash but I don't give a shit cause I'm an adult woman. Posing an preening with your vehicles is for teenagers, grow up already! I tell my younger co workers that it ain't ball'n if you're financing.

I am sure most of us have done things we regret. But like yo said, at least your 350Z wasn't financed. I hate having a mortgage, even though it makes sense at 3%. I would really hate a car loan.

But in response to your question, I have not engaged my sister on that topic. I have decided not to let on about my own financial circumstances. I just prefer not to be in the position of having to say no. And she just really likes to spend money.

Ambergris

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #47 on: March 28, 2014, 08:01:24 PM »
My mother in law is a hoarder. After her husband died, she started really accumulating stuff. Then she ran out of money, and started taking out mortgage loans, and then refinancing them every couple of years. Now she can't cash flow the payments and groceries/electric. Other family members have said "why don't you help Mom out" just because we have money because we don't buy tons of shit or have debt. I hate the whole concept of family means we have to be personally responsible for dear old Mom's spendthrift ways. After paying her property taxes last year, I told her and dear wife no more. She can call Social Services for help for all I care. DW is now taking her to the food shelf once a month. "Other family members" think I'm an asshole, maybe I am. But enough is enough.

P.S. she acquired two pianos for her stacked to the ceiling living room even though she can't play piano!

You are not an asshole.  You are refusing to subsidize your MIL's mental illness, which is appropriate.  I think encouraging her to seek help, plus the occasional bag of groceries for times when she has nothing to freaking eat, are all that is required here. 

Ambergris

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #48 on: March 28, 2014, 08:10:12 PM »
I would've replied "Congrats on adding new debt and additional years of working!".  Then again, I have no qualms about being an asshole in these situations.

My mother in law is a hoarder. After her husband died, she started really accumulating stuff. Then she ran out of money, and started taking out mortgage loans, and then refinancing them every couple of years. Now she can't cash flow the payments and groceries/electric. Other family members have said "why don't you help Mom out" just because we have money because we don't buy tons of shit or have debt. I hate the whole concept of family means we have to be personally responsible for dear old Mom's spendthrift ways. After paying her property taxes last year, I told her and dear wife no more. She can call Social Services for help for all I care. DW is now taking her to the food shelf once a month. "Other family members" think I'm an asshole, maybe I am. But enough is enough.

P.S. she acquired two pianos for her stacked to the ceiling living room even though she can't play piano!

Your issue is related to some of my frustration with my sister. When she drains my parents' assets (and they spent lavishly on her...two weddings, two divorces, lawyers for various legal scrapes, etc.) like she did with the tax situation, it moves up the date at which their assets will be exhausted. And when people look around to find someone to cut checks to keep them comfortable, will they focus on the ones with car payments, mortgage payments, credit card balances, etc.? I expect not. They will turn to the frugal, mortgage-free, high-net-worth person.

Yes, and this means that you are indirectly and in the long term paying for the f*cking BMW, money being fungible and all, if you did help your parents.  Your parents obviously have poor financial boundaries, as does you sister.  You are going to need better ones as a result, and be very clear in your mind about what you will and won't do to help them.

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Sister upset I didn't honor car purchase
« Reply #49 on: March 28, 2014, 10:59:39 PM »
"Other family members" think I'm an asshole, maybe I am. But enough is enough.

You are not an asshole.  You are refusing to subsidize your MIL's mental illness, which is appropriate.  I think encouraging her to seek help, plus the occasional bag of groceries for times when she has nothing to freaking eat, are all that is required here.

Yep, that's called enabling. This person is an addict. Different substance, but same addiction as alcohol or crack. Don't enable, fix. You are not an asshole sir.