Author Topic: Sister got a new job  (Read 10731 times)

ArbitraryGuy

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Sister got a new job
« on: May 12, 2014, 03:04:28 PM »
My sister final got a paying job after 5 years of being a stay-at-home mom.  What's the first thing she's planning on doing with the money?

I offered to help her plan for retirement, her kids college, and tax savings (through a retirement savings), but to no avail.  She's going to buy a $900 leather purse.

greenmimama

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 03:14:47 PM »
That must be a nice purse, just kidding, it's just like all the other purses but with a designer name brand, snort.

She probably hasn't done a whole lot for herself lately, being a stay at home mom can be a pretty thankless job, $900 is a lot, but don't beat her up too badly ;)

ArbitraryGuy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 03:22:05 PM »
That must be a nice purse, just kidding, it's just like all the other purses but with a designer name brand, snort.

She probably hasn't done a whole lot for herself lately, being a stay at home mom can be a pretty thankless job, $900 is a lot, but don't beat her up too badly ;)

Of course, I understand doing something for yourself, I guess.  What's more frustrating is her lack of interest in the future. 

"Why save for the future," she asked when I offered her advice, "what if I die tomorrow?"



Zamboni

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 03:25:48 PM »
That's a lot for a purse, but if this is a purse she will be using regularly for the next several years (or more), then I say more power to her.  If it's a fashion statement that won't be in style next year much less in 5 years, then hopefully it will bring her A LOT of happiness in the mean time.  For comparison, I won $1500 once and used it to buy a really nice black leather Coach briefcase.  I still use it 20+ years later, and it still looks great.

So, basically, very high quality leather goods can be worth the price, and she probably does need to celebrate her new job somehow.  If it was a laptop computer you'd probably not throw stones, and the purse will last longer.  I'm sure now she will buckle down and put money into savings, right?

Jamesqf

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 03:30:21 PM »
"Why save for the future," she asked when I offered her advice, "what if I die tomorrow?"

What if you don't?  I could get just as much pleasure from buying a $50 purse today (assuming I was the sort of guy who bought purses :-)), it would likely function as well and last as long as the $900 one. and have the pleasure of having $850 stuck under the mattress.

ArbitraryGuy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 03:37:43 PM »

<snip>

I'm sure now she will buckle down and put money into savings, right?

I fear that will never happen with her.

B L I S S

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 11:34:18 AM »


So, basically, very high quality leather goods can be worth the price,
Agree with everything you said; infrequently buying more expensive things that last is much better than frequently buying cheap items that are extremely low quality.

golfer44

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2014, 11:43:37 AM »
The seed has been planted... not much you can do now. If she ever "sees the light", hopefully you'll be the first person she talks to.

Clover

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2014, 11:56:38 AM »
Do you think she would consider buying second hand?  I have a bit of a handbag collection but I buy from ebay or bonanza.com.  About once a year I'll sell a bag and replace it with a "new" one.  Sometimes I'll come out ahead on the transaction.  My cost of ownership had never exceeded $50 (including listing and shipping fees) for a bag that retails in the 500 - 700 range.

Gin1984

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2014, 12:14:45 PM »
Do you think she would consider buying second hand?  I have a bit of a handbag collection but I buy from ebay or bonanza.com.  About once a year I'll sell a bag and replace it with a "new" one.  Sometimes I'll come out ahead on the transaction.  My cost of ownership had never exceeded $50 (including listing and shipping fees) for a bag that retails in the 500 - 700 range.
I hate you! :P  I just spent way too much time looking at messenger bags on that site.  I want one but could not get myself to spend money for a new leather one. 

eil

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2014, 12:19:31 PM »
OP: if you are still intent on getting through to her, you can point out that spending this new-found money on a purse instead of investment doesn't cost $900. Over the course of 20 years compounding at 7%, it will cost $3,482.72.

(I can tell you which one I'd rather have!)

That's a lot for a purse, but if this is a purse she will be using regularly for the next several years (or more), then I say more power to her.  If it's a fashion statement that won't be in style next year much less in 5 years, then hopefully it will bring her A LOT of happiness in the mean time.

This sounds a lot like wimpy consumerist rationalization to me. If high-end material possessions really do make you happy, I would recommend some introspection and really think deeply about what happiness is. And also, read a few more MMM articles.

Quote
For comparison, I won $1500 once and used it to buy a really nice black leather Coach briefcase.  I still use it 20+ years later, and it still looks great.

It looks great because it was (apparently) well made and you took care of it, not because you paid $1500 for it. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that not all well-made briefcases cost $1500.

Quote
So, basically, very high quality leather goods can be worth the price, and she probably does need to celebrate her new job somehow.  If it was a laptop computer you'd probably not throw stones, and the purse will last longer.  I'm sure now she will buckle down and put money into savings, right?

A laptop will not last as long as a purse, but it has much more overall utility and definitely did cost somewhere in the neighborhood of its asking price to make. The purse didn't. And I would still complain if she spent $900 on a brand-new laptop if her trade is not in I.T. because good middle-of-the-road laptops go for about $600 max.

Gin1984

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2014, 12:22:38 PM »
OP: if you are still intent on getting through to her, you can point out that spending this new-found money on a purse instead of investment doesn't cost $900. Over the course of 20 years compounding at 7%, it will cost $3,482.72.

(I can tell you which one I'd rather have!)

That's a lot for a purse, but if this is a purse she will be using regularly for the next several years (or more), then I say more power to her.  If it's a fashion statement that won't be in style next year much less in 5 years, then hopefully it will bring her A LOT of happiness in the mean time.

This sounds a lot like wimpy consumerist rationalization to me. If high-end material possessions really do make you happy, I would recommend some introspection and really think deeply about what happiness is. And also, read a few more MMM articles.

Quote
For comparison, I won $1500 once and used it to buy a really nice black leather Coach briefcase.  I still use it 20+ years later, and it still looks great.

It looks great because it was (apparently) well made and you took care of it, not because you paid $1500 for it. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that not all well-made briefcases cost $1500.

Quote
So, basically, very high quality leather goods can be worth the price, and she probably does need to celebrate her new job somehow.  If it was a laptop computer you'd probably not throw stones, and the purse will last longer.  I'm sure now she will buckle down and put money into savings, right?

A laptop will not last as long as a purse, but it has much more overall utility and definitely did cost somewhere in the neighborhood of its asking price to make. The purse didn't. And I would still complain if she spent $900 on a brand-new laptop if her trade is not in I.T. because good middle-of-the-road laptops go for about $600 max.
LOL, you don't run much on your laptop do you?  My husband's laptop was about a grand and barely does everything he needs and wants. 

Paul der Krake

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 12:31:17 PM »
A laptop will not last as long as a purse, but it has much more overall utility and definitely did cost somewhere in the neighborhood of its asking price to make. The purse didn't. And I would still complain if she spent $900 on a brand-new laptop if her trade is not in I.T. because good middle-of-the-road laptops go for about $600 max.
LOL, you don't run much on your laptop do you?  My husband's laptop was about a grand and barely does everything he needs and wants.
[/quote]
Sounds like your husband's laptop either predates ~2008, or he needs a Linux crash course. Anything that cost a grand in the last 6 years should be plenty if you are mindful of your system.

Clover

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2014, 12:37:50 PM »

I hate you! :P  I just spent way too much time looking at messenger bags on that site.  I want one but could not get myself to spend money for a new leather one.

lol!  It can get addictive.  I made the mistake of buying new once.  Now I get everything from there and as long as you're smart with you're offer price and gentle with your bags, you can get your money back when your done with them.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 12:50:51 PM by Clover »

Gin1984

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2014, 12:43:54 PM »
A laptop will not last as long as a purse, but it has much more overall utility and definitely did cost somewhere in the neighborhood of its asking price to make. The purse didn't. And I would still complain if she spent $900 on a brand-new laptop if her trade is not in I.T. because good middle-of-the-road laptops go for about $600 max.
LOL, you don't run much on your laptop do you?  My husband's laptop was about a grand and barely does everything he needs and wants.
Sounds like your husband's laptop either predates ~2008, or he needs a Linux crash course. Anything that cost a grand in the last 6 years should be plenty if you are mindful of your system.
[/quote]
It is almost six years old.  :)

Argyle

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2014, 01:25:58 PM »
Face-punchiness!  No way a $900 purse is worth the money, even if someone keeps it twenty years.  What kind of a site is this, people?  Would MMM say Yes to a $900 purse?  No way.  Keep some perspective, folks!  Buy those expensive leather items if you want, but don't try to pass them off as mustachian.

Ayanka

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 03:59:55 AM »
I don't think anyone is saying it is Mustachian Argyle, more that it isn't the end of the world.

To the OP: I don't know how you frased it to your sister, but maybe she got a little defending because she felt attacked in a way? I am not saying she is right, but maybe she just isn't that much into Mustachian and as long as she can pay cash for it, it is better not to be too pushy. If she isn't that good with money, maybe try suggesting the autodraft way with small amounts that add up? After all you don't have to save 30% or more of your wage for retirement, you only have to do that if you want to retire early.

ArbitraryGuy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 11:08:47 AM »
I don't think anyone is saying it is Mustachian Argyle, more that it isn't the end of the world.

To the OP: I don't know how you frased it to your sister, but maybe she got a little defending because she felt attacked in a way? I am not saying she is right, but maybe she just isn't that much into Mustachian and as long as she can pay cash for it, it is better not to be too pushy. If she isn't that good with money, maybe try suggesting the autodraft way with small amounts that add up? After all you don't have to save 30% or more of your wage for retirement, you only have to do that if you want to retire early.

I phrased my offer simply as, "if you want help planning for the long term, I'm into that kind of stuff and would be happy to help."  Again, she replied that she could die tomorrow and wouldn't get to enjoy the fruits of her savings.  I didn't push it beyond that, because I try to avoid arguments with people who are thinking emotionally.

She and her husband spend everything he makes.  And now that she has a job, they'll spend everything she makes too.  I helped them get on a budget a few years ago, but I don't think it lasted very long. 

Lost cause?  I worry so.

No Name Guy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2014, 11:45:46 AM »
I phrased my offer simply as, "if you want help planning for the long term, I'm into that kind of stuff and would be happy to help."  Again, she replied that she could die tomorrow and wouldn't get to enjoy the fruits of her savings.  I didn't push it beyond that, because I try to avoid arguments with people who are thinking emotionally.

She and her husband spend everything he makes.  And now that she has a job, they'll spend everything she makes too.  I helped them get on a budget a few years ago, but I don't think it lasted very long. 

Lost cause?  I worry so.

Perhaps a way to turn this around is to point out the actual odds of dying tomorrow (or for that matter, in the coming year) are incredibly low.  As a result, spending everything today as if you'll die tomorrow has the side effect of impoverishing yourself for the vastly more probable case.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Say your sister is 30 years old.  Per the table, her odds of dying in the next YEAR are 0.066%.  The corollary of this is that her odds of being alive at the end of said year are 99.934% and her life expectancy is another 51+ years.  If she's 40, the numbers are 0.1345%, 99.8655% and 42 1/4 more years.

She'll be alive to regret that purse when she's short of money, sadly.

rockstache

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2014, 11:48:28 AM »
And I would still complain if she spent $900 on a brand-new laptop if her trade is not in I.T. because good middle-of-the-road laptops go for about $600 max.

Please point me in the direction of one of these. My mom needs a new computer, and she basically uses it to email, pay bills, and store pictures.

No Name Guy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2014, 12:12:23 PM »
In playing with the numbers in that Socialist Security table a bit more, the silliness of the "but I might die tomorrow" line of foolishness coming from the OP's sister comes through even more.

For a 30 year old female, the odds of dying in the next 10 YEARS are 0.88%.  For a 40 year old, a 2.09%.  Yeah, so for the 30 year old's, 99.12% of them will make it to 40.  For those that make it to 40, 97.91% of them will make it to 50.

For the men folk, 30 year old's odds of dying in the next 10 years are 1.65%.  40 year old, 3.32%. 

Argyle

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2014, 12:49:30 PM »
I think the most important point is to detach from your sister's choices.  She spends everything she makes; they're not good with money.  It is what it is.  Concentrate on your own life, the stuff you can control.  If we let other people's counterproductive choices bother us, we'd be permanently bothered.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2014, 01:42:31 PM »
And I would still complain if she spent $900 on a brand-new laptop if her trade is not in I.T. because good middle-of-the-road laptops go for about $600 max.

Please point me in the direction of one of these. My mom needs a new computer, and she basically uses it to email, pay bills, and store pictures.
Something like this should be plenty.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834314150

homeymomma

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2014, 02:47:53 PM »
How do you know they spend everything they make? Couldn't there be a quietly maxed out 401K of your brother-in-law's that he/they don't talk about at family dinners?
Not suggesting her response or the purse is not ridiculous $(900! Omg!) but just saying... Just because they're spendy doesn't mean they don't have some retirement plan.

ArbitraryGuy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2014, 04:36:14 PM »
How do you know they spend everything they make? Couldn't there be a quietly maxed out 401K of your brother-in-law's that he/they don't talk about at family dinners?
Not suggesting her response or the purse is not ridiculous $(900! Omg!) but just saying... Just because they're spendy doesn't mean they don't have some retirement plan.

No, they're spendthrifts just like my parents.

She's told me that they spend everything they make in previous conversations.  My parents have to help them out from time to time.  They (my sister and her spouse) make horrible consumption choices (e.g., buying a car, not liking after a month and trading it in for something else is something they've done at least two times over the past five years).  I helped her out with a budget a few years ago (they've since gone off of it), so I also have an idea of the numbers.  Unless she's lying and manipulative (I doubt it, but maybe I'm bamboozled), they save nothing.

ArbitraryGuy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2014, 04:36:40 PM »
I think the most important point is to detach from your sister's choices.  She spends everything she makes; they're not good with money.  It is what it is.  Concentrate on your own life, the stuff you can control.  If we let other people's counterproductive choices bother us, we'd be permanently bothered.

Sage advice -- thanks.

homeymomma

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2014, 04:57:31 PM »
How do you know they spend everything they make? Couldn't there be a quietly maxed out 401K of your brother-in-law's that he/they don't talk about at family dinners?
Not suggesting her response or the purse is not ridiculous $(900! Omg!) but just saying... Just because they're spendy doesn't mean they don't have some retirement plan.

No, they're spendthrifts just like my parents.

She's told me that they spend everything they make in previous conversations.  My parents have to help them out from time to time.  They (my sister and her spouse) make horrible consumption choices (e.g., buying a car, not liking after a month and trading it in for something else is something they've done at least two times over the past five years).  I helped her out with a budget a few years ago (they've since gone off of it), so I also have an idea of the numbers.  Unless she's lying and manipulative (I doubt it, but maybe I'm bamboozled), they save nothing.


Wow. This is bad even compared to mainstream spending/saving standards. Yikes!

SwordGuy

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2014, 05:48:41 PM »
I phrased my offer simply as, "if you want help planning for the long term, I'm into that kind of stuff and would be happy to help."  Again, she replied that she could die tomorrow and wouldn't get to enjoy the fruits of her savings.  I didn't push it beyond that, because I try to avoid arguments with people who are thinking emotionally.

She and her husband spend everything he makes.  And now that she has a job, they'll spend everything she makes too.  I helped them get on a budget a few years ago, but I don't think it lasted very long. 

Lost cause?  I worry so.



Perhaps a way to turn this around is to point out the actual odds of dying tomorrow (or for that matter, in the coming year) are incredibly low.  As a result, spending everything today as if you'll die tomorrow has the side effect of impoverishing yourself for the vastly more probable case.

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

Say your sister is 30 years old.  Per the table, her odds of dying in the next YEAR are 0.066%.  The corollary of this is that her odds of being alive at the end of said year are 99.934% and her life expectancy is another 51+ years.  If she's 40, the numbers are 0.1345%, 99.8655% and 42 1/4 more years.

She'll be alive to regret that purse when she's short of money, sadly.

Well, that makes it very easy to get your point across when she says "Spend it now, maybe I'll die tomorrow."

Sis, according to the statistical life expectancy tables, you have a 1% chance of dying before your 80th birthday and a 99% chance of me not helping you out then because you wasted your money all on your own.

ch12

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2014, 08:38:29 PM »
Chill.

You're imposing your Mustachianism on someone who is not ready to see the way. I also am guilty of this.

For my first non-college paycheck (I loved being a tutor, but it didn't make tons of money), I went out and bought two designer pairs of sunglasses - Armani and Jimmy Choo.

I legitimately needed sunglasses. Did they need to be more than $20? Nope - and I spent a lot more than $20. I love those sunglasses.

It's a lesson that I have learned - and one that I continue to learn: you can't make people do what you want them to do. Even people you love. Especially people you love.

hernandz

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2014, 01:38:03 PM »
 http://outlet.lenovo.com/outlet_us/laptops/#/?page-index=1&sort-criteria=1

You can specify new, but I have great luck with refurbished computers

CarDude

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #30 on: May 17, 2014, 07:19:33 PM »
I think the most important point is to detach from your sister's choices.  She spends everything she makes; they're not good with money.  It is what it is.  Concentrate on your own life, the stuff you can control.  If we let other people's counterproductive choices bother us, we'd be permanently bothered.

Definitely a good principle to live by.

prefrontalfinance

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #31 on: May 17, 2014, 09:54:38 PM »

Of course, I understand doing something for yourself, I guess.  What's more frustrating is her lack of interest in the future. 

"Why save for the future," she asked when I offered her advice, "what if I die tomorrow?"

The only other thing you might focus on is the kids' college accounts.

Her: What if I die tomorrow?
You: Then your kids would only have one parent to both be the breadwinner AND take care of them. How much easier would it be if your family had a little saved to cover some of their livelihood costs?
Or
You: Are you hoping your children will die before they graduate high school? Because it sounds to me like you are planning on that happening. Or you could save a little money and maybe help them not have to take on massive debt to get an education.

El Limon

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Re: Sister got a new job
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2014, 07:08:15 AM »
 Acquiring luxury fashion items shows us a person who is desperately trying to buy the approval of others. It is a weakness that needs to be slapped out of a financial child if they are going to be a confident, strong adult. Here's some medicine: Take you $900 and buy a $40 purse. That leaves you $860 left over. Use it to sponsor a family in Honduras; that $860 will feed the children and buy them pencils for about three years. Every few months you will receive a letter that says thank you for your help, and your $40 purse will still be functional. Congratulations, you now know the value of money.