Author Topic: short rant and update on my parents  (Read 5773 times)

clarkfan1979

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short rant and update on my parents
« on: June 04, 2019, 07:57:32 AM »
I visited with a close friend last week and we shared about how irresponsible our parents are with money. My friend's dad is in a worse situation. His 70 year old dad is $20,000 in credit card debt and is in the process of losing his free housing through a friend. At this point, he might have to get a shitty retail job to survive. Walmart? My friend gave his dad money in the past, but decided he is no longer going to do it.

My Dad and step-mom retired in 2011. My dad has a good pension through his construction job (42 years of service) and they both collect on social security. I think their take home pay is around 75K (after taxes and health insurance) The problem is that they like to spend 100k+/year. They are both 70 years old.

My dad saved some extra fun money before he retired (good for him). They inherited about 250K to 300K in 2012-2013 when the mother of my step-mom died. As a result, they never were forced to live on 75K/year.

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. They are currently selling their 2nd home because they are out of money. I'm fairly certain all the inheritance money is gone. If it wasn't, they would use that money to keep the 2nd home, which they love. They do not want to sell it.

I predict that they will start asking the kids for money in 12-18 months. There are 3 kids total.

My wife and I live on 65K/year (after taxes and insurance). I save about 5K through my work pension and another 8K/year from our rental properties. Our total income from rental properties is 18K/year, but we currently spend about 10K of it. I am working toward saving a larger chunk of it in the future.

If they ask me for money directly, I feel pretty comfortable on how to handle it. The answer is, "no" and I think they know that. If they cannot afford their housing, they always have to option to live at my house.

I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one?



PDXTabs

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2019, 08:43:11 AM »
Is it possible that your folks are living the exact retirement that they want and will not ask their kids for money?

partgypsy

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2019, 08:45:25 AM »
Your parents should have no problem living on the income they have. I think you and your other siblings, since you can see the writing on the wall, need to have a come to Jesus meeting with them, saying you are worried about them living beyond their means, and how as you have your own families you cannot afford to help out financially, but are willing to sit down with them to create a budget. I think it's important to do that now, versus an emergency situation. This is not an emergency, not an accident, they are simply spending more money than they have, and the only people who can change the situation is themselves. Everything else is a bandaid.

I have a similar situation though my parents are divorced. In their old age they have barely any income, primarily soc security because of never planning for retirement despite long periods of time of earning decent money plus both got inheritances. Both parents joke their plan is to die before they are completely destitute and that does seem to be their plan, such as it is.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 08:51:00 AM by partgypsy »

PDXTabs

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2019, 08:55:33 AM »
I think it's important to do that now, versus an emergency situation. This is not an emergency, not an accident, they are simply spending more money than they have, and the only people who can change the situation is themselves.

Your two sentences are contradictory. I would agree that this is not an emergency. Not only that, it never will be. If you have $6250/mo of after-tax after-healthcare money, you're set. No one needs to help them, ever.

former player

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2019, 09:07:36 AM »
OP: your father and step-mom have more disposable income than you do, so the idea that you should either give them money or allow them to live with you is ridiculous - especially the living with you, because there is no way it's not going to cost you a lot of money to have two such spendthrift people living in your house for the rest of their lives.

six-car-habit

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2019, 09:10:05 AM »
  ** "I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one? " **

   "We want to start giving them $250 / mo"  - Say, ok , thats fine with us, we don't object to y'all subsidizing their lifestyle, but as it stands we live on less $$ than the parents do, plus we have a child to raise still, So we are going to decline any financial help at this time... etc.   Bring up the inheritance spent to zero.

   Is there some reason the parents can't stay in the "2nd home" which I'll assume is the cheaper one, and sell the primary house instead ?

mm1970

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2019, 11:25:04 AM »
Quote
I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one?

"They make more money than I do.  No."

clarkfan1979

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 12:24:47 PM »
Is it possible that your folks are living the exact retirement that they want and will not ask their kids for money?

It's possible that they will never ask for money. However, my gut is telling me different and I'm trying to get prepared.

Thank you for all the feedback. I actually wasn't expecting support for a hard, "no"

I think that will be my strategy, even with the siblings. If asked why, I will let them know that their take-home pay is more than ours. We have figured out a way to live on less than we make. They should try to do the same.




Kris

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 01:13:45 PM »
I visited with a close friend last week and we shared about how irresponsible our parents are with money. My friend's dad is in a worse situation. His 70 year old dad is $20,000 in credit card debt and is in the process of losing his free housing through a friend. At this point, he might have to get a shitty retail job to survive. Walmart? My friend gave his dad money in the past, but decided he is no longer going to do it.

My Dad and step-mom retired in 2011. My dad has a good pension through his construction job (42 years of service) and they both collect on social security. I think their take home pay is around 75K (after taxes and health insurance) The problem is that they like to spend 100k+/year. They are both 70 years old.

My dad saved some extra fun money before he retired (good for him). They inherited about 250K to 300K in 2012-2013 when the mother of my step-mom died. As a result, they never were forced to live on 75K/year.

It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion. They are currently selling their 2nd home because they are out of money. I'm fairly certain all the inheritance money is gone. If it wasn't, they would use that money to keep the 2nd home, which they love. They do not want to sell it.

I predict that they will start asking the kids for money in 12-18 months. There are 3 kids total.

My wife and I live on 65K/year (after taxes and insurance). I save about 5K through my work pension and another 8K/year from our rental properties. Our total income from rental properties is 18K/year, but we currently spend about 10K of it. I am working toward saving a larger chunk of it in the future.

If they ask me for money directly, I feel pretty comfortable on how to handle it. The answer is, "no" and I think they know that. If they cannot afford their housing, they always have to option to live at my house.

I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one?

LOL, yes.

"Follow your bliss, but I will not be contributing. Two 70 year-olds who can't live on 75k a year after taxes and health insurance do not need any of my money to throw down the drain they're already pissing their own money into. No thank you."

partgypsy

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 01:31:51 PM »
I think it's important to do that now, versus an emergency situation. This is not an emergency, not an accident, they are simply spending more money than they have, and the only people who can change the situation is themselves.

Your two sentences are contradictory. I would agree that this is not an emergency. Not only that, it never will be. If you have $6250/mo of after-tax after-healthcare money, you're set. No one needs to help them, ever.

I guess what I mean, is that this lack of money was not due to external circumstances (health crisis, etc). And even if it was an emergency in the sense they have run out of money, I would still not give them money. the most I would do in in talking with siblings, see if anyone was willing to have the parents room with them, for reduced rent. I think it would be informative, because I actually don't think these parents would want to move in with one of their children. It may make them realize if that is the only help forthcoming, is something unpalatable. It's also clear that while the parents did receive inheritances, none of the children should expect any sort of inheritance. Something else to talk with siblings about.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 08:19:48 AM by partgypsy »

ysette9

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2019, 04:12:26 PM »
You could always offer to go over their budget with them to help them find wiggle room if they do hit you up for money. “Teach someone to fish” and all of that good nonsense. I expect they won’t want to take you up on it, but it may be an effective method for cutting off future inquiries for financial outpatient care.

Zamboni

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 08:43:28 PM »
Quote
I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one?

"They make more money than I do.  No."

Seconded. You could even go with the gentler "No, that's not going to work for me."

Or, as I recently said to my own Mom:
"Me? Give you money? Never gonna happen."

Malkynn

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2019, 05:53:11 AM »
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

You simply cannot have healthy relationships without them.
Don't be afraid of upsetting people when you set boundaries, because they aren't worrying about upsetting you by trying to cross them.

Be honest, be respectful, be clear, be firm.
It makes life much simpler.

wenchsenior

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2019, 09:32:09 AM »
OP: your father and step-mom have more disposable income than you do, so the idea that you should either give them money or allow them to live with you is ridiculous - especially the living with you, because there is no way it's not going to cost you a lot of money to have two such spendthrift people living in your house for the rest of their lives.

Agree.  My husband and I deal with mothers who truly ARE in difficult financial circumstances. Retired with no assets, no place to live, no pensions, and less than 1200$/month income from SS. We do help them to an extent, but would never even consider doing so for incomes like what your parents have.  Nor would we ever consider having them move in with us at that income level (even at their current income levels, we are actively working to avoid having them live with us).

Just say no.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 09:35:09 AM by wenchsenior »

AMandM

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 02:43:41 PM »
OP, you might want to talk to your siblings now, ahead of the curve. Do they agree with your view of the situation--both your assessment of your parents' income and spending, and your assessment of how close they are to asking for money? How do your siblings feel about giving money to the parents?  It's good for you all to have a frank discussion before there's any time or emotional pressure brought to bear by your parents.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2019, 09:29:04 PM »
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.

You simply cannot have healthy relationships without them.
Don't be afraid of upsetting people when you set boundaries, because they aren't worrying about upsetting you by trying to cross them.

Be honest, be respectful, be clear, be firm.
It makes life much simpler.

But if people ever did this, @Malkynn , we'd be short of threads to comment upon...  :) 

clarkfan1979

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2019, 02:40:40 PM »
  ** "I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one? " **

   "We want to start giving them $250 / mo"  - Say, ok , thats fine with us, we don't object to y'all subsidizing their lifestyle, but as it stands we live on less $$ than the parents do, plus we have a child to raise still, So we are going to decline any financial help at this time... etc.   Bring up the inheritance spent to zero.

   Is there some reason the parents can't stay in the "2nd home" which I'll assume is the cheaper one, and sell the primary house instead ?

The smaller and cheaper vacation home is part of a trailer park that is only open 6 months/year. It is seasonal and residents are not allowed to occupy in the winter. They turn off the water in the winter.

They recently put their trailer up for sale for 79K. A pretty good comp just sold for 29K. They are delusional on what it is worth. They paid 45K and put 10K worth of work into their trailer. It looks nice, but the most they will get for it is 40K, mostly likely 35K. They are looking at a 15-20K loss. They do not want to take the loss, so they will hold onto it and "hope it goes back up" However, I do not think it was ever worth more than 40K. They will continue on a path with their expenses are more than their income because they do not want to "lose money" on the trailer.


partgypsy

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2019, 01:17:39 PM »
  ** "I'm more worried if my siblings come to me and say something like, we want to start giving our parents $250/month each to help them keep their home. Any suggestions on how to handle that one? " **

   "We want to start giving them $250 / mo"  - Say, ok , thats fine with us, we don't object to y'all subsidizing their lifestyle, but as it stands we live on less $$ than the parents do, plus we have a child to raise still, So we are going to decline any financial help at this time... etc.   Bring up the inheritance spent to zero.

   Is there some reason the parents can't stay in the "2nd home" which I'll assume is the cheaper one, and sell the primary house instead ?

The smaller and cheaper vacation home is part of a trailer park that is only open 6 months/year. It is seasonal and residents are not allowed to occupy in the winter. They turn off the water in the winter.

They recently put their trailer up for sale for 79K. A pretty good comp just sold for 29K. They are delusional on what it is worth. They paid 45K and put 10K worth of work into their trailer. It looks nice, but the most they will get for it is 40K, mostly likely 35K. They are looking at a 15-20K loss. They do not want to take the loss, so they will hold onto it and "hope it goes back up" However, I do not think it was ever worth more than 40K. They will continue on a path with their expenses are more than their income because they do not want to "lose money" on the trailer.

Well as my Mom would say if wishes were horses then beggars would ride. It doesn't matter what they a) paid for it, or b) want to get for it, they have to look at market price. Maybe an agent can talk sense with them. Trailers in particular are a depreciating versus an appreciating asset.

PathtoFIRE

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2019, 01:26:25 PM »
We're a relatively conservative personal finance bunch around here, even the leanest of the leanFIRE people. Perhaps this is just what it looks like when someone aspires to truly spend down their assets during retirement. The OP's parents are 70, and are probably staring down significantly reduced consumer needs in nearly all categories outside healthcare over the next decade. I'll agree that it makes me as uncomfortable to imagine myself in this situation as it does the OP and others who have commented, but then again I don't aspire to spend down every last penny and die without real assets, but there is definitely a contingent of FIRE and personal finance people who advocate for at least considering that possibility. It's just that those of us here seem to prefer something like a baristaFIRE to stave off significant capital loss rather than this path, but this path has got it's advantages I guess.

DadJokes

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Re: short rant and update on my parents
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2019, 01:49:33 PM »
I'm trying to imagine spending $100k in a year. It seems kind of tiring to try and spend that much money, at least where we currently live.