Author Topic: Gun bowl/Money bowl  (Read 5401 times)

Apples

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Gun bowl/Money bowl
« on: November 16, 2016, 09:07:45 AM »
Last weekend I went to an event held at a fire hall meant for getting together members of a certain group and as a small fundraiser for the association that represents this group.  $30 tickets got you all you can eat chicken, shrimp and homemade sides (plus chips, woo) and entry into a gun raffle.  I'm part of the board of this association, so I paid for 2 tickets for my husband and I and figured it would be an expensive dinner (we don't eat that much, nor drink the bud light on offer) but a show of support for the organization.

I was asked to man the gun bowl table.  Ho. ly. shit. people spent money.  There were just under 100 adults in attendance.  We had two additional gun drawings.  Each one, people bought 50 cent tickets for a chance to win the gun.  2500 tickets per game, or a total of 5,000 tickets sold that night.  That's about $2300 that people spent on buying tickets because some tickets won the option to win 50 cents/$1 or 1/2 more tickets, so a lot of people got additional tickets "for free".  You might be thinking that at an additional $23/person, this isn't so bad.  Sort of like a fundraising gala, right?  But wait, we also had 5 money bowls of $500 each, for another $2400 or so after accounting for tickets that won more tickets.  That's $4700!  That's $47 per adult attendee!  After they spent $30 to be there! For $124, they could have had a realllllly nice dinner somewhere.  And only $600 on the whole night went to the association.  The guns on offer were only worth $300-$350.  I know because I talked to the people who brought them-they had an agreement with the association about covering the cost of the winner's choice gun.

Most of the attendees make somewhere between $60,000 and $120,000 per household.  The rest probably make $40,000-$50,000 per household.  I fall in the upper end of the spectrum.  $124 is more than my DH and I spend on dates per month.  Insanity.  I'm just happy DH was also surprised/appalled at the amount of money people were spending, even if it's their one big night out a year (I doubt it is-they generally knew way too well how the tickets and bowl worked).

These same people will write a $50 charitable donation to the association per household, mayyyybe $100, each year and say that's all they can afford.  Why do people like gambling so much?!

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 09:15:09 AM »
Sorry, when I read the title I had this mental image of a key bowl at swinger parties, where people drop off one set of keys per couple and the other half of the couple picks up a random set of keys at the end of the night.

Since there were guns and money involved, I couldn't tell exactly what would happen once they were put in the bowl, but it definitely sounded like the sort of party to which I should arrange to be invited. Any party where checking your guns and money at the door is customary sounds pretty fucking awesome to me.

MishMash

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2016, 09:23:59 AM »
We do a ducks unlimited thing 1-2 times a year.  We pay for the tickets and raffle packages.  For us it's a show of support, we've met some amazing people at these events, formed some good connections within the game guide, local law enforcement and farm community, some that have invited DH to hunt on their land, or hooked us up with insider knowledge of places we went to like AK.  We move often so we sign up whenever we move because it's a way to find people who share similar interests and everyone there is usually super friendly. 

For the last one we spent 100 a person and we got all you could eat oysters, beer, some kick ass BBQ, a yeti rambler cup and met some really cool new people.  We actually did win a gun in the last one and a blind.  So that one paid or itself.  Usually not the way it goes though.

One thing I will say is don't judge the household income too much, we've found over the years a lot of those folks make A LOT more then you are estimating.  We over double your high estimate, and have met many people at these events whose net worth would drown most of us on this board.

Capsu78

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 09:45:00 AM »
Yes, my wife has the nack for getting "equivalent value" out of these events where she plops down $300-400 for events we go to on average of 3 a year.  Sometimes, there are real deals at the upper end of the raffles.  Last month, we hosted dinner for 10 at our home with a professional chef and a helper.  We won that raffle for $200, plus $300 for the food.  We love to entertain and cook, but it was so fun to be served and not have any clean up.  Other times we have won auto detailing, oil changes, restaurant meals and bottles of wine that we probably would not have bought, but we wanted to support the organizers.
At the event were we won the "chef", it was a benefit for a hit and run motorcycle rider victim with serious medical problems.  They had a 50/50 raffle where the dollar amount to the winner was touching $3000.  It was a "leather and Harley gear" crowd and when one of the bikers won, he immediately donated his half back to the guys wife...not a dry eye in the house.

Apples

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 10:23:45 AM »

One thing I will say is don't judge the household income too much, we've found over the years a lot of those folks make A LOT more then you are estimating.  We over double your high estimate, and have met many people at these events whose net worth would drown most of us on this board.


So, there are people who are members of this organization who fit this description. I'm related to a few of them.  Only 2 of the attendees fit this description.  I didn't even really mind (other than watching the money just fly by...) the people from the high end of this range.  But I'm certain about many of the others, just from being part of this community.  Mind boggling.

Apples

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 10:26:48 AM »
Sorry, when I read the title I had this mental image of a key bowl at swinger parties, where people drop off one set of keys per couple and the other half of the couple picks up a random set of keys at the end of the night.

Since there were guns and money involved, I couldn't tell exactly what would happen once they were put in the bowl, but it definitely sounded like the sort of party to which I should arrange to be invited. Any party where checking your guns and money at the door is customary sounds pretty fucking awesome to me.

Hah, this is hilarious because I didn't even know that type of party existed.  If it's any consolation, I've been to shooting "parties" where people get together to shoot at targets and show off their cool guns.  Those types wouldn't check their guns anywhere though.

Making Cookies

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2016, 10:46:09 AM »
Went to a different kind of event where two brand new Harley's were raffled off. $200 a ticket. And they did well. One of the bikes ended up on the local Craigslist for sale at retail value. Owner admitted they had won the bike.

Also have been to high price auction fundraiser events where the intent was to raise money for some organization but the participants were there to see and be seen. Way out of our tax bracket.

Was alot of fun though. Dinner and booze. Very nice venue. Our tickets were given to us so we attended and ate a good meal for nothing. I expect the tickets were expensive but I had helped someone with some IT problems and the tickets were likely cheaper in the long run.

The auction prices were beyond what we would casually drop on things like that (paintings, weekends away, a hunting dog, a gun, etc) so we just watched and smiled alot.

MgoSam

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2016, 11:38:10 AM »
Anyone been to a fancy non-profit's gala? If so, what's your take on them?

I'm not a fan of glitzy affairs (aside from going to the opera) so I don't think I'll go. I give to charities and non-profits already, and don't like that if the cost of attendance is $100, maybe $40 of it is tax-deductible with the rest going to cover the expenses for the gala. I personally think it's a way for people to applaud themselves for being charitable, though of course people can spend their money however they wish.

Am I being too judgmental?

El Marinero

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2016, 01:09:09 PM »
Anyone been to a fancy non-profit's gala? If so, what's your take on them?

I'm not a fan of glitzy affairs (aside from going to the opera) so I don't think I'll go. I give to charities and non-profits already, and don't like that if the cost of attendance is $100, maybe $40 of it is tax-deductible with the rest going to cover the expenses for the gala. I personally think it's a way for people to applaud themselves for being charitable, though of course people can spend their money however they wish.

Am I being too judgmental?

Well, these galas are fund raising affairs.  The point is to raise funds for the charity.  They would not hold them if they didn't work for that purpose.

I've gone to a few, and avoided others.  Usually there is an expectation that attendees will shell out additional bucks beyond admission for the silent auctions or raffles.  So, I would only go if I wanted to support the charity.

mm1970

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2016, 01:18:38 PM »
Anyone been to a fancy non-profit's gala? If so, what's your take on them?

I'm not a fan of glitzy affairs (aside from going to the opera) so I don't think I'll go. I give to charities and non-profits already, and don't like that if the cost of attendance is $100, maybe $40 of it is tax-deductible with the rest going to cover the expenses for the gala. I personally think it's a way for people to applaud themselves for being charitable, though of course people can spend their money however they wish.

Am I being too judgmental?

Well, these galas are fund raising affairs.  The point is to raise funds for the charity.  They would not hold them if they didn't work for that purpose.

I've gone to a few, and avoided others.  Usually there is an expectation that attendees will shell out additional bucks beyond admission for the silent auctions or raffles.  So, I would only go if I wanted to support the charity.

I've been to one for our elementary school.  The difference between a smaller function on campus, and a nicer bigger one off campus with catering and alcohol was $10,000.  We earned more on the off campus one, but it took 5 times more people (about 30) to pull that off.

Some people like these things.  I participate because I have a kid at the school.

I like the idea of a "no-ball ball" where you just donate and buy raffle tickets for REALLY nice prizes (that were donated).

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2016, 01:38:42 PM »
Anyone been to a fancy non-profit's gala? If so, what's your take on them?

I'm not a fan of glitzy affairs (aside from going to the opera) so I don't think I'll go. I give to charities and non-profits already, and don't like that if the cost of attendance is $100, maybe $40 of it is tax-deductible with the rest going to cover the expenses for the gala. I personally think it's a way for people to applaud themselves for being charitable, though of course people can spend their money however they wish.

Am I being too judgmental?

I've attended my share, and I've help set up and run a few. The successful ones all have a few things in common.

First, attending a gala isn't about the overpriced wine or the rubber chicken catering. Everyone there is attending to network and only partly to be seen. Not one person there is paying for the food or the entertainment, and not one person there has a goal of hanging out with friends. They already hang out with friends whenever they want to, and frankly the dollar value of the meal you serve isn't on par with what they could get at a similarly priced restaurant.

A charity gala is about pure, unadulterated power dynamics. If stuff like that gets you off, you'll have a good time.

Logistics first. The ticket price you set will mostly be eaten up by expenses. Catering and venue are the two biggies, but you also need to budget for an open bar (the reason why will be apparent later). Provide live entertainment. A pianist will be the cheapest for before and during dinner; you will want some after-dinner speeches but please don't try to make anyone listen while chewing. If you bring in an outside speaker that goes under your entertainment budget. You may if you wish combine the after-dinner dancing (think jazz band) with a silent auction. Otherwise, set up a gaudily yet expensively decorated donation box put somewhere discreet enough to require people to look for it but obvious enough that every single human in the hall will see it. Include some pens and envelopes to collect addresses so you can send the appropriate tax deductible receipt.

If you can't offer your attendees a networking opportunity, don't bother to throw a gala. You need to pull in at least one local politician, at least one judge, at least one reporter (you have to give that pair of tickets away for free) and at least two successful local entrepreneurs. Besides that you need a handful of professionals, and some color. For color you want local celebrities: athletes and entertainers will do. If you've got a conservative angle, you need some military guests ranked at or above major and representatives from at least two corporate employers that favor what you do. Get a token representative from the local United Way and a couple other main charities (because you trade... they attend your gala and you attend theirs). Most importantly get someone from each of the local old families. The rest of the guests can be social stuffing: Realtors, insurance agents, car dealership owners and such. They show up hoping to troll for new customers and hoping to be seen.

Guest-wise, you pull in powerful people by offering them the opportunity to network with somebody with more power still. The trick is to pull in people with power from different domains. The judge doesn't care about the lawyers who will be kissing up all night, but would love to kick it with the reporter, the military guests perhaps, the politician, and the head of the local United Way. The politician will be sucking up to the car dealers, entrepreneurs, and insurance agents. The military guests will be playing who's-got-the-retirement-strategy with the corporate representatives, and the athletes and local celebrities will be playing sponsor-me-please with the local entrepreneurs. So everyone will have someone who covets association with them, and everyone will see someone they'd like to meet and get to know. Remember that gaudily decorated box I mentioned? Sometime before the end of the evening, everyone will drop off a check for an amount proportionate to the size of the big, wet, sloppy power-gasm you gave them that evening. The dollar value will be amplified of course by alcohol from your open bar. Booze is a well known loosener of tongues and purse strings. They don't call it a social lubricant for nothing.

To grease your biggest donors, seat them next to your most prestigious guests. Have a few of them speak for a few minutes before bringing in your main speaker of the evening. Basically, what you're doing is throwing a power brokering theme party, with your charity as the theme.

Fuck, I ought to put that in my book.

MgoSam

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2016, 01:50:20 PM »


Fuck, I ought to put that in my book.

Yes, please do. This was glorious to read about.

Apples

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2016, 02:20:23 PM »
Yes, it really should be in your book.  It's very accurate from my very small taste to these things.  My parents and grandparents, due to being an old family in the area and successful entrepreneurs, have just enough clout to be invited to these things*.  They also serve on boards that mean they are sort of required to go to network with clients and other organizations. But yeah, the point isn't really raising money.  That's an excuse to hold the event in the first place, and the excuse people give themselves for attending.

The gun/money bowl and overpriced tickets that I was referencing to start this thread were for an event that was not about any of these things.  That, in hindsight, is a contributing factor to me being so surprised people were dropping serious money.

*I say this humbly.  The whole county only has 100,000 people.  It's not like there's lots of choices in attendees.

gimp

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2016, 05:32:32 PM »
Can I just say: Fuck United Way? Thanks.

human

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2016, 05:47:37 AM »
I don't get it. Isn't the whole point of a fundraiser to gve money not hoard it like Smaug with the gold sickness? They didn't spend money they gave it away.

Not getting all the hate.

clarkfan1979

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #15 on: November 20, 2016, 07:08:40 PM »
We do a ducks unlimited thing 1-2 times a year.  We pay for the tickets and raffle packages.  For us it's a show of support, we've met some amazing people at these events, formed some good connections within the game guide, local law enforcement and farm community, some that have invited DH to hunt on their land, or hooked us up with insider knowledge of places we went to like AK.  We move often so we sign up whenever we move because it's a way to find people who share similar interests and everyone there is usually super friendly. 

For the last one we spent 100 a person and we got all you could eat oysters, beer, some kick ass BBQ, a yeti rambler cup and met some really cool new people.  We actually did win a gun in the last one and a blind.  So that one paid or itself.  Usually not the way it goes though.

One thing I will say is don't judge the household income too much, we've found over the years a lot of those folks make A LOT more then you are estimating.  We over double your high estimate, and have met many people at these events whose net worth would drown most of us on this board.

I think a few of the duck hunters are high net worth. From my experience they are very frugal farmers that own some land. Once suburban sprawl hits their land, they get a check for 5-20 million.

Giro

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2016, 08:35:34 AM »

One thing I will say is don't judge the household income too much, we've found over the years a lot of those folks make A LOT more then you are estimating.  We over double your high estimate, and have met many people at these events whose net worth would drown most of us on this board.

I think a few of the duck hunters are high net worth. From my experience they are very frugal farmers that own some land. Once suburban sprawl hits their land, they get a check for 5-20 million.

YEP!  The OP is WAY under-estimating incomes I believe.  I know in my rural hometown, farmers and a lot of hunters have "old" money.  I did tax preparation for awhile and I was in awe of some of their incomes each year.  They lived like they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together. 

My spouse and I more than double the highest number in the range and we live in a VERY LCOL where we see many, many gun, hunting, and shooting clubs. 


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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2016, 09:29:36 AM »

One thing I will say is don't judge the household income too much, we've found over the years a lot of those folks make A LOT more then you are estimating.  We over double your high estimate, and have met many people at these events whose net worth would drown most of us on this board.

I think a few of the duck hunters are high net worth. From my experience they are very frugal farmers that own some land. Once suburban sprawl hits their land, they get a check for 5-20 million.

YEP!  The OP is WAY under-estimating incomes I believe.  I know in my rural hometown, farmers and a lot of hunters have "old" money.  I did tax preparation for awhile and I was in awe of some of their incomes each year.  They lived like they didn't have 2 nickels to rub together. 

My spouse and I more than double the highest number in the range and we live in a VERY LCOL where we see many, many gun, hunting, and shooting clubs.

Farmers are notorious for being (1) old money, (2) Mustachian as the day is long, (3) hard workers because it's in their culture and their blood, (4) outstanding networkers, and (5) masters of fornication non-donation when it comes to keeping up appearances.

That being said, you won't find a better group for banding together and helping to do something that needs to be done. Recruit a few of them to your Board of Directors for your local charity and watch the goodies roll in.

Apples

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2016, 10:20:49 AM »
You all are right, I was quick to judge.  I could certainly be short on some of their incomes.  And I think it was human who pointed out that this was a fundraiser.  I think one big thing that bugged me is that the biggest ticket-buyers are only getting 25 cents of every dollar they're spending to go towards the association, while simultaneously they have never written a check in support of the association, beyond $30 in member dues.  Two of the attendees have written checks to support the association, and they both bought the usual $20 of gun/money bowl tickets.

Grim, what does this mean? 
Quote
(5) masters of fornication non-donation when it comes to keeping up appearances.
  Your other 4 points are absolutely correct.

Chris22

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2016, 10:28:55 AM »
You all are right, I was quick to judge.  I could certainly be short on some of their incomes.  And I think it was human who pointed out that this was a fundraiser.  I think one big thing that bugged me is that the biggest ticket-buyers are only getting 25 cents of every dollar they're spending to go towards the association, while simultaneously they have never written a check in support of the association, beyond $30 in member dues.  Two of the attendees have written checks to support the association, and they both bought the usual $20 of gun/money bowl tickets.


This tells me 1 of 3 things:

1) they are unaware of the only 25% go to the association split

2) they don't value writing a check to the association but they do value a chance to win something and support the association at the same time

3) they do much less analysis on this spending than you do/you're way overthinking it

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2016, 12:36:24 PM »
You all are right, I was quick to judge.  I could certainly be short on some of their incomes.  And I think it was human who pointed out that this was a fundraiser.  I think one big thing that bugged me is that the biggest ticket-buyers are only getting 25 cents of every dollar they're spending to go towards the association, while simultaneously they have never written a check in support of the association, beyond $30 in member dues.  Two of the attendees have written checks to support the association, and they both bought the usual $20 of gun/money bowl tickets.

Grim, what does this mean? 
Quote
(5) masters of fornication non-donation when it comes to keeping up appearances.
  Your other 4 points are absolutely correct.

It means they give no fucks about whether they're showing of the right "image" other people might want to see.

MgoSam

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2016, 12:43:57 PM »
out whether they're showing of the right "image" other people might want to see.

That is a good point, I wonder what percentage of the population feels the need to continuously do that.

For instance, I see buying Starbucks as something people do, not solely because they love coffee but because they want to be seen with a Starbucks cup. These same people could easily have their own mug that they can get filled at Starbucks (and save a little money I believe), but that's not the same as having a cup with STARBUCKS on it.

The same can be said for driving a new car, the size of your house, the toys that you have, ect. The list can go on and on of the ways people blow their money on things that they only buy to look good to other people.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2016, 12:49:20 PM »
You all are right, I was quick to judge.  I could certainly be short on some of their incomes.  And I think it was human who pointed out that this was a fundraiser.  I think one big thing that bugged me is that the biggest ticket-buyers are only getting 25 cents of every dollar they're spending to go towards the association, while simultaneously they have never written a check in support of the association, beyond $30 in member dues.  Two of the attendees have written checks to support the association, and they both bought the usual $20 of gun/money bowl tickets.


This tells me 1 of 3 things:

1) they are unaware of the only 25% go to the association split

2) they don't value writing a check to the association but they do value a chance to win something and support the association at the same time

3) they do much less analysis on this spending than you do/you're way overthinking it

Do you mean 25% of the entrance tickets, 25% of the raffle, or what? Is that before or after expenses?

A 25% profit margin on entrance tickets is an excellent return for tickets to a fund raiser featuring food and drink, where the primary source of income for the charity is something else (silent auction, raffle, etc.) Most gala or party events barely break even until you count the donation checks or the returns from the silent auction. By contrast, if you have a restaurant fundraiser you're lucky to get 10-15% of the food sales.

A 25% return on the raffle, however, is pretty lean. Even if they had to buy the raffled merchandise at full retail price instead of getting it donated, they should be able to do better than that.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2016, 08:49:13 AM »

For instance, I see buying Starbucks as something people do, not solely because they love coffee but because they want to be seen with a Starbucks cup. These same people could easily have their own mug that they can get filled at Starbucks (and save a little money I believe), but that's not the same as having a cup with STARBUCKS on it.

Seriously?  Am I that out of it that I don't see walking around with a Starbucks mug as a "thing"?  It's a coffee shop.  Big deal.  I mean, if they really want the Starbucks mug look, doesn't Starbucks sell actual mugs that they can get refilled?

Although I have to admit, if I am buying coffee out my order of preference is Tims/Second Cup/Starbucks/ McDonalds from a McCafe.  So I am obviously not "with it".

Apples

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Re: Gun bowl/Money bowl
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2016, 12:28:21 PM »
You all are right, I was quick to judge.  I could certainly be short on some of their incomes.  And I think it was human who pointed out that this was a fundraiser.  I think one big thing that bugged me is that the biggest ticket-buyers are only getting 25 cents of every dollar they're spending to go towards the association, while simultaneously they have never written a check in support of the association, beyond $30 in member dues.  Two of the attendees have written checks to support the association, and they both bought the usual $20 of gun/money bowl tickets.


This tells me 1 of 3 things:

1) they are unaware of the only 25% go to the association split

2) they don't value writing a check to the association but they do value a chance to win something and support the association at the same time

3) they do much less analysis on this spending than you do/you're way overthinking it

Do you mean 25% of the entrance tickets, 25% of the raffle, or what? Is that before or after expenses?

A 25% profit margin on entrance tickets is an excellent return for tickets to a fund raiser featuring food and drink, where the primary source of income for the charity is something else (silent auction, raffle, etc.) Most gala or party events barely break even until you count the donation checks or the returns from the silent auction. By contrast, if you have a restaurant fundraiser you're lucky to get 10-15% of the food sales.

A 25% return on the raffle, however, is pretty lean. Even if they had to buy the raffled merchandise at full retail price instead of getting it donated, they should be able to do better than that.

We got somewhere around 2% - 10% on the entrance tickets depending on a few misc. expenses.  We got 25% on the raffle.  It's set up to return us $350 on $1250 of expenses (I realize the math is a little off), and the gun is, at retail, $50 more than the factored-in grand prize, so we actually return $300.

The money bowl is 1/3 return to us.

In general, the crowd knows this or can figure it out because the amounts of all the prizes are written on every raffle ticket along with the total number of tickets.  Several knew and were explaining to me the mechanics of it when I said I hadn't done it before.

Chris was right above, people value the chance to gambol and help a bit, but not just straight write a check to the association.  That's just not how I operate.