Author Topic: Self-punch: car edition  (Read 8558 times)

obstinate

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Self-punch: car edition
« on: May 14, 2014, 08:25:28 PM »
I posted a while ago in one of the other subforums about how I'm getting rid of my fancypants car and buying something more utilitarian. I realized something especially stupid about my decision that I feel like I just *have* to share.

So when I bought this car, I bought it with a nav system. What I'm finding out is that the used market does not give a rat's ass about options. That nav system that I paid $1500 for is only increasing the sell value of my car by $250-$500, even though the thing is still essentially brand new. So let's say I lost $1,000 on the nav.

Surely, for something so expensive I must have used it every day, right? Wrong. I probably used it, generously, a hundred times during the two years I had the car. I found that it was such a pain to start that I was 90% of the time better off just whipping out my phone and asking Siri or Google. So what does that come out to in dollars per use? $15 . . . sure got my money's worth out of that. And I could have painlessly replaced every single time I did use it with phone navigation over bluetooth. What a fool I've been.

Don't be like me.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2014, 08:27:07 PM by obstinate »

Norrie

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 08:37:22 PM »
Gah. I've often got to learn the hard way, so I feel your pain. It's good knowledge to have when moving forward though, right?

gooki

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 01:45:03 AM »
Made me laugh. I could understand 10 years ago fancy pants new car buyers choosing the sat nav option, but ever since Tom-toms/Garmis went below $200, and cell phones came with sat nav, I thought car dealers would have had to start throwing them in free of charge.

agent_clone

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 06:02:14 AM »
A workmate was complaining about the cost of updating the maps on her in car GPS.  I don't know whether she did it or not, but the car is a year or 2 old, and to update the maps I think it was to be a few hundred AU dollars.  I definately remember that you can get a new GPS for less than the cost of the maps...

Paul der Krake

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 06:26:18 AM »
So when I bought this car, I bought it with a nav system. What I'm finding out is that the used market does not give a rat's ass about options.
My 1995 celica, bought two years ago for $1,200, came with auto transmission, power windows, power mirrors, and a bloody sunroof. I chuckle every time I think about how "fancy" and costly these features must have been when it rolled off the lot 20 years ago. The sunroof alone is probably more than my purchase price.

Matt K

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 07:08:38 AM »
obstinate, I hear you.

When I purchased my car, I knew I did not want nav, nor leather, so I got the "basic" model (basic is very very relative, my car is not mustachian by any stretch). The only problem was I wanted to listen to MP3s via a USB stick. The cost to have that option installed: $500. I didn't think it through and said "sure".

Let's let that sink in for a second: I paid $500 to install a USB port.

I could have replaced the entire stereo system, including the shitty speakers, for that. Or I could have just burned mp3 CDs (which the basic stereo plays just fine) for $0.25 per CD.

We've all made mistakes.

golden1

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2014, 07:13:25 AM »
Unfortunately, a lot of cars have them packaged in with other options these days.  If you want a nicer stereo, you buy the "technology package" with the stereo, nav system, halogen headlights, built in seat vibrator etc..etc...

It is just a stupid way for car companies to increase sales by selling stuff that people don't really want, and it decreases costs on their end since they only have to make a few models instead of custom installing each piece. 

CarDude

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 07:29:02 AM »
Yeah, a buddy of mine who always buys used currently has a car with a sunroof. He didn't care about the sunroof; he just wanted something safe and reliable. But you know whoever bought the car first probably paid at least a grand extra for that. Don't get me wrong; it's a nice sunroof. But it takes a hit just as everything else on the car does in terms of value.

Sonorous Epithet

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2014, 07:30:12 AM »
I got my used 2011 Mazda3 filled to the brim with options from some fool who had leased it for a single year and traded it back in. The dealership's pricing essentially ignored the value of all the optional extras.

I have a big stereo, moonroof, navigation, halogen lights that move around, the fancy auto-dim mirror with 3 garage door buttons, automatic windshield wipers that detect rain (sometimes), and a host of other useless shit.

Of all that, I LOVE the moonroof (I'd pay a grand for the fun I've gotten from it, although bike commuting now has taken some of the value of "I can feel the sun on my face while I go to work!" off), the stereo is quite nice, and the bluetooth is nice for music. All the rest is barely even more convenient and I wouldn't have wanted them except that they were virtually free. The nav system, for example, is awful (it will tell you to NOT take exits), and I ALWAYS use my phone instead. The auto wipers never seem to notice that there's rain on the windscreen until I have already been unable to see for the past 5 seconds.

notquitefrugal

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2014, 09:20:18 AM »
You can get a Garmin with lifetime map updates relatively inexpensively. I have built-in nav in my car, but don't use it that much. If I'm going on a road trip, I take the Garmin, as it has more current maps and traffic support. No way would I pay $100 per year for new maps for the built-in nav in the car.

obstinate

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2014, 10:45:30 AM »
Yep, re: replacing the stereo, my new-old car is a 2008 Prius. This one is basically the barebones base model -- no Bluetooth, which is a must have in CA if you like talking to mom and pop on the way to work, which I do regularly.

I just bought a new head unit for the car, which I will install myself with the help of a friend, for $100 on Amazon. I'll bet the upgrade would have cost at least $500 if it was being installed by the dealer.

dragoncar

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2014, 10:51:05 AM »
Made me laugh. I could understand 10 years ago fancy pants new car buyers choosing the sat nav option, but ever since Tom-toms/Garmis went below $200, and cell phones came with sat nav, I thought car dealers would have had to start throwing them in free of charge.

I was pretty antimustachian 10 years ago, so my new car had every option available EXCEPT sat nav.  Even back then I knew I didn't want any "advanced" electronics in my car because of how quickly it would become obsolete (I think it would have been $2k back then... kind ridiculous the price hasn't come down!)

These days when I see stuff like ipod docks I'm like... yeah that connector is gonna be different in 2 years.

edit:  plus, I think they still charge you for system "updates" since it can't just pull it from the internet

Mortgage Free Mike

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2014, 02:44:22 PM »
I skipped the navigation system because it's on my smartphone (MotoX from Republic Wireless) and I always wondered what it meant for re-sale. Thanks for sharing. I hope others see your post and think twice about navigation systems.
Convenient? Yes! But plugging in your phone is too. Heck, both beat taking a real map out of the glove box!

seanc0x0

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2014, 03:48:51 PM »
I was looking at new cars a while back, and was interested to note the progression in price vs what you get. Pretty much found that if there are say, 4 trim level, the value of the upgrades declines inversely proportional to the price gain. 

One (minivan, iirc) I was looking at was about $30k for the base model.  Going to $32k got things I might actually use (like remote unlock, better seating configuration, etc), then quickly goes up in price but adding useless crap like TVs, leather seats, navigation systems, and gigantic alloy wheels (which, of course, cost 2x to replace when the time comes). Topping out around $50k for a minivan. A blinged out minivan, but still...

I'm happy with my '08 Honda Fit.  Fits the kids and groceries just fine, and the fuel economy is high, maintenance, and insurance are low... hope it lasts at least 10 more years!

BlueMR2

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2014, 05:08:49 PM »
Of all that, I LOVE the moonroof (I'd pay a grand for the fun I've gotten from it, although bike commuting now has taken some of the value of "I can feel the sun on my face while I go to work!" off)

I loved my moonroof too until it started leaking.  :-)  Drain tube cracked somewhere in the shell of the car, was going to be a nightmare to fix.  I used the black RTV gasket maker and sealed my moonroof shut.  No more leaks!  After the initial thrill wore off, I never used it anyways.  Say, maybe I can pull the moonroof motor and sell it now...  :-)

dragoncar

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 06:55:27 PM »
I skipped the navigation system because it's on my smartphone (MotoX from Republic Wireless) and I always wondered what it meant for re-sale. Thanks for sharing. I hope others see your post and think twice about navigation systems.
Convenient? Yes! But plugging in your phone is too. Heck, both beat taking a real map out of the glove box!

Yeah but smartphone navigation was basically nonexistent 10 years ago. 

Matt K

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 06:42:53 AM »
Heck, both beat taking a real map out of the glove box!

I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn. I'm not which is the chicken or the egg in this, but I have substantially better spacial memory and direction finding skills than most my friends and family.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2014, 06:50:49 AM »
great post. at least you know much better now!! :)

I LOVE the moonroof (I'd pay a grand for the fun I've gotten from it, although bike commuting now has taken some of the value of "I can feel the sun on my face while I go to work!" off)

hahaha, so true!

Heck, both beat taking a real map out of the glove box!

I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn. I'm not which is the chicken or the egg in this, but I have substantially better spacial memory and direction finding skills than most my friends and family.

yeah, I'm a total map nerd too. I remember in college, pre-smartphone, when I just had a Twin Cities road atlas in my glove box... sigh. you don't have to squint to see a map screen in the sunlight, and a map battery will never die on you :)

I too have pretty good spatial intelligence and navigation skills. my boyfriend is pretty hopeless with cardinal directions, like if I say "meet me at the south entrance to the building" he's all "uh... what?" but I'm a pretty bad driver, and I get really stressed out driving (and parking) in unfamiliar urban areas, so at least we both solidly know our role when we travel together. the few times we switch it up, we end up stressed out and fighting and then we're like "right... I think there's a reason that YOU always drive and I always navigate." he's actually way better at navigating in the woods than me, though, and if he tried to draw you a map of a woodsy area he was familiar with, it would look NOTHING like the real map, yet he can always find his way around. weird.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 06:55:32 AM by rocksinmyhead »

Jamesqf

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2014, 11:50:15 AM »
If you want a nicer stereo, you buy the "technology package" with the stereo, nav system, halogen headlights, built in seat vibrator...

Seriously?  And here I thought texting while driving was distracting :-)

I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn.

Me too.  Sure, an electronic map display could have its good points, if the display was big enough, and viewable in all lighting conditions, but the last thing I want is a voice telling me what to do.

PindyStache

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2014, 01:59:11 PM »
I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn. I'm not which is the chicken or the egg in this, but I have substantially better spacial memory and direction finding skills than most my friends and family.

I have a irrepressible hatred for non-human navigation systems. The voice, the nagging, the mindlessness... People who don't know their way around a town they've lived in for 10 years make me incredibly sad. So +1 for a map!

To clarify, I'm all for digital/online maps as this just makes updating and access so much easier. I also think digital systems for tracking traffic and comparing travel times are useful. The key is who is doing the interpreting and presenting--the mind or the machine?

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2014, 02:13:35 PM »
Heck, both beat taking a real map out of the glove box!

I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn. I'm not which is the chicken or the egg in this, but I have substantially better spacial memory and direction finding skills than most my friends and family.

+1. Family trait for me. I maintain a virtual map in my head, and it rarely fails me. I even find my 4 year old son doing this now, and he has better nav skills than many of my friends. Maybe it's taking up too much space though since the rest of my brain seems to be lagging behind lately.

On the car front - I bought an extended warranty on my last used car purchase. Nuf said.

Ftao93

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2014, 03:32:00 PM »
Great confession.

I am a tech support guy, but every nav system (and ESPECIALLY self-checkout) robot makes me want to smash it into 214324324 pieces.

then again I have a terrible sense of direction too.

Sonorous Epithet

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2014, 09:30:48 PM »
Great confession.

I am a tech support guy, but every ... self-checkout ... robot makes me want to smash it into 214324324 pieces.

then again I have a terrible sense of direction too.

Oh man, I totally feel you on this. I just walk up to one of those things and it tells me it's already notified an attendant. "But I haven't even scanned ONE THING yet!"

skunkfunk

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2014, 06:50:17 AM »
Just before I signed on for FI, my wife bought a new Cruze Eco. The only fancy option on it was the $700 nav system that we didn't want, but it was still the cheapest car on the lot.

The thing that I found interesting was that the auto transmission upgrade was an additional 7% of the cars total price at $1200! We stuck with the 6-speed and it was much more fun this way. That's a $1200 package that makes the car more boring and much less efficient - about 6 mpg difference.

dragoncar

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2014, 09:50:20 AM »
Great confession.

I am a tech support guy, but every ... self-checkout ... robot makes me want to smash it into 214324324 pieces.

then again I have a terrible sense of direction too.

Oh man, I totally feel you on this. I just walk up to one of those things and it tells me it's already notified an attendant. "But I haven't even scanned ONE THING yet!"

Please come back when you can afford to make a purchase. Your kids are starving. Carl's Jr. believes no child should go hungry. You are an unfit mother. Your children will be placed in the custody of Carl's Jr. Carl's Jr... "Fuck You, I'm Eating."

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wW-4LU79qbU

Mississippi Mudstache

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2014, 11:05:42 AM »
If you want a nicer stereo, you buy the "technology package" with the stereo, nav system, halogen headlights, built in seat vibrator...

Seriously?  And here I thought texting while driving was distracting :-)

I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn.

Me too.  Sure, an electronic map display could have its good points, if the display was big enough, and viewable in all lighting conditions, but the last thing I want is a voice telling me what to do.

Yes! I use google maps and my GPS all the time, but only to keep my hands free. I always keep the display on "North Up" rather than having the stupid thing trying to give me a street view. Just that simple detail helps me learn an area much better. And I keep the voice turned off. Can't stand it. I hate how my GPS always seems to be at the wrong zoom level. It's always either too close or too far away. Oh well, I still appreciate the technology, but I like planning out my own route and knowing where I'm going.

Ironfist

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2014, 11:48:46 AM »
Great confession.

I am a tech support guy, but every ... self-checkout ... robot makes me want to smash it into 214324324 pieces.

then again I have a terrible sense of direction too.

Oh man, I totally feel you on this. I just walk up to one of those things and it tells me it's already notified an attendant. "But I haven't even scanned ONE THING yet!"

Stuff like that is why I refuse to use self checkout.  Yeah, I may have to wait for a normal cashier, oh well.

LalsConstant

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2014, 11:09:45 AM »
Arrrrgh!  I'm so frustrated right now.  This whole thing is whining and crying and bitching, so feel free to ignore it.  I too am pre emptively face punching myself.

To make it short, years ago I decided to get my crap together, I've been debt free about five years and finally in the last couple years I've really turned over a new leaf and have started to seriously get some traction toward being a much more frugal person working toward FI.

Was I where I wanted to be, no, but I was on track to get there.

Well part of my plan was to use my newfound ability to save money to pay cash for my next car so I could "get ahead" of the car payment trap.  If I had just made it until December 2015, I'd have been fine and dandy.

Well last night I broke down, and I might be wrong, I won't know for a few days, but there's an excellent chance the repairs will cost more than what the thing is worth.

So no trade in value, and I'm thousands short of being able to actually do anything with what I've got.  I'm probably going to have to finance a used car, which is pathetic.

I'm not thinking clearly right now but I don't know what I'm going to do, I don't think I can emotionally handle being in debt again, and I don't have the liquidity to solve this problem.  I'm basically back to where I was when I was broke, after all that work.

I'm in my unhappy place right now. What's the point of all this budgeting and frugality when one thing can break and it's over?

daverobev

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2014, 11:38:04 AM »
Arrrrgh!  I'm so frustrated right now.  This whole thing is whining and crying and bitching, so feel free to ignore it.  I too am pre emptively face punching myself.

To make it short, years ago I decided to get my crap together, I've been debt free about five years and finally in the last couple years I've really turned over a new leaf and have started to seriously get some traction toward being a much more frugal person working toward FI.

Was I where I wanted to be, no, but I was on track to get there.

Well part of my plan was to use my newfound ability to save money to pay cash for my next car so I could "get ahead" of the car payment trap.  If I had just made it until December 2015, I'd have been fine and dandy.

Well last night I broke down, and I might be wrong, I won't know for a few days, but there's an excellent chance the repairs will cost more than what the thing is worth.

So no trade in value, and I'm thousands short of being able to actually do anything with what I've got.  I'm probably going to have to finance a used car, which is pathetic.

I'm not thinking clearly right now but I don't know what I'm going to do, I don't think I can emotionally handle being in debt again, and I don't have the liquidity to solve this problem.  I'm basically back to where I was when I was broke, after all that work.

I'm in my unhappy place right now. What's the point of all this budgeting and frugality when one thing can break and it's over?

Civic or Corolla, 10 years old. End.

Jamesqf

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2014, 11:43:58 AM »
Civic or Corolla, 10 years old. End.

Why so new?  Most likely they're not even really broken in yet :-)

(I have a 2000 Honda, 1988 Toyota)

forward

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2014, 12:10:43 PM »
Arrrrgh!  I'm so frustrated right now.  This whole thing is whining and crying and bitching, so feel free to ignore it.  I too am pre emptively face punching myself.

To make it short, years ago I decided to get my crap together, I've been debt free about five years and finally in the last couple years I've really turned over a new leaf and have started to seriously get some traction toward being a much more frugal person working toward FI.

Was I where I wanted to be, no, but I was on track to get there.

Well part of my plan was to use my newfound ability to save money to pay cash for my next car so I could "get ahead" of the car payment trap.  If I had just made it until December 2015, I'd have been fine and dandy.


Well last night I broke down, and I might be wrong, I won't know for a few days, but there's an excellent chance the repairs will cost more than what the thing is worth.

So no trade in value, and I'm thousands short of being able to actually do anything with what I've got.  I'm probably going to have to finance a used car, which is pathetic.

I'm not thinking clearly right now but I don't know what I'm going to do, I don't think I can emotionally handle being in debt again, and I don't have the liquidity to solve this problem.  I'm basically back to where I was when I was broke, after all that work.

I'm in my unhappy place right now. What's the point of all this budgeting and frugality when one thing can break and it's over?

Lals; I might of missed something regarding the details surrounding the problem?  It might really help to give some details of the problem and I'd bet there are some people here that can help you with some solutions.  If you've made that much progress, one problem won't set you back that far.   

Cheddar Stacker

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2014, 08:58:28 PM »
Lals, are you better off now than you were 5 years ago? Like 5 years ago NW was Y and current NW is Y x 2 or 3?

If so, that's the point of all this budgeting and frugality. That's why you are not back to where you where when you were broke. You are not liquid, that's your only real issue, but how's that 401K looking compared to 5 years ago???

CarDude

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2014, 09:28:10 PM »
Arrrrgh!  I'm so frustrated right now.  This whole thing is whining and crying and bitching, so feel free to ignore it.  I too am pre emptively face punching myself.

To make it short, years ago I decided to get my crap together, I've been debt free about five years and finally in the last couple years I've really turned over a new leaf and have started to seriously get some traction toward being a much more frugal person working toward FI.

Was I where I wanted to be, no, but I was on track to get there.

Well part of my plan was to use my newfound ability to save money to pay cash for my next car so I could "get ahead" of the car payment trap.  If I had just made it until December 2015, I'd have been fine and dandy.

Well last night I broke down, and I might be wrong, I won't know for a few days, but there's an excellent chance the repairs will cost more than what the thing is worth.

So no trade in value, and I'm thousands short of being able to actually do anything with what I've got.  I'm probably going to have to finance a used car, which is pathetic.

I'm not thinking clearly right now but I don't know what I'm going to do, I don't think I can emotionally handle being in debt again, and I don't have the liquidity to solve this problem.  I'm basically back to where I was when I was broke, after all that work.

I'm in my unhappy place right now. What's the point of all this budgeting and frugality when one thing can break and it's over?

Might be worth posting a thread in the "Ask" subforum so you can get more comprehensive advice. Hang in there!

Primm

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Re: Self-punch: car edition
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2014, 09:37:45 PM »
I know I am in the minority here, but I totally disagree. Nothing beats pulling out a good map. It isn't as mentally simple, but I enjoy finding where I am and planning my route. As a plus, planning a route myself on a paper map helps me memorize the route, I rarely need to look at my notes - and no digital voice telling me ot make the next safe U-turn. I'm not which is the chicken or the egg in this, but I have substantially better spacial memory and direction finding skills than most my friends and family.

I have a irrepressible hatred for non-human navigation systems. The voice, the nagging, the mindlessness... People who don't know their way around a town they've lived in for 10 years make me incredibly sad. So +1 for a map!

To clarify, I'm all for digital/online maps as this just makes updating and access so much easier. I also think digital systems for tracking traffic and comparing travel times are useful. The key is who is doing the interpreting and presenting--the mind or the machine?

I have a GPS, my in-laws gave it to me. When I don't have someone in the car to navigate and I end up using it out of desperation, I ALWAYS end up arguing with "Karen". Always. Probably not a good thing. :)