Author Topic: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.  (Read 29603 times)

greenmimama

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Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« on: November 14, 2014, 09:16:51 AM »
We have some friends who their combined total of student loans is 300k, Lawyer and social worker

That to me is so sad.

What are some crazy ones you have come in contact with?

frugalnacho

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2014, 09:31:06 AM »
My sister has about 80k I think (not positive), and my parents cosigned for most them.  She ran into trouble with the law and is no longer allowed to legally be employed as a nurse (convicted felon), but still has all the loans.

I graduated with about 11k, and paid them off within about a year (not a sad story).

Louisville

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2014, 09:37:09 AM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. Why doesn't everyone in America do what I did?

pzxc

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 09:41:18 AM »
I had one student loan a decade ago for $8k.  The current balance is just under $2500, so yes I'm still paying for college from ten years ago (that I didn't graduate from)

MrBuckBeard

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2014, 09:47:32 AM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. Why doesn't everyone in America do what I did?

Sys Admin here.  I think the problem is, a lot of young people are being told to go get a degree in "computers".  It's the new, popular thing.  And the field is ripe with good paying jobs.  So if you're good at IT, systems administration, or even just basic help desk, then you're in a good position to get a job.  The trouble is, lots of people are going for the CS degree and they're not particularly adept at the actual job.  Just because it's a popular and well-paying area of expertise, doesn't mean everyone will excel at it. 

Oh, and on a side note: My 60k degree is in Linguistics.  An English degree is worthless, but also can be invaluable if you use it correctly.  Since I've had decades of experience in the field, I use that as a way to prove my competence.  As for the degree itself, I just spin that a little, and say that it shows my business communication will be professional and my ticket notes will be comprehensible.

Jack

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2014, 09:54:57 AM »
I'm trying to resist the urge to turn this thread into a discussion about how H1-Bs and the alleged shortage of "qualified" people is bullshit.

Philociraptor

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2014, 10:08:52 AM »
My own. Nearly $100k taken out in loans for a BS in Mechanical Engineering, followed up by a $26k loan on a new sports car and then mortgaging a house for $105k. Parents made a lot of money but didn't save much. They put lots of stuff on credit and were leveraged big time: big mortgage, 2 car notes, line of credit for my mom's business, etc. They always paid for my 'essentials' (groceries, clothes, etc.), and I never learned any good money habits, so any money I made in high school went directly to fun spending, especially going out with my new girlfriend (now wife). I was accepted into an expensive private school, and FAFSA reveiled that we'd have to come up with around $30k each year based on my parents' incomes. Well they didn't save for it, but they were happy to let me use their credit via Parent PLUS loans with the understanding that I would pay them when the bill came due. By the time I got out of school the total pushed $100k (they graciously paid for my first year), and since I learned from my parents to be wary of used cars, I went out and bought a shiny new 2012 Mustang, my childhood dream car. So here I am, 22 years old, new job making approximately half my current debt per year. What do I do next? Buy a house of course! Slap on another $105k on a mortgage with PMI about a year after graduation. Seriously didn't know any better.

Now we're married, found the MMM lifestyle, traded down my car, rented out rooms in the house, and have knocked out about a quarter of the loan balance. There is hope, even for the most antimustachian of us.

MoneyCat

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2014, 10:15:24 AM »
I still owe $67k for my BA in English and Master's in Teaching.  Yeah, I know.  Unfortunately, I grew up without any guidance about money or making good decisions because my family is horrible.  I'm very smart, but I was an ignorant kid who was too frightened to learn how to take care of myself properly and I had dreams of being paid to help people.  I really wish I had a time machine so I could go back to tell my younger self to just get a bachelor's degree in business and not be so stupid.  The good news is that I will have my student loans paid off in 4 years at my current rate of repayment, while maxing out my retirement accounts.

theglasses

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2014, 11:41:52 AM »
My wife's. She has about $100k in student loan debt still, even eight years after graduation. I wish I could go back in time to 17 year-old her and SMACK that pen right out of her hand before she could sign her life away like that. Alternately, I wish I could go back in time to 22 year-old her when she got talked into making "interest only payments" for five years. Her major was ASL interpreting, which is actually a pretty stable and in-demand field that pays decently, but not so much to make it worth paying a six-figure loan. Her family knows nothing about money ... and she just assumed that she would never pay off her student loans, and saw nothing wrong with the idea of paying this debt until she dies. It's only recently that she's started to see that, if we focus, we can pay it off.  Her aunt cosigned for all of her private loans, too ... she was the only one in the family with good enough credit.

I still have about $5k on my undergrad loan, 12 years after graduating from college -- I deferred it while I did a poverty-wages Americorps stint and then again while I was in divinity school. I have another $3k from div school. Those deferrals are things that I regret today. The payments were (and are) low enough to be manageable, even when I wasn't making much money. My parents, unlike hers, have actually always been very good with money. Unfortunately, I ignored most of their lessons in my 20s and I'm still suffering the consequences. 

But, I'm an optimist. We're on the right track now, and as long as we stay on that right track, we'll have them paid off in about five years.

DeepEllumStache

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2014, 11:54:26 AM »
A friend has somewhere between 250k-300k in student loans.  Zero other debt so the friend is incredibly responsible outside of school decisions.  The debt is more than 3x the person's salary and the person is currently only paying interest about 5 years later and will continue this way.  A masters degree from the friend's dream school in their dream field caused most of the damage so zero regrets.  Takes the general stance of "I'll have these for the rest of my life" but offsets it with being amazingly knowledgeable about the legal and financial implications.

I plowed through my grad school loans within 6 months because I was offended by paying anyone 6.8%.  I didn't bother researching much about the legal impacts.


theglasses

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2014, 12:05:11 PM »
Oh, also, I have a bunch of acquaintances and coworkers who took out loans to get masters degrees in counseling and social work at expensive private schools (Northwestern, University of Chicago, etc.) It blows my mind. Social work grads are a dime a dozen in Chicago, and you're lucky if you pull in 35,000-40,000 a year as an entry-level salary. It makes me batty.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2014, 12:07:54 PM »
A 28 year old i worked with when I was 19 had a masters in English from a good state school. $80k in debt from it. We were answering phones for $9.50/hr at the time.  I don't know what happened to him, but I swore I would never waste my money like that.  I have a Bachelors of Science in Computer Science.

I spent $16,000 on my degree, paying all the tuition out of pocket and living in the basement. I worked the entire time I was in school.  I've been working 3 years and have increased my starting pay 45%.  It's not enough; because it still requires I go somewhere every day. I started planning my exit this year, and have already 'stached (pun intended) 27% of my post tax income in an individual account. Increased 401k Contribution to 10%, etc.

I think the worst thing is when I counsel younger people not to follow in my footsteps (ie, don't drop out, change your mind, get poor grades, etc) and tell them to get a degree that is in demand, they don't listen.  More graduate degree holding baristas for my local starbucks..

JeffC

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2014, 12:11:45 PM »
I'm 34 and I've got about 50k left to pay on my loans, which I racked up while getting a BFA and an MFA in Art.  While I'm sure many are chortling as they read this, it actually is something I feel good about.  I managed to become a nationally known artist and also am a tenure-track professor at a large University.  The loans were originally about 30k but they got big when I made the decision to defer payment in order to not have to take a job that would pull me out of the studio as I forged my career.  I have not worked even one minute outside of my field since graduating, which is rare. I saw the time spent in deferment as an investment even more important than the degrees and I'm sure I was correct about that.  I am fortunate that all but about 15k of it is at 2.03% fixed, so I'm hacking away at the 15k that is at 6.8% as quickly as I can while paying the minimum on the rest. This is the only debt of any kind I have though, so that's good.

Now I'm paying them back at a good pace, thanks to MMM and some frugality skills I developed on my own in my poorer days, and although FI sounds good, I wouldn't consider quitting my job or quitting making and selling art once I get there.  It really is nice have the job I've always dreamed of and a successful enough career selling work that I could quit it at any point and get by just fine.  Even though it clearly is not the same as actually having financial independence, I bet my daily lifestyle is closer to MMM's than it is to a typical 9-5er - I stay busy and have no time for TV etc, but it is all stuff I want to be doing. At no point does work actually feel like work.  I would prefer this to the path many take of choosing a profession based on pay and then just trying to endure the drudgery of it for the shortest time possible.

Here's the sad thing though - I know a great many artists who have made the same choice but it didn't pan out and they have the debt and they have to pay it off waiting tables or selling insurance or something else way outside their chosen profession.  It is a calculated risk.  If you ever meet an artist, they are already mustachian by necessity. They also probably don't regret their choice, even if things didn't pan out.

dude

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2014, 12:26:04 PM »
I graduated law school back in '97 with @$80K in student loans.  Down to $18K now, and I could pay them off tomorrow if I wanted to, but decided (after consultation here!) to let them ride at 2.33%.

I don't regret taking those loans out one bit.  My degree has more than paid for itself and has provided me with a very nice life.

EricL

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2014, 03:52:20 PM »
My student debt sob story was bad at the time and a self inflicted injury.  But it all worked out in the end and I paid them off years ago. 

But compared to today's sob stories mine was a cake walk.  I talked to a local Hispanic university student two weeks ago.  He honestly didn't know what he was paying in student loans (the university web site indicates if he's paying $80K he's getting off lightly).  His Major: Chicano studies.  His intended career path: a graduate degree (hello more debt) then a teaching position "somewhere".  At that point my eyes glazed over and I fell into a daze.  Fortunately this pre empted a snark comment about looking into a more profitable career picking vegetables.

I also met a pretty young woman who confessed to being an English Major.  Pretty much the same deal but with a career path oriented toward writing books at graduation.  I hope she does well.  Not every writer can achieve J.K. Rowling type success but at least mediocrity doesn't seem such a slam dunk. 

randymarsh

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2014, 04:17:34 PM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. people willing to work for half the pay.

FTFY.

Louisville

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2014, 02:51:04 PM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. people willing to work for half the pay.

FTFY.
Sorry @thefinancialstudent, but you're dead wrong on that. All of the Indian and Chinese guys I work with make as much or more than I do. And that's the norm for the kind of work I do [data warehouse/business intelligence]. My bosses try to hire US citizens, but there just aren't enough to go around with the skill sets we need.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2014, 03:10:26 PM »
My sister has about 80k I think (not positive), and my parents cosigned for most them.  She ran into trouble with the law and is no longer allowed to legally be employed as a nurse (convicted felon), but still has all the loans.
That really blows, double sentencing can be tough.

I live in an apartment complex filled with grad students of a notoriously expensive private school, so it's hard not to overhear cringeworthy conversations. Most notably of late, some lady who was considering dropping out of her senior year because she couldn't afford the (very reasonable if you have a roommate) rent and live off a credit card for a year or two until she figured something out.

CabinetGuy

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2014, 03:15:09 PM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. Why doesn't everyone in America do what I did?

So where do I sign up?  I'm a cabinetmaker, make a good living, but my body will eventually wear out.  Trying to look ahead.

Jon

fantabulous

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2014, 03:32:39 PM »
My face punch story isn't so much about the amount as how I accumulated it. Round one of college (computer science), I have* to take out a fair amount of money each year because I only had a partial scholarship to a private engineering university. Eventually drop out because I can't handle life and spiral into quite a depression I didn't know how to seek out help for. Round two of college has me desperate for a job, so I get suckered into the for profit online school scam. Fortunately, I find a decent job about a year or so into online school and drop out. So, something like $45k in principal over the past 10 or so years with some deferrals from my first attempt.

Fortunately, I've managed to make it as a sysadmin without any degree and I'm likely going to be done in December with my student loans. Having grown up not too much above the poverty line at times, the whole mustachian idea wasn't alien to me. Just the whole "having significant savings" part was foreign to me. My parents weren't wall of shame and comedy bad with money, but I kind of had to figure it out on my own when I got my adult card in the mail. I can still empathize greatly with the poor financial decisions made by poor folk, because I made some of them myself.

*Have in the sense of merely paying for tuition. I could have chosen to go elsewhere, obviously. But I wasn't using loan money to live it up.

russianswinga

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2014, 01:03:07 AM »
A bit of advice to future sysadmins out there, since this seems to be a recurring job:
I have a CS degree from UC Davis. Excellent school. I paid my way through it myself - took me 6 years to complete the degree since I was working to pay for it. Well - I don't use it one bit. By my senior year and some assembly classes / linera algebra classes, I realized I wasn't cut out for programming and "D" is for "Done". I could handle advanced calculus just fine, but concepts of math beyond that blew my mind. Also, when you have guys knocking out 5 pages of code in an hour that takes you literally a WEEK to write, you know there's something wrong with your major.
I'm now in IT and I couldn't be happier.  I started out in helpdesk at $45K, move up, changed companies a few times, and now I'm a senior sysadmin / technical account manager for an IT outsourcing firm in San Diego, $80K at 31yo. I own a $210K 2br condo (it's San Diego, rememer? Houses start at $500K and it's $1m for a 4bd/4bath in a neighborhood you'll actually want to let your kids run around int), and am very happy with my mustachian career path.
The best advice I can give to future folks in IT:
1. Your degree doesn't mean squat. It can be in advanced chemistry or basic english, NOONE CARES
2. Start at helpdesk. Move your way up.
3. CHANGE COMPANIES OFTEN. Nothing spells RAISE like going to the new place. I got raises to the tune of $10-15K every time I changed jobs and left for a competitor.
4. Work on your communication skills. The face you show to your client and your communication skills will be your trademark.
5. Get certified. Get certified some more. Nothing says you're able to do the job like an MCSA cert... except an MCSE cert. Combine that with a CCNA cert and it's a guaranteed 6-figure income. All can be had with online training.
6. Profit!

Ok someone take this thread back on topic please.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2014, 01:04:57 AM by russianswinga »

fantabulous

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2014, 02:08:19 AM »
5. Get certified. Get certified some more. Nothing says you're able to do the job like an MCSA cert... except an MCSE cert. Combine that with a CCNA cert and it's a guaranteed 6-figure income. All can be had with online training.

But I went the RHCE route, you insensitive clod. I'll agree that communication skills are a strong asset as a sysadmin.

More related to the topic on hand, my original high school dream job was as a systems administrator. Then I decided to study computer science in college and be a programmer instead. And now I've come full circle as an adult. Just wish I could have been smart enough back then to do that without the student loan debt. Although I disagree a bit with russianswinga in that I'm very glad to have that basic grounding of algorithms/data structures, even though I'm not a developer. I don't think I'm adventurous enough at this point to try for my 8 year old dream of being the first person to set foot on Mars, though.

amyable

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2014, 07:46:10 AM »
My face punch story isn't so much about the amount as how I accumulated it. Round one of college (computer science), I have* to take out a fair amount of money each year because I only had a partial scholarship to a private engineering university. Eventually drop out because I can't handle life and spiral into quite a depression I didn't know how to seek out help for.

My husband had a scholarship package at a private college which made everything (dorm, meal plan, etc. included) a mere $5,000 a year, which he payed for by working minimum wage.  He did great his first two years.  Then his mother died, he went into a depression and instead of taking a break, he failed all his classes, lost his scholarship package and continued for another two years failing classes and accumulating debt before finishing.  He ended up with about $60k in debt for a degree in the liberal arts.

My parents payed  for part of my college, and I worked two part time jobs to keep from taking out loans for my BA in English.  My MA in Education was covered entirely by a grant, and my MA in school counseling, we've paid for as I've gotten it. 

mm1970

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2014, 10:58:49 AM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. Why doesn't everyone in America do what I did?

Sys Admin here.  I think the problem is, a lot of young people are being told to go get a degree in "computers".  It's the new, popular thing.  And the field is ripe with good paying jobs.  So if you're good at IT, systems administration, or even just basic help desk, then you're in a good position to get a job.  The trouble is, lots of people are going for the CS degree and they're not particularly adept at the actual job.  Just because it's a popular and well-paying area of expertise, doesn't mean everyone will excel at it. 

Oh, and on a side note: My 60k degree is in Linguistics.  An English degree is worthless, but also can be invaluable if you use it correctly.  Since I've had decades of experience in the field, I use that as a way to prove my competence.  As for the degree itself, I just spin that a little, and say that it shows my business communication will be professional and my ticket notes will be comprehensible.
So, what types of jobs do you get with a Computer Science degree, or with a degree in computers?

I ask because I'm an engineer, not particularly adept in computers.  I'm not so sure how much of it is that I'm not adept, or only took one class in college (back before computers were such a big thing), or that I have a mental block.  My husband is quite good at computers.

As the jobs available to me in my town dwindle, and I constantly see opening at Citrix for software engineers and the like, I wonder what people actually DO for these jobs.  In case I ever decide to retrain.  Not that I  need to work if I lost my job.  But I like to work.  And part of me wants to retrain and get comfortable with computers just to prove to myself that I CAN.  Also, gotta keep up with the younguns.

iris lily

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2014, 11:09:24 AM »
My friend will graduate in a few weeks from veterinary school with $250,000 in student debt. He's in his 40's. He wants to buy a practice. That would be, what, another $500,000 - $1,000,000?

I can't wrap my head around that kind of debt at that age. When I was his age I was looking ten years ahead to FIRE.

randymarsh

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2014, 08:28:16 PM »
So, what types of jobs do you get with a Computer Science degree, or with a degree in computers?

CS grads usually do software development.

I did a management information systems degree, which is more business focused. I took a few programming classes so I have a general knowledge but I don't do any real development at work. My first job out of school is considered helpdesk, but I'm doing a bit of sysadmin work because A) They gave me admin rights and B) Certain things are a mess

I don't ever write applications like you'd typically think of. But I may write a few lines of Powershell to create computer accounts for a new employee. HR will send me an excel spreadsheet with new hire information and I'll have the script pull the data from that sheet to create new accounts (Windows, email, etc.) instead of creating each account manually through "Next, Next, Next" dialog boxes.

Artemis67

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2014, 12:22:11 AM »
My friend will graduate in a few weeks from veterinary school with $250,000 in student debt. He's in his 40's. He wants to buy a practice. That would be, what, another $500,000 - $1,000,000?

I can't wrap my head around that kind of debt at that age. When I was his age I was looking ten years ahead to FIRE.
A few years back, I decided I wanted to go back to school, take all the prereqs I needed, and then try to get into vet school.

Then I realized that, if everything went exactly as planned, I would be 51 years old and $250K in debt (assuming I didn't gut my 'stache to pay out of pocket) by the time I got that DVM after my name.

Sanity prevailed.

But before it did, I started volunteering at an animal shelter and the zoo to get the needed hours of animal experience in order to apply for vet school--and I'm still doing it. Not going back to school means I now have the time and money to do unpaid, but useful and rewarding work with animals. And then I get to go home afterward, and leave the unrewarding, bureaucratic stuff behind for paid staff to deal with.

I do have a BA in history, that I earned in my 30s while also self-employed. I self-funded that one. Not long ago, an acquaintance still paying off student loan debt for an MBA he's never quite made good on made a snarky remark about how "some of us majored in useful things, while other folks get degrees in stuff like history," while looking straight at me.

I just smiled wide and replied, "As the old bumper sticker used to say: Don't laugh; it's paid for."

Travis

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2014, 12:27:44 AM »
Quote
I have a CS degree from UC Davis.

I have a political science degree from UCD. Class of 2003. When were you there?

I got through college and grad school without loans, but that's because Uncle Sam paid for half of each.  I just owe him a whole lot of my time (I'm a lifer regardless). My best friend has a Masters in Family Therapy, licensed, and a whole mess of certifications to go with it.  She has $35k in student loans, but works at a nonprofit making about $25k a year and insists on staying there.  She does amazing work and gets job offers for three times that amount from all over the state.

russianswinga

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2014, 01:23:54 AM »
Quote
I have a CS degree from UC Davis.

I have a political science degree from UCD. Class of 2003. When were you there?


2000-2006, so statistically speaking we may have run into each other on campus and not known it. I kept working for UCD until 2010 when I picked up and moved to SoCal.

GuitarStv

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2014, 05:52:43 AM »
I worked through high-school, took a year off after high-school to work, and worked through university.  At the time this made me sad, much less so when I graduated without debt.

mrsggrowsveg

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2014, 07:56:38 AM »
I have my own antimustachian student loan story.  By the time I graduated I had nearly $40,000 in student loans.  The bad part is that some of my school was covered by scholarships and I worked full time.  During school, I lived more lavishly than I do now and took out the final amount of student loans my last few years even though I didn't need it.  The only good part is that high debt landed me here and is now paid off.

Villanelle

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2014, 07:59:24 AM »
My bestie as a B.S, M.S, and PhyD.  I don't know the exact amount, but I do know her monthly payment is four figures. 

Pooperman

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2014, 08:32:42 AM »
To the CompSci/SysAdmin talk above: I was a BS EP (Engineering Physics) undergrad with no development experience. I've spent the time post grad programming and being a business analyst/system admin in a subsector of the IT space.

To the topic at hand: my own mother! She graduated in the early 1980s with a masters in law (since upgraded to JD). She finished paying off her student loans when she was about 40. She finally started saving for retirement after she paid them off. She went through a nasty divorce with my father, so I can understand, but at the same time, she earns craptons of money (I estimate ~400k before taxes). Good thing is, she decided to pay for my education since she wasn't going to let me go through what she did.

damize

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2014, 09:22:44 AM »
Parent Plus loans for my 3 kids: $150,000+ at start..down to $122,000-ish now. They all graduated HS overseas and we couldn't get in-state tuition anywhere.  As I've said before, I have no regrets as I'm in a much better position to pay then my kids are.

Ok, one regret..I "let" the oldest start college in an expensive private school in Nebraska.  She lasted a couple of years there, then transferred to a much cheaper one near family.

Megatron

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2014, 11:25:26 AM »
My friend will graduate in a few weeks from veterinary school with $250,000 in student debt. He's in his 40's. He wants to buy a practice. That would be, what, another $500,000 - $1,000,000?

I can't wrap my head around that kind of debt at that age. When I was his age I was looking ten years ahead to FIRE.
A few years back, I decided I wanted to go back to school, take all the prereqs I needed, and then try to get into vet school.

Then I realized that, if everything went exactly as planned, I would be 51 years old and $250K in debt (assuming I didn't gut my 'stache to pay out of pocket) by the time I got that DVM after my name.

Sanity prevailed.

But before it did, I started volunteering at an animal shelter and the zoo to get the needed hours of animal experience in order to apply for vet school--and I'm still doing it. Not going back to school means I now have the time and money to do unpaid, but useful and rewarding work with animals. And then I get to go home afterward, and leave the unrewarding, bureaucratic stuff behind for paid staff to deal with.

I do have a BA in history, that I earned in my 30s while also self-employed. I self-funded that one. Not long ago, an acquaintance still paying off student loan debt for an MBA he's never quite made good on made a snarky remark about how "some of us majored in useful things, while other folks get degrees in stuff like history," while looking straight at me.

I just smiled wide and replied, "As the old bumper sticker used to say: Don't laugh; it's paid for."

I'm sorry about your predicament. My wife is a vet and she basically chose it because she's passionate about animals. It's baffles me that it would cost so much for Vet school when the pay isn't even that great. My wife was very lucky though. Her wealthy mustachian grandpa paid for the 300k vet school bill as well as all 4 of his grandchildren's schooling because he values education. I'm a software engineer and went to 4 years of state school and I get paid 20-30% more than my wife. Sometimes I joke that she's going after the wrong clients. dogs and cats are broke as shit.

one of my best friends from college who graduate with a music degree has gone back for a nutrition degree and is now applying for nursing school because he can't find a job in his disciplines. all on loans.

drak0017

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2014, 11:55:22 AM »
Through work and some help from my grandparents, I managed to make it through undergrad with only about $10K in undergrad loans (graduated early 90's), all of which I paid off before starting law school in 1997. 

I went to a top-20 law school and I worked through law school until my 3rd year when I was the editor-in-chief of a journal and couldn't balance work with classes and journal responsibilities.  I managed to graduate with *only* $58K in loans.  I consolidated them at a low interest rate and thought I would be paying them forever as I worked for the federal government in DC.  But then the agency I worked for implemented a student loan repayment program and between my regular payments (never stopped) and the program, my loans were paid off within 10 years of graduation.   

infogoon

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2014, 12:13:11 PM »
I got an associate's degree in computer science that I paid for with my wages as I went. Now I make 6 figures. The sad part? Tech companies all over America still have to recruit from overseas to find qualified people to do my job. Why doesn't everyone in America do what I did?

As a friend's engineering professor was fond of saying, "If it were easy, everyone would do it and it wouldn't pay shit."

So be glad that everyone in America doesn't do what you did.

Angie55

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2014, 01:33:32 PM »
My husband and I met at a private engineering college. We each had about 100k in student loans. Of course, we also added (2) brand new cars to our debt within 6 months of full-time employment. My best estimate for the hole we started out in life was 248k. EEEK. 100k of this was private student loans at 8%+ which we only got rid of at the end of 2012.

I worked part-time all through school and two jobs during the summers. I stayed in school another 6 months to get a Master's degree because I thought I was screwed by not having a job secured by Nov my senior year in college. Taking out another 15-20k in loans just in-case I couldn't find a job with 6 months left? Wow I was so dumb. None of my jobs have ever paid a premium for my Master's either and actually I've been deemed overqualified a few times because of it.

We paid over 4k a month for a lot of years. 9 years later we are down to 59k. We've paid well over 70k so far in interest not counting the interest accrued during school that was added to the loan balance. I gave up on paying them off in accelerated fashion because we finally got to only loans under 5%. By the time we are done, we could have a paid off really nice house...

What's even worse, he says his parents took out a near equivalent amount to his student loans. I'm not really sure how that's possible as I believe my parents were at a similar income to his throughout college so I would think we would have had equivalent costs. I've always been hoping it wasn't true. The last time we were at his house his parents were complaining about their stressful jobs, never being able to retire, and that their house has "lost value". I presume they are underwater on their house as a result of taking out home equity loans to pay for a portion of his and his siblings college. I feel like its our responsibility to pay even though it hurts to know that our college costs were in reality even higher than we ever knew. ugh.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2014, 01:42:02 PM by Angie55 »

gimp

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2014, 01:39:53 PM »
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Dogs and cats are broke as shit.

This is gold. Thank you.

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As a friend's engineering professor was fond of saying, "If it were easy, everyone would do it and it wouldn't pay shit."

So be glad that everyone in America doesn't do what you did.

I have a counterpoint. I believe that engineering-type work (including programming, and various other semi-theoretical semi-applied fields) doesn't have the traditional supply-demand labor curve. Or, rather, this: as supply of labor increases, demand doesn't stay constant - it also increases. If you have ten thousand engineers and ten thousand jobs, but then you find you have twenty thousand engineers in a very short while... you're going to get a hell of a lot of job growth. Because traditional industries will expand to use more labor, as doing so will give them a competitive advantage (better/more products); not only that, but a lot of the labor force will shuffle itself and branch off to form startups, or bring talent to areas that was lacking it, and so on.

Overnight this would be an issue, but if - for example - a government put in policies that doubled the percentage of new graduates who are engineers/scientists/programmers/architects/whatever over the next 20-30 years (a generation), I'll bet dollars to donuts they wouldn't be getting paid any less. On the contrary, we'd see entirely new fields we can't yet imagine spring up, and older fields expand scope.

People complain about H1Bs and whatnot but I welcome them with open arms. If an immigrant - lacking language skills, cultural fit, and so on - can take my job, then either I don't deserve it or I don't want to work at the company making such a silly mistake. On the contrary, I know a couple H1Bs, who are excellent workers and get paid only slightly less than anyone else (with the difference explained by the cost of getting them in the country). Competition is great and benefits almost everyone in the long term.

boyerbt

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2014, 02:15:57 PM »
As of today I owe $65,524.06 and will be paying it off within 2.5 years. I was absolutely unaware of the actual costs of getting my B.A. degree and applied for loans to cover all of the costs. Had I known what the per month repayment costs for 10-20 years were going to be I would have worked more during college as well as applied for more scholarships as my grades and good enough to earn at least some decent scholarships.

But I have begun to turn it around. I have been reading the site now for about 10 months and have paid back a little less than $15k in 9 months. I am now throwing everything at the debt and will be quite happy once I can look back on all of this as hard learned/earned life lessons.

Allie

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #40 on: November 17, 2014, 03:55:38 PM »
Between my masters degree in psych and the hubs law degree, we owed over 100,000...maybe 120,000.  His law degree was totally and completely worth it.  Mine, not so much.  Our parents helped out, but we were young and I was stupid.  Our student loans funded our degrees, some lovely vacations, tech gadgets (like a digital camera when they were new and cool), and plenty of fun.  After school we piled on the debt with cars (25k), a boat (15k), etc.  We spent three years dumping money into our loans and paid them down to 40,000 which is consolidated at 1.8% and a hefty mortgage.  Those can stay for now.

SpicyMcHaggus

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2014, 08:56:32 AM »
Between my masters degree in psych and the hubs law degree, we owed over 100,000...maybe 120,000.  His law degree was totally and completely worth it.  Mine, not so much.  Our parents helped out, but we were young and I was stupid.  Our student loans funded our degrees, some lovely vacations, tech gadgets (like a digital camera when they were new and cool), and plenty of fun.  After school we piled on the debt with cars (25k), a boat (15k), etc.  We spent three years dumping money into our loans and paid them down to 40,000 which is consolidated at 1.8% and a hefty mortgage.  Those can stay for now.

Do you mind if I ask about your degree? I have ongoing debates with many people about the employability of psych degrees. (Currently trying to convince a cousin to study something that is a hard science or skill).  While I have never seen an engineering / computer science / nursing / finance / accounting    graduate struggle to get a job in their field, I have seen people with sociology / psychology / criminal justice / english / spanish / journalism  struggle to find work that is in their area with a living wage.  Is this the case with you?

infogoon

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2014, 09:11:00 AM »
Do you mind if I ask about your degree? I have ongoing debates with many people about the employability of psych degrees. (Currently trying to convince a cousin to study something that is a hard science or skill).  While I have never seen an engineering / computer science / nursing / finance / accounting    graduate struggle to get a job in their field, I have seen people with sociology / psychology / criminal justice / english / spanish / journalism  struggle to find work that is in their area with a living wage.  Is this the case with you?

If you're looking for anecdotal evidence: One of my good friends is a banker with an undergraduate degree in Psych and an MBA -- he says it's a very useful combination.

seanc0x0

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2014, 10:43:37 AM »
A bit of advice to future sysadmins out there, since this seems to be a recurring job:
I have a CS degree from UC Davis. Excellent school. I paid my way through it myself - took me 6 years to complete the degree since I was working to pay for it. Well - I don't use it one bit. By my senior year and some assembly classes / linera algebra classes, I realized I wasn't cut out for programming and "D" is for "Done". I could handle advanced calculus just fine, but concepts of math beyond that blew my mind. Also, when you have guys knocking out 5 pages of code in an hour that takes you literally a WEEK to write, you know there's something wrong with your major.
I'm now in IT and I couldn't be happier.  I started out in helpdesk at $45K, move up, changed companies a few times, and now I'm a senior sysadmin / technical account manager for an IT outsourcing firm in San Diego, $80K at 31yo. I own a $210K 2br condo (it's San Diego, rememer? Houses start at $500K and it's $1m for a 4bd/4bath in a neighborhood you'll actually want to let your kids run around int), and am very happy with my mustachian career path.
The best advice I can give to future folks in IT:
1. Your degree doesn't mean squat. It can be in advanced chemistry or basic english, NOONE CARES
2. Start at helpdesk. Move your way up.
3. CHANGE COMPANIES OFTEN. Nothing spells RAISE like going to the new place. I got raises to the tune of $10-15K every time I changed jobs and left for a competitor.
4. Work on your communication skills. The face you show to your client and your communication skills will be your trademark.
5. Get certified. Get certified some more. Nothing says you're able to do the job like an MCSA cert... except an MCSE cert. Combine that with a CCNA cert and it's a guaranteed 6-figure income. All can be had with online training.
6. Profit!

You hit the nail on the head with this one. I have a B.Sc in Computer Science  with Honours in Software Engineering.  Turns out that while I'm pretty good at it, I hate software engineering, so I've moved into the IT admin side. Was fortunate enough to get into research computing and now work in research data management with a bit of high performance computing thrown in. Much more interesting!

Quote
Ok someone take this thread back on topic please.

Guess that won't be me. :)

Setruss

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2014, 11:16:59 AM »
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Do you mind if I ask about your degree? I have ongoing debates with many people about the employability of psych degrees. (Currently trying to convince a cousin to study something that is a hard science or skill).  While I have never seen an engineering / computer science / nursing / finance / accounting    graduate struggle to get a job in their field, I have seen people with sociology / psychology / criminal justice / english / spanish / journalism  struggle to find work that is in their area with a living wage.  Is this the case with you?

I'm an engineering student and I'm active on /r/engineering and /r/engineeringstudents on reddit. With more students flocking towards STEM degrees for jobs, the job market is getting more and more competitive. Internships are competitive. Wages are stagnating or dropping. People are sending out hundreds of apps for internships/ jobs and getting no responses. You really need to work hard, even in STEM degrees, to make yourself hireable. It's no cake walk.

nawhite

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2014, 11:28:59 AM »
Wife and I combined for around 180k when we graduated. Wife had a BA in Psych, I had a BS/MS in Computer Engineering. I had no trouble getting a job that paid me extra for the Masters. My wife did Teach For America for a semester but had a terrible experience, then worked as a self-employed tutor and has now been at a special needs pre-school for a few years as a lead teacher (which fortunately is a salaried position not an hourly one). My wife is now working towards her Masters in Special Ed and we are doing it smartly paying with cash and applying for lots of scholarships, this has brought the cost to under 5k/year.

4 years in we are down under 70k left on the loans. Lots of months we are paying $3,000 or more per month (especially on months we owe grad school tuition). We've now got all of the interest rates at 3.75% or lower and are prioritizing 401k's and IRA's with anything leftover going towards the student loans. Even so, I think we'll be done with all of them in another 3 years or so.

I've started to see more and more articles explaining matching the amount of loans you get to your expected starting salary. Aim for no more than 1x your starting salary in loans and certainly no more than 2x and you'll be ok. It's the advice I've found myself giving to family/friends/mentees who are looking at college and it seems pretty spot on in my opinion. My wife and I were around 1.5x and have done pretty well with a little bit of financial savvy and luck.

Angie55

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2014, 11:42:51 AM »
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Do you mind if I ask about your degree? I have ongoing debates with many people about the employability of psych degrees. (Currently trying to convince a cousin to study something that is a hard science or skill).  While I have never seen an engineering / computer science / nursing / finance / accounting    graduate struggle to get a job in their field, I have seen people with sociology / psychology / criminal justice / english / spanish / journalism  struggle to find work that is in their area with a living wage.  Is this the case with you?

I'm an engineering student and I'm active on /r/engineering and /r/engineeringstudents on reddit. With more students flocking towards STEM degrees for jobs, the job market is getting more and more competitive. Internships are competitive. Wages are stagnating or dropping. People are sending out hundreds of apps for internships/ jobs and getting no responses. You really need to work hard, even in STEM degrees, to make yourself hireable. It's no cake walk.

I'll add my experience with a two-engineer household. The market is competitive and most jobs are based on contracts. Company loses a contract? Everyone laid off. Company gets a contract? HUGE hiring spree. Seems to go in 2-4 year cycles. Hiring/Layoff/Hiring/Layoff is pretty typical with any companies that depend on government contracts. Unless you live for work, it can be difficult to stay at a job 5 years. Then once you are laid off there is huge competition.

The other really difficult thing with STEM jobs  is that its difficult to find a replacement job in your area. You easily get pidgeonholed into whatever industry/specialty your first job out of college is. Your job search has a high possibility that you will need to relocate unless your area is rich in your industry. You can get a little behind others when you have to relocate and start over every 5 years. Add a second person who needs to find a job in their niche the job search gets that much harder.

This is only my experience and may not be commonplace.

GuitarStv

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2014, 11:54:03 AM »
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Do you mind if I ask about your degree? I have ongoing debates with many people about the employability of psych degrees. (Currently trying to convince a cousin to study something that is a hard science or skill).  While I have never seen an engineering / computer science / nursing / finance / accounting    graduate struggle to get a job in their field, I have seen people with sociology / psychology / criminal justice / english / spanish / journalism  struggle to find work that is in their area with a living wage.  Is this the case with you?

I'm an engineering student and I'm active on /r/engineering and /r/engineeringstudents on reddit. With more students flocking towards STEM degrees for jobs, the job market is getting more and more competitive. Internships are competitive. Wages are stagnating or dropping. People are sending out hundreds of apps for internships/ jobs and getting no responses. You really need to work hard, even in STEM degrees, to make yourself hireable. It's no cake walk.

I'll add my experience with a two-engineer household. The market is competitive and most jobs are based on contracts. Company loses a contract? Everyone laid off. Company gets a contract? HUGE hiring spree. Seems to go in 2-4 year cycles. Hiring/Layoff/Hiring/Layoff is pretty typical with any companies that depend on government contracts. Unless you live for work, it can be difficult to stay at a job 5 years. Then once you are laid off there is huge competition.

The other really difficult thing with STEM jobs  is that its difficult to find a replacement job in your area. You easily get pidgeonholed into whatever industry/specialty your first job out of college is. Your job search has a high possibility that you will need to relocate unless your area is rich in your industry. You can get a little behind others when you have to relocate and start over every 5 years. Add a second person who needs to find a job in their niche the job search gets that much harder.

This is only my experience and may not be commonplace.

This has largely been my experience as well (2 engineer household).

mydogismyheart

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2014, 12:25:48 PM »
So many of my friend's kids are hitting college age and applying to big state universities and taking out loans.  It makes me sad.  Students need to either work on getting more scholarships before they can go to a big university or start out small like I did and work your way up.  The first couple of years of college are usually basic courses like English and Math that a student can take anywhere. I did mine at a small local community college, lived at home with my parents, and worked 2 jobs the whole time.  I then worked my way up to a local state college and then on to my Master's degree. I also took several courses online for cheaper.  My total cost of education was somewhere around $38K (yes, this was 10 years ago).  Most of which was paid off by the time I graduated by hard work, scholarships, and matching funds from my parents (which I know most don't get).  But that's not the point.  I got out into my respective field and met people who had gone to huge ivy league schools and had over $100K in debt and yet we were making the same exact amount of money working the same job.  I know there are many cases (like doctors and lawyers) where large student loan debts may be unavoidable.  But so many people are choosing big fancy educations when they can do just as well off of community college, online courses, and state schools and spend way less.

Allie

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Re: Sad stories of high student loans, share yours.
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2014, 03:00:32 PM »
Between my masters degree in psych and the hubs law degree, we owed over 100,000...maybe 120,000.  His law degree was totally and completely worth it.  Mine, not so much.  Our parents helped out, but we were young and I was stupid.  Our student loans funded our degrees, some lovely vacations, tech gadgets (like a digital camera when they were new and cool), and plenty of fun.  After school we piled on the debt with cars (25k), a boat (15k), etc.  We spent three years dumping money into our loans and paid them down to 40,000 which is consolidated at 1.8% and a hefty mortgage.  Those can stay for now.

Do you mind if I ask about your degree? I have ongoing debates with many people about the employability of psych degrees. (Currently trying to convince a cousin to study something that is a hard science or skill).  While I have never seen an engineering / computer science / nursing / finance / accounting    graduate struggle to get a job in their field, I have seen people with sociology / psychology / criminal justice / english / spanish / journalism  struggle to find work that is in their area with a living wage.  Is this the case with you?


I think the knowledge of working with people gained with a psych degree would be an excellent compliment to a skill set that is gainfully employable that involves people - business, sales, etc.  In classes and seminars dedicated to negotiation and mediation my husband regularly learns principals from psychology.  In that way it's a little like English, you get great skills writing but not many practical skills.

If you want to actually work with people who need counseling, case management, support, etc. be prepared for a low paying and highly stressful job.  My first job out of my BS was as an aide to children.  It involved being hit, bitten, feces, and it paid horribly.  It was stressful in a very different way from my husband's job or my parents' IT jobs.  Some of my friends paid their dues getting experience and went on to State jobs in admin.  Some jumped ship and went into other fields.  Some, myself included, went on to a masters.  In all but the most impoverished, rural areas to do one on one counseling, supervise, or administer programs, you at least need a Masters.  After your masters, most states require a few years of supervised, low paying work.  Most counsellors (myself included) who can charge a good private pay or insurance rate have years of experience; a good referral network built through lots of poorly paid agency work; and multiple licenses and certifications.

It's unlikely that a new grad, especially with BA, will get a good paying, satisfying job in an actual human services field.

Honestly, even after I completed my MA, I was completely unprepared for the breadth and depth of awfulness I would experience providing counseling and support.  I specialize in children with trauma histories, which is particularly rough.  On many occasions I cursed my past self for not choosing accounting, nursing, IT, etc.  If my husbands salary didn't support us comfortably, I would have probably gone back to school for something else.  The colleagues I have who are most satisfied came into the field after making money doing something else and "retiring" to human services. 

That's just my experience, I would love to hear from someone who had a different one.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!