Author Topic: Roommate Rant  (Read 75068 times)

Making Cookies

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #200 on: July 18, 2016, 08:36:37 AM »
Beware family businesses and divorces. Apparently in my home town there was a major company that had some sort of family drama/feud and they forgot to manage the business. Down the drain it went along with several hundred collateral jobs plus all the little businesses that spring up to service the big company.

One fellow I know didn't get paid for serviced rendered and another two found themselves without a job in their 50s. They both had a really hard time replacing those jobs. One did (barely) and the other didn't.


Primm

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #201 on: July 20, 2016, 11:55:51 PM »
Whoa,  reading that,   I just got an earworm...


"I'm just a gigolo
everywhere I go
people know the part
I'm playing"....

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/david-lee-roth/just-a-gigolo.html
David Lee Roth..


Not exactly the same,  but how long until he wears out his current friends, and then starts looking for new "friends"..? hmmm....

Awesome!

For the last 4 days I have quite literally woken up and driven to work with this bloody song playing in my head. Until this moment, when I re-read this, I couldn't for the life of me figure out where I'd heard it that planted the seed.

Now I know. Thanks. Thanks very much.

BlueHouse

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #202 on: July 21, 2016, 01:30:57 PM »



I get that you're not an asshole, and it's OK that you aren't, but that doesn't mean you have to be the blood supply to a 200-pound mosquito.

LOL

+1
I think that quotes like I wrote it, but I promise, I am nowhere near that funny.  that is pure GS. 

yuka

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #203 on: July 22, 2016, 09:14:35 PM »
Beware family businesses and divorces. Apparently in my home town there was a major company that had some sort of family drama/feud and they forgot to manage the business. Down the drain it went along with several hundred collateral jobs plus all the little businesses that spring up to service the big company.

One fellow I know didn't get paid for serviced rendered and another two found themselves without a job in their 50s. They both had a really hard time replacing those jobs. One did (barely) and the other didn't.

YES, this is absolutely true. My dad used to be a financial planner, and he had all sorts of stories about siblings who felt betrayed in a business arrangement. They ended up self-immolating with their savings, rather than letting one another see any profit.

In my own family, there's been a business that employed many family members for decades. The owner, my uncle, finally sold it to some VC shop that jettisons expenses and tries to turn it around in 5 years or so for a quick buck. Anyway, several family members, rather than formalized equity, had been receiving large salaries that were tied to company profits rather than being solid numbers. Anyway, the VC people ended that pretty fast, and a lot of people were mad. I consider it to be a big accomplishment that my two uncles are on speaking terms (and that only because of family pressure and religious convictions.)

Making Cookies

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #204 on: July 25, 2016, 10:25:04 AM »
Why didn't he let some other family member take the helm and buy him out?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #205 on: July 29, 2016, 12:51:59 AM »
Why didn't he let some other family member take the helm and buy him out?

He might not have had any offers. It's easier to dip your cup into the well than to operate the pump.

yuka

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #206 on: August 01, 2016, 06:37:20 PM »
Why didn't he let some other family member take the helm and buy him out?

He might not have had any offers. It's easier to dip your cup into the well than to operate the pump.

Lol, as always a very quote-able addition, GS.

First of all, he's very secretive about money, so selling within the family would've meant sharing info about his net worth. However, having said that, I think it was probably a couple tens of millions, and no one else has that kind of money sitting around. You may have been picturing something smaller.

Making Cookies

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #207 on: August 02, 2016, 08:45:51 AM »
I was picturing something smaller.

Also I was picturing a situation where they buy him out and pay him back with earnings from the company. Silent-partner style.

Kitsune

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #208 on: September 12, 2016, 10:09:36 AM »
Resurrecting this thread to say thanks, guys. :)

My SIL started her Standard Manipulative Bullshit, predictably on schedule (she claims it's 'her depression', I say that if I can predict 2 months earlier the exact date and method in which she's gonna act out I have doubts... seriously, I put it in the calendar in late July. I was off by 1 day).

She did it again last night. I spent the conversation basically telling myself to corral my fucks and not set them loose, and wound up escaping the conversation in about 1/3 of the time we'd have usually been stuck there listening to the sniveling, having made it clear that NO, she can't live with us/involve us in her drama with her parents/borrow money, because I am not a universal sucker and this is Not My Problem in a fairly epic way.

The Money Mustache Forums: where you learn how to stop giving a fuck. ;)

RosieTR

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #209 on: September 13, 2016, 12:43:38 PM »
Resurrecting this thread to say thanks, guys. :)

My SIL started her Standard Manipulative Bullshit, predictably on schedule (she claims it's 'her depression', I say that if I can predict 2 months earlier the exact date and method in which she's gonna act out I have doubts... seriously, I put it in the calendar in late July. I was off by 1 day).

She did it again last night. I spent the conversation basically telling myself to corral my fucks and not set them loose, and wound up escaping the conversation in about 1/3 of the time we'd have usually been stuck there listening to the sniveling, having made it clear that NO, she can't live with us/involve us in her drama with her parents/borrow money, because I am not a universal sucker and this is Not My Problem in a fairly epic way.

The Money Mustache Forums: where you learn how to stop giving a fuck. ;)

Good on you!!!!

Have thoroughly enjoyed the discussion on crappy roommates and manipulative asshairs!

I had the total opposite problem to the OP's potential issue: shared a 5 bedroom house with 4 other women and 5 dogs. Not a problem, in fact the woman next door said we were the best renters that had ever lived there. However, a couple months before the lease was due to renew, the landlord sent a contract offering not to raise the rent if we renewed a couple months ahead. One roommate signed the contract and sent it back that she'd like to renew. She didn't include anyone else who lived there, just assumed for some reason that we'd all keep living there. Oops. Everyone else, including me, had other plans. I had been out of town when all of this occurred and didn't even know about it, but suddenly we were all the bad guys for not wanting to continue, and we were supposed to find her some roommates etc. I told her that I had signed nothing, I hadn't even seen the document, and she never asked me my plans for lease renewal. She *freaked out* because she didn't have enough income to cover the full rent. My thought was, well why did you sign the lease solo, then? She was 40ish years old and I was in my 20s...why do I understand leases better than someone with 15+ more years of experience? And why would she want her soon-to-be-former roommates to pick the upcoming roommates? I could give a rat's ass who she lived with and I certainly wouldn't want anyone else picking who I live with! I think she did find roommates before everyone moved out but WTF. I wound up living with one of the other women in a better (for us) location, and am still friends with her to this day.


PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #210 on: May 16, 2017, 12:42:49 PM »
I'M BACK, Y'ALL!

Motherfucker.

Gosh, I don't think I've even logged in here for the last 6 months, and my last update to this thread was back in July. All kinds of new and exciting things have been happening since then. I'll skip that stuff, though, and bring you up to speed on Jack:

So the last time I updated, Jack had picked up a side job to replace his lost unemployment check, and was looking at a potential promotion at the movie theater. Long story short, promotion never went through, and after our friend with the production company dealt with Jack's shitty work ethic for a couple weeks, he stopped getting hired for those gigs.

Meanwhile, I got a whole slew of new responsibilities at work, one of which includes managing a handful people who work on a "per-job" basis. They aren't employees, it's small, outsourced work that we just don't want to handle in-house due to the sheer volume of it. Pays $10-$15 per job, they do the work at home and send it back to me, the people I give the heaviest loads to are maxing out at maybe $400 a month. Not enough to live on, but not bad side income if you have a little free time and the right skill set. Jack happened to have tons of free time and a background in that skill set. I figured that since he wouldn't technically be an employee, the work was low priority, and he'd only be reporting to me... Screw it. I'd just gotten rid of two workers that weren't very good, needed the slack picked up, so gave him a shot.

Surprise, surprise, this isn't where the story goes south. It actually worked pretty well. Jack was desperate for cash, good at the work, and had a faster turnaround time than most of my other people. I was trying to chew through a mountain-sized backlog that my predecessor hadn't managed well, so plenty of work to throw at Jack whenever he asked for more. It wasn't huge money, but it was perfect work for a lazy stoner and enough to bridge his financial gap. Life was good for a few months.

We're sitting there at the beginning of 2017, things are pretty much chugging along smoothly. I'm looking at houses in the area, because I've been weighing the whole live-in landlord thing for a few years. Gotta boost the income and get back on track for FIRE, right? Jack's been fairly stable for ~6 months, occasionally it takes him a few weeks to pay me for his half of the electric bill or something, but nothing worth getting upset over.

"Damn, PencilThinStash, this is pretty boring," you're probably thinking. "I came here to see you rant about Jack, and so far you're not giving me anything." Hang on a little, I'm getting there.

I find a 3 bedroom fixer-upper with decent bones, less than half a mile from work. Old, awkward little house (1937), but loads of potential if I'm willing to put in the work. Buy it for $88k. 20% down on a 15 year mortgage, good rate, held back a good chunk of cash for repairs and such. Had about 2 months left on the apartment lease, plenty of time to throw myself into starting renovations before I had to move in. Jack agreed to move in too and pay me the $450/month he was paying at the apartment - Like I said, he's been fairly stable for a few months and rent's always gotten paid. Considering my monthly mortgage payment is only $503? Score! (Obviously there are things like property taxes and homeowner's insurance on top of that $503.)

So I got to work. Tearing down unnecessary walls, pulling up ugly tile to reveal hardwood, refinishing said hardwood (it's GORGEOUS now), painting, standing in an inch of basement water for two hours one night fixing the sump pump that decided to quit on me... You get the idea. Simultaneously started directing a children's musical theater production, because I'm an idiot and think I handle Alexander Hamilton levels of superhuman productivity. Not really important to the story other than to say I spent two months running myself into the ground, working harder than I ever have before in my life. I'm usually pretty laid back, but my stress level didn't drop below a 7/10 once during that period.

As this process is starting, Jack approaches me, talking about how he wants to work on the house with me, since he'll be living there too. Cool, it's a monstrous undertaking and I could use a little help. "Yeah, dude, you can just pay me minimum wage, like $8.50 an hour, and I'll even spend full days working on it while you're at the office."

Um, what?

I'm not going to pay you to work on upgrades that will directly benefit your own living space. And just because I'm happy to pay the guy $15 on a low-priority, practically no-deadline, per-job basis at work doesn't mean I trust him to work hourly out of my own pocket. Especially without supervision. He's still a lazy stoner, and I know that if I could knock out a particular job in 5 hours, I'd walk in at the end of the workday to see it only halfway finished, with him saying, "Hey, I worked on it for 8 hours!" That battle ain't worth my time. I gave a noncommittal "Yeah, maybe..." then sort of shot down the one or two offers he made after that.

Sidenote, in case I sound like a dick here, I never EXPECTED him to do any work on the house in the first place. He brought up the idea. I'm the one who took this load on my shoulders, it's my responsibility. I've had a handful of other (amazing) friends volunteer to help with projects, and while everybody knows the unspoken "provide pizza & beer" rule, nobody has ever asked me for direct fucking hourly reimbursement of their time.

Then there was Easter weekend, when my parents came into town with my brother and his girlfriend, and the four of them were GODDAMN SUPERHEROES with the amount of labor they poured into that house for me. Words can't express how fucking awesome they are. The whole weekend, Jack kept saying he'd be over to help alongside them, but then never show all day until we were breaking for dinner and then he'd show up for the free meal. "Oh, yeah, I tried texting PencilThinStash earlier, but he didn't respond and I wasn't sure where you guys were at." ......You mean between the hours of 9am and 7pm? When we said we'd be working at the house all day? You weren't sure where we were because my phone was off? But you knew where to come as soon as dinner rolled around and you were ready to mooch? Fuck off.

I wouldn't have even included that last paragraph in this whole story, except that my brother called me a few days later, laughing. Apparently he and Jack had stayed up talking one night after I'd gone to bed, and Jack was concerned that my family thinks he's lazy. "No, BrotherStash, I WANTED to be over there helping you guys on the house this weekend, but I know that PencilThinStash wants to tackle this thing himself. I'd totally be there, but I'm trying to respect that it's his project."

Holy hell, no, I just don't want to pay you for half-assed labor.

So everything to this point, while annoying, is really kind of dumb and not that big of a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I probably blew it out of proportion because, well, like I said earlier: renovations, theater commitments, starting to move into the house, full time job, volunteering at church... I overextended myself and started to snap from the strain. That's my fault for overestimating my own capabilities.

The real fun started when we actually moved in at the beginning of this month. I'd read a few books on being a landlord and drawn up a standard month-to-month agreement. Went over it with Jack point by point, made a few changes at his suggestion, then had it all ready to sign on the 1st. He'd just started a new job that paid $13/hour instead of the minimum wage he's been making for the last year, so we're in the clear, right?

So we both sign the agreement, which says he'll pay me on the first of the month. Standard "7 days to pay, otherwise $25 late fee, either of us can end the arrangement with 30 days notice" type of verbiage included. As he's handing it back to me, he says, "By the way, I'm not going to be able to pay you until the 25th this month."

Excuse me?

"Yeah, with this new job, I won't get my first paycheck until the 25th. I don't even have enough money to buy more food until then, that's why I've been so stressed over the last week."

WTF. What would he be doing if we were still at the apartment? I've gotten used to floating the guy a couple bucks here and there, but on top of what he already owed me, now it's close to $500. Thankfully I'm pretty liquid right now and it's not a massive financial strain, but come the fuck on. You know about this for over a week and don't tell me until the moment I ask you to pay? That's fucking sketchy.

Not 3 days later, I get a call from him that he got hit by a drunk driver. Thankfully he's alright, and the other guy's insurance has taken full responsibility, but there's a chance the car is totaled, and depending on how they determine value and payout... Well, that's up in the air for the time being. No point speculating.

I'm trying to be gracious, told him I'd waive the late fee for May/June. I get that paycheck schedules get screwy when you start a new job, I don't want to kick someone when they're down from a car accident... but this whole thing is clearly a shift from our roommates arrangement, and new boundaries are getting set as landlord/tenant. I just need to make sure I don't get screwed over in this thing as we're figuring out what the new normal is.

Anyways, sorry about the length for what probably wasn't the most exciting update. I'm sensing some drama on the horizon, though. Stay tuned.

In other news: the show is done, I'm all moved in, have time for a social life again, love the house, starting to see a pretty girl who seems pretty cool... Overall life's great. Except for this damn situation with Jack.

Apples

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #211 on: May 16, 2017, 12:51:37 PM »
I'm so glad you're back.  I'm so sorry Jack is still around though.  I'm sure other people will have actual input, but I just want to applaud you on moving into a duplex!  Woo!

Frankies Girl

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #212 on: May 16, 2017, 12:56:55 PM »
Dude.

Whyyyyyyyyy? You had the perfect out to dump this loser out of your life forever more.

You knew that he is a lazy, self-absorbed lying mooch. It wasn't a question of if, but when he'd relapse.

You had a chance to say "hey, Jack, I'm buying a house and as of the X month/day, I'll be vacating the shared apartment and you'll need to figure your shit out. It's been something."

Letting him move into your new place? Even with the contract, you're screwing yourself over because he likely won't vacate if you tell him to, and you'll have to evict him, and I'd be shocked if he didn't try to steal stuff or otherwise fuck you over if you end up going down that path.

So sad about this because otherwise you'd being doing really really great. You must have a need to enable this jerk or feel the need to self sabotage your progress somehow. :(

MrsDinero

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #213 on: May 16, 2017, 01:03:06 PM »
Congrats on the house, it sounds great, but why did you consciously and knowingly invite drama into your life?  Most likely you are going to have to have more drama to evict this drama from what could have been a drama-free home.

MgoSam

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #214 on: May 16, 2017, 01:23:36 PM »
Dude, I feel like you enjoy having drama in your house. If you do, that is your right of course, but I can't imagine living with such a problem. I run a business and have a lot of other stressors in my life, I love that my roommate (knock on wood) hasn't been one of them. The main stress that he gives me is mainly that he has an eye for detail and will point out things that need to fixing before they break, and that actually saves me a ton of stress.

Warlord1986

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #215 on: May 16, 2017, 01:36:59 PM »
Admit it, you enjoy the drama. It's like crack.

It's okay to admit it. We'll understand. He's your version of television. You pay money for the glorious feeling of being ticked off.

I say we'll understand, but that is contingent upon your continued updates of drama! If you don't provide us with stories for our amusement, we will turn on you.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #216 on: May 16, 2017, 01:43:45 PM »
I know, y'all, I know. I'm an idiot.

Like I said, things had been good between us for 6+ months when I bought the house. No drama, minimal mooching (off me anyways), nothing to complain about, got along just fine, hence my lack of updating in this thread. I was the only one with a mailbox key at the apartment, so I would have seen a notice if rent had ever been late, and it never was. I assumed everything was solid and we'd just keep on trucking along.

I am not a smart man.

Admit it, you enjoy the drama. It's like crack.

It's okay to admit it. We'll understand. He's your version of television. You pay money for the glorious feeling of being ticked off.

Hahaha you may be on to something. Although it's not so much the drama I get a kick out of, it's the fact that I have some narcissistic tendencies and enjoy feeling superior to other people (one of MANY character flaws, I'm trying to work on it). It's incredibly easy to feel superior to Jack.

MgoSam

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #217 on: May 16, 2017, 01:48:55 PM »
I should clarify that I'm not hoping you evict your roommate as your posts are very entertaining.

TaraB

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #218 on: May 16, 2017, 01:55:01 PM »
I only discovered this thread today and I definitely laughed out loud.

Pencil, Pencil, Pencil......congrats on buying your own place but boy you gotta dump that 200lb mosquito!

PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #219 on: May 16, 2017, 02:19:53 PM »
I only discovered this thread today and I definitely laughed out loud.

*Theatrical bow with an annoying amount of extra flourish*

I just went back and reread everything I've put in this thread... I should point out, for anyone who remembers the first post from a year ago: The friend whose stepdad was getting ready to "make millions every week" has, shockingly enough, NOT started pulling in that level of money, nor has he gifted Jack $100k yet.

Just in case anybody was wondering.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #220 on: May 16, 2017, 02:25:08 PM »
I'M BACK, Y'ALL!

Motherfucker.

You realize you've actually corrected the fucked-up situation, right? Jack isn't trying to be your buddy and you don't want him to. This is how a beta male behaves when encountering the alpha's buddies. He does not try to demonstrate buddy behavior and part of the reason is because you've just spent several months beating it out of him.

Requesting payment in exchange for services was 100% appropriate for Jack to do and there's absolutely no reason he should offer to do it for free. He's your tenant, not your friend. The absolute last thing you need as a landlord is for Jack to "help" with repairs in an unpaid capacity because he could later use that as grounds for rent abatement. Having your family members and friends come over is a totally separate case because those are your social peers and it's fully acceptable for them to work in exchange for beer and pizza. Friends help friends, and there's a sense of communal contribution to the results because reciprocity is strongly implied. Jack isn't part of that dynamic and he never will be, because he's a deer tick. It's actually better and more socially appropriate for him to skive off on those occasions.

All you need to do now is get Jack caught up on the rent. You may wish to set up a formal barter agreement given that you've got more than enough work to go around and don't really need the dough. Just make it by-the-task instead of by-the-hour.

It's actually right and appropriate for you to pay Jack to work on and upgrade the house even though it directly benefits him. Just make sure that the work you pay him to do is in the yard, the kitchen, or other common areas. Continue to treat him as an employee, not a household member, unless of course you want him to decide (again) that it IS his home and that he IS entitled to a fair share of all your food and booze.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #221 on: May 16, 2017, 03:14:36 PM »
I'M BACK, Y'ALL!

Motherfucker.

You realize you've actually corrected the fucked-up situation, right? Jack isn't trying to be your buddy and you don't want him to. This is how a beta male behaves when encountering the alpha's buddies. He does not try to demonstrate buddy behavior and part of the reason is because you've just spent several months beating it out of him.

Requesting payment in exchange for services was 100% appropriate for Jack to do and there's absolutely no reason he should offer to do it for free. He's your tenant, not your friend. The absolute last thing you need as a landlord is for Jack to "help" with repairs in an unpaid capacity because he could later use that as grounds for rent abatement. Having your family members and friends come over is a totally separate case because those are your social peers and it's fully acceptable for them to work in exchange for beer and pizza. Friends help friends, and there's a sense of communal contribution to the results because reciprocity is strongly implied. Jack isn't part of that dynamic and he never will be, because he's a deer tick. It's actually better and more socially appropriate for him to skive off on those occasions.

All you need to do now is get Jack caught up on the rent. You may wish to set up a formal barter agreement given that you've got more than enough work to go around and don't really need the dough. Just make it by-the-task instead of by-the-hour.

It's actually right and appropriate for you to pay Jack to work on and upgrade the house even though it directly benefits him. Just make sure that the work you pay him to do is in the yard, the kitchen, or other common areas. Continue to treat him as an employee, not a household member, unless of course you want him to decide (again) that it IS his home and that he IS entitled to a fair share of all your food and booze.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, Grim, I didn't realize how much I missed you. Hope life's treating you well, my wise internet-stranger friend.

That is, as always, exactly what I needed to hear to put all of this into perspective. It's a fucked-up goddamn shame that I can't just treat the guy like a normal friend. I naturally sort of default to doing it after so many years of knowing him, but you're right. As much as I like the guy, aside from the financial/mooching horseshit, that horseshit itself necessitates that I have to hold him at arm's length. I only really get burned/upset when I forget that and start to act like he's another average buddy, or expect normal behavior out of him. Fuck, I figured this out a year ago:

I started to get a little mad, until I had a semi-zen moment and realized... this is who he is. This is what he does. Some things just ARE.

Birds fly. Fish swim. The Dude abides. Jack mooches.

It's the same song, same dance. Nothing's fucking changed here except the location.

I was against the idea of having him work off the money he owed me, but... Ah, damn you. In a weird, twisted way, that's one hell of an argument.

Shane

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #222 on: May 17, 2017, 01:11:42 AM »
Dude.

Whyyyyyyyyy? You had the perfect out to dump this loser out of your life forever more.

You knew that he is a lazy, self-absorbed lying mooch. It wasn't a question of if, but when he'd relapse.

You had a chance to say "hey, Jack, I'm buying a house and as of the X month/day, I'll be vacating the shared apartment and you'll need to figure your shit out. It's been something."

Letting him move into your new place? Even with the contract, you're screwing yourself over because he likely won't vacate if you tell him to, and you'll have to evict him, and I'd be shocked if he didn't try to steal stuff or otherwise fuck you over if you end up going down that path.

So sad about this because otherwise you'd being doing really really great. You must have a need to enable this jerk or feel the need to self sabotage your progress somehow. :(

^^^^^+1

You already knew Jack was a loser, but yet you invited him to move into your new place anyway. WTF?

Ann

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #223 on: May 17, 2017, 10:15:48 AM »
Yeah, I don't think the revival of this thread will go the way you hoped.  If you have juicy tales about Jack -- well, it's hard to be sympathetic when you obviously determined that the entertainment and ego-boost of having him around was worth the drama.  It would be amazing to hear how his life has turned around and he circumvented expectations, but we'd still interpret that skeptically and wait for the relapse.

Maurits28

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #224 on: May 17, 2017, 11:18:27 AM »
Awesome, what a joy to follow.

PTS: keep the posts coming, we need this :-)

BTW what happened to the $120 / month cable / internet etc? I'm sure you corrected that in your own house didn't you?

Cache_Stash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #225 on: May 17, 2017, 11:20:23 AM »
PencilThinStache: Excellent. You've just proven that you can assert your alpha status and be forgiven. Continue to do this at all times and you will enjoy a good and happy life without having to actually kill the people who piss you off.

If your goal is to maintain your happy household, your next step is not actually going to be a renewal of your struggle against moocherdom. You're going to take advantage of the fact that you are now alpha. This means you do what the ancient kings did, and reward your loyal retainer for his gesture of submission. But you do not do it in a way that suggests that mooching will be rewarded. This guy wants to get somewhat wasted at your expense. Now that you know what he wants, you can control him.

Go to the liquor store when you're damn well good and ready-- not necessarily today. Purchase some of the libation that YOU like to consume, in a quantity that makes sense. This will be a different kind of optimization exercise than your usual Mustachian instincts would suggest. You're not trying to try to save money by buying in bulk. Today, you will optimize on the scale that produces a happy life for you in the long run. So, come home with a mickey, preferably something you like.

With this mickey, you begin by pouring yourself a generous drink, the better to toast your success. You may treat your newly compliant beta roommate to a shot or even a double, which you will pour for him. But maintain control of the booze, and consume every drop yourself. Do this in front of him until the entire thing is finished. In this way, you share a small portion of your bounty, and you acknowledge the continuation of a social bond between the two of you. But you do it in a way that allows you to maintain control, and like the lion who feasts first upon the freshly killed wildebeest, you share only what you wish to share.

Under no circumstances do you perform any of this suggested "splitting" activity. That implies some kind of equal division, and the alpha does not share equally. Not if he wants to stay alpha. Nor do you allow him to touch the bottle. It's your bottle and you're making it clear that you're going to finish the whole thing and satisfy your needs without taking responsibility for satisfying his. (Which is why you're not going to come home with a magnum, unless you're feeling really ambitious: THERE MUST BE NO LEFTOVERS.) The entire point is that you're going to treat yourself.

EPIC post.  This is spot on.

Just Joe

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #226 on: May 17, 2017, 03:01:10 PM »
I seriously think I heard something on the news about Trump doing this with ice cream and pie with guests. They get one scoop and he gets two. Nobody else gets two scoops but him. WTH?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #227 on: May 17, 2017, 05:01:53 PM »
I seriously think I heard something on the news about Trump doing this with ice cream and pie with guests. They get one scoop and he gets two. Nobody else gets two scoops but him. WTH?

It's possible. Trump understands power psychology. In fact he's a master of it. His grasp on other things is being debated elsewhere on the Net-- for good reason-- but in terms of social warfare and power psychology he's a fucking genius.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #228 on: May 17, 2017, 05:11:59 PM »
It's a fucked-up goddamn shame that I can't just treat the guy like a normal friend. I naturally sort of default to doing it after so many years of knowing him, but you're right. As much as I like the guy, aside from the financial/mooching horseshit, that horseshit itself necessitates that I have to hold him at arm's length. I only really get burned/upset when I forget that and start to act like he's another average buddy, or expect normal behavior out of him. Fuck, I figured this out a year ago:

I started to get a little mad, until I had a semi-zen moment and realized... this is who he is. This is what he does. Some things just ARE.

Birds fly. Fish swim. The Dude abides. Jack mooches.

It's the same song, same dance. Nothing's fucking changed here except the location.

I was against the idea of having him work off the money he owed me, but... Ah, damn you. In a weird, twisted way, that's one hell of an argument.

You didn't mention anyone putting a gun to your head and forcing you to offer him a rental contract, so I'm guessing it was consensual on your part. The man may become a fairly good and reliable tenant so long as you don't try to make him into a buddy (NEVER drink with him again, by the way). In the meantime, he's pushing the limits to see what you'll do.

Enforce the contract, and don't be a dick about it, but make sure you get paid one way or another. At no point should you offer to let him work off all his rent (you'll get ripped off) but make sure you get your fair due because there will be no rescue. For landlords, there's no such thing as a god. No golden chariot will come thundering out of the sky to whisk away the post-sharknado mess if for some reason you fail to get what's yours. It's not the tenant's job to hold up your end of the agreement (which involves enforcing consequences if the tenant doesn't hold up his). Know your role. Work your role. This (slipping into Hyman Roth mode here) is the business we've chosen.

The landlord/tenant relationship is an inherently power-unbalanced social dyad in which the landlord is the alpha. Like it or not you're in charge. So turn up the tango music (preferably one of the really violent songs about epic knife fights), squeeze your ass into a pair of toreador pants, and take the lead already.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2017, 09:26:48 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

With This Herring

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #229 on: May 17, 2017, 07:12:52 PM »
*snip* So turn up the tango music (preferably one of the really violent songs about epic knife fights), squeeze your ass into a pair of toreador pants, and take the lead already.

Though the tone isn't quite right, I enjoy "Bust Your Knee Caps" by Pomplamoose.

Goldielocks

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #230 on: May 17, 2017, 11:56:03 PM »
ummm   ?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #231 on: May 18, 2017, 09:48:07 AM »
ummm   ?

You know, Sigmund Freud would have had a field day with tango music, because of all the knife fight references.

Zamboni

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #232 on: June 04, 2017, 12:41:43 PM »
^You're killing me, Squeak, killing me.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #233 on: June 08, 2017, 03:21:49 AM »
hahahahahhahahhahahha

Everyone knows a Jack.

BabyShark

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #234 on: June 08, 2017, 07:10:06 AM »
I love this thread and am so glad there was an update.

PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #235 on: June 09, 2017, 12:09:47 PM »
Hm, I suppose I should update again...

Well, let's just say that I'm 100% convinced that there is a god, and He fucking LOVES Jack.

Jack's car that got hit by the drunk driver was totaled - but the other guy's insurance did that little "pay more than it's worth so you don't sue" deal and paid him ~$6500 for a car that was probably worth $3k. Jack used his insurance check to get a replacement car for around $4k and then squared up with me with the remaining money, even getting his June rent in a few days early.

On top of that, apparently his new job is a great fit and he's hitting all his sales quotas. If that keeps up, with commission he'll be making roughly $50-60k/year, instead of the <$20k he's been making at the movie theater for the last 2 years.

To be completely honest, it's a bit of a weird blow to my ego to be making less than him when I feel like I'm the one who's made all the responsible, non-mooching decisions over the years... but eh, that's just my own stupid insecurity wrestling with the fact that I probably don't live up to my full potential when it comes to career and income. I'll get over it. This thread isn't the place for that nonsense.

So life is stable and boring again... but I'll share one fun detail from a couple weeks ago to make this update worth your time:

We sat down and had a discussion about how I needed more of a heads up in the future if he wasn't able to make rent on time, and I flat out told him that the way he handled it at the beginning of May felt sketchy to me. According to him, he'd told me several weeks ahead of time when I was drunk... considering how busy I was during those weeks and how I didn't have time in my schedule to drink heavily, I'm not sure when that would have been, but whatever. New ground rules set that any time we discuss something serious while drunk, we're having a follow up conversation sober to make sure we're both on the same page. That feels like common sense to me, not sure why I had to come out and specifically make it an official thing... but I've been sober for a few weeks anyways (unrelated reasons), so it hasn't been applicable yet.

It was a long, heated, come-to-Jesus conversation that covered several other topics, including the overall mooching, and I had to chuckle at one point in the height of the argument when he turned to me and said, "Look, if you think that I've ever been a mooch, well I don't agree and I'll move out right now. Rich Friend is buying a house and has said that I'm welcome to move in with him rent-free. I have an option to live for free, and I stay here because I like living with you, but if you think I'm a mooch then I don't feel welcome and I'm out of here."

If you think I'm a mooch, I'm not, and I'll go live with Rich Friend rent-free to prove it.

Irony so delicious you can practically taste it.

Anyways, argument settled down and he didn't move out - I can already hear some of you screaming, "WHY DIDN'T YOU KICK THE BUM OUT, YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE, YOUR PERFECT FUCKING SHOT AND ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS TAKE IT!!!"

Yeah, I know, I know, I'm a masochistic dumbass. Unfortunately, I don't have another renter lined up for my third bedroom yet (need to finish getting my second bathroom installed first) and I'm a greedy asshole who wants to keep the extra income rolling in, small as it is.

Like I said, the situation is stable and drama-free for now... But I'm sure I'll be back with more stories eventually.

nouveauRiche

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #236 on: June 09, 2017, 12:25:06 PM »

I can already hear some of you screaming, "WHY DIDN'T YOU KICK THE BUM OUT, YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE, YOUR PERFECT FUCKING SHOT AND ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS TAKE IT!!!"


Argh!  You beat me to it.

p.s.  Thanks for the update.  Keep 'em coming.

dreadmoose

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #237 on: June 09, 2017, 03:17:31 PM »
Mostly posting to follow, but I love that right now YOU are the Rich Friend he's living with... not rent-free but it appears he's slowly working on that..

Ann

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #238 on: June 09, 2017, 06:12:55 PM »
If you think I'm a mooch, I'm not, and I'll go live with Rich Friend rent-free to prove it.

Irony so delicious you can practically taste it.

Anyways, argument settled down and he didn't move out - I can already hear some of you screaming, "WHY DIDN'T YOU KICK THE BUM OUT, YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE, YOUR PERFECT FUCKING SHOT AND ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS TAKE IT!!!"

Yeah, I'm still going to say it.  The irony is you have now had multiple opportunities to separate yourself from Jack if you really felt he was not a good roommate, yet continue to choose to live with him because you feel either he ISN'T a big enough mooch to be unprofitable OR you just enjoy the drama.

So, Jack's right: IF you REALLY thought he was 100% mooch you wouldn't keep him around.

Paul der Krake

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #239 on: June 09, 2017, 11:46:10 PM »
Twist: PencilStash and Jack are the same person, he's been reporting his own conversations to us this entire time.

Cue final scene of fight club.

Shane

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #240 on: June 10, 2017, 04:19:12 AM »
Paul der Krake, pretty sure you're right:

PencilThinStash = Jack = Tyler Durden

dmac680chi

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #241 on: June 10, 2017, 02:25:36 PM »
Hey OP, welcome to Chicago! Is your roomie Catholic? Let's introduce him to my roommate. I'll be happy if someone else dealt with her not cleaning. :)

Seriously though, move out. And he really isn't your friend.

Haha as a Catholic too funny! That said is it a Catholic thing? I don't think it would be.

I'd hate to see what happens for this guy when he's in a relationship.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #242 on: June 14, 2017, 08:14:53 PM »
Hm, I suppose I should update again...

Well, let's just say that I'm 100% convinced that there is a god, and He fucking LOVES Jack.

Jack's car that got hit by the drunk driver was totaled - but the other guy's insurance did that little "pay more than it's worth so you don't sue" deal and paid him ~$6500 for a car that was probably worth $3k. Jack used his insurance check to get a replacement car for around $4k and then squared up with me with the remaining money, even getting his June rent in a few days early.

On top of that, apparently his new job is a great fit and he's hitting all his sales quotas. If that keeps up, with commission he'll be making roughly $50-60k/year, instead of the <$20k he's been making at the movie theater for the last 2 years.

To be completely honest, it's a bit of a weird blow to my ego to be making less than him when I feel like I'm the one who's made all the responsible, non-mooching decisions over the years... but eh, that's just my own stupid insecurity wrestling with the fact that I probably don't live up to my full potential when it comes to career and income. I'll get over it. This thread isn't the place for that nonsense.

So life is stable and boring again... but I'll share one fun detail from a couple weeks ago to make this update worth your time:

We sat down and had a discussion about how I needed more of a heads up in the future if he wasn't able to make rent on time, and I flat out told him that the way he handled it at the beginning of May felt sketchy to me. According to him, he'd told me several weeks ahead of time when I was drunk... considering how busy I was during those weeks and how I didn't have time in my schedule to drink heavily, I'm not sure when that would have been, but whatever. New ground rules set that any time we discuss something serious while drunk, we're having a follow up conversation sober to make sure we're both on the same page. That feels like common sense to me, not sure why I had to come out and specifically make it an official thing... but I've been sober for a few weeks anyways (unrelated reasons), so it hasn't been applicable yet.

It was a long, heated, come-to-Jesus conversation that covered several other topics, including the overall mooching, and I had to chuckle at one point in the height of the argument when he turned to me and said, "Look, if you think that I've ever been a mooch, well I don't agree and I'll move out right now. Rich Friend is buying a house and has said that I'm welcome to move in with him rent-free. I have an option to live for free, and I stay here because I like living with you, but if you think I'm a mooch then I don't feel welcome and I'm out of here."

If you think I'm a mooch, I'm not, and I'll go live with Rich Friend rent-free to prove it.

Irony so delicious you can practically taste it.

Anyways, argument settled down and he didn't move out - I can already hear some of you screaming, "WHY DIDN'T YOU KICK THE BUM OUT, YOU HAD YOUR CHANCE, YOUR PERFECT FUCKING SHOT AND ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS TAKE IT!!!"

Yeah, I know, I know, I'm a masochistic dumbass. Unfortunately, I don't have another renter lined up for my third bedroom yet (need to finish getting my second bathroom installed first) and I'm a greedy asshole who wants to keep the extra income rolling in, small as it is.

Like I said, the situation is stable and drama-free for now... But I'm sure I'll be back with more stories eventually.

A good tenant is like a cash cow. Keep her well fed and mooing, and you'll be able to get the milk for, well, the opportunity cost of renting the room to someone else.

Sorry for the mangled analogy but I'm back from vacation and practically mainlining vodka. The worst part is that I still have to cruise over to my blog and try to write something pithy when I'm too drunk to type.

ETA: It looks like Jack really does have a "sales personality" and his current job could be an outstanding fit for him, which works out to continued profit for you... if you don't fuck it up.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2017, 08:16:41 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

Spiffsome

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #243 on: June 21, 2017, 09:35:19 PM »
Pencil, at some point you're going to have to stop calling Jack a mooch. If he's paying rent reliably to you, he's not mooching off you. If he pays his rent reliably and you keep calling him a mooch, either he's going to get pissed and leave, or he's going to stop paying rent.

Sure he's got a history of mooching when he can get away with it, but if you're not letting him get away with it, then he's not mooching any more.

Bicycle_B

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #244 on: June 26, 2017, 03:07:15 AM »
Pencil, at some point you're going to have to stop calling Jack a mooch. If he's paying rent reliably to you, he's not mooching off you. If he pays his rent reliably and you keep calling him a mooch, either he's going to get pissed and leave, or he's going to stop paying rent.

Sure he's got a history of mooching when he can get away with it, but if you're not letting him get away with it, then he's not mooching any more.

Once a moocher, always a source of entertainment.  That's this thread's motto, right?

MrsPete

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #245 on: June 28, 2017, 09:32:09 AM »
"Dude, I don't get why you worry about this stuff. Just do what I do and surround yourself with people who will take care of you when the time comes."
You've heard this before:  If you spend enough time with them, people will tell you the truth about themselves.  It's up to you to listen. 

SeaEhm

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #246 on: June 28, 2017, 11:59:33 AM »
I came in expecting to post that you should suck it up.

I am leaving with this, "MOVE OUT!"

You need to surround yourself with better people. 

My wife is a spendy pants x 1000 but she never asks me for money and expects nothing from me.  She expects nothing from others as well.  She will work hard to achieve what it is that she wants. 

Find a new roommate ... Maybe if you do not have a personal relationship then none of them, "we are bros" ideals will be there.  It will be more black and white with expectations