Author Topic: Roommate Rant  (Read 75027 times)

PencilThinStash

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Roommate Rant
« on: May 05, 2016, 01:11:14 PM »
I got laid off from my job in Atlanta a few months ago due to a restructuring within the company, and decided to move back to the Chicago suburbs where I grew up. Found a job making less than I was making before, but enjoy the work more and see a lot of potential for growth in the future. Overall, pretty happy about how things played out.

My biggest issue right now comes from my roommate, who I'll call Jack. We've been friends for a long time, but obviously haven't spent a ton of time together over the last 8 years that I've been living in other states. Every time I'd come to visit, I'd be in "vacation mode" and spend pretty freely from the money I'd saved for that particular trip.

Now, I know that I've gotten a lot more frugal and mustachian over the last few years. So I warned Jack that I'm not very spendypants in my everyday life and that, as a natural saver, living with me was not going to look the same as partying with me on a weekend trip. His response of "I only go out on special occasions now, like when you come into town. I actually prefer staying in and drinking on the couch" eliminated most of my reservations, as did his talking about a savings account and that he spends very little to live well.

What I didn't realize is that our definitions of "spend little but still live well" are DRASTICALLY different things. While mine comes from a place of enjoying the simple things and avoiding hedonic adaptation, apparently his means "mooch off of fucking everybody."

I thought it was a little weird when we first moved in and he wanted to plan meals and do the grocery shopping together - most of my former roommates have, like me, been pretty independent and we each had our own stuff in the fridge. Not a big deal, though, I'm open to the idea. Hell, I'll even throw it all on whichever credit card I'm trying to travel hack right now to reach my minimum faster, and you can just pay me back for your half in cash.

Mistake number one.

Almost every time we've done this, it's been a multiple day struggle to get cash back from the guy. Additionally, I should mention that while I'm pretty average sized, Jack's got at least 60-70 pounds on me, and it's easy to tell why when you look at how much food each of us eats. I spend $50 on groceries, fight to get $25 out of him, and then only end up eating $15 worth of food.

If that was it, I'd suck it up and move on, but it seems like there's always some little thing. We drive somewhere in his car, he asks me for gas money. We drive somewhere in mine and I ask? "Come on, man, it's not like my SUV, your Civic gets such good gas mileage that it doesn't even matter that much."

Last week he got upset with me, because I haven't bought a grill yet for the apartment. Excuse me? I didn't realize that was an expectation. "Well, you said a few weeks ago that you really wanted one, and I think it would make our food bill a lot cheaper based on the foods we'd buy if we had one."

First off, NO, what I said is that I've never been a great griller (because I've never owned one), but I'm interested in getting better, and maybe I'll buy one once my savings rate is at an acceptable level again (Like I said earlier, I'm making a little less than I'm used to, so I want to keep expenses down).

Secondly, how would our food bill be cheaper? We're already buying the same foods that Jack says he wants to grill. "Ya, but I'm getting tired of eating foods that are prepared on the stove or in the oven when I know they would taste better on the grill." THEN BUY IT YOURSELF. I don't have any complaints about the food, so buying a grill is approximately item #487 on my list of priorities in life.

The real clincher was a few nights ago. We're having a discussion about budgets and why I didn't want to pull money from my retirement accounts to pay for other stupid things he wants me to buy, when he says:

"Dude, I don't get why you worry about this stuff. Just do what I do and surround yourself with people who will take care of you when the time comes."

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

I started thinking about some of the other people Jack has in his life, and it's a little strange how many of them are either well-off or look like they're headed that direction. Including another friend whose stepdad is supposedly about to close some business deal that will earn him "millions every week." In the month I've lived with Jack, he's already drunkenly convinced this friend to buy him two separate fridge-loads of groceries. Now, stepdad has told Jack that, because of the friendship Jack has with his stepson, he considers Jack to be part of the family. Since stepdad "always takes care of family," Jack's expecting to get some $100k check from him within the next year, and then be completely taken care of for the rest of his life.

Banking his entire future on the generosity of other people, while at 27 years old he splits his time between bartending once a week and working part-time at a movie theater.

I suddenly can't stop thinking that that's how he views me: Nothing but a walking dollar sign that he can get to cover his expenses someday. Should have listened to Financial Samurai and gone with that whole "Stealth Wealth" thing, I guess.

Sorry for the length, it's been eating at me for a couple days now and just had to get that off my chest.

Warlord1986

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2016, 01:15:00 PM »
You need to find a new place to live, bro. Let someone else take care of this moocher.

Elderwood17

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2016, 01:19:21 PM »
You need to find a new place to live, bro. Let someone else take care of this moocher.

Plus 1

zephyr911

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2016, 01:19:30 PM »
Holy shit. Holy fucking shit, dude. What The Fuck!!!

stoaX

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2016, 01:22:44 PM »
Wow.  This just provides more evidence of the virtues of stealth wealth.

JAYSLOL

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2016, 01:24:37 PM »
Run.  Just run.  Unfortunately you ARE a walking dollar sign to this guy and I doubt there is a way to change that at this point.

CmFtns

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2016, 01:50:34 PM »
If you like the guy then:
-Stop buying food together
-be serious about splitting carpooling money or don't carpool
-pretend like your poor or lost all your savings somehow or something

If not then:
-Move


If he still likes you even when he thinks you have no money then he's not trying to mooch off you

« Last Edit: May 05, 2016, 01:52:38 PM by comfyfutons »

sheepstache

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2016, 02:08:56 PM »
Ha ha, thank you for writing that up, it was entertaining.

Man, trying to split groceries drove me nuts even when I had thrifty roommates. It was a lot easier to just learn how to cook for a singleton.

MgoSam

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2016, 02:21:10 PM »
First post-college roommate I had is an older guy (39 to my 24) and I kept wanting to try to cook meals together, he refused except saying that if there is something delicious and if I were willing to cook extra he would reiumburse me for the groceries. We never ended up doing so, but I do like that he was insistent on keeping things separate.

Now that I have a tenant, I'm looking forward to doing the same. It helps that my tenant was his, "What I bring in, I use, what you bring in you use," line in the sand belief. The only things we share in the kitchen are cooking utensils and dishware.

mm1970

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2016, 02:50:45 PM »
Holy shit. Holy fucking shit, dude. What The Fuck!!!
+1000

Miss Piggy

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2016, 02:58:26 PM »
Man, maybe you should forget about the credit card points and just pay cash (for your part only) at the grocery store, while he does the same, since you're shopping together.

AZDude

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2016, 03:11:03 PM »
Tell the mooching asshat that he needs to pay cash upfront for everything from now on. Groceries? Cash up front. Car ride? Cash up front.

He is taking advantage of your friendship, and from that last quote he knows *exactly* what he is doing. If appropriate, an ass-kicking might be necessary as well.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2016, 04:00:24 PM »
I'd be leaving or kicking him out as soon as it's legally possible. He's a total asshat. Every single instance he's got a reason/excuse for, it's to his complete advantage. He is showing you very clearly that he doesn't give a single fuck about your relationship - only about himself. He's actually bragged to you about how he takes advantage of people that he is friends with. That is really screwed up.

But in the meantime, stand up for yourself man! If you don't want to be taken advantage of any more, then tell him NO and don't listen to his excuses.


I don't have to give you money cause you get better mileage, but you should give me gas money cause my car uses more gas!
No, that's not fair if you don't do the same when I drive. You drive yourself and I'll drive myself places from now on.

You pay for my groceries and I'll pay you back next week when I get my paycheck.
No. We're only buying for ourselves now. You need to do your own grocery shopping and pay for what you eat. And you had better not eat any of my food unless you come find me and pay me before eating it.

I can't afford X, can't you just pay for it and I'll pay you back?
No. I don't want to.

Honestly, I'd tell him exactly what you're feeling if you think there is any chance at all that he might actually listen to what you're saying - that he's told you that he only surrounds himself with friends he can mooch off of and take advantage of and you are seriously upset with him for seeing you and your friendship as only some sort of bank account he can hit up whenever. He's not been a very good friend at all, it's immature and irresponsible and it has damaged your friendship so severely that you don't think you want to be room mates any more and are not even sure if you want to remain friends, so at whatever date you can figure out, he needs to move out (or you move out if you're both on the lease - check in with your rental agreement to figure out how to get out of there without any issues).

Obviously do your research before having this discussion. Or just wait it out and tell him before you're leaving that is what you're doing and he's on his own and can either move out and find someplace to crash if he can't afford it on his own, or figure out some other sucker to move in and let him parasite off of.


And then lose this guy's number and block his ass unless he seriously changes and makes amends to you. Life is too short to put up with this type of BS.

Cassie

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2016, 04:59:31 PM »
Total user. All good advice from FG.

Dezrah

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2016, 11:46:39 AM »
Do you ever watch nature shows? 

Sometimes there will be a species of cuttlefish or something, the tiny dull-colored female will literally hang out under the protection of a big strong male.  This male is biggest, baddest guy on the block, good specimen to mate with.  Then another tiny dull-colored fish comes along.  Score!  Now the male has a modest harem going on.  Except that's not a female, it's a stealthy male that quickly and quietly mates with the real female even while the big male stands guard.  The female's happy; she gets to hedge her bets between having strong, dominant offspring and clever, stealthy offspring.  Ultimately though it's the big male that has to do all the heavy lifting in protecting everyone.

Or another one was a species of snakes.  They would hibernate in groups in the winter.  When Spring came they would all wake up and frantically mate before going out into the world for next few seasons.  As cold-blooded creatures, the males would always make sure they woke up first so they had enough time to sun and warm themselves up.  The earlier they woke up, the more likely they'd be ready to be first to reach the waking females.  When a female woke up she had a distinctive signature (scent, or sound, or pheromones, or something) and all the males would furiously swarm her.  Sometimes though, these were actually faking males who had saved their energy sleeping longer and now the rubbing from the other males had warmed them up and they too were ready for the females.

It's almost like your roommate is like these other moochers in nature.  It actually seems to take a decent amount of cleverness and specialized skills to successfully pull off his scams.  I'm not excusing nor admiring his behavior but I can help but think people like him are always going to be around, it's simply how we've evolved as a species.

Frankly I hope you continue to live with him because these anecdotes are very entertaining.  ;)

onehair

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2016, 12:25:03 PM »
Can't add anything more than what the others have said here but DTMFA (Gratuitous Dan Savage reference).  Can you afford to move out and be on your own and leave him?

Sibley

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2016, 01:21:41 PM »
Hey OP, welcome to Chicago! Is your roomie Catholic? Let's introduce him to my roommate. I'll be happy if someone else dealt with her not cleaning. :)

Seriously though, move out. And he really isn't your friend.

CynthiaL

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2016, 07:48:06 AM »
Based on my experience with roommates, I'd say move out as quickly as possible.  I have a roommate similar to yours I've tried to 'train' to be less of a mooch--has not worked and now on top of the mooching she's started to steal little things from me hoping I wouldn't notice (food, facial cleanser, shavers, etc).  A week ago she begged for money so she'd have enough gas to get to her job the next day.  I caved and gave her $20 and told her I needed the change back, and she spent the full $20 buying cigarettes on top of the gas.  It's a tiny last straw, but there were a lot of straws before this.  I'm telling her at the end of this month that she needs to be out by the end of June...

BlueHouse

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2016, 08:01:47 AM »
First inclination is to give more chances, separate yourself from groceries and live singly in this arrangement, but reading all the other posts make me realize that I am a sucker and an enabler of this type of behavior. Thanks for sharing. The advice you've received will help me too.

Goldielocks

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2016, 09:27:20 PM »
Whoa,  reading that,   I just got an earworm...


"I'm just a gigolo
everywhere I go
people know the part
I'm playing"....

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/david-lee-roth/just-a-gigolo.html
David Lee Roth..


Not exactly the same,  but how long until he wears out his current friends, and then starts looking for new "friends"..? hmmm....


ETA:  A new friend is having justified financial difficulties, (sudden loss of home and jobs) but instead of pulling herself up, or taking me up on my offer to help her help herself, thinks that "God will provide" and you don't have to do anything proactive yourself, other than pray.   

When she asked me for food, asking for items like frozen chicken strips (the good ones) and other pricey prepacked items and treats for her toddler...(who does NOT need them)...saying that she was worried about not having anything to eat (family of 5)....   well,  maybe I am miserely, but I went home, and split out in half my bulk rice, bulk potatoes, bulk sweet potatoes, onions, added a couple lbs of on sale bought ground meat, peanut butter jar, all my remaining oats, and generous amount of flour and cooking oil and some spices.. bulk apples... then added an extra cabbage and carrots, a jar of home made jam, for variety, and drove back to give it to her right away.

End of her requests for food from me, anyways..   I know she has asked others in the month(s) since, but never me again.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 09:40:23 PM by goldielocks »

Warlord1986

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2016, 08:12:42 AM »

ETA:  A new friend is having justified financial difficulties, (sudden loss of home and jobs) but instead of pulling herself up, or taking me up on my offer to help her help herself, thinks that "God will provide" and you don't have to do anything proactive yourself, other than pray.   

When she asked me for food, asking for items like frozen chicken strips (the good ones) and other pricey prepacked items and treats for her toddler...(who does NOT need them)...saying that she was worried about not having anything to eat (family of 5)....   well,  maybe I am miserely, but I went home, and split out in half my bulk rice, bulk potatoes, bulk sweet potatoes, onions, added a couple lbs of on sale bought ground meat, peanut butter jar, all my remaining oats, and generous amount of flour and cooking oil and some spices.. bulk apples... then added an extra cabbage and carrots, a jar of home made jam, for variety, and drove back to give it to her right away.

End of her requests for food from me, anyways..   I know she has asked others in the month(s) since, but never me again.

Good for you for giving her real food.

You should tell her that God is not her personal genie. There's even a part in the Bible praising a woman who works and provides for her family. It's pretty obvious that we're supposed to put effort into solving our problems.

Mr. Green

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #21 on: May 11, 2016, 03:09:03 PM »
You should definitely move out. The guy is going to be a constant drag, constant negativity. It might feel "little" at first but you'll be surprised how, over time, it will turn into the feeling of wearing a ball and chain. Plus then if he gets pissy about something you have to live with the guy. You can't escape it. I'd bail in a blue heartbeat. Life is too short for that stuff.

SwordGuy

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2016, 06:20:47 PM »
You should definitely move out. The guy is going to be a constant drag, constant negativity. It might feel "little" at first but you'll be surprised how, over time, it will turn into the feeling of wearing a ball and chain. Plus then if he gets pissy about something you have to live with the guy. You can't escape it. I'd bail in a blue heartbeat. Life is too short for that stuff.

Over time, you become more like the people you associate with.

The Money Monk

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2016, 10:13:27 PM »
I would just straight up hit him with the truth: " You're a mooch, man. Quit trying to get me to pay for everything for you."

No need to get mad at him or emotional, just be very blunt. Tell him he you don't like the situation and you aren't going to pay for anything for him again. And seriously mean it. If you go out to eat and he 'left his wallet" tough shit. If he is driving and he runs out of gas, walk home. Once the expectation is there that that shit is over with, he is either going to understand that it's not going to work with you, or he will freak out. In that case just get the hell out of there.

Jschange

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2016, 11:04:01 PM »
This post has just assuaged my guilt over renting a one bed instead of sharing an apartment.

I think your friendship died when you moved in with crazy. I also think most people who make huge deals don't give 100k a year to their kid's lazy friend. But I eagerly await the outcome.

Kinda like how everyone knows I had nothing in common with my crazy ex roomie, but they are still asking for updates on her life a year later.

2Birds1Stone

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 04:09:00 AM »
As Iron Maiden once said........"run for the hills"

Fishindude

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2016, 05:09:50 AM »
You've got at least twenty good responses above.
Time to man up.

BlueHouse

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2016, 09:28:47 PM »
I would just straight up hit him with the truth: " You're a mooch, man. Quit trying to get me to pay for everything for you."

No need to get mad at him or emotional, just be very blunt. Tell him he you don't like the situation and you aren't going to pay for anything for him again. And seriously mean it. If you go out to eat and he 'left his wallet" tough shit. If he is driving and he runs out of gas, walk home. Once the expectation is there that that shit is over with, he is either going to understand that it's not going to work with you, or he will freak out. In that case just get the hell out of there.
Man, even reading your post, I can tell you are the type that can pull this off and still remain friends. Me?  I would try to say it and then it would be so awkward and emotional that I'd end up paying the guy just to stay friendly with me!  Great skill to have and I envy those who have it. I wonder if it's the emotion part. If I can leave that at the door, maybe I could get better at these conversations.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2016, 11:05:09 PM »
I would just straight up hit him with the truth: " You're a mooch, man. Quit trying to get me to pay for everything for you."

No need to get mad at him or emotional, just be very blunt. Tell him he you don't like the situation and you aren't going to pay for anything for him again. And seriously mean it. If you go out to eat and he 'left his wallet" tough shit. If he is driving and he runs out of gas, walk home. Once the expectation is there that that shit is over with, he is either going to understand that it's not going to work with you, or he will freak out. In that case just get the hell out of there.
Man, even reading your post, I can tell you are the type that can pull this off and still remain friends. Me?  I would try to say it and then it would be so awkward and emotional that I'd end up paying the guy just to stay friendly with me!  Great skill to have and I envy those who have it. I wonder if it's the emotion part. If I can leave that at the door, maybe I could get better at these conversations.

It's not the emotion part that's killing you, though. It's the fornication donation. Forget the money and incidentals, the major thing you should not be giving is ONE SINGLE FUCK about whether the moocher in your life experiences the consequences of his own bad decision making, or what his opinion of you might be. (ETA: I'm using the word "he" as a generic here; many moochers are female. I'm also discussing just one moocher, but if you have a swarm of them, my advice applies equally to all of them.)

Seriously. Cut it with the fuck-giving. You've allowed yourself to care more about his situation than he does, and that's messed up because it's sucking you into an sharknado of codependent bullshit. You're also allowing him to rewrite your boundaries and take shameless advantage of you. That's also crap. Worst of all, you've bought into the notion that this idiot's opinion matters somehow in the great scheme of things. Parasites are not people whose opinions matter. I mean, they do deserve the basic respect we give all human beings (as in, we don't load them into catapults and use them for skeet, and I don't use them to test the sharpness of my scythe), but you don't actually need to give them anything except a cordial "no".

If you were an utter asshole, you could abuse this guy without meaningful consequences. I get that you're not an asshole, and it's OK that you aren't, but that doesn't mean you have to be the blood supply to a 200-pound mosquito. It's not a binary problem. You can choose to be something else.

This guy has made it clear that he sees people like you as sources of nourishment, and now that he's gotten a few sucks in he's not going to want to let go of the titty. So expect a bit of a tantrum when you cut him off from using your resources. He might cry, or stomp off, or become pathetic, or act obnoxious. That's a survival instinct, to him: his source of sustenance is leaving, and his first reaction should be something that prevents it from escaping. Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

Being called on the mooching, and cut off, is not actually new to the moocher. Nor will it hurt his feelings. He already doesn't give a fuck about you or your well-being, except to the extent that you're able to provide for him. He knows he's a human tapeworm, and he knows people don't like it because at his age he's been shat out a few times before by people who have just plain had enough. But he's committed to parasitism as a life strategy and he believes that it's right and appropriate for him specifically. This means he's never going to stop until that belief changes. You don't have the power to change that belief for him. He'll just do what every deer tick does, and go dormant until another host passes by. He's done it before. He'll do it again, and not lose a wink of sleep over how you feel.

You are going to want to pry the mooch loose, because the longer he stays the more thoroughly he becomes attached, the harder it will be to cut him loose, and the more he will extract from you in the meantime. Also, the universe assumes that people go after and keep the things that they like. If you let it go on long enough, other people will assume you're socially or financially fused somehow, or that you enjoy supporting an entourage. The longer you let this guy treat you like a giant mammary gland, the more the universe is going to notice: "hey! This person's big goal in life is to be a nipple. Let's send him more opportunities to exercise that aspect of his character."
« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 11:09:49 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

electriceagle

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2016, 11:55:35 PM »
how many of them are either well-off or look like they're headed that direction. Including another friend whose stepdad is supposedly about to close some business deal that will earn him "millions every week." In the month I've lived with Jack, he's already drunkenly convinced this friend to buy him two separate fridge-loads of groceries. Now, stepdad has told Jack that, because of the friendship Jack has with his stepson, he considers Jack to be part of the family. Since stepdad "always takes care of family," Jack's expecting to get some $100k check from him within the next year, and then be completely taken care of for the rest of his life.

Jack is delusional. The Venn Diagram of people who make millions and people who give $100k to their kid's friend has negligible overlap.

Seppia

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2016, 12:30:03 AM »
Definitely move out now.
Meanwhile, nobody obliges you to deal with this shit so just start buying stuff for yourself only.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2016, 12:39:34 AM »
Cut it with the fuck-giving. You've allowed yourself to care more about his situation than he does ... allowing him to rewrite your boundaries and take shameless advantage....

...I get that you're not an asshole, and it's OK that you aren't, but that doesn't mean you have to be the blood supply to a 200-pound mosquito. It's not a binary problem....

...Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

Being called on the mooching, and cut off, is not actually new to the moocher. ... He's done it before. He'll do it again, and not lose a wink of sleep over how you feel. ...
[Emphasis added.]
Aside from being a thing of beauty (A+ scathing hilarity) this was SO IMPORTANT. More of us need to hear this. THANK YOU.

Primm

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2016, 01:59:19 AM »
... and that's messed up because it's sucking you into an sharknado of codependent bullshit.

Quoted for brilliance.

Nederstash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2016, 02:35:31 AM »
Cut it with the fuck-giving. You've allowed yourself to care more about his situation than he does ... allowing him to rewrite your boundaries and take shameless advantage....

...I get that you're not an asshole, and it's OK that you aren't, but that doesn't mean you have to be the blood supply to a 200-pound mosquito. It's not a binary problem....

...Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

Being called on the mooching, and cut off, is not actually new to the moocher. ... He's done it before. He'll do it again, and not lose a wink of sleep over how you feel. ...
[Emphasis added.]
Aside from being a thing of beauty (A+ scathing hilarity) this was SO IMPORTANT. More of us need to hear this. THANK YOU.

Grimly squeaked and heartily agreed!

sheepstache

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2016, 10:40:33 AM »

PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2016, 12:40:05 PM »
OP here - Thanks for the input, everyone. Highly entertaining with some great nuggets of wisdom thrown in (Looking at you in particular, GrimSqueaker).

Unfortunately, moving out isn't in the cards right now - I'm still in the process of building the emergency fund back up after those months of unemployment. On top of that, I like the apartment and it's all of 1.7 miles from work. Add in my hesitance to move my furniture down 3 flights of stairs again (Ok, that's purely my own laziness, but it's seriously a pain in the ass), and it's just not going to happen.

As for killing our friendship - If you remove the money aspect, we get along really well, and I do genuinely like Jack when he isn't mooching off me. I'm focusing on the negatives and my frustrations, not the good aspects of our friendship. This is the Wall of Shame and Comedy, after all.

Having said all that, I'm not going to let the guy walk all over me.

On Saturday, I was driving home from an event when Jack called me, asking if I wanted to go to the grocery store that afternoon. Perhaps it was a conversation that should have been done in person, but I've been avoiding it and saw my opening, so I said, "Look, man..." and laid it out. I tried to be nice about it, I didn't specifically call him out for being a mooch, but I was straightforward about the fact that I thought food-sharing was weird going in, that I gave it a shot but it wasn't working for me, and that I'd only be buying and cooking my own food from now on. He seemed confused and tried to argue about how well the system had been working, but I held firm.

So expect a bit of a tantrum when you cut him off from using your resources. He might cry, or stomp off, or become pathetic, or act obnoxious. That's a survival instinct, to him: his source of sustenance is leaving, and his first reaction should be something that prevents it from escaping. Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

Woah, GrimSqueaker is psychic!

Since that discussion, Jack has basically refused to look at me or communicate in more than grunts. I'm attempting to be cordial, and he's probably said a total of 10 monosyllabic words to me in the last 3 days. When I'm around, he does nothing but sit there silently and glare at the tv. Obviously playing a waiting game.

What he doesn't realize is that once I draw a line, nobody (with the sole exception of my mom) can out-stubborn me. Good luck trying, kid.

Personally, I'm finding it really convenient to only cook and do the dishes for one person again. I didn't realize just how much of the work I was carrying until I stopped doing it, and I'm loving the freedom.

From the garbage littered around the kitchen and living room, though, it's obvious that Jack has yet to eat anything but frozen pizza, ice cream, and fast food since I stopped cooking for him.

No, wait, wait, wait... that was too harsh. He DID cook a box of Kraft mac & cheese for himself last night. Which he then finished off in a single sitting.

No wonder he's spent the last few weeks bragging to people about how healthy we've been eating. "You won't believe it, we're even having salads most nights!" I wasn't aware that rinsing and tearing lettuce was a complicated task, but apparently it's outside of his skill set?

Will keep you all updated if anything interesting develops from here.

andy85

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2016, 12:55:06 PM »
You are my gd hero grimsqueaker. That was a thing of beauty.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2016, 01:07:42 PM »

On Saturday, I was driving home from an event when Jack called me, asking if I wanted to go to the grocery store that afternoon. Perhaps it was a conversation that should have been done in person, but I've been avoiding it and saw my opening, so I said, "Look, man..." and laid it out. I tried to be nice about it, I didn't specifically call him out for being a mooch, but I was straightforward about the fact that I thought food-sharing was weird going in, that I gave it a shot but it wasn't working for me, and that I'd only be buying and cooking my own food from now on. He seemed confused and tried to argue about how well the system had been working, but I held firm.

So expect a bit of a tantrum when you cut him off from using your resources. He might cry, or stomp off, or become pathetic, or act obnoxious. That's a survival instinct, to him: his source of sustenance is leaving, and his first reaction should be something that prevents it from escaping. Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

Woah, GrimSqueaker is psychic!

Since that discussion, Jack has basically refused to look at me or communicate in more than grunts. I'm attempting to be cordial, and he's probably said a total of 10 monosyllabic words to me in the last 3 days. When I'm around, he does nothing but sit there silently and glare at the tv. Obviously playing a waiting game.

What he doesn't realize is that once I draw a line, nobody (with the sole exception of my mom) can out-stubborn me. Good luck trying, kid.

<snip>

Will keep you all updated if anything interesting develops from here.

(... in my best Antonio Banderas Puss-In-Boots voice)

Congratulations, my friend. You have escaped the sharknado of codependent bullshit because of your gigantic brass balls, your determination to withhold fucks from the unworthy, and your outstanding communication skills.

Your roommate will either come around as soon as he realizes his rent will be late, or else he will bail on the lease. Either way his mooching ways will no longer be your problem. Enjoy your newfound freedom. Pax vobiscum.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2016, 04:27:35 PM »
^^^ OMG, major props to GrimSqueaker for the awesome advice and to the OP for how smoothly he's handling the situation.  I am loving this latest development!

JAYSLOL

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2016, 06:28:43 PM »
^^^ OMG, major props to GrimSqueaker for the awesome advice and to the OP for how smoothly he's handling the situation.  I am loving this latest development!

+1

Kitsune

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 07:31:56 AM »
Seriously. Cut it with the fuck-giving. You've allowed yourself to care more about his situation than he does, and that's messed up because it's sucking you into an sharknado of codependent bullshit. You're also allowing him to rewrite your boundaries and take shameless advantage of you. That's also crap. Worst of all, you've bought into the notion that this idiot's opinion matters somehow in the great scheme of things. Parasites are not people whose opinions matter. I mean, they do deserve the basic respect we give all human beings (as in, we don't load them into catapults and use them for skeet, and I don't use them to test the sharpness of my scythe), but you don't actually need to give them anything except a cordial "no".

This guy has made it clear that he sees people like you as sources of nourishment, and now that he's gotten a few sucks in he's not going to want to let go of the titty. So expect a bit of a tantrum when you cut him off from using your resources. He might cry, or stomp off, or become pathetic, or act obnoxious. That's a survival instinct, to him: his source of sustenance is leaving, and his first reaction should be something that prevents it from escaping. Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

THIS. All of this. Applies to so much, and so many situations.

When you stop giving a fuck, you somehow get more respect, universally. (Well unless you're a woman. Then there's a good 40% chance you'll get called a bitch. Don't give a fuck about THAT, either - what people mean by bitch is 'refuses to let me walk all over her' and, like, YUP, I'm owning that.)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2016, 08:02:13 AM »
Seriously. Cut it with the fuck-giving. You've allowed yourself to care more about his situation than he does, and that's messed up because it's sucking you into an sharknado of codependent bullshit. You're also allowing him to rewrite your boundaries and take shameless advantage of you. That's also crap. Worst of all, you've bought into the notion that this idiot's opinion matters somehow in the great scheme of things. Parasites are not people whose opinions matter. I mean, they do deserve the basic respect we give all human beings (as in, we don't load them into catapults and use them for skeet, and I don't use them to test the sharpness of my scythe), but you don't actually need to give them anything except a cordial "no".

This guy has made it clear that he sees people like you as sources of nourishment, and now that he's gotten a few sucks in he's not going to want to let go of the titty. So expect a bit of a tantrum when you cut him off from using your resources. He might cry, or stomp off, or become pathetic, or act obnoxious. That's a survival instinct, to him: his source of sustenance is leaving, and his first reaction should be something that prevents it from escaping. Just recognize the tantrum for what it is: a test to see whether you're stupid enough to let him latch on again. This is not a test you want to pass.

THIS. All of this. Applies to so much, and so many situations.

When you stop giving a fuck, you somehow get more respect, universally. (Well unless you're a woman. Then there's a good 40% chance you'll get called a bitch. Don't give a fuck about THAT, either - what people mean by bitch is 'refuses to let me walk all over her' and, like, YUP, I'm owning that.)

The "bitch" comments are part of the standard punishment/tantrum that people throw when they realize you're not going to let them redraw your boundaries. It is indeed gender specific, but there's a male equivalent. The words people use when they're trying to control a man are "asshole" and "bastard". Women don't get called those things very often no matter what they do.

It's only after the tantrum behavior dies down that the respect occurs. That's if the tantrum-thrower sticks around. Often they don't, which is an equally acceptable situation since the average level of respect you get from the people around you is higher now that the tantrum-thrower isn't around to mess up the curve.

Digital Dogma

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2016, 09:55:43 AM »
I've dodged this bullet and seen friends go through the same thing as OP, glad to see hes drawing a line in the sand and giving his roomate notice that their friendship does not equal a free ride. Its soul crushing to deal with a mooching narcissistic manipulator every time you come home, wondering if you'll have to deal with their shit on the way into your room, and listening to the double standards they don't feel like following but call you out on at the slightest sign of non-compliance.

Dealing with a few days/weeks of unpleasant social interactions as you lay down the law is so much better than months of needless stress and financial burden.

mm1970

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2016, 11:32:02 AM »
I just wanted to +1 for all the amazing GrimSqueaker quotes.

BlueHouse

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2016, 01:18:03 PM »

PencilThinStash

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2016, 11:15:56 AM »
Hopefully this will be the conclusion to my ridiculous saga...

After my last post, I decided that I was getting bored with Jack's pouting, and that I was going to call him out when I got home from work if it was still going on. He wasn't home, though, so I forgot about it and went on with my evening.

A couple hours later I got a string of texts from Jack that, summarized, say, "I don't know if you noticed that I've been closed off the last couple days, we've got some other problems and the dinner thing really pushed me over the edge, but I'm tired of being pissed at you."

Awesome. Let's talk when you get home, dude. Points for acting like functional adults!

I am cynical enough, though, that in the back of my mind I'm viewing this as a change of tactics in Jack's attempt to "get back on the nipple."

So we sit down and clear the air a little. There were some other issues beyond the mooching, several were my fault (I'm not the easiest asshole to live with, either), just typical crap that strangers usually clarify when they move in together that friends tend to forget about. Nothing huge. We get on the same page for those, and then comes the discussion about food.

Jack: Every time I've had roommates, we've done it this way. It's easier for everyone.
PencilThinStash: It's not easier, though. When I cook alone, I do big batches and eat off that for 5 or 6 days. In 2 weeks, I'll only have to cook 3 times. With both of us eating off it, I'm cooking 3-4 times a week while you watch tv. As much as I love cooking, that's too much.
Jack: I cook too!
PTS: I spend, minimum, 30 minutes chopping, frying, monitoring things in the oven... you come in and heat a can of green beans on the stove for 5 minutes as a side dish. Not the same thing.
Jack: Well, I work so much in the evenings, I'm barely even around, so we're really only talking 2 nights a week that we have to share meals. How about I only eat off what you cook for those nights that I'm home, and you can use it for dinners and your work lunches?

After a few more minutes of various arguments and rebuttals, he finally backed off. "Well, dude, agree to disagree. I still think it's easier for both of us, but I know how stubborn you are. I'm done trying to win this one."

VICTORY!

Yesterday I got home from work, and everything is totally friendly, completely back to normal. I asked what he did with his day. "Not too much. Worked out, ran over to see my parents, went grocery shopping, blah blah blah"

Ran over to see your parents before the grocery shopping? Hm...

His mom is just about the sweetest, kindest person I've ever met in my life. In my opinion, she also provides WAY too much economic outpatient care to all of her kids. She and I have discussed finances before, and she always seems amazed that I save for retirement and am completely independent of my parents. She's confided that she and her husband are nowhere near where they should be with their own retirement planning - "We've run the numbers, and if something doesn't change, we won't be able to quit working until we're 130." I'm praying that she was exaggerating.

Did Jack go over to his parents' house and talk about how big, bad PencilThinStash is being mean and selfish and refusing to share? Probably. I mean, I've been bitching about the mooch to my parents (My sweetheart mom thinks we just need to develop a "chore chart" for who does the cooking, cleaning, etc. My dad? "If we were talking about a wife, I'd say you're being an idiot. He's only a roommate, though. He can take care of himself."). Now I'm curious if his mom felt bad for her baby and offered to buy him groceries...

So I go into the kitchen a few minutes later to see what's in the fridge and cupboards.

Holy hell.

A monstrous package of chicken thighs. Pork chops. A dozen frozen pizzas. Two half-gallons of ice cream. Hotdog buns (no hotdogs, weirdly enough?). Fully half the fridge full of bottled water and Pepsi cans. A stack of those frozen microwaveable meals. A FUCKING TEN POUND HAM. The list goes on.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but... there's at least $100 worth of shit in there. If he paid for it, I'll give $1000 to every member of this forum.

I started to get a little mad, until I had a semi-zen moment and realized... this is who he is. This is what he does. Some things just ARE.

Birds fly. Fish swim. The Dude abides. Jack mooches.

GrimSqueaker called it - The parasite jumped to another food source once he realized I wasn't an option anymore. No longer my problem, I don't have to care.

Later, Jack turns to me and says "Hey, we're out of booze, want to run to the liquor store with me tomorrow and split a handle of whiskey?"

SHIT. Here we go again.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2016, 11:29:12 AM »
Hopefully this will be the conclusion to my ridiculous saga...

After my last post, I decided that I was getting bored with Jack's pouting, and that I was going to call him out when I got home from work if it was still going on. He wasn't home, though, so I forgot about it and went on with my evening.

A couple hours later I got a string of texts from Jack that, summarized, say, "I don't know if you noticed that I've been closed off the last couple days, we've got some other problems and the dinner thing really pushed me over the edge, but I'm tired of being pissed at you."

Awesome. Let's talk when you get home, dude. Points for acting like functional adults!

I am cynical enough, though, that in the back of my mind I'm viewing this as a change of tactics in Jack's attempt to "get back on the nipple."

So we sit down and clear the air a little. There were some other issues beyond the mooching, several were my fault (I'm not the easiest asshole to live with, either), just typical crap that strangers usually clarify when they move in together that friends tend to forget about. Nothing huge. We get on the same page for those, and then comes the discussion about food.

Jack: Every time I've had roommates, we've done it this way. It's easier for everyone.
PencilThinStash: It's not easier, though. When I cook alone, I do big batches and eat off that for 5 or 6 days. In 2 weeks, I'll only have to cook 3 times. With both of us eating off it, I'm cooking 3-4 times a week while you watch tv. As much as I love cooking, that's too much.
Jack: I cook too!
PTS: I spend, minimum, 30 minutes chopping, frying, monitoring things in the oven... you come in and heat a can of green beans on the stove for 5 minutes as a side dish. Not the same thing.
Jack: Well, I work so much in the evenings, I'm barely even around, so we're really only talking 2 nights a week that we have to share meals. How about I only eat off what you cook for those nights that I'm home, and you can use it for dinners and your work lunches?

After a few more minutes of various arguments and rebuttals, he finally backed off. "Well, dude, agree to disagree. I still think it's easier for both of us, but I know how stubborn you are. I'm done trying to win this one."

VICTORY!

Yesterday I got home from work, and everything is totally friendly, completely back to normal. I asked what he did with his day. "Not too much. Worked out, ran over to see my parents, went grocery shopping, blah blah blah"

Ran over to see your parents before the grocery shopping? Hm...

His mom is just about the sweetest, kindest person I've ever met in my life. In my opinion, she also provides WAY too much economic outpatient care to all of her kids. She and I have discussed finances before, and she always seems amazed that I save for retirement and am completely independent of my parents. She's confided that she and her husband are nowhere near where they should be with their own retirement planning - "We've run the numbers, and if something doesn't change, we won't be able to quit working until we're 130." I'm praying that she was exaggerating.

Did Jack go over to his parents' house and talk about how big, bad PencilThinStash is being mean and selfish and refusing to share? Probably. I mean, I've been bitching about the mooch to my parents (My sweetheart mom thinks we just need to develop a "chore chart" for who does the cooking, cleaning, etc. My dad? "If we were talking about a wife, I'd say you're being an idiot. He's only a roommate, though. He can take care of himself."). Now I'm curious if his mom felt bad for her baby and offered to buy him groceries...

So I go into the kitchen a few minutes later to see what's in the fridge and cupboards.

Holy hell.

A monstrous package of chicken thighs. Pork chops. A dozen frozen pizzas. Two half-gallons of ice cream. Hotdog buns (no hotdogs, weirdly enough?). Fully half the fridge full of bottled water and Pepsi cans. A stack of those frozen microwaveable meals. A FUCKING TEN POUND HAM. The list goes on.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but... there's at least $100 worth of shit in there. If he paid for it, I'll give $1000 to every member of this forum.

I started to get a little mad, until I had a semi-zen moment and realized... this is who he is. This is what he does. Some things just ARE.

Birds fly. Fish swim. The Dude abides. Jack mooches.

GrimSqueaker called it - The parasite jumped to another food source once he realized I wasn't an option anymore. No longer my problem, I don't have to care.

Later, Jack turns to me and says "Hey, we're out of booze, want to run to the liquor store with me tomorrow and split a handle of whiskey?"

SHIT. Here we go again.

Thanks for the update! 10/10 will read again.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2016, 12:06:05 PM »
PencilThinStache: Excellent. You've just proven that you can assert your alpha status and be forgiven. Continue to do this at all times and you will enjoy a good and happy life without having to actually kill the people who piss you off.

If your goal is to maintain your happy household, your next step is not actually going to be a renewal of your struggle against moocherdom. You're going to take advantage of the fact that you are now alpha. This means you do what the ancient kings did, and reward your loyal retainer for his gesture of submission. But you do not do it in a way that suggests that mooching will be rewarded. This guy wants to get somewhat wasted at your expense. Now that you know what he wants, you can control him.

Go to the liquor store when you're damn well good and ready-- not necessarily today. Purchase some of the libation that YOU like to consume, in a quantity that makes sense. This will be a different kind of optimization exercise than your usual Mustachian instincts would suggest. You're not trying to try to save money by buying in bulk. Today, you will optimize on the scale that produces a happy life for you in the long run. So, come home with a mickey, preferably something you like.

With this mickey, you begin by pouring yourself a generous drink, the better to toast your success. You may treat your newly compliant beta roommate to a shot or even a double, which you will pour for him. But maintain control of the booze, and consume every drop yourself. Do this in front of him until the entire thing is finished. In this way, you share a small portion of your bounty, and you acknowledge the continuation of a social bond between the two of you. But you do it in a way that allows you to maintain control, and like the lion who feasts first upon the freshly killed wildebeest, you share only what you wish to share.

Under no circumstances do you perform any of this suggested "splitting" activity. That implies some kind of equal division, and the alpha does not share equally. Not if he wants to stay alpha. Nor do you allow him to touch the bottle. It's your bottle and you're making it clear that you're going to finish the whole thing and satisfy your needs without taking responsibility for satisfying his. (Which is why you're not going to come home with a magnum, unless you're feeling really ambitious: THERE MUST BE NO LEFTOVERS.) The entire point is that you're going to treat yourself.

Kitsune

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2016, 12:14:20 PM »
PencilThinStache: Excellent. You've just proven that you can assert your alpha status and be forgiven. Continue to do this at all times and you will enjoy a good and happy life without having to actually kill the people who piss you off.

If your goal is to maintain your happy household, your next step is not actually going to be a renewal of your struggle against moocherdom. You're going to take advantage of the fact that you are now alpha. This means you do what the ancient kings did, and reward your loyal retainer for his gesture of submission. But you do not do it in a way that suggests that mooching will be rewarded. This guy wants to get somewhat wasted at your expense. Now that you know what he wants, you can control him.

Go to the liquor store when you're damn well good and ready-- not necessarily today. Purchase some of the libation that YOU like to consume, in a quantity that makes sense. This will be a different kind of optimization exercise than your usual Mustachian instincts would suggest. You're not trying to try to save money by buying in bulk. Today, you will optimize on the scale that produces a happy life for you in the long run. So, come home with a mickey, preferably something you like.

With this mickey, you begin by pouring yourself a generous drink, the better to toast your success. You may treat your newly compliant beta roommate to a shot or even a double, which you will pour for him. But maintain control of the booze, and consume every drop yourself. Do this in front of him until the entire thing is finished. In this way, you share a small portion of your bounty, and you acknowledge the continuation of a social bond between the two of you. But you do it in a way that allows you to maintain control, and like the lion who feasts first upon the freshly killed wildebeest, you share only what you wish to share.

Under no circumstances do you perform any of this suggested "splitting" activity. That implies some kind of equal division, and the alpha does not share equally. Not if he wants to stay alpha. Nor do you allow him to touch the bottle. It's your bottle and you're making it clear that you're going to finish the whole thing and satisfy your needs without taking responsibility for satisfying his. (Which is why you're not going to come home with a magnum, unless you're feeling really ambitious: THERE MUST BE NO LEFTOVERS.) The entire point is that you're going to treat yourself.

You've dealt with that type of asshole before, haven't you. Because this is PERFECTION.

vivophoenix

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Re: Roommate Rant
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2016, 12:28:56 PM »
PencilThinStache: Excellent. You've just proven that you can assert your alpha status and be forgiven. Continue to do this at all times and you will enjoy a good and happy life without having to actually kill the people who piss you off.

If your goal is to maintain your happy household, your next step is not actually going to be a renewal of your struggle against moocherdom. You're going to take advantage of the fact that you are now alpha. This means you do what the ancient kings did, and reward your loyal retainer for his gesture of submission. But you do not do it in a way that suggests that mooching will be rewarded. This guy wants to get somewhat wasted at your expense. Now that you know what he wants, you can control him.

Go to the liquor store when you're damn well good and ready-- not necessarily today. Purchase some of the libation that YOU like to consume, in a quantity that makes sense. This will be a different kind of optimization exercise than your usual Mustachian instincts would suggest. You're not trying to try to save money by buying in bulk. Today, you will optimize on the scale that produces a happy life for you in the long run. So, come home with a mickey, preferably something you like.

With this mickey, you begin by pouring yourself a generous drink, the better to toast your success. You may treat your newly compliant beta roommate to a shot or even a double, which you will pour for him. But maintain control of the booze, and consume every drop yourself. Do this in front of him until the entire thing is finished. In this way, you share a small portion of your bounty, and you acknowledge the continuation of a social bond between the two of you. But you do it in a way that allows you to maintain control, and like the lion who feasts first upon the freshly killed wildebeest, you share only what you wish to share.

Under no circumstances do you perform any of this suggested "splitting" activity. That implies some kind of equal division, and the alpha does not share equally. Not if he wants to stay alpha. Nor do you allow him to touch the bottle. It's your bottle and you're making it clear that you're going to finish the whole thing and satisfy your needs without taking responsibility for satisfying his. (Which is why you're not going to come home with a magnum, unless you're feeling really ambitious: THERE MUST BE NO LEFTOVERS.) The entire point is that you're going to treat yourself.

jesus!


and then you shall pee in a circle around the empty bottle, and drag your ass across the carpet!