Author Topic: Retirement advice lunch from work  (Read 13951 times)

ysette9

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Retirement advice lunch from work
« on: September 17, 2015, 04:19:07 PM »
Knowing that this was probably a scam, I nevertheless signed up for a free lunch and retirement advice seminar this week that was being advertised at work. I am always up for learning something new about personal finance and the perpetual college student inside me responds to free food no matter how much $ I have to my name, so I went.

Through my education on this site and others I can now more fully appreciate the scam that these financial advisers are perpetuating. Perhaps "scam" is too strong of a word; an "almost-scam" then. For half an hour several men in dark suits gave a disjointed, meandering, pointless presentation on retirement stuffs. There was almost no actual education, little advice, with lots of jargon and complicated case studies thrown in. The entire message I got was: "this retirement planning business is hopelessly complex and one wrong move can cost you millions. You'd better meet with us so you don't screw up."

On the upside, they served a great lunch!

MrMoneyMaxwell

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 05:28:10 PM »
I'm a closet glutton so I tend to just accept those invites regardless of the point. Man, I hope they give me free indian food next thursday.

pbkmaine

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 06:02:01 PM »
I can't go. I get either bored or angry and become disruptive.

MKinVA

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 07:11:20 PM »
So funny. My husband and I just went to one of these dinners. It was on social security but it was at a great restaurant close to our house. I too got bored since they weren't really giving me  any information I didn't already have. But great meal and I enjoyed talking with the couple beside us. All in all, a nice night out....for free.

Nickels Dimes Quarters

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 05:49:12 PM »
I love these dinners. I usually get invited to go with a family member. We get a great dinner, a funny "save 10% of your income lecture" and we tend to meet interesting people. All good.

NDQ

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 06:20:27 PM »
You have to go to troll them at the Q&A.
So, what if I saved 75% of my income ? When could I retire ?
 

mohawkbrah

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2015, 01:27:15 AM »
You have to go to troll them at the Q&A.
So, what if I saved 75% of my income ? When could I retire ?


"error! error! does not compute!"

FatCat

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2015, 06:01:59 PM »
You have to go to troll them at the Q&A.
So, what if I saved 75% of my income ? When could I retire ?

People laugh and they move on to the next question.

bagap

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2015, 04:41:22 PM »
Sounds lame, though I bet a lot of people still thought those guys were experts :(

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

Making Cookies

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2015, 08:05:38 AM »
Not sure it would be worth it if you were forever on their mailing list or calling list...

FatCat

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2015, 09:34:07 AM »
It was painful, it was also compounded by the fact that he was in his 60's and even though he claimed he didn't need to work (SWAMI), I suspected based on our conversation that he still needed some level of income to survive.

What is SWAMI?

slugline

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2015, 09:41:15 AM »
It was painful, it was also compounded by the fact that he was in his 60's and even though he claimed he didn't need to work (SWAMI), I suspected based on our conversation that he still needed some level of income to survive.

What is SWAMI?

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/04/30/weekend-edition-retire-in-your-mind-even-if-you-love-your-job/

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Scandium

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2015, 10:53:31 AM »
It was painful, it was also compounded by the fact that he was in his 60's and even though he claimed he didn't need to work (SWAMI), I suspected based on our conversation that he still needed some level of income to survive.

What is SWAMI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami

Quote
A swami (Sanskrit: स्वामी svāmī [sʋaːmiː]) is an ascetic or yogi who has been initiated into the religious monastic order founded by some religious teacher

At least that's what I thought the first time I saw it and looked it up

As for free lunches, I saw one near work on dealing with substance abuse. Thought about going but decided against it. Where can I find these retirement (ill)advise ones?

Alternatepriorities

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2015, 03:26:15 PM »
I find these sessions funny/ridiculous as well. The last one I went to in a free, private 1 on 1 session I asked the following questions:

Q) Have you ever known anyone who retired before 45?
A) No, I haven't. That would be extremely difficult and I couldn't image anyone being able to do that.

Q) I've done the math and think I can reach FI sometime between 38-45 (markets, life events, etc. dependent). Here's some numbers. What do you think?
A) Sounds like you have this figured out better what I could ever provide. Sounds like all you need to do is avoid risk and invest only in bonds / bond funds.

Q) Have you ever heard about the trinity studies?
A) No I haven't

It was painful, it was also compounded by the fact that he was in his 60's and even though he claimed he didn't need to work (SWAMI), I suspected based on our conversation that he still needed some level of income to survive.

+1

I had a similar conversation with a financial advisor when I was 25 before I discovered index funds. Through sheer luck the most senior advisor for the companies local office inherited my account when the junior advisor left. I convinced her that I was serious about retiring by 40 and she helped me set up a plan to do so. I suspect she kept my then tiny account just because she found me interesting. It won them my business until I started reading MMM and discovered index funds.

MgoSam

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2015, 12:13:33 PM »
It was painful, it was also compounded by the fact that he was in his 60's and even though he claimed he didn't need to work (SWAMI), I suspected based on our conversation that he still needed some level of income to survive.

What is SWAMI?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami

Quote
A swami (Sanskrit: स्वामी svāmī [sʋaːmiː]) is an ascetic or yogi who has been initiated into the religious monastic order founded by some religious teacher

At least that's what I thought the first time I saw it and looked it up

As for free lunches, I saw one near work on dealing with substance abuse. Thought about going but decided against it. Where can I find these retirement (ill)advise ones?

I googled "Swami financial term" and here is what I came up with

"Serotyping with Advanced Modifying Inventories"

maco

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2015, 12:21:10 PM »
Sounds lame, though I bet a lot of people still thought those guys were experts :(

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

If your mortgage interest rate is less than your expected rate of return on investing, then investing should work out better long term than prepaying the mortgage. I don't know why it says "big," though.

MgoSam

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2015, 12:32:32 PM »
Sounds lame, though I bet a lot of people still thought those guys were experts :(

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

If your mortgage interest rate is less than your expected rate of return on investing, then investing should work out better long term than prepaying the mortgage. I don't know why it says "big," though.

Even though my mortgage rate is way lower than what the market returns, I wouldn't carry a "big" balance over into my early retirement. I'll either pay it off, or have paid down enough that I could pay off the balance without much problem if I decided I needed to.

Dicey

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2015, 01:04:20 PM »

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

Funny, what you are attempting to ridicule is merely another path to wealth, just like MMM is. There actually ARE a lot of good reasons to carry mortgages, but the kill-all-the-debt-screamers are blind to the possibility that an affordable amount of leveraged debt is an awesome wealth building tool.

Killing all the debt is fine for some, especially those who can't manage their spending and stupidly rack up mounds of CC debt. If you're disciplined, (if you're here, you just might be) it's worth taking the time to study this topic thoroughly. There are plenty of people who are shockingly, FIRE, and still have mortgages. Heck, there's one awesome Mustachian who decided not to pay off his SL's before FIRE because his interest rates are so low, he's getting better returns on his investments. Why throw away money just so he can kill that fixed, low-interest debt? Very advanced thinking.

If a person wants to FIRE, it can make far more sense to stuff the 'stache before paying off the affordable fixed-rate mortgage. Compound interest is an amazing force. Killing a cheap mortgage at the cost of long-term savings is penny wise and pound foolish.


MgoSam

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2015, 01:27:33 PM »

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

Funny, what you are attempting to ridicule is merely another path to wealth, just like MMM is. There actually ARE a lot of good reasons to carry mortgages, but the kill-all-the-debt-screamers are blind to the possibility that an affordable amount of leveraged debt is an awesome wealth building tool.

Killing all the debt is fine for some, especially those who can't manage their spending and stupidly rack up mounds of CC debt. If you're disciplined, (if you're here, you just might be) it's worth taking the time to study this topic thoroughly. There are plenty of people who are shockingly, FIRE, and still have mortgages. Heck, there's one awesome Mustachian who decided not to pay off his SL's before FIRE because his interest rates are so low, he's getting better returns on his investments. Why throw away money just so he can kill that fixed, low-interest debt? Very advanced thinking.

If a person wants to FIRE, it can make far more sense to stuff the 'stache before paying off the affordable fixed-rate mortgage. Compound interest is an amazing force. Killing a cheap mortgage at the cost of long-term savings is penny wise and pound foolish.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying. I have a friend that paid off her student loans (undergrad and graduate) in 3 years by living frugally and paying it down as fast as she could. Now her next mission is to buy a house with cash. I've spoken to her about this and mentioned that it might be worthwhile to get a mortgage and invest it and she flat out said no.

I don't personally care what she does, it's her money, but she claimed that her sister "ran the numbers" and by paying in cash you save over a hundred thousand. When I was like, "Yeah, but did she run the numbers that would take into account opportunity cost of getting a mortgage and investing the money in the stock market?" She didn't have a response. Either way, I think people should do what they feel is comfortable. 

jinga nation

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2015, 02:29:05 PM »

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

Funny, what you are attempting to ridicule is merely another path to wealth, just like MMM is. There actually ARE a lot of good reasons to carry mortgages, but the kill-all-the-debt-screamers are blind to the possibility that an affordable amount of leveraged debt is an awesome wealth building tool.

Killing all the debt is fine for some, especially those who can't manage their spending and stupidly rack up mounds of CC debt. If you're disciplined, (if you're here, you just might be) it's worth taking the time to study this topic thoroughly. There are plenty of people who are shockingly, FIRE, and still have mortgages. Heck, there's one awesome Mustachian who decided not to pay off his SL's before FIRE because his interest rates are so low, he's getting better returns on his investments. Why throw away money just so he can kill that fixed, low-interest debt? Very advanced thinking.

If a person wants to FIRE, it can make far more sense to stuff the 'stache before paying off the affordable fixed-rate mortgage. Compound interest is an amazing force. Killing a cheap mortgage at the cost of long-term savings is penny wise and pound foolish.

Yeah, I can see what you're saying. I have a friend that paid off her student loans (undergrad and graduate) in 3 years by living frugally and paying it down as fast as she could. Now her next mission is to buy a house with cash. I've spoken to her about this and mentioned that it might be worthwhile to get a mortgage and invest it and she flat out said no.

I don't personally care what she does, it's her money, but she claimed that her sister "ran the numbers" and by paying in cash you save over a hundred thousand. When I was like, "Yeah, but did she run the numbers that would take into account opportunity cost of getting a mortgage and investing the money in the stock market?" She didn't have a response. Either way, I think people should do what they feel is comfortable.

+1 DianeC.

We have historically low mortgage rates. I'm keeping my mortgage (had a 4.375% 30-yr, that we just refinanced to a 3% 15-yr, saving 8 & 7/12 years of interest). My rental properties generate profits that also cover the mortgage, property tax and insurance on my home. That's making your money work for you. The remainder goes into my brokerage account into low-cost Vanguard funds (lazy portfolio), or into buying more rental properties.

The only time I tell people to pay off their mortgage is if they aren't investing the cash as inflation is eating it away. Many have become risk-averse either by having been burnt in the stock market, or if they constantly listen to financial media noise which just confuses the heck out of the common man person.

Abe

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2015, 03:08:46 PM »
I frequently get emails from people offering to help manage my (future) high salary for me. One of them even went so far to say that it was too complicated for medical professionals to handle. Not the most effective sales pitch...aren't they supposed to ingratiate themselves with you instead of insulting you?

FatCat

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2015, 03:21:15 PM »
I frequently get emails from people offering to help manage my (future) high salary for me. One of them even went so far to say that it was too complicated for medical professionals to handle. Not the most effective sales pitch...aren't they supposed to ingratiate themselves with you instead of insulting you?

I'm guessing they meant to imply medical professionals are too busy to deal with their own financial planning.

A lot of service jobs that charge high prices only exist because they've convinced everyone that it's too complicated to do it yourself.

zephyr911

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2015, 07:14:07 PM »
I frequently get emails from people offering to help manage my (future) high salary for me. One of them even went so far to say that it was too complicated for medical professionals to handle. Not the most effective sales pitch...aren't they supposed to ingratiate themselves with you instead of insulting you?

I'm guessing they meant to imply medical professionals are too busy to deal with their own financial planning.

A lot of service jobs that charge high prices only exist because they've convinced everyone that it's too complicated to do it yourself.
Funny you should mention that, a CW was just talking about how someone quoted him $175 to install TWO CEILING FANS. Holy shit, I can't believe even an electrician was going to charge that much.
I almost took the job myself, but I'm too gorram busy... even for half that price I could have driven with a few basic hand tools to BFE where he lives, put them both in, driven home, and still made $40/hr.

MgoSam

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2015, 07:28:23 PM »
I frequently get emails from people offering to help manage my (future) high salary for me. One of them even went so far to say that it was too complicated for medical professionals to handle. Not the most effective sales pitch...aren't they supposed to ingratiate themselves with you instead of insulting you?

I'm guessing they meant to imply medical professionals are too busy to deal with their own financial planning.

A lot of service jobs that charge high prices only exist because they've convinced everyone that it's too complicated to do it yourself.
Funny you should mention that, a CW was just talking about how someone quoted him $175 to install TWO CEILING FANS. Holy shit, I can't believe even an electrician was going to charge that much.
I almost took the job myself, but I'm too gorram busy... even for half that price I could have driven with a few basic hand tools to BFE where he lives, put them both in, driven home, and still made $40/hr.

How hard is it? I was going to ask a friend of mine that's an electrician to install one in my bedroom. The wiring is something I don't know how to do.

maco

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2015, 07:40:48 PM »
I frequently get emails from people offering to help manage my (future) high salary for me. One of them even went so far to say that it was too complicated for medical professionals to handle. Not the most effective sales pitch...aren't they supposed to ingratiate themselves with you instead of insulting you?

I'm guessing they meant to imply medical professionals are too busy to deal with their own financial planning.

A lot of service jobs that charge high prices only exist because they've convinced everyone that it's too complicated to do it yourself.
Funny you should mention that, a CW was just talking about how someone quoted him $175 to install TWO CEILING FANS. Holy shit, I can't believe even an electrician was going to charge that much.
I almost took the job myself, but I'm too gorram busy... even for half that price I could have driven with a few basic hand tools to BFE where he lives, put them both in, driven home, and still made $40/hr.

How hard is it? I was going to ask a friend of mine that's an electrician to install one in my bedroom. The wiring is something I don't know how to do.

We have on our shelf many of the books from the Time-Life Home Repair and Improvement series, found at the Friends of the Library used book sale. They include both Basic Wiring and Advanced Wiring.

From them, my husband has successfully done wiring in our house to his father (an actual licensed electrician) 's satisfaction. We haven't done a ceiling fan, but light switches, outlets, and replacing old cloth-wrapped cable with new stuff? Those have all happened.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2015, 07:44:47 PM by maco »

Jack

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2015, 08:01:12 PM »
I frequently get emails from people offering to help manage my (future) high salary for me. One of them even went so far to say that it was too complicated for medical professionals to handle. Not the most effective sales pitch...aren't they supposed to ingratiate themselves with you instead of insulting you?

I'm guessing they meant to imply medical professionals are too busy to deal with their own financial planning.

A lot of service jobs that charge high prices only exist because they've convinced everyone that it's too complicated to do it yourself.
Funny you should mention that, a CW was just talking about how someone quoted him $175 to install TWO CEILING FANS. Holy shit, I can't believe even an electrician was going to charge that much.
I almost took the job myself, but I'm too gorram busy... even for half that price I could have driven with a few basic hand tools to BFE where he lives, put them both in, driven home, and still made $40/hr.

I dunno, last time I installed a ceiling fan it was a pain in the ass because I had to install a fan-rated ceiling box (which involved crawling around in the attic). If I had to do that for somebody else I'd want them to pay me $175 for it too!

Reynold

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2015, 03:13:42 PM »
Funny you should mention that, a CW was just talking about how someone quoted him $175 to install TWO CEILING FANS. Holy shit, I can't believe even an electrician was going to charge that much.
I almost took the job myself, but I'm too gorram busy... even for half that price I could have driven with a few basic hand tools to BFE where he lives, put them both in, driven home, and still made $40/hr.

I dunno, last time I installed a ceiling fan it was a pain in the ass because I had to install a fan-rated ceiling box (which involved crawling around in the attic). If I had to do that for somebody else I'd want them to pay me $175 for it too!

I definitely recommend a fan-rated ceiling box, we had a chandelier drop 2 stories into our entryway when the plastic box it was mounted on spontaneously broke (nobody was home to be injured, thankfully, it was a small, cheap one but still heavy). 

By the way, the lowest quote I got for (1) mounting a replacement, (1) fixing a 2 inch tear in the sheet rock covering, and (3) painting about 1 square foot was $600, and involved two different people, who were going to have to coordinate ladder use.  Fortunately I had a ridiculously long ladder from when we were in a house rather than a townhouse, so I did it myself, because I was so annoyed.  I *wish* I could find someone in my area (northern New Jersey) that would put 2 ceiling fans in for $175, not that I need that specifically but I'd use them for other things.   

There are nice things about living here, but it is definitely not my ultimate retirement destination if I want to stretch my money.  I've never seen any area where people hire other people so much to do things, and my wife commented on how big the sections of pre-prepared food are at the grocery store.  I think everyone is in a 2-income family with long work hours. 

auntie_betty

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2015, 03:40:00 PM »


Quote
I definitely recommend a fan-rated ceiling box, we had a chandelier drop 2 stories into our entryway when the plastic box it was mounted on spontaneously broke (nobody was home to be injured, thankfully, it was a small, cheap one but still heavy). 


Lots of dangers with chandeliers.............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBexwZ7y-ZY

joleran

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2015, 09:47:30 AM »
Funny you should mention that, a CW was just talking about how someone quoted him $175 to install TWO CEILING FANS. Holy shit, I can't believe even an electrician was going to charge that much.
I almost took the job myself, but I'm too gorram busy... even for half that price I could have driven with a few basic hand tools to BFE where he lives, put them both in, driven home, and still made $40/hr.

That's dirt cheap unless there's already a junction box there rated for a fan, then it's pretty reasonable once you factor in travel, insurance, etc. for an independent contractor.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2015, 09:51:07 AM »
The annuity guys are worth at least one free lunch a quarter...

boarder42

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2015, 12:01:54 PM »
Sounds lame, though I bet a lot of people still thought those guys were experts :(

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

those some people somewhere that benefit from carrying a mortgage in retirement is95% of the FIRE crowd.  at today's rates you should always have a mortgage.  plus its a HUGE inflation hedge and leads to a safer FIRE historically. you really should look into it

I'm a red panda

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2015, 12:10:42 PM »
As part of my premarital counseling, we had to take a financial advisement session (that was offered "free of charge" by a parishioner at the church. Who then nicely asked for you to refer 5 friends, and emailed for years...)

My favorite part was when he asked us about our aspirations, including dream cars- so he could show us how to budget for such things.  My husband selected a Porsche Boxster, I said a Prius.  He said he couldn't find figures on the Prius, so he estimated it as $65k.  I zoned out there. Google existed. You can't find MSRP? 

Mostly he somehow conned the church into requiring anyone who want to get married to get his pitch for services.


We often have financial lunch and learns at work; but we have to bring a sack lunch. So I never go. It would be totally worth it for a free lunch.

TexasStash

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2015, 12:14:44 PM »

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

Funny, what you are attempting to ridicule is merely another path to wealth, just like MMM is. There actually ARE a lot of good reasons to carry mortgages, but the kill-all-the-debt-screamers are blind to the possibility that an affordable amount of leveraged debt is an awesome wealth building tool.

Killing all the debt is fine for some, especially those who can't manage their spending and stupidly rack up mounds of CC debt. If you're disciplined, (if you're here, you just might be) it's worth taking the time to study this topic thoroughly. There are plenty of people who are shockingly, FIRE, and still have mortgages. Heck, there's one awesome Mustachian who decided not to pay off his SL's before FIRE because his interest rates are so low, he's getting better returns on his investments. Why throw away money just so he can kill that fixed, low-interest debt? Very advanced thinking.

If a person wants to FIRE, it can make far more sense to stuff the 'stache before paying off the affordable fixed-rate mortgage. Compound interest is an amazing force. Killing a cheap mortgage at the cost of long-term savings is penny wise and pound foolish.

You badly need to go back and re-read the previous poster's comments. They were ridiculing the fact that having a big mortgage was considered an essential tip for successful retirement planning. While it may have benefits for some, it is not essential in any way for successful retirement.

dubbin(coz I'm stubborn)

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2015, 04:37:04 PM »

Reminds me of something I came across on the internet this weekend...

It was about the 3 essential tips to "successful" retirement planning and the third one was...wait for it...
 
Quote
# 3. Carrying a big, long mortgage. Conventional wisdom says you should pay off your mortgage as soon as possible but conventional wisdom is wrong! I was shocked to learn that a mortgage can actually help you create wealth in retirement. Discover how your mortgage, when handled properly, can actually help you enjoy a safer retirement.

It was referring to the retirement seminar cited below.  And okay, I'm sure for SOME people in SOME very specific situations, carrying a huge mortgage forever MAY yield some benefit.  But dispensing this as general advice and one of the essential 3 tips to successful retirement is shady and disingenuous, at best.

http://www.edelmanfinancial.com/seminars/preparing-for-retirement

Funny, what you are attempting to ridicule is merely another path to wealth, just like MMM is. There actually ARE a lot of good reasons to carry mortgages, but the kill-all-the-debt-screamers are blind to the possibility that an affordable amount of leveraged debt is an awesome wealth building tool.

Killing all the debt is fine for some, especially those who can't manage their spending and stupidly rack up mounds of CC debt. If you're disciplined, (if you're here, you just might be) it's worth taking the time to study this topic thoroughly. There are plenty of people who are shockingly, FIRE, and still have mortgages. Heck, there's one awesome Mustachian who decided not to pay off his SL's before FIRE because his interest rates are so low, he's getting better returns on his investments. Why throw away money just so he can kill that fixed, low-interest debt? Very advanced thinking.

If a person wants to FIRE, it can make far more sense to stuff the 'stache before paying off the affordable fixed-rate mortgage. Compound interest is an amazing force. Killing a cheap mortgage at the cost of long-term savings is penny wise and pound foolish.

You badly need to go back and re-read the previous poster's comments. They were ridiculing the fact that having a big mortgage was considered an essential tip for successful retirement planning. While it may have benefits for some, it is not essential in any way for successful retirement.

Agreed there should be a proviso if you are prepared to accepts the risks involved. It is doubtful that the mortgage/interest rate will stay that at "lowish" level. I am risk adverse so I would not be following that advise to carry a "large" mortgage when I retire.

What you are talking about here is leveraging it multiplies your gains in time of boom since you using other peoples money to increase your wealth but it becomes woeful  when it goes the other way ie your returns can no longer service the loan.

Tjat

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2015, 06:53:42 PM »
Agreed there should be a proviso if you are prepared to accepts the risks involved. It is doubtful that the mortgage/interest rate will stay that at "lowish" level. I am risk adverse so I would not be following that advise to carry a "large" mortgage when I retire.

What you are talking about here is leveraging it multiplies your gains in time of boom since you using other peoples money to increase your wealth but it becomes woeful  when it goes the other way ie your returns can no longer service the loan.

You may not live in the US, but most mortgages (at least the ones recommended to keep in retirement) are all fixed interest rates. Even if mortgage rates jump to 15%, the contract I signed with my bank cannot raise my raise from the 3.875% it currently sits. A prior poster is right - not only is a mortgage (right now) at a very low rate that it can make sense to leverage, it is an excellent hedge against inflation. It took some time for me to wrap my head around it, but you can't argue with the numbers (more beneficial $$$, but also less total volatility). However, its probably near impossible to convince the Ramsey/anti-debt crowd.


nobodyspecial

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2015, 07:53:03 PM »
Can anyone explain why banks would offer a fixed rate at 3-4% unless they expect no other investment to offer more than this?

If it makes sense for you to borrow money at 3-4% while investing in the market to get higher returns, why doesn't it make sense for Wall St?

Tjat

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #36 on: October 03, 2015, 07:16:06 AM »
Can anyone explain why banks would offer a fixed rate at 3-4% unless they expect no other investment to offer more than this?

Banks need the majority of their portfolio to be low risk. Despite the media hype, loaning out $300m of mortgages brings a pretty high level of certainty it will be paid back.

Quote
If it makes sense for you to borrow money at 3-4% while investing in the market to get higher returns, why doesn't it make sense for Wall St?

Wall Street does do this though leverage and option trading at massive $ levels. They just don't do it with mortgages because borrowing $100m through 1 house at a time is very inefficient.


Xlar

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #37 on: October 03, 2015, 11:17:00 AM »
Can anyone explain why banks would offer a fixed rate at 3-4% unless they expect no other investment to offer more than this?

Banks need the majority of their portfolio to be low risk. Despite the media hype, loaning out $300m of mortgages brings a pretty high level of certainty it will be paid back.

Quote
If it makes sense for you to borrow money at 3-4% while investing in the market to get higher returns, why doesn't it make sense for Wall St?

Wall Street does do this though leverage and option trading at massive $ levels. They just don't do it with mortgages because borrowing $100m through 1 house at a time is very inefficient.

The other thing is that the average American moves fairly regularly. This means that while the bank has signed a 30 yr loan at 3-4%, a large portion of people will keep the loan less than 10 years.

cube.37

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #38 on: October 07, 2015, 08:09:54 AM »
Can anyone explain why banks would offer a fixed rate at 3-4% unless they expect no other investment to offer more than this?

Banks need the majority of their portfolio to be low risk. Despite the media hype, loaning out $300m of mortgages brings a pretty high level of certainty it will be paid back.

Quote
If it makes sense for you to borrow money at 3-4% while investing in the market to get higher returns, why doesn't it make sense for Wall St?

Wall Street does do this though leverage and option trading at massive $ levels. They just don't do it with mortgages because borrowing $100m through 1 house at a time is very inefficient.

The other thing is that the average American moves fairly regularly. This means that while the bank has signed a 30 yr loan at 3-4%, a large portion of people will keep the loan less than 10 years.

This. Except that's why my Fiancee and I got a 7-year ARM at 3% instead of a fixed rate at 4%, despite the 30-year fixed rate being an amazing deal. We're planning on moving within 7 years, so it makes no sense to be paying 1% extra, despite the great deal. Also, it wouldn't serve as a great rental home so there would be very little reason to hold onto the house.

zephyr911

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Re: Retirement advice lunch from work
« Reply #39 on: October 09, 2015, 08:50:22 PM »
How hard is it? I was going to ask a friend of mine that's an electrician to install one in my bedroom. The wiring is something I don't know how to do.
My suggestion: have your friend do it, but be there as an extra pair of hands and have them show you the basics. I've done enough wiring that by the time I had a fan job it seemed easy, but if you're not comfortable then why not get the help? This is a good chance to get it done with pro help and acquire the knowledge safely.

My CW's job was replacing one existing fan, and, IIRC, replacing a light fixture with a fan. Easy stuff. Yes, minor possibility of complications on the 2nd fan, but most back boxes I've found in ceilings were more than adequate.