Author Topic: Retire Early? Not worth it  (Read 20546 times)

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5266
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2015, 10:22:27 PM »
Balance is great! I think the key is really finding what brings you joy & to spend your $ on that.  Just being cheap does not cut it.

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3210
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #51 on: June 17, 2015, 08:15:01 AM »
I think most people here do have balance in their lives. It's just that their balance points will be different then yours, or mine, or anyone else's.  As you've said here and in other threads, you want the big house, new car, luxury vacations, expensive hobbies, fine dining, etc... and are willing to work years longer to have those things because they are important to you. That is your balance. For many other's here, including myself, the things you want are not anything we would want regardless of our incomes. Many of us prefer to ride our bikes, live in small spaces, camp and hike rather than take cruises or luxury vacations, go carless, cook at home, have free hobbies, etc... That is our preferred state of living. To live in a different way with many more of the luxuries and trappings of a middle class American consumer lifestyle would make our lives very unbalanced. So what's balance a for you would be unbalanced for me.  And for me, working many years longer at even a beloved job in order to have things you really aren't interested in wouldn't be much of a trade-off for many of us. We want, and would rather have, freedom (FI and/or RE) then those other things which are unimportant to many of us.
[/quote]

For the record, I don't have, nor do I want, a big expensive house, both of mine that I've lived in (and I keep one as an investment property) are <1800 sq ft.  I also buy new cars but keep them a long time (I've owned one of mine for 8 years and the other for 4 years and expect to own both for a full decade at least). 

And I don't spend indiscriminently, I do target everything, but the point I'm trying to make is that sometimes people do buy make purchases that make them happy AND they do it when they can afford it AND they do it with both eyes open financially understanding what they can afford.  There's a tendancy here to think any purchase not in line with the groupthink is due to mindless, stupid fucking consumerism, and that's way too simplistic of an answer. 

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5266
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #52 on: June 17, 2015, 08:58:27 AM »
I agree. We are traveling around in our RV for the past month & it has not been cheap but saw & experienced some wonderful places. We also are going on a  3 week vacation with friends in Oct. 2 weeks of that will be on a cruise. NOt cheap either but things on our bucket list.  WE mostly cooked on this RV trip but ate out if we felt like it.   WE had a very expensive meal in the Grand Tetons but worth every penny.  One of the best meals I have ever had.  It boils down to not having everything but having what is important to you. We are now 60 & the past few years have been traveling more to see & do the things we had been putting off.   We also hunt for bargains on rates when we want to travel & it really pays off.  It allows us to do expensive things but not spend a ton of $. It just takes time to seek out the bargain prices or go in off season, etc.   

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 40
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #53 on: June 17, 2015, 10:33:47 AM »
Once again, someone equates being retired to sitting on your ass all day.  One of my retirement role models is the former director of my department, who retired earlier this year at 62.  Yeah, she went on a couple of trips and played some golf, but now what she does is volunteer.  She sits on the local board of Meals on Wheels and works with disadvantaged kids at a city elementary school.  She ADORES retirement because now she's doing what she WANTS to do, not what she HAS to do.  And she is definitely not bored.  My father, on the other hand, was one of the ones who did nothing after he retired but watch TV, and I have no doubt that led to his decline and demise.
I've read enough of these articles that I often don't bother. Before I even saw your comment I was thinking "oh look, probably another jackass who wants to project his/her own lack of imagination on MY life!"

Mrs.LC

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 226
    • Loose Change Living
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2015, 12:31:54 PM »
When you work everyday your scheduled is decided for you.  In retirement it is up to you to dictate the whens and hows.  Not everyone can handle being responsible like that - these are the people that say they will be bored or some other often-heard remark why retirement is not for them. 

TexasStash

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 98
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2015, 01:56:26 PM »
I was going to put this in another thread, but here is as good as any a place.

While this website was down the better part of 48 hours, I poked around a little on the web and found a funny thread on the Bogleheads site about MMM. A few of them went on and on about how he couldn't possibly be happy living on $25,000 a year and he was lying to himself and to those who frequent this website. Just wait until his family has a tragedy! Or his kid wants to go to college. When he's finally tired of all of this cheapness, he'll cave! Or wait--he's not even retired, he's lying about that because he does carpentry work and pulls in money from the MMM site. He even hires someone to edit his blog posts.

From this I learned to consider that while MMM may indeed be pulling in a tidy sum of money that's outside of his SWR, he's still someone who a bunch of Bogleheads finds threatening. That means he's da MAN!

And this site had better not go down again, it annoys me and leads me into unfriendly territory.

So what do they think a better alternative is?

A) Spend $100k/yr, have a million or so saved up by your 50s, have half wiped out by unforseen "tragedy" and kids' college.

B) Spend $25k/yr, have bit under a million saved up by your 30s, don't let money dictate your life, but happily accept money in exchange for your time if it's something you were interested in doing anyways. If/when tragedy happens you're well prepared. You can also easily afford kids' college, though they'll have better odds at getting most/all of their way paid (instead of working every single day, you can help enrich their life which makes them look good on applications, and can push them toward applying for free money). Sadly, you were constantly (three or four times a year) mocked for your 1-2 year old iPhone, and your 5yr old Prius.

C) Spend >X/yr (where X equals salary), have -$100k saved up by your 50s, kids' college is an unforseen tragedy causing you to remortgage your home, plunging you another $50k or more in the hole. You're sad when you realize you'll never be able to retire, and even sadder that you missed your kids growing up.

I guess they're in Camp A, we're in Camp B, and the majority of society is in Camp C.

I was going to say I see no reason why Camp A and Camp B can't get along, and just make fun of Camp C. But now I realize Camp A is more similar to Camp C than they (and maybe we) would like to admit. They're a tiny bit better at managing money; instead of going "Ooh, shiny, me want!" they go "Ooh, shiny, me want...so I must make a buttload more money to afford it!"

We in Camp B are more like "Ooh, it's shiny...but will it make me happier? Is that the most efficient use of my money? Perhaps I would be almost as happy, if not more so, with buying this alternative for 50% the price. Or perhaps I should spend 200% for this other, more reliable model. Wait...I've been happy for years without a gold plated ball washer...is this simply lifestyle inflation? I'm going to think about this for a while. If I decide to purchase, it will be because I believe it will add value to my life, and not simply because my neighbour Mr. Black bought one and won't stop bragging about his incredibly clean balls."

Edit: Confused myself.


What if there's a Camp D?  What if you genuinly ENJOY your job, and don't really mind going to work, and the process of rising up the ranks and getting promotions, etc, is actually rewarding to you?  And what if, as part of that lifestyle, you are willing to spend a little more money on convenience to buy yourself time (go out to eat, drive a car, pay a housekeeper) because that way you maximize both time spent at work and time spent with loved ones, and minimize time spent on drudgery like various chores?  What if you do all this while building a reasonable nest egg saving a sizeable portion of your salary AND putting away a bunch for your kids' college AND not worrying abouth whether dishwashing or hand washing dishes saves the absolute most money and if 72 degrees is more comfortable than 78 degrees and costs $20 more a month and you're willing to pay it?  What if you'd rather be at work at your desk working on complex problems than riding your bike around the middle of the morning on a Thursday?  What if the process of obsessing over every dollar spent and what it means to your savings rate is not valuable to you?  What if you could buy a shiny new car that still makes you happy 4 years later when that car is paid for, and you would have no plans to buy another?  What if you're willing to make reasonable concessions to not pollute and "Save" the environment but you don't let it rule your life and all of your decisions?

And on and on?  What if you understand....balance?

You at least had a case for Camp D until you made this comment: "What if the process of obsessing over every dollar spent and what it means to your savings rate is not valuable to you?"

STRAW MAN!

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8422
  • Registered member
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2015, 10:51:00 PM »
Quote
What if you genuinly ENJOY your job, and don't really mind going to work, and the process of rising up the ranks and getting promotions, etc, is actually rewarding to you?

Chris: That's an interesting way of looking at work - as sport, as recreation.  I doubt anyone here would bat an eye if I spent my early retirement playing video games all day... but if someone else's idea of a good time was playing the corporate game, would we be so open-minded?  That's a good reminder for me that different people enjoy different forms of play. 

Don't we always joke about the Early Retirement Police? If getting paid doesn't disqualify someone from being retired, then why should it disqualify someone's form of "play"?

Yes, many of people here reach FI and stay because they enjoy what they do.  I like to think we are pretty open to the idea of FI without ER

forummm

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7357
  • Senior Mustachian
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #57 on: June 21, 2015, 05:45:47 AM »
Quote
What if you genuinly ENJOY your job, and don't really mind going to work, and the process of rising up the ranks and getting promotions, etc, is actually rewarding to you?

Chris: That's an interesting way of looking at work - as sport, as recreation.  I doubt anyone here would bat an eye if I spent my early retirement playing video games all day... but if someone else's idea of a good time was playing the corporate game, would we be so open-minded?  That's a good reminder for me that different people enjoy different forms of play. 

Don't we always joke about the Early Retirement Police? If getting paid doesn't disqualify someone from being retired, then why should it disqualify someone's form of "play"?

Yes, many of people here reach FI and stay because they enjoy what they do.  I like to think we are pretty open to the idea of FI without ER

Think about it this way. If you take something you love and then it becomes your job, often you will start hating it because now it's "work" and not "fun" anymore. At least a portion of the time.

But now if you take something that's "work" because you have to do it to eat, and then you no longer are required to do it, then the psychology around it changes. I'm not FI yet, but I've already seen a change in how I feel about my job. I wouldn't do my particular job forever, but I could see myself "working" somewhere else.

Kaspian

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1536
  • Location: Canada
    • My Necronomicon of Badassity
Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #58 on: June 22, 2015, 02:44:07 PM »
A good rule of thumb:  Never, ever take financial advice from a Millennial couple who voluntarily call themselves "Joanna & Johnny" and have a pukeworthy cute photo of themselves head-to-head as an avatar.  Just plain NO.  As of their last article in November, it appears they were still paying off debt? They also claim that having a baby is "the cutest reason ever to buy life insurance".  Again--NO.    If I wanted advice from a perfect, creepy, plastic duo about money I'd try and contact David and Victoria Beckham.  ...At least I know they've made some good coin over the years.