Author Topic: Retire Early? Not worth it  (Read 20972 times)

kevinb421

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Retire Early? Not worth it
« on: September 19, 2014, 10:59:45 AM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable. Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner!!! Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work. You people have been lying to me.

coffeehound

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2014, 11:07:28 AM »
I have no words.  Only vague noises of disgust and derision.

The Guru

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 11:13:30 AM »
Wait till you realize that bicycling is more expensive than driving a Suburban and kills hundreds of thousands a year to boot! BWAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!!

Seriously, the third response I read - I believe the posters name was Katherine- gave a sensible rebuttal to the post- and then referenced mrmoneymustache.com!

MandalayVA

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 11:23:09 AM »
Once again, someone equates being retired to sitting on your ass all day.  One of my retirement role models is the former director of my department, who retired earlier this year at 62.  Yeah, she went on a couple of trips and played some golf, but now what she does is volunteer.  She sits on the local board of Meals on Wheels and works with disadvantaged kids at a city elementary school.  She ADORES retirement because now she's doing what she WANTS to do, not what she HAS to do.  And she is definitely not bored.  My father, on the other hand, was one of the ones who did nothing after he retired but watch TV, and I have no doubt that led to his decline and demise.

jaizan

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2014, 11:47:53 AM »
Here I am in my late 40s, still working, but not for long.

In terms of consumer goods, I have everything I want in life, house paid for & every electronic appliance I ever need.   
I spend weeks of every winter on holiday in tropical countries and still squeeze a week or even 2 in during the summer after all that. 
For the last 5 years in succession, my living costs have been less than my passive income. Passive income is now about double my living costs & those living costs are lower than the average income in my country, I just spend my money wisely. 


CaliToCayman

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2014, 12:09:47 PM »
To each his own - some people just can't fathom any good reason for others to not do EXACTLY what they do. The author's assumption is that you live in a dump, drive a 25 year old rusted car and eat nothing but home made sandwiches and ramen noodles for 15 years.

It really isn't too bad of a stretch to go from saving only what you put into a 401k to around 50% of your salary. For some people, like myself, saving to be able to quit your job isn't so that you can sit on the couch all day - it's to have the piece of mind of knowing you don't NEED your job. Or, to work part time at a more enjoyable (albeit, probably less profitable) job. The problem, at least for me, is that too often companies act as though you are lucky enough to even have a job and so when they ask you to do more with the same pay, you have no choice but to stay if you live paycheck to paycheck.

It'd be great to just "find a new career" as they say in the article as if it were that easy - but until the student loans which got me in a higher paying career in the first place are paid off, it probably wouldn't be too wise to make a career move where I'd either (a) have a lower pay or (b) have to incur more debt getting the education for a new career. I rather just work for another 10 years or so and be done with it, but hey to each his own.   

BonBon

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2014, 12:52:43 PM »
These articles really get me. I live a great life (as I'm sure most of you do).  I save close to 70% of my income and make 37K/year, so am fairly "average" at least in the salary regard. I have a very rich life in which I cook amazing food, play on multiple sports teams, do unlimited hot yoga in the winter, and have a fantastic wardrobe full of pieces I love (a lot of which are higher end brands made in the US) most of which are even bought new. I run and bike and am healthy. My partner also enjoys these things. I am going to Montreal for Christmas and to a friend's wedding in Italy this spring. I have an amazing life not just from a world perspective, but even when compared to most people within North America. The catch, we are a one car household (although my partner refers to it as his biggest financial mistake, a 2011 VW Jetta bought new, but on which we owe nothing) and we have avoiding buying a house as in Canadian markets it really isn't worth it, but who knows we are still young.

HappyRock

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2014, 12:53:27 PM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable. Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner!!! Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work. You people have been lying to me.

"I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable." BWHAHAHAHAHAH. I do hope this is a joke.

Sorry, but you and the author of this article are making inane assumptions, you may not belong on this forum. I live on less than 25% of my income ($26,000), and I live GREAT. I am the OPPOSITE of miserable.
I live in a good area with a low cost of living, and spend A LOT of money on things for myself, and others.

I think you are confusing being cheap (aka being miserable, greedy, stingy, which might be your case) with being SMART (getting the most utility out of your money, while still living well).

"Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work." BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Again, I just had to. This statement is just plain stupid. My father has been retired for 15 years and is CONSTANTLY keeping busy and having fun. I plan on doing the same.

I think you should read some more MMM - you obviously missed a lot of good information. Or these ideas just might not be for you, some people's brains are different. This is the true for everything people believe and do, which is why you simply should not argue about things like this

PS : On a side note, I think you should consider that the definition of "retire" on THIS forum, does not mean to never work again. It is used here because it sounds good. The word "retire" to us means being able to quit your job at any time and still live just as well. Plenty of us still do work after we "retire", but it is work we enjoy.

Also, no one is telling you to quit your job if you enjoy it. I see no reason to quit because I am still young, make a lot of money, and enjoy my job.

Sorry if I was offensive, I just thought that this was pretty ridiculous.

EDIT : If you don't have a high salary, it doesn't mean you have to live off 25% of your income. The idea is to cut out the money you waste that DOESN'T make you happier.


« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 12:56:54 PM by InvestFourMoreMMM »

MandalayVA

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2014, 01:04:49 PM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable. Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner!!! Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work. You people have been lying to me.

"I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable." BWHAHAHAHAHAH. I do hope this is a joke.


I think your sarcasm meter is broken.  :D

unseenstache

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2014, 01:05:07 PM »
The OP was being sarcastic. 

whitedragon

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2014, 01:11:23 PM »
The OP was being sarcastic.

Darnit, I was ninja'd...I was going to say the same thing.

unseenstache

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2014, 01:15:22 PM »
The OP was being sarcastic.

Darnit, I was ninja'd...I was going to say the same thing.

Mandalay beat me to it as well.   : )

DeepEllumStache

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2014, 01:23:01 PM »
Wait... being frugal means I'm miserable?  Thank goodness we all have important opinionated articles like this that help us turn away from the dark side! 

robotclown

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 01:23:39 PM »
Yes, the real quality in life comes from going to work until you are physically unable, and being surrounded by shiny objects.


RunHappy

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 01:49:33 PM »
If you have a full life before retirement then you'll have a full life after retirement.  The only difference is more time to live it.

While i would love to retire early (and probably will) my main goal is financial independence.  I love being a consultant but I would love more freedom to say "nah I don't think I'm going to work for the next 3-6 months" or "hmmmm this is a really interesting contract I want to do it" rather than just take whatever I have to (current situation).

Gone Fishing

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2014, 02:13:06 PM »
Sounds like they are a little low on Badassity to me...

Ohio Teacher

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2014, 02:34:26 PM »
Looks like Poe's Law hooked another victim: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe's_law

Although it's hard to imagine reading that OP and not realizing it is all tongue-in-cheek, it does happen as evidenced above.

kevinb421

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2014, 02:47:06 PM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable. Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner!!! Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work. You people have been lying to me.

"I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable." BWHAHAHAHAHAH. I do hope this is a joke.

Sorry, but you and the author of this article are making inane assumptions, you may not belong on this forum. I live on less than 25% of my income ($26,000), and I live GREAT. I am the OPPOSITE of miserable.
I live in a good area with a low cost of living, and spend A LOT of money on things for myself, and others.

I think you are confusing being cheap (aka being miserable, greedy, stingy, which might be your case) with being SMART (getting the most utility out of your money, while still living well).

"Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work." BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH. Again, I just had to. This statement is just plain stupid. My father has been retired for 15 years and is CONSTANTLY keeping busy and having fun. I plan on doing the same.

I think you should read some more MMM - you obviously missed a lot of good information. Or these ideas just might not be for you, some people's brains are different. This is the true for everything people believe and do, which is why you simply should not argue about things like this

PS : On a side note, I think you should consider that the definition of "retire" on THIS forum, does not mean to never work again. It is used here because it sounds good. The word "retire" to us means being able to quit your job at any time and still live just as well. Plenty of us still do work after we "retire", but it is work we enjoy.

Also, no one is telling you to quit your job if you enjoy it. I see no reason to quit because I am still young, make a lot of money, and enjoy my job.

Sorry if I was offensive, I just thought that this was pretty ridiculous.

EDIT : If you don't have a high salary, it doesn't mean you have to live off 25% of your income. The idea is to cut out the money you waste that DOESN'T make you happier.

I would have thought posting this in the Antimustache wall of shame was proof enough of my satire. I'll go back to adding that /s after my posts and hang my head in shame.

deborah

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2014, 02:53:04 PM »
It's a shame the authors have confused meanness with frugality. If you are mean with your money - buying stuff but buying the cheapest and most likely to break stuff - you are still a consumer. Frugality is breaking away from consumerism, asking what you really need and making decisions based upon that - possibly even buying the most expensive stuff.

iris lily

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2014, 03:11:18 PM »
I was going to put this in another thread, but here is as good as any a place.

While this website was down the better part of 48 hours, I poked around a little on the web and found a funny thread on the Bogleheads site about MMM. A few of them went on and on about how he couldn't possibly be happy living on $25,000 a year and he was lying to himself and to those who frequent this website. Just wait until his family has a tragedy! Or his kid wants to go to college. When he's finally tired of all of this cheapness, he'll cave! Or wait--he's not even retired, he's lying about that because he does carpentry work and pulls in money from the MMM site. He even hires someone to edit his blog posts.

From this I learned to consider that while MMM may indeed be pulling in a tidy sum of money that's outside of his SWR, he's still someone who a bunch of Bogleheads finds threatening. That means he's da MAN!

And this site had better not go down again, it annoys me and leads me into unfriendly territory.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2014, 04:00:58 PM »
I was going to put this in another thread, but here is as good as any a place.

While this website was down the better part of 48 hours, I poked around a little on the web and found a funny thread on the Bogleheads site about MMM. A few of them went on and on about how he couldn't possibly be happy living on $25,000 a year and he was lying to himself and to those who frequent this website. Just wait until his family has a tragedy! Or his kid wants to go to college. When he's finally tired of all of this cheapness, he'll cave! Or wait--he's not even retired, he's lying about that because he does carpentry work and pulls in money from the MMM site. He even hires someone to edit his blog posts.

From this I learned to consider that while MMM may indeed be pulling in a tidy sum of money that's outside of his SWR, he's still someone who a bunch of Bogleheads finds threatening. That means he's da MAN!

And this site had better not go down again, it annoys me and leads me into unfriendly territory.

So what do they think a better alternative is?

A) Spend $100k/yr, have a million or so saved up by your 50s, have half wiped out by unforseen "tragedy" and kids' college.

B) Spend $25k/yr, have bit under a million saved up by your 30s, don't let money dictate your life, but happily accept money in exchange for your time if it's something you were interested in doing anyways. If/when tragedy happens you're well prepared. You can also easily afford kids' college, though they'll have better odds at getting most/all of their way paid (instead of working every single day, you can help enrich their life which makes them look good on applications, and can push them toward applying for free money). Sadly, you were constantly (three or four times a year) mocked for your 1-2 year old iPhone, and your 5yr old Prius.

C) Spend >X/yr (where X equals salary), have -$100k saved up by your 50s, kids' college is an unforseen tragedy causing you to remortgage your home, plunging you another $50k or more in the hole. You're sad when you realize you'll never be able to retire, and even sadder that you missed your kids growing up.

I guess they're in Camp A, we're in Camp B, and the majority of society is in Camp C.

I was going to say I see no reason why Camp A and Camp B can't get along, and just make fun of Camp C. But now I realize Camp A is more similar to Camp C than they (and maybe we) would like to admit. They're a tiny bit better at managing money; instead of going "Ooh, shiny, me want!" they go "Ooh, shiny, me want...so I must make a buttload more money to afford it!"

We in Camp B are more like "Ooh, it's shiny...but will it make me happier? Is that the most efficient use of my money? Perhaps I would be almost as happy, if not more so, with buying this alternative for 50% the price. Or perhaps I should spend 200% for this other, more reliable model. Wait...I've been happy for years without a gold plated ball washer...is this simply lifestyle inflation? I'm going to think about this for a while. If I decide to purchase, it will be because I believe it will add value to my life, and not simply because my neighbour Mr. Black bought one and won't stop bragging about his incredibly clean balls."

Edit: Confused myself.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 02:42:04 PM by josetann »

marty998

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2014, 04:49:30 PM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable.

Knowing that I can live off only 25% of my income makes me quite happy actually.


libertarian4321

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #22 on: September 19, 2014, 04:59:37 PM »
The genius who wrote this article also failed to understand a key part of saving for early retirement.

If one is frugal, and puts away a huge part of his salary (75% as the article says), he will NOT need to live like a pauper when he retires at age 45 (or whatever).  If that money was invested consistently for decades, that person/couple is going to be sitting on a rather large pile of money.  He will likely be a multi-millionaire if he had a decent salary.  That invested money will not only kick off enough to live on, it will continue to compound.

Hopefully "Joanna and Johnny" can get by on their looks, because if they have to rely on their brains, they are in deep, deep trouble...

MrsPete

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #23 on: September 19, 2014, 06:31:28 PM »
It's a shame the authors have confused meanness with frugality. If you are mean with your money - buying stuff but buying the cheapest and most likely to break stuff - you are still a consumer. Frugality is breaking away from consumerism, asking what you really need and making decisions based upon that - possibly even buying the most expensive stuff.
Yes, I don't think the word "meanness" would've occurred to me, but that's just what I thought when I read the article. 

The article says that retiring early isn't worth the cost, and he says that the cost is never buying anything for yourself, never buying a birthday gift for your spouse, never going on a vacation.  What he's missing is that we should all SAVE and SPEND . . . but we should spend carefully and frugally, spend on the things that we value rather than buying just because we have cash in our pocket. 

He doesn't have a clue that he has the wrong side of this idea. 

Spartana

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2014, 10:49:27 PM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable. Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner!!! Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work. You people have been lying to me.
Whoa? What? Huh? You mean I was suppose to be miserable these past 10 plus years I was FIRE'd on my tiny income? Damn, no one told me and all this time I've been happy, fulfilled and enjoying my life. Guess I need to spend my time reading crappy articles online about how I'm suppose to be feeling (miserable and bored!) in early retirement instead of doing fun stuff. Who knew!

PS Kevin I did get that you were being sarcastic.



plantingourpennies

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2014, 06:06:37 AM »
Two things-

1.) Its click bait to a corporate site. These sites decide what content to promote based on how many clicks they get, not on truth, reality, social justice, spreading the good word, or whatever. ER/E is hot right now, so they wrote something to create false controversy and draw in eyeballs (and you suckers fell for it...)

2.) I think the author is actually a SAHM. Its hella easier to argue against early retirement when you're mostly out of the workforce already =/

Best,
Mr. PoP

fartface

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2014, 06:38:51 AM »
Here I am in my late 40s, still working, but not for long.

In terms of consumer goods, I have everything I want in life, house paid for & every electronic appliance I ever need.   
I spend weeks of every winter on holiday in tropical countries and still squeeze a week or even 2 in during the summer after all that. 
For the last 5 years in succession, my living costs have been less than my passive income. Passive income is now about double my living costs & those living costs are lower than the average income in my country, I just spend my money wisely.

AWESOME!

fartface

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2014, 06:41:36 AM »
The OP was being sarcastic.

Darnit, I was ninja'd...I was going to say the same thing.

Mandalay beat me to it as well.   : )

Dude - he was CLEARLY being sarcastic.

unseenstache

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2014, 06:51:35 AM »
Now im just confused.

tyd450

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2014, 07:52:24 AM »

I was going to put this in another thread, but here is as good as any a place.

While this website was down the better part of 48 hours, I poked around a little on the web and found a funny thread on the Bogleheads site about MMM. A few of them went on and on about how he couldn't possibly be happy living on $25,000 a year and he was lying to himself and to those who frequent this website. Just wait until his family has a tragedy! Or his kid wants to go to college. When he's finally tired of all of this cheapness, he'll cave! Or wait--he's not even retired, he's lying about that because he does carpentry work and pulls in money from the MMM site. He even hires someone to edit his blog posts.

From this I learned to consider that while MMM may indeed be pulling in a tidy sum of money that's outside of his SWR, he's still someone who a bunch of Bogleheads finds threatening. That means he's da MAN!

And this site had better not go down again, it annoys me and leads me into unfriendly territory.

I've been going to bogle heads forum for much longer than MMM but lately I am not enjoying it.  There seems to be such a pretentious attitude with many of the people there and outside of the basic bogle head investment philosophy I find most of the advice to be poor and materialistic.

LalsConstant

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2014, 10:46:02 AM »

Jon_Snow

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2014, 12:07:37 PM »
Oh, trust me, it's worth it.


TreeTired

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2014, 02:25:06 PM »
Instead of being annoyed I think Mustachians on this forum should be pleasantly amused and grateful for articles like this.   Maybe "anyone" can retire early if they save enough and control spending,  but isn't it generally accepted that "everyone" can't retire early?    I don't know what the US economy would look like without the rampant consumerism that is it's underlying bedrock, but it would sure look a lot different!

but this article!! #$$%#%#%?????

Quote
It's one thing if you really don't have the money to enjoy as many of life's simple pleasures as you might wish, but inflicting that on yourself is like taking your quality of life, crumpling it into a little ball, and throwing it in the nearest garbage can.

So it's ok if you are genuinely poor,  but not ok to live like a poor person if you aren't one.   omg
« Last Edit: September 20, 2014, 02:29:50 PM by NC_MJ »

MrsPete

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2014, 06:17:29 PM »
So it's ok if you are genuinely poor,  but not ok to live like a poor person if you aren't one.   omg
In my limited experience, poor people tend NOT to live like poor people.
It's one of the reason they REMAIN poor people.

missksaves

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2014, 06:52:01 PM »
Wow, I literally just read this today. I was a bit weirded out as if "the man" had found out about my MMM lurking habits and was trying to tempt me back to the dark side... From what I know, early retirement thinking is an outlier/anomaly for our society so for an entire article written up to renounce the FIRE movement seemed panicky.

Elderwood17

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2014, 02:00:05 PM »
Wow, I literally just read this today. I was a bit weirded out as if "the man" had found out about my MMM lurking habits and was trying to tempt me back to the dark side... From what I know, early retirement thinking is an outlier/anomaly for our society so for an entire article written up to renounce the FIRE movement seemed panicky.
That's it!  "The man" wants you to spend 110% of your income.

MandalayVA

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2014, 04:19:57 PM »
The OP was being sarcastic.

Darnit, I was ninja'd...I was going to say the same thing.

Mandalay beat me to it as well.   : )

Because, in the immortal words of DJ Khaled, all I do is win.

Hell, we're Mustachian Minions, all WE do is win!

2ndTimer

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2014, 09:21:58 AM »
I think the article is wonderful.  The more people who are convinced to stay in the workforce and buy shiny toys, the more shiny toys show up at thrift stores and yard sales for me to buy at pennies on the dollar.  Most of my biking and camping gear and all my furniture came from such people.  I hope they live long and prosper

eyePod

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #38 on: September 22, 2014, 11:51:59 AM »
As long as they keep buying, my stocks keep rising!

dragoncar

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #39 on: September 22, 2014, 10:55:39 PM »
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2014/09/18/early-retirement-fantasy-why-reality-not-worth-it/


I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable. Why didn't anyone tell me this sooner!!! Also post retirement is boring and I'll be desperate to go back to work. You people have been lying to me.

"I hope you all realize that living on 25% of your income means you will be miserable." BWHAHAHAHAHAH. I do hope this is a joke.


I think your sarcasm meter is broken.  :D

The question is: was InvestFourMoreMMM  being double secret sarcastic?

retireatbirth

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2015, 04:34:22 AM »
I just came across this article and it was so terrible I was going to start a thread about it, but being a good forum civilian I did a Google search and found this old thread to bump. Here's why this article is terrible:

1. Focuses on extreme budgeting

Quote
We found it essential to factor in $20 a week apiece in personal spending money, a short and inexpensive yearly vacation, new old clothing when needed (hello, thrift shops!), and eating out (which usually meant takeout) once a month.

Apparently I can't do any of these things and still be on track to retire early? The solutions aren't hard. I don't worry about the $20/week in personal spending because it has little impact on my goals so I spend it. I use credit card rewards to take very nice vacations practically free. I even buy new clothes at less expensive (but still stylish) stores such as Uniqlo and H&M. I do cut back on eating out, but I've become a better cook because of it.

2. Equates consumerism with happiness

Quote
It's one thing if you really don't have the money to enjoy as many of life's simple pleasures as you might wish, but inflicting that on yourself is like taking your quality of life, crumpling it into a little ball, and throwing it in the nearest garbage can.

Simple pleasures are not bought. I find more happiness in making my own food, brewing my own coffee, being more active, etc. The longer I go on this journey the more I understand its less about money and more about appreciating the simple things that don't cost anything.

3. Misses the math

Quote
The retirement nest egg you've built didn't have the extra decades to benefit from compound growth that the accounts of those retiring in their 60s enjoyed. So that tight budget you've been living under the last 10 or 15 years? It will just continue, with the only difference being that you won't be going into the office each day.

It's a valid point that you lose out on compound growth when you retire early, but that doesn't mean you won't have a comfortable budget in retirement. If you aim for retiring at 40 and decide you need more, you build in safety nets and maybe even work another year. Why resign yourself to working into your 60s?

4. Throws zingers at those who are early retired

Quote
Maybe you'd be able to claim that although you're still earning money with your labor in your "retired" state, you don't have to work if you don't want to. Well, yes, but would you be able to support the kind of life you want otherwise?

No comment...

Roboturner

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2015, 11:20:01 AM »
"I invite you to change your perspective. The early retirement game isn't about extreme budgeting and sacrifice. It's about maximizing utility. Can you have as much fun barbecuing on your back deck with friends as you could meeting them at a restaurant? That's money in the bank, with zero quality of life sacrifice. Could you be as happy in a small house close to work, with a shorter commute and fewer bathrooms to clean, as you could be in a big house far from work? Could your six-year-old have as much fun rambling in the woods with a parent who's not stuck at as he could over scheduled in endless enrichment activities? Is that ebook downloaded through the local library as enjoyable as the one purchased from Amazon? Would surfing during your beach vacation instead of scuba diving be just about as awesome? So often there's an alternative choice, something that brings us equal satisfaction for a lower cost. Why not choose it? You'll be as happy, if not more so, richer, and just by accident you'll likely be healthier and you'll put less strain on our planet's resources. All with a simple change in mindset. I recommend checking out www.mrmoneymustache.com."

Best comment in the article comment section, complete with -1 Downvote!!

Insanity

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Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2015, 12:50:31 PM »
The only issue I have is comparing scuba with surfing.  They are two different goals and satisfy two different interests.  From people that I know who love Scuba there is nothing that satisfies it but scuba.  And it isn't a money thing.  It is the distinct uniqueness of what you see on every dive at those depths.

Other than that nit pick, spot on.

Bob W

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #43 on: June 15, 2015, 05:49:28 PM »
I was going to put this in another thread, but here is as good as any a place.

While this website was down the better part of 48 hours, I poked around a little on the web and found a funny thread on the Bogleheads site about MMM. A few of them went on and on about how he couldn't possibly be happy living on $25,000 a year and he was lying to himself and to those who frequent this website. Just wait until his family has a tragedy! Or his kid wants to go to college. When he's finally tired of all of this cheapness, he'll cave! Or wait--he's not even retired, he's lying about that because he does carpentry work and pulls in money from the MMM site. He even hires someone to edit his blog posts.

From this I learned to consider that while MMM may indeed be pulling in a tidy sum of money that's outside of his SWR, he's still someone who a bunch of Bogleheads finds threatening. That means he's da MAN!

And this site had better not go down again, it annoys me and leads me into unfriendly territory.

So what do they think a better alternative is?

A) Spend $100k/yr, have a million or so saved up by your 50s, have half wiped out by unforseen "tragedy" and kids' college.

B) Spend $25k/yr, have bit under a million saved up by your 30s, don't let money dictate your life, but happily accept money in exchange for your time if it's something you were interested in doing anyways. If/when tragedy happens you're well prepared. You can also easily afford kids' college, though they'll have better odds at getting most/all of their way paid (instead of working every single day, you can help enrich their life which makes them look good on applications, and can push them toward applying for free money). Sadly, you were constantly (three or four times a year) mocked for your 1-2 year old iPhone, and your 5yr old Prius.

C) Spend >X/yr (where X equals salary), have -$100k saved up by your 50s, kids' college is an unforseen tragedy causing you to remortgage your home, plunging you another $50k or more in the hole. You're sad when you realize you'll never be able to retire, and even sadder that you missed your kids growing up.

I guess they're in Camp A, we're in Camp B, and the majority of society is in Camp C.

I was going to say I see no reason why Camp A and Camp B can't get along, and just make fun of Camp C. But now I realize Camp A is more similar to Camp C than they (and maybe we) would like to admit. They're a tiny bit better at managing money; instead of going "Ooh, shiny, me want!" they go "Ooh, shiny, me want...so I must make a buttload more money to afford it!"

We in Camp B are more like "Ooh, it's shiny...but will it make me happier? Is that the most efficient use of my money? Perhaps I would be almost as happy, if not more so, with buying this alternative for 50% the price. Or perhaps I should spend 200% for this other, more reliable model. Wait...I've been happy for years without a gold plated ball washer...is this simply lifestyle inflation? I'm going to think about this for a while. If I decide to purchase, it will be because I believe it will add value to my life, and not simply because my neighbour Mr. Black bought one and won't stop bragging about his incredibly clean balls."

Edit: Confused myself.
oh that was great!

jeromedawg

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2015, 05:58:54 PM »
"With extreme budgeting, there is no room for anything but the bare necessities, which is a plan that's generally set up to fail."

LOL! I wonder what she defines "bare necessities" as? Twigs and branches for shelter? SMH

Oh and this one's good too:
"It's one thing if you really don't have the money to enjoy as many of life's simple pleasures as you might wish, but inflicting that on yourself is like taking your quality of life, crumpling it into a little ball, and throwing it in the nearest garbage can."
« Last Edit: June 15, 2015, 06:01:31 PM by jplee3 »

MgoSam

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2015, 08:17:08 AM »
I have no problem with people that think this way. It is through workers such as them that spend nearly all of their disposable incomes that will make it possible for savers and investors like us to retire early.

Joking aside, early retirement isn't for everyone. There are a lot of people that derive their status and self-worth and enjoyment from work, and I have no place to judge them. There are those too that need the structure of a job to motivate them to keep moving, otherwise without concrete deadlines and rules, they may not function adequately.

RunHappy

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2015, 08:43:53 AM »
I have no problem with people that think this way. It is through workers such as them that spend nearly all of their disposable incomes that will make it possible for savers and investors like us to retire early.

Joking aside, early retirement isn't for everyone. There are a lot of people that derive their status and self-worth and enjoyment from work, and I have no place to judge them. There are those too that need the structure of a job to motivate them to keep moving, otherwise without concrete deadlines and rules, they may not function adequately.

This is very true.  My father retired early (3-4 years ago).  He went from being very active all day everyday in his job to essentially laying in bed/couch watching The History Channel all day long. 

Mr. Green

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2015, 10:22:09 AM »
We live on 25% of our income now. We don't need anything and when we do we buy it. No misery here!

MgoSam

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2015, 10:26:18 AM »
We live on 25% of our income now. We don't need anything and when we do we buy it. No misery here!

More power to you! I like clipping some excuses from me, this way I can find out what I truly care about having. If I want it, I can always add it back. Otherwise I might be spending money on a lot of things that aren't bringing me any real enjoyment.

Chris22

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Re: Retire Early? Not worth it
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2015, 10:54:54 AM »
I was going to put this in another thread, but here is as good as any a place.

While this website was down the better part of 48 hours, I poked around a little on the web and found a funny thread on the Bogleheads site about MMM. A few of them went on and on about how he couldn't possibly be happy living on $25,000 a year and he was lying to himself and to those who frequent this website. Just wait until his family has a tragedy! Or his kid wants to go to college. When he's finally tired of all of this cheapness, he'll cave! Or wait--he's not even retired, he's lying about that because he does carpentry work and pulls in money from the MMM site. He even hires someone to edit his blog posts.

From this I learned to consider that while MMM may indeed be pulling in a tidy sum of money that's outside of his SWR, he's still someone who a bunch of Bogleheads finds threatening. That means he's da MAN!

And this site had better not go down again, it annoys me and leads me into unfriendly territory.

So what do they think a better alternative is?

A) Spend $100k/yr, have a million or so saved up by your 50s, have half wiped out by unforseen "tragedy" and kids' college.

B) Spend $25k/yr, have bit under a million saved up by your 30s, don't let money dictate your life, but happily accept money in exchange for your time if it's something you were interested in doing anyways. If/when tragedy happens you're well prepared. You can also easily afford kids' college, though they'll have better odds at getting most/all of their way paid (instead of working every single day, you can help enrich their life which makes them look good on applications, and can push them toward applying for free money). Sadly, you were constantly (three or four times a year) mocked for your 1-2 year old iPhone, and your 5yr old Prius.

C) Spend >X/yr (where X equals salary), have -$100k saved up by your 50s, kids' college is an unforseen tragedy causing you to remortgage your home, plunging you another $50k or more in the hole. You're sad when you realize you'll never be able to retire, and even sadder that you missed your kids growing up.

I guess they're in Camp A, we're in Camp B, and the majority of society is in Camp C.

I was going to say I see no reason why Camp A and Camp B can't get along, and just make fun of Camp C. But now I realize Camp A is more similar to Camp C than they (and maybe we) would like to admit. They're a tiny bit better at managing money; instead of going "Ooh, shiny, me want!" they go "Ooh, shiny, me want...so I must make a buttload more money to afford it!"

We in Camp B are more like "Ooh, it's shiny...but will it make me happier? Is that the most efficient use of my money? Perhaps I would be almost as happy, if not more so, with buying this alternative for 50% the price. Or perhaps I should spend 200% for this other, more reliable model. Wait...I've been happy for years without a gold plated ball washer...is this simply lifestyle inflation? I'm going to think about this for a while. If I decide to purchase, it will be because I believe it will add value to my life, and not simply because my neighbour Mr. Black bought one and won't stop bragging about his incredibly clean balls."

Edit: Confused myself.


What if there's a Camp D?  What if you genuinly ENJOY your job, and don't really mind going to work, and the process of rising up the ranks and getting promotions, etc, is actually rewarding to you?  And what if, as part of that lifestyle, you are willing to spend a little more money on convenience to buy yourself time (go out to eat, drive a car, pay a housekeeper) because that way you maximize both time spent at work and time spent with loved ones, and minimize time spent on drudgery like various chores?  What if you do all this while building a reasonable nest egg saving a sizeable portion of your salary AND putting away a bunch for your kids' college AND not worrying abouth whether dishwashing or hand washing dishes saves the absolute most money and if 72 degrees is more comfortable than 78 degrees and costs $20 more a month and you're willing to pay it?  What if you'd rather be at work at your desk working on complex problems than riding your bike around the middle of the morning on a Thursday?  What if the process of obsessing over every dollar spent and what it means to your savings rate is not valuable to you?  What if you could buy a shiny new car that still makes you happy 4 years later when that car is paid for, and you would have no plans to buy another?  What if you're willing to make reasonable concessions to not pollute and "Save" the environment but you don't let it rule your life and all of your decisions?

And on and on?  What if you understand....balance?