Relatives who just don't get it

[Plina]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

Yeah, I’m with you. I get it a bit….it’s family, but I have limits. Pretty sure our immediate neighbor has a deadbeat adult son living with them. Just observing while doing yard work or coming and going, that is how it seems. Hope it’s working for them, but no way I could ever burden my parents by coming home. The only thing sadder to me is when I see people raising their grandchildren.

Lots of layers of complexity and if course an outsider really has no clue what is really going on.

Thank you for admitting how much you don't know. Someone might have looked at my family and thought that my parents had a "deadbeat" son living with them, but he was my brother and we loved him and what were they supposed to do? Let him freeze to death the winter his heat was cut off during a cold snap? He did take out the garbage and do some other heavy chores around the house when he was there. It's not that he WOULDN'T live on his own. He was really and truly incapable of jumping through the hoops that you have to jump through to have stable housing and (mental) health care and nutritious food in the American system. (I'm using the past tense because he died last year- the liver is an unforgiving organ.)

That's not to say that economic outpatient care isn't real- I'm sure we could all give examples. But sometimes it's just people who Can't.

At least, I was referring to people that seem to be able to live by themselves. If you can adopt a child, in most of the countries, you have to be a capable adult. Mental health problems or disabilities is not comparable to people that find it easier to live on someone else money. I am sorry to hear about your brother. It is a huge problem when systems are so complicated that you have to be healthy to be able to navigate them or to have someone champion you.

[Hash Brown]

This thread is going to blow up next week

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a dad who turned into a woman. 

It's absolutely insufferable.  She can't stop name dropping and acting like she works so hard. 

She kept cheating while playing scrabble.  Specifically, she kept her phone open to an online scrabble dictionary despite us telling her we're going by the 1978 scrabble dictionary we always use. 

So what she did was throw down b.s. words under the assumption that we wouldn't challenge because we could all see that she was looking up words, and so the words must be legit. 

So I challenged her on RA.  Yes, just the letters r and a, as in the Egyptian god RA.   

The 1978 scrabble dictionary was consulted and no RA was to be found.  She then tried to intimidate me out of challenging her for the rest of the game since her tactic had been revealed.   

Late in the game, an H was dangling out there on the left side of the board, and I laid down my own r & a, forming the word RAH.  Triple word score.  Without a doubt the finest laying of Scrabble tiles in my life.  She was pissed. 

She has a degree from a pretty high-ranking university you've all heard of.  I'm sure her parents paid the full bill and she cheated her way through. 

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a parent who is a transgender woman dad who turned into a woman. 

Fixed that for you. I shan't quibble with your judgments of the value of the show or that your brother's girlfriend sounds obnoxious and I probably wouldn't like her either!

[Metalcat]

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a parent who is a transgender woman dad who turned into a woman. 

Fixed that for you. I shan't quibble with your judgments of the value of the show or that your brother's girlfriend sounds obnoxious and I probably wouldn't like her either!

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

[AlanStache]

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a parent who is a transgender woman dad who turned into a woman. 

Fixed that for you. I shan't quibble with your judgments of the value of the show or that your brother's girlfriend sounds obnoxious and I probably wouldn't like her either!

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret. 

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

[Adventine]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

[Sibley]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Um, how stupid is your sister exactly? Because it's really not hard to find the Amazon prime free trial. At all. It's actually harder to avoid it than get it.

[ysette9]

Holy mother. That is mind blowing.

[lemanfan]

Once my (older but not wiser) brother excitedly reported that he had a new job opportunity with some sort of Eastern European travel agency. All he had to do was open a bank account in his name and deposit the checks they sent. Of course, he had to immediately transfer the funds to the "agent" before the aforementioned checks had cleared. I had to explain how this was a complete scam, to his utter shock and dismay. I think I caught it early before he actually did any transactions but I'm not completely sure.

In my part of the world (Sweden), we haven't really used checks since the 1990:ies and cash is quickly disappearing too.  Since criminals still need a way to tunnel money that they embezzle out of old people and other crime victims, you can read almost every week in the news about how some unsuspecting 20 year old is charged with money laundering for letting criminals use their bank account to transfer money.

When will people learn?

[snowball]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Wow, that's horrifying.  Can I ask how exactly that cascaded into draining multiple accounts?  Did the scammers just get a login that both accounts fell under, or was it more involved than that?

[Metalcat]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

[snowball]

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

Hah, I don't want to take credit for more ignorance than I have managed to sustain :P - I kind of know who they are, and I'm vaguely aware that there's a reality TV show (or maybe more than one, who knows) and lots of uninteresting-to-me-and-probably-mostly-made-up-for-the-views drama.

My primary mental referent for "Kardashian" is still "Cardassian", so when that name comes up I tend to go down a mental Star Trek rabbit hole and tune out whatever someone may be saying about the actual Kardashians.  Whoever they are.  (Okay, I do actually know the most famous one is named Kim, and there's a handful of sisters, and I think they all have K names.  It's hard to live far enough under a rock to avoid absorbing that much, even when you don't particularly want to know any of it.)

I have a giant blackout category of "I Don't Care" encompassing most of the celebrity and Hollywood world...there are a lot of apparently-household-names I don't recognize at all (the above short listing of Kardashian facts is quite extensive, for me), and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change that.  I'd rather go listen to a podcast discussing how to address the failings of the current state of scientific publishing any day.  Yay for low information diets! lol.

[Metalcat]

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

Hah, I don't want to take credit for more ignorance than I have managed to sustain :P - I kind of know who they are, and I'm vaguely aware that there's a reality TV show (or maybe more than one, who knows) and lots of uninteresting-to-me-and-probably-mostly-made-up-for-the-views drama.

My primary mental referent for "Kardashian" is still "Cardassian", so when that name comes up I tend to go down a mental Star Trek rabbit hole and tune out whatever someone may be saying about the actual Kardashians.  Whoever they are.  (Okay, I do actually know the most famous one is named Kim, and there's a handful of sisters, and I think they all have K names.  It's hard to live far enough under a rock to avoid absorbing that much, even when you don't particularly want to know any of it.)

I have a giant blackout category of "I Don't Care" encompassing most of the celebrity and Hollywood world...there are a lot of apparently-household-names I don't recognize at all (the above short listing of Kardashian facts is quite extensive, for me), and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change that.  I'd rather go listen to a podcast discussing how to address the failings of the current state of scientific publishing any day.  Yay for low information diets! lol.

I'm not faulting you at all for it, I'm just kind of gobsmacked at your capacity to stay unaware. My DH pretty much only reads The Financial Times, and even he's aware of the Kardashian-sphere as a result.

[PDXTabs]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

I too didn't catch the reference. I know that Keeping Up with the Kardashians was a show that I never watched and I know that Caitlyn Jenner ran for office but I honestly forgot that Caitlyn Jenner was in the show because I never watched it. Also, I tried not to pay attention. I guess that it worked.

[RWD]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

I too didn't catch the reference. I know that Keeping Up with the Kardashians was a show that I never watched and I know that Caitlyn Jenner ran for office but I honestly forgot that Caitlyn Jenner was in the show because I never watched it. Also, I tried not to pay attention. I guess that it worked.

Wait, is Caitlyn Jenner related to the Kardashians? I literally have no clue other than having heard some names...

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

I keep my money to myself but Mom, other sister and this one are all on each other's accounts and the same bank which my sister keeps track of on her phone. Luckily the bank stopped the transactions and froze the accounts before the money was actually gone but my family didn't know that till the next morning.

[RetiredAt63]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

I keep my money to myself but Mom, other sister and this one are all on each other's accounts and the same bank which my sister keeps track of on her phone. Luckily the bank stopped the transactions and froze the accounts before the money was actually gone but my family didn't know that till the next morning.

WHEW!!!

Good for the bank!

[RetiredAt63]

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

Hah, I don't want to take credit for more ignorance than I have managed to sustain :P - I kind of know who they are, and I'm vaguely aware that there's a reality TV show (or maybe more than one, who knows) and lots of uninteresting-to-me-and-probably-mostly-made-up-for-the-views drama.

My primary mental referent for "Kardashian" is still "Cardassian", so when that name comes up I tend to go down a mental Star Trek rabbit hole and tune out whatever someone may be saying about the actual Kardashians.  Whoever they are.  (Okay, I do actually know the most famous one is named Kim, and there's a handful of sisters, and I think they all have K names.  It's hard to live far enough under a rock to avoid absorbing that much, even when you don't particularly want to know any of it.)

I have a giant blackout category of "I Don't Care" encompassing most of the celebrity and Hollywood world...there are a lot of apparently-household-names I don't recognize at all (the above short listing of Kardashian facts is quite extensive, for me), and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change that.  I'd rather go listen to a podcast discussing how to address the failings of the current state of scientific publishing any day.  Yay for low information diets! lol.

Me too.  I recognize the names but have no idea why they are famous - and don't care.

Celebrities, sports names - they all wash by me, I don't give them the energy of a click.

[AMandM]

Wait, is Caitlyn Jenner related to the Kardashians? I literally have no clue other than having heard some names...

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

[Metalcat]

Wait, is Caitlyn Jenner related to the Kardashians? I literally have no clue other than having heard some names...

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

Two, the younger of whom was on the cover of Forbes as the youngest self made billionaire in the world, which lead to a very heated debate within the financial world as to how "billionaire" is defined, and the definition of "self made". There were several articles linking the shady definitions of NW among the ultra wealthy and how Trump's NW has been defined over the years. It's actually very interesting.

[Plina]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Out of curiosity, why would they have access to eachothers accounts? I had a power of attorney to my parents account during the per internet days when you had to visit the bank and my parents lived far away.
Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

I keep my money to myself but Mom, other sister and this one are all on each other's accounts and the same bank which my sister keeps track of on her phone. Luckily the bank stopped the transactions and froze the accounts before the money was actually gone but my family didn't know that till the next morning.

[snowball]

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

Two, the younger of whom was on the cover of Forbes as the youngest self made billionaire in the world, which lead to a very heated debate within the financial world as to how "billionaire" is defined, and the definition of "self made". There were several articles linking the shady definitions of NW among the ultra wealthy and how Trump's NW has been defined over the years. It's actually very interesting.

That does sound like a much more interesting conversation (to me) than stuff about who's dating whom or had plastic surgery or whatever.  I did completely miss it though.

I'm not faulting you at all for it, I'm just kind of gobsmacked at your capacity to stay unaware.

No worries, that's exactly the tone in which I read your comments, lol.

[Metalcat]

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

Two, the younger of whom was on the cover of Forbes as the youngest self made billionaire in the world, which lead to a very heated debate within the financial world as to how "billionaire" is defined, and the definition of "self made". There were several articles linking the shady definitions of NW among the ultra wealthy and how Trump's NW has been defined over the years. It's actually very interesting.

That does sound like a much more interesting conversation (to me) than stuff about who's dating whom or had plastic surgery or whatever.  I did completely miss it though.

That's why I was gobsmacked. They've been in the real news so often for so many years. You can know nothing about their reality nonsense, but still see a ton of political and financial coverage about them.

Just like I've never watched a single video of any of the current batch of massively wealthy and influential YouTube celebrities, but I'm aware of them as a GIANT economic force.

[rockstache]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

[zolotiyeruki]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

FWIW, I'm about as knowledgable about the Kardashians as snowball and RetiredAt63.  Is it a point of pride?  Meh, I don't know.  I lump that type of entertainment with reality TV and soap operas--its main objective is its own perpetuation, and I have more than enough more consequential things in my life to pay attention to...

[TomTX]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't generally follow celebrity news, and I select articles from the sources I do use (NYT, WaPo, BBC, Google News) - I just don't have interest in much "celebrity" stuff, so I generally just don't see it. The only recentish celebrity news I remember is an actor accidentally shooting someone on set, and beyond that it took me awhile to remember it was a Baldwin. Alex? Alec? Something like that. If I watch clips from some late-night talk show, I often don't recognize the famous people at all.

Now all that said:

Dolly Parton is an exception, shes just an awesome person - even if she's not really in the news anymore.

Ryan Reynolds is an exception. He's a national treasure and the perfect choice for Deadpool.

I am generally aware of the Kardashians branched out beyond reality TV and some have amassed a financial empire. Can't tell you which ones.

[DadJokes]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

[SwordGuy]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't think it has anything to do with sexism and has EVERYTHING to do with the Kardashians being a social celebrity juggernaut of rather epic proportions.

If there are guys in the social celebrity world that fit that same bill and I know nothing about them, I'll be equally proud to be ignorant about them, too.   

[PhilB]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

[Metalcat]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't generally follow celebrity news, and I select articles from the sources I do use (NYT, WaPo, BBC, Google News) - I just don't have interest in much "celebrity" stuff, so I generally just don't see it. The only recentish celebrity news I remember is an actor accidentally shooting someone on set, and beyond that it took me awhile to remember it was a Baldwin. Alex? Alec? Something like that. If I watch clips from some late-night talk show, I often don't recognize the famous people at all.

Now all that said:

Dolly Parton is an exception, shes just an awesome person - even if she's not really in the news anymore.

Ryan Reynolds is an exception. He's a national treasure and the perfect choice for Deadpool.

I am generally aware of the Kardashians branched out beyond reality TV and some have amassed a financial empire. Can't tell you which ones.

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

But had be been ever so slightly more sane, he had Musk's endorsement, and could have had a serious impact. I was just kind of holding my breath to see how that played out.

Kim had meetings at the White House and brought attention to prison reform policy, which is a HUGE issue in the US right now, and she single-handedly turned millions of eyes towards it that might have never thought twice about it.

Regardless of how celebrity is obtained, once someone has that much money and that much hold over huge swaths of the population, they are a significant economic and political force.

Elon Musk's influence on things like crypto is largely because of his celebrity. He got his celebrity because of his business accomplishments, but his celebrity alone has an enormous force in and of itself. Same with any other mega celebrity.

When you're that famous, you *are* a platform. Regardless of how you got there.

I couldn't give two shits who's dating who, or who cheated on who, but I definitely take notice of someone who has the power to influence that many people, and how they choose to use or *not* use that influence.

Similarly, I don't know anything about Taylor Swift's music, but I was keenly aware when she made the choice to go from being apolitical to heavily promoting her pro-LGBTQ+ values, which was significant as she had been an alt-right, neo-nazi icon for years.

[snowball]

For what it's worth, I mostly don't follow the news in general. I've been monitoring it a bit more during the pandemic, but only because I want to be aware of where things are with vaccines and restrictions.

I'm not sure I can say anything more about Kanye other than that he's a musician I don't listen to.  I think I saw something about him running for president?  But if you hadn't said that, Malcat, I would never have remembered that piece of info on my own.

I don't at all mean this to be a flex of "look how awesome I am" in tuning out of politics and - really - the world as a whole.  I have taken it to an extreme, and I don't think there's anything particularly admirable in that.  I used to pay much more attention, many years ago, but right now when I think about going back to that level of engagement...it makes me feel deeply tired, kind of like I feel when I think about the idea of going back to my career.  Maybe after I've been FIREd longer, this part of my brain will come back.  I don't think I have had that specific type of emotional energy to spare for a long time.  I can't even bring myself to follow climate-related stuff, for the most part, and I care deeply about that.

[rockstache]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

[Hash Brown]

Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1. 


(Mod note: banned)

[Morning Glory]

Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1.

Well, men have sportsball. Kind of the same thing really.  I wonder how much of both comes from a desperate attempt to fit in and relate to one another?

[PhilB]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

Thanks for responding.  I can see how you might think that and it probably is indeed true for some of the people in the wider world who run down particular celebrities. 

I'm old enough to just be naturally prejudiced against people who are just famous for being famous / acting up in public.  That prejudice applies without reference to gender, race, orientation or anything else.  I am perfectly happy, however, to extend that prejudice to people who initially gain fame by doing something like creating a major company or being good at kicking a ball, but then use that fame to act like a dick :)

[SwordGuy]

Well, men have sportsball. Kind of the same thing really.  I wonder how much of both comes from a desperate attempt to fit in and relate to one another?

I suspect it's a lot of it.

Many years ago I used to work for a Dutch firm.  I was in Rotterdam visiting corporate headquarters when the US got into the soccer world cup tournament for the first time.   This was a big enough deal at the office that even I, someone who doesn't give a damn about sportsball of any sort, was aware of it.

We were having a drink at the hotel bar with some of the workers from hq and one of the soccer games was on the tv in the background and they were all excited about it.  I made a comment to the effect that soccer was the least disinteresting of the various ball games.   

The result was simply astounding.  I was now "One of the guys!".    Got some shoulder hugs.   The next day they brought me a hat and facepaint in the Dutch team colors.  (Orange, of course!)    I was flabbergasted.

So, yeah, it's kind of like a topic they provides "Instant Male Bondo".

I still don't understand why people care.   I mean, for American football, why should I care whether one group of strangers can carry a piece of dead pig around a field better than another group of strangers?  It's a complete mystery to me.

Then again, I put on medieval armor and let people hit me with sticks, so who am I to judge?  :)

[Metalcat]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

Thanks for responding.  I can see how you might think that and it probably is indeed true for some of the people in the wider world who run down particular celebrities. 

I'm old enough to just be naturally prejudiced against people who are just famous for being famous / acting up in public.  That prejudice applies without reference to gender, race, orientation or anything else.  I am perfectly happy, however, to extend that prejudice to people who initially gain fame by doing something like creating a major company or being good at kicking a ball, but then use that fame to act like a dick :)

But is kicking a ball intrinsically more impressive than being a branding genius? Because that's what the K clan are, fucking branding geniuses.

I'm personally more impressed by someone generating multiple billion dollar empires out of thin fucking air than I am by some dude who kicks a ball well and runs real, real fast.

Why is an athlete fundamentally deserving of more respect than someone who has the savvy to make fucking billions off of emojis?
I remember when I read a financial news source article about just how much Kim was making off of her bloody emoji line, and I was gobsmacked, it was making 1M/minute the day of its release. That's fucking insanity.

Kylie is most famous for phenomenal personal branding, and launching a remarkably successful business in a product space that is notoriously cutthroat and viciously competitive, and she was wildly successful competing against industry giants. She was written up in Forbes for a reason.

Again, I find that more impressive than kicking a ball and running real, real fast.

So I have to say, I do find it kind of fascinating that people like to ignore the massive skill, savvy, and accomplishments of these insanely successful business women. Because they aren't famous for nothing, they're famous for reading the market exquisitely well and branding the absolute fuck out of any and every asset they had at their disposal to become some of the most influential people in the world.

If they were a case where there was a professional business manager behind their entire career who designed their brand, launched them, managed their image, and then launched major businesses off the backs of their fame while they acted like pretty puppets, that manager would be celebrated as an absolute business genius.

Only their manager is their mom, and they're smart enough to launch their own businesses, so they don't get the credit for some reason.

[SwordGuy]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

Thanks for responding.  I can see how you might think that and it probably is indeed true for some of the people in the wider world who run down particular celebrities. 

I'm old enough to just be naturally prejudiced against people who are just famous for being famous / acting up in public.  That prejudice applies without reference to gender, race, orientation or anything else.  I am perfectly happy, however, to extend that prejudice to people who initially gain fame by doing something like creating a major company or being good at kicking a ball, but then use that fame to act like a dick :)

But is kicking a ball intrinsically more impressive than being a branding genius? Because that's what the K clan are, fucking branding geniuses.

I'm personally more impressed by someone generating multiple billion dollar empires out of thin fucking air than I am by some dude who kicks a ball well and runs real, real fast.

Why is an athlete fundamentally deserving of more respect than someone who has the savvy to make fucking billions off of emojis?
I remember when I read a financial news source article about just how much Kim was making off of her bloody emoji line, and I was gobsmacked, it was making 1M/minute the day of its release. That's fucking insanity.

Kylie is most famous for phenomenal personal branding, and launching a remarkably successful business in a product space that is notoriously cutthroat and viciously competitive, and she was wildly successful competing against industry giants. She was written up in Forbes for a reason.

Again, I find that more impressive than kicking a ball and running real, real fast.

So I have to say, I do find it kind of fascinating that people like to ignore the massive skill, savvy, and accomplishments of these insanely successful business women. Because they aren't famous for nothing, they're famous for reading the market exquisitely well and branding the absolute fuck out of any and every asset they had at their disposal to become some of the most influential people in the world.

If they were a case where there was a professional business manager behind their entire career who designed their brand, launched them, managed their image, and then launched major businesses off the backs of their fame while they acted like pretty puppets, that manager would be celebrated as an absolute business genius.

Only their manager is their mom, and they're smart enough to launch their own businesses, so they don't get the credit for some reason.

You are absolutely correct!

I have zero interest in what they brand but I admire their ability to do it so very well.   Caught a few minutes of a tv interview with Kim K. a decade or so back and she was quite impressive.  Interviewer flat out said she had no entertainer talent and wondered how she was an entertainment celebrity.   She agreed with him that she had no talent at singing, dancing, acting, writing, etc., and then told him it wasn't easy being so very good at entertaining with no talent, but she was doing it.   Stopped that line of questions in its tracks.

[PhilB]

@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

[Metalcat]

@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

[2Cent]

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

Inopportune, perhaps.  But at least you normally have several months' warning...

With adoption you also have to go through a long process, don't worry. Anyway, I think your parents might prefer to have a grandson while they are still relatively young instead of elderly. At their age a few years waiting means missing out on a few years of their grandchild's life. Kids are for me one of the things that supersede finance. Because while you may get a chance to fix your finances, for kids there is a time window until mid thirties after which it fast starts becoming less feasible. You may have a lot more money, but you will have a lot less energy.  Living with multiple generations together is also the way it has always been until very recently. If your brother has your retired parents happy and standing by to help that is a great situation to raise a child. For some things it's good to go it alone and work it out for yourself. Kids is not one of those things. There you should take as much help as you can find because it's not about you, but about the child. (Obviously not at the cost of your own involvement.)

[PhilB]

@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

[SunnyDays]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

What island?

[Metalcat]

@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

There are plenty of self aggrandizing billionaires who shamelessly self promote. Elon Musk is as much a brand of personality as his actual products that he sells. What amazing product did Zuckerberg produce? How is a social media site somehow more legitimate than a reality brand? Why is their product somehow more unseemly than the countless other dreadful products out there?

I think the line is much greyer than people make it out to be. People just do REALLY like to "other" the Kardashians when it comes to their business acumen.

[Morning Glory]

@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

Hmm, something about an insurrection in that one. Maybe that's why we had to memorize it. Nos autem fortes viri...

[Taran Wanderer]

@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

There are plenty of self aggrandizing billionaires who shamelessly self promote. Elon Musk is as much a brand of personality as his actual products that he sells. What amazing product did Zuckerberg produce? How is a social media site somehow more legitimate than a reality brand? Why is their product somehow more unseemly than the countless other dreadful products out there?

I think the line is much greyer than people make it out to be. People just do REALLY like to "other" the Kardashians when it comes to their business acumen.

Interesting note about Zuckerberg. What would Facebook be like if he had a public persona that people actually liked??

[Dicey]

Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1. 


(Mod note: banned)

Thank you, FT.

[Cassie]

I pay little attention to the K crew but did know when one was going to run for president and I laughed. That dismissal might have been premature as we did elect trump.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I pay little attention to the K crew but did know when one was going to run for president and I laughed. That dismissal might have been premature as we did elect trump.

Also, his wife says he's mentally ill. Being mentally ill when you are already famous doesn't leave a lot of room for error.