Relatives who just don't get it

[PDXTabs]

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy.

He sounds a lot like my first wife, who I have kids with. We get along just fine now that we aren't married/living together. Of course I pay a bunch of child support because she never got it together financially, but that probably wouldn't be the case for you.

[Sugaree]

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy.

He sounds a lot like my first wife, who I have kids with. We get along just fine now that we aren't married/living together. Of course I pay a bunch of child support because she never got it together financially, but that probably wouldn't be the case for you.

For all his faults, he did fix both the dryer and the air conditioner yesterday. 

[Sugaree]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

[Zamboni]

^I pretty much always go along with that kind of "referral" stuff from family unless I see a big downside for me. Makes thenm happy and doesn't really cost me anything except a few minutes, which I am okay with devoting to their happiness.

This is why I currently have $58 and change sitting in a Robinhood Acct in cryptocurrency, lol. I've also periodically had all of the phone money transfer apps from the "they get $10 and you get $10" referrals from family. Most of the time I transfer the "bonus" money back to my normal account and then just close the thing within a month.

[Sugaree]

@Zamboni, he hasn't straight up asked me to join.  I'm not sure I'm interested in having yet another bank account, especially one where the closest branch is an hour and half away and seems to require a direct deposit.  I suspect that he'll end up talking dad into it since he's also eligible. 

[Zamboni]

it's a pain for sure. Obviously I really love these people! If he can get someone else to do it, though, all the better.

[brandon4454]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

[TheFrenchCat]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

Wow.  My dad loves boating and fishing too, so he owns a boat, but he paid for it in cash. And that was $26k, and it's a decent size boat, so I'd imagine a $70k boat is pretty huge and/or fancy.  Also, did not know you could trade in boats, or get boat loans for that matter.  I just assumed that anyone who'd get one could afford to pay for it in cash, especially since owning and maintaining them is so expensive.

Course I was well into my teens before I knew you could finance cars, since my family has always paid cash, even when we were poorer.  So I'm probably not the best source of what can or can't be financed.

[ixtap]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

Wow.  My dad loves boating and fishing too, so he owns a boat, but he paid for it in cash. And that was $26k, and it's a decent size boat, so I'd imagine a $70k boat is pretty huge and/or fancy.  Also, did not know you could trade in boats, or get boat loans for that matter.  I just assumed that anyone who'd get one could afford to pay for it in cash, especially since owning and maintaining them is so expensive.

Course I was well into my teens before I knew you could finance cars, since my family has always paid cash, even when we were poorer.  So I'm probably not the best source of what can or can't be financed.

If your boat has a galley, head and place to sleep, you may even be able to count the boat loan as a mortgage on a second home.

[PDXTabs]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

Wow.  My dad loves boating and fishing too, so he owns a boat, but he paid for it in cash. And that was $26k, and it's a decent size boat, so I'd imagine a $70k boat is pretty huge and/or fancy.  Also, did not know you could trade in boats, or get boat loans for that matter.  I just assumed that anyone who'd get one could afford to pay for it in cash, especially since owning and maintaining them is so expensive.

Course I was well into my teens before I knew you could finance cars, since my family has always paid cash, even when we were poorer.  So I'm probably not the best source of what can or can't be financed.

If your boat has a galley, head and place to sleep, you may even be able to count the boat loan as a mortgage on a second home.

Yup: https://www.nuventurecpa.com/blog/tag/can+i+write+off+the+interest+on+my+boat+loan

And at least sailboats depreciate much slower than cars, but have far more upkeep.

[ixtap]

We paid cash for our boat, but we have certain family members capable of simultaneously believing that we are frivolous for owning a boat and depriving ourselves by choosing to live on our boat...

[Mighty Eyebrows]

And at least sailboats depreciate much slower than cars, but have far more upkeep.

"A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into."

"The second happiest day of a boat-owner's life is the day they buy the boat..."

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

And at least sailboats depreciate much slower than cars, but have far more upkeep.

"A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into."

"The second happiest day of a boat-owner's life is the day they buy the boat..."

My father used to say that boats are like children. The happiest days are the day you bring them home, and "the day you get rid of them."*

*Said with affection, Daddy is a man who likes his jokes blunt.

[Yanisimo]

Not my relatives, but close friends: My friend bought a < $2K Peloton bike for her husband. They're upper middle class, workaholics, spend a lot of what they earn, and contribute the bare minimum to their retirement accounts. They're flashy people who like to put on a show for others. Anyway, my friend's husband is showing me all the online features of the Peloton bike. He remarks that the online features are free. The wife corrects him. It's not free. Husband is taken aback, asks how much they are paying per month. My friend is uncomfortable, but eventually admits the bike is on a monthly payment plan and in total they spend over $100/month, which is a lot of money according to my friend's husband. I could see the pride in the bike fade from his face. I was prettty shocked they couldn't afford to buy the $1,700 bike outright given their salaries. A few months prior they bought a Big Green Egg, outdoor patio furniture set, and an outdoor propane heater. My friend voluntarily worked overtime to pay for it all, but not the husband because she wanted that stuff, not him. They don't spend much time with their kids as it is. It baffles me that they choose to work more hours to afford things they don't need, and to afford the nanny and maid that are hired to assist with childcare and housekeeping duties because the couple works too many hours. They know about my FIRE plans, and don't think it's for them because they think they'd get bored drinking martinis all day.

[dcheesi]

Not my relatives, but close friends: My friend bought a < $2K Peloton bike for her husband. They're upper middle class, workaholics, spend a lot of what they earn, and contribute the bare minimum to their retirement accounts. They're flashy people who like to put on a show for others. Anyway, my friend's husband is showing me all the online features of the Peloton bike. He remarks that the online features are free. The wife corrects him. It's not free. Husband is taken aback, asks how much they are paying per month. My friend is uncomfortable, but eventually admits the bike is on a monthly payment plan and in total they spend over $100/month, which is a lot of money according to my friend's husband. I could see the pride in the bike fade from his face. I was prettty shocked they couldn't afford to buy the $1,700 bike outright given their salaries. A few months prior they bought a Big Green Egg, outdoor patio furniture set, and an outdoor propane heater. My friend voluntarily worked overtime to pay for it all, but not the husband because she wanted that stuff, not him. They don't spend much time with their kids as it is. It baffles me that they choose to work more hours to afford things they don't need, and to afford the nanny and maid that are hired to assist with childcare and housekeeping duties because the couple works too many hours. They know about my FIRE plans, and don't think it's for them because they think they'd get bored drinking martinis all day.

The crazy thing about Peloton is that they charge way too much for the equipment, and then they also charge a monthly "membership" fee for the online content! So even if they did pay outright for the bike, they'd still be paying something every month.

Given that, it probably seemed more convenient to put the whole purchase on the monthly plan (and tbf, it looks like the payment plan doesn't extract much of a premium vs. the up-front purchase price).

[ysette9]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing. 

[DadJokes]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

[Kris]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

[SwordGuy]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

At times like this I say things like, "What part of " -- enunciate the next part word by word, very distinctly -- "'we are not interested' did you not understand?"

[Adventine]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

Some people don't know how to express their enthusiasm in any other way ;)

[ixtap]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

Some people don't know how to express their enthusiasm in any other way ;)

DH has a high school friend who is the only one to reach out and keep up with him. But he lives in a different world. We couldn't convince him we didn't actually have reliable internet service when he first got excited about Alexa, so no, it wasn't (and still isn't) something we are interested in.

[PDXTabs]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

Some people don't know how to express their enthusiasm in any other way ;)

I can be a little bit like this when I find a new product. Recently I discovered umbrellas (they aren't really in use in the PNW). So now I tell everyone I meet how awesome it is to own an umbrella. Guilty as charged.

[Taran Wanderer]

Yeah, the PNW is funny about umbrellas. If it’s not windy, it’s usually not raining hard enough to justify an umbrella just to get from point A to point B, though they can be useful for a soccer game or something where you’re outside for hours. If it truly is raining hard enough for an umbrella to be useful, it’s usually blowing sideways and A) the umbrella doesn’t keep you dry, and B) you might not have an intact umbrella by the time you make it from the car to your destination.

[PDXTabs]

Yeah, the PNW is funny about umbrellas. If it’s not windy, it’s usually not raining hard enough to justify an umbrella just to get from point A to point B, though they can be useful for a soccer game or something where you’re outside for hours. If it truly is raining hard enough for an umbrella to be useful, it’s usually blowing sideways and A) the umbrella doesn’t keep you dry, and B) you might not have an intact umbrella by the time you make it from the car to your destination.

That's certainly the story that I grew up with. But I've been paying attention lately and while it is true that sometimes it is too windy to use one, most of the time I can. However, I am doing some of those long outdoor activities (well, walking). But I've absolutely been in a downpour in the last month holding my umbrella with no wind to speak of in SE Portland.

[ysette9]

I lived in Bretagne in France for a year that has climate similar to the PNW and people definitely didn’t use umbrellas there also. I got the sense they were deeply uncool.

[Morning Glory]

Yeah, the PNW is funny about umbrellas. If it’s not windy, it’s usually not raining hard enough to justify an umbrella just to get from point A to point B, though they can be useful for a soccer game or something where you’re outside for hours. If it truly is raining hard enough for an umbrella to be useful, it’s usually blowing sideways and A) the umbrella doesn’t keep you dry, and B) you might not have an intact umbrella by the time you make it from the car to your destination.

That's certainly the story that I grew up with. But I've been paying attention lately and while it is true that sometimes it is too windy to use one, most of the time I can. However, I am doing some of those long outdoor activities (well, walking). But I've absolutely been in a downpour in the last month holding my umbrella with no wind to speak of in SE Portland.

I'm in one of the windiest places in the US and I bought an umbrella with vents so that the wind can pass through but not water. (that's after wearing out two cheap ones because they kept turning inside out). If it's that bad out it only keeps my head and shoulders dry though. Sometimes I use my umbrella as a shield while walking so my face doesn't get pummeled with rain/sleet.

[swaneesr]

I had no idea umbrellas were cool or not cool.

When traveling to Singapore there was often an after lunch major rain storm.

My umbrella always seemed to get left with my PC backpack……and not with me at the hawker stand for lunch.

Umbrellas don’t work for me because apparently I am unable to keep it close when needed.

As far as being cool?  Ask my wife, I am definitely not the cool one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ysette9]

After being here in the PNW and upgrading our outdoor gear I begin to understand why people here don’t do umbrellas. You don’t need them much if your gear is good. And with little kids I often don’t have a spare hand available to hold Yet Another Thing.

[Sugaree]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

So....did anyone have "Adopting a baby" on the my-brother-is-an-idiot-and-my-parents-enable-it bingo card? 

My brother and SIL have adopted a newborn.  While still living with my mom and dad.  Adoption wasn't exactly unexpected because SIL has always talked about wanting to adopt and they'd gone through some of the initial steps and foster parent classes before they moved in with mom and dad.  But I thought that they'd at least have tried to get their shit together before doing it.  And they convinced both my parents and a social worker to go along with it.  The plan now seems to be that they will live with mom and dad indefinitely.  Dad seems to think that in a year or two they will need more space, but I don't think it's going to work out like that.  I suspect that this isn't how they pictured spending their retirement.  At least mom isn't expected to be the full time nanny as was my first fear when they sprung the news on me four days before the baby came home from the hospital.

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen. 

[zolotiyeruki]

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

Inopportune, perhaps.  But at least you normally have several months' warning...

[six-car-habit]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

So....did anyone have "Adopting a baby" on the my-brother-is-an-idiot-and-my-parents-enable-it bingo card? 

My brother and SIL have adopted a newborn.  While still living with my mom and dad.  Adoption wasn't exactly unexpected because SIL has always talked about wanting to adopt and they'd gone through some of the initial steps and foster parent classes before they moved in with mom and dad.  But I thought that they'd at least have tried to get their shit together before doing it.  And they convinced both my parents and a social worker to go along with it.  The plan now seems to be that they will live with mom and dad indefinitely.  Dad seems to think that in a year or two they will need more space, but I don't think it's going to work out like that.  I suspect that this isn't how they pictured spending their retirement.  At least mom isn't expected to be the full time nanny as was my first fear when they sprung the news on me four days before the baby came home from the hospital.

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

   How long has your brother lived away from Mom and Dads house in his life?  I'd think this would give a good idea on how long they are likely to stay. Hopefully your Dad has a garage to retreat to, as i imagine the more space they need will come out of the existing footprint. And you may get to hear about remodeling and additions grafted to the house in the future with your parents footing the bill.  But maybe the child will be the impetus for them to get their own rental place ?    Was the 0% credit card supposed to help with increased expenses ?

    In may be similar to my Dad's 2nd wife's Son. Lived in their house till age 40+, the last 14 yrs including his wife and 2 kids. They did have a period of almost 2 years where they were renting elsewhere, in a deceased relatives house before it was sold to settle the estate. Then back to Dad/2nd wife's house where they  filled the basement with clothes worn only once by the kids and themselves, according to Dads telling.
   Supposedly they paid no rent and covered only the cable bill sporadically, and some food.  They had money for decent cars and ski trips though...

   There was talk of expanding the footprint of the house-or finishing the basement and adding a bathroom with Dad paying because no-one else had $.  Eventually stepbrother took a job out of state, entry level, with an employer paid training/certification period.  Somehow within a year of being in the new location, with his wife working part-time, they could afford a brand new 5 br/ 3 ba house !!
   Dad has since complained about how his 401K manager should have warned him there would be a big tax hit, because he pulled ~ 150K out of his account which went toward the house down payment, a moving company, and paying off some daughter-in-law school loans.  This represents about 15% of dad's retirement assets, besides Social security, and a small paid off house.  At least they moved out-of-state within a year of dad retiring, at 72, so Dad and 2nd wife get some space back.
   

[SunnyDays]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

So....did anyone have "Adopting a baby" on the my-brother-is-an-idiot-and-my-parents-enable-it bingo card? 

My brother and SIL have adopted a newborn.  While still living with my mom and dad.  Adoption wasn't exactly unexpected because SIL has always talked about wanting to adopt and they'd gone through some of the initial steps and foster parent classes before they moved in with mom and dad.  But I thought that they'd at least have tried to get their shit together before doing it.  And they convinced both my parents and a social worker to go along with it.  The plan now seems to be that they will live with mom and dad indefinitely.  Dad seems to think that in a year or two they will need more space, but I don't think it's going to work out like that.  I suspect that this isn't how they pictured spending their retirement.  At least mom isn't expected to be the full time nanny as was my first fear when they sprung the news on me four days before the baby came home from the hospital.

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

   How long has your brother lived away from Mom and Dads house in his life?  I'd think this would give a good idea on how long they are likely to stay. Hopefully your Dad has a garage to retreat to, as i imagine the more space they need will come out of the existing footprint. And you may get to hear about remodeling and additions grafted to the house in the future with your parents footing the bill.  But maybe the child will be the impetus for them to get their own rental place ?    Was the 0% credit card supposed to help with increased expenses ?

    In may be similar to my Dad's 2nd wife's Son. Lived in their house till age 40+, the last 14 yrs including his wife and 2 kids. They did have a period of almost 2 years where they were renting elsewhere, in a deceased relatives house before it was sold to settle the estate. Then back to Dad/2nd wife's house where they  filled the basement with clothes worn only once by the kids and themselves, according to Dads telling.
   Supposedly they paid no rent and covered only the cable bill sporadically, and some food.  They had money for decent cars and ski trips though...

   There was talk of expanding the footprint of the house-or finishing the basement and adding a bathroom with Dad paying because no-one else had $.  Eventually stepbrother took a job out of state, entry level, with an employer paid training/certification period.  Somehow within a year of being in the new location, with his wife working part-time, they could afford a brand new 5 br/ 3 ba house !!
   Dad has since complained about how his 401K manager should have warned him there would be a big tax hit, because he pulled ~ 150K out of his account which went toward the house down payment, a moving company, and paying off some daughter-in-law school loans.  This represents about 15% of dad's retirement assets, besides Social security, and a small paid off house.  At least they moved out-of-state within a year of dad retiring, at 72, so Dad and 2nd wife get some space back.
   

Wow, you would think that your parents just have no say in the matter.

[sonofsven]

This thread is going to blow up next week

[Sugaree]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

So....did anyone have "Adopting a baby" on the my-brother-is-an-idiot-and-my-parents-enable-it bingo card? 

My brother and SIL have adopted a newborn.  While still living with my mom and dad.  Adoption wasn't exactly unexpected because SIL has always talked about wanting to adopt and they'd gone through some of the initial steps and foster parent classes before they moved in with mom and dad.  But I thought that they'd at least have tried to get their shit together before doing it.  And they convinced both my parents and a social worker to go along with it.  The plan now seems to be that they will live with mom and dad indefinitely.  Dad seems to think that in a year or two they will need more space, but I don't think it's going to work out like that.  I suspect that this isn't how they pictured spending their retirement.  At least mom isn't expected to be the full time nanny as was my first fear when they sprung the news on me four days before the baby came home from the hospital.

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

   How long has your brother lived away from Mom and Dads house in his life?  I'd think this would give a good idea on how long they are likely to stay. Hopefully your Dad has a garage to retreat to, as i imagine the more space they need will come out of the existing footprint. And you may get to hear about remodeling and additions grafted to the house in the future with your parents footing the bill.  But maybe the child will be the impetus for them to get their own rental place ?    Was the 0% credit card supposed to help with increased expenses ?

    In may be similar to my Dad's 2nd wife's Son. Lived in their house till age 40+, the last 14 yrs including his wife and 2 kids. They did have a period of almost 2 years where they were renting elsewhere, in a deceased relatives house before it was sold to settle the estate. Then back to Dad/2nd wife's house where they  filled the basement with clothes worn only once by the kids and themselves, according to Dads telling.
   Supposedly they paid no rent and covered only the cable bill sporadically, and some food.  They had money for decent cars and ski trips though...

   There was talk of expanding the footprint of the house-or finishing the basement and adding a bathroom with Dad paying because no-one else had $.  Eventually stepbrother took a job out of state, entry level, with an employer paid training/certification period.  Somehow within a year of being in the new location, with his wife working part-time, they could afford a brand new 5 br/ 3 ba house !!
   Dad has since complained about how his 401K manager should have warned him there would be a big tax hit, because he pulled ~ 150K out of his account which went toward the house down payment, a moving company, and paying off some daughter-in-law school loans.  This represents about 15% of dad's retirement assets, besides Social security, and a small paid off house.  At least they moved out-of-state within a year of dad retiring, at 72, so Dad and 2nd wife get some space back.
 

The tl;dr version of the story is that he moves out for college, then moved back in when he graduated (to be fair, there weren't a whole lot of PR jobs available in 2008).  He lived at home for 7-8 years before buying a house and getting married.  He and his wife lived in his house for awhile untill they moved back into mom and dad's (and brought their roommate and 4 dogs) maybe a year ago because they were financed to the hilt and were going to have trouble making payments soon.  They've got tenants in their house helping with that payment. I hope that they are getting it together, but to be honest I've seen very little evidence that this is happening. 

Dad seems to believe that they will move out in about 2 years when they need the space, but mom is pretty sure they'll be there forever (he'll inherit the house anyway).  There have been some renovations to the upstairs area where they live, but my brother has been paying for them.  How?  Who knows.  I do get the idea that the 0% card was supposed to help them dig out, but like I said, I grew up watching my parents do that every couple of years only to find themselves right back in the hole.  Thank god they both have government pensions.

I'm the first to admit that mom and dad have helped me out tremendously over the years.  I didn't get where I am on my own.  I'd like to think that most of the time I tried to not make it worse.

[Plina]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

[brandon4454]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

So....did anyone have "Adopting a baby" on the my-brother-is-an-idiot-and-my-parents-enable-it bingo card? 

My brother and SIL have adopted a newborn.  While still living with my mom and dad.  Adoption wasn't exactly unexpected because SIL has always talked about wanting to adopt and they'd gone through some of the initial steps and foster parent classes before they moved in with mom and dad.  But I thought that they'd at least have tried to get their shit together before doing it.  And they convinced both my parents and a social worker to go along with it.  The plan now seems to be that they will live with mom and dad indefinitely.  Dad seems to think that in a year or two they will need more space, but I don't think it's going to work out like that.  I suspect that this isn't how they pictured spending their retirement.  At least mom isn't expected to be the full time nanny as was my first fear when they sprung the news on me four days before the baby came home from the hospital.

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

   How long has your brother lived away from Mom and Dads house in his life?  I'd think this would give a good idea on how long they are likely to stay. Hopefully your Dad has a garage to retreat to, as i imagine the more space they need will come out of the existing footprint. And you may get to hear about remodeling and additions grafted to the house in the future with your parents footing the bill.  But maybe the child will be the impetus for them to get their own rental place ?    Was the 0% credit card supposed to help with increased expenses ?

    In may be similar to my Dad's 2nd wife's Son. Lived in their house till age 40+, the last 14 yrs including his wife and 2 kids. They did have a period of almost 2 years where they were renting elsewhere, in a deceased relatives house before it was sold to settle the estate. Then back to Dad/2nd wife's house where they  filled the basement with clothes worn only once by the kids and themselves, according to Dads telling.
   Supposedly they paid no rent and covered only the cable bill sporadically, and some food.  They had money for decent cars and ski trips though...

   There was talk of expanding the footprint of the house-or finishing the basement and adding a bathroom with Dad paying because no-one else had $.  Eventually stepbrother took a job out of state, entry level, with an employer paid training/certification period.  Somehow within a year of being in the new location, with his wife working part-time, they could afford a brand new 5 br/ 3 ba house !!
   Dad has since complained about how his 401K manager should have warned him there would be a big tax hit, because he pulled ~ 150K out of his account which went toward the house down payment, a moving company, and paying off some daughter-in-law school loans.  This represents about 15% of dad's retirement assets, besides Social security, and a small paid off house.  At least they moved out-of-state within a year of dad retiring, at 72, so Dad and 2nd wife get some space back.
 

The tl;dr version of the story is that he moves out for college, then moved back in when he graduated (to be fair, there weren't a whole lot of PR jobs available in 2008).  He lived at home for 7-8 years before buying a house and getting married.  He and his wife lived in his house for awhile untill they moved back into mom and dad's (and brought their roommate and 4 dogs) maybe a year ago because they were financed to the hilt and were going to have trouble making payments soon.  They've got tenants in their house helping with that payment. I hope that they are getting it together, but to be honest I've seen very little evidence that this is happening. 

Dad seems to believe that they will move out in about 2 years when they need the space, but mom is pretty sure they'll be there forever (he'll inherit the house anyway).  There have been some renovations to the upstairs area where they live, but my brother has been paying for them.  How?  Who knows.  I do get the idea that the 0% card was supposed to help them dig out, but like I said, I grew up watching my parents do that every couple of years only to find themselves right back in the hole.  Thank god they both have government pensions.

I'm the first to admit that mom and dad have helped me out tremendously over the years.  I didn't get where I am on my own.  I'd like to think that most of the time I tried to not make it worse.

In the Millionaire Next Door, The author warns how "economic outpatient" care leads to poor parents and dependent adult children. Don't get me wrong. There was a year or so when I came back home because I was flat broke and needed a home to stay in while I saved up money, but I was single, working on a master's, and gone most of the day working. However, in less wealthy countries there is a family house where old, middle aged, and young all live. That is just a tough situation.

[six-car-habit]

The tl;dr version of the story is that he moves out for college, then moved back in when he graduated (to be fair, there weren't a whole lot of PR jobs available in 2008).  He lived at home for 7-8 years before buying a house and getting married.  He and his wife lived in his house for awhile untill they moved back into mom and dad's (and brought their roommate and 4 dogs) maybe a year ago because they were financed to the hilt and were going to have trouble making payments soon.  They've got tenants in their house helping with that payment. I hope that they are getting it together, but to be honest I've seen very little evidence that this is happening. 

Dad seems to believe that they will move out in about 2 years when they need the space, but mom is pretty sure they'll be there forever (he'll inherit the house anyway).  There have been some renovations to the upstairs area where they live, but my brother has been paying for them.  How?  Who knows.  I do get the idea that the 0% card was supposed to help them dig out, but like I said, I grew up watching my parents do that every couple of years only to find themselves right back in the hole.  Thank god they both have government pensions.

I'm the first to admit that mom and dad have helped me out tremendously over the years.  I didn't get where I am on my own.  I'd like to think that most of the time I tried to not make it worse.

  I take it your brother and SIL are way upside down on the house, negative equity ? .   Why else would you rent out your primary residence, leaving the means of coming up with the majority of the mortgage      { usually the main financial obligation } to renters.  Unless they hated the house, - it seems more sensible to rent out a bedroom to bring in more $$ -  than completely leave the residence.

 After a decade+ of trying to steer my Dad toward better financial / relationship / boundary decisions regarding stepbrother + 2nd wife, i realized i wasn't gaining any ground.  In retrospect, maybe dad actually got out of the shared living situation relatively cheaply by giving the big cash infusion. Although maybe now it transitions from economic Inpatient care to economic Outpatient care ?

 

[DadJokes]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

[MyOtherBrotherDarryl]

I'm only halfway through this fascinating thread but wanted to add that Neiman Marcus's holiday catalog is out. Anyone feeling stupidly spendy?

CNBC's take:

But an economic divide will still be playing out this holiday season in who can afford to spend lavishly and those who feel like they have little room to spend at all, said Easwar. Some retailers will cater to the big spenders. Their spending along with higher sticker prices will likely mask the drop among financially strapped consumers, he said.

“There are consumers that are looking to spend a lot. And if I spend $5,000 on a trip to Disney and then a few thousand dollars on fancy and expensive gifts for my family, or buy a new car... that’s going to outweigh a host of people who aren’t spending the $700 they might normally spend,” Easwar said.

...

Neiman Marcus, known for its affluent shoppers, puts out an annual holiday catalog that features over-the-top “fantasy” gifts. This year’s copy includes a 30.86-carat diamond, called the Mughal Heart, that’s going for a whopping $6.1 million. Among the listed items is a Moet & Chandon champagne vending machine on sale for $38,000. The department store said it has already sold several.

Lana Todorovich, president and chief merchandising officer at Neiman Marcus, said the company has seen its customers getting a head start on their holiday shopping this year and spending more money per transaction.

From the source:

The 2021 Fantasy Gifts were curated with a focus on celebrating family, traditions, togetherness, and a desire to shift toward a more sustainable lifestyle.

...

First, the VISTA ALEGRE PERSONALIZED DINNERWARE & PORTUGAL TRIP invites customers to explore the rich history, stunning architecture and natural beauty of Portugal all while helping to design your own bespoke fine porcelain place setting for 12 to elevate even the most experienced entertainer's tablescapes ($80,000; pages 82–83). For avid readers and dreamers alike, the LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG DREAMS™ LONDON ADVENTURE will have you and your little ones traveling to London and working closely with author Maria Isabel Sánchez Vegara and the illustrators to cowrite your own inspirational story and turn it into your very own special edition of the Little People, BIG DREAMS™ library ($35,000; pages 90–91)

...

For the forward-thinking explorers, the BARRETT-JACKSON HUMMER EV EDITION 1 makes every drive a journey to remember with this exclusive edition of the world's first fully electric super truck curated by automotive expert and Barrett-Jackson Chairman and CEO Craig Jackson. This Fantasy Gift experience includes VIP access for two to the owner's skybox and the opportunity to "drop the gavel" on the world-famous auction block at the 2022 Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale Auction ($285,000, pages 78–79).

...

And finally, WINTER MAGIC WITH LINDSEY VONN AT CALDERA HOUSE embodies the chicness of après ski at Jackson Hole's premier luxury hotel and the excitement of hitting the slopes with international champion skier Lindsey Vonn with five of your closest friends, all in one unparalleled mountaintop experience ($235,000; pages 84–85).

There's more. So much more. I'm not sure we'd even spend the $700 quoted at the top, even though we can "afford" to do so, so the idea that people willingly burn many thousands of dollars on stuff they don't need blows my mind.

Black Friday begins tomorrow. Enjoy that personalized Champagne vending machine. Happy (American) Thanksgiving, my friends.

[Metalcat]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

[RetiredAt63]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

[SwordGuy]

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

The harvest was in, food was plentiful, didn't need to tend to the crops for a bit, winter hasn't started yet, so it's the perfect time for a big family get-together in an agricultural society.

[Metalcat]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

I never really thought much about it, but yeah, that would be intensely stressful!

[Kris]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

I never really thought much about it, but yeah, that would be intensely stressful!

Yeah, the six weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years kind of sucks, to be honest. It is supposed to be festive, but it’s really just a bloated fest of consumerism. Do not like.

[Valley of Plenty]

Yeah, the six weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years kind of sucks, to be honest. It is supposed to be festive, but it’s really just a bloated fest of consumerism. Do not like.

"Its the most wonderful time of the year!"

[RetiredAt63]

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

The harvest was in, food was plentiful, didn't need to tend to the crops for a bit, winter hasn't started yet, so it's the perfect time for a big family get-together in an agricultural society.

Exactly - early October!     ;-)  Of course for those further south . . . . . .

[JoePublic3.14]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

Yeah, I’m with you. I get it a bit….it’s family, but I have limits. Pretty sure our immediate neighbor has a deadbeat adult son living with them. Just observing while doing yard work or coming and going, that is how it seems. Hope it’s working for them, but no way I could ever burden my parents by coming home. The only thing sadder to me is when I see people raising their grandchildren.

Lots of layers of complexity and if course an outsider really has no clue what is really going on.

[Dicey]

I used to love the N-M Christmas Catalog, mostly because it was dumbfounding. I haven't seen one in years, and the NM nearest me has shuttered its doors permanently. That being said, we spent two weeks in Moab recently and were absolutely gobsmacked at the number and variety of Off Road Vehicles (ORV's) and the number of trucks designed to haul them. They have an endless variety of towable RV's that accompany or even store the ORV's, hauled by even more trucks. They are like ants everywhere. The number of dollars the whole spectacle represents puts the N-M catalog to shame.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

Yeah, I’m with you. I get it a bit….it’s family, but I have limits. Pretty sure our immediate neighbor has a deadbeat adult son living with them. Just observing while doing yard work or coming and going, that is how it seems. Hope it’s working for them, but no way I could ever burden my parents by coming home. The only thing sadder to me is when I see people raising their grandchildren.

Lots of layers of complexity and if course an outsider really has no clue what is really going on.

Thank you for admitting how much you don't know. Someone might have looked at my family and thought that my parents had a "deadbeat" son living with them, but he was my brother and we loved him and what were they supposed to do? Let him freeze to death the winter his heat was cut off during a cold snap? He did take out the garbage and do some other heavy chores around the house when he was there. It's not that he WOULDN'T live on his own. He was really and truly incapable of jumping through the hoops that you have to jump through to have stable housing and (mental) health care and nutritious food in the American system. (I'm using the past tense because he died last year- the liver is an unforgiving organ.)

That's not to say that economic outpatient care isn't real- I'm sure we could all give examples. But sometimes it's just people who Can't.

[martyconlonontherun]

I'm a pretty big churner because I like to travel. My sister lives in a wealthier community and she has major keeping up with the jones mindset where a lot of people in her group go on fancy family vacations. I help her out signing up for a few cards and how to plan the trip. She has 3 kids which makes it super hard with hotels and wants to go to some place she brag about. They are probably top 10% in earnings but have kids in private school despite being in the states best school district and probably on the lower end of their brand new subdivision.

Spend about 3 hours helping her plan and try to maximize her points despite her specific preferences and her decent size family. Basically got it do she would get a few days in Aruba with her husband on the ocean at a resort and then week in Cancun at an ocean front all inclusive. All for only a few hundred for plane fees since her husband wasn't onboard spending more money.

Talk to her this morning and asked if she booked. She said nah, they wanted nicer hotels so going to book a black Friday 'special' that would be $4-5k on the Cancun resort alone. Like im sure their 8 and 6 year old is really going to know the difference while swimming in the pool from one resort to the other. In five months I'm going to hear the same 'i want to go on a vacation but can't afford speech' and try asking for me to help again after seeing my trips that I'm getting for either free or limited out of pocket (I'm going to Calala Island later this year :) on points as a last hurrah before a second kid attempt)