Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 2707253 times)

CodingHare

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6250 on: January 27, 2021, 10:55:22 AM »
I have also experienced the same thing as a childfree. You become an outsider in many cases when your friends have kids and you donít have. And frankly, some women also become real bores. It seems like they canít keep anything more than their kids in their brain. Some people are still fun to be with and are more than mothers. It is those that you keep in contact with.

It's probably no coincidence that the fun mothers have the fun kids as well! I'm in the process of ending one of my oldest friendships. I'm not cutting ties but I am scaling back on the amount of energy I'm putting into this couple. The only things they can talk about is how HARD it is to be a parent and how brilliant little Timmy is. I'm sure parenting is hard, but I hardly hear anything positive about parenthood from them except for the cleverness of little Timmy. I'm sure he's a smart boy but since he's not talking yet and still throwing around all his food, it's a bit early to talk about how to get him into a selective highschool for gifted kids (I'm not making this up). We reached the point where they didn't even ask me about how I was doing anymore because they simply don't care anymore. I was done.

On the other hand, I also have a friend who lives a few hours away, but her and her kids are so much fun! I'm a big kid at heart too, I don't mind messy homes and coffee tables full of Lego. I'll happily join them. One of the kids actually asked me one day if I was a grownup or a kid. Because I'm pretty big and I don't live with my mummy, but I do like to play and I'm not a mummy myself ...so what are you auntie Imma? We sometimes do activities with their family but I also totally get that they prefer to do some things with friends that also have children, because then the kids can play together.

When I do meet childless women (mostly through work) they are often the Sex and the City type and that's just not my type of person at all. I don't drink wine, I don't go shopping, I don't like trendy things, I don't like make-up, I'm in a long-term relationship, I really don't want to spend my whole weekend in clubs and bars.

Yeah, we're in the stage of life when other couples have started having kids.  It does really change the friendship dynamic--obviously less time together is a big one, but also a lot of couples seem incapable of handing their kids over to babysitters.  So you never see them without their children, which slowly transitions to never seeing them.  I do however have a bunch of friends who are parents, but make sure to carve out non child time for themselves.  Balance makes them interesting people to chat with!

I am a childless woman and I'm not the Sex in the City type, I just know I'd hate having kids until they were about 13 or so.  No judgement for those who want kids--I just never wanted them strongly enough to want to get through the no sleep screeching stages.  Just wanted to provide a counter anecdote.  But I also meet most of my childless friends through hobby groups, so there's a bias towards people with interests that align with mine.  :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6251 on: January 27, 2021, 01:01:09 PM »
Mexico city has fantastic public transit. I was surprised and extremely pleased.
This just triggered a memory. As a young teen, I took a trip to Mexico City with my Girl Scout troop. We thought we were too cool and didn't want to wear our uniforms. Early in the trip, we rode the subway in civilian clothes at rush hour. For most of us California girls, it was our first subway experience and we were thrilled at the novelty. When we got off at our stoop, one of the girls burst into tears. Seems someone in the very crowded car had been pressed up against her and fondling her ass. She was so shocked, she froze and did nothing. We were outraged, because we would have jumped to her defense had she uttered a peep. Thereafter, we all wore our uniforms everywhere and were treated with utmost respect, even in the subway at rush hour. To be fair, this could have happened in lots of places. It was a priceless lesson for us all.
I've had my man parts tickled on the London Underground (The Tube). It was packed, I didn't know who it was, but I hope they enjoyed it. I surely did. There was no place for me to move. Plus I was 22 at the time, early 2000s, an American visiting my then-GF (now wife), didn't want to cause a scene, tried my best at keeping a British stiff upper lip.

Also had my ass grabbed on the NYC Subway. Bizarrely, my wife used The Tube for over 3 years and not a single incident, plus 4 years in Manchester using public transport.

Grabby grabby can happen to anyone, anywhere.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6252 on: January 27, 2021, 02:01:55 PM »
I have also experienced the same thing as a childfree. You become an outsider in many cases when your friends have kids and you donít have. And frankly, some women also become real bores. It seems like they canít keep anything more than their kids in their brain. Some people are still fun to be with and are more than mothers. It is those that you keep in contact with.

It's probably no coincidence that the fun mothers have the fun kids as well! I'm in the process of ending one of my oldest friendships. I'm not cutting ties but I am scaling back on the amount of energy I'm putting into this couple. The only things they can talk about is how HARD it is to be a parent and how brilliant little Timmy is. I'm sure parenting is hard, but I hardly hear anything positive about parenthood from them except for the cleverness of little Timmy. I'm sure he's a smart boy but since he's not talking yet and still throwing around all his food, it's a bit early to talk about how to get him into a selective highschool for gifted kids (I'm not making this up). We reached the point where they didn't even ask me about how I was doing anymore because they simply don't care anymore. I was done.

On the other hand, I also have a friend who lives a few hours away, but her and her kids are so much fun! I'm a big kid at heart too, I don't mind messy homes and coffee tables full of Lego. I'll happily join them. One of the kids actually asked me one day if I was a grownup or a kid. Because I'm pretty big and I don't live with my mummy, but I do like to play and I'm not a mummy myself ...so what are you auntie Imma? We sometimes do activities with their family but I also totally get that they prefer to do some things with friends that also have children, because then the kids can play together.

When I do meet childless women (mostly through work) they are often the Sex and the City type and that's just not my type of person at all. I don't drink wine, I don't go shopping, I don't like trendy things, I don't like make-up, I'm in a long-term relationship, I really don't want to spend my whole weekend in clubs and bars.

Yeah, we're in the stage of life when other couples have started having kids.  It does really change the friendship dynamic--obviously less time together is a big one, but also a lot of couples seem incapable of handing their kids over to babysitters.  So you never see them without their children, which slowly transitions to never seeing them.  I do however have a bunch of friends who are parents, but make sure to carve out non child time for themselves.  Balance makes them interesting people to chat with!

I am a childless woman and I'm not the Sex in the City type, I just know I'd hate having kids until they were about 13 or so.  No judgement for those who want kids--I just never wanted them strongly enough to want to get through the no sleep screeching stages.  Just wanted to provide a counter anecdote.  But I also meet most of my childless friends through hobby groups, so there's a bias towards people with interests that align with mine.  :)

Just out of interests, what kind of groups are you in? I'm in several groups but I'm usually the only non-parent.

TheFrenchCat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6253 on: January 27, 2021, 02:39:32 PM »
I have also experienced the same thing as a childfree. You become an outsider in many cases when your friends have kids and you donít have. And frankly, some women also become real bores. It seems like they canít keep anything more than their kids in their brain. Some people are still fun to be with and are more than mothers. It is those that you keep in contact with.

It's probably no coincidence that the fun mothers have the fun kids as well! I'm in the process of ending one of my oldest friendships. I'm not cutting ties but I am scaling back on the amount of energy I'm putting into this couple. The only things they can talk about is how HARD it is to be a parent and how brilliant little Timmy is. I'm sure parenting is hard, but I hardly hear anything positive about parenthood from them except for the cleverness of little Timmy. I'm sure he's a smart boy but since he's not talking yet and still throwing around all his food, it's a bit early to talk about how to get him into a selective highschool for gifted kids (I'm not making this up). We reached the point where they didn't even ask me about how I was doing anymore because they simply don't care anymore. I was done.

On the other hand, I also have a friend who lives a few hours away, but her and her kids are so much fun! I'm a big kid at heart too, I don't mind messy homes and coffee tables full of Lego. I'll happily join them. One of the kids actually asked me one day if I was a grownup or a kid. Because I'm pretty big and I don't live with my mummy, but I do like to play and I'm not a mummy myself ...so what are you auntie Imma? We sometimes do activities with their family but I also totally get that they prefer to do some things with friends that also have children, because then the kids can play together.

When I do meet childless women (mostly through work) they are often the Sex and the City type and that's just not my type of person at all. I don't drink wine, I don't go shopping, I don't like trendy things, I don't like make-up, I'm in a long-term relationship, I really don't want to spend my whole weekend in clubs and bars.

Yeah, we're in the stage of life when other couples have started having kids.  It does really change the friendship dynamic--obviously less time together is a big one, but also a lot of couples seem incapable of handing their kids over to babysitters.  So you never see them without their children, which slowly transitions to never seeing them.  I do however have a bunch of friends who are parents, but make sure to carve out non child time for themselves.  Balance makes them interesting people to chat with!

I am a childless woman and I'm not the Sex in the City type, I just know I'd hate having kids until they were about 13 or so.  No judgement for those who want kids--I just never wanted them strongly enough to want to get through the no sleep screeching stages.  Just wanted to provide a counter anecdote.  But I also meet most of my childless friends through hobby groups, so there's a bias towards people with interests that align with mine.  :)

Maybe I'm still too young at 31, but I've had the opposite experience-I'm the only one of any of my groups of friends to have a child.  But I like to think I still am interesting to my friends.  And we're super comfortable with babysitters or even going out without my husband.  At least pre-covid that is.  I'm trying to remember and I don't think I've even mentioned my daughter in my friend group's discord chat that we've kept up during the pandemic.  Sorry to hear that some of your friends aren't balancing discussion topics well enough.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6254 on: January 27, 2021, 10:48:04 PM »
I have also experienced the same thing as a childfree. You become an outsider in many cases when your friends have kids and you donít have. And frankly, some women also become real bores. It seems like they canít keep anything more than their kids in their brain. Some people are still fun to be with and are more than mothers. It is those that you keep in contact with.

It's probably no coincidence that the fun mothers have the fun kids as well! I'm in the process of ending one of my oldest friendships. I'm not cutting ties but I am scaling back on the amount of energy I'm putting into this couple. The only things they can talk about is how HARD it is to be a parent and how brilliant little Timmy is. I'm sure parenting is hard, but I hardly hear anything positive about parenthood from them except for the cleverness of little Timmy. I'm sure he's a smart boy but since he's not talking yet and still throwing around all his food, it's a bit early to talk about how to get him into a selective highschool for gifted kids (I'm not making this up). We reached the point where they didn't even ask me about how I was doing anymore because they simply don't care anymore. I was done.

On the other hand, I also have a friend who lives a few hours away, but her and her kids are so much fun! I'm a big kid at heart too, I don't mind messy homes and coffee tables full of Lego. I'll happily join them. One of the kids actually asked me one day if I was a grownup or a kid. Because I'm pretty big and I don't live with my mummy, but I do like to play and I'm not a mummy myself ...so what are you auntie Imma? We sometimes do activities with their family but I also totally get that they prefer to do some things with friends that also have children, because then the kids can play together.

When I do meet childless women (mostly through work) they are often the Sex and the City type and that's just not my type of person at all. I don't drink wine, I don't go shopping, I don't like trendy things, I don't like make-up, I'm in a long-term relationship, I really don't want to spend my whole weekend in clubs and bars.

Yeah, we're in the stage of life when other couples have started having kids.  It does really change the friendship dynamic--obviously less time together is a big one, but also a lot of couples seem incapable of handing their kids over to babysitters.  So you never see them without their children, which slowly transitions to never seeing them.  I do however have a bunch of friends who are parents, but make sure to carve out non child time for themselves.  Balance makes them interesting people to chat with!

I am a childless woman and I'm not the Sex in the City type, I just know I'd hate having kids until they were about 13 or so.  No judgement for those who want kids--I just never wanted them strongly enough to want to get through the no sleep screeching stages.  Just wanted to provide a counter anecdote.  But I also meet most of my childless friends through hobby groups, so there's a bias towards people with interests that align with mine.  :)

Maybe I'm still too young at 31, but I've had the opposite experience-I'm the only one of any of my groups of friends to have a child.  But I like to think I still am interesting to my friends.  And we're super comfortable with babysitters or even going out without my husband.  At least pre-covid that is.  I'm trying to remember and I don't think I've even mentioned my daughter in my friend group's discord chat that we've kept up during the pandemic.  Sorry to hear that some of your friends aren't balancing discussion topics well enough.

Seems like you are one of those parents that have not given up their life totally to their small miracles. I had a former colleague that pointed out that he tries to limit talk about his kid at work because he know how boring it can get. On the other hand, I have now colleagues who brings up the kids daily in some form. I know more about the kids health and life then you ever wish to know. I donít mind the amusing stories but it is a bit to much.

Abundant life

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6255 on: January 27, 2021, 10:49:12 PM »
Mexico city has fantastic public transit. I was surprised and extremely pleased.
This just triggered a memory. As a young teen, I took a trip to Mexico City with my Girl Scout troop. We thought we were too cool and didn't want to wear our uniforms. Early in the trip, we rode the subway in civilian clothes at rush hour. For most of us California girls, it was our first subway experience and we were thrilled at the novelty. When we got off at our stoop, one of the girls burst into tears. Seems someone in the very crowded car had been pressed up against her and fondling her ass. She was so shocked, she froze and did nothing. We were outraged, because we would have jumped to her defense had she uttered a peep. Thereafter, we all wore our uniforms everywhere and were treated with utmost respect, even in the subway at rush hour. To be fair, this could have happened in lots of places. It was a priceless lesson for us all.
I've had my man parts tickled on the London Underground (The Tube). It was packed, I didn't know who it was, but I hope they enjoyed it. I surely did. There was no place for me to move. Plus I was 22 at the time, early 2000s, an American visiting my then-GF (now wife), didn't want to cause a scene, tried my best at keeping a British stiff upper lip.

Also had my ass grabbed on the NYC Subway. Bizarrely, my wife used The Tube for over 3 years and not a single incident, plus 4 years in Manchester using public transport.

Grabby grabby can happen to anyone, anywhere.
I've been on the trains and the buses that run on tracks in Mexico City. They are great if you can get a seat! However I was given strict instructions for traveling on them by the Mexican in-laws.
Women at the front of the carriage - if men loiter there the old women will hit them. Men at the back. If a woman is in the back she is fair game. When I had to travel in the back of a crowded carriage my two grown sons put me in a corner and stood in front of me to box me in.

PMG

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6256 on: January 28, 2021, 05:47:04 AM »

Grabby grabby can happen to anyone, anywhere.

That doesnít make it ok or a less than awful experience.

I am sorry it happened to you, too.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 09:32:04 AM by PMG »

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6257 on: January 28, 2021, 09:14:40 AM »
Dicey, your retirement communities sound like a small town. Unfortunately in our much smaller metro area thatís not the case. Without transportation you canít get anywhere without a very expensive uber ride. It takes 20-30 minutes just to get out of all the subdivisions to the main road.  I may always drive but I am planning for if I cannot. I can see the allure where you live. I have looked to see what they offer.

CodingHare

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6258 on: January 29, 2021, 02:08:44 PM »
Just out of interests, what kind of groups are you in? I'm in several groups but I'm usually the only non-parent.

Knitting, board games, and outdoosy things like camping and hiking.  The first two are the main social ones right now since they adapt well to being done online, and the last two is mostly just my SO and I right now.  We would like to get into the some organized hikes post-COVID.

The first two there's a good mix of parents and non-parents, and that  might just be me being lucky.  But the parents are also making an effort to carve out those things as non-kid time, so it really evens out.  (We do chat about their kids, but it isn't the dominating topic.)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6259 on: January 29, 2021, 02:41:32 PM »
My next door neighbor's garbage container, at the end of the driveway, fell over due to wind shortly after the garbage truck emptied it. The neighbor has two sons in their mid 20's who live there and last I knew don't pay rent. One of the 'boys' left the house a little while ago and just drove around the garbage container. Couldn't be bothered to pick it up and bring it to the top of the driveway. His father came home from work a while later and dragged it up.

I just can't believe how lazy this kid is! The kid that drove around the container doesn't have a 'real' job but makes money with scrap metal or something like that. The other kid seems to have seasonal employment in the summer and doesn't seem to work in the winter. Both are home all day long and neither can walk to the bottom of the driveway? OMG!

This is not a relative but they sure do NOT get it!


Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6260 on: January 29, 2021, 03:18:24 PM »
Just out of interests, what kind of groups are you in? I'm in several groups but I'm usually the only non-parent.

Knitting, board games, and outdoosy things like camping and hiking.  The first two are the main social ones right now since they adapt well to being done online, and the last two is mostly just my SO and I right now.  We would like to get into the some organized hikes post-COVID.

The first two there's a good mix of parents and non-parents, and that  might just be me being lucky.  But the parents are also making an effort to carve out those things as non-kid time, so it really evens out.  (We do chat about their kids, but it isn't the dominating topic.)

I planned to join organized hiking trips last summer after moving to a new place but that got postponed due to covid as most of those places required going by public transport.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6261 on: January 29, 2021, 04:11:56 PM »
Just out of interests, what kind of groups are you in? I'm in several groups but I'm usually the only non-parent.

Knitting, board games, and outdoosy things like camping and hiking.  The first two are the main social ones right now since they adapt well to being done online, and the last two is mostly just my SO and I right now.  We would like to get into the some organized hikes post-COVID.

The first two there's a good mix of parents and non-parents, and that  might just be me being lucky.  But the parents are also making an effort to carve out those things as non-kid time, so it really evens out.  (We do chat about their kids, but it isn't the dominating topic.)

I planned to join organized hiking trips last summer after moving to a new place but that got postponed due to covid as most of those places required going by public transport.

In all the craft groups I'm in I'm the only non-parent! I don't mind, but it's always awkward at first, because when people find out you don't have children they will start to ask when you are going to have children. That stops eventually, after explaining it half a dozen times or more. Most do indeed go there for an 'evening out' but obviously, for parents, their children are what they care about most. So they do end up talking about them a fair amount even though they try not to. Most group members also mainly make projects for their children. I don't blame them at all,  if I had children maybe I would be the same, but I am trying to meet people who live a life more similar to my own.

I have health issues so anything physical/outdoorsy in groups is out of the question for me unfortunately.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6262 on: January 30, 2021, 12:33:51 AM »
Just out of interests, what kind of groups are you in? I'm in several groups but I'm usually the only non-parent.

Knitting, board games, and outdoosy things like camping and hiking.  The first two are the main social ones right now since they adapt well to being done online, and the last two is mostly just my SO and I right now.  We would like to get into the some organized hikes post-COVID.

The first two there's a good mix of parents and non-parents, and that  might just be me being lucky.  But the parents are also making an effort to carve out those things as non-kid time, so it really evens out.  (We do chat about their kids, but it isn't the dominating topic.)

I planned to join organized hiking trips last summer after moving to a new place but that got postponed due to covid as most of those places required going by public transport.

In all the craft groups I'm in I'm the only non-parent! I don't mind, but it's always awkward at first, because when people find out you don't have children they will start to ask when you are going to have children. That stops eventually, after explaining it half a dozen times or more. Most do indeed go there for an 'evening out' but obviously, for parents, their children are what they care about most. So they do end up talking about them a fair amount even though they try not to. Most group members also mainly make projects for their children. I don't blame them at all,  if I had children maybe I would be the same, but I am trying to meet people who live a life more similar to my own.

I have health issues so anything physical/outdoorsy in groups is out of the question for me unfortunately.

And they donít even understand how rude it is to ask when someone is going to have children. Why would you have to explain something as private to a stranger you just met. There are people that really want to have children but are unable. I never ask if people have children as I figure they will tell me when they want. I would NEVER ask someone when they are going to have children as there might be many different reason for them to not have or being unable to have.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6263 on: January 30, 2021, 03:22:21 AM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6264 on: January 30, 2021, 06:17:15 AM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6265 on: January 30, 2021, 04:22:36 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes!  I have had 2 miscarriages, and unexplained infertility, and no children (yet...hopefully).  In a simple social situation, I'll gloss over it.  But if I know the people at all, I have decided to be open if the social situation calls for it (I'm past the point where I tear up about it right now).  And being open about it gets the word out there that this happens, sometimes leads to interesting and heartfelt conversations, and can get people who ask people about having kids when they shouldn't to...maybe...reconsider doing that in the future.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6266 on: January 30, 2021, 05:10:43 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6267 on: January 30, 2021, 05:23:34 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.

I'm so sorry all of you had to go through that. I can't imagine how heartbreaking that must be. First the secret excitement about a pregnancy, then a massive loss, and one you're not "supposed" to share with other people.

I'm also open about it to friends and acquintances (and tried to with family, but that's a complicated story). I have never tried to get pregnant at all, but for medical reasons I was strongly advised not to have children. We have decided that we are going to follow that advice. It's very sad of course, but since I have known this since I was 17, and was open about it to my partner from the beginning, it's not such an acute heartbreak. It's more a lingering sadness. It's very different from trying to get pregnant and it just doesn't happen, or worse, suffering from a miscarriage or a stillbirth, I think.

When I do tell people, very often women try to reassure me and tell me to be patient, who knows what may happen, they fell pregnant after x years of trying, and I always tell them I'm very happy for them, but that's not the situation I'm in. Unless a miracule drug is invented, well, today or tomorrow, there's no way my health would improve so much and so fast that I'd be able to get pregnant in time before my fertility clock runs out - assuming I am fertile, which isn't a certainty for women with my illness either. Actually, falling pregnant is my biggest fear. I don't think I'd be able to end a pregnancy, but it would be a major risk for my own health and that of the baby.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6268 on: January 30, 2021, 07:09:23 PM »
DW had a miscarriage between our first and second (and in hindsight, probably before our first, also.)  it was very sad and stressful even though we found out at about 10 weeks from the ultrasound. It was amazing and reassuring to find out how many other people have miscarriages, but it isnít often talked about with young prospective parents.

We know people who have struggled to carry a baby to term through multiple miscarriages. My heart goes out to those who struggle with this. The hope, the loss, and that cycle again and again. We feel very fortunate to have only gone through that once (or maybe twice).

Engineer93

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6269 on: February 17, 2021, 05:32:28 AM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother, who told me he makes "between $32k and $37k a year" just bought a house for $215k and then put over $60k renovations into it.  The transmission in his car just blew and he was thinking about buying a new f150 but thankfully decided to just fix the transmission.  He said he is now waiting to get a new f150 or f250 when he receives a raise.  Thankfully my girlfriend is not like this at all.

Well, the time has come and brother-in-law has received a "30% raise" and is now planning to buy a new truck.  For his sake I am hoping the dealership does not approve him for financing, but I know they will take every customer they can get.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6270 on: February 17, 2021, 07:51:39 AM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother [...]
[...] brother-in-law [...]
Congrats on your marriage!

Yeah, 30% raise sounds awesome but applied to a ~$35k salary means he's still only around $45-50k or so now. Not exactly the threshold at which most of us here would start looking at lifestyle inflation.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6271 on: February 18, 2021, 05:52:28 AM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother, who told me he makes "between $32k and $37k a year" just bought a house for $215k and then put over $60k renovations into it.  The transmission in his car just blew and he was thinking about buying a new f150 but thankfully decided to just fix the transmission.  He said he is now waiting to get a new f150 or f250 when he receives a raise.  Thankfully my girlfriend is not like this at all.

Well, the time has come and brother-in-law has received a "30% raise" and is now planning to buy a new truck.  For his sake I am hoping the dealership does not approve him for financing, but I know they will take every customer they can get.

They'll definitely approve him. The worse his credit rating, the higher the interest rate.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6272 on: February 18, 2021, 09:09:58 PM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother, who told me he makes "between $32k and $37k a year" just bought a house for $215k and then put over $60k renovations into it.  The transmission in his car just blew and he was thinking about buying a new f150 but thankfully decided to just fix the transmission.  He said he is now waiting to get a new f150 or f250 when he receives a raise.  Thankfully my girlfriend is not like this at all.

Well, the time has come and brother-in-law has received a "30% raise" and is now planning to buy a new truck.  For his sake I am hoping the dealership does not approve him for financing, but I know they will take every customer they can get.

They'll definitely approve him. The worse his credit rating, the higher the interest rate.

Win-win...or something like that.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6273 on: March 01, 2021, 03:49:57 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.

I'm so sorry all of you had to go through that. I can't imagine how heartbreaking that must be. First the secret excitement about a pregnancy, then a massive loss, and one you're not "supposed" to share with other people.

I'm also open about it to friends and acquintances (and tried to with family, but that's a complicated story). I have never tried to get pregnant at all, but for medical reasons I was strongly advised not to have children. We have decided that we are going to follow that advice. It's very sad of course, but since I have known this since I was 17, and was open about it to my partner from the beginning, it's not such an acute heartbreak. It's more a lingering sadness. It's very different from trying to get pregnant and it just doesn't happen, or worse, suffering from a miscarriage or a stillbirth, I think.

When I do tell people, very often women try to reassure me and tell me to be patient, who knows what may happen, they fell pregnant after x years of trying, and I always tell them I'm very happy for them, but that's not the situation I'm in. Unless a miracule drug is invented, well, today or tomorrow, there's no way my health would improve so much and so fast that I'd be able to get pregnant in time before my fertility clock runs out - assuming I am fertile, which isn't a certainty for women with my illness either. Actually, falling pregnant is my biggest fear. I don't think I'd be able to end a pregnancy, but it would be a major risk for my own health and that of the baby.
Iím sorry you are in the situation of not being able to have something you might have wanted.

I also had two miscarriages in the second trimester, so far enough along that it was a surprise and fairly rare. I felt so shocked at the first one because people donít talk about this stuff so I didnít know it was a possibility.
I also struggled with infertility with subsequent pregnancies, high-risk pregnancies, preterm babies, and all of that.
At one point it was a possibility that the only way to have our own genetic children would have been through a surrogate.

I am very open about it all to demonstrate it is ok to talk about and hopefully save someone else from the surprise. This stuff does happen and more frequently than we would like.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6274 on: March 01, 2021, 03:53:02 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.
Iím sorry it was such a struggle.

One of my pet peeves is how society tends to talk about babies as though they are all kittens and rainbows. I get it, I really wanted my babies and thought the world of them.
But you know, they also really suck. Like, really truly suck. My first year+ of life with each of my babies was pure hell. I felt guilt and overall even worse for having these feeling because I was supposed to be happy and babies were supposed to be great.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6275 on: March 01, 2021, 06:49:13 PM »
Sword, thatís the depressing part of retirement communities. You hear ambulance sirens all the time. Seeing so many people die would be depressing.
We have three rentals in a large senior community. The back of one of them is directly across from the (external) Fire/Paramedic Station. It is on a greenbelt, gets incredible sunsets and was the perfect combination of dilapidation/price, so we did our research before we bought it. Turns out, the emergency responders use their lights, not their sirens for most calls. Our post-rehab tenants chose this property specifically for the sunsets and aren't bothered by the station at all.

In pre-Covid times, this community boasts over 80 clubs, several restaurants, a large theater, multiple pools, gyms, golf courses, sport courts, a ballroom, classrooms, a post office, a great honor system library, and more. There is an external shopping center with restaurants, full service grocery and hardware stores, plus a host of peripheral small businesses, all accessible via golf cart and a private gate, so no city street driving required. To top it off, it is way more affordable than where we live now.

The thing about aging and mortality is that either you and or friends are all going to die eventually, no matter where you live. In non-age specific areas, the new neighbors are likely to be young couples with babies, who don't even notice the "old" folks next door. #askmehowIknow. At least in Senior communities, vacancies are filled with people you're more likely to have commonality with, and who have time for new friendships.
Young couples with babies probably don't notice...anything. #askmehowIknow

I realize that my youngest is now 8.5, but I still remember those infant days (and not always fondly!)  I lived in a constant state of utter exhaustion and confusion.  For about 3 years.  Times two.

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6276 on: March 01, 2021, 11:35:51 PM »
Sword, thatís the depressing part of retirement communities. You hear ambulance sirens all the time. Seeing so many people die would be depressing.
We have three rentals in a large senior community. The back of one of them is directly across from the (external) Fire/Paramedic Station. It is on a greenbelt, gets incredible sunsets and was the perfect combination of dilapidation/price, so we did our research before we bought it. Turns out, the emergency responders use their lights, not their sirens for most calls. Our post-rehab tenants chose this property specifically for the sunsets and aren't bothered by the station at all.

In pre-Covid times, this community boasts over 80 clubs, several restaurants, a large theater, multiple pools, gyms, golf courses, sport courts, a ballroom, classrooms, a post office, a great honor system library, and more. There is an external shopping center with restaurants, full service grocery and hardware stores, plus a host of peripheral small businesses, all accessible via golf cart and a private gate, so no city street driving required. To top it off, it is way more affordable than where we live now.

The thing about aging and mortality is that either you and or friends are all going to die eventually, no matter where you live. In non-age specific areas, the new neighbors are likely to be young couples with babies, who don't even notice the "old" folks next door. #askmehowIknow. At least in Senior communities, vacancies are filled with people you're more likely to have commonality with, and who have time for new friendships.
Young couples with babies probably don't notice...anything. #askmehowIknow

I realize that my youngest is now 8.5, but I still remember those infant days (and not always fondly!)  I lived in a constant state of utter exhaustion and confusion.  For about 3 years.  Times two.
Yeah, I said "babies" when I should have said "children". I grok the difference and wasn't clear. None of them are parents of newborns.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6277 on: March 02, 2021, 12:29:52 AM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.
Iím sorry it was such a struggle.

One of my pet peeves is how society tends to talk about babies as though they are all kittens and rainbows. I get it, I really wanted my babies and thought the world of them.
But you know, they also really suck. Like, really truly suck. My first year+ of life with each of my babies was pure hell. I felt guilt and overall even worse for having these feeling because I was supposed to be happy and babies were supposed to be great.

One of my friends told me that if they had known before how damn hard it is to have kids, they probably would have chosen to not have children. It doesnít mean though that they wished their kids away.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6278 on: March 02, 2021, 07:45:12 AM »
DW and I have quietly said the same thing during the deepest darkness teenage drama moments. We adore our kids.

I've said it before - wish this forum existed about 30 years ago when we were young and dumb and dating. Would have made better choices sooner.

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6279 on: March 02, 2021, 07:57:38 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6280 on: March 02, 2021, 10:07:27 AM »
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6281 on: March 02, 2021, 10:15:41 AM »
Quote
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

DW and I were talking about exactly this last night. Like, what if your kid is just average? Will you be ok with that? I think it takes a sort of courage to accept that your kid is not the next Tom Brady/Beethoven, etc.*

*I don't have children, so I feel unqualified to discuss parenting, but i do think that Helicopter parenting can be a net negative for the child so helicoptered.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6282 on: March 02, 2021, 10:16:52 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
First children will often drive people to make unwise choices.  DW and I had our first while we were in college.  We realized that 1) the market is absolutely saturated with lightly-(or un)used baby clothes and gear, and 2) babies don't actually need much.  Car seat, portacrib, onesies, swaddling blankets, pacifier, burp cloths, and diapers.  And lots of love, time, and patience :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6283 on: March 02, 2021, 10:20:25 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

Looks like you just got out of having to buy/make gifts for anything.

I've never gotten why people throw rationality to the wind when it comes to babies. I also can't sympathize with people who complain about how expensive children are (with the exception of medical expenses). If we leave out the hospital bills from the childbirth, our toddler hasn't cost much more than the tax credits he's gotten us. Almost everything he uses is hand-me-down (and then we pass that stuff along when we're done with it).

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6284 on: March 02, 2021, 11:13:56 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

Looks like you just got out of having to buy/make gifts for anything.

I've never gotten why people throw rationality to the wind when it comes to babies. I also can't sympathize with people who complain about how expensive children are (with the exception of medical expenses). If we leave out the hospital bills from the childbirth, our toddler hasn't cost much more than the tax credits he's gotten us. Almost everything he uses is hand-me-down (and then we pass that stuff along when we're done with it).

Yeah, baby/toddler costs were quite low for us, other than carseat, diapers and similar consumables (tried cloth for awhile, didn't work out for us) - lots of used gear, and some of the used stuff we bought actually resold at a slightly higher price when it was time to get rid of it (the pack-n-play comes to mind)

UpNAtom

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6285 on: March 02, 2021, 11:34:05 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

Looks like you just got out of having to buy/make gifts for anything.

I've never gotten why people throw rationality to the wind when it comes to babies. I also can't sympathize with people who complain about how expensive children are (with the exception of medical expenses). If we leave out the hospital bills from the childbirth, our toddler hasn't cost much more than the tax credits he's gotten us. Almost everything he uses is hand-me-down (and then we pass that stuff along when we're done with it).

With all the used items, credits, sales, etc... by far the two biggest expenses have been: daycare and education savings (and one of those would have been "easy" to drop)

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6286 on: March 02, 2021, 12:49:38 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
You fixed their plumbing and they didn't even pretend to accept the onesie with gratitude? You can have all the whining runway in the world, @Hall11235! Haha, just wait until that kid has pooped all over everything. They'll long for just one more clean onesie. Too bad for them.

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6287 on: March 02, 2021, 02:00:35 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
You fixed their plumbing and they didn't even pretend to accept the onesie with gratitude? You can have all the whining runway in the world, @Hall11235! Haha, just wait until that kid has pooped all over everything. They'll long for just one more clean onesie. Too bad for them.

I can only imagine the amount of poop... blech. Also, more cute onesies for the eventual child we'll have!

The SIL is deep in the Facebook Pregnancy groups. This week is the 'prepare your emergency hospital trip bag' according to the week-by-week checklist they are following. So, of course, a brand new bag, brand new outfits 'just in case.'  This has to be unusual, right? I also think it is super interesting that this is the first generation of moms, really, that are social media adept. I wonder how that impacts the financial incentives to spend on baby shit (for the 'gram, etc.).

It just seems so crazy to me that we come this far. My FIL was one of ELEVEN children, and he grew up in a 1400 square foot home, with 3 bedrooms, and 1 bathroom, and he survived (mostly, lol). Now, apparently, we need biometric socks or we're bad parents? Yikers.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6288 on: March 02, 2021, 03:43:08 PM »
Quote
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

DW and I were talking about exactly this last night. Like, what if your kid is just average? Will you be ok with that? I think it takes a sort of courage to accept that your kid is not the next Tom Brady/Beethoven, etc.*

*I don't have children, so I feel unqualified to discuss parenting, but i do think that Helicopter parenting can be a net negative for the child so helicoptered.

Oh gosh, no one has average children!  Just like no one has ugly children!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6289 on: March 02, 2021, 06:23:51 PM »
Now, apparently, we need biometric socks or we're bad parents?

The idea of a biometric baby sock baffled me so much that I had to google it. Behold: https://owletcare.com.au/blogs/blog/smart-sock-technology-a-closer-look

I could see this being a critical innovation if you have a sick baby who truly needs their blood oxygen levels constantly monitored. The fact that it's being advertised to "track wellness" makes me a little twitchy.

jinga nation

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6290 on: March 02, 2021, 06:29:31 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
to be blunt, y'all are enabling the soon-to-be-parents.
it is going to get worse for them when the baby is born. how will they learn to HTFU?

Monerexia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6291 on: March 02, 2021, 10:33:56 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
to be blunt, y'all are enabling the soon-to-be-parents.
it is going to get worse for them when the baby is born. how will they learn to HTFU?

Yeah I'm full-on allergic to any whiff of entitlement at this point. Almost to the point of hives haha.

ChickenStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6292 on: March 03, 2021, 09:48:07 AM »
I have some relatives that created kind of a weird situation for themselves and they're trying to pull me in. They recently retired and built a new, expensive house in a new subdivision. For some complicated reasons, they decided to build another, nearly identical house a few lots down. Recently, they have been coming after me to buy this new house (still under construction) even though I already have a house that suits me just fine. They keep trying to convince me this will be a great investment because they know that I invest a lot (ie. I put money in index funds and watch it grow).

For some numbers... In my area, a run of the mill 3/2, 1500+/- ft2 used house in the 'burbs would run $150k-225k - this is pretty much where I am now with a somewhat updated 1950s ranch home. This new place they are trying to get me to "invest" in is still 3/2 but around 2500ft2 and, based on similar houses in the neighborhood, will likely go for...<drumroll>... $650k! Holy freaking Hannah! What the heck am I supposed to do with a $650k house? The mortgage alone would be 4x what I'm paying now. Not sure about taxes since it is in a different city but I can't imagine them being less than 2-3x what I have now.

I think I've almost convinced them (as tactfully as I can) I don't want it, but they are still occasionally pinging me about it. $650k...yeesh. Sure, I could swing the mortgage payment, but all that money is currently being funneled into investments. It would probably set my FIRE date back 10 years. Thanks, but no thanks.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6293 on: March 03, 2021, 12:24:44 PM »
Somewhat Updated 1950s Ranch Homes are the best @ChickenStash

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6294 on: March 03, 2021, 01:11:49 PM »
I have some relatives that created kind of a weird situation for themselves and they're trying to pull me in. They recently retired and built a new, expensive house in a new subdivision. For some complicated reasons, they decided to build another, nearly identical house a few lots down. Recently, they have been coming after me to buy this new house (still under construction) even though I already have a house that suits me just fine. They keep trying to convince me this will be a great investment because they know that I invest a lot (ie. I put money in index funds and watch it grow).

For some numbers... In my area, a run of the mill 3/2, 1500+/- ft2 used house in the 'burbs would run $150k-225k - this is pretty much where I am now with a somewhat updated 1950s ranch home. This new place they are trying to get me to "invest" in is still 3/2 but around 2500ft2 and, based on similar houses in the neighborhood, will likely go for...<drumroll>... $650k! Holy freaking Hannah! What the heck am I supposed to do with a $650k house? The mortgage alone would be 4x what I'm paying now. Not sure about taxes since it is in a different city but I can't imagine them being less than 2-3x what I have now.

I think I've almost convinced them (as tactfully as I can) I don't want it, but they are still occasionally pinging me about it. $650k...yeesh. Sure, I could swing the mortgage payment, but all that money is currently being funneled into investments. It would probably set my FIRE date back 10 years. Thanks, but no thanks.

Buying bigger and better homes are one of the many reasons actors, sports figures and others go broke trying to keep the mansions afloat. Bigger means people on your payroll to maintain the inside of the mansion and the outside landscaping. Then furnishing the mansion. Not to mention your car could be an embarrasment to the neighborhood and you probably need an upgrade. Then it will be an inground pool and people to maintain the pool. It is a snowball effect. Needing more and more and more to maintain your new lifestyle! If you are happy with your upgraded 50's house, stick with it. I think that is a great idea!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 08:09:37 AM by Roadrunner53 »

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6295 on: March 04, 2021, 10:03:25 AM »
Relatives trying to profit off of you? I'd stick with your 1950s rancher if you like the house and the location.

Real estate markets are hot, they'll sell it soon enough. Unless the bubble pops. ;)

Monerexia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6296 on: March 04, 2021, 11:51:56 AM »
Relatives trying to profit off of you? I'd stick with your 1950s rancher if you like the house and the location.

Real estate markets are hot, they'll sell it soon enough. Unless the bubble pops. ;)

Yep for me it's zero financial transactions with family members, for any reason, at any time, in any way, in this life and the next. That lesson was one of the hardest I have ever had to learn--man oh man never again haha

LinneaH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6297 on: March 08, 2021, 07:47:27 AM »
After my divorce last year, I decided to not buy "all the house (apartment) I can" but rather keep it on the smaller side, while still letting my sons have enough space/their own rooms. This is both to not have too high living costs, but also because I want to live more minimalistic as it suits my personality. So I have a foldable sofa bed in the living room, which is something I have slept for long periods before (1yr+) so I know it works for me, I am the type of person who folds it away every morning.
Also, the place is in a very good area, great communications, good food store walking distance, a park right outside, great neighbours etc and the apartment is in a very good shape, all walls newly painted, lots of light coming in.

So my sister, who is single, no kids, making quite a lot of money, and spend it all... she has this need to tell me how I should live my life.
This conversation happens about once a month:

Sis: you know you have to move to a bigger place soon
Me: No, I am not planning to do that
S: you know who have to have another room, you will not like to live like this
M: I think I will, as I have done it before, and I have done it now for some months, and I like it. And if I feel I really want to, I have the possibility to buy something bigger, so it's absolutely my own choice, but for now, I am very happy with this
S: you cannot live like this, you will see soon
M: (changing subject)


I have said that I am planning to retire earlier than standard, without giving any details. She knows I am good at managing money and saving
So, in another conversation:
M: I plan to retire earlier than 65 yrs
S: well I know you said so before, but it is not possible
M: this is what I plan
S: well, now when you have kids, it's absolutely not doable
M: (changing subject)

I am a bit tired that she
a) knows so much about what is finacially possible or not, while still borrowing money from our parents
b) know so much about how I should live my life and how I will feel about the choices I have made
c) cannot keep quiet, but feel she has to tell me off over and over again...


iluvzbeach

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6298 on: March 08, 2021, 08:41:16 AM »
@LinneaH, you will get the last laugh when you prove her wrong by retiring early and live happily & comfortably in your apartment.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6299 on: March 08, 2021, 08:49:29 AM »
After my divorce last year, I decided to not buy "all the house (apartment) I can" but rather keep it on the smaller side, while still letting my sons have enough space/their own rooms. This is both to not have too high living costs, but also because I want to live more minimalistic as it suits my personality. So I have a foldable sofa bed in the living room, which is something I have slept for long periods before (1yr+) so I know it works for me, I am the type of person who folds it away every morning.
Also, the place is in a very good area, great communications, good food store walking distance, a park right outside, great neighbours etc and the apartment is in a very good shape, all walls newly painted, lots of light coming in.

So my sister, who is single, no kids, making quite a lot of money, and spend it all... she has this need to tell me how I should live my life.
This conversation happens about once a month:

Sis: you know you have to move to a bigger place soon
Me: No, I am not planning to do that
S: you know who have to have another room, you will not like to live like this
M: I think I will, as I have done it before, and I have done it now for some months, and I like it. And if I feel I really want to, I have the possibility to buy something bigger, so it's absolutely my own choice, but for now, I am very happy with this
S: you cannot live like this, you will see soon
M: (changing subject)


I have said that I am planning to retire earlier than standard, without giving any details. She knows I am good at managing money and saving
So, in another conversation:
M: I plan to retire earlier than 65 yrs
S: well I know you said so before, but it is not possible
M: this is what I plan
S: well, now when you have kids, it's absolutely not doable
M: (changing subject)

I am a bit tired that she
a) knows so much about what is finacially possible or not, while still borrowing money from our parents
b) know so much about how I should live my life and how I will feel about the choices I have made
c) cannot keep quiet, but feel she has to tell me off over and over again...

A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.   

To keep things in proper perspective, you have:

(a) repeatedly tried to nicely handle this and
(b) she has repeatedly ignored your request and
(c) she thinks she has a license to negatively comment on how you run your life and
(d) you are rightly damned tired of it.

Always be nice.    If hinting nicely doesn't work, be direct and blunt.  Nicely, but direct and blunt.

The following advice only applies when being nice simply does not work.    That's a shame, but remember, it's the other person's choice that being nice doesn't work.   

If you haven't been nicely blunt enough yet, I'll start off with a simple suggestion the next time these conversations come up:

"I have heard your opinion on this before.  I do not choose to hear it again.  We are done with this topic forever."

That's remaining nice but direct.    It's blunt.  You're acknowledging receipt of their advice, you haven't attacked them or their advice.   you're saying you've made your decision and the matter is closed.   This is nicely blunt.  No one should doubt your wishes after this statement.

It probably won't work but it's there as a sop to your conscience.

Follow up with, "I SAID we are done with this topic.  Shut up."

Follow up with "What part of SHUT THE FUCK UP DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!"

Follow up with, "There is the door.  You may leave my home.  Come back when you remember your manners."  Adapt as needed to however/whenever/wherever these conversations happen.

This may or may not work, but it has the virtue of (a) possibly solving the problem promptly and (b) privately and (c) leaving them in no doubt about your position.  In other words, if it doesn't solve the problem then they have been warned.

If they persist, then it's time to REALLY transfer the pain back.   In ANY AND ALL social settings, it is imperative that you discuss your sister's inability to manage her finances properly.   It must be done in a way that everyone in the setting eventually understands that your sister cannot handle her finances responsibly and is acting as a leech on your parents, thus endangering the safety of your parent's retirement.    You must point out how irresponsible and childish and selfish and dangerous and cruel and unloving and, well, you get the idea.  There's no shortage of adjectives your sister will not like attached to her and they all apply.

Examples:

"I think it's shameful how you leech off of mom and dad for money.  It's so selfish!   Don't you realize that if you keep doing that they won't have enough to live on for retirement?  Do you want our parents to go hungry because you won't live within your means?    I thought you loved our parents, but I guess you don't since you keep leeching off of them."   Etc.   There are endless variations on this theme.

If you sister tries to deflect, just respond with, "I'll stop discussing this topic when you respect my choice of topics I do not wish to discuss."

This is an example of transferring the pain back to the person causing the problem.   If this doesn't work, then find another pain point and apply it.  Vigorously.

You could, of course, start the first iteration of a conversation like this in private.  That would be the nice thing to do.

If you're not willing to transfer the pain back, then learn to live with these conversations, because they won't stop unless you get lucky and your sister gets bored by them.

Oh by the way, if your sister does take the hint and stop bringing up those topics, expect her to switch to a different set of belittling commentaries on your lifestyle choices.    Bullies are like that.   The response is to raise an eyebrow, look them dead square in the eye and hold that gaze with intensity, and calmly ask, "Are we going to start discussing each other's lifestyle choices again?"   Don't look away until they do. 





« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 09:20:22 AM by SwordGuy »