Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 2649398 times)

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5700 on: January 16, 2020, 03:44:17 PM »
Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of work to live life like that.
A lot of work, yes, but most of the work is being done by other people. Which, for the individual who benefits by being the toxic person, makes it the path of least resistance. All they have to do is commit occasional acts of self-sabotage, or throw occasional tantrums, and everyone else kowtows. It isn't even really the effort of the individual so much as the entire community. You never find a corrupt or toxic person without a clique of enablers who like what they're doing and who appear to be doing their best to perpetuate it.
Question -- What do you call a corrupt or toxic individual without a clique of enablers?
Answer - A (homeless?) dude who gets by and keeps to himself.

Jouer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5701 on: January 17, 2020, 06:55:40 AM »
Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!

Our first nearly died after delivery. Technically she did die, I guess, until CPR began. She went from crying to silence. Fortunately all turned out well due to the miracles of modern medicine.  After that, I am grateful to hear a crying tiny baby. Trust me, itís a lot better than a silent, not breathing newborn. Yes, itís even better on an airplane!

That's a great attitude, Taran. And I'm so glad it all worked out for you.

I don't have kids but I never get upset at crying babies in planes, grocery stores, etc. I always feel badly for the baby and parents. (Certain situations like fine dining I'd argue to keep babies and toddlers out of)

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5702 on: January 17, 2020, 07:59:33 AM »
Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!

Our first nearly died after delivery. Technically she did die, I guess, until CPR began. She went from crying to silence. Fortunately all turned out well due to the miracles of modern medicine.  After that, I am grateful to hear a crying tiny baby. Trust me, itís a lot better than a silent, not breathing newborn. Yes, itís even better on an airplane!

That's a great attitude, Taran. And I'm so glad it all worked out for you.

I don't have kids but I never get upset at crying babies in planes, grocery stores, etc. I always feel badly for the baby and parents. (Certain situations like fine dining I'd argue to keep babies and toddlers out of)

There has always been one occasion where a crying baby infuriates me: the movie theater.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5703 on: January 17, 2020, 09:00:25 PM »
There has always been one occasion where a crying baby infuriates me: the movie theater.

Oh, for sure.  I'll give you that one.

On airplane flights, I used to take earplugs for everyone near us when we had little, potentially loud babies and toddlers.  That helps take the edge for the seat neighbors off when the kids can't settle down.

Cb1234567

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5704 on: January 19, 2020, 09:19:05 PM »
... To me, this looks like an act of defiance; lots of nodding in agreement and understanding the need to keep an eye on his monthly spend, but he's just not going to do it.  Fine, I'm done!  I know hubby has been concerned, b/c he plans to RE in 15 months, and our plans do NOT include financing his Dad when he screws up and runs out of money.  Hubby feels a sense of obligation and guilt, even though he has seen a lifetime of bad financial decisions by his parents.  So when hubby woke up, I told him about the transfer of funds, and suggested that he not go out of his way to help his Dad clean up his accounts or feel guilty about this anymore. I told him, I'm not wasting my time on this anymore; it's obvious that the advice is being ignored, so let him do what he wants, and if he does run out of money, he can figure it out on his own.

I have a wise relative who sums it up thus: "You can't care about someone else's problems more than they do."

Iím late to reading Hunnyís post - you could be writing about my MIL...where my husband spent a week and a half sifting through accounts, bills, and years of late fees, to have it all fall apart within days of leaving.

Now he practices saying the phrase, ď gee, mom, Iím so sorry! It sounds like you have a problem!Ē when something inevitably crops up. End of discussion. No point in going over solutions - itís better to not engage, because sheís not at a crisis point yet of being forced to deal with anything. Itís a great waste of money, though - SS plus 2 partial pensions plus whatever savings are squirreled away - and she will likely need it later. BUT you canít make a person do anything :(

Cb1234567

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5705 on: January 19, 2020, 09:34:05 PM »
Removed ourselves from family drama a few years ago, so this info is from reliable second-hand sources who are still in the thick of it.  The parents are living well beyond their means and are underemployed (at retirement age) to afford the home they are in. They had some rent and living cost help for more than a year while housing another family member, but that was never enough to cover true expenses and now that room is empty again and the gap is getting wider each month. Many of us gave money in the last few years, but after we gave 'emergency' help and later saw it going towards unnecessary renovations instead of food and mortgage we stepped way back. We recognized that we could not control where money given was spent, and did not like how the emergency persisted even as flooring was upgraded and other decorating took precedence.
Present day: the sole worker in the family had planned surgery and was off work for a month, so the emergency calls for money to cover mortgage went out the day before it was due. 2 people were moved to wire funds immediately to help out (although they later said, what kind of plan for optional surgery wouldn't account for this main expense?). Apparently they did plan - by calling the bank and getting the credit limit stretched (yikes). The next day the update is that mom has ordered a new mattress with the line of credit. Because - free money! and 'we needed it'. The people who did contribute are currently making plans to not be reachable during the next 'emergency'. Which is of course, now since they are actually, finally moving but don't have a last months payment on the mortgage. I'm sure they also won't have the funds for the moving truck, but I'm not going to ask questions to that effect.

How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5706 on: January 20, 2020, 12:39:37 PM »
How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

Skipped going to the Christmas dramafest, don't go to my sister's at all.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5707 on: January 20, 2020, 08:09:40 PM »
How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

Requests for help due to self-induced stupidity are declined and riposted with observations on how they could do something they don't want to do to make it better.

Calls about how awful "the other person is" are met with non-committal responses, somewhat more politely phrased than "Sucks to be you.", but with the same end result.   Bonus points for observing the behavior they are complaining about might be a rational response to their own misbegotten choices.

Lend no sympathetic ear.   Offer no assistance.   Point out their faults and failures if they annoy you enough.   In short, give them nothing they want and a fair bit of what they don't want so they are no longer motivated to include you in their douchebaggery.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5708 on: January 20, 2020, 09:14:32 PM »
This sounds a lot like how I deal with my 5 year-oldís drama. :)

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5709 on: January 20, 2020, 09:23:05 PM »
This sounds a lot like how I deal with my 5 year-oldís drama. :)
LOL, so true! "Well, why did you *think* would happen if you did <dumb thing like hitting your older sibling>?" is not that far from "Didn't you stop to consider that blowing $100 on a night out wouldn't make it harder to make it to next payday? "

Monerexia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5710 on: January 21, 2020, 12:13:15 AM »
How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

Requests for help due to self-induced stupidity are declined and riposted with observations on how they could do something they don't want to do to make it better.

Calls about how awful "the other person is" are met with non-committal responses, somewhat more politely phrased than "Sucks to be you.", but with the same end result.   Bonus points for observing the behavior they are complaining about might be a rational response to their own misbegotten choices.

Lend no sympathetic ear.   Offer no assistance.   Point out their faults and failures if they annoy you enough.   In short, give them nothing they want and a fair bit of what they don't want so they are no longer motivated to include you in their douchebaggery.

Perfect. Douchebaggery is right. Myself, I tried to help them in an emotionally effortful (unhelpful) way for well over a decade. Now, I say fuckem.

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5711 on: January 23, 2020, 03:31:59 PM »
Has any member here printed or copied this thread for the "benefit"  of the losers in their life?

Bonus points for:
 a) providing link to thread
 b) specifically circling/highlighting exact post about them or identical circumstances.

Fortunately, no one in my life has pissed me off enough to "make" me do this, although some are from the same cookie cutter as some in-thread examples.

accountingteacher

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5712 on: January 23, 2020, 04:52:00 PM »

They partied and went to every concert and never changed the oil in their cars. 


To be fair, going to every concert in Seattle in the 1990s would have been pretty awesome!

markbike528CBX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5713 on: January 23, 2020, 06:22:09 PM »

They partied and went to every concert and never changed the oil in their cars. 

However, the UofW Hub ballroom shows were 4 bands 4 bucks (for students, $6 otherwise).  I was in graduate school at the time so my show-watching was limited by 60-70 hour weeks.

Sources:  google hub ballroom shows 1990 and images.

Feb 25 1989
The Fluid, Skin Yard, Girl Trouble, Nirvana  --- don't think I saw that one.
January 6 1990
Crunchbird, Gits, TAD, Nirvana -- I believe I saw this one, as they are (in)famous for destroying instruments, which I remember, but I wasn't  that impressed.  I vaguely remember TAD.

Edit, for quotes 
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:13:06 PM by markbike528CBX »

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5714 on: January 27, 2020, 11:55:36 AM »
@ MissNancyPryor:

They might be lazy dumb fuck stoners but some of what you write comes off as blaming them for not foreseeing a real estate run up.  Owing a primary residence is often a financially good move but there are alternatives.  Putting them down for failing to plain is one thing; putting them down for not buying pre-run of real estate/bitcoin/AMZN is something else. 

I am currently selling a condo that I will loose ~30% on sale price with over 12 years; so maybe that is biasing my thoughts.  Home prices go down too.  Į\_(ツ)_/Į

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5715 on: January 27, 2020, 12:26:22 PM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5716 on: January 27, 2020, 12:31:09 PM »
Dad, your dad has a lot of debt for a older person. We drive our cars until dead or not worth repairing.

Goldielocks

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5717 on: January 27, 2020, 12:57:29 PM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

The grumpy cat avatar works exceptionally well with this dialogue.

"...."  indeed!

Mormon Money Mustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5718 on: February 07, 2020, 05:52:57 PM »
My FIL is a hardcore hoarder.  Just like you see on the tv shows.

My BIL visited last week from out of town and told me that his dad (my FIL) asked him to help my FIL develop a plan for retirement. My FIL is 60 years old.

My BIL sits with his dad (my FIL) to go over finances.  My FIL has $450k sitting in a savings account.  He just inherited this money last year so he hasn't spent it yet.  He also had a $100k annuity he just opened.  My FIL had no information on the annuity, not even the name of the financial institution he opened the annuity with.

FIL owns 6 white work vans.  He doesnt have a business or a reason to own these.  He simply fills them with junk and parks them around town.  Be pays over $1200 a month in car insurance.  He also owns 4 storage units all filled with junk.  He gives over $500 a month to his girlfriend.  He also spends thousands a month buying expensive tools and construction equipment for his hoard.  FIL makes approximately $30k a year.  He also had 10 credit cards, most of them maxed out.

BIL told his dad (my FIL) that any retirement plan needed to begin with the clearing and liquidation of the hoard.  FIL refuses and also refuses professional help.  At the rate he's going through his money, we believe he will spend all of his inheritance within 5 years.

Not sure how he plans to to retire.  Also don't know if FIL expects us to take care of him once he's broke.

WTF? 6 vans?

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5719 on: February 10, 2020, 08:10:18 AM »
What's the point of all the unused tools? I have lots of tools but I use them!

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5720 on: February 10, 2020, 02:09:05 PM »
My mom was visiting last week and over the weekend. Had a conversation with her about their house, future plans, etc. Vent incoming.

Their house is older, and has plaster & lathe. Not really a problem, except that the plaster keys are breaking and there's evidence of this in multiple rooms. This is a BIG repair job and they're just not up to it in any way. It's not critical (yet), but realistically it's best if they sell the house in the next year or 2. Mom's eyesight isn't the best so she wasn't aware of the problem. Not sure if dad knows.

Separately, the excuse we've given dad that he needs to keep working is that there's no other decent health insurance option for mom until she turns 65 and is eligible for Medicare. Which is true. But there's 2 other reasons. One being money - they've made a series of poor financial decisions over decades, and they just don't have enough saved up. Coupled with the fact that their budgeting ability seems to have gone out the window. A drop down to the SS + small pension + small amount out of the 401k would be at least a 50% budget cut. Mom "knows" this, but doesn't really know it. The other reason is once he stops working, we have every reason to be concerned that dad would do nothing all day, every day and die within a year. He's got zero hobbies and interests outside of work.

So, mom's plan is that dad will retire next year or whenever, they'll sell the house, then move closer to me and buy a house.

Problems: the house is FULL of stuff. Mom says that she'll have no problem getting rid of 95% of it. I know better. The battles we've fought already over what to keep and what to get rid of... and that's with nothing leaving the house. But that has resulted in a basement full of boxes labeled "sell". Ok. How? Who? Mom is not capable of this. Dad isn't. Which leaves me or my sister, and neither of us live in the area anymore.

And she wants to buy a house near me. Ok. Might be possible, depends on how much they sell the current house for and what's left over after taxes. But one of the reasons they need to sell the current house is they can't do the maintenance or repairs that it needs.

Plus the potential timing issues, they've got 2 cats, I've got 2 cats, combining 4 cats into my house even temporarily is a bad idea, etc. This whole thing is not going to go well. And mom's rose colored lenses on reality are just going to make it harder/drive me batty.

I need to call my sister. Because its looking like this train is pulling into the station in 2021, regardless if there's a station built yet.

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5721 on: February 10, 2020, 02:49:01 PM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5722 on: February 10, 2020, 05:23:52 PM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.
What freaks me out about all this is that...

Your dad is what, 56?  I mean, shouldn't he know better?

But also:  I'm almost 50.  This guy is basically my age.  I thought people my age were smarter.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5723 on: February 10, 2020, 08:17:50 PM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.
What freaks me out about all this is that...

Your dad is what, 56?  I mean, shouldn't he know better?

But also:  I'm almost 50.  This guy is basically my age.  I thought people my age were smarter.

I'm 48. Can confirm that I have not gotten smarter with age.....

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5724 on: February 10, 2020, 10:26:53 PM »
I'm 48. Can confirm that I have not gotten smarter with age.....

I honestly feel like with age I know more, but I'm getting dumber.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5725 on: February 10, 2020, 10:51:35 PM »
Can't teach and old dog new tricks and all.

However, contrary to the spirit of this thread, my brother in his 50s seems to be getting his act together!

ender

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5726 on: February 11, 2020, 06:14:01 AM »
People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

By the River

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5727 on: February 11, 2020, 10:14:38 AM »
People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

There's no way that the oil field will bust in the next 14 years reducing the need for aging oil field truck drivers     /s

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5728 on: February 11, 2020, 10:30:53 AM »
People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

There's no way that the oil field will bust in the next 14 years reducing the need for aging oil field truck drivers     /s
Texas oilfield companies have been laying people off for the past ~6 months. Relatively slowly at this point, but that's the trend.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5729 on: February 11, 2020, 10:39:43 AM »
Can a person drive commercial tanker trucks when they are 70+ years old?

Paul der Krake

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5730 on: February 11, 2020, 11:00:22 AM »
That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

PrairieBeardstache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5731 on: February 12, 2020, 11:52:57 AM »
That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

solon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5732 on: February 12, 2020, 01:25:56 PM »
That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Wow! I got a testosterone boost just looking at that truck. Be sure to watch the promo video too.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5733 on: February 12, 2020, 03:32:00 PM »
CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5734 on: February 12, 2020, 03:52:00 PM »
Can a person drive commercial tanker trucks when they are 70+ years old?

I worked with a guy who was 55 when he decided to get his CDL, thinking he would go drive trucks when he got laid off (we saw it coming, back in 2008).

He lasted a few weeks before quitting his first driving job. He didn't realize all the lifting and moving things he'd have to do, and it was too much for him. Last I heard he was driving school buses.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5735 on: February 12, 2020, 05:52:20 PM »
When my dad retired, he got a CDL and a job driving school buses. He figured it would be a great retirement job because he loves kids, it should be low stress, and he really only wanted the job for something to do and some pocket change.  He lasted 3 days.  Something about unruly brats. 

He then got a job delivering new school buses.  That didn't last long because the hours were too much. 

He then bought a used tractor and brush hog.  He mowed peoples' pastures, grated driveways, and such like that.  He told his customers that his rates are the lowest in town because he is the tractor guy.  Not the shovel guy, not the move shit out of the way guy, the tractor guy, I'm old.  He was happy, customers were happy.  Mom was happy because he wasn't at home complaining about being bored. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5736 on: February 12, 2020, 09:17:17 PM »
That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.
Yup, and these jobs tend to be hyper-local... as in you lose it you're never getting something that good again. Regular tractor trailer or UPS truck for you it is.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5737 on: February 13, 2020, 07:47:14 AM »
That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.
Yup, and these jobs tend to be hyper-local... as in you lose it you're never getting something that good again. Regular tractor trailer or UPS truck for you it is.

That's actually not true. The oil fields may be because they're close to a big urban center. But the other mines all fly in operators from major cities for 2 week in, 2 week out rotations. It's not uncommon for people to switch working at one mine and go to another 3,000km away but not move houses.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5738 on: February 13, 2020, 01:25:04 PM »
When my dad retired, he got a CDL and a job driving school buses. He figured it would be a great retirement job because he loves kids, it should be low stress, and he really only wanted the job for something to do and some pocket change.  He lasted 3 days.  Something about unruly brats. 

If they're grandchildren doing the exact same thing, they're adorable.  And of course the grandparents are only there for a short stint, then go away.  Other people's kids are unruly brats.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5739 on: February 13, 2020, 01:38:33 PM »
CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

Yup.  Until you see them next to "normal" things, it's difficult to imagine just how big they are.


Uturn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5740 on: February 13, 2020, 03:13:04 PM »
That last picture with the dual tractors is going to take some skill when they get to a corner!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5741 on: February 15, 2020, 01:07:45 AM »
CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html
I had a project to help design a maintenance / storage building for those things.  If you think that is big, just imagine how much dirt comes off them when they are brought inside.

And here, that dirt is often mud or slushy mud and falls onto the floor.   Do you know what was huge?  The major mud pits below the floor that we had to create.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5742 on: February 15, 2020, 06:48:24 AM »
CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html
I had a project to help design a maintenance / storage building for those things.  If you think that is big, just imagine how much dirt comes off them when they are brought inside.

And here, that dirt is often mud or slushy mud and falls onto the floor.   Do you know what was huge?  The major mud pits below the floor that we had to create.

I have a t-shirt that says "engineers aren't boring people, we just get really excited about boring things". 

OMG this is so interesting! I never thought about the amount of dirt on the tires.  Did they clean the trucks off or just let stuff fall off naturally?  How did you clean out the pits?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5743 on: February 16, 2020, 05:40:24 PM »
Ok,  think about a car on a snowy / slushy day and what happens to the garage when it comes in.

So we have two problems -- the snowy / slushy / mud problem,  that causes a lot of pain for anything / anyone else stored inside, and two, the problem that mechanics need the vehicle to be clean to work on it, or else they can't see what is wrong or will put debris into an opened gasket, etc.

The solution is two fold -- big grated pits at the entry that are driven over.  Perhaps a bay with spray to clean them off, and then pits on the inside to collect even more dirt / debris.

Add to this the concept that the building is not built on a city system -- there is no water, electrical or sewer system to hook up the property to.   So now what do you do?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5744 on: February 17, 2020, 08:49:02 AM »
Ok,  think about a car on a snowy / slushy day and what happens to the garage when it comes in.

So we have two problems -- the snowy / slushy / mud problem,  that causes a lot of pain for anything / anyone else stored inside, and two, the problem that mechanics need the vehicle to be clean to work on it, or else they can't see what is wrong or will put debris into an opened gasket, etc.

The solution is two fold -- big grated pits at the entry that are driven over.  Perhaps a bay with spray to clean them off, and then pits on the inside to collect even more dirt / debris.

Add to this the concept that the building is not built on a city system -- there is no water, electrical or sewer system to hook up the property to.   So now what do you do?

Give a putty knife to the most junior engineer and tell them to crawl (walk?) under the machine and start scrapping... ;)

Seriously - seems like a good job for a robot arm, a preset cycle movement, and a pressure washer nozzle. Just install a water line...

Robot "sees" the machine number, loads movement program, reaches under the machine shoot water at all the right angles and corners to get the muck off of the machine. Robot can live under the machine or reach under the machine from beside on a track. 

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Brother's continuing downward spiral, now scary
« Reply #5745 on: February 17, 2020, 04:11:23 PM »
Well, my brother, "36-going-on-15," just lost another job. Allegdly, they offered him a shape-up plan and he proudly quit instead. So now he's still living with my retired parents but unemployed, and he is saying he needs money to rent a new place in another city where there are supposedly opportunities in his field. They are letting him go and take the car and rent an apartment.

So, he's still unemployable and they are probably still enabling him, though letting him or making him move out is good, I guess.

I am scared for him and for them.

They don't need this at their ages. I have promised my partner we will never enable him, which is fine with me because he thinks I'm a boring "square" and not hip and he has visible disdain for both of us.

But I can see him being on the edge of a profound mess because he's no longer young enough to be finding himself and I don't know if they realize what a mess it is.

I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

I also selfishly wonder if we're both chips off the same block if I'm also hopeless in some way. I earned my job in a national search that netted 300 viable applicants, have been promoted, and have a leadership role and awards, but still ... I haven't been on the job market in ages, maybe I'm not competitive anymore either, and i don't want to end up like him. And I don't want him to end up where he seems to be going. And I don't want any of it to worry my parents
« Last Edit: February 17, 2020, 04:18:57 PM by stashja »

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Re: Brother's continuing downward spiral, now scary
« Reply #5746 on: February 17, 2020, 04:37:35 PM »
Well, my brother, "36-going-on-15," just lost another job. Allegdly, they offered him a shape-up plan and he proudly quit instead. So now he's still living with my retired parents but unemployed, and he is saying he needs money to rent a new place in another city where there are supposedly opportunities in his field. They are letting him go and take the car and rent an apartment.

So, he's still unemployable and they are probably still enabling him, though letting him or making him move out is good, I guess.

I am scared for him and for them.

They don't need this at their ages. I have promised my partner we will never enable him, which is fine with me because he thinks I'm a boring "square" and not hip and he has visible disdain for both of us.

But I can see him being on the edge of a profound mess because he's no longer young enough to be finding himself and I don't know if they realize what a mess it is.

I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

I also selfishly wonder if we're both chips off the same block if I'm also hopeless in some way. I earned my job in a national search that netted 300 viable applicants, have been promoted, and have a leadership role and awards, but still ... I haven't been on the job market in ages, maybe I'm not competitive anymore either, and i don't want to end up like him. And I don't want him to end up where he seems to be going. And I don't want any of it to worry my parents

Well, to begin with, you're not a self-entitled prick and a blood-sucking leech on your loved ones, so you've go that going for you.

Obviously, your employer has been happy with your performance, unlike your brother.

So, I wouldn't worry about being like him.

As for employability, it's never too early to make sure you stay employable.


1) Treat everyone nicely and with respect (unless they earn otherwise). 
2) Help those you work with grow in skills and income.
3) Do good work and keep up with your field.
4) Keep in touch with good people you meet, especially those you've worked with. Top-notch, good people who want to work with you again are your first line of defense against being unemployed.
5) Keep a weather eye out for upcoming trends and position yourself to learn what you need to learn to stay current.  Never trust your employer to keep your skills current.
6) Remember that a corporation is a legal body by act of law.  It is a body without a soul.   Never trust a body without a soul.     You may be able to trust specific managers up to where they have to fight the marketplace -- because the marketplace will win that fight.

Just Joe

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Re: Brother's continuing downward spiral, now scary
« Reply #5747 on: February 17, 2020, 09:15:18 PM »
I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

I figure this is the perfect place (in the internet, anonymously) to vent harmlessly. Get it out of your system. You might feel better.

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Re: Brother's continuing downward spiral, now scary
« Reply #5748 on: February 18, 2020, 12:15:45 AM »
6) Remember that a corporation is a legal body by act of law.  It is a body without a soul.  Never trust a body without a soul.    

This is fantastic!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5749 on: February 18, 2020, 12:30:51 AM »
Ok,  think about a car on a snowy / slushy day and what happens to the garage when it comes in.

So we have two problems -- the snowy / slushy / mud problem,  that causes a lot of pain for anything / anyone else stored inside, and two, the problem that mechanics need the vehicle to be clean to work on it, or else they can't see what is wrong or will put debris into an opened gasket, etc.

The solution is two fold -- big grated pits at the entry that are driven over.  Perhaps a bay with spray to clean them off, and then pits on the inside to collect even more dirt / debris.

Add to this the concept that the building is not built on a city system -- there is no water, electrical or sewer system to hook up the property to.   So now what do you do?

Give a putty knife to the most junior engineer and tell them to crawl (walk?) under the machine and start scrapping... ;)

Seriously - seems like a good job for a robot arm, a preset cycle movement, and a pressure washer nozzle. Just install a water line...

Robot "sees" the machine number, loads movement program, reaches under the machine shoot water at all the right angles and corners to get the muck off of the machine. Robot can live under the machine or reach under the machine from beside on a track.
LOL, no need for a robot,  a person with a pressure wash nozzle is ample.  Can walk right under.  Just need to figure out a way to recycle and treat the water and hold the mud until is is scraped into a pit somewhere outside.