Relatives who just don't get it

[Just Joe]

What's the point of all the unused tools? I have lots of tools but I use them!

[Sibley]

My mom was visiting last week and over the weekend. Had a conversation with her about their house, future plans, etc. Vent incoming.

Their house is older, and has plaster & lathe. Not really a problem, except that the plaster keys are breaking and there's evidence of this in multiple rooms. This is a BIG repair job and they're just not up to it in any way. It's not critical (yet), but realistically it's best if they sell the house in the next year or 2. Mom's eyesight isn't the best so she wasn't aware of the problem. Not sure if dad knows.

Separately, the excuse we've given dad that he needs to keep working is that there's no other decent health insurance option for mom until she turns 65 and is eligible for Medicare. Which is true. But there's 2 other reasons. One being money - they've made a series of poor financial decisions over decades, and they just don't have enough saved up. Coupled with the fact that their budgeting ability seems to have gone out the window. A drop down to the SS + small pension + small amount out of the 401k would be at least a 50% budget cut. Mom "knows" this, but doesn't really know it. The other reason is once he stops working, we have every reason to be concerned that dad would do nothing all day, every day and die within a year. He's got zero hobbies and interests outside of work.

So, mom's plan is that dad will retire next year or whenever, they'll sell the house, then move closer to me and buy a house.

Problems: the house is FULL of stuff. Mom says that she'll have no problem getting rid of 95% of it. I know better. The battles we've fought already over what to keep and what to get rid of... and that's with nothing leaving the house. But that has resulted in a basement full of boxes labeled "sell". Ok. How? Who? Mom is not capable of this. Dad isn't. Which leaves me or my sister, and neither of us live in the area anymore.

And she wants to buy a house near me. Ok. Might be possible, depends on how much they sell the current house for and what's left over after taxes. But one of the reasons they need to sell the current house is they can't do the maintenance or repairs that it needs.

Plus the potential timing issues, they've got 2 cats, I've got 2 cats, combining 4 cats into my house even temporarily is a bad idea, etc. This whole thing is not going to go well. And mom's rose colored lenses on reality are just going to make it harder/drive me batty.

I need to call my sister. Because its looking like this train is pulling into the station in 2021, regardless if there's a station built yet.

[DadJokes]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

[mm1970]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

What freaks me out about all this is that...

Your dad is what, 56?  I mean, shouldn't he know better?

But also:  I'm almost 50.  This guy is basically my age.  I thought people my age were smarter.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

What freaks me out about all this is that...

Your dad is what, 56?  I mean, shouldn't he know better?

But also:  I'm almost 50.  This guy is basically my age.  I thought people my age were smarter.

I'm 48. Can confirm that I have not gotten smarter with age.....

[Taran Wanderer]

I'm 48. Can confirm that I have not gotten smarter with age.....

I honestly feel like with age I know more, but I'm getting dumber.

[ixtap]

Can't teach and old dog new tricks and all.

However, contrary to the spirit of this thread, my brother in his 50s seems to be getting his act together!

[ender]

People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

[By the River]

People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

There's no way that the oil field will bust in the next 14 years reducing the need for aging oil field truck drivers     /s

[TomTX]

People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

There's no way that the oil field will bust in the next 14 years reducing the need for aging oil field truck drivers     /s

Texas oilfield companies have been laying people off for the past ~6 months. Relatively slowly at this point, but that's the trend.

[Just Joe]

Can a person drive commercial tanker trucks when they are 70+ years old?

[Paul der Krake]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

[PrairieBeardstache]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

[solon]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Wow! I got a testosterone boost just looking at that truck. Be sure to watch the promo video too.

[Just Joe]

CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

[Dave1442397]

Can a person drive commercial tanker trucks when they are 70+ years old?

I worked with a guy who was 55 when he decided to get his CDL, thinking he would go drive trucks when he got laid off (we saw it coming, back in 2008).

He lasted a few weeks before quitting his first driving job. He didn't realize all the lifting and moving things he'd have to do, and it was too much for him. Last I heard he was driving school buses.

[Uturn]

When my dad retired, he got a CDL and a job driving school buses. He figured it would be a great retirement job because he loves kids, it should be low stress, and he really only wanted the job for something to do and some pocket change.  He lasted 3 days.  Something about unruly brats. 

He then got a job delivering new school buses.  That didn't last long because the hours were too much. 

He then bought a used tractor and brush hog.  He mowed peoples' pastures, grated driveways, and such like that.  He told his customers that his rates are the lowest in town because he is the tractor guy.  Not the shovel guy, not the move shit out of the way guy, the tractor guy, I'm old.  He was happy, customers were happy.  Mom was happy because he wasn't at home complaining about being bored. 

[Paul der Krake]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Yup, and these jobs tend to be hyper-local... as in you lose it you're never getting something that good again. Regular tractor trailer or UPS truck for you it is.

[PrairieBeardstache]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Yup, and these jobs tend to be hyper-local... as in you lose it you're never getting something that good again. Regular tractor trailer or UPS truck for you it is.

That's actually not true. The oil fields may be because they're close to a big urban center. But the other mines all fly in operators from major cities for 2 week in, 2 week out rotations. It's not uncommon for people to switch working at one mine and go to another 3,000km away but not move houses.

[Car Jack]

When my dad retired, he got a CDL and a job driving school buses. He figured it would be a great retirement job because he loves kids, it should be low stress, and he really only wanted the job for something to do and some pocket change.  He lasted 3 days.  Something about unruly brats. 

If they're grandchildren doing the exact same thing, they're adorable.  And of course the grandparents are only there for a short stint, then go away.  Other people's kids are unruly brats.

[Dogastrophe]

CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

Yup.  Until you see them next to "normal" things, it's difficult to imagine just how big they are.

[Uturn]

That last picture with the dual tractors is going to take some skill when they get to a corner!

[Goldielocks]

CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

I had a project to help design a maintenance / storage building for those things.  If you think that is big, just imagine how much dirt comes off them when they are brought inside.

And here, that dirt is often mud or slushy mud and falls onto the floor.   Do you know what was huge?  The major mud pits below the floor that we had to create.

[MayDay]

CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

I had a project to help design a maintenance / storage building for those things.  If you think that is big, just imagine how much dirt comes off them when they are brought inside.

And here, that dirt is often mud or slushy mud and falls onto the floor.   Do you know what was huge?  The major mud pits below the floor that we had to create.

I have a t-shirt that says "engineers aren't boring people, we just get really excited about boring things". 

OMG this is so interesting! I never thought about the amount of dirt on the tires.  Did they clean the trucks off or just let stuff fall off naturally?  How did you clean out the pits?

[Goldielocks]

Ok,  think about a car on a snowy / slushy day and what happens to the garage when it comes in.

So we have two problems -- the snowy / slushy / mud problem,  that causes a lot of pain for anything / anyone else stored inside, and two, the problem that mechanics need the vehicle to be clean to work on it, or else they can't see what is wrong or will put debris into an opened gasket, etc.

The solution is two fold -- big grated pits at the entry that are driven over.  Perhaps a bay with spray to clean them off, and then pits on the inside to collect even more dirt / debris.

Add to this the concept that the building is not built on a city system -- there is no water, electrical or sewer system to hook up the property to.   So now what do you do?

[Just Joe]

Ok,  think about a car on a snowy / slushy day and what happens to the garage when it comes in.

So we have two problems -- the snowy / slushy / mud problem,  that causes a lot of pain for anything / anyone else stored inside, and two, the problem that mechanics need the vehicle to be clean to work on it, or else they can't see what is wrong or will put debris into an opened gasket, etc.

The solution is two fold -- big grated pits at the entry that are driven over.  Perhaps a bay with spray to clean them off, and then pits on the inside to collect even more dirt / debris.

Add to this the concept that the building is not built on a city system -- there is no water, electrical or sewer system to hook up the property to.   So now what do you do?

Give a putty knife to the most junior engineer and tell them to crawl (walk?) under the machine and start scrapping... ;)

Seriously - seems like a good job for a robot arm, a preset cycle movement, and a pressure washer nozzle. Just install a water line...

Robot "sees" the machine number, loads movement program, reaches under the machine shoot water at all the right angles and corners to get the muck off of the machine. Robot can live under the machine or reach under the machine from beside on a track. 

[stashja]

Well, my brother, "36-going-on-15," just lost another job. Allegdly, they offered him a shape-up plan and he proudly quit instead. So now he's still living with my retired parents but unemployed, and he is saying he needs money to rent a new place in another city where there are supposedly opportunities in his field. They are letting him go and take the car and rent an apartment.

So, he's still unemployable and they are probably still enabling him, though letting him or making him move out is good, I guess.

I am scared for him and for them.

They don't need this at their ages. I have promised my partner we will never enable him, which is fine with me because he thinks I'm a boring "square" and not hip and he has visible disdain for both of us.

But I can see him being on the edge of a profound mess because he's no longer young enough to be finding himself and I don't know if they realize what a mess it is.

I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

I also selfishly wonder if we're both chips off the same block if I'm also hopeless in some way. I earned my job in a national search that netted 300 viable applicants, have been promoted, and have a leadership role and awards, but still ... I haven't been on the job market in ages, maybe I'm not competitive anymore either, and i don't want to end up like him. And I don't want him to end up where he seems to be going. And I don't want any of it to worry my parents

[SwordGuy]

Well, my brother, "36-going-on-15," just lost another job. Allegdly, they offered him a shape-up plan and he proudly quit instead. So now he's still living with my retired parents but unemployed, and he is saying he needs money to rent a new place in another city where there are supposedly opportunities in his field. They are letting him go and take the car and rent an apartment.

So, he's still unemployable and they are probably still enabling him, though letting him or making him move out is good, I guess.

I am scared for him and for them.

They don't need this at their ages. I have promised my partner we will never enable him, which is fine with me because he thinks I'm a boring "square" and not hip and he has visible disdain for both of us.

But I can see him being on the edge of a profound mess because he's no longer young enough to be finding himself and I don't know if they realize what a mess it is.

I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

I also selfishly wonder if we're both chips off the same block if I'm also hopeless in some way. I earned my job in a national search that netted 300 viable applicants, have been promoted, and have a leadership role and awards, but still ... I haven't been on the job market in ages, maybe I'm not competitive anymore either, and i don't want to end up like him. And I don't want him to end up where he seems to be going. And I don't want any of it to worry my parents

Well, to begin with, you're not a self-entitled prick and a blood-sucking leech on your loved ones, so you've go that going for you.

Obviously, your employer has been happy with your performance, unlike your brother.

So, I wouldn't worry about being like him.

As for employability, it's never too early to make sure you stay employable.


1) Treat everyone nicely and with respect (unless they earn otherwise). 
2) Help those you work with grow in skills and income.
3) Do good work and keep up with your field.
4) Keep in touch with good people you meet, especially those you've worked with. Top-notch, good people who want to work with you again are your first line of defense against being unemployed.
5) Keep a weather eye out for upcoming trends and position yourself to learn what you need to learn to stay current.  Never trust your employer to keep your skills current.
6) Remember that a corporation is a legal body by act of law.  It is a body without a soul.   Never trust a body without a soul.     You may be able to trust specific managers up to where they have to fight the marketplace -- because the marketplace will win that fight.

[Just Joe]

I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

I figure this is the perfect place (in the internet, anonymously) to vent harmlessly. Get it out of your system. You might feel better.

[Playing with Fire UK]

6) Remember that a corporation is a legal body by act of law.  It is a body without a soul.  Never trust a body without a soul.    

This is fantastic!

[Goldielocks]

Ok,  think about a car on a snowy / slushy day and what happens to the garage when it comes in.

So we have two problems -- the snowy / slushy / mud problem,  that causes a lot of pain for anything / anyone else stored inside, and two, the problem that mechanics need the vehicle to be clean to work on it, or else they can't see what is wrong or will put debris into an opened gasket, etc.

The solution is two fold -- big grated pits at the entry that are driven over.  Perhaps a bay with spray to clean them off, and then pits on the inside to collect even more dirt / debris.

Add to this the concept that the building is not built on a city system -- there is no water, electrical or sewer system to hook up the property to.   So now what do you do?

Give a putty knife to the most junior engineer and tell them to crawl (walk?) under the machine and start scrapping... ;)

Seriously - seems like a good job for a robot arm, a preset cycle movement, and a pressure washer nozzle. Just install a water line...

Robot "sees" the machine number, loads movement program, reaches under the machine shoot water at all the right angles and corners to get the muck off of the machine. Robot can live under the machine or reach under the machine from beside on a track.

LOL, no need for a robot,  a person with a pressure wash nozzle is ample.  Can walk right under.  Just need to figure out a way to recycle and treat the water and hold the mud until is is scraped into a pit somewhere outside.

[Just Joe]

I was thinking of the assembly line painting robots but with pressure washers... Might be the perfect "new guy" job to do it manually. Want to drive the beasts? Well first you get to wash them for a few months...

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I was thinking of the assembly line painting robots but with pressure washers... Might be the perfect "new guy" job to do it manually. Want to drive the beasts? Well first you get to wash them for a few months...

Yeah that tactic works brilliantly - I was once hired as an assistant manager of a store. I spent a whole month cleaning said store. Never picked up a piece of paper, never spoke to a supplier, never once used the till. I don't know what I was supposed to learn. What I did learn was that I wasn't tolerating this shit, so I quit and got a better job.

[Taran Wanderer]

6) Remember that a corporation is a legal body by act of law.  It is a body without a soul.  Never trust a body without a soul.    

This is fantastic!

It really is.

[Paul der Krake]

I'll take no soul over rotten soul, easier to deal with.

[SwordGuy]

I'll take no soul over rotten soul, easier to deal with.

Easier to deal with, but no more trustworthy!

[SunnyYellow]

I know I come to this thread only to vent about him and his impact on them and (when I still saw him once a year; no more) on me. I'm sorry about that but don't have anyplace else for that kind of venting.

Please don't apologize for venting about your brother. You're sincerely concerned for him and your parents -- and you're not alone. At least I feel less alone reading your experience.

I have a brother a lot like yours, just an older version. He's in his fifties. He was in his thirties when he quit the last job he held that paid full-time wages and benefits. He refused help from his siblings in getting another, good, job. He's been living with our elderly mother in her rental flat, paying very little rent for a really nice situation and working part-time. Yes, he helps her a little, like with snow-shoveling. Yes, she subsidizes his life, including driving him to his low-paying, no benefits job. He disdains his brothers and sisters, expects us to pay his way, and likes to point out that certain of us "have money." Yeah. Well, we worked for that.

Anyway, you're not the only one wondering what will happen down the road. My mom has already had financial problems, in large part because brother is sapping what was supposed to be her retirement income (the flat's rent is $1000 less for him). She should have sold that house, too. Anyway, we've talked to her and she won't change. We're all kind of wondering what will happen when she passes, which is going to happen someday. He's hinted about moving out my way. Oh dear Lord.

So, yeah. You have company. Feel free to vent!

[DadJokes]

We're all kind of wondering what will happen when she passes, which is going to happen someday. He's hinted about moving out my way. Oh dear Lord.

My father has expressed interest multiple times in moving to where we live when his wife's parents pass (which could be anytime at this point). I don't really want to have to tell him that I moved across the country for a reason. Hopefully his job and debt will keep him from being able to make any big moves.

[AMandM]

Yeah that tactic works brilliantly - I was once hired as an assistant manager of a store. I spent a whole month cleaning said store. Never picked up a piece of paper, never spoke to a supplier, never once used the till. I don't know what I was supposed to learn. What I did learn was that I wasn't tolerating this ####, so I quit and got a better job.

I can totally see having managers and assistant managers start by doing the underlings' work for a while, so that when they start actual managing they will understand what they're asking the employees to do. But a whole month of nothing but cleaning is way beyond that!

[Just Joe]

I was thinking of the assembly line painting robots but with pressure washers... Might be the perfect "new guy" job to do it manually. Want to drive the beasts? Well first you get to wash them for a few months...

Yeah that tactic works brilliantly - I was once hired as an assistant manager of a store. I spent a whole month cleaning said store. Never picked up a piece of paper, never spoke to a supplier, never once used the till. I don't know what I was supposed to learn. What I did learn was that I wasn't tolerating this shit, so I quit and got a better job.

That's how the military did it when I was in. You're the new person? Okay - first you'll be part of the cleaning crew for a period. Or maybe part of the galley crew making and serving food. Once that is all done, then you'll start earning qualifications. Everyone went through it but a person did more of that the lower they were on the pecking order (rank). Its work that had to be done.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I was thinking of the assembly line painting robots but with pressure washers... Might be the perfect "new guy" job to do it manually. Want to drive the beasts? Well first you get to wash them for a few months...

Yeah that tactic works brilliantly - I was once hired as an assistant manager of a store. I spent a whole month cleaning said store. Never picked up a piece of paper, never spoke to a supplier, never once used the till. I don't know what I was supposed to learn. What I did learn was that I wasn't tolerating this shit, so I quit and got a better job.

That's how the military did it when I was in. You're the new person? Okay - first you'll be part of the cleaning crew for a period. Or maybe part of the galley crew making and serving food. Once that is all done, then you'll start earning qualifications. Everyone went through it but a person did more of that the lower they were on the pecking order (rank). Its work that had to be done.

Great. But I wasn't in the military. I have no desire to join the military, and they should count themselves lucky, because I'm not very good at following orders.

[dmadill001]

8pm, Brother and Sister in Law about to leave for 2-hour drive home from MIL’s house after gathering to celebrate a family birthday.
SIL: Ugh I’m going to have to run by Kroger once I get home.
ME: What do you need to get from Kroger that can’t wait until tomorrow?
SIL: Well I want to make chicken salad for lunch, and I don’t have apples to put in it. I guess I could just click list it. I usually don’t like to spend the $5 fee unless I’m getting a few things.
ME (in my head, also whispered to my wife): Why don’t you add a catheter and a bedpan, that might make it worth the $5 fee.
MIL: Well I don’t like doing the click list nowadays because then I can’t get the Woohoo deals.
(MIL regularly brings home unwanted, almost spoiled food she only bought because of the “woohoo deal” sale price Kroger runs for almost out of date food.)
SIL: I guess the $5 is worth it because if I go in myself, I always end up buying more than $5 worth of stuff I don’t need.

They’re so close.

[RWD]

I didn't even know you were supposed to put apples in chicken salad...

[dmadill001]

I didn't even know you were supposed to put apples in chicken salad...

Yeah that confused me as well, but at that point there were other larger questions I was asking

[wellactually]

I am in a beta group for Kroger/Gerbes called VIP. I paid $120 last June. What I get from it: free pick-up and delivery on orders over $35, extra 10% off all store brands, $10 back for every $100 spent on store brands.

It has been amazing. I'm not sure if they'll keep the program up, and I'm positive I'm the only VIP in my town, so it's not widespread. But I've been completely spoiled by not having to pay for pick-up. Anyway, sometimes it pays to spend years and years answering surveys and signing up to test and review new products at your favorite grocery store!

I would have expected grapes and celery in the chicken salad, but I could see apples working well instead.

[Sibley]

I didn't even know you were supposed to put apples in chicken salad...

Yeah that confused me as well, but at that point there were other larger questions I was asking

I've seen apples, nuts, and celery in chicken salad. All at the same time. I wasn't a fan, but it seemed popular in the restaurant.

[ixtap]

I didn't even know you were supposed to put apples in chicken salad...

Yeah that confused me as well, but at that point there were other larger questions I was asking

I've seen apples, nuts, and celery in chicken salad. All at the same time. I wasn't a fan, but it seemed popular in the restaurant.

With tarragon - YUM!

[Maenad]

I have a t-shirt that says "engineers aren't boring people, we just get really excited about boring things". 

I... hadn't really thought of it that way. I guess that explains why sometimes we're the only ones who grok each other.

[Sugaree]

I use Walmart's pickup, so there's no fee.  But I can definitely see the point about not spending as much when you don't go inside.  I can send my husband to the grocery store to pick up groceries without fearing that he'll come home with $50 worth of beef jerky.

[merula]

I use Walmart's pickup, so there's no fee.  But I can definitely see the point about not spending as much when you don't go inside.  I can send my husband to the grocery store to pick up groceries without fearing that he'll come home with $50 worth of beef jerky.

In fairness, that's like two packages of beef jerky these days.