Relatives who just don't get it

[TheGrimSqueaker]

My mom keeps saying she wants my brother and I to have a good relationship, and I know the work of that would just fall on me.  I don't know if I'll  sever all lines of communication, but I've just decided I'm not going to strain myself over it, and if the relationship is a bit fake or shallow that's fine if that keeps me safe and sane.  And if I have to cut him, and even my mom, out of my life, I'll do it. 

Thank you.

And thank YOU, scrunchythief, for saying the above--I really needed to hear every word of that, myself, especially the bolded.  Fake and shallow are not my standard operating procedure, but that may in some cases be the best of all possible outcomes.  As soon as "safe and sane" are clearly out of the question, then other choices can and must be made.

Thank you.  :)

When dealing with a basically dishonest, corrupt, or predatory person, the best you can ever hope for is a cursory acquaintanceship. For that, all a person has to do is to be polite when you meet by chance. This means that if you're both guests at a large party, you greet them and conduct a civil conversation in which you give them absolutely no information about yourself. Be mannerly and polite, as though you were talking to a stranger. Any structured involvement where there's some sort of social contract is simply too much, because you're dealing with a person who basically gets off on violating social contracts. Making even the slightest effort at social interaction will backfire because the toxic person interprets it as an invitation to do inappropriate and toxic things, and abuse whatever access you're providing. This means you don't invite this person to your home, you don't treat them to meals, you don't exchange gifts or holiday cards, and you don't friend them on social media. You don't call them, text them, write to them, or meet them for lunch. You don't vent to them, you don't pass news along, you don't deliver messages from other people, and you don't discuss any problems you might be having. Anything you say can and will be used against you later. You also don't discuss them behind their back or send messages to them using other people as go-betweens. You also don't speak to them or interact with them alone. Make sure another person is present at all times. The presence of a witness often deters a toxic person from making a false accusation. Above all, don't do anything that might lead others to believe you and the toxic person are on good terms, because they can and will use your credibility to con others. Even holiday gift exchanges or being "friends" on social media is too much.

Corrupt people are adept at muddying the waters so that their actions and decisions appear to be reasonable. They're great at pretending to be socially awkward, "on the spectrum", or otherwise not accountable for their actions. There's always some kind of pretense of not being able to understand or remember when it's time to reciprocate a good turn, or what the standards and expectations are when it comes to respecting other people's boundaries and treating them well. But in reality it's just a pretense: when someone else does the same thing to them, they're suddenly and magically able to recognize inappropriate behavior when they see it. Toxic people cannot continue to function unless they're able to obfuscate the real issue, which is their decision to deliberately violate boundaries and social expectations. They do it to avoid consequences. They do it because the only way they will get to continue to trade on the benefit of other people's doubt is to generate a flaming metric ton of doubt in the first place.

There's a minimum safe distance from dysfunction, if you want to have a happy life yourself. No contact is very extreme, but it's sometimes necessary. The worst thing you can do is alternating periods of no contact and full contact: it sends the message that your "no" is meaningless and that your boundaries and standards aren't real-- in short, that you're the one who is the fake, or the drama artist, or the person responsible for the problem.

[MissNancyPryor]

snip ~ smart things @TheGrimSqueaker says ~ snip

Also known as going "grey rock" with this kind of corrupt person.  There is lots of stuff online about how to do that and why it is so important, echoing what TGS has advised. 

[SunnyDays]

Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of wok to live life like that.

[SunnyDays]

That's "work."

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of work to live life like that.

A lot of work, yes, but most of the work is being done by other people. Which, for the individual who benefits by being the toxic person, makes it the path of least resistance. All they have to do is commit occasional acts of self-sabotage, or throw occasional tantrums, and everyone else kowtows. It isn't even really the effort of the individual so much as the entire community. You never find a corrupt or toxic person without a clique of enablers who like what they're doing and who appear to be doing their best to perpetuate it.

[OtherJen]

Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of work to live life like that.

A lot of work, yes, but most of the work is being done by other people. Which, for the individual who benefits by being the toxic person, makes it the path of least resistance. All they have to do is commit occasional acts of self-sabotage, or throw occasional tantrums, and everyone else kowtows. It isn't even really the effort of the individual so much as the entire community. You never find a corrupt or toxic person without a clique of enablers who like what they're doing and who appear to be doing their best to perpetuate it.

This. So much. I've seen it in my family and friend groups.

[shelivesthedream]

Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!

[mtn]

Eh, I'll disagree on the car-ride theory, at least for the first child. I don't think there is anything scarier than being a parent.

[DadJokes]

Eh, I'll disagree on the car-ride theory, at least for the first child. I don't think there is anything scarier than being a parent.

Bears.

[mtn]

Eh, I'll disagree on the car-ride theory, at least for the first child. I don't think there is anything scarier than being a parent.

Bears.

Sorry, nope. I stand a chance against bears. But I don't stand a chance against the whole world that is out there. I can't protect my child from everything (and everything includes bears), which is what makes it so scary.

Besides, bears are easy. Give them some honey and stay away from their cubs and you'll be fine.

[Taran Wanderer]

Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!

Our first nearly died after delivery. Technically she did die, I guess, until CPR began. She went from crying to silence. Fortunately all turned out well due to the miracles of modern medicine.  After that, I am grateful to hear a crying tiny baby. Trust me, it’s a lot better than a silent, not breathing newborn. Yes, it’s even better on an airplane!

[Goldielocks]

Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of work to live life like that.

A lot of work, yes, but most of the work is being done by other people. Which, for the individual who benefits by being the toxic person, makes it the path of least resistance. All they have to do is commit occasional acts of self-sabotage, or throw occasional tantrums, and everyone else kowtows. It isn't even really the effort of the individual so much as the entire community. You never find a corrupt or toxic person without a clique of enablers who like what they're doing and who appear to be doing their best to perpetuate it.

Question -- What do you call a corrupt or toxic individual without a clique of enablers?
Answer - A (homeless?) dude who gets by and keeps to himself.

[Jouer]

Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!

Our first nearly died after delivery. Technically she did die, I guess, until CPR began. She went from crying to silence. Fortunately all turned out well due to the miracles of modern medicine.  After that, I am grateful to hear a crying tiny baby. Trust me, it’s a lot better than a silent, not breathing newborn. Yes, it’s even better on an airplane!

That's a great attitude, Taran. And I'm so glad it all worked out for you.

I don't have kids but I never get upset at crying babies in planes, grocery stores, etc. I always feel badly for the baby and parents. (Certain situations like fine dining I'd argue to keep babies and toddlers out of)

[DadJokes]

Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!

Our first nearly died after delivery. Technically she did die, I guess, until CPR began. She went from crying to silence. Fortunately all turned out well due to the miracles of modern medicine.  After that, I am grateful to hear a crying tiny baby. Trust me, it’s a lot better than a silent, not breathing newborn. Yes, it’s even better on an airplane!

That's a great attitude, Taran. And I'm so glad it all worked out for you.

I don't have kids but I never get upset at crying babies in planes, grocery stores, etc. I always feel badly for the baby and parents. (Certain situations like fine dining I'd argue to keep babies and toddlers out of)

There has always been one occasion where a crying baby infuriates me: the movie theater.

[Taran Wanderer]

There has always been one occasion where a crying baby infuriates me: the movie theater.

Oh, for sure.  I'll give you that one.

On airplane flights, I used to take earplugs for everyone near us when we had little, potentially loud babies and toddlers.  That helps take the edge for the seat neighbors off when the kids can't settle down.

[Cb1234567]

... To me, this looks like an act of defiance; lots of nodding in agreement and understanding the need to keep an eye on his monthly spend, but he's just not going to do it.  Fine, I'm done!  I know hubby has been concerned, b/c he plans to RE in 15 months, and our plans do NOT include financing his Dad when he screws up and runs out of money.  Hubby feels a sense of obligation and guilt, even though he has seen a lifetime of bad financial decisions by his parents.  So when hubby woke up, I told him about the transfer of funds, and suggested that he not go out of his way to help his Dad clean up his accounts or feel guilty about this anymore. I told him, I'm not wasting my time on this anymore; it's obvious that the advice is being ignored, so let him do what he wants, and if he does run out of money, he can figure it out on his own.

I have a wise relative who sums it up thus: "You can't care about someone else's problems more than they do."

I’m late to reading Hunny’s post - you could be writing about my MIL...where my husband spent a week and a half sifting through accounts, bills, and years of late fees, to have it all fall apart within days of leaving.

Now he practices saying the phrase, “ gee, mom, I’m so sorry! It sounds like you have a problem!” when something inevitably crops up. End of discussion. No point in going over solutions - it’s better to not engage, because she’s not at a crisis point yet of being forced to deal with anything. It’s a great waste of money, though - SS plus 2 partial pensions plus whatever savings are squirreled away - and she will likely need it later. BUT you can’t make a person do anything :(

[Cb1234567]

Removed ourselves from family drama a few years ago, so this info is from reliable second-hand sources who are still in the thick of it.  The parents are living well beyond their means and are underemployed (at retirement age) to afford the home they are in. They had some rent and living cost help for more than a year while housing another family member, but that was never enough to cover true expenses and now that room is empty again and the gap is getting wider each month. Many of us gave money in the last few years, but after we gave 'emergency' help and later saw it going towards unnecessary renovations instead of food and mortgage we stepped way back. We recognized that we could not control where money given was spent, and did not like how the emergency persisted even as flooring was upgraded and other decorating took precedence.
Present day: the sole worker in the family had planned surgery and was off work for a month, so the emergency calls for money to cover mortgage went out the day before it was due. 2 people were moved to wire funds immediately to help out (although they later said, what kind of plan for optional surgery wouldn't account for this main expense?). Apparently they did plan - by calling the bank and getting the credit limit stretched (yikes). The next day the update is that mom has ordered a new mattress with the line of credit. Because - free money! and 'we needed it'. The people who did contribute are currently making plans to not be reachable during the next 'emergency'. Which is of course, now since they are actually, finally moving but don't have a last months payment on the mortgage. I'm sure they also won't have the funds for the moving truck, but I'm not going to ask questions to that effect.

How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

[TomTX]

How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

Skipped going to the Christmas dramafest, don't go to my sister's at all.

[SwordGuy]

How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

Requests for help due to self-induced stupidity are declined and riposted with observations on how they could do something they don't want to do to make it better.

Calls about how awful "the other person is" are met with non-committal responses, somewhat more politely phrased than "Sucks to be you.", but with the same end result.   Bonus points for observing the behavior they are complaining about might be a rational response to their own misbegotten choices.

Lend no sympathetic ear.   Offer no assistance.   Point out their faults and failures if they annoy you enough.   In short, give them nothing they want and a fair bit of what they don't want so they are no longer motivated to include you in their douchebaggery.

[ysette9]

This sounds a lot like how I deal with my 5 year-old’s drama. :)

[zolotiyeruki]

This sounds a lot like how I deal with my 5 year-old’s drama. :)

LOL, so true! "Well, why did you *think* would happen if you did <dumb thing like hitting your older sibling>?" is not that far from "Didn't you stop to consider that blowing $100 on a night out wouldn't make it harder to make it to next payday? "

[Monerexia]

How is this accomplished? Please advise 😇

Requests for help due to self-induced stupidity are declined and riposted with observations on how they could do something they don't want to do to make it better.

Calls about how awful "the other person is" are met with non-committal responses, somewhat more politely phrased than "Sucks to be you.", but with the same end result.   Bonus points for observing the behavior they are complaining about might be a rational response to their own misbegotten choices.

Lend no sympathetic ear.   Offer no assistance.   Point out their faults and failures if they annoy you enough.   In short, give them nothing they want and a fair bit of what they don't want so they are no longer motivated to include you in their douchebaggery.

Perfect. Douchebaggery is right. Myself, I tried to help them in an emotionally effortful (unhelpful) way for well over a decade. Now, I say fuckem.

[markbike528CBX]

Has any member here printed or copied this thread for the "benefit"  of the losers in their life?

Bonus points for:
 a) providing link to thread
 b) specifically circling/highlighting exact post about them or identical circumstances.

Fortunately, no one in my life has pissed me off enough to "make" me do this, although some are from the same cookie cutter as some in-thread examples.

[accountingteacher]

They partied and went to every concert and never changed the oil in their cars. 

To be fair, going to every concert in Seattle in the 1990s would have been pretty awesome!

[markbike528CBX]

They partied and went to every concert and never changed the oil in their cars. 

However, the UofW Hub ballroom shows were 4 bands 4 bucks (for students, $6 otherwise).  I was in graduate school at the time so my show-watching was limited by 60-70 hour weeks.

Sources:  google hub ballroom shows 1990 and images.

Feb 25 1989
The Fluid, Skin Yard, Girl Trouble, Nirvana  --- don't think I saw that one.
January 6 1990
Crunchbird, Gits, TAD, Nirvana -- I believe I saw this one, as they are (in)famous for destroying instruments, which I remember, but I wasn't  that impressed.  I vaguely remember TAD.

Edit, for quotes 

[AlanStache]

@ MissNancyPryor:

They might be lazy dumb fuck stoners but some of what you write comes off as blaming them for not foreseeing a real estate run up.  Owing a primary residence is often a financially good move but there are alternatives.  Putting them down for failing to plain is one thing; putting them down for not buying pre-run of real estate/bitcoin/AMZN is something else. 

I am currently selling a condo that I will loose ~30% on sale price with over 12 years; so maybe that is biasing my thoughts.  Home prices go down too.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[DadJokes]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

[Cassie]

Dad, your dad has a lot of debt for a older person. We drive our cars until dead or not worth repairing.

[Goldielocks]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

The grumpy cat avatar works exceptionally well with this dialogue.

"...."  indeed!

[Mormon Money Mustache]

My FIL is a hardcore hoarder.  Just like you see on the tv shows.

My BIL visited last week from out of town and told me that his dad (my FIL) asked him to help my FIL develop a plan for retirement. My FIL is 60 years old.

My BIL sits with his dad (my FIL) to go over finances.  My FIL has $450k sitting in a savings account.  He just inherited this money last year so he hasn't spent it yet.  He also had a $100k annuity he just opened.  My FIL had no information on the annuity, not even the name of the financial institution he opened the annuity with.

FIL owns 6 white work vans.  He doesnt have a business or a reason to own these.  He simply fills them with junk and parks them around town.  Be pays over $1200 a month in car insurance.  He also owns 4 storage units all filled with junk.  He gives over $500 a month to his girlfriend.  He also spends thousands a month buying expensive tools and construction equipment for his hoard.  FIL makes approximately $30k a year.  He also had 10 credit cards, most of them maxed out.

BIL told his dad (my FIL) that any retirement plan needed to begin with the clearing and liquidation of the hoard.  FIL refuses and also refuses professional help.  At the rate he's going through his money, we believe he will spend all of his inheritance within 5 years.

Not sure how he plans to to retire.  Also don't know if FIL expects us to take care of him once he's broke.

WTF? 6 vans?

[Just Joe]

What's the point of all the unused tools? I have lots of tools but I use them!

[Sibley]

My mom was visiting last week and over the weekend. Had a conversation with her about their house, future plans, etc. Vent incoming.

Their house is older, and has plaster & lathe. Not really a problem, except that the plaster keys are breaking and there's evidence of this in multiple rooms. This is a BIG repair job and they're just not up to it in any way. It's not critical (yet), but realistically it's best if they sell the house in the next year or 2. Mom's eyesight isn't the best so she wasn't aware of the problem. Not sure if dad knows.

Separately, the excuse we've given dad that he needs to keep working is that there's no other decent health insurance option for mom until she turns 65 and is eligible for Medicare. Which is true. But there's 2 other reasons. One being money - they've made a series of poor financial decisions over decades, and they just don't have enough saved up. Coupled with the fact that their budgeting ability seems to have gone out the window. A drop down to the SS + small pension + small amount out of the 401k would be at least a 50% budget cut. Mom "knows" this, but doesn't really know it. The other reason is once he stops working, we have every reason to be concerned that dad would do nothing all day, every day and die within a year. He's got zero hobbies and interests outside of work.

So, mom's plan is that dad will retire next year or whenever, they'll sell the house, then move closer to me and buy a house.

Problems: the house is FULL of stuff. Mom says that she'll have no problem getting rid of 95% of it. I know better. The battles we've fought already over what to keep and what to get rid of... and that's with nothing leaving the house. But that has resulted in a basement full of boxes labeled "sell". Ok. How? Who? Mom is not capable of this. Dad isn't. Which leaves me or my sister, and neither of us live in the area anymore.

And she wants to buy a house near me. Ok. Might be possible, depends on how much they sell the current house for and what's left over after taxes. But one of the reasons they need to sell the current house is they can't do the maintenance or repairs that it needs.

Plus the potential timing issues, they've got 2 cats, I've got 2 cats, combining 4 cats into my house even temporarily is a bad idea, etc. This whole thing is not going to go well. And mom's rose colored lenses on reality are just going to make it harder/drive me batty.

I need to call my sister. Because its looking like this train is pulling into the station in 2021, regardless if there's a station built yet.

[DadJokes]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

[mm1970]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

What freaks me out about all this is that...

Your dad is what, 56?  I mean, shouldn't he know better?

But also:  I'm almost 50.  This guy is basically my age.  I thought people my age were smarter.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

What freaks me out about all this is that...

Your dad is what, 56?  I mean, shouldn't he know better?

But also:  I'm almost 50.  This guy is basically my age.  I thought people my age were smarter.

I'm 48. Can confirm that I have not gotten smarter with age.....

[Taran Wanderer]

I'm 48. Can confirm that I have not gotten smarter with age.....

I honestly feel like with age I know more, but I'm getting dumber.

[ixtap]

Can't teach and old dog new tricks and all.

However, contrary to the spirit of this thread, my brother in his 50s seems to be getting his act together!

[ender]

People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

[By the River]

People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

There's no way that the oil field will bust in the next 14 years reducing the need for aging oil field truck drivers     /s

[TomTX]

People are overwhelming naive about being able to continue to get employment in their 60s.

It's possible. It's just not remotely as easy in most fields.

There's no way that the oil field will bust in the next 14 years reducing the need for aging oil field truck drivers     /s

Texas oilfield companies have been laying people off for the past ~6 months. Relatively slowly at this point, but that's the trend.

[Just Joe]

Can a person drive commercial tanker trucks when they are 70+ years old?

[Paul der Krake]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

[PrairieBeardstache]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

[solon]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Wow! I got a testosterone boost just looking at that truck. Be sure to watch the promo video too.

[Just Joe]

CAT makes some enormous equipment. I visited their Peoria proving grounds once and they brought out one of these to show off. Had no idea those things could get so big.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/dozers/large-dozers/18332635.html

[Dave1442397]

Can a person drive commercial tanker trucks when they are 70+ years old?

I worked with a guy who was 55 when he decided to get his CDL, thinking he would go drive trucks when he got laid off (we saw it coming, back in 2008).

He lasted a few weeks before quitting his first driving job. He didn't realize all the lifting and moving things he'd have to do, and it was too much for him. Last I heard he was driving school buses.

[Uturn]

When my dad retired, he got a CDL and a job driving school buses. He figured it would be a great retirement job because he loves kids, it should be low stress, and he really only wanted the job for something to do and some pocket change.  He lasted 3 days.  Something about unruly brats. 

He then got a job delivering new school buses.  That didn't last long because the hours were too much. 

He then bought a used tractor and brush hog.  He mowed peoples' pastures, grated driveways, and such like that.  He told his customers that his rates are the lowest in town because he is the tractor guy.  Not the shovel guy, not the move shit out of the way guy, the tractor guy, I'm old.  He was happy, customers were happy.  Mom was happy because he wasn't at home complaining about being bored. 

[Paul der Krake]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Yup, and these jobs tend to be hyper-local... as in you lose it you're never getting something that good again. Regular tractor trailer or UPS truck for you it is.

[PrairieBeardstache]

That man is going to have a rude awakening when he realizes nobody is hiring new truck drivers at 115k/year...

I assume it's not the typical "truck" highway tractor. Because they mention oil field and a high salary. In that case I suspect it's a mining truck, like a Cat 797F (https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/equipment/off-highway-trucks/mining-trucks/1419085212260969.html). They definitely pay the operators that much and I've personally seen mining operators spend all of their money on all kinds of things. In fact, I was shocked once to walk into a mine and see a wall posted full of the employees toys (cars, motorcycles, boats, ATs, etc.), I thought it was a for sale board. It wasn't, it was a Safety board to remind the employees of what they're working for so they can keep safe.

Yup, and these jobs tend to be hyper-local... as in you lose it you're never getting something that good again. Regular tractor trailer or UPS truck for you it is.

That's actually not true. The oil fields may be because they're close to a big urban center. But the other mines all fly in operators from major cities for 2 week in, 2 week out rotations. It's not uncommon for people to switch working at one mine and go to another 3,000km away but not move houses.

[Car Jack]

When my dad retired, he got a CDL and a job driving school buses. He figured it would be a great retirement job because he loves kids, it should be low stress, and he really only wanted the job for something to do and some pocket change.  He lasted 3 days.  Something about unruly brats. 

If they're grandchildren doing the exact same thing, they're adorable.  And of course the grandparents are only there for a short stint, then go away.  Other people's kids are unruly brats.