Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 2064340 times)

nancyfrank232

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5550 on: November 11, 2019, 12:39:33 PM »
I don’t have children, so I find stuff like this extra hard to understand. Is it really that hard to say no to them? I have a friend who’s TERRIBLE with money AND underemployed. Has his son some weekends. The guy is capable of cooking, but never cooks or buys groceries because “I can’t afford it. I have no time. I have to feed the kid properly.” It’s nothing more than an inability to recognize and change constantly poor choices. So, what does he do to feed the kid? Goes to a restaurant. He could buy $30-50 of groceries and feed himself and the kid all meals for days, but spends on restaurant food and fast food, then runs out of money and falls behind on bills. Dude, you make minimum wage and have huge debt payments. Paying people to prepare your food is the last thing you should be doing. It’s such a horrible cycle and sad to watch.

Stories like this is why I never feel bad raising the rent on my tenants. I know most people waste their money

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5551 on: November 11, 2019, 12:42:55 PM »
I love my sister, she's a great person but is pretty bad with money. She says she needs a new couch, a new mattress and a new car but she doesn't have the money. The mattress I get, it's pretty old. She could take public transportation to work and save the wear and tear on the car she has and hold off on the couch. BUT in the same conversation she told me that she bought my niece a $150 set of headphones! If you don't have money for a new mattress to replace the one that's 30 years old then you definitely don't need to buy your kid an expensive pair of headphones that she'll probably loose or have stolen.

I don’t have children, so I find stuff like this extra hard to understand. Is it really that hard to say no to them? I have a friend who’s TERRIBLE with money AND underemployed. Has his son some weekends. The guy is capable of cooking, but never cooks or buys groceries because “I can’t afford it. I have no time. I have to feed the kid properly.” It’s nothing more than an inability to recognize and change constantly poor choices. So, what does he do to feed the kid? Goes to a restaurant. He could buy $30-50 of groceries and feed himself and the kid all meals for days, but spends on restaurant food and fast food, then runs out of money and falls behind on bills. Dude, you make minimum wage and have huge debt payments. Paying people to prepare your food is the last thing you should be doing. It’s such a horrible cycle and sad to watch.

Maybe invite them over and have them help you cook?  Then they can both (a) learn that they CAN cook and (b) that it can be a fun bonding thing to do.   

DutchGirl

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5552 on: November 11, 2019, 01:40:31 PM »

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

Then again, if she actually got all the work done that they were paying her for between 2 PM and 5 PM, I'd argue that the bosses shouldn't complain. They probably hired her to do a job, they were willing to pay her $xxk for it, and she got the job done. Of course it could have been more useful and everybody would have been a bit happier if the bosses had just told her to do a specific list of tasks and nobody cared when she did them as long as they got done. She'd come in at 12 and would have gone home by 4 PM and would have been less obnoxious to the rest of you guys.

stashja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5553 on: November 11, 2019, 05:03:50 PM »
People, tell me if I need to stop posting every time my parents reward my loser brother for his total lack of Emersonian self-reliance or basic intellectual maturity...

Until we get there, here we go again. Brother, age 37 (or as my partner calls him, Monsieur-37-going-on-15), who lives with our parents, convinced them to give him about $1000 to fly last minute from PA to Seattle and stay in a swanky hotel for four days so that he could tell a potential employer that he happened to be in Seattle should they want to talk about hiring him. I found out because I have been to Seattle for a conference once, so parents asked me to recommend a swanky hotel. (I have no idea. I stayed in a dorm room. I told them that and recommended hotels.com.)

Anyway....

New Girlfriend went with him but she/her family covered her airfare. He took her out for dinners and luxury entertainment, then Employer was suddenly tied up and never met with him. 37 says that they have followed up by email and he’s first choice for Swanky Job should it become available. (There is in fact high turnover in his field, so employer might not be lying.)

This is shopped to me as an example of Taking Initiative, etc etc. Possibly his industry is so corrupt and full of over privileged jerks that they will give him this job. I guess that’s the best possible outcome because my parents won’t need to repeat this particular rescue mission.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 05:09:21 PM by stashja »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5554 on: November 11, 2019, 10:15:39 PM »

Linea_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5555 on: November 12, 2019, 01:09:10 AM »
People, tell me if I need to stop posting every time my parents reward my loser brother for his total lack of Emersonian self-reliance or basic intellectual maturity...

Until we get there, here we go again. Brother, age 37 (or as my partner calls him, Monsieur-37-going-on-15), who lives with our parents, convinced them to give him about $1000 to fly last minute from PA to Seattle and stay in a swanky hotel for four days so that he could tell a potential employer that he happened to be in Seattle should they want to talk about hiring him. I found out because I have been to Seattle for a conference once, so parents asked me to recommend a swanky hotel. (I have no idea. I stayed in a dorm room. I told them that and recommended hotels.com.)

Anyway....

New Girlfriend went with him but she/her family covered her airfare. He took her out for dinners and luxury entertainment, then Employer was suddenly tied up and never met with him. 37 says that they have followed up by email and he’s first choice for Swanky Job should it become available. (There is in fact high turnover in his field, so employer might not be lying.)

This is shopped to me as an example of Taking Initiative, etc etc. Possibly his industry is so corrupt and full of over privileged jerks that they will give him this job. I guess that’s the best possible outcome because my parents won’t need to repeat this particular rescue mission.

Is he applying for a job in the Trump administration? Homeland Security chief or so?

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5556 on: November 12, 2019, 01:58:06 AM »

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

Then again, if she actually got all the work done that they were paying her for between 2 PM and 5 PM, I'd argue that the bosses shouldn't complain. They probably hired her to do a job, they were willing to pay her $xxk for it, and she got the job done. Of course it could have been more useful and everybody would have been a bit happier if the bosses had just told her to do a specific list of tasks and nobody cared when she did them as long as they got done. She'd come in at 12 and would have gone home by 4 PM and would have been less obnoxious to the rest of you guys.

I have the type of job where my boss is fully aware that I don't have much to do half of the month and is ok with that, because in our field it's critical that I'm available to work very hard the other half of the month.

I'm in grad school so I keep busy by doing coursework and sometimes writing short memo's about how this or that development will have influence on our work. I volunteer to take work over from coworkers when I can. Still I notice this slowly damages my motivation even though I like my work - when there's work. I can totally imagine that after years of this someone stops caring and starts to play solitaire to kill the time. Someone should have told her to read MMM's blog instead...

stashja

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5557 on: November 12, 2019, 02:44:59 AM »
"Is he applying for a job in the Trump administration? Homeland Security chief or so?"

No. not government. This is just idiotic.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5558 on: November 12, 2019, 05:15:32 AM »
"Is he applying for a job in the Trump administration? Homeland Security chief or so?"

No. not government. This is just idiotic.

Sarcasm.   That is an example of sarcasm of the topical political humor category.

DaMa

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5559 on: November 12, 2019, 10:56:59 AM »

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

This post could have been about me, except for the part about coming in late. I had a lot of time with not enough work to do.  I used to do personal paperwork at work.  I also taught myself VBA, SAS, and SQL in my downtime.  I read all the industry magazines and newspapers that were in the office.  Once we had internet access I did copious research on healthcare and insurance issues, including reading actual legislation, like the Medicare Modernization Act, and almost every HPMS memo CMS put out from 2005-2018.

I'm a reader, love to learn new things, and am very efficient.  My manager always knew I had time for more work.  But my employer was (and still is) seriously overstaffed.  Other people were horribly territorial, because they didn't have enough work to do either.  I was ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder, but once I got high enough to really see what was going on, I said "Oh, hell no" and started on my path to FIRE.



Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5560 on: November 12, 2019, 03:51:51 PM »
I love my sister, she's a great person but is pretty bad with money. She says she needs a new couch, a new mattress and a new car but she doesn't have the money. The mattress I get, it's pretty old. She could take public transportation to work and save the wear and tear on the car she has and hold off on the couch. BUT in the same conversation she told me that she bought my niece a $150 set of headphones! If you don't have money for a new mattress to replace the one that's 30 years old then you definitely don't need to buy your kid an expensive pair of headphones that she'll probably loose or have stolen.

Or they'll break.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 03:56:49 PM by Just Joe »

auntie_betty

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5561 on: November 17, 2019, 02:31:55 AM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5562 on: November 17, 2019, 09:25:40 AM »

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

Then again, if she actually got all the work done that they were paying her for between 2 PM and 5 PM, I'd argue that the bosses shouldn't complain. They probably hired her to do a job, they were willing to pay her $xxk for it, and she got the job done. Of course it could have been more useful and everybody would have been a bit happier if the bosses had just told her to do a specific list of tasks and nobody cared when she did them as long as they got done. She'd come in at 12 and would have gone home by 4 PM and would have been less obnoxious to the rest of you guys.


It was a 40  hour a week job and she did maybe 3 hours of work a day. She had a couple of bosses who had their heads in the sand and were so busy themselves, they didn't have time to monitor her activities that were not work. They actually trusted her and she took advantage. It was a team oriented work place. If you actually ran out of things to do, which was almost never for me, then it was common practice to offer to help others with their work. It  might only be an hour or two but was appreciated. Our work loads were incredible and never ending for most of us. I had between 3 and 4 people needing my services every single day. She was known to be a  miserable, lazy person who was just not a team player and no one wanted to even ask her to do anything. Plus, she had one lady boss who felt compassion for her due to the fact she had 3 children. Not fair to cater to people who have children compared to those who have none. Should be equal treatment. I do blame her bosses for allowing her to mismanage her time. It was not a job that you were given an assignment, do it as fast as you can and then goof off the rest of the day. Would have been fine with me if she worked 3 hours and went home as long as she got paid for only 3 hours! However, at that time there were no part time people.


ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5563 on: November 18, 2019, 10:50:33 AM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

iris lily

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5564 on: November 18, 2019, 11:08:52 AM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.
this is hilarious!

auntie_betty

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5565 on: November 18, 2019, 01:34:33 PM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.
this is hilarious!
Oh yes, very funny.

Wait till you find out you don't get Bank Holidays either!!!!!!!

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5566 on: November 18, 2019, 03:58:15 PM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.
this is hilarious!

I'm sad to say, from recent personal experience, it's not funny at all. :(   

calimom

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5567 on: November 19, 2019, 10:14:55 PM »
Quote
I used to do personal paperwork at work.
When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Some work from home. Some home from work.

eyesonthehorizon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5568 on: November 24, 2019, 03:23:19 AM »
It was a 40  hour a week job and she did maybe 3 hours of work a day. ... The[bosses] actually trusted her and she took advantage. It was a team oriented work place. If you actually ran out of things to do, which was almost never for me, then it was common practice to offer to help others with their work. It  might only be an hour or two but was appreciated. Our work loads were incredible and never ending for most of us. I had between 3 and 4 people needing my services every single day. ....

Dealing with this myself right now, same situation: workload is by team, and we're stuck with a really poor (selfish, lazy) team player. I'm struggling with morale already, and knowing that I work eight hours at full steam, they work two casually, and we're regarded & compensated the same is crushing. I wish I could ignore it, or maybe just work at 98% of my peak capacity and catch my breath. I just couldn't live with myself shortchanging the team. It's almost harder because I know I could walk away - real first-world whine, but in the past I had to struggle through it for the check; now that I can afford a little dignity, the insult is sharper.

Anybody find a way around this? I don't see it changing, but it's also the first time I've ever felt like my job was a net positive between personal compensation, personal sacrifice, & general impact.

Yanisimo

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5569 on: December 04, 2019, 07:17:04 PM »
This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5570 on: December 04, 2019, 10:29:08 PM »
That's just sad.

gooki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5571 on: December 05, 2019, 12:23:01 AM »
You learnt an important lesson today.

PVD_Kev

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5572 on: December 05, 2019, 08:50:45 AM »
But think about all the CO2 you are exhaling! You should be ashamed...  /s

I used to have a boss who would in all seriousness argue that him driving to work in his big Mercedes was better for the environment than me cycling, because it would be years before the pollution from the production of the steel my bike was made from was compensated and it would take even longer because I need to eat extra food due to all my cycling. Of course his Merc wasn't made from metal and doesn't need fuel :/

Guy even used the "trust me I'm an engineer" argument.

Engineers are consistently the most convinced in their "false negative" error when it comes to climate change and emissions.  It's...bizarre.

On thread:  My father (80 yo) loves to say things like "Well, the plane is going to fly whether you buy a ticket or not."  Of course, Mister Supply-and-Demand-are-Immutable-Laws-of-Nature never sees the fallacy in his statement.  Good thing I love the guy or he'd drive me crazy!

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5573 on: December 05, 2019, 08:16:13 PM »
Loving someone and them driving you crazy are not mutually exclusive

six-car-habit

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5574 on: December 05, 2019, 11:46:22 PM »
This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

Tabitha

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5575 on: Today at 06:42:56 AM »

BiL passed away 8 years ago, when nephew was 20. Much upheaval and SiL has been on economic support since.  None of this family had any money sense, living in the moment.
Nephew had already lost his DrLic in his teens due to unpaid fines. Makes it difficult to find work in a city underserved by public transit. We’d offered a few ways he could help us in return for funds to pay off a substantial chunk of the debt, but reasons.
On top of general lack of ambition, Nephew was hit hard by dad’s death. Many reasons/excuses why not continuing in school, even when his employer at the time explained that lack of paper is why he stayed hourly instead of the continued job he wanted.
In some ways he is smart. Recently current Big Employer recognized him with a year-end bonus, large in proportion to current wages and not normally available to his level.
Does he pay off fines? He does not
Does he apply for employer’s continuing education programs? Nope
Use some of the bonus money to pursue some other credentials? Nah
Pay off the high interest car loan that was all his live-in GF could qualify for? Please.
But he’s very proud of the top-end gaming laptop and big screen TV he bought this week. Sigh.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5576 on: Today at 07:13:30 AM »

BiL passed away 8 years ago, when nephew was 20. Much upheaval and SiL has been on economic support since.  None of this family had any money sense, living in the moment.
Nephew had already lost his DrLic in his teens due to unpaid fines. Makes it difficult to find work in a city underserved by public transit. We’d offered a few ways he could help us in return for funds to pay off a substantial chunk of the debt, but reasons.
On top of general lack of ambition, Nephew was hit hard by dad’s death. Many reasons/excuses why not continuing in school, even when his employer at the time explained that lack of paper is why he stayed hourly instead of the continued job he wanted.
In some ways he is smart. Recently current Big Employer recognized him with a year-end bonus, large in proportion to current wages and not normally available to his level.
Does he pay off fines? He does not
Does he apply for employer’s continuing education programs? Nope
Use some of the bonus money to pursue some other credentials? Nah
Pay off the high interest car loan that was all his live-in GF could qualify for? Please.
But he’s very proud of the top-end gaming laptop and big screen TV he bought this week. Sigh.

Sigh is right. :(

So he's still without a driver's license? For 10+ years? Just for fines? (Not for DUI, ect.?) Wow. That's some serious lack of motivation.

Tabitha

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5577 on: Today at 07:45:26 PM »
Sigh is right. :(

So he's still without a driver's license? For 10+ years? Just for fines? (Not for DUI, ect.?) Wow. That's some serious lack of motivation.

It was >$750 in fines, surcharges, and “don’t ignore the state fees” payable to The State of NY.  All due to speeding/parking. Zero DUI. I have determinedly not asked if interest was accumulating. As you say, lack of motivation. Venting here helps me keep my mouth shut elsewhere. Not my circus.