Relatives who just don't get it

[jinga nation]

People like this are a good reason to get advanced training or a college degree. Never want any daily doses of him IRL. Share as much as you want about him here however. ;)

Nope. Stupidity isn't exclusive to the uneducated. It exists even at MBA, PhD and MD levels. People with education and years of experience still attempt to rationalize their stupid behavior.
I work with govt civilians with or without prior military experience, with or without college degrees. 95% of them say and make stupid decisions. So do many contractors, including this post's author.

[Linea_Norway]

Lazy guy got that hardship loan from his company and shows no appreciation. He finds hiding places to take naps while on the clock. At this point no one has turned him in but coworkers are disgruntled that he is getting away with this behavior. It is only a mater of time before this guy gets fired.

Once he gets fired then what?

We have a coworker who always arrives very late at work, like around noon. He doesn't sit in the open office area, but downstairs in a test lab where no one notices whether he has arrived or not. But some of us (more than just me) got a little upset about this and asked a person who can look in the hours registration whether she could see if he cheated. But apparently he registered his hours at the correct time. Then we didn't worry about it anymore. It is not our job to follow him up. But it would have been very unfair if he reported in more hours than he actually worked, while we others have to work for them.

[Roadrunner53]

There are weasels everywhere. I used to work at this place where we had to punch in for our shift and out at the end of the day. This one guy would punch in THEN leave the building to pick up his girlfriend who also worked there. They both were not teens but middle aged people.

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot and claim she was doing some shopping for work reasons. Her kids would call her at work as soon as they got home from school and she would spend time taking their phone calls. The phone would be ringing off the hook. About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

I worked with this engineering intern one summer. He was assigned to one of our most intelligent young engineers we had in our company. If there was a mechanical issue he would have no problem crawling on his back under a machine to find out what was going on. The intern couldn't be bothered to follow lead and learn from this genius engineer. He was ho hum all the time. What a waste of a summer and he lost a grand opportunity to learn from one of the best.

[Just Joe]

Two employers I worked for had rounds of firings after people would clock in and then go home. At one employer it was just a few random brave individuals who were caught and fired. At the other place they fired a whole maintenance department.

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

I love my sister, she's a great person but is pretty bad with money. She says she needs a new couch, a new mattress and a new car but she doesn't have the money. The mattress I get, it's pretty old. She could take public transportation to work and save the wear and tear on the car she has and hold off on the couch. BUT in the same conversation she told me that she bought my niece a $150 set of headphones! If you don't have money for a new mattress to replace the one that's 30 years old then you definitely don't need to buy your kid an expensive pair of headphones that she'll probably loose or have stolen.

[Step37]

I love my sister, she's a great person but is pretty bad with money. She says she needs a new couch, a new mattress and a new car but she doesn't have the money. The mattress I get, it's pretty old. She could take public transportation to work and save the wear and tear on the car she has and hold off on the couch. BUT in the same conversation she told me that she bought my niece a $150 set of headphones! If you don't have money for a new mattress to replace the one that's 30 years old then you definitely don't need to buy your kid an expensive pair of headphones that she'll probably loose or have stolen.

I don’t have children, so I find stuff like this extra hard to understand. Is it really that hard to say no to them? I have a friend who’s TERRIBLE with money AND underemployed. Has his son some weekends. The guy is capable of cooking, but never cooks or buys groceries because “I can’t afford it. I have no time. I have to feed the kid properly.” It’s nothing more than an inability to recognize and change constantly poor choices. So, what does he do to feed the kid? Goes to a restaurant. He could buy $30-50 of groceries and feed himself and the kid all meals for days, but spends on restaurant food and fast food, then runs out of money and falls behind on bills. Dude, you make minimum wage and have huge debt payments. Paying people to prepare your food is the last thing you should be doing. It’s such a horrible cycle and sad to watch.

[nancyfrank232]

I don’t have children, so I find stuff like this extra hard to understand. Is it really that hard to say no to them? I have a friend who’s TERRIBLE with money AND underemployed. Has his son some weekends. The guy is capable of cooking, but never cooks or buys groceries because “I can’t afford it. I have no time. I have to feed the kid properly.” It’s nothing more than an inability to recognize and change constantly poor choices. So, what does he do to feed the kid? Goes to a restaurant. He could buy $30-50 of groceries and feed himself and the kid all meals for days, but spends on restaurant food and fast food, then runs out of money and falls behind on bills. Dude, you make minimum wage and have huge debt payments. Paying people to prepare your food is the last thing you should be doing. It’s such a horrible cycle and sad to watch.

Stories like this is why I never feel bad raising the rent on my tenants. I know most people waste their money

[SwordGuy]

I love my sister, she's a great person but is pretty bad with money. She says she needs a new couch, a new mattress and a new car but she doesn't have the money. The mattress I get, it's pretty old. She could take public transportation to work and save the wear and tear on the car she has and hold off on the couch. BUT in the same conversation she told me that she bought my niece a $150 set of headphones! If you don't have money for a new mattress to replace the one that's 30 years old then you definitely don't need to buy your kid an expensive pair of headphones that she'll probably loose or have stolen.

I don’t have children, so I find stuff like this extra hard to understand. Is it really that hard to say no to them? I have a friend who’s TERRIBLE with money AND underemployed. Has his son some weekends. The guy is capable of cooking, but never cooks or buys groceries because “I can’t afford it. I have no time. I have to feed the kid properly.” It’s nothing more than an inability to recognize and change constantly poor choices. So, what does he do to feed the kid? Goes to a restaurant. He could buy $30-50 of groceries and feed himself and the kid all meals for days, but spends on restaurant food and fast food, then runs out of money and falls behind on bills. Dude, you make minimum wage and have huge debt payments. Paying people to prepare your food is the last thing you should be doing. It’s such a horrible cycle and sad to watch.

Maybe invite them over and have them help you cook?  Then they can both (a) learn that they CAN cook and (b) that it can be a fun bonding thing to do.   

[DutchGirl]

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

Then again, if she actually got all the work done that they were paying her for between 2 PM and 5 PM, I'd argue that the bosses shouldn't complain. They probably hired her to do a job, they were willing to pay her $xxk for it, and she got the job done. Of course it could have been more useful and everybody would have been a bit happier if the bosses had just told her to do a specific list of tasks and nobody cared when she did them as long as they got done. She'd come in at 12 and would have gone home by 4 PM and would have been less obnoxious to the rest of you guys.

[stashja]

People, tell me if I need to stop posting every time my parents reward my loser brother for his total lack of Emersonian self-reliance or basic intellectual maturity...

Until we get there, here we go again. Brother, age 37 (or as my partner calls him, Monsieur-37-going-on-15), who lives with our parents, convinced them to give him about $1000 to fly last minute from PA to Seattle and stay in a swanky hotel for four days so that he could tell a potential employer that he happened to be in Seattle should they want to talk about hiring him. I found out because I have been to Seattle for a conference once, so parents asked me to recommend a swanky hotel. (I have no idea. I stayed in a dorm room. I told them that and recommended hotels.com.)

Anyway....

New Girlfriend went with him but she/her family covered her airfare. He took her out for dinners and luxury entertainment, then Employer was suddenly tied up and never met with him. 37 says that they have followed up by email and he’s first choice for Swanky Job should it become available. (There is in fact high turnover in his field, so employer might not be lying.)

This is shopped to me as an example of Taking Initiative, etc etc. Possibly his industry is so corrupt and full of over privileged jerks that they will give him this job. I guess that’s the best possible outcome because my parents won’t need to repeat this particular rescue mission.

[Taran Wanderer]

[Linea_Norway]

People, tell me if I need to stop posting every time my parents reward my loser brother for his total lack of Emersonian self-reliance or basic intellectual maturity...

Until we get there, here we go again. Brother, age 37 (or as my partner calls him, Monsieur-37-going-on-15), who lives with our parents, convinced them to give him about $1000 to fly last minute from PA to Seattle and stay in a swanky hotel for four days so that he could tell a potential employer that he happened to be in Seattle should they want to talk about hiring him. I found out because I have been to Seattle for a conference once, so parents asked me to recommend a swanky hotel. (I have no idea. I stayed in a dorm room. I told them that and recommended hotels.com.)

Anyway....

New Girlfriend went with him but she/her family covered her airfare. He took her out for dinners and luxury entertainment, then Employer was suddenly tied up and never met with him. 37 says that they have followed up by email and he’s first choice for Swanky Job should it become available. (There is in fact high turnover in his field, so employer might not be lying.)

This is shopped to me as an example of Taking Initiative, etc etc. Possibly his industry is so corrupt and full of over privileged jerks that they will give him this job. I guess that’s the best possible outcome because my parents won’t need to repeat this particular rescue mission.

Is he applying for a job in the Trump administration? Homeland Security chief or so?

[Imma]

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

Then again, if she actually got all the work done that they were paying her for between 2 PM and 5 PM, I'd argue that the bosses shouldn't complain. They probably hired her to do a job, they were willing to pay her $xxk for it, and she got the job done. Of course it could have been more useful and everybody would have been a bit happier if the bosses had just told her to do a specific list of tasks and nobody cared when she did them as long as they got done. She'd come in at 12 and would have gone home by 4 PM and would have been less obnoxious to the rest of you guys.

I have the type of job where my boss is fully aware that I don't have much to do half of the month and is ok with that, because in our field it's critical that I'm available to work very hard the other half of the month.

I'm in grad school so I keep busy by doing coursework and sometimes writing short memo's about how this or that development will have influence on our work. I volunteer to take work over from coworkers when I can. Still I notice this slowly damages my motivation even though I like my work - when there's work. I can totally imagine that after years of this someone stops caring and starts to play solitaire to kill the time. Someone should have told her to read MMM's blog instead...

[stashja]

"Is he applying for a job in the Trump administration? Homeland Security chief or so?"

No. not government. This is just idiotic.

[SwordGuy]

"Is he applying for a job in the Trump administration? Homeland Security chief or so?"

No. not government. This is just idiotic.

Sarcasm.   That is an example of sarcasm of the topical political humor category.

[DaMa]

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

This post could have been about me, except for the part about coming in late. I had a lot of time with not enough work to do.  I used to do personal paperwork at work.  I also taught myself VBA, SAS, and SQL in my downtime.  I read all the industry magazines and newspapers that were in the office.  Once we had internet access I did copious research on healthcare and insurance issues, including reading actual legislation, like the Medicare Modernization Act, and almost every HPMS memo CMS put out from 2005-2018.

I'm a reader, love to learn new things, and am very efficient.  My manager always knew I had time for more work.  But my employer was (and still is) seriously overstaffed.  Other people were horribly territorial, because they didn't have enough work to do either.  I was ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder, but once I got high enough to really see what was going on, I said "Oh, hell no" and started on my path to FIRE.

[Just Joe]

I love my sister, she's a great person but is pretty bad with money. She says she needs a new couch, a new mattress and a new car but she doesn't have the money. The mattress I get, it's pretty old. She could take public transportation to work and save the wear and tear on the car she has and hold off on the couch. BUT in the same conversation she told me that she bought my niece a $150 set of headphones! If you don't have money for a new mattress to replace the one that's 30 years old then you definitely don't need to buy your kid an expensive pair of headphones that she'll probably loose or have stolen.

Or they'll break.

[auntie_betty]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

[Roadrunner53]

At another place I worked there was a woman who would pay her bills by checkbook, make out Christmas Cards, play solitaire on the computer amongst other personal things. She would come to work late a lot (...) About 2 pm she would actually start 'working'. She had her bosses bamboozled she was SOOO busy! Her problem was that she was too smart for the job she was in and was not ambitious enough to climb the corporate ladder.

Then again, if she actually got all the work done that they were paying her for between 2 PM and 5 PM, I'd argue that the bosses shouldn't complain. They probably hired her to do a job, they were willing to pay her $xxk for it, and she got the job done. Of course it could have been more useful and everybody would have been a bit happier if the bosses had just told her to do a specific list of tasks and nobody cared when she did them as long as they got done. She'd come in at 12 and would have gone home by 4 PM and would have been less obnoxious to the rest of you guys.

It was a 40  hour a week job and she did maybe 3 hours of work a day. She had a couple of bosses who had their heads in the sand and were so busy themselves, they didn't have time to monitor her activities that were not work. They actually trusted her and she took advantage. It was a team oriented work place. If you actually ran out of things to do, which was almost never for me, then it was common practice to offer to help others with their work. It  might only be an hour or two but was appreciated. Our work loads were incredible and never ending for most of us. I had between 3 and 4 people needing my services every single day. She was known to be a  miserable, lazy person who was just not a team player and no one wanted to even ask her to do anything. Plus, she had one lady boss who felt compassion for her due to the fact she had 3 children. Not fair to cater to people who have children compared to those who have none. Should be equal treatment. I do blame her bosses for allowing her to mismanage her time. It was not a job that you were given an assignment, do it as fast as you can and then goof off the rest of the day. Would have been fine with me if she worked 3 hours and went home as long as she got paid for only 3 hours! However, at that time there were no part time people.

[ysette9]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

[iris lily]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

this is hilarious!

[auntie_betty]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

this is hilarious!

Oh yes, very funny.

Wait till you find out you don't get Bank Holidays either!!!!!!!

[SwordGuy]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

this is hilarious!

I'm sad to say, from recent personal experience, it's not funny at all. :(   

[calimom]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Some work from home. Some home from work.

[eyesonthehorizon]

It was a 40  hour a week job and she did maybe 3 hours of work a day. ... The[bosses] actually trusted her and she took advantage. It was a team oriented work place. If you actually ran out of things to do, which was almost never for me, then it was common practice to offer to help others with their work. It  might only be an hour or two but was appreciated. Our work loads were incredible and never ending for most of us. I had between 3 and 4 people needing my services every single day. ....

Dealing with this myself right now, same situation: workload is by team, and we're stuck with a really poor (selfish, lazy) team player. I'm struggling with morale already, and knowing that I work eight hours at full steam, they work two casually, and we're regarded & compensated the same is crushing. I wish I could ignore it, or maybe just work at 98% of my peak capacity and catch my breath. I just couldn't live with myself shortchanging the team. It's almost harder because I know I could walk away - real first-world whine, but in the past I had to struggle through it for the check; now that I can afford a little dignity, the insult is sharper.

Anybody find a way around this? I don't see it changing, but it's also the first time I've ever felt like my job was a net positive between personal compensation, personal sacrifice, & general impact.

[Yanisimo]

This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

[Taran Wanderer]

That's just sad.

[gooki]

You learnt an important lesson today.

[PVD_Kev]

But think about all the CO2 you are exhaling! You should be ashamed...  /s

I used to have a boss who would in all seriousness argue that him driving to work in his big Mercedes was better for the environment than me cycling, because it would be years before the pollution from the production of the steel my bike was made from was compensated and it would take even longer because I need to eat extra food due to all my cycling. Of course his Merc wasn't made from metal and doesn't need fuel :/

Guy even used the "trust me I'm an engineer" argument.

Engineers are consistently the most convinced in their "false negative" error when it comes to climate change and emissions.  It's...bizarre.

On thread:  My father (80 yo) loves to say things like "Well, the plane is going to fly whether you buy a ticket or not."  Of course, Mister Supply-and-Demand-are-Immutable-Laws-of-Nature never sees the fallacy in his statement.  Good thing I love the guy or he'd drive me crazy!

[ysette9]

Loving someone and them driving you crazy are not mutually exclusive

[six-car-habit]

This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

[Tabitha]

BiL passed away 8 years ago, when nephew was 20. Much upheaval and SiL has been on economic support since.  None of this family had any money sense, living in the moment.
Nephew had already lost his DrLic in his teens due to unpaid fines. Makes it difficult to find work in a city underserved by public transit. We’d offered a few ways he could help us in return for funds to pay off a substantial chunk of the debt, but reasons.
On top of general lack of ambition, Nephew was hit hard by dad’s death. Many reasons/excuses why not continuing in school, even when his employer at the time explained that lack of paper is why he stayed hourly instead of the continued job he wanted.
In some ways he is smart. Recently current Big Employer recognized him with a year-end bonus, large in proportion to current wages and not normally available to his level.
Does he pay off fines? He does not
Does he apply for employer’s continuing education programs? Nope
Use some of the bonus money to pursue some other credentials? Nah
Pay off the high interest car loan that was all his live-in GF could qualify for? Please.
But he’s very proud of the top-end gaming laptop and big screen TV he bought this week. Sigh.

[Miss Piggy]

BiL passed away 8 years ago, when nephew was 20. Much upheaval and SiL has been on economic support since.  None of this family had any money sense, living in the moment.
Nephew had already lost his DrLic in his teens due to unpaid fines. Makes it difficult to find work in a city underserved by public transit. We’d offered a few ways he could help us in return for funds to pay off a substantial chunk of the debt, but reasons.
On top of general lack of ambition, Nephew was hit hard by dad’s death. Many reasons/excuses why not continuing in school, even when his employer at the time explained that lack of paper is why he stayed hourly instead of the continued job he wanted.
In some ways he is smart. Recently current Big Employer recognized him with a year-end bonus, large in proportion to current wages and not normally available to his level.
Does he pay off fines? He does not
Does he apply for employer’s continuing education programs? Nope
Use some of the bonus money to pursue some other credentials? Nah
Pay off the high interest car loan that was all his live-in GF could qualify for? Please.
But he’s very proud of the top-end gaming laptop and big screen TV he bought this week. Sigh.

Sigh is right. :(

So he's still without a driver's license? For 10+ years? Just for fines? (Not for DUI, ect.?) Wow. That's some serious lack of motivation.

[Tabitha]

Sigh is right. :(

So he's still without a driver's license? For 10+ years? Just for fines? (Not for DUI, ect.?) Wow. That's some serious lack of motivation.

It was >$750 in fines, surcharges, and “don’t ignore the state fees” payable to The State of NY.  All due to speeding/parking. Zero DUI. I have determinedly not asked if interest was accumulating. As you say, lack of motivation. Venting here helps me keep my mouth shut elsewhere. Not my circus.

[Yanisimo]

This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

I purchased a ticket for my friend to attend a Holiday Alumni event in hopes that she will network and find a better paying job. Unfortunately, I think my friend is a lost cause. I bought her the books Your Money or Your Life and The Simple Path to Wealth during the summer and I can tell she hasn't read them since she has not made changes to her lifestyle. So that was a waste of money on my end.

[SwordGuy]

I purchased a ticket for my friend to attend a Holiday Alumni event in hopes that she will network and find a better paying job. Unfortunately, I think my friend is a lost cause. I bought her the books Your Money or Your Life and The Simple Path to Wealth during the summer and I can tell she hasn't read them since she has not made changes to her lifestyle. So that was a waste of money on my end.

No, not a waste.   You were a good friend.    Sometimes it takes people time to work thru their internal emotional issues before they can bring themselves to make the changes.    You planted a seed, it may still bear fruit.

[Tasse]

A gift has to be about your generosity, not the end result - you can't control what they do with it. Take comfort that you offered the best help you know, and accept that it's not in your power to determine the outcome.

[onehair]

I got a new one from the ongoing saga at my house.  As you know I give my SO no money and I have made it policy for my son to give him none as well.  If my son wants to contribute to any household expenses he is welcome to either give me the money towards the bill (rent included) or obtain the item or pay the bill in question himself if given the account numbers.  He is attempting to save for his own place so he contributes groceries, toilet paper paper towels and occasionally chips in on the cable as well as handling his own expenses.  So he comes home last week to a handwritten note from my SO asking for $60 for his medicine. Yes he takes meds but I do not help due to being him scamming me as well as son once before.  Then he demands $100 for rent then after February $200 monthly via this same note.  We found this laughable since I am the one paying the rent at present.

[Cassie]

One, why are you even living with this person?

[honeybbq]

I got a new one from the ongoing saga at my house.  As you know I give my SO no money and I have made it policy for my son to give him none as well.  If my son wants to contribute to any household expenses he is welcome to either give me the money towards the bill (rent included) or obtain the item or pay the bill in question himself if given the account numbers.  He is attempting to save for his own place so he contributes groceries, toilet paper paper towels and occasionally chips in on the cable as well as handling his own expenses.  So he comes home last week to a handwritten note from my SO asking for $60 for his medicine. Yes he takes meds but I do not help due to being him scamming me as well as son once before.  Then he demands $100 for rent then after February $200 monthly via this same note.  We found this laughable since I am the one paying the rent at present.

I think I missed the backstory on this. Is there a post here?

[frugalecon]

This is about my friend. She and her husband are in a lot of debt. They have credit card debt, car loan debt, thousands in lawyer fees still unpaid...etc. They cannot afford the mortgage, and so the husband's family has been paying for their mortgage and monthly child support since the summer of 2018. They are apparently going to file the documents necessary to claim bankruptcy as soon as they can afford the trustee's $1,000 filing fee.

Despite their financial woes, they go out to eat (in nice, sit-in restaurants) every week. They went to Universal Orlando in December with their 3 kids, hired a professional photographer to take family Christmas photos, spent New Year's Eve in a fancy restaurant/bar located downtown in a high rise building overlooking the city fireworks show, and spent their 2 year anniversary in an even fancier restaurant. It seems their spending habits have not changed despite their high debt.

Update on my friend's life: The husband's car was repossessed this summer because they stopped making payments on it. Mommy and Daddy came to the rescue. The husband was relieved of $50,000 worth of credit card debt thanks to filing for bankruptcy. They are still in 5 figures worth of debt. My friend contributes $100 per month to her baby's college fund that makes 2-3% in returns and doesn't make the minimum payments on her credit card, so she racks up fees and interest. I felt bad for her financial situation, so today I generously paid for her ticket to attend a holiday event to help her save $. Just a few hours later, I noticed on Instagram that she bought a giant, real Christmas tree, just like she did last year when they were >$70,000 in debt. What the f$&k. I want my money back.

 In your previous post you have them attending 4 major "events"  in the span of 2 months [ universal orlando, professional photos, new yrs eve dinner, anniversary dinner ]   -  I'm not sure why you would pay for a ticket for another "holiday event" a year later ??
   They don't need to be going to 'events'... your friend needs to be at home cooking up a great big pot of goulash to last for 2-3 meals.  You can support her by showing up with an ingredient for her goulash and talking with her, while helping cut vegetables and stirring the stew for a few hours.

I purchased a ticket for my friend to attend a Holiday Alumni event in hopes that she will network and find a better paying job. Unfortunately, I think my friend is a lost cause. I bought her the books Your Money or Your Life and The Simple Path to Wealth during the summer and I can tell she hasn't read them since she has not made changes to her lifestyle. So that was a waste of money on my end.

It sounds like a lot of other people are more concerned about your friend’s situation than she is. Frankly, I wouldn’t offer any assistance on the “hope” that she will somehow do something differently than past experience would suggest is likely.

[Taran Wanderer]

I got a new one from the ongoing saga at my house.  As you know I give my SO no money and I have made it policy for my son to give him none as well.  If my son wants to contribute to any household expenses he is welcome to either give me the money towards the bill (rent included) or obtain the item or pay the bill in question himself if given the account numbers.  He is attempting to save for his own place so he contributes groceries, toilet paper paper towels and occasionally chips in on the cable as well as handling his own expenses.  So he comes home last week to a handwritten note from my SO asking for $60 for his medicine. Yes he takes meds but I do not help due to being him scamming me as well as son once before.  Then he demands $100 for rent then after February $200 monthly via this same note.  We found this laughable since I am the one paying the rent at present.

I think I missed the backstory on this. Is there a post here?

SO == Significant Other, right?  Like life partner / husband / wife / fiance / boyfriend / girlfriend.  Right?

Edited to add:  In other words, I'm confused, too...

[onehair]

My apologies for not clarifying earlier the whole situation: Yes my SO is my husband.  This is the TL;DR version since the longer one is somewhere in the general forum under the topic At what point do you give up on a marriage?
Anyway here goes: My husband the Significant Other has never been into the FIRE thing.  I discovered it late and decided to do it for myself.  Over the course of our 15 year marriage he has made 3 major financial errors each time costing me serious money.  The 1st time he helped a friend get an apartment and said friend didn't pay the rent and got evicted. He used money he was supposed to pay our rent with.  I got mad and covered it thinking it was a one time error and he'd learn.  2nd time was during the government shutdown of 2013.  He didn't go back to work like the rest of us when it was over lying he was "going to be called soon".  Turned out due to some mistakes and a few other things at his job in federal law enforcement he was made to retire.  There is a 6 month gap on average between retiring and receiving your checks.  3rd time recently he decided to cosign for some friend with a car loan.  I have not seen this car ever.  He also got behind on his state taxes so the feds are garnishing his pension check.  Why didn't I leave before? Because of my son and his Crohns which delayed us while he got diagnosed and treated.  We had been evicted before back in 2000 (yes that WAS my fault but I swore to never be evicted again).  The child is grown now and working.

Update: Yes I intend on moving out once my son has signed a lease.  Then I will take the items important to me take my name off the lease and go into a place already prepared I am on my way.  I also will end up quitting McDonalds mainly due to the hours I work on the overnight shift and at that point I will no longer need the extra income to cover rent.
Yes Grim Squeaker due to previous discussions I realized I had become an enabler again...but I am taking action.

[Cassie]

T hope you can divorce him with the least financial impact. If he tries to claim some of your future pension you can claim part of his.

[Freedomin5]

Christmas is one of those times of the year when family gathers and I get updates on their poor financial decisions. This year I collected two gems.

One 14 year old told me he was interested in investing. All the family members were so proud of him and his adulting. So I asked what he invested in and he spewed out some mumbo jumbo about algorithms that he developed (from the comfort of his own bedroom) and stock evaluations and assets and liabilities and financial statements. And then he said based on his algorithms, his first investment was in Apple in October, which then promptly fell, at which point he freaked out about losing money and sold Apple. Face, meet palm.

He then asked me about my investing philosophy probably hoping to get some sophisticated investing insights, so I talked about boring old index funds and how our investments have consistently gone up over the past several years.

He then said he wanted to study business, and given that I graduated from one of the best business schools in Canada, I thought I had some insight. So I spewed out the names of a few top schools and he said those were the ones he was thinking of. So then I mentioned that he needed to make sure that his grades stayed above 90%, at which point he became kind of goggle-eyed and was like, you mean your high school average or just your final year? I was like, your high school average! And then he was like, you mean, in all your courses? Yes, pretty much! Seriously? If you can't even get straight As in grade 9, how do you expect to get them in grade 12 when the coursework is supposed to be MORE challenging?!


After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. I had decided to splurge this year and bought several jewellery pieces that were more expensive than normal, because I wanted to support the charity selling them. So our gifts to others cost a total of around $200 for 6 people. So then everyone started opening everyone else's gifts. One family member is on disability and working part time. She's on full-on EOC living rent-free and driving her parents' car. Oh, and she's 40. DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. When you add up everything, she must have spent over $1000. This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

[Freedomin5]

I have another one that made me laugh.

MIL is into investing and real estate but is not very good at it.  She recently bought a co-op apartment to provide EOC to her grown daughter. Over the holidays she was trying to convince me to also purchase a "newly renovated three bedroom unit" in the same building that had come on the market for $400K. The building was built in the 1950s and was in a lower middle class part of town. She said that the unit could be used as an investment and rented "with board approval" and that the management fees were "only $400/month".

I immediately had hesitations because co-ops are notoriously difficult to rent out and buildings from the 1950s are bound to have problems that require fixing and thus lots of money. Three-bedrooms are also not our target market because we don't have experience renting to young families. Plus it's never good to have a unit in the building in which this family lives because they may drop by on the tenants unannounced to "check on their unit" at any time.

So then I visited her daughter in their recently purchased apartment and found out that because of poor structural design, the building shifted in high winds which then caused giant cracks running the length of the wall. To fix the problem, management has been telling people to plaster over the cracks. Yes, as a permanant solution. Windows and panes were original to the building, and whoever was renovating and flipping the units was doing a shoddy job renovating, including incorrectly installing electrical outlets and the electrical panel and only half finishing baseboards that were out of sight.

The next time MIL brought up the apartment, I noncomittally murmured that we were not in a position to buy another investment unit at this time.

[AlanStache]

One 14 year old told me he was interested in investing. All the family members were so proud of him and his adulting. So I asked what he invested in and he spewed out some mumbo jumbo about algorithms that he developed (from the comfort of his own bedroom) and stock evaluations and assets and liabilities and financial statements. And then he said based on his algorithms, his first investment was in Apple in October, which then promptly fell, at which point he freaked out about losing money and sold Apple. Face, meet palm.
...

I see a lot of potential for positive good in that story.  A 14 year old taking an interest in data analysis and I assume some type of mathematical modeling is 100% a great thing.  Second if he learns he cant beet the market while under 18 he will be way ahead of most all adults. 

[Freedomin5]

One 14 year old told me he was interested in investing. All the family members were so proud of him and his adulting. So I asked what he invested in and he spewed out some mumbo jumbo about algorithms that he developed (from the comfort of his own bedroom) and stock evaluations and assets and liabilities and financial statements. And then he said based on his algorithms, his first investment was in Apple in October, which then promptly fell, at which point he freaked out about losing money and sold Apple. Face, meet palm.
...

I see a lot of potential for positive good in that story.  A 14 year old taking an interest in data analysis and I assume some type of mathematical modeling is 100% a great thing.  Second if he learns he cant beet the market while under 18 he will be way ahead of most all adults.

I totally agree. I still wish there were knowledgeable adults around him to walk him through the process. And at least it was only a few thousand dollars. It’s good he learned the lesson early.

[Goldielocks]

After dinner, it was time to open the gifts. .... DH and I are kind of the black sheep/outcasts in the family, so my gifts from her consisted of a cheap candle and a perfume sample. That's not the interesting part though. The interesting part was the other gifts she gave, including a $350 Coach purse ("It's the real thing! It's real leather!"), a $150 strainer ("I bought the best brand, so it should last a long time"), a giant bag full of Sephora make up, and $200 in gift cards. .....This person literally spends every cent she has. It's like she has no concept of delayed gratification or longer term planning. The extremely poor executive functioning skills she exhibits is actually quite fascinating, provided that I do not have to act as her case manager or intertwine my finances with hers in any way.

To my read, you got the best gift of the bunch!  Maybe she knows that you would hate to get a $350 coach purse from her (or anyone..?) and chose something that you would not hate, a dollar store candle.. which otherwise, would be about perfect.   

[MissNancyPryor]

I used to do personal paperwork at work.

When I FIRE'd I was horrified to find I had to compare and renew insurances etc. IN MY OWN TIME!!!!!!!! Mu son asked me to research a new mortgage deal for him and I replied 'I'm not working anymore you know, I don't have time for that stuff'.

Some work from home. Some home from work.

Now that I FIRED I may have to actually buy ink for my home printer.  It is just not fair.