Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 2697642 times)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4800 on: August 30, 2018, 03:10:49 PM »
I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Tell them it's "vintage" and they'll shut up.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4801 on: August 30, 2018, 03:11:52 PM »
DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.
Sounds like nephew has nailed the aspiring part of the 'aspiring rapper' phrase that seems to pop up so often.

We like big bucks and we cannot lie...

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4802 on: August 30, 2018, 03:26:54 PM »
Sounds like nephew has nailed the aspiring part of the 'aspiring rapper' phrase that seems to pop up so often.

We like big bucks and we cannot lie...
*snigger* that sounds like a great signature for a bogleheads user...

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4803 on: August 31, 2018, 09:38:54 AM »
I would avoid those shops because they promote a cycle of fashion that in not sustainable. way to go for second-hand clothes!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/environment-costs-fast-fashion-pollution-waste-sustainability-a8139386.html

I try to buy second hand as much as I can, but it's not always possible to find everything you need used.

It's a myth though that cheaper brands like H&M and Zara are more harmful to the environment than clothes from more expensive brands. There's very little difference in quality and environmental harm between cheap and expensive brands. Actually, some cheaper stores like H&M and C&A (in Europe) are adding more and more eco-conscious clothing to their collection. C&A has a growing range range of C2C gold level certified clothing, and the jeans cost less than €20.

There are some very eco-conscious brands on the market (although secondhand is always best) but most of those are hippie style clothes and not suitable for a corporate environment.

@ixtap  maybe Zara is considered more high-end where you live? It's not expensive at all in my country. It's more expensive than Primark / H&M, where you'd pay €15-€20 for a pair of jeans, but at €15-€30 for a pair of jeans I wouldn't consider them expensive, just one level above super-cheap.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kate Middleton wore it, the clothes look pretty chic. Our Queen Maxima dresses her kids in Zara and H&M as well. They have to wear affordable clothes every now and then so the public believes they're one of us.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4804 on: August 31, 2018, 04:25:57 PM »
I would avoid those shops because they promote a cycle of fashion that in not sustainable. way to go for second-hand clothes!

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/environment-costs-fast-fashion-pollution-waste-sustainability-a8139386.html

I try to buy second hand as much as I can, but it's not always possible to find everything you need used.

It's a myth though that cheaper brands like H&M and Zara are more harmful to the environment than clothes from more expensive brands. There's very little difference in quality and environmental harm between cheap and expensive brands. Actually, some cheaper stores like H&M and C&A (in Europe) are adding more and more eco-conscious clothing to their collection. C&A has a growing range range of C2C gold level certified clothing, and the jeans cost less than €20.

There are some very eco-conscious brands on the market (although secondhand is always best) but most of those are hippie style clothes and not suitable for a corporate environment.

@ixtap  maybe Zara is considered more high-end where you live? It's not expensive at all in my country. It's more expensive than Primark / H&M, where you'd pay €15-€20 for a pair of jeans, but at €15-€30 for a pair of jeans I wouldn't consider them expensive, just one level above super-cheap.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if Kate Middleton wore it, the clothes look pretty chic. Our Queen Maxima dresses her kids in Zara and H&M as well. They have to wear affordable clothes every now and then so the public believes they're one of us.

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4805 on: September 01, 2018, 02:55:13 AM »

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

I agree - the conditions and wages of the workers who made the clothes, usually in poor countries, is a big concern.  Especially after the Rana Center disaster in Bangladesh a few years ago.  https://nordic.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-hms-clothes-would-cost-if-factory-got-paid-sustainable-salaries-2017-6/

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4806 on: September 01, 2018, 04:41:03 AM »

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

I agree - the conditions and wages of the workers who made the clothes, usually in poor countries, is a big concern.  Especially after the Rana Center disaster in Bangladesh a few years ago.  https://nordic.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-hms-clothes-would-cost-if-factory-got-paid-sustainable-salaries-2017-6/

That's true, but it's not like they get paid more when the clothes are more expensive. The difference goes into the pocket of the merchants, not into the pockets of the ladies who sew the clothes. 

The problem with ethical clothing is that there are several aspects to consider: social aspects (like child labour) environmental aspects (like the use of harmful dyes and treatments) and economic aspects (fair trade). I am not aware of any brand that does well on all of these aspects.

There are also many different accreditations for conscious fashion. A company like H&M is FLA accredited, which means their factories meet the FLA standards - that honestly means they're just slightly better than other factories in the same country, it's not what we would consider normal working circumstances in the western world. That doesn't mean there's fair trade, which is almost impossible to achieve for a large first-world company getting their supplies from third-world countries. There are several certified organic accreditations that a company can achieve, but just because they are using organic fabric, that doesn't mean they treat their workers well or there is fair trade.

It's not like I haven't done my research into this. I think the most important thing is to try and buy secondhand, but I know that's not always possible. The second important thing is to wear all your clothes until they are worn out. You shouldn't buy items that you're only going to wear 5 times. I wear the same times for years and years. The third important thing is to have the smallest amount of clothes possible. Not all clothing is easy to find on the used market. I think about 75% of my clothing is either secondhand or homemade, but about 25% is not. For that 25% I have no problems going to stores like H&M.

I only buy quality pieces that will last for years, I've done the research, I'm trying to limit my ecological footprint as much as I can, but I also need some things to wear. That means I will buy maybe 2 or 3 new pieces of clothing on a yearly base and I'm ok with that.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4807 on: September 01, 2018, 04:02:57 PM »

If those jeans cost less than 20 euros, how much is the person who made them getting? Environmental harm isn't all about fibers and dyes. It's also about keeping people poor. Poor communities have no other choice than to pollute with sewerage, chop down forests to heat with wood, pollute the air if coal is cheap, trade or consume endangered animals, etc. That's why organisations like Jane Goodall are so concerned with supporting communities near the areas they want to conserve.

I agree - the conditions and wages of the workers who made the clothes, usually in poor countries, is a big concern.  Especially after the Rana Center disaster in Bangladesh a few years ago.  https://nordic.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-hms-clothes-would-cost-if-factory-got-paid-sustainable-salaries-2017-6/

That's true, but it's not like they get paid more when the clothes are more expensive. The difference goes into the pocket of the merchants, not into the pockets of the ladies who sew the clothes. 

The problem with ethical clothing is that there are several aspects to consider: social aspects (like child labour) environmental aspects (like the use of harmful dyes and treatments) and economic aspects (fair trade). I am not aware of any brand that does well on all of these aspects.

There are also many different accreditations for conscious fashion. A company like H&M is FLA accredited, which means their factories meet the FLA standards - that honestly means they're just slightly better than other factories in the same country, it's not what we would consider normal working circumstances in the western world. That doesn't mean there's fair trade, which is almost impossible to achieve for a large first-world company getting their supplies from third-world countries. There are several certified organic accreditations that a company can achieve, but just because they are using organic fabric, that doesn't mean they treat their workers well or there is fair trade.

It's not like I haven't done my research into this. I think the most important thing is to try and buy secondhand, but I know that's not always possible. The second important thing is to wear all your clothes until they are worn out. You shouldn't buy items that you're only going to wear 5 times. I wear the same times for years and years. The third important thing is to have the smallest amount of clothes possible. Not all clothing is easy to find on the used market. I think about 75% of my clothing is either secondhand or homemade, but about 25% is not. For that 25% I have no problems going to stores like H&M.

I only buy quality pieces that will last for years, I've done the research, I'm trying to limit my ecological footprint as much as I can, but I also need some things to wear. That means I will buy maybe 2 or 3 new pieces of clothing on a yearly base and I'm ok with that.

Totally agree with you. I happen to really enjoy thrift store shopping. It's a hobby. But I know some people dislike it or don't have the time. There are other strategies to make the most of clothes, as you have pointed out.

OtherJen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4808 on: September 01, 2018, 06:42:49 PM »
Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??
That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yeah, my best friend and her parents left Vietnam in a boat with the clothes on their backs. They ended up here via a refugee resettlement program and basically started from scratch. Two of my grandparents and their parents and siblings came here as migrant farmers and settled where they could get factory jobs. They raised my dad and his 6 siblings first in a 2-bedroom apartment and then in a 3-bedroom bungalow. My oldest uncles, all born in the USA, were in their late teens by that point.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4809 on: September 01, 2018, 10:51:06 PM »
Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??
That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yeah, my best friend and her parents left Vietnam in a boat with the clothes on their backs. They ended up here via a refugee resettlement program and basically started from scratch. Two of my grandparents and their parents and siblings came here as migrant farmers and settled where they could get factory jobs. They raised my dad and his 6 siblings first in a 2-bedroom apartment and then in a 3-bedroom bungalow. My oldest uncles, all born in the USA, were in their late teens by that point.

Would I be right in thinking that none of these individuals lived so far beyond their means as to ask a younger, single relative to co-sign a loan?

OtherJen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4810 on: September 02, 2018, 07:26:18 AM »
Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??
That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yeah, my best friend and her parents left Vietnam in a boat with the clothes on their backs. They ended up here via a refugee resettlement program and basically started from scratch. Two of my grandparents and their parents and siblings came here as migrant farmers and settled where they could get factory jobs. They raised my dad and his 6 siblings first in a 2-bedroom apartment and then in a 3-bedroom bungalow. My oldest uncles, all born in the USA, were in their late teens by that point.

Would I be right in thinking that none of these individuals lived so far beyond their means as to ask a younger, single relative to co-sign a loan?

How could I possibly answer that, as I don’t have access to that information? I’m directly answering the literal question posed in the quoted box at the top. Lots of immigrants move to their new countries. Many of them move with little more than they can carry, for lots of reasons.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4811 on: September 02, 2018, 02:24:47 PM »
My husbands aunt became a hoarder late in life. Very weird. When she passed away, her apartment was floor to ceiling with stuff and lots of it was from QVC in original bags and boxes and never used. Her apartment was infested with bed bugs and every single thing had to be thrown out. A clean up company had to come in with special gear so they didn't get eaten by the bugs. This was in an old, old apartment building and most likely no way to get rid of these bugs unless the whole building was fumigated. As far as I know, only her apartment was fumigated. I am sure the bed bugs were not brought in by her but her apartment got infested by others in the building. Probably every single apartment was infested. UGH! I had visited the apartment many years ago when her parents lived there and it was a tidy apartment. Can't imagine how this hoarder thing happened.

When my aunt and uncle bought an apartment complex, they would have a free keg and watermelon party for all the residents.

The kickoff for opening the kegs was a bug bomb set off in each and every apartment.

Just to be on topic:

My other aunt can't seem to even stay in the same house for more than a few years. She will buy an expensive, large house (uncle is deceased - it's just her and one small dog) - perform expensive redecorating and kitchen renovation. Within  a couple of years she's not happy with the house anymore and will repeat the process.

Of course, one of her "best friends" is a Realtor(tm).

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4812 on: September 02, 2018, 09:33:13 PM »
...
Would I be right in thinking that none of these individuals lived so far beyond their means as to ask a younger, single relative to co-sign a loan?

My understanding of the way the Vietnamese functioned in the Denver area when they got out of their shattered country about the time Congress collapsed American support was that very quickly they banded together and formed something like a credit union.  Pooled the little they had, listened to pitches, relied on their knowledge of one another to make the loans.  Everyone knew enough of each other to know that, say, young Ms Grimsqueaker was smart as a whip, had a good idea for a business, worked fiercely, upheld the old ways as regards debt, and was in every way a good candidate for a loan.  But young Mr Fredbear though smooth as a mongoose was lazy as a two-toed sloth, so the little the community had would not be risked with him.  Now it is almost 50 years later they have a part of town largely if informally their own, and it is fabulous.

I never heard of any reverse loans, where elders came a-borrowing from the young ones, though I suppose as the community matured, the credit pool grew more sophisticated, and some of the young ones succeeded, that it would eventually have happened.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4813 on: September 03, 2018, 03:24:58 AM »
Fredbear - fom what I understand, the Chinese community here in my town works similarly.  I think other immigrant communities are similar.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4814 on: September 03, 2018, 09:49:29 AM »
My other aunt can't seem to even stay in the same house for more than a few years. She will buy an expensive, large house (uncle is deceased - it's just her and one small dog) - perform expensive redecorating and kitchen renovation. Within  a couple of years she's not happy with the house anymore and will repeat the process.

Of course, one of her "best friends" is a Realtor(tm).

Doesn't seem like a problem as long as she's making a profit after the sale.

I highly doubt she's making a profit. It's not like she's flipping them. She'll take perfectly nice, excellent cabinets, granite countertops and tile floor and replace with different cabinets, granite countertops and tile floor. Replace perfectly nice, nearly pristine neutral carpet with different carpet. Nothing that I would see as raising the value.  I'd ballpark she's spending at least 15% of the house value doing so. Plus all the usual costs of selling/buying houses. Using professional movers. Etc. I don't see how it would result in a profit. If she's relying on rising house values - she would get that in the existing house without all the additional costs.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4815 on: September 03, 2018, 10:41:36 AM »
Perhaps with her husband deceased this is the way she passed her time to entertain herself/stay connected to others/have a project to not wallow in depression.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4816 on: September 04, 2018, 07:50:12 AM »
I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Congrats to you on the new job! I may have seen your relatives this morn in the school drop off line. Children exited the car in front of us. All of them wearing brand name clothes with a certain logo prominently plastered front and back and head to toe.

I'll buy quality (durability). Don't need any "tribal signs" (logos, signalling) on my clothes though. ;)

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4817 on: September 05, 2018, 02:35:12 PM »
I called a few family members to tell them I've got a new job. In this job I will report to a CFO, but it's a massive company with lot of seperate entities, so it's just "a" CFO of this location, not "the" CFO.

My relatives all said congrats. And then all of them suggested I go shopping for clothes right away, because I can't work for a CFO wearing the type of clothes I wear now. What's wrong with what I wear now? There are no brand names on it. It's not expensive.

Seriously, I wear perfectly appropriate clothes to work but I try to find them secondhand or from shops like H&M and Zara. A black knee-length skirt is a black knee-length skirt. No one cares about the brand name.

Apparantly I also need a new coat. Why? Because I've had this one for years. Does it look worn out or old-fashioned? No, but you've had it for years. You shouldn't wear your clothes for such a long time. And it's boring because it's black.

Congrats to you on the new job! I may have seen your relatives this morn in the school drop off line. Children exited the car in front of us. All of them wearing brand name clothes with a certain logo prominently plastered front and back and head to toe.

I'll buy quality (durability). Don't need any "tribal signs" (logos, signalling) on my clothes though. ;)

Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4818 on: September 05, 2018, 09:50:06 PM »
Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.
Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4819 on: September 05, 2018, 09:56:48 PM »
Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.
Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?
Life is journey, man.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4820 on: September 06, 2018, 12:34:20 AM »
Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.
Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

I have a couple of car-to-bar shoes. They're not much good for anything else!

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4821 on: September 06, 2018, 01:34:58 AM »
Same relative when I showed them the dress I altered for an upcoming wedding: "Ooh but you need to buy a matching blazer for when you walk from the wedding venue to the party venue. You need to treat yourself every now and then!" Yeah, treating myself by buying the one type of clothing I hate wearing. I have a very basic thin cardigan in a matching colour that will do just fine. I guess buying clothes is just how normal people reward themselves. For me, having an appropriate outfit for a wedding at a low cost ( to me and to the environment) is the reward.
Hang on.  Did they just suggest that you purchase a piece of clothing specifically just for walking from one location to another?

But what if someone happens to take a picture? Or when the party venue turns out to be cold? At some point you just need to accept you're a grown woman. You can't go on wearing thin plain button down cardigans instead of blazers. 

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4822 on: September 06, 2018, 09:19:18 AM »
You need to treat yourself every now and then and today and tomorrow and next week. YOLO! How am i so broke?

Cookie78

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4823 on: September 06, 2018, 09:21:30 AM »
You need to treat yourself every now and then and today and tomorrow and next week. YOLO! How am i so broke?

I'd just like to treat myself to a WHOLELOTTA FREEDOM!! YOLO

Zikoris

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4824 on: September 06, 2018, 11:49:22 AM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

FiguringItOut

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4825 on: September 06, 2018, 12:06:07 PM »
Which raises the question for me, how can you move your family to another country without the requisite cash on hand to support them for at least a year??
That's what virtually every immigrant since the dawn of time has done.

Parents moved to the States in '92 with about $4k in cash and six kids. Not every decision in life is made having the resources to fully complement it. Sometimes you just roll with the punches and hope/work/struggle for the best results

Yep.  My parents came to the States in '89 with $1,800, 5 suitcases, two kids, and grandmother. 
My parents retired 5 years ago with NW in $2M+ range.


Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4826 on: September 06, 2018, 12:23:55 PM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore. 


Zikoris

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4827 on: September 06, 2018, 02:00:22 PM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Davnasty

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4828 on: September 06, 2018, 02:31:00 PM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Treats are what you get when you show someone how good you are at shaking hands or rolling over. Two treats for jumping through a hoop.

Zikoris

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4829 on: September 06, 2018, 03:25:34 PM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

LOL, that just reminded me of the one time I use the word treat - when I want gummy bears. Probably not a great way to appear more adult-like though. When my boyfriend says treat, he means blueberry yogurt.

Treats are what you get when you show someone how good you are at shaking hands or rolling over. Two treats for jumping through a hoop.

So what you're saying is that when I need to jump through hoops trying to explain that buying crap I don't want is not actually a treat, I deserve two gummy bears? Sweet!

Dee

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4830 on: September 06, 2018, 07:37:40 PM »
Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4831 on: September 07, 2018, 08:12:48 AM »
Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

Just make sure they're not the special sugar-free Haribo ones.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4832 on: September 07, 2018, 10:03:58 AM »
Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

Just make sure they're not the special sugar-free Haribo ones.

good one

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4833 on: September 07, 2018, 10:27:23 AM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

Someone gave my MIL a gift certificate for a spa day as a treat. She called all her DILs, asking if we could go with her and use some of the GC's value, so she wouldn't have to stay there so long. The only reason she was even going was that she didn't want to hurt the feelings of the giver.

auntie_betty

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4834 on: September 09, 2018, 01:11:24 PM »
"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

Linea_Norway

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4835 on: September 10, 2018, 02:31:27 AM »
Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4836 on: September 10, 2018, 02:22:16 PM »
Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4837 on: September 10, 2018, 03:01:31 PM »
Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

Threshkin

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4838 on: September 10, 2018, 06:33:18 PM »
Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.
But the thought was good.  Many (most?) bosses wouldn't have gotten you anything at all.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4839 on: September 10, 2018, 09:41:33 PM »
Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.
But the thought was good.  Many (most?) bosses wouldn't have gotten you anything at all.

Yes, it was a great thought and much appreciated.

Jouer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4840 on: September 11, 2018, 11:24:27 AM »
I love going to the spa with my wife - we have a nordic spa not too far from us. Most, if not all, of the baths are outside so it is beautiful there, especially in the winter. Anyways, if you book a massage, you get the cold/hot baths and other stuff for about 25% off the regular price. Works benefits pay for massages anyways so it's a nice way to get a $55 service for $40 (or since we got the massage, a $145 service for $40). We'd like to do this twice a year but we only usually make it there once a year.

Catbert

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4841 on: September 12, 2018, 03:21:14 PM »
Okay, back to relative stories...my step son (lets call him Stehen) is in his early 40s and obese.  He's churned through a variety of jobs over the years (somehow always get hired by assholes according to him).  His most recent job was as an armoured car driver.  6+ months ago he blew out his knee at work and has been on worker's comp.  He'll never be back to that job becuase being 100 lbs overweight won't heal the knee.  I forget what kind of knee surgery was involved.

When DH was visiting in June he was clear that Stephen had gotten a settlement although he refused to tell his father that.  But Stephen was paying for dinners and treats which he has never done before.  They are getting a new furnace.  DH overhead a neighbor tell Stephen's wife that furnaces are expensive.  That he (neighbor) would be willing to install as a side job and save them a lot of money.  Wife turned him down because they "have the money at the moment."  At one point  Stephen started to say something about a "set...." and then quickly changed the sentence.  At the time I wondered why he admit that he got a settlement.  Now I know.

Now it's 3 months later.  Last night DH received a call from another son asking if Stephen had gotten a settlement.  Stephen has now asked his mother (DH's ex-wife) for money because he's broke.  DH confirmed that Stephen likely got a settlement.  Likely she give him money anyway.  Oh well, not my problem.

87tweetybirds

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4842 on: September 14, 2018, 04:40:47 AM »
One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.
@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.


If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

This is the definition of “somewhat healthy relationship “ I was referring to. Is it truly a healthy relationship? Absolutely not, but there are boundaries imposed. He wants  have them in our lives, (family being very important in his culture) thus boundaries are what is required.

Kitsune

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4843 on: September 14, 2018, 08:06:45 AM »
One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.
@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.


If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

This is the definition of “somewhat healthy relationship “ I was referring to. Is it truly a healthy relationship? Absolutely not, but there are boundaries imposed. He wants  have them in our lives, (family being very important in his culture) thus boundaries are what is required.

Frankly, that seems like a definition of 'somewhat healthy relationship' most families use. There are always moments where communication styles and priorities and boundaries and expectations clash, and if you can handle a status quo of not giving more (time/money/energy/whatever) than you can/want, in return for a reasonably pleasant relationship with people you (mostly) appreciate... then yay.

Or, in other words: you can pick your spouse, you can pick your friends, you're stuck with your family, and sometimes they're great and sometimes it's a damned balancing act and sometimes you cut off contact. A successful balancing act can still be (reasonably, somewhat) healthy.

Lovelywings

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4844 on: September 15, 2018, 12:52:03 PM »
I don’t fault loveywings either. There are a lot of other red signs in the post. The cousin:

- Asked her to lend him money to trick the potential landlord into thinong he has more savings than he actually has in order to secure an apartment —> So he’s dishonest?
- Didn’t do proper research on work visas before moving here and selecting housing —> Impulsive? Lacks certain executive functioning skills? Lacks foresight?
- Asked lovelywings to co-sign the lease
- Likely intends to break the lease —> So he’s untrustworthy and doesn’t intend to keep promises?

The point is not that he immigrated to Canada with little money. The point is that he didn’t even seem to do any planning around how he and his family are going to survive, but instead seems to be holding out his hand and asking lovelywings, who is also a recent immigrant, to support him and his family. Seems kind of mooch-y to me.

Sorry, I was gone for a bit, and didn't realize there was some key background missing in my story. At the time he moved his family neither he nor his wife is able to work in Canada, at least for the next 6 months. His wife is a full time student and mother of a 2 year old. and he is a supporting spouse who is actually returning to our home country to work and will be paying her bills from there. So neither of them are able to hustle like your typical new immigrant. Hence why savings are required.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 01:14:17 PM by Lovelywings »

Lovelywings

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4845 on: September 15, 2018, 01:01:59 PM »
The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

Its a bit more complicated than this, but I see where there may be confusion. We're from a middle class African country (not war-torn). My cousin and I are pretty much the first in our family (among those who keep in touch) to move to Canada. There aren't other relatives here that he or I can depend on. And I'm just not interested in being that for him. I cannot afford it. Plus to be honest, the millennial generation in my country don't believe in being economically responsible for siblings..much less cousins. We have seen how our parents supported other family members and religious institutions, only to end up with little life savings. And yet they are regularly peppered with periodic requests for money, sometimes even asking for DOLLARS. Then insulted behind their backs when they decline. My father's younger sister once asked him to give her $5000 so she could start an import business. This was at a time I was sending money home to my parents (of course he said no). The cousin in my OP once told me that until he lived with us (in his twenties), he thought my father was a millionaire. My parents aren't big spenders, but there is a kind of entitlement that my generation is starting to vocally push back against. Though, not all of us are of the same view..

 TLDR - supporting others is part of my culture. My generation is saying heck no. there isn't a big enough group of family here to be there for my cousin.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 01:12:54 PM by Lovelywings »

Ever_Anon

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4846 on: September 15, 2018, 06:44:05 PM »
I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2018, 06:50:30 PM by Ever_Anon »

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4847 on: September 16, 2018, 12:35:01 AM »
The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

Its a bit more complicated than this, but I see where there may be confusion. We're from a middle class African country (not war-torn). My cousin and I are pretty much the first in our family (among those who keep in touch) to move to Canada. There aren't other relatives here that he or I can depend on. And I'm just not interested in being that for him. I cannot afford it. Plus to be honest, the millennial generation in my country don't believe in being economically responsible for siblings..much less cousins. We have seen how our parents supported other family members and religious institutions, only to end up with little life savings. And yet they are regularly peppered with periodic requests for money, sometimes even asking for DOLLARS. Then insulted behind their backs when they decline. My father's younger sister once asked him to give her $5000 so she could start an import business. This was at a time I was sending money home to my parents (of course he said no). The cousin in my OP once told me that until he lived with us (in his twenties), he thought my father was a millionaire. My parents aren't big spenders, but there is a kind of entitlement that my generation is starting to vocally push back against. Though, not all of us are of the same view..

 TLDR - supporting others is part of my culture. My generation is saying heck no. there isn't a big enough group of family here to be there for my cousin.

Thanks LW.  I know a Filippino guy who works as a cleaner here and is always complaining about his grasping relatives back home who think he's a millionaire because he lives in Italy.  They expect him to buy them big-screen TVs and things like that when he goes home.  I feel bad for the guy as he's just scraping by here.

Weirdly enough here in Italy there also  is this expectation of supporting siblings and other family members financially.  I have numerous foreign friends married to Italians who are driven nuts by feckless sisters and brothers in law who are supported by their spouse.  Things don't seem to be changing with younger people.  The entire culture is built on family and it goes completely against the world view of people from many other countries.

Nederstash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4848 on: September 16, 2018, 12:37:20 AM »
I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

Wow, that would piss me off royally. If you have children or pets, they come BEFORE all the bullshit spending like smoking and cable. It's an appalling level of arrogance. And they damn well know how to tug on your heartstrings to make you pay for the dog. Put them in the stocks and pelt them with rotten fruit!

Sorry, it's a bit of a pet peeve...

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #4849 on: September 16, 2018, 02:02:23 AM »
I often read this thread specifically to appreciate my financially competent family more.