Relatives who just don't get it

[mm1970]

Two gummy bears? Have 5! You deserve it!

Just make sure they're not the special sugar-free Haribo ones.

good one

[AMandM]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

Someone gave my MIL a gift certificate for a spa day as a treat. She called all her DILs, asking if we could go with her and use some of the GC's value, so she wouldn't have to stay there so long. The only reason she was even going was that she didn't want to hurt the feelings of the giver.

[auntie_betty]

"Treating yourself" is such an interesting thing. Every time I hear that term from someone, it's trying to get me to buy something I don't even want or like at all - it's like, "That's not a treat! That's the opposite of a treat!"

You're a grown woman! Behalve like one and start enjoying proper treats! There's something wrong with you if you don't like treating yourself with these things. You're not a child anymore.

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

[Linea_Norway]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

[Imma]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

[mm1970]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

[Threshkin]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

But the thought was good.  Many (most?) bosses wouldn't have gotten you anything at all.

[mm1970]

Recently I 'treated myself' by cracking open a new pack of washing up sponges (the kind with nylon scrubbers on one side). Five minutes later I saw a message from a friend saying she'd just treated herself to a new £100 bag........... Based on how many bags she's bought in the past I don't hold out much hope the new one will bring her any more pleasure than my washing up sponge.

:-)

I treated myself on a ice-cream last weekend, as it was such nice weather.

I bought myself a magazine on canning last weekend. That's what I would call a real treat.

I never feel guilty about giving away any beauty-related gifts. Everyone knows I hate that. If they give me a terrible gift I'm not obligated to keep or use it.

I had this lovely boss.

Years ago, when I was pregnant, I had a pretty rough pregnancy.  First, my mom died.  Then, the boss and two coworkers had a string of illnesses/surgeries/vacations scheduled, such that I basically was doing the job of two people for 3 or 4 straight months.  (and not always the same two people.  Me and boss.  Me and coworker A.  Me and coworker B.)  My stress level was through the ROOF.  So sweet boss took me to lunch when I was 8 months pregnant or so.

Gave me this lovely gift certificate for a spa so that I could get a message, or any treatment that I wanted.  Even had his wife check out a few spas to find a great one.

Can I say that I'd never had a massage?  And wasn't into spas?  And didn't know what was appropriate for a pregnancy message? 

Ah, in any event.  I waited until after I had the baby.  Was a week or two out from going back to work.  I still didn't want a massage.  I scheduled a facial.  I'd never had a facial either.  How the fuck do people breathe with hot moist air on their faces?  The technician asked "have you ever had a facial??"  Um, no, obviously.  It was definitely a waste of a couple hundred bucks.  But it wasn't my couple hundred bucks.

But the thought was good.  Many (most?) bosses wouldn't have gotten you anything at all.

Yes, it was a great thought and much appreciated.

[Jouer]

I love going to the spa with my wife - we have a nordic spa not too far from us. Most, if not all, of the baths are outside so it is beautiful there, especially in the winter. Anyways, if you book a massage, you get the cold/hot baths and other stuff for about 25% off the regular price. Works benefits pay for massages anyways so it's a nice way to get a $55 service for $40 (or since we got the massage, a $145 service for $40). We'd like to do this twice a year but we only usually make it there once a year.

[Catbert]

Okay, back to relative stories...my step son (lets call him Stehen) is in his early 40s and obese.  He's churned through a variety of jobs over the years (somehow always get hired by assholes according to him).  His most recent job was as an armoured car driver.  6+ months ago he blew out his knee at work and has been on worker's comp.  He'll never be back to that job becuase being 100 lbs overweight won't heal the knee.  I forget what kind of knee surgery was involved.

When DH was visiting in June he was clear that Stephen had gotten a settlement although he refused to tell his father that.  But Stephen was paying for dinners and treats which he has never done before.  They are getting a new furnace.  DH overhead a neighbor tell Stephen's wife that furnaces are expensive.  That he (neighbor) would be willing to install as a side job and save them a lot of money.  Wife turned him down because they "have the money at the moment."  At one point  Stephen started to say something about a "set...." and then quickly changed the sentence.  At the time I wondered why he admit that he got a settlement.  Now I know.

Now it's 3 months later.  Last night DH received a call from another son asking if Stephen had gotten a settlement.  Stephen has now asked his mother (DH's ex-wife) for money because he's broke.  DH confirmed that Stephen likely got a settlement.  Likely she give him money anyway.  Oh well, not my problem.

[87tweetybirds]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

This is the definition of “somewhat healthy relationship “ I was referring to. Is it truly a healthy relationship? Absolutely not, but there are boundaries imposed. He wants  have them in our lives, (family being very important in his culture) thus boundaries are what is required.

[Kitsune]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

This is the definition of “somewhat healthy relationship “ I was referring to. Is it truly a healthy relationship? Absolutely not, but there are boundaries imposed. He wants  have them in our lives, (family being very important in his culture) thus boundaries are what is required.

Frankly, that seems like a definition of 'somewhat healthy relationship' most families use. There are always moments where communication styles and priorities and boundaries and expectations clash, and if you can handle a status quo of not giving more (time/money/energy/whatever) than you can/want, in return for a reasonably pleasant relationship with people you (mostly) appreciate... then yay.

Or, in other words: you can pick your spouse, you can pick your friends, you're stuck with your family, and sometimes they're great and sometimes it's a damned balancing act and sometimes you cut off contact. A successful balancing act can still be (reasonably, somewhat) healthy.

[Lovelywings]

I don’t fault loveywings either. There are a lot of other red signs in the post. The cousin:

- Asked her to lend him money to trick the potential landlord into thinong he has more savings than he actually has in order to secure an apartment —> So he’s dishonest?
- Didn’t do proper research on work visas before moving here and selecting housing —> Impulsive? Lacks certain executive functioning skills? Lacks foresight?
- Asked lovelywings to co-sign the lease
- Likely intends to break the lease —> So he’s untrustworthy and doesn’t intend to keep promises?

The point is not that he immigrated to Canada with little money. The point is that he didn’t even seem to do any planning around how he and his family are going to survive, but instead seems to be holding out his hand and asking lovelywings, who is also a recent immigrant, to support him and his family. Seems kind of mooch-y to me.

Sorry, I was gone for a bit, and didn't realize there was some key background missing in my story. At the time he moved his family neither he nor his wife is able to work in Canada, at least for the next 6 months. His wife is a full time student and mother of a 2 year old. and he is a supporting spouse who is actually returning to our home country to work and will be paying her bills from there. So neither of them are able to hustle like your typical new immigrant. Hence why savings are required.

[Lovelywings]

The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

Its a bit more complicated than this, but I see where there may be confusion. We're from a middle class African country (not war-torn). My cousin and I are pretty much the first in our family (among those who keep in touch) to move to Canada. There aren't other relatives here that he or I can depend on. And I'm just not interested in being that for him. I cannot afford it. Plus to be honest, the millennial generation in my country don't believe in being economically responsible for siblings..much less cousins. We have seen how our parents supported other family members and religious institutions, only to end up with little life savings. And yet they are regularly peppered with periodic requests for money, sometimes even asking for DOLLARS. Then insulted behind their backs when they decline. My father's younger sister once asked him to give her $5000 so she could start an import business. This was at a time I was sending money home to my parents (of course he said no). The cousin in my OP once told me that until he lived with us (in his twenties), he thought my father was a millionaire. My parents aren't big spenders, but there is a kind of entitlement that my generation is starting to vocally push back against. Though, not all of us are of the same view..

 TLDR - supporting others is part of my culture. My generation is saying heck no. there isn't a big enough group of family here to be there for my cousin.

[Ever_Anon]

I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

[Hula Hoop]

The immigrants I know here are mostly from poor countries like Bangladesh, the Philippines or various African countries or war torn countries like Libya or Syria.  When they arrive the other immigrants from these countries, and especially families, support the recent immigrant.  This seems to be expected along with sending remittances to the less fortunate relatives back home.  But maybe the culture lovelywings comes from does not have this kind of support as part of its culture.

Its a bit more complicated than this, but I see where there may be confusion. We're from a middle class African country (not war-torn). My cousin and I are pretty much the first in our family (among those who keep in touch) to move to Canada. There aren't other relatives here that he or I can depend on. And I'm just not interested in being that for him. I cannot afford it. Plus to be honest, the millennial generation in my country don't believe in being economically responsible for siblings..much less cousins. We have seen how our parents supported other family members and religious institutions, only to end up with little life savings. And yet they are regularly peppered with periodic requests for money, sometimes even asking for DOLLARS. Then insulted behind their backs when they decline. My father's younger sister once asked him to give her $5000 so she could start an import business. This was at a time I was sending money home to my parents (of course he said no). The cousin in my OP once told me that until he lived with us (in his twenties), he thought my father was a millionaire. My parents aren't big spenders, but there is a kind of entitlement that my generation is starting to vocally push back against. Though, not all of us are of the same view..

 TLDR - supporting others is part of my culture. My generation is saying heck no. there isn't a big enough group of family here to be there for my cousin.

Thanks LW.  I know a Filippino guy who works as a cleaner here and is always complaining about his grasping relatives back home who think he's a millionaire because he lives in Italy.  They expect him to buy them big-screen TVs and things like that when he goes home.  I feel bad for the guy as he's just scraping by here.

Weirdly enough here in Italy there also  is this expectation of supporting siblings and other family members financially.  I have numerous foreign friends married to Italians who are driven nuts by feckless sisters and brothers in law who are supported by their spouse.  Things don't seem to be changing with younger people.  The entire culture is built on family and it goes completely against the world view of people from many other countries.

[Nederstash]

I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

Wow, that would piss me off royally. If you have children or pets, they come BEFORE all the bullshit spending like smoking and cable. It's an appalling level of arrogance. And they damn well know how to tug on your heartstrings to make you pay for the dog. Put them in the stocks and pelt them with rotten fruit!

Sorry, it's a bit of a pet peeve...

[shelivesthedream]

I often read this thread specifically to appreciate my financially competent family more.

[Roadrunner53]

I just got off the phone with my father and need to vent. He sounded a bit distracted, and when I asked why he said he was balancing their checkbook. My mom has two doctor's appointments next week with a $40 copay for each, and he needed to make sure they had enough money. Turns out they have a grand total of $95 to their name. $95! (But hey, that's just enough money for the copays!)

For context, my parents are both on disability. They get "paid" once a month, on the 3rd. That was less than two weeks ago! How the hell did they spend all their money so fast? To make matters even worse, I bought them $150 of groceries this month, so they should have been a little ahead.

My parents are legitimately poor, for reasons that are not entirely their fault. But they do still have an expensive cable package. They both smoke. They turn on every damn light in the house and can't stand the thought of the inside temperature ever not being a stable 72°f/22°c, even if that means running the heater at night and the A/C during the day. Then they call me crying because the dog is out of food and they know damn well I won't let the dog suffer. (I'm also paying any and all vet/grooming bills for the same reason.)

My sister and I have tried to talk sense into them. They won't listen. Mystical things like "budgets" or "self-control" are completely beyond their comprehension. I suppose I should be thankful that my father actually thought far enough ahead to double-check that they had money for the copays.

I hate that they do this to themselves, and I hate that they do this to me, and most of all I hate that I can't stop feeling guilty and giving into the same bullshit manipulation tactics they've been using since I was a teenager.

Ever_Anon, Your parents sound a lot like my In Laws. They are no longer alive but spent their money foolishly. FIL was a union truck driver and made good money all his life. MIL was a say at home Mom but did work a little over the years. Not enough to even get her own SS when the time came. She did have health problems too. FIL was a hobby nut. Always had to spend money on hobbies. One hobby he built a small greenhouse and that had to be heated. He would let the house run out of heating oil to supply the greenhouse that had exotic orchids that needed heat and humidity. He would go to flower shows and buy super expensive orchid bulbs all the while some utility was being shut off for non payment. They bought into a freezer plan where they got a upright freezer and their choice of meats to fill it up on a payment plan. The food was supposed to last maybe 3 months. They were like animals including my deadbeat BIL, and ate all the meat up in a months time. They would eat steak for breakfast or snacks. Then they still had freezer plan payments and no meat! MIL figured she needed to get onto the hobby train and bought these collector bride dolls from the Bradford exchange. One doll would arrive every so often. THEN she needed cabinets to put them in. In the meantime they both smoked like chimneys so you can imagine how the nicotine penetrated into those dolls dresses. If not for the union the FIL would not have had any pension money. Later on in life they ate at a local diner almost every night. They were always broke.

You and your sister need to sit down with them and find out where their money is going. Maybe the two of you can take over paying their bills. Is it possible for them to move to a senior apartment complex that has a sliding scale for apartment rent? Something has to change because they are in a rut of spending money foolishly. You and your sister need to give them some tough love and tell them they are going to be living under a bridge soon if they don't either change their ways or move to senior housing. It is very generous that you can help them with groceries and the dog. My In Laws had no concept of saving a nickel for rainy day. They were the types that ran to the bank as fast as they could, cash the paycheck, then run out to spend it.

The heating and cooling situation may seem dumb to you but old people seem to require warmer temps. If you have ever visited a nursing home you will find that it is warm, too warm for me but I believe some states require a minimum temperature that might be in the 70's. How about buying them a couple of electric blankets/throws and suggesting they turn the heat down? You might consider visiting your local senior center about senior housing. Get all your ducks in a row and maybe view some apartments before suggesting it to your parents. If they see you are knowledgeable about this new living situation, they might go for it. If you go in with no information, no costs, they might be put off. These senior apartments usually are geared to seniors needs to like transportation to doctor offices, grocery shopping and transportation to the senior center for daily activities. Good luck Anon!

[merula]

My in-laws told my kids they would pay for them to get music lessons.

Ordinarily, that'd be a great gift, far far better than the mountains of plastic crap the in-laws usually buy for them. And my kids like music. They enjoy playing around with the thrift store guitar I bought them. They sing to themselves. They seem to have good rhythm.

The problems are:
(1) I already offered my children any music lesson (or any other lesson they wanted to take), as long as they were willing to practice every day. They declined.
(2) My kids are 6 and 4. Even if they agreed to practice, it would become a major source of stress to make sure they actually do it.
(3) My in-laws are notoriously unreliable, and avoid confrontation at all costs. The payment for lessons would suddenly cease when they forgot about it, or decided they were done but didn't want to have a conversation about it. There would also be no support in getting the kids to/from the lessons (see unreliable, above).

So what did the in-laws do? They bought the kids HARMONICAS. If you ever want to torture someone with small children, buy those children musical instruments.

Luckily, the children spent less than an hour with the harmonicas before running off to bike, leaving the foul things in the grass to be confiscated.

[Kitsune]

So what did the in-laws do? They bought the kids HARMONICAS. If you ever want to torture someone with small children, buy those children musical instruments.

MUAHAHAHA.

Someone gave my kids and their cousins a large box of all-slightly-off-key recorders.

Pro tip: if you wanna hit Voldemort-status rage from a group of parents? Harmonicas, recorders, kazoos...

[AMandM]

Pro tip: if you wanna hit Voldemort-status rage from a group of parents? Harmonicas, recorders, kazoos...

Recorders are far and away the worst, because they're so high-pitched, and little kids's fingers can't cover the holes properly. Nothing but shrieks and squawks!

[ysette9]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

[shelivesthedream]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

[chaskavitch]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

Some specific relatives keep giving us toys that sing songs in terrible voices :(  Instituting a battery ban at the beginning is a good idea. Best of luck to you.

[Just Joe]

I often read this thread specifically to appreciate my financially competent family more.

Exactly. This thread redefines alot of things.

[barbaz]

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

I frequently clarify to family that battery operated toys will break very quickly at our house. Also, kids below a certain age can’t tell the difference between broken and batteries-removed

[I'm a red panda]

I appreciate the toy manufacturers who have volume options on their toys.
At 18 months, I think we only have 4 things with batteries. One doesn't have a sound option, so I have duct tape over the speaker. 
She mostly chooses books to play with, but she likes some of her sound toys too. I'm OK with them.

[AMandM]

SLtD, why doesn't your 4.5-month-old have any battery-operated toys yet despite your ban? Doesn't he have grandparents who care about his educational development?
/s

Pretty much all the battery-op toys our kids ever received were from grandparents. It amazed me, really--these are highly educated people who got that way, and who for the most part raised their own children, without the help of batteries. What marketing genius convinced them that children's intellectual development requires beeping sounds and flashing lights?

[Kitsune]

SLtD, why doesn't your 4.5-month-old have any battery-operated toys yet despite your ban? Doesn't he have grandparents who care about his educational development?
/s

Pretty much all the battery-op toys our kids ever received were from grandparents. It amazed me, really--these are highly educated people who got that way, and who for the most part raised their own children, without the help of batteries. What marketing genius convinced them that children's intellectual development requires beeping sounds and flashing lights?

I was once in a house with a kid who pressed all the buttons on like 17 battery-operated toys at once... how people can stay sane in that environment, I do not know.

My kids have 3 toys that make noise, and they're usually hidden... but sometimes, when they're in a horrible mood and I'm at my wit's end, they get taken out. It's a total band-aid solution to horrible days.

[sonjak]

Is still take a recorder over a battery-operated toy that makes noise.

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

My brother's nephew ended up in the hospital as a toddler after nearly dying from eating a battery.  It did a lot of damage before they figured out what had happened.  PSA and another reason (besides major annoyance) not to have battery-operated toys for little kids.

[zephyr911]

My mom, OH MY GOD my mom. She has GOT to learn to let the fuck go of all her THINGS.

A few months ago she raised the possibility of moving to our town, because her HCOL city has drained her dry and she's not physically able to work a lot. As it turns out, there's a big win-win here, because I had this activation coming up with the ANG, go full-time for a few months and leave town, make lotsa $$, etc, and want DW to be able to come too. So, we're like, cool Mom, how about not just move here, but move in for 180(+/-) and watch the dogs/cats during DW's extended site visit to me, so you can really recover from financial hell and save up that SS check to furnish your new place.

Well, we lock in my depart date, we line that up with her lease termination, we make a plan, and we travel there. And she's not half ready. Mom has had up to 3 storage units from end to end of the country at one point, which is all consolidated to one at this point, but it's still more shit than a family needs and half of it wasn't packed. A single woman renting a room from a family, and we packed a 16-foot truck to the roof, end to end, to bring her home with us. She talked a good game about paring down before the move, but in the end she wasn't able to part with much at all. I'm worried we're looking at borderline hoarding behavior. We packed up enough gift bags for all the presents she will ever give in her life. We packed up not one but TWO fondue sets, and a chocolate fountain, and a really cute Mickey Mouse coffeemaker that only makes enough coffee to fill the matching cup that came with it. Most of these things are in decent usable condition, but absolutely NOT worth carting around the country for possible use someday. She's so afraid of running out of money and needing this stuff someday and not being able to replace it, but she has enough rugs and dishes and blankets for two or three houses... god damn.

I kept putting the bug in her ear about using the next few months to finally make some of those decisions, letting go of the fear, etc... I don't know how much she heard. By the middle of the last morning when we were dumping all this shit into her new storage unit near our house, I hit the point of an actual breakdown, between the physical and mental marathon of handling all this shit and the other stuff I was dealing with at the same time. Let me never bring upon myself such a ridiculous material burden that it becomes a drag on those I love.

[AMandM]

Oh man, I feel for you! What an opportunity squandered!  Can you give her a few hours with a professional declutterer for Christmas?

I hope you won't come back after your deployment and find your house full of your mom's acquisitions!

[ysette9]

The story of eating a battery is incredibly scary. Gives me something to watch out for as my baby loves to put things in her mouth.

All of that stuff would probably put me at my breaking point as well. Can you use a technique that works well with kids? “This is how much volume we have. Any of your stuff that doesn’t fit gets trashed.” What a burden. I would hate to be the person to clean up that mess once the loved one dies.

[wenchsenior]

My mom, OH MY GOD my mom. She has GOT to learn to let the fuck go of all her THINGS.

A few months ago she raised the possibility of moving to our town, because her HCOL city has drained her dry and she's not physically able to work a lot. As it turns out, there's a big win-win here, because I had this activation coming up with the ANG, go full-time for a few months and leave town, make lotsa $$, etc, and want DW to be able to come too. So, we're like, cool Mom, how about not just move here, but move in for 180(+/-) and watch the dogs/cats during DW's extended site visit to me, so you can really recover from financial hell and save up that SS check to furnish your new place.

Well, we lock in my depart date, we line that up with her lease termination, we make a plan, and we travel there. And she's not half ready. Mom has had up to 3 storage units from end to end of the country at one point, which is all consolidated to one at this point, but it's still more shit than a family needs and half of it wasn't packed. A single woman renting a room from a family, and we packed a 16-foot truck to the roof, end to end, to bring her home with us. She talked a good game about paring down before the move, but in the end she wasn't able to part with much at all. I'm worried we're looking at borderline hoarding behavior. We packed up enough gift bags for all the presents she will ever give in her life. We packed up not one but TWO fondue sets, and a chocolate fountain, and a really cute Mickey Mouse coffeemaker that only makes enough coffee to fill the matching cup that came with it. Most of these things are in decent usable condition, but absolutely NOT worth carting around the country for possible use someday. She's so afraid of running out of money and needing this stuff someday and not being able to replace it, but she has enough rugs and dishes and blankets for two or three houses... god damn.

I kept putting the bug in her ear about using the next few months to finally make some of those decisions, letting go of the fear, etc... I don't know how much she heard. By the middle of the last morning when we were dumping all this shit into her new storage unit near our house, I hit the point of an actual breakdown, between the physical and mental marathon of handling all this shit and the other stuff I was dealing with at the same time. Let me never bring upon myself such a ridiculous material burden that it becomes a drag on those I love.

I've been through this as well.  My mom is less a hoarder and more a 'doesn't ever throw things away because she doesn't clean/declutter very often' and is a procrastinator.  When I was  just post-college and briefly living with her, I took the opportunity of her long work days to go through all the bags and boxes that had been in the garage for a decade (since her divorce) and threw away most of it.  A lot of it was bills and unopened junk mail that would just pile up inside until she was having people over, at which time she just dumped it in bags and put it in the garage as part of 'cleaning for company'.  Some was actually important documents.  Most was trashable or donatable...boxes of clothes that were out of style or no longer fit her, etc., and it took me about a week of working at it for 3 hours per day to get through it all.  She didn't even notice the difference until more than year  later, when I was long moved out.    She was irritated that I'd made the decisions without her permission, but she seemed relieved at never having to do it herself and couldn't argue with my logic that if she hadn't done anything for 10 years, she never was going to do it.

Similarly, when we moved her across the country to our town a few years ago, she got so overwhelmed at the idea of going through her stuff (and she didn't even own all that much) that she waited until the last few weeks to pack and then was horribly stressed. We ended up packing a 10 foot trailer plus another car.  Fortunately, we were able to leave everything that didn't fit where she had been living, and other family members eventually sorted through it. 

That was a very stressful time.  Things are much better now...she's been several years in a stable living environment in a house we bought, and she's not show much inclination to buy/accumulate, except for junk mail.  So if we have to move her again it shouldn't be as bad for any of us.

[shelivesthedream]

We have banned batteries from our house. He's only four and a half months old so this has yet to be tested, but I intend to stand firm.

I frequently clarify to family that battery operated toys will break very quickly at our house. Also, kids below a certain age can’t tell the difference between broken and batteries-removed

Exactly. We won't necessarily chuck the toy, but we just won't put any batteries in it. If it's never had any batteries ever, odds are it'll take quite a while before he figures out that it could do other (noisier!) things too. I realise I'm basically King Canute on this one, but I should at least be able to delay the tide.

[Schmidty]

Relatives who just don't get it..   Gawd, this was totally on point this past Sunday.

One of my sister's is a very high income earner and lives in the same town.  Very high consumption, finds any opportunity to spend money type.  She lives so far out of my world she just doesn't get it.

This is what happened Sunday.  My dh was off and spending his day getting our soon-to-be mobile home unskirted and unhooked and ready to move, we are moving it today.  This is after spending every day off for the past month working on it, letting the guy who owns it know it's going and what day, having the mover set up, this house was being moved.  Well, so happens spendy sister has a mobile home one of her daughters just vacated, so now she wants to unload it.

Her "great deal" was for us to move her mobile home and we can make payments to her.  Umm..  the one are moving is ours already, it was free to us if we just move it, so no payments.  We've already made an arrangement with the owner and gave him our word.  We've already have time invested in it with cleaning, ripping carpets, and the hard work of getting it ready to move.  Once moved, there will be NO payment.  To anyone, the land is ours. 

She would just NOT get it through her thick head that the whole reason we are doing this is to lower our monthly expenses, it did not register.  "But, this one is nice and ready to move into, and yours needs so much work".  Yeah, but I won't be making payments on it.  Much less, to a relative (oh hell no!!). 

All in all, she made me feel horrible for not even considering her "good deal".  I didn't ask for it, didn't want it, didn't even want to go see it.  We already gave our word, made the pad for the home to the size of the one we are moving (not her mobile home size), have moving lined up, this deal is gonna happen.  Yet, she just didn't get that we preferred the one we are moving.  In her mind, the nicer one with payments is the better option. 

After discussing it her a bit more come to find out, she will be paying lot rent and utilities on that home until she sells it, and she has paid all that for a year while it set empty before and does not want to do that again.  So, she is trying to get out of monthly payments to keep it there, and gain someone making payments to her for it.   Ummm....  HOW is this a "good deal" for me?  Seems like I would be doing her a favor, not the other way around.  But not in her eyes.  I am yet again being made to feel like a heel by not letter her do this 'favor' for me.  This is the very last person on earth I want to be beholden to, love her but hell no!

[ysette9]

I’m sorry you went through that. I don’t think the cause of the issue was your sister being high income but her being an oblivious nitwit.

I hope your move goes well.

[FireHiker]

Still working through my mother's latest drama. She has to be out of her sister's house 9/30 (she's been living rent free for the last ten years, off of other people, her sister and a friend at different times). She has a small bit of savings from her portion of an inherited property she and her siblings sold a couple years ago. Finally now that she is faced with being homeless again she is looking for a place to live, at the last possible moment so that it is a crisis. She put in an offer on one mobile home but then backed out after the inspection (reasonable enough, it was a train wreck). The latest drama (well, part of it) is that her friend lives in a mobile home retirement community on a "golf course" so she bought a golf cart because "it was too good of a deal to pass up." She doesn't even have a place to live and she used some of her meager savings to buy a golf cart!! Now she's put in an offer on a place in that same development. I'm waiting to hear how the inspection went. The lot lease is almost double what she said was her upper limit for lot lease/rent when I was looking at places for her a few months ago. But, it includes unlimited golf. She doesn't golf.

The lot lease will be 39% of her monthly income from social security/pension and will probably increase based on reviews I've read for the community. We got into a pretty heated exchange last night because I asked if she could really swing it (after doing the math and knowing she can't unless she gets some sort of part time job...which she has not been willing to even consider for the past ten years). She had the audacity to get mad at me for being worried about it, saying she hasn't asked me for anything or been dependent on anyone since 1994...which is absolute BS if you take into account the friend and her sister who have provided her with free lodging the past ten years.

She is also looking at rescue dogs already...even though she doesn't have a home lined up and won't be able to afford to appropriately care for a dog. She already has two elderly cats that have prevented her from moving in with two other friends who have offered her free lodging but are unable to have the cats in the house (allergies for one, already have older cats for the other).

She is absolutely the right candidate for Dave Ramsey; she even fervently buys into all of the religious stuff. I really think it would be life changing for her if she would give it a chance and take it seriously. I have offered to pay for her to take his class at her church, gosh, I guess it was about 4 years ago now. She said she was "good" and "didn't need it." Banging head against wall, still, always...

[ixtap]

Still working through my mother's latest drama. She has to be out of her sister's house 9/30 (she's been living rent free for the last ten years, off of other people, her sister and a friend at different times). She has a small bit of savings from her portion of an inherited property she and her siblings sold a couple years ago. Finally now that she is faced with being homeless again she is looking for a place to live, at the last possible moment so that it is a crisis. She put in an offer on one mobile home but then backed out after the inspection (reasonable enough, it was a train wreck). The latest drama (well, part of it) is that her friend lives in a mobile home retirement community on a "golf course" so she bought a golf cart because "it was too good of a deal to pass up." She doesn't even have a place to live and she used some of her meager savings to buy a golf cart!! Now she's put in an offer on a place in that same development. I'm waiting to hear how the inspection went. The lot lease is almost double what she said was her upper limit for lot lease/rent when I was looking at places for her a few months ago. But, it includes unlimited golf. She doesn't golf.

The lot lease will be 39% of her monthly income from social security/pension and will probably increase based on reviews I've read for the community. We got into a pretty heated exchange last night because I asked if she could really swing it (after doing the math and knowing she can't unless she gets some sort of part time job...which she has not been willing to even consider for the past ten years). She had the audacity to get mad at me for being worried about it, saying she hasn't asked me for anything or been dependent on anyone since 1994...which is absolute BS if you take into account the friend and her sister who have provided her with free lodging the past ten years.

She is also looking at rescue dogs already...even though she doesn't have a home lined up and won't be able to afford to appropriately care for a dog. She already has two elderly cats that have prevented her from moving in with two other friends who have offered her free lodging but are unable to have the cats in the house (allergies for one, already have older cats for the other).

She is absolutely the right candidate for Dave Ramsey; she even fervently buys into all of the religious stuff. I really think it would be life changing for her if she would give it a chance and take it seriously. I have offered to pay for her to take his class at her church, gosh, I guess it was about 4 years ago now. She said she was "good" and "didn't need it." Banging head against wall, still, always...

There is something about free housing from relatives that doesn't count against "never being given anything in my life." The in laws rarely got any rent from their daughter's family and were exemplary landlords for at least a decade. As soon as they got the call that the dryer was broke, they would drop everything to go fix it. And don't forget the frequent free daycare. But now SIL and BIL have moved out, they often comment about how they have never been given anything in their lives, everyone should figure out how to support themselves just like us...

My cousin moved in with his parents with a wife and four kids. Lived there for a couple years and got a parental loan to move out. Totally a self made man.

[MgoSam]

But now SIL and BIL have moved out, they often comment about how they have never been given anything in their lives, everyone should figure out how to support themselves just like us...

What you just described if 99% of humanity. I think Craig T Nelson said it best, I've been on foodstamps and welfare. Anybody help me out? No."

[Linea_Norway]

My mom, OH MY GOD my mom. She has GOT to learn to let the fuck go of all her THINGS.

A few months ago she raised the possibility of moving to our town, because her HCOL city has drained her dry and she's not physically able to work a lot. As it turns out, there's a big win-win here, because I had this activation coming up with the ANG, go full-time for a few months and leave town, make lotsa $$, etc, and want DW to be able to come too. So, we're like, cool Mom, how about not just move here, but move in for 180(+/-) and watch the dogs/cats during DW's extended site visit to me, so you can really recover from financial hell and save up that SS check to furnish your new place.

Well, we lock in my depart date, we line that up with her lease termination, we make a plan, and we travel there. And she's not half ready. Mom has had up to 3 storage units from end to end of the country at one point, which is all consolidated to one at this point, but it's still more shit than a family needs and half of it wasn't packed. A single woman renting a room from a family, and we packed a 16-foot truck to the roof, end to end, to bring her home with us. She talked a good game about paring down before the move, but in the end she wasn't able to part with much at all. I'm worried we're looking at borderline hoarding behavior. We packed up enough gift bags for all the presents she will ever give in her life. We packed up not one but TWO fondue sets, and a chocolate fountain, and a really cute Mickey Mouse coffeemaker that only makes enough coffee to fill the matching cup that came with it. Most of these things are in decent usable condition, but absolutely NOT worth carting around the country for possible use someday. She's so afraid of running out of money and needing this stuff someday and not being able to replace it, but she has enough rugs and dishes and blankets for two or three houses... god damn.

I kept putting the bug in her ear about using the next few months to finally make some of those decisions, letting go of the fear, etc... I don't know how much she heard. By the middle of the last morning when we were dumping all this shit into her new storage unit near our house, I hit the point of an actual breakdown, between the physical and mental marathon of handling all this shit and the other stuff I was dealing with at the same time. Let me never bring upon myself such a ridiculous material burden that it becomes a drag on those I love.

I hope you are able to get your mother to move out again when you are back.
Try to find something close by, so she can use the same storage unit.

[Just Joe]

Humorous tween POV: making youngest dinner last night. Ask child to come put water in the big pot and get it boiling. Was told I needed to say "please" - and child was serious.

I reminded child I was making dinner for them with this hot water, not the other way around.

All I could think of was all these relatives storied here that take family and friends for granted. We have years to get this child sorted out. ;)

The teenage drama will be strong with this child we expect.

[ixtap]

Humorous tween POV: making youngest dinner last night. Ask child to come put water in the big pot and get it boiling. Was told I needed to say "please" - and child was serious.

I reminded child I was making dinner for them with this hot water, not the other way around.

All I could think of was all these relatives storied here that take family and friends for granted. We have years to get this child sorted out. ;)

The teenage drama will be strong with this child we expect.

So, you don't believe in modelling proper manners for your child? I am not sure they are the one who doesn't get it here.

[Goldielocks]

Humorous tween POV: making youngest dinner last night. Ask child to come put water in the big pot and get it boiling. Was told I needed to say "please" - and child was serious.

I reminded child I was making dinner for them with this hot water, not the other way around.

All I could think of was all these relatives storied here that take family and friends for granted. We have years to get this child sorted out. ;)

The teenage drama will be strong with this child we expect.

Just Joe.  I had a similar situation this summer, with my 49 year old sister.  We were on vacation together.  She was anxious about schedules, so part way through she made me tell a friend (three of us on the trip together) that we may have to kick her off (of vacation!) if her pace could not keep up, (she was slow, but making it fine) and then made us agree to an exceptionally early start the next day (not needed).

I asked her to be the one to fetch the bags in the morning before we go, to make it faster in the morning.

"You didn't say please".

  Nope!  I did not, I was pissed at you and accommodating your request and making my friend feel bad for you.  Asking you civilly was the best I could do.  Does an apology for not saying please really matter that much to you in this moment?!  As my sister could you not have a smidgen of compassion for me right now? 

There is a time and a place to remind someone about their manners.  When they are already frustrated with you  is not a good time and shows an utter lack of graciousness.

[ysette9]

 Always force my kid to say “please” and I try to always say it to her as well to model what I want her to do. I’m not perfect but I try. She hasn’t yet turned it around on me but I expect it is just a matter of time.

[Just Joe]

Goldielocks gets the gold star here. I say please all the time with our children and my spouse. However last night was an exceptionally trying night with the pre-teen drama on high. Doesn't want to do homework, doesn't want to share the TV, doesn't want to go to bed, doesn't want to help with the dishes or dinner. Occasionally just WON'T. Thus my drama references.

I say please and the tween WON'T help? Then announces that they are hungry but WON'T help with a simple part of what I'm doing for THEM in the first place? Some nights I know they look like a young teen but they act like a mule.

I'm helping with their math homework and ask them to sharpen the pencil - and the youngin' demands I say "please"? Looks and sounds more like a power play than manners.

Its probably part of our recent normal: older teen is graduated and working second shift. Seldom home during waking hours. Both kids get along well. DW has been involved in a Shakespeare production that keeps her busy many evenings recently. "Teen-please" is hitting that stage where they are trying to figure out where they fit in the universe/hormones/boredom/maybe lonely. Anyhow I make a good verbal sparring partner apparently.

Sorry if my reply seems a little disorganized. Long day and fast typing.

[zolotiyeruki]

In my experience, a child who tells their parent to say "please" is nearly always trying to do one of the following:
1) deflect attention away from themselves when they're getting negative attention
2) make themselves feel better, by putting down the parent for an imperfection.  Also known as bullying
3) excuse their own lack of manners

Just Joe, you're very right--it's a power play.

[Just Joe]

Short version: things came to a head last night while DW was out of the house. Long talk with Tween. Things are better.

A blinding reminder that this kid is not wired the same as our other kid. Not wired like me. More like DW. That's a positive thing. DW has a tougher shell though. Life provides that, doesn't it?

The "please" crap was a symptom. A safe way to poke at the bear (me). This kid is much more emotional and takes some things to heart that aren't worth the worry and ignores some things that are important (like helping around the house). Now to reflect and adapt and lead the best I can.

We have ten years to get this one tuned up so that they are prepared for all the things life can toss at a person. How to react. How to communicate. What to value and what to discard (emotionally, mentally). All those topics that a functional adult needs to master.

Some of it comes back to the kinds of discussions we have here. if a person can't successfully navigate "life" they may have trouble making money and managing it. We want our kids to be able to "launch" and be successful and happy at the same time. And to build happy relationships with people around them. I think our kid will be okay. Makes me think of all the kids that don't have supportive adults in their life and how that translates to an adulthood with continuing trials and tribulations. And how potentially that affects all of us collectively. Their kids might go to school with our kids. We share the roads, neighborhoods and economy with them. Gotta stop here. Too much to think about. Work to do. ;)

[zolotiyeruki]

The "please" crap was a symptom. A safe way to poke at the bear (me). This kid is much more emotional and takes some things to heart that aren't worth the worry and ignores some things that are important (like helping around the house). Now to reflect and adapt and lead the best I can.

We have ten years to get this one tuned up so that they are prepared for all the things life can toss at a person.

You're absolutely right.

More than one of our kids have hit a stage in the 8-11-year range where they get occasionally get really ornery, bitter, spiteful, etc at certain things.