Relatives who just don't get it

[ducky19]

I think fiscally conservative and socially liberal describes a lot of folks here - a "live and let live" philosophy, better known as the Libertarian party. If only we could get someone more electable than Gary Johnson on the ticket, I think we'd have a shot at breaking down the two party system that has failed this country utterly. Not trying to derail the thread, apologize in advance if it does!

[Rubic]

I think fiscally conservative and socially liberal describes a lot of folks here

Yep.  I've described myself in exactly those words since George W. Bush Bill Clinton was president.

[Nicholas Carter]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

[onlykelsey]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

Oof.  I had a father like that.  He once threatened to sue teenaged me for money my dead mother (to whom he was not married) left me for college.  I know now that was a toothless threat, but talk about dependent behavior.

[Cool Friend]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

Jesus, is that even legal?

[RWD]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

Jesus, is that even legal?

No, it is certainly not. It's identity theft, as mentioned by patchyfacialhair. This comes up often on reddit's /r/personalfinance/ section. Some parents just don't care that they throw their children under the bus to get ahead temporarily.

The unfortunate thing is because they are "family" a lot of people are hesitant to report them to the police. Your two options are claim fraud and risk having your family member locked up or eat the cost, live with your crappy credit score, and hope they don't do it again...

[Just Joe]

...and go low contact. Never again would I want untrustworthy people - even parents - to get a peek into my financial and professional life.

[merula]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

That's absolutely terrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you.

There are a group of us on here who do "tradeline sales" in which we add people who want to raise their credit score as authorized users on our credit cards to  temporarily raise their credit scores. This strategy can also work when people you know add you as an authorized user on their cards. If you're still hurting from a credit perspective, PM me and I can talk you through the details; you can potentially save quite a bit in mortgage interest.

[marion10]

I had a friend who taught at a private school that was for high achieving low income youth. This was a regular occurence when her seniors turned 18- that a family member (often a parent) would either fraudulently take out credit cards using their information or get them to be a co-signer. Horrible- she tried to warn kids- but they felt they could not go against their family.

[UnleashHell]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...

In the kind of family where a parent feels entitled to steal from a son or daughter, there's generally a whole lot of toxic programming that starts at birth. One person-- let's call him or her the Emperor-- is entitled to do whatever he or she wants to the designated target-- let's call him or her the Peasant. The Peasant's job is to work hard, not complain, serve the Emperor, and make sure to always forgive the Emperor no matter what.

The kind of extreme entitlement that leads to stealing from a relative *always* has a basis in fact. Someone, somewhere, teaches the thief that it's OK to do such things and that not only will there never be any negative consequences, but the theft is right and appropriate. For the victim to object or to seek legal redress is in fact wrong and inappropriate according to family rules. There are often people besides the Emperor or the Peasant who reinforce the family rules to keep the Peasants in line.

[Nicholas Carter]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...

It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:

• Paying it
• Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party

I chose not to press charges.

[fredbear]

...It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:

• Paying it
• Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party

I chose not to press charges.

She has your SSN.

Visit each credit bureau’s site to get more information about placing a security freeze on your credit report.

    Equifax: Freeze Your Equifax Credit Report, 1-800-685-1111 (NY residents 1-800-349-9960)
    Experian: Freeze Your Experian Credit Report, 1-888-397-3742
    TransUnion: Freeze Your TransUnion Credit Report, 1-888-909-8872

After yet another of his drug-based frauds and arrests, I commented to the mother of my half-brother that maybe he'd get to do time, this time.  She was outraged.  I told her, "I don't say that with any pleasure.  But nothing you have done, nothing his father did, nothing any of us has done, has done any good at all.  There's no point in repeating what we've done.  Our best efforts have failed.  To the tune of $10,000s.  Maybe another way will reach him.  Clearly we can't."

[barbaz]

my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.

Jesus, is that even legal?

No, it is certainly not. It's identity theft, as mentioned by patchyfacialhair. This comes up often on reddit's /r/personalfinance/ section. Some parents just don't care that they throw their children under the bus to get ahead temporarily.

That this is even possible baffles me more than how you are still using checks in the 21st century

[Nicholas Carter]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!

Two hours after you made this post, my mother called me to ask, for the fifth time this year, for a loan. I told her that I didn't have any money to give her. She asked if I would put her car payment on my credit card.

What's a shame to me is that, growing up, I remember my mother being a model parent. In college if she asked once or twice a year for money, I was doing the same over the holiday breaks, and that only seemed fair.  But over time, I've needed fewer and fewer 'loans', and she's needed more and more. It also turns out I'm not the only person she's borrowing money from. She borrowed 1600 dollars from my younger brother a month ago.
A lot of the women in my family have struggled with early-onset dementia, and sometimes I wonder... my mother is getting to be the right age...

[Candace]

...It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:

• Paying it
• Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party

I chose not to press charges.

She has your SSN.

Visit each credit bureau’s site to get more information about placing a security freeze on your credit report.

    Equifax: Freeze Your Equifax Credit Report, 1-800-685-1111 (NY residents 1-800-349-9960)
    Experian: Freeze Your Experian Credit Report, 1-888-397-3742
    TransUnion: Freeze Your TransUnion Credit Report, 1-888-909-8872

After yet another of his drug-based frauds and arrests, I commented to the mother of my half-brother that maybe he'd get to do time, this time.  She was outraged.  I told her, "I don't say that with any pleasure.  But nothing you have done, nothing his father did, nothing any of us has done, has done any good at all.  There's no point in repeating what we've done.  Our best efforts have failed.  To the tune of $10,000s.  Maybe another way will reach him.  Clearly we can't."

+1. Definitely freeze your credit reports. This will help protect your identity.

I'm very sorry this happened to you. Good luck going forward.

[UnleashHell]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!

Two hours after you made this post, my mother called me to ask, for the fifth time this year, for a loan. I told her that I didn't have any money to give her. She asked if I would put her car payment on my credit card.

What's a shame to me is that, growing up, I remember my mother being a model parent. In college if she asked once or twice a year for money, I was doing the same over the holiday breaks, and that only seemed fair.  But over time, I've needed fewer and fewer 'loans', and she's needed more and more. It also turns out I'm not the only person she's borrowing money from. She borrowed 1600 dollars from my younger brother a month ago.
A lot of the women in my family have struggled with early-onset dementia, and sometimes I wonder... my mother is getting to be the right age...

I'd be asking her what her plan was for paying back the money it cost you to sort out the credit cards she opened in your name. plus interest.

[former player]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

4 times? she's already had 3 gifts of money from you!

Two hours after you made this post, my mother called me to ask, for the fifth time this year, for a loan. I told her that I didn't have any money to give her. She asked if I would put her car payment on my credit card.

What's a shame to me is that, growing up, I remember my mother being a model parent. In college if she asked once or twice a year for money, I was doing the same over the holiday breaks, and that only seemed fair.  But over time, I've needed fewer and fewer 'loans', and she's needed more and more. It also turns out I'm not the only person she's borrowing money from. She borrowed 1600 dollars from my younger brother a month ago.
A lot of the women in my family have struggled with early-onset dementia, and sometimes I wonder... my mother is getting to be the right age...

I'd be asking her what her plan was for paying back the money it cost you to sort out the credit cards she opened in your name. plus interest.

Yes, send her a bill for what it's cost you to pay off the cards, with a note saying that you will be happy to discuss her financial needs after she has repaid the amount she took out on those cards.  No worries, you'll never have to even discuss any future loans.

[dandarc]

...It was explained to me, quite clearly, that there were two ways to discharge the debt:

• Paying it
• Bringing creditors the police report and court findings against the guilty party

I chose not to press charges.

She has your SSN.

Visit each credit bureau’s site to get more information about placing a security freeze on your credit report.

    Equifax: Freeze Your Equifax Credit Report, 1-800-685-1111 (NY residents 1-800-349-9960)
    Experian: Freeze Your Experian Credit Report, 1-888-397-3742
    TransUnion: Freeze Your TransUnion Credit Report, 1-888-909-8872

After yet another of his drug-based frauds and arrests, I commented to the mother of my half-brother that maybe he'd get to do time, this time.  She was outraged.  I told her, "I don't say that with any pleasure.  But nothing you have done, nothing his father did, nothing any of us has done, has done any good at all.  There's no point in repeating what we've done.  Our best efforts have failed.  To the tune of $10,000s.  Maybe another way will reach him.  Clearly we can't."

Agree with this - mom might borrow the money whether NC knows it or not.

fredbear - From what I've seen, doing time probably won't really change anything for your half-brother.  Maybe for a short time, but at least in my family's experience, jail isn't so bad by itself to spur long-term change. What it will do is give the family a break from all of the addict's bullshit - won't be confronted with all the crazy behavior unless you choose to be if they're in jail. Depending on how bad off the person is, it could be a step up in terms of being a relatively safe environment too.

[Cool Friend]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...

In the kind of family where a parent feels entitled to steal from a son or daughter, there's generally a whole lot of toxic programming that starts at birth. One person-- let's call him or her the Emperor-- is entitled to do whatever he or she wants to the designated target-- let's call him or her the Peasant. The Peasant's job is to work hard, not complain, serve the Emperor, and make sure to always forgive the Emperor no matter what.

The kind of extreme entitlement that leads to stealing from a relative *always* has a basis in fact. Someone, somewhere, teaches the thief that it's OK to do such things and that not only will there never be any negative consequences, but the theft is right and appropriate. For the victim to object or to seek legal redress is in fact wrong and inappropriate according to family rules. There are often people besides the Emperor or the Peasant who reinforce the family rules to keep the Peasants in line.

Oh yes, I grew up with a parent who did this.  I started working at 15 because I was on my own for school lunch, clothes, etc.  I had to open a joint checking account with my mom because I was a minor.  She regularly dipped into this account without telling me.  When I found out, she told me that this was money I "owed" her (presumably for the food and shelter she was legally obliged to provide).  By the way, she was the one who verbally abused me until I got the job.  It all fell into place why: she saw me as an extra income source to fuel her atrocious financial habits.  I started cashing my checks and hiding the money in increasingly obscure places because she would tear through my room when I wasn't home.

[FIRE@50]

I had to hide my paychecks from my mom until I was old enough to get my own checking account. I used to just slide them under the bottom desk drawer in my room. Took them all to the bank at once right before I went to college.

[87tweetybirds]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

[Catbert]

DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.

[ixtap]

DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.

Now that is how you do a midlife crisis!

[Lanthiriel]

Update: I tried to have a conversation with my mom when she was here, but she assured me that she’s planning to sell the truck and trailer. And that my dad plans to retire in 2 years so she has money coming. She has finally looked up her social security benefits and it sounds like she’s only expecting $500/mo from social security and $400/mo from her teacher’s pension. But at least that’s something.

Then my sister calls me today to tell me that my mom told her she had to take a cash advance on her credit card to pay her bills because of her two week unpaid vacation. What happened to the $25k I know she had after she closed on her house only 9 months ago?! Is it possible she’s lived that far beyond her means in that time? My sister also said that from her conversations with dad, it doesn’t sound like he’ll retire as soon as he is eligible but will work probably  another 5 years.

After listening to my mother describe all of the furniture she’s purchased since she moved into her house, my husband made it very clear that she will never see a penny from us. It’s actually freeing to have someone willing to just say no. Period. But still... what a mess.

[SwordGuy]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

[Cassie]

LAN, what Ames’s indeed. Hopefully she won’t ask any of the kids for money and just figures it out. Hope her health holds up because she is going to have to work for a very long time.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

[Slee_stack]

DH and  I have a birthday lunch each year with his sister and her son b/c all 4 of our birthdays are the same month.  We only see the nephew a couple of times a year, some years only once.

A little background:  In the past nephew has been a jeans, tee shirt and tats kinda guy.  A couple of years ago he bought   leased a car so he could make money doing Uber.  That worked as well as you would expect.  Earlier this year he got a steady job.  Not high paying but 40 hours a week with health insurance at a company you've actually have heard of.  Things are looking up.  Now...

He comes in the restaurant dressed  like a rapper (or at least what my 65 y.o. eyes think a rapper looks like):  oversized football jersey, baggy, long shorts, lots of jewelry (cheap in his case), baseball hat with a flat brim, shaved head etc.  He's all about his music and how his music career is taking off.  Showed us how he can "play" guitar on his iphone X.  How he's playing in the barrio and is "the only white boy who dares go there".  How all the girls on his instagram post bikini pics.  He uses cool filters (available only on iphone X) to take pics of him getting out the shower with a towel wrapped around his waist.  How he's going to start a charity for poor single mothers which sounds like a great way to meet vunerable young women.

Typical not-got-their-act-together 20-something behavior you say?  Maybe he'll outgrow it and get his act together.? Yea, maybe.  Except he's 49.  How long until he gives up the steady job so he can devote more time to his music is anybody's guess.

Sounds like nephew has nailed the aspiring part of the 'aspiring rapper' phrase that seems to pop up so often.

[SwordGuy]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

Wonder how many people will get this reference?

[zolotiyeruki]

Peace for our time, eh?

[shelivesthedream]

One of the big barriers to getting DH to save was a similar problem. As a young boy his Aunt took him to open a savings account, into which he deposited money from various little jobs. After his parents (primarily his mother) found out about it she had him withdraw everything he had saved to "loan" them money to pay bills, (never repaid of course) and thereafter would regularly request for teenage DH to pay some of the household bills. He also had to pay for his own high school education (he lived in a country where education was free until about grade 6). Took some convincing to help him see that his mother had no business knowing the details of our finances, and to only tell her what he was willing to share (disclosure of income without accompanying disclosure of matching expenses is met with requests for $ for "needs" such as vacations to the beach, nice dinner out, etc). They have no real idea how much we make or save. He has managed to maintain a somewhat healthy relationship by telling them he would send x amount of money a month, and that's it.

@87tweetybirds ,


I disagree.  You've managed to maintain an appeasement relationship by doing this.   It's not healthy, far from it.

Have to agree. He's effectively exchanged monthly payments for peace and harmony. OK, that might be worth it to you guys. Only you can judge that. I'd be well down the path to 'fuck off', myself.

If the only way to have a relationship with my mother is to give her money so she doesn't harass me, that's not a relationship I want to maintain.

I read "healthy" as in "healthy for him". He feels like he's supporting her but it's a fixed amount each month so he can budget for it and not stress about endless random requests for money. He doesn't want to have zero relationship with her, so this is a way he can have boundaries that are manageable and enforceable but not have to stress too much about it.

[a286]

In February my wife and I got denied for our first mortgage. A decade ago, my mother took out three credit cards in my name, to 'pad my credit score'.
I found out in the meeting with the loan agent that my mother took those cards, maxed out their balances, then quit making payments on them.
By May I had payed off the cards, which took quite a bit of life efficiency and putting off other investments.
In the time since February my mother has asked me for a loan four times.

So...your mother committed identity theft...and you paid the bills to cover up for her? Wow...

In the kind of family where a parent feels entitled to steal from a son or daughter, there's generally a whole lot of toxic programming that starts at birth. One person-- let's call him or her the Emperor-- is entitled to do whatever he or she wants to the designated target-- let's call him or her the Peasant. The Peasant's job is to work hard, not complain, serve the Emperor, and make sure to always forgive the Emperor no matter what.

The kind of extreme entitlement that leads to stealing from a relative *always* has a basis in fact. Someone, somewhere, teaches the thief that it's OK to do such things and that not only will there never be any negative consequences, but the theft is right and appropriate. For the victim to object or to seek legal redress is in fact wrong and inappropriate according to family rules. There are often people besides the Emperor or the Peasant who reinforce the family rules to keep the Peasants in line.

Oh yes, I grew up with a parent who did this.  I started working at 15 because I was on my own for school lunch, clothes, etc.  I had to open a joint checking account with my mom because I was a minor.  She regularly dipped into this account without telling me.  When I found out, she told me that this was money I "owed" her (presumably for the food and shelter she was legally obliged to provide).  By the way, she was the one who verbally abused me until I got the job.  It all fell into place why: she saw me as an extra income source to fuel her atrocious financial habits.  I started cashing my checks and hiding the money in increasingly obscure places because she would tear through my room when I wasn't home.

Grims example is spot on for me. And yours. Also verbally abused here. Honestly surprised my dad did not dip into my savings account after I got my first job, but he could have before then or during my freshman year of college and I wouldn't have known. All I knew is I put $2k in graduation gifts in there on top of some money from my high school job and withdrew occasionally from an atm on campus... towards the end of spring semester sophomore year I was a little short on living expenses from my job the previous summer, so I asked my dad to send some money (this is what the extra from the PLUS loans was for, supposedly, see below). When I got home that summer I open the first statement from the savings account and it had..  $81.

The straw that broke the camel's back:

My dad always volun-told me that I would be supporting him in his old age, and giving him a job running the office of my vet clinic (I applied, didn't get in, and now mainly thank my lucky stars for that because that is some crazy debt for an over saturated field...). I was always like, haha, good joke... as this was in high school and college, but he always had a serious note to it...

Then I found out that when my parents took out PLUS loans when I went to college, he took the max amount every year (only needed maybe half) and he told me I owed him the $100k in PLUS loans, though he couldn't show where the other $50k he didn't need to take out went.

I think I dodged a major bullet not getting into vet school...

[LaineyAZ]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

[SwordGuy]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

If he has a mortgage on it, then the insurer is spot on right to require the repairs be made.   They are providing insurance both to the homeowner and to the mortgage owner.    Ditto with a car.


If there is no loan on the property, and the repairs are cosmetic (i.e., not leading to additional damage or liability), I doubt the insurer would require the repairs to be made.   

They certainly didn't when we had both our cars totaled by cosmetic hail damage!   ($10,000 richer!)   But they also wouldn't pay for additional body damage unless we proved the repairs had been done...

[merula]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

If he has a mortgage on it, then the insurer is spot on right to require the repairs be made.   They are providing insurance both to the homeowner and to the mortgage owner.    Ditto with a car.


If there is no loan on the property, and the repairs are cosmetic (i.e., not leading to additional damage or liability), I doubt the insurer would require the repairs to be made.   

They certainly didn't when we had both our cars totaled by cosmetic hail damage!   ($10,000 richer!)   But they also wouldn't pay for additional body damage unless we proved the repairs had been done...

Assuming that the brother's insurance has Replacement Cost coverage rather than Actual Cash Value, then not only does the mortgage company get to require that the repairs actually be made, the insurance company can too.

Let's say that the damaged roof/siding was approximately halfway through its useful life. The cost of brand-new roofing/siding is $15,000, but the brother didn't lose brand-new roofing/siding, he lost halfway-depreciated stuff, so the actual value of it is $7,500. Typically, you're required to prove that you actually replaced what you lost to get a Replacement Cost payment, otherwise you just get the actual cash value of what you lost.

The advantage from the insurance company's standpoint (and the mortgage company, for that matter) is that repaired roofing/siding is going to better protect against future storms.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

https://notalwaysright.com/recession-part-70/97384/

[merula]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

https://notalwaysright.com/recession-part-70/97384/

That happens so frequently that my company started paying the shop directly. The fact that she didn't actually try to claim injuries is somewhat remarkable; people who will spend an insurance payment on something other than the damages is not usually someone who cares all that much about telling the truth.

[SwordGuy]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

https://notalwaysright.com/recession-part-70/97384/

That happens so frequently that my company started paying the shop directly. The fact that she didn't actually try to claim injuries is somewhat remarkable; people who will spend an insurance payment on something other than the damages is not usually someone who cares all that much about telling the truth.

Well, there's a blanket statement...


We had two cars totaled from hail damage.   Cars worked perfectly fine, just lots and lots of cosmetic damage, i.e., dents.
   Company totaled the cars, we bought them back for pennies on the dollar and netted $10,000 in cash. 

Put that money to work in a rental property that would make us money instead of fixing the dents.  Not clear how that makes me less likely to tell the truth or indicates I'm a liar.

Wife got rear-ended once.  Crushed the back station wagon door and scuffed the plastic coating on the back bumper.   We fixed the funtional damage (the door).   Couldn't just get a plastic cover for the bumper, had to buy an entire bumper assembly.   Wife took some windex and some sand paper, applied it to the plastic, and it looked (mostly) as good as new.  We put the portion of the payment for the bumper unit into a new roof on our house.  Covered half the cost of the roof.   Not sure why that would indicate I'm less than truthful, either.


Some damage needs to be fixed -- other damage doesn't NEED to be fixed.   And it just makes good sense to use the money for things that don't NEED to be fixed on things that provide more value, either because they need to be fixed or they will provide additional income.

[onlykelsey]

Not my relative, but heard this story from a friend this week about her brother:

There was a hail storm that caused damage to her brother's roof and house siding.  Fortunately his insurer agreed to cover it to the tune of $15,000.  But, brother was upset that his mortgage company insisted on his using it to actually repair the house.  He told my friend that he'd wanted to pocket the money and just ignore the damage (!) 

(as much as we like to rag on insurance companies, they must get a little crazy with insureds like this who see any incident as an easy way to riches...)

https://notalwaysright.com/recession-part-70/97384/

That happens so frequently that my company started paying the shop directly. The fact that she didn't actually try to claim injuries is somewhat remarkable; people who will spend an insurance payment on something other than the damages is not usually someone who cares all that much about telling the truth.

Well, there's a blanket statement...


We had two cars totaled from hail damage.   Cars worked perfectly fine, just lots and lots of cosmetic damage, i.e., dents.
   Company totaled the cars, we bought them back for pennies on the dollar and netted $10,000 in cash. 

Put that money to work in a rental property that would make us money instead of fixing the dents.  Not clear how that makes me less likely to tell the truth or indicates I'm a liar.

Wife got rear-ended once.  Crushed the back station wagon door and scuffed the plastic coating on the back bumper.   We fixed the funtional damage (the door).   Couldn't just get a plastic cover for the bumper, had to buy an entire bumper assembly.   Wife took some windex and some sand paper, applied it to the plastic, and it looked (mostly) as good as new.  We put the portion of the payment for the bumper unit into a new roof on our house.  Covered half the cost of the roof.   Not sure why that would indicate I'm less than truthful, either.


Some damage needs to be fixed -- other damage doesn't NEED to be fixed.   And it just makes good sense to use the money for things that don't NEED to be fixed on things that provide more value, either because they need to be fixed or they will provide additional income.

But I assume you don't have a car loan.  It's a different story when the insurance is required not just to protect your means of transportation, but also your lender's collateral. 

[merula]

Well, there's a blanket statement...

Yes, it is.

We started doing it because there are way more people like the lady in the story than like you. Of course, if we owe for damages, we will pay by direct check as well, but it'll come printed with a statement about how this is all you're getting.

There's no requirement that we must pay the shop, but for people who ARE repairing their damages, paying the shop directly tends to cut down on a lot of issues. Think of it as saving people from themselves so they don't have to find a way to come up with the money.

[Paul der Krake]

I don't understand why the insurer cares whether or not the lender's collateral is getting what they want. Shouldn't that just be a matter between the insured and the lender?

[merula]

I don't understand why the insurer cares whether or not the lender's collateral is getting what they want. Shouldn't that just be a matter between the insured and the lender?

Theoretically, yes. The insurer has a contract with the insured, the insured has a contract with the lender, the insurer and the lender have no contractual relationship.

Traditionally, lenders lent on the basis of collateral; the home or the car. They quickly figured out that, if the collateral was damaged, the insured/borrower could collect the insurance payment but not repair the collateral, and the lender would be SOL.

So lenders created two solutions to this problem: (1) they inserted themselves into the insurer/insured contract by making insurance loss payee status a condition of the loan contract, and (2) changed the terms of the loan contract to allow them to collect from the borrower beyond the collateral stated, if the collateral proves insufficient.

Fun story: about 10 years back, someone I worked with was writing the insurance on a POS mini golf course. The thing burned down (of course it did, it was a POS firetrap), so we wrote out the check to the owner and called it a day. EXCEPT that the underwriter who handled the account had been lazy and instead of putting on a loss payee form saying "POS Bank LLC", they put the form on saying "As per schedule on file with the company". When the Claims department called up saying "Where's this schedule?" the guy couldn't find it, so he told Claims there wasn't any loss payee on file.

A few months later, POS Bank realizes they haven't been getting paid, go to investigate and find their collateral a bombed out ruin. They contact us because the owner had given them a certificate saying "look, you're a loss payee", and they're able to show that the insured HAD submitted a schedule listing them.

So we paid that claim twice. Good times.

The lazy guy is still with the company. Last I heard, he'd gotten promoted. Insurance is a great career path, kids.

[Just Joe]

Some damage needs to be fixed -- other damage doesn't NEED to be fixed.   And it just makes good sense to use the money for things that don't NEED to be fixed on things that provide more value, either because they need to be fixed or they will provide additional income.

The insurance payout can go towards your car (which is paid off) or into your pocket AFAIC. The other driver removed some of the resale value of your car. You can choose to repair the car or pocket that resale value loss.

I've been rear-ended a couple of times (once while the car was parked in a lot). Each time I repaired the car for pennies and pocketed the check. Actually bought tires for said car or grew my savings a little more.

[SwordGuy]

Some damage needs to be fixed -- other damage doesn't NEED to be fixed.   And it just makes good sense to use the money for things that don't NEED to be fixed on things that provide more value, either because they need to be fixed or they will provide additional income.

The insurance payout can go towards your car (which is paid off) or into your pocket AFAIC. The other driver removed some of the resale value of your car. You can choose to repair the car or pocket that resale value loss.

I've been rear-ended a couple of times (once while the car was parking in a lot). Each time I repaired the car for pennies and pocketed the check. Actually bought tires for said car or grew my savings a little more.

My cars have no "resale value" when I get rid of them.    If I get more than $500 as a courtesy offer from the dealer, I didn't drive the car long enough. 

[Dave1442397]

My cars have no "resale value" when I get rid of them.    If I get more than $500 as a courtesy offer from the dealer, I didn't drive the car long enough.

A friend of mine had a car that was so bad the dealer said he'd have to charge him $200 to take it on trade. He said it would cost that much for him to deal with scrapping it :)

[Uturn]

My cars have no "resale value" when I get rid of them.    If I get more than $500 as a courtesy offer from the dealer, I didn't drive the car long enough.

A friend of mine had a car that was so bad the dealer said he'd have to charge him $200 to take it on trade. He said it would cost that much for him to deal with scrapping it :)

Years ago, my then wife and I were trading her 12 year old Accord for a 5 year old Accord.  I was tired of working on the old one, plus it was just getting too unreliable.  The salesman took it to his manager to get a bid.  He comes back with the bid sheet, laughing.  The manager just wrote "ouch, no" in big letters. 

[Slow&Steady]

My cars have no "resale value" when I get rid of them.    If I get more than $500 as a courtesy offer from the dealer, I didn't drive the car long enough.

A friend of mine had a car that was so bad the dealer said he'd have to charge him $200 to take it on trade. He said it would cost that much for him to deal with scrapping it :)

Years ago, my then wife and I were trading her 12 year old Accord for a 5 year old Accord.  I was tired of working on the old one, plus it was just getting too unreliable.  The salesman took it to his manager to get a bid.  He comes back with the bid sheet, laughing.  The manager just wrote "ouch, no" in big letters.

Over the last year we have welcomed 4(!) new kids into the house (our baby, a 12, 13, & 18 year olds) so we got a new used van.  When we went to test drive it the dealer was asking if we would trade in our car.  It was a 2006 Prius with (almost) 300k miles on it, the look on his face was pretty priceless as he tried to figure out a way to tell us that he couldn't offer us anything for a car with 300k miles on it.  We had no intention of trading it in, it became the full size bumper car for the 18 year old until he broke her for good in the last accident. 

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

My cars have no "resale value" when I get rid of them.    If I get more than $500 as a courtesy offer from the dealer, I didn't drive the car long enough.

A friend of mine had a car that was so bad the dealer said he'd have to charge him $200 to take it on trade. He said it would cost that much for him to deal with scrapping it :)

Years ago, my then wife and I were trading her 12 year old Accord for a 5 year old Accord.  I was tired of working on the old one, plus it was just getting too unreliable.  The salesman took it to his manager to get a bid.  He comes back with the bid sheet, laughing.  The manager just wrote "ouch, no" in big letters.

That surprises me. I had a 1999 accord that I traded in in 2016--so it was a solid 17 years old but only had 180K. I got the $500 courtesy offer. I was thinking of trying to sell it myself because I think I could have gotten a grand, maybe $1500, but I got them to throw in a set of snow tires and spare TPMS sensors and called that good. So I like to say I traded my car to $500 and snow tires.

I would have kept it longer but I was a newly single mom, it was my only transportation, the transmission was going, and my grandfather was worried about me. He wanted me to have $10K with which to buy a used car and I very sensibly spent it on a five-year-old Fit.

[mm1970]

My cars have no "resale value" when I get rid of them.    If I get more than $500 as a courtesy offer from the dealer, I didn't drive the car long enough.

A friend of mine had a car that was so bad the dealer said he'd have to charge him $200 to take it on trade. He said it would cost that much for him to deal with scrapping it :)

Years ago, my then wife and I were trading her 12 year old Accord for a 5 year old Accord.  I was tired of working on the old one, plus it was just getting too unreliable.  The salesman took it to his manager to get a bid.  He comes back with the bid sheet, laughing.  The manager just wrote "ouch, no" in big letters.

we traded in a 12 or 13 year old POS Saturn.  They gave us $450.  Considering blue book was $800 and it was non-functional and needed AT LEAST $350 of work, we were good with that.