Relatives who just don't get it

[Pooperman]

We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"

To be honest, I've had enough catered food to know that sometimes, good ol' normal food in a relaxed atmosphere with good company is a lot more enjoyable.  We had our wedding luncheon at Golden Corral!  We wanted to make sure that the many nieces and nephews had something they'd enjoy.

In my case catered is probably the wrong word. We had a supplier make big trays of salads, side dishes, and a sheet cake, nothing to do with typical wedding grub. Cost a couple of hundred bucks, and eliminated the burden of doing it ourselves, or relying on relatives. Golden Corral is an interesting move. I haven't been to one, but they put a new very big one in our area, and it's absolutely the most successful place in a high traffic multi-mile stretch of restaurant options. The parking lot is typically overflowing by 5PM.

If we'd gotten married here instead of in NY, we'd have done something in a park with BBQ from a local chain as out 'catering'. That stuff is amazing!

[MgoSam]

We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"

To be honest, I've had enough catered food to know that sometimes, good ol' normal food in a relaxed atmosphere with good company is a lot more enjoyable.  We had our wedding luncheon at Golden Corral!  We wanted to make sure that the many nieces and nephews had something they'd enjoy.

In my case catered is probably the wrong word. We had a supplier make big trays of salads, side dishes, and a sheet cake, nothing to do with typical wedding grub. Cost a couple of hundred bucks, and eliminated the burden of doing it ourselves, or relying on relatives. Golden Corral is an interesting move. I haven't been to one, but they put a new very big one in our area, and it's absolutely the most successful place in a high traffic multi-mile stretch of restaurant options. The parking lot is typically overflowing by 5PM.

I love this idea. If I ever get married I would love to send out family members to get trays of various foods for a "family reunion." That way we can get a little of everything and still be cheaper than buying food for a 'wedding.'

[mm1970]

I got married last month in the US and I initially asked my bridesmaids to just pick out whatever navy blue, knee length dresses they wanted (hopefully they would each already have one, or they could buy really cheap ones) and they could wear whatever shoes, jewelry, etc they wanted.  I was trying to be easy, but everyone seemed to have a problem with it.  Our moms, my DH's sister, the bridesmaids themselves, everyone made a big deal out of how I was pushing the work of choosing things onto them, and how are they supposed to know what I want, and the pictures will be ruined if one of them chooses something bad.  Ugh.  Eventually I found azazie.com that sells cheap bridesmaid dresses and I picked the fabric and length, then told them each to pick whatever dress style they wanted.  The dresses ranged from $89-$120, which were MUCH cheaper than the $300 dress I had to buy when I was a bridesmaid.  (This also seemed like a good compromise because they would all "match" but they could pick out whatever dress style looked the best for their body shape.  When I was a bridesmaid the bride picked a style that looked the best on the other bridesmaids who were all overweight and busty - I looked terrible in it because it didn't flatter me at all.)  Everyone seemed much happier with that 2nd option.  We also didn't do the whole "professional" hair and makeup thing - we just put on our own makeup and did our hair together before the ceremony. 

My bridesmaids did pay for their own attire, but the bridesmaid gifts I gave them cost essentially the same as their dresses*, and they wore shoes they already had. 

My sister is the exception, because of bad planning.  I told her multiple times that the dress company takes 9-12 weeks to make the dress after you order it.  She did not listen and decided to finally order her dress like, 4 weeks before the wedding so the $90 dress ended up costing $300 with rush-order pricing.  The dress arrived a few days before the wedding and she and my mom didn't tell me they were worried it wouldn't come in time until after it arrived.

This sounds a bit familiar.

I had 4 bridesmaids, and I wanted it to be cheap and easy.  So I took the 2 local ones (not my sister or SIL) with me to a fabric store.  We/they chose a very simple knee-length tank dress with jacket.  I bought all of the Navy Blue fabric, the zippers, the thread for the dress.  It was up to the bridesmaids to have them made, but they all assured me that could be done.  (My friend S's mom sews, made her wedding dress 2 years later.  My aunt made my sister's.  My MIL made my SIL's.  The only unknown was P.)

It all worked out EXCEPT for P (who got married a month after we did) - her mother could have made the dress, but P told me later (at her wedding) that she was pretty sure her mom would procrastinate.  So P hired a seamstress.  And paid $200.  I felt so bad!  I could have made her dress for her!  I wondered why I got so many questions - how long should the dress be, where should the sleeve fall, etc.  I said "whatever is more comfortable for you".  So all dresses were a bit different - my sister had a front slit, my friend S had her mom make a different jacket, my SIL had a back slit.  I didn't care that they weren't the same.

Well, at least P got use out of it.  She made her sister wear it for her wedding.  The only thing that pissed off the sister is that P was supposed to be the "fat" sister (I guess she was overweight in HS?  Never was when I knew her.)  Dress fit both of them the same.

[Just Joe]

We tried to go simple as in no gifts, bring a covered dish and we had access to an antique building with no electricity (conveniently located but Walton TV show like church)

We actually pulled this off. For a few reasons there was zero interference from any family. We got married in a sweet little church that was very low key. A few rented tuxes, a gown from JC Penney, cheap brides maid dresses, and no crazy expensive parties or diners beforehand. We then invited everybody to a picnic after the church, lots of catered trays of food, and dogs and burgers, kegs of beer, coolers of soda, etc..... We thought it was a great day, and decades later, occasionally a friend, or family member, will look at one of us and say, " Ya' know, I think your wedding was the best one I ever went to"

I'm so envious!

We were somewhat successful at keeping costs down I think.

DW's dress was a couple hundred I think. Us guys rented tux's of course. The bridesmaids were wearing affordable dresses too I think. The modern church we ended up using was had for a small donation.

I would have been much more relaxed with a cooler of drinks/covered dish affair with music.

Our elders had certain expectations though. Must put on a nice event for the peers of our elders.

Us "youngins" didn't know what we were doing dontcha know. HAHAHA

[JordanOfGilead]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

[Just Joe]

Hey, we're still talking about relatives and their expensive expectations... They still don't get "it" even with weddings...

[jinga nation]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Yup. Go Orange or go home.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Thank christ for that.

[Pooperman]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

[FiguringItOut]

My own wedding was more than 2 decades ago, and the bridesmaids were just requested to wear hunter green dresses in a style they felt was flattering to them (they had dramatically different body types) - in the USA, though this seems to be unusual.

I did the exact same thing almost 18 years ago.  And also in hunter green.
Actually, I told my bridemaids to just wear green dresses.  I didn't see any of these dresses, except my sister who was maid of honor, until the wedding day.  They all ended up in exactly the same shade of hunter green but different styles.  However, the color pulled it all together so well, that many guests didn't even realize that these were different dresses.

[mustachepungoeshere]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

[Dollar Slice]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

[Pooperman]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Orange is the new black box. Might need to recover it to see the crash data.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Orange is the new black box. Might need to recover it to see the crash data.

Personally, still finding the wedding relatives who don't get it a tad more interesting than the ever so clever posts about foam.

[JordanOfGilead]

Anybody here have a themed wedding? I hear that FOAM is a really popular theme lately....

Mine was themed well enough. It was fall themed--the centerpieces were about fall (pictures in my journal somewhere), the ties of the groom (me) and the best man were the same (orange) with a black suit. The cake was fall themed as well. That was the extent of the theming. The centerpieces were made by me so it's not like they cost a ton (about $250 for 15 tables if I remember right). We bought the ties and gave them to the people who needed them.

Woosh...

Is that the sound it makes when people run headlong through a thread full of foam? ;-)

Orange is the new black box. Might need to recover it to see the crash data.

Personally, still finding the wedding relatives who don't get it a tad more interesting than the ever so clever posts about foam.

All my fiancee talks about is wedding planning. I don't come here to read about it too.

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[TexasStash]

I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


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[paddedhat]

I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


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Departed FIL owned a medium sized manufacturer of toys. Back when you could actually employ a few dozen Americans to build toys, in a big brick building, in a northeastern city. As he was becoming quite elderly, he took a luxury domestic barge of a car, and traded it in at the Buick dealer. The dealer screwed him severely, and ended up with about $12-15K more than they deserved. My BIL stepped in, and tried to mediate some of his affairs. He found out that the old guy's remaining assets, about 1/3rd of a million, had been sitting in a saving account earning essentially nothing. The FIL was stunned that anybody would suggest anything more risky than that, leading us to believe that he had probably done so for his entire life. He married into the family, late in life, so it's hard to imagine the life he could of led, and how many millions he could of left to his biological children, if he just asked one of the boys at the golf club, or some manager he found through his church, to manage his money?

[Shinplaster]

I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Departed FIL owned a medium sized manufacturer of toys. Back when you could actually employ a few dozen Americans to build toys, in a big brick building, in a northeastern city. As he was becoming quite elderly, he took a luxury domestic barge of a car, and traded it in at the Buick dealer. The dealer screwed him severely, and ended up with about $12-15K more than they deserved. My BIL stepped in, and tried to mediate some of his affairs. He found out that the old guy's remaining assets, about 1/3rd of a million, had been sitting in a saving account earning essentially nothing. The FIL was stunned that anybody would suggest anything more risky than that, leading us to believe that he had probably done so for his entire life. He married into the family, late in life, so it's hard to imagine the life he could of led, and how many millions he could of left to his biological children, if he just asked one of the boys at the golf club, or some manager he found through his church, to manage his money?

In his defense, it sounds like he may have been old enough to be a child of the depression.  Watching the struggles their parents had, and seeing families lose everything in the market may have scared him off from ever putting money there.  It did my parents - my paternal grandparents went from moderately wealthy to pretty low middle class by the early 30's.  My parents at least had the sense to search out safe investments that gave a better return than savings accounts, but my Dad would never trust the market with their money.

[Hula Hoop]

I have generally pretty smart relatives when it comes to finances, so my only complaint is when some of them keep six figure savings in a crappy old traditional savings account making 0.05% interest. Especially while still bringing in high six figure income. Seems like such a waste to keep so much in cash and miss out on this latest market run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Departed FIL owned a medium sized manufacturer of toys. Back when you could actually employ a few dozen Americans to build toys, in a big brick building, in a northeastern city. As he was becoming quite elderly, he took a luxury domestic barge of a car, and traded it in at the Buick dealer. The dealer screwed him severely, and ended up with about $12-15K more than they deserved. My BIL stepped in, and tried to mediate some of his affairs. He found out that the old guy's remaining assets, about 1/3rd of a million, had been sitting in a saving account earning essentially nothing. The FIL was stunned that anybody would suggest anything more risky than that, leading us to believe that he had probably done so for his entire life. He married into the family, late in life, so it's hard to imagine the life he could of led, and how many millions he could of left to his biological children, if he just asked one of the boys at the golf club, or some manager he found through his church, to manage his money?

In his defense, it sounds like he may have been old enough to be a child of the depression.  Watching the struggles their parents had, and seeing families lose everything in the market may have scared him off from ever putting money there.  It did my parents - my paternal grandparents went from moderately wealthy to pretty low middle class by the early 30's.  My parents at least had the sense to search out safe investments that gave a better return than savings accounts, but my Dad would never trust the market with their money.

My dad was born during the depression and watched his father's small business falter in the 1950s and my grandparents end up penniless.  He had his savings in a savings account but, luckily, his pension plan (teacher's pension plan) came with a dedicated financial advisor who seems pretty straight shooting and apparently isn't trying to sell my dad anything.  Since my dad trusted this guy, he put his savings into stocks and bonds and has done quite well over the last few years.  Too bad that didn't happen with your FIL.

[paddedhat]

You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.

[Gronnie]

You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.

So basically if they lost "everything" they would be leading the exact same life? Logic not even once.

[Hula Hoop]

You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.

So basically if they lost "everything" they would be leading the exact same life? Logic not even once.

Isn't that the whole point of MMM though?  We live like people in a much lower income bracket in order to achieve FIRE.  For most of us, even if we lost our life savings, we'd just keep living the same way we've always lived - bike or walk everywhere, eat inexpensively at home, keep the heat turned down, buying second hand etc.

[Cassie]

It is sad to be living that way at 80 when you can afford to live better.  Someone else will spend the $ if they don't.

[paddedhat]

You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.

So basically if they lost "everything" they would be leading the exact same life? Logic not even once.

Isn't that the whole point of MMM though?  We live like people in a much lower income bracket in order to achieve FIRE.  For most of us, even if we lost our life savings, we'd just keep living the same way we've always lived - bike or walk everywhere, eat inexpensively at home, keep the heat turned down, buying second hand etc.

There is a huge gap between living the depression mentality and your idyllic description. When you're wearing rags, huddled around a wood stove to keep warm, and are not eating well since "food is too expensive" AND you have a multi-million dollar net worth, you are not thinking rationally, much less living a virtuous MMM lifestyle. I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there currently struggling much like a some of the older relatives, friends, and associates of mine, who went through some pretty rough shit growing up. People who didn't eat if they couldn't grow it, catch it in a stream, or shoot it. Family of mine that lived in coal mine company towns and walked the railroad tracks with a bucket, searching for coal that fell of the trains.  They were early elementary school aged at the time and it wasn't a game, it was their chore, and it kept the house warm in the dead of winter. I'm in my mid-fifties, my parents were born in the mid-1940s, their parents were from the teens and twenties. One of my grandfathers was abandoned at an orphanage, along with three brothers, since their parents wanted a better life for them. Another grandfather was five years old when his very wealthy father dealt with the great stock market crash by swallowing a bullet. Some of these folks were extremely successful and well adjusted, until the day they died. Others were a bit "off", and some never got over the trauma and suffered from the time they were children, until they died 70-80 years later.

Stories like this are important when viewed in the context of our current political mess, and the way the rural white underclass seems to have suddenly erupted in rage. Don't forget that many older folks in this demographic are one generation away from those that fought their way out of some really brutal conditions in this country. They know what it's like to have very little, and struggle to scratch an existence out of almost nothing. They saw their families fight their way to a decent middle class lifestyle and watch it go away, like the tide going out. They may of rallied behind a con-man and will eventually get screwed by the guy, but they aren't going to suddenly go away, or give up. They find little romance is biking to work, living below their means, or minimalist philosophical musings. They want the American dream that, in their minds, somebody robbed them of.

[NorCal]

You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.

So basically if they lost "everything" they would be leading the exact same life? Logic not even once.

Isn't that the whole point of MMM though?  We live like people in a much lower income bracket in order to achieve FIRE.  For most of us, even if we lost our life savings, we'd just keep living the same way we've always lived - bike or walk everywhere, eat inexpensively at home, keep the heat turned down, buying second hand etc.

There is a huge gap between living the depression mentality and your idyllic description. When you're wearing rags, huddled around a wood stove to keep warm, and are not eating well since "food is too expensive" AND you have a multi-million dollar net worth, you are not thinking rationally, much less living a virtuous MMM lifestyle. I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there currently struggling much like a some of the older relatives, friends, and associates of mine, who went through some pretty rough shit growing up. People who didn't eat if they couldn't grow it, catch it in a stream, or shoot it. Family of mine that lived in coal mine company towns and walked the railroad tracks with a bucket, searching for coal that fell of the trains.  They were early elementary school aged at the time and it wasn't a game, it was their chore, and it kept the house warm in the dead of winter. I'm in my mid-fifties, my parents were born in the mid-1940s, their parents were from the teens and twenties. One of my grandfathers was abandoned at an orphanage, along with three brothers, since their parents wanted a better life for them. Another grandfather was five years old when his very wealthy father dealt with the great stock market crash by swallowing a bullet. Some of these folks were extremely successful and well adjusted, until the day they died. Others were a bit "off", and some never got over the trauma and suffered from the time they were children, until they died 70-80 years later.

Stories like this are important when viewed in the context of our current political mess, and the way the rural white underclass seems to have suddenly erupted in rage. Don't forget that many older folks in this demographic are one generation away from those that fought their way out of some really brutal conditions in this country. They know what it's like to have very little, and struggle to scratch an existence out of almost nothing. They saw their families fight their way to a decent middle class lifestyle and watch it go away, like the tide going out. They may of rallied behind a con-man and will eventually get screwed by the guy, but they aren't going to suddenly go away, or give up. They find little romance is biking to work, living below their means, or minimalist philosophical musings. They want the American dream that, in their minds, somebody robbed them of.

Good point.  I know the stories of what my grandparents when through in the Great Depression and WWII.  I have nothing but respect for that generation, and no judgements of the lifelong habits that came out of it.

[faithless]

Yep, my parents are retired and pretty well off, Dad having 3 decent pensions from the coal and steel industries, and having lived very frugally most of their lives. Whilst they've loosened the purse strings and eat out, and go on some expensive holiday tours, old habits die hard.

They were both born in the late 40s in the aftermath of WW2 in the UK and grew up poor. They both can't throw away anything that could still be useful. They don't hoarding actual junk like old newspapers, but when mum chucked out a ~15 year old tracksuit that she'd worn initially around the house, then the garden when it got too scruffy for the house, Dad rescued it from the bin for him to wear around the garden.

I can't stop Mum ripping out scraps of paper and leaving them by the phone, for notes. It's next to the front door so one of the first things you see when you walk in the house. I bought her a cute notepad specifically for that, she keeps it under the pile of scraps.

[Imma]

You are correct, as near as I can tell he was born at the start of the great depression, either '29 or '30, and raised in a euro-ethnic, inner city neighborhood. The city was a steel company town, run by brutal management that considered workers to be disposable. So, nationally and at home, a lot of instability.  I can certainly understand and sympathize with his story. I have run into others like this, including the last occupants of our first fixer-upper house we moved into. They lived in a 600 sq. ft. cottage and huddled around a wood stove since they didn't want to waste money on the electric heat. They were in their eighties, and held seven figures worth of electric utility stocks.

So basically if they lost "everything" they would be leading the exact same life? Logic not even once.

Isn't that the whole point of MMM though?  We live like people in a much lower income bracket in order to achieve FIRE.  For most of us, even if we lost our life savings, we'd just keep living the same way we've always lived - bike or walk everywhere, eat inexpensively at home, keep the heat turned down, buying second hand etc.

There is a huge gap between living the depression mentality and your idyllic description. When you're wearing rags, huddled around a wood stove to keep warm, and are not eating well since "food is too expensive" AND you have a multi-million dollar net worth, you are not thinking rationally, much less living a virtuous MMM lifestyle. I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there currently struggling much like a some of the older relatives, friends, and associates of mine, who went through some pretty rough shit growing up. People who didn't eat if they couldn't grow it, catch it in a stream, or shoot it. Family of mine that lived in coal mine company towns and walked the railroad tracks with a bucket, searching for coal that fell of the trains.  They were early elementary school aged at the time and it wasn't a game, it was their chore, and it kept the house warm in the dead of winter. I'm in my mid-fifties, my parents were born in the mid-1940s, their parents were from the teens and twenties. One of my grandfathers was abandoned at an orphanage, along with three brothers, since their parents wanted a better life for them. Another grandfather was five years old when his very wealthy father dealt with the great stock market crash by swallowing a bullet. Some of these folks were extremely successful and well adjusted, until the day they died. Others were a bit "off", and some never got over the trauma and suffered from the time they were children, until they died 70-80 years later.

Stories like this are important when viewed in the context of our current political mess, and the way the rural white underclass seems to have suddenly erupted in rage. Don't forget that many older folks in this demographic are one generation away from those that fought their way out of some really brutal conditions in this country. They know what it's like to have very little, and struggle to scratch an existence out of almost nothing. They saw their families fight their way to a decent middle class lifestyle and watch it go away, like the tide going out. They may of rallied behind a con-man and will eventually get screwed by the guy, but they aren't going to suddenly go away, or give up. They find little romance is biking to work, living below their means, or minimalist philosophical musings. They want the American dream that, in their minds, somebody robbed them of.

Great post. I'm late 20s myself, but my grandparents were born in the 10s-30s and I recognize these stories from them. I have friends who compare our generation to the Depression generation and they have no idea. They're right about stagnation and slow recovery in the current economy (we are in Europe, but we are basically from the social group you describe) but thank God we're not living in the 1930s. Many people didn't even survive the 1930s and serious malnutrition was widespread. My grandparents looked years younger than their calendar age in childhood pictures due to malnutrition - and those are the grandparents whose family could afford to have pictures taken. Two of my four grandparents lost their mothers during the Depression because they couldn't afford medical care. The third grandparent's mother owned a small property which allowed her to take out a mortgage to afford the operation that saved her life.

I'm glad my own grandmother, who is well in her 80s, has no problems spending money, but she worries about a few of her friends. They don't spend any money on themselves or on their own care, even if they have plenty of money. A now deceased friend of hers would eat jars of microwaved baby food instead of real food. Cooking was physically difficult for her and apparantly baby food was cheaper than microwave meals. She had several kids living nearby who tried to buy proper food for her or wanted to cook for her, but she just plainly refused. She didn't want to spend her own money on herself and certainly couldn't accept her children spending money on her.

Another friend only eats one meal a day - half of the cheapest microwave meal in the shop. She does gift all her children and grandchildren €5000/year each. A third friend with a paid off house worth almost half a million EUR never calls people to avoid the high phone bill. She waits until people call her. It's really sad that these people seem to suffer through the last years of their lives instead of enjoying them while they still can. It must be really hard for their children and grandchildren to watch. You can't really do anything about it if they are still mentally fully capable of making these decisions. It's definitely a life affecting trauma and I have the impression for many people it gets worse when they age.

[fruitfly]

I read all 78 pages of this thread! I feel so accomplished/depressed. But slightly better about my old past bad choices which don't seem that bad now.

Re: the Depression mindset. My grandmother liked to tell us about serving in soup kitchens during the Depression, and how it was Hoover's fault and never to vote for Republicans. :D Her mother had immigrated to the US in 1920, had three kids, her husband died in September 1929, and she didn't have a job or speak any English. She raised chickens and rabbits and had a big veggie garden to get her through (She was very Ur-Mustachian and raised my mother to be as well). According to my mother, my grandmother basically lived the same life she had in Spain and didn't really feel the Depression that badly.

My friends and I like to quote Oh Brother Where Art Thou? when discussing how we can't afford something expensive or we are re-using something.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=tSC-NAN1O-A

[Cassie]

My Mom grew up during the depression and literally had 2 dresses. She would come home from school and hand wash her 1  school dress. There is a reason that many old homes have very few closets. No one had anything to put in them.  The whole neighborhood shared 1 car and 1 partyline phone.  I am sure most don't even know what type of phone that was.  They didn't go hungry because of their big garden. It was a tough life.  There is a huge difference between living below your means and worrying about how to keep a roof over your head and food on the table for your kids.

[Hash Brown]

My grandfather told me that the county was desperate for cash in the 30s since many people were not paying property taxes and sent a small army of dog catchers out on motorcycles to capture unlicensed dogs and force their owners to pay to get them out of the pound. The great fault of the scheme was the sound of the motorcycles, which could be heard coming from at least a half-mile away since there weren't many vehicles on the road.  So there was usually enough time to call the dog and get him inside and out of sight of the dog catcher.  But one time they weren't quick enough and the dog catcher took away Fritz and his father didn't have the money to get him out of the pound. 

[TheGrimSqueaker]

My Mom grew up during the depression and literally had 2 dresses. She would come home from school and hand wash her 1  school dress. There is a reason that many old homes have very few closets. No one had anything to put in them.  The whole neighborhood shared 1 car and 1 partyline phone.  I am sure most don't even know what type of phone that was.  They didn't go hungry because of their big garden. It was a tough life.  There is a huge difference between living below your means and worrying about how to keep a roof over your head and food on the table for your kids.

What you describe as a tough life was normal for most of humanity throughout history. Getting and maintaining food and shelter has always been a concern.

The amount of clothing ordinary people have today, for example, is unprecedented. The same can be said of their transportation, communication, and entertainment options.

[mustachepungoeshere]

They didn't go hungry because of their big garden.

Peter Cundall started growing food as a child after losing two siblings to malnutrition in Depression-era working class England. He became Australia's favourite TV gardener (apologies to Don Burke fans).

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/barefoot-investor/barefoot-investor-how-garden-guru-peter-cundall-achieves-real-wealth/news-story/e98a595e2d11df9da7adee49c6c6be75

[paddedhat]

My grandfather told me that the county was desperate for cash in the 30s since many people were not paying property taxes and sent a small army of dog catchers out on motorcycles to capture unlicensed dogs and force their owners to pay to get them out of the pound. The great fault of the scheme was the sound of the motorcycles, which could be heard coming from at least a half-mile away since there weren't many vehicles on the road.  So there was usually enough time to call the dog and get him inside and out of sight of the dog catcher.  But one time they weren't quick enough and the dog catcher took away Fritz and his father didn't have the money to get him out of the pound.

I just moved out of a rural mountain area, and knew quite a few who lived through the depression, which really lasted until the end of the second war, when things got a lot better for many there. The first thing that came to mind with the dog catcher story was, nobody would of taken the job in the first place in my area, since you just didn't screw your neighbor, and second, a job like that is the kind of thing that might cause you to simply disappear, never to be heard from again.

An old neighbor told me that when she was a little girl of about seven, she stood up to get off the school bus at her rural farmhouse. The driver said, "honey, you are going to wait to get out until the next  house past your's. They will tell you why. Just pretend that you are live there and walk right in." She got off the bus and walked into the house. The neighbor told here that the game wardens were hunting for her daddy and had he farm surrounded. For the next three days the wardens were watching the place, round the clock. At that point things were bad enough that,  if you didn't hunt you didn't eat, and her dad, like many, didn't care too much for hunting rules and regulations. Dad spent the entire time hiding in the barn, and the family, and neighbors treated the house like it was abandoned. The wardens were held in such contempt that they were ignored until they gave up and left.

[Linea_Norway]

Yesterday my brother sent me he children's wish list for Christmas. Good idea to make such a list. But it was completely full with Lego car for scenario 1, Lego car for scenario 1, Lego car for scenario 3. And to 20 times per child.
They have so many cars and stuff already, that I refuse to give them another car. Last year some people didn't understand the check-off option on the wish list and the 2 children ended up with getting 3! large fire trucks. I understand why my brother and his wife had to buy a larger house last year.

Last year we gave one of the children an extra present, which was a bird house that you could paint and then hang up in your garden. The boy started to cry, because it was not a Lego car from his list! What a drama and what are these children spoiled (mostly by their grandmothers I think, but the parents don't seem to make an effort to stop it).

I ended up ordering a Monopoly Junior game and a puzzle, that were also only the lists, somewhere at the bottom.

[Imma]

Yesterday my brother sent me he children's wish list for Christmas. Good idea to make such a list. But it was completely full with Lego car for scenario 1, Lego car for scenario 1, Lego car for scenario 3. And to 20 times per child.
They have so many cars and stuff already, that I refuse to give them another car. Last year some people didn't understand the check-off option on the wish list and the 2 children ended up with getting 3! large fire trucks. I understand why my brother and his wife had to buy a larger house last year.

Last year we gave one of the children an extra present, which was a bird house that you could paint and then hang up in your garden. The boy started to cry, because it was not a Lego car from his list! What a drama and what are these children spoiled (mostly by their grandmothers I think, but the parents don't seem to make an effort to stop it).

I ended up ordering a Monopoly Junior game and a puzzle, that were also only the lists, somewhere at the bottom.

So many young kids I know are so spoiled and entitled, it's really going to be a problem when they're older. You can hardly blame the kids, it's a sad thing to see them growing up from sweet and funny babies into spoiled rotten kids and eventually into extremely annoying adults. The oldest kid in our group of friends is about 12 and you can clearly see the damage done already.

I went to a kid's 4th birthday party a couple of weeks ago and I'm not joking that he got at least 50 presents. His grandparents spoil him to death (and it's become kind of a competition between the grandparents) the parents want to give something special too, they invited all the kids from his class and all the parents' friends to his birthday. The poor kid was visibly super bored going through this mountain of gifts, he didn't even look at what he unwrapped anymore, he didn't care. Then people got angry at him because he didn't appear thankful enough. And three months later in December he will probably get even more gifts - last year he spent 4 hours straight unwrapping presents and then he fell asleep and they weren't even done yet.

It's awful to see how many of these gifts are disposable - the kind of things you use twice and then throw away. I try to give him Lego because that's a toy that lasts  / can be sold secondhand , or colouring books or pencils because they can be used up. They live in an apartment and it looks like a toy shop. I know it's easy to say when you don't have kids yet, but every time we go to a kids party, my fiance and I tell each other we won't let that happen if we ever have a family.

[Million2000]

My grandfather told me that the county was desperate for cash in the 30s since many people were not paying property taxes and sent a small army of dog catchers out on motorcycles to capture unlicensed dogs and force their owners to pay to get them out of the pound. The great fault of the scheme was the sound of the motorcycles, which could be heard coming from at least a half-mile away since there weren't many vehicles on the road.  So there was usually enough time to call the dog and get him inside and out of sight of the dog catcher.  But one time they weren't quick enough and the dog catcher took away Fritz and his father didn't have the money to get him out of the pound.

I just moved out of a rural mountain area, and knew quite a few who lived through the depression, which really lasted until the end of the second war, when things got a lot better for many there. The first thing that came to mind with the dog catcher story was, nobody would of taken the job in the first place in my area, since you just didn't screw your neighbor, and second, a job like that is the kind of thing that might cause you to simply disappear, never to be heard from again.

An old neighbor told me that when she was a little girl of about seven, she stood up to get off the school bus at her rural farmhouse. The driver said, "honey, you are going to wait to get out until the next  house past your's. They will tell you why. Just pretend that you are live there and walk right in." She got off the bus and walked into the house. The neighbor told here that the game wardens were hunting for her daddy and had he farm surrounded. For the next three days the wardens were watching the place, round the clock. At that point things were bad enough that,  if you didn't hunt you didn't eat, and her dad, like many, didn't care too much for hunting rules and regulations. Dad spent the entire time hiding in the barn, and the family, and neighbors treated the house like it was abandoned. The wardens were held in such contempt that they were ignored until they gave up and left.

Reminds me of something my father told me growing up. Near our town (edge of suburbs, small midwestern city) there were forests where you'd occasionally see deer. Talking with my dad shortly after seeing some in a field, he remarked that it was even more rare to see one when he was a kid living in the area. This didn't make sense to me, where we lived was all forest when he was small but he explained that during the Depression most of the deer population was hunted by the hungry populace to such an extreme they were practically wiped out. 50 years later they were just then coming back. I take this more than just a anecdotal story, my father went to school to become a game warden and majored in wildlife studies, he knows this stuff pretty well.

[ducky19]

Our kids are now preteen and teen, and they know to expect fewer gifts at Christmas. They recognize that so many of the gifts they used to get were just "filler" so they had more presents to open, and those items usually ended up getting shelved after just a few weeks worth of play. Last year, their biggest gift was a road trip from IL to AZ to see their cousins. We stopped at two national parks on the way out, two national monuments on the way back, and went horseback riding in the Saguaro National Park while we were there. The other few gifts they got were related to the travel. So far, this has been our best Christmas! DW and I stopped giving each other gifts a few years ago, we just didn't feel the need anymore. We do still do stockings, but those are usually filled with consumables we'd buy anyhow. This year's Christmas break will be spent decluttering the house as we have entirely too much crap.

[Imma]

I remember as a kid I used to be a bit jealous that half of the gifts I got were clothes, pyamas, socks etc and some of my friends got only toys. Now I'm happy my parents did one big gift each (in my case, nearly always Lego) a book, a small toy, some chocolate and useful things as filler.

My s/o and I don't normally give gifts to each other, but we're planning on doing it this year. We have a friend over and she's done so much for us, she deserves to be spoiled. I know she loves getting surprise gifts. But we're going to give mostly homemade and/or useful things, not random cheap crap. I've sewed 2 pairs of pyama pants already, only 1 left to do. I have bought some fabrics that she'll like (she's crafty) I've found a recipe for cookies she can eat with all her food allergies, those kind of things.

[Dave1442397]

My grandfather told me that the county was desperate for cash in the 30s since many people were not paying property taxes and sent a small army of dog catchers out on motorcycles to capture unlicensed dogs and force their owners to pay to get them out of the pound. The great fault of the scheme was the sound of the motorcycles, which could be heard coming from at least a half-mile away since there weren't many vehicles on the road.  So there was usually enough time to call the dog and get him inside and out of sight of the dog catcher.  But one time they weren't quick enough and the dog catcher took away Fritz and his father didn't have the money to get him out of the pound.

I just moved out of a rural mountain area, and knew quite a few who lived through the depression, which really lasted until the end of the second war, when things got a lot better for many there. The first thing that came to mind with the dog catcher story was, nobody would of taken the job in the first place in my area, since you just didn't screw your neighbor, and second, a job like that is the kind of thing that might cause you to simply disappear, never to be heard from again.

An old neighbor told me that when she was a little girl of about seven, she stood up to get off the school bus at her rural farmhouse. The driver said, "honey, you are going to wait to get out until the next  house past your's. They will tell you why. Just pretend that you are live there and walk right in." She got off the bus and walked into the house. The neighbor told here that the game wardens were hunting for her daddy and had he farm surrounded. For the next three days the wardens were watching the place, round the clock. At that point things were bad enough that,  if you didn't hunt you didn't eat, and her dad, like many, didn't care too much for hunting rules and regulations. Dad spent the entire time hiding in the barn, and the family, and neighbors treated the house like it was abandoned. The wardens were held in such contempt that they were ignored until they gave up and left.

Reminds me of something my father told me growing up. Near our town (edge of suburbs, small midwestern city) there were forests where you'd occasionally see deer. Talking with my dad shortly after seeing some in a field, he remarked that it was even more rare to see one when he was a kid living in the area. This didn't make sense to me, where we lived was all forest when he was small but he explained that during the Depression most of the deer population was hunted by the hungry populace to such an extreme they were practically wiped out. 50 years later they were just then coming back. I take this more than just a anecdotal story, my father went to school to become a game warden and majored in wildlife studies, he knows this stuff pretty well.

We certainly have no shortage of deer now. I regularly see herds of them in my backyard, ten miles from downtown Philadelphia.

[zolotiyeruki]

We certainly have no shortage of deer now. I regularly see herds of them in my backyard, ten miles from downtown Philadelphia.

Yeah, in Wisconsin where I grew up deer actually became a pest.  They cull a LOT of the herd every year.

[saguaro]

I went to a kid's 4th birthday party a couple of weeks ago and I'm not joking that he got at least 50 presents. His grandparents spoil him to death (and it's become kind of a competition between the grandparents) the parents want to give something special too, they invited all the kids from his class and all the parents' friends to his birthday. The poor kid was visibly super bored going through this mountain of gifts, he didn't even look at what he unwrapped anymore, he didn't care. Then people got angry at him because he didn't appear thankful enough. And three months later in December he will probably get even more gifts - last year he spent 4 hours straight unwrapping presents and then he fell asleep and they weren't even done yet.

This reminds me of when our niece and nephew were small.  Gift giving at Christmas was at a level I had never seen before.  Between parents and grandparents, those kids had so many gifts they were sitting there just stunned after they finished unwrapping everything.   They couldn't really even start playing with toys they just got, they were so tired.  Even DH, who was much more indulged in childhood than I was, was shocked. 

Later we learned that MIL would take the kids to Toys R Us, walking them through to pick anything they wanted.  It made gift giving for us nearly impossible because niece and nephew were getting everything.

Fast forward to now that niece has her own family and the same thing is happening again.  Just mountains of gifts for her 4 kids.   Only this time, we don't participate in the gift swapping anymore, because we don't have the budget for that kind of insanity, which, I suspect, is a reason we have been eliminated from Christmas gatherings in recent years.   Not surprised, though, I thought it was bound to happen sometime.

[Linea_Norway]

My BIL and his GF also have a son. But they are frugal parents. They buy almost everything they own second hand. And they ask for a present that the child really likes to play with. The don't own much stuff at all and don't have a TV either. I always ask them what they want me to give as a present, so they won't be bothered by stuff they don't need.

[paddedhat]

We certainly have no shortage of deer now. I regularly see herds of them in my backyard, ten miles from downtown Philadelphia.

Yeah, in Wisconsin where I grew up deer actually became a pest.  They cull a LOT of the herd every year.

I once read an article about how, by the turn of the twentieth century, in PA. spotting a deer was enough to generate an article in the local newspaper. The population was down to a few thousand. Prior to a major change in management practice, about 15 years back, the population was heading for two million.

[mustachepungoeshere]

This is only tenuously related to money, but I need to vent about something that should just not be an issue. My husband's family and keys.

I grew up on farm with several buildings (house, sheds), lots of vehicles (parents' cars, my car, paddock basher, quad bikes, tractors, mowers), plus other keys (gates, toolboxes, etc). We each carried our own keys, and all other keys had their own labelled plastic key ring and hung on a key rack in the pantry.

Keys were not a source of stress. They were used and put back where they belong.

My husband's parents and his brother are the black hole of keys.

- They bought a newer house with locks on all the windows. The previous owner left the keys in their respective windows for the sale of the house. In-laws moved in, dumped all keys in one ziplock bag without labelling them, then complained when they had to sort out keys to sell the house.
- FiL borrowed husband's motorbike and lost the key that lives with the bike. Husband had a key on his key ring but he was 4000km away at the time.
- FiL moved BiL's car and managed to lose the key between the front door of the house and the dining table. Five us were going through every inch of the place, turning up all sort of keys but none for the car.
- In-laws travelled overseas and forgot to take keys to get into their own house on their return. Blamed BiL for not being there to let them in.
- FiL lost the key to his own motorbike just before an overnight ride. He couldn't get a new key in time so he basically had to hot wire his own bike after every stop.
- MiL invited her sister to stay and said she could pick up keys from us, but we were away that weekend, so MiL came up with this grand plan for me to leave keys with my doctor or hairdresser.
- BiL lost the only spare set of keys we have to our apartment. He says he gave them to MiL (why he would do that, I have no idea). She says she doesn't have them.

Admittedly FiL is usually to blame because he is just so scatterbrained but the rest of them are in denial.

And on top of the frustration of this happening over and over, they have spent a small fortune getting keys cut and reprogrammed over the years.

So, I'm done. They have lost all key privileges.

[josh4trunks]

This is only tenuously related to money, but I need to vent about something that should just not be an issue. My husband's family and keys.

I grew up on farm with several buildings (house, sheds), lots of vehicles (parents' cars, my car, paddock basher, quad bikes, tractors, mowers), plus other keys (gates, toolboxes, etc). We each carried our own keys, and all other keys had their own labelled plastic key ring and hung on a key rack in the pantry.

Keys were not a source of stress. They were used and put back where they belong.

My husband's parents and his brother are the black hole of keys.

- They bought a newer house with locks on all the windows. The previous owner left the keys in their respective windows for the sale of the house. In-laws moved in, dumped all keys in one ziplock bag without labelling them, then complained when they had to sort out keys to sell the house.
- FiL borrowed husband's motorbike and lost the key that lives with the bike. Husband had a key on his key ring but he was 4000km away at the time.
- FiL moved BiL's car and managed to lose the key between the front door of the house and the dining table. Five us were going through every inch of the place, turning up all sort of keys but none for the car.
- In-laws travelled overseas and forgot to take keys to get into their own house on their return. Blamed BiL for not being there to let them in.
- FiL lost the key to his own motorbike just before an overnight ride. He couldn't get a new key in time so he basically had to hot wire his own bike after every stop.
- MiL invited her sister to stay and said she could pick up keys from us, but we were away that weekend, so MiL came up with this grand plan for me to leave keys with my doctor or hairdresser.
- BiL lost the only spare set of keys we have to our apartment. He says he gave them to MiL (why he would do that, I have no idea). She says she doesn't have them.

Admittedly FiL is usually to blame because he is just so scatterbrained but the rest of them are in denial.

And on top of the frustration of this happening over and over, they have spent a small fortune getting keys cut and reprogrammed over the years.

So, I'm done. They have lost all key privileges.

When I bought my house, and filled it with 4 college students. One of the first things I got was a code deadbolt lock for the front door, about $90 on sale on Amazon, but I think they are cheaper now.
I let everyone give me their own code, which I deleted a year later when they all had to move out (I got married).

[Step37]

This is only tenuously related to money, but I need to vent about something that should just not be an issue. My husband's family and keys.

I grew up on farm with several buildings (house, sheds), lots of vehicles (parents' cars, my car, paddock basher, quad bikes, tractors, mowers), plus other keys (gates, toolboxes, etc). We each carried our own keys, and all other keys had their own labelled plastic key ring and hung on a key rack in the pantry.

Keys were not a source of stress. They were used and put back where they belong.

My husband's parents and his brother are the black hole of keys.

- They bought a newer house with locks on all the windows. The previous owner left the keys in their respective windows for the sale of the house. In-laws moved in, dumped all keys in one ziplock bag without labelling them, then complained when they had to sort out keys to sell the house.
- FiL borrowed husband's motorbike and lost the key that lives with the bike. Husband had a key on his key ring but he was 4000km away at the time.
- FiL moved BiL's car and managed to lose the key between the front door of the house and the dining table. Five us were going through every inch of the place, turning up all sort of keys but none for the car.
- In-laws travelled overseas and forgot to take keys to get into their own house on their return. Blamed BiL for not being there to let them in.
- FiL lost the key to his own motorbike just before an overnight ride. He couldn't get a new key in time so he basically had to hot wire his own bike after every stop.
- MiL invited her sister to stay and said she could pick up keys from us, but we were away that weekend, so MiL came up with this grand plan for me to leave keys with my doctor or hairdresser.
- BiL lost the only spare set of keys we have to our apartment. He says he gave them to MiL (why he would do that, I have no idea). She says she doesn't have them.

Admittedly FiL is usually to blame because he is just so scatterbrained but the rest of them are in denial.

And on top of the frustration of this happening over and over, they have spent a small fortune getting keys cut and reprogrammed over the years.

So, I'm done. They have lost all key privileges.

No shit they’ve lost key privileges! That’d make me lose my mind. I cannot wrap my head around people who are so scattered that they constantly lose keys. One of my good friends is like this. Apparently nearly every time she leaves the house, it’s a hunt for the car keys! I have a key cubby inside my door; the keys go there when I get home. If I go out, they attach to a clip in my purse. Okay, it’s not like I’ve NEVER had to hunt for them, but I can count the number of times on one hand!

The suggestion of coded door locks for them is a really good one. At least it would solve the house problems. They’re probably too old and set in their ways to get their shit together about the other keys, so lather, rinse, repeat I suppose. As long as it’s not your keys getting lost.

[mustachepungoeshere]

This is only tenuously related to money, but I need to vent about something that should just not be an issue. My husband's family and keys.

I grew up on farm with several buildings (house, sheds), lots of vehicles (parents' cars, my car, paddock basher, quad bikes, tractors, mowers), plus other keys (gates, toolboxes, etc). We each carried our own keys, and all other keys had their own labelled plastic key ring and hung on a key rack in the pantry.

Keys were not a source of stress. They were used and put back where they belong.

My husband's parents and his brother are the black hole of keys.

- They bought a newer house with locks on all the windows. The previous owner left the keys in their respective windows for the sale of the house. In-laws moved in, dumped all keys in one ziplock bag without labelling them, then complained when they had to sort out keys to sell the house.
- FiL borrowed husband's motorbike and lost the key that lives with the bike. Husband had a key on his key ring but he was 4000km away at the time.
- FiL moved BiL's car and managed to lose the key between the front door of the house and the dining table. Five us were going through every inch of the place, turning up all sort of keys but none for the car.
- In-laws travelled overseas and forgot to take keys to get into their own house on their return. Blamed BiL for not being there to let them in.
- FiL lost the key to his own motorbike just before an overnight ride. He couldn't get a new key in time so he basically had to hot wire his own bike after every stop.
- MiL invited her sister to stay and said she could pick up keys from us, but we were away that weekend, so MiL came up with this grand plan for me to leave keys with my doctor or hairdresser.
- BiL lost the only spare set of keys we have to our apartment. He says he gave them to MiL (why he would do that, I have no idea). She says she doesn't have them.

Admittedly FiL is usually to blame because he is just so scatterbrained but the rest of them are in denial.

And on top of the frustration of this happening over and over, they have spent a small fortune getting keys cut and reprogrammed over the years.

So, I'm done. They have lost all key privileges.

No shit they’ve lost key privileges! That’d make me lose my mind. I cannot wrap my head around people who are so scattered that they constantly lose keys. One of my good friends is like this. Apparently nearly every time she leaves the house, it’s a hunt for the car keys! I have a key cubby inside my door; the keys go there when I get home. If I go out, they attach to a clip in my purse. Okay, it’s not like I’ve NEVER had to hunt for them, but I can count the number of times on one hand!

The suggestion of coded door locks for them is a really good one. At least it would solve the house problems. They’re probably too old and set in their ways to get their shit together about the other keys, so lather, rinse, repeat I suppose. As long as it’s not your keys getting lost.

They're in their 50s. Not too old, but definitely set in their ways.

To them it's normal.

FiL went through nine phones in five years through various misadventures. He left his wallet on a bench in Hawaii, lost a pannier on a motorbike trip because he forgot to attach it properly, and most recently found a phone near a hotel, went to hand it in at reception, and tried to give them his own phone instead. He is on daily medication and regularly goes away without it. And he once took sleeping tablets instead of NoDoz before a long drive.

Swear to god, it's amazing he's lived this long.

[Astatine]

I went to a kid's 4th birthday party a couple of weeks ago and I'm not joking that he got at least 50 presents. His grandparents spoil him to death (and it's become kind of a competition between the grandparents) the parents want to give something special too, they invited all the kids from his class and all the parents' friends to his birthday. The poor kid was visibly super bored going through this mountain of gifts, he didn't even look at what he unwrapped anymore, he didn't care. Then people got angry at him because he didn't appear thankful enough. And three months later in December he will probably get even more gifts - last year he spent 4 hours straight unwrapping presents and then he fell asleep and they weren't even done yet.

It's awful to see how many of these gifts are disposable - the kind of things you use twice and then throw away. I try to give him Lego because that's a toy that lasts  / can be sold secondhand , or colouring books or pencils because they can be used up. They live in an apartment and it looks like a toy shop. I know it's easy to say when you don't have kids yet, but every time we go to a kids party, my fiance and I tell each other we won't let that happen if we ever have a family.

DH and I are childfree (and will remain that way) but most of our friends have small children. We see the same shit-ton of presents that each child gets and it's kind of sickening.

We've now made it a rule that our gifts for kids under the age of two is an item of clothing (usually practical) cos the kid doesn't care at that age. And for 3 years and up, we just give a book. Books are good things for kids to be exposed to, they don't take up muchspace and if we've misjudged on the book (eg a duplicate or the kid doesn't like it), the parents can regift or easily donate it to charity or whatever.

[shelivesthedream]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

[mustachepungoeshere]

When our child is born I would like to instigate a "books only" present policy. If anyone ever wants to give our child a present, they can give either a book or money. That way my husband and I can choose which toys we would like to have in our house and think are appropriate for our child. However, I don't know how to do this without being either presumptuous or bitchy.

I read a blog once (possibly on www.theminimalistmom.com) where they had a birthday party for their young child and requested either no gifts, a second-hand book or a gold coin. Loved that idea.