Relatives who just don't get it

[Gondolin]

the government only lets you buy a house that's less expensive than the one you currently own one time in your life before they penalize you."

Whaaaaat? Racking my brains to think of a way this would be true. Can't think of one. Even if there was a tax penalty, the gains on selling are tax free / taxed at the capital gains rate!

[paddedhat]

the government only lets you buy a house that's less expensive than the one you currently own one time in your life before they penalize you."

Whaaaaat? Racking my brains to think of a way this would be true. Can't think of one. Even if there was a tax penalty, the gains on selling are tax free / taxed at the capital gains rate!

Yea, I could see how such twisted logic could  exist.  When the capital gains rules for primary residences changed,  it seemed like it took decades for the majority of the public to "get it". The question still appears occasionally in financial advice columns, where poster make it clear that they still don't have a clue, or are citing decades old, and incorrect, tax rules as facts.

[SwordGuy]

If the problem really is because they see you are moving backwards and they also don't have bragging rights, explain what you are doing.

Here's a great blog that shows someone who has already done this.

http://rootofgood.com/about/


Give them a printed copy and tell them to read it before they bring up the subject again.   Then add that they will be able to brag about how you and your wife were able to make enough money to retire so very young and life the life you want.

[doublethinkmoney]

That commute sounds amazing! With a kid on the way, anything that makes your life less work and easier will totally be worth it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AlanStache]

My employer decided to give all full time employees a 50k life insurance policy; my primary beneficiary was obvious.  Then for the back up I asked my two cousins if they wanted to be listed - 'if you want to be the back up send me your dob/ssn/address'.  First cousin J. sends me the info in like 5 hours and says thanks.  Second one R. says they will get me the info.  Few days go by - nothing, I remind R. I need the info by monday.  No word at all from R. but is on FB so I know they read the message.  R. has a history of not replying to people or getting back to them - I did not want to cause drama but I did not want to reward R's behavior or pester someone about giving them money so I turned in the form monday afternoon with only J. listed.  R and J siblings so I really hope this does not cause problems.  I emailed there mother and told her what happened just so she was in the loop; J and R are both adults and this situation will not be surprising to the mother. 

Data privacy was definitely not a concern with R. and we have always been on good terms.  I very much understand that not everyone wants all gifts that are offered (boy do I know this from the receiver side!!!) but like most people could get around to sending a FB message for a modest shot at 25k.  R. is ~30 and makes modest money now and will become a SAHP soon, so like yeah 25k would be noticeable. 

[Mezzie]

The same has happened to me. Two of my siblings are beneficiaries on everything because they gave me their info; others, including nieces, cousins, and another sibling never got back to me. I may send out a reminder before our next family get-together for people to bring that info, and I can bring my computer and just do it all right there so they don't have to worry about anything.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

My wife's oldest brother thought we were ridiculous when we downsized from our too-big split-level (sold for $315k) and bought a half-double in a good school district for $175k. What's the point of being rich if you live in a twin? - that's what he said.

You know what's funny, though? Of the four houses owned by my wife and her family nearby, ours, the smallest and oldest, is the best for family get-togethers, which are now approaching 20 people. The whole first floor is one big 15x45 space, so nobody who's cooking is left out, and the finished attic is a playroom, so I take the kids upstairs and the siblings can chat. Everybody else's houses are too split up and too jam-packed with crap to be comfortable.

[marielle]

If the problem really is because they see you are moving backwards and they also don't have bragging rights, explain what you are doing.

Here's a great blog that shows someone who has already done this.

http://rootofgood.com/about/


Give them a printed copy and tell them to read it before they bring up the subject again.   Then add that they will be able to brag about how you and your wife were able to make enough money to retire so very young and life the life you want.

I think we've briefly explained our goals, but eventually stopped talking about it because they think it's crazy to live with "only" $50k a year. Really, our spending isn't even that high, we were just trying to make it sound less extreme. His mom said she would be "comfortable" on $90k a year on retirement, and I'm assuming that's after a paid off house because they're going to have three properties in retirement. I have a feeling they will spend more than that during retirement considering property tax and everything, but I could be wrong. I'm not sure exactly how much they make now, but they're easily upper middle class. They are very in denial about how rich they are, having complained about Obamacare for example and how they shouldn't be paying so much, the 1% should be footing the bill for the rest. They made a comment last week about how they're "not made of money" so they didn't hire movers to move them to their new beach house (I have a feeling this was a guilt trip because my boyfriend helped me move and not them in the same weekend). I'm pretty sure they are literally the definition of made of money by most people's standards.

[Pigeon]

I just need to vent...

My father passed away last year and my mother has been dealing with the financial aftermath of the whole ordeal. One of those is a rental property they own, which they shouldn't had even bought to begin with, and one which was actually costing them money. The house is vacant now and we are working towards selling it.

On Sunday, while we are all visiting my mother, my younger brother (I have 4 bros) tells us that the semiannual taxes are due on the home and for everyone to split it evenly at a cost of $82 each.

I said, "Sure, I'll PayPal you," and so did my other two brothers.  My 38yo older brother instead responded, "I can only give you $50 since his wife is about to have the baby and I'm taking ten days off work without pay."

This was after showing us pics of the $125 wheels which he drove 3hrs. roundtrip to get off Craigslist for his project car the day before.

Fuck. Fuck. Fuckity​fuck.....  Like seriously????

I understand that you were not aware that an $82 "bill" was going to pop up out of nowhere, but how are you buying wheels for a project car if you know you're going to be without two weeks pay very soon, and apparently you don't have any money saved, because of you did, the extra $32 wouldn't be an issue?

I don't know what to say... I'm just so frustrated with him and his mentality. He's a great dad and a good brother but his financial stupidity makes me want to choke him.

It would depend on who actually owns the house to me.  If your father left it to your mother, I can understand your brother not being thrilled to be handed part of her property tax bill with no discussion about it.  If your father left the house equally to the brothers, that's different.

[kelvin]

"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

You've done the math and the rare occurrence of a guest staying over doesn't justify the additional cost (rent/mortgage/utilities/cleaning) of another room. You'd probably come out ahead if you paid for a hotel each and every time someone wanted to come visit you.

Or there's always the blanket statement I like to use - "I'd rather work less than spend more."

I agree with you, cheapass, but my parents honestly believe that I should keep a guest room specifically so they can visit. They also keep guest rooms specifically so my brother and I can visit. Their parents keep guest rooms specifically so family can visit. Then they complain that we don't visit often enough. I complain that I'm working two jobs, they're retired, they should visit me instead... but I don't keep a guest room.  It's this weird, vicious cycle.

The real reason I don't keep a guest room is because I live with a much lower standard of living than any of my relatives, and got tired of hearing about it every time one of them stayed over. I'm happy, but my guests are uncomfortable. I'm considering an RV or something - I live in the city, but my family hate the city. An RV or cottage they can stay in just outside of town would be a great compromise.

I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

[ysette9]

Several years ago we offered to open 529s for our two nephews. The parents of the oldest nephew said thanks and said that was a good idea. However they have never actually provided us his SSN that would allow us to open an account, despite us asking a couple of times. The second newphew's parents gave us this lame song and dance about not wanting assets to count against their kid's future ability to qualify for aid and preferred that we give them the money as cash. Like hell we are going to do that.

So, two offers of free money and two rejections. I just don't get it.

[mtn]

Several years ago we offered to open 529s for our two nephews. The parents of the oldest nephew said thanks and said that was a good idea. However they have never actually provided us his SSN that would allow us to open an account, despite us asking a couple of times. The second newphew's parents gave us this lame song and dance about not wanting assets to count against their kid's future ability to qualify for aid and preferred that we give them the money as cash. Like hell we are going to do that.

So, two offers of free money and two rejections. I just don't get it.

The 529 legitimately fucked me for financial aid. Now, I wasn't really screwed because my parents and I had saved, but I could have had free money, but the 529 worked against me. Because I was responsible, I didn't get financial aid. Wonderful.

(Financial aid meaning scholarships, not loans)

[ysette9]

Whether that would be true in their particular situation I cannot say. I can say that we don't really trust their money management skills, so we are not willing to give them cash to keep under a mattress until the kid is old enough for college.

I would have thought that some money in a 529 would be better than nothing, but perhaps not. To each their own.

[Paul der Krake]

Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

[mtn]

Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.

[Cassie]

Kelvin, your parents need to get their own life, friends, etc. At 63 I enjoy my adult kids but my life revolves around our friends, activities, etc. When we visit my son that lives out of town we sleep in his bed and he sleeps on a blow up air mattress in the DR. The house he rents is old and rundown but clean, etc and i could care less. I am there to see him. My sons that live in town I have over to dinner every week or 2 and they invite us over too. I do more of the cooking because I only work p.t. and they both work f.t. 

[shelivesthedream]

I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My mother visits her mother twice a year for three days at a time. She wants me to visit her every month. I've now moved to the same city and she's all up in my business. We have had a tense relationship in the past and it's slowly getting better now I've set some very firm boundaries, but if she wants me to have a better relationship with her than she has with her mother, she's going to need to give me a reason. My grandmother is a lovely person - I'm sure the two of them have some historic beef just the same way I have with my mother, but do unto others, right?

[dandarc]

Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.

The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

[mtn]

Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.

The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

Ok, no, it is not stuck--but I do have to pay an additional 10% tax on any earnings--and thats after the normal gains taxes.

Also, I'm graduated with no student loan debt and don't plan right now on going back to school. So it is effectively stuck unless I want to take the additoinal 10% hit.

[paddedhat]

Regarding the name calling (Lazy) and obnoxious response by the in-laws. I put up with a similar response when we switched homes, to better accommodate our young kids and recently disabled wife. Simply put, the new home didn't suit my mom's concept of "moving up" and she decided the way to handle it was to be a snarky bitch. This was followed by two other uncalled for unpleasant comments in the following months. The DW and I handled it well. We  gave her the cold shoulder for a few months, until she decided she needed to "confront" us on why she was being treated so poorly. I then laid out that we were now on the Golden Rule program, and if she had anything nasty to say, she could either keep her pie hole shut, or expect to be shown the door. We treat others with dignity and respect and expect the same of her. If she chose to be nasty, she wasn't welcomed to be part of our lives. She was stunned by the fact that her own son called her out on her bullshit, but it completely stopped the problem. 

You're stuck with the inlaws, but IMHO, hell would freeze over before they called me lazy, and were not quickly educated on the fact that they have crossed the line, and will regret ever doing it again.

Good for you! 

It took several equally blunt discussions between my mom and I to get her behavior to be acceptable.  Never got past acceptable because she just couldn't let her preconceptions go.   And I mean to her dying day.  Literally.

Wow, I couldn't of written your reply to the letter.  It's weird, my step dad died in 2003, and I still miss him. Logic says that I should feel the same way about dear old mom,  but dealing with somebody who was a controlling pain in the ass, doesn't creating an everlasting longing, after they're gone. It's a strange cocktail of sadness, regret and relief.

[Cassie]

I think that sometimes parents forget that their kids have become adults and still treat them like kids. My Mom had a controlling MIL so she never told any of us what to do as adults unless we asked. i am following that rule too. I want my adult kids to want to be around me.  Some of these posts are really sad.

[AlanStache]

I think that sometimes parents forget that their kids have become adults and still treat them like kids. My Mom had a controlling MIL so she never told any of us what to do as adults unless we asked. i am following that rule too. I want my adult kids to want to be around me.  Some of these posts are really sad.

One of my aunts treats me like I am 15.  For this and a few other reasons I have largely cut off contact with her.  In many ways I am lucky she lives out of the country and there is no chance of regular contact.  I have nearly decided that she will never be welcome in my home as there is a better than 50% chance she will be highly disrespectful to me (honestly unintentionally on her part) and it would end what little tolerance I have for her.  You can only give allowance for someone else having good intentions for so long before you have to look at the pure content of there actions.

Between my aunt and an ex GF I have learned that someone can love you, legitimately want the best for you and even work towards what they think is good for you but still not be a positive influence in your life. 

[kelvin]

I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My parents don't visit their elders! Maybe twice a year. Sure "there's always a room open" for them, but they never use it. But for me it's expected that I visit regularly, and my parents count the weeks in between visits, like some sort of pining lover. It's ridiculous.

Cassie I am so jealous of your kids. Dad's gotten better since he remarried - I love my stepmom, she's great for him, and she has an entire herd of grandchildren to keep him busy. Even so, for the first 6 years of their marriage there was the constant refrain of "it's different when it's not your own grandkids" as if somehow being surrounded by people who loved him made him lonely. (Neither my brother nor I have children, or intend to soon.)

I guess I'm just frustrated that I'm somehow responsible for my parent's feelings, and we all know how well emotions + money go together.

[Proud Foot]

The 529 legitimately fucked me for financial aid. Now, I wasn't really screwed because my parents and I had saved, but I could have had free money, but the 529 worked against me. Because I was responsible, I didn't get financial aid. Wonderful.

(Financial aid meaning scholarships, not loans)

Only a tiny fraction of 529 monies is counted as assets. You would have been even more "fucked" if your parents had kept the cash in a brokerage account.

Yes, you're right. It just pissed me off that they count as assets in the first place--if they do, then boats, cars, designer clothing, nintendos, etc. should count as well. Not to mention the fact that since I worked so flipping hard, and so did my parents, I now have about $20,000 stuck in a 529 plan that I can't take out unless I go to grad school which I'm unsure I want to do. Oh well, it will be a good jump for my kids savings.

The money is not stuck.  You or your parents will just owe taxes on the earnings and possibly penalties if you withdraw it for non-school expenses.  I say possibly on the penalties because one of the exception to the "not-school-related" 10% additional tax is "kid got a scholarship".

Ok, no, it is not stuck--but I do have to pay an additional 10% tax on any earnings--and thats after the normal gains taxes.

Also, I'm graduated with no student loan debt and don't plan right now on going back to school. So it is effectively stuck unless I want to take the additoinal 10% hit.

This seems like it would fit in the "OP doesn't see it" thread. Yes the leftover money being "stuck" does suck but I don't really feel bad about the fact that you and your parents worked hard and planned ahead to have money set aside for your education. Especially as you still were able to graduate debt free. Sounds to me like that scholarship money was able to be given to someone who had financial need. And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

[cheapass]

And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing". I suppose one way around it is to liquidate your accounts and buy gold a couple years before your kids start filling out college forms?

[mtn]

And I don't see how cars, designer clothes, etc should count as assets because the 529 is.  The 529 is a tax advantaged savings plan with the specific purpose of paying for higher education.

He's saying he is penalized on the financial aid because his family did the right thing and saved money instead of blowing it on stupid shit. It is a good point, and one of the inherent problems with "means testing".

Yes, this.

[TaraB]

My quasi-adopted brother J has been "part of the family" for over 10 years. He's close with my mom and my brother (and was close with my deceased step-dad). We consider him and his wife A part of the family.

J did a stint in prison before we knew him, which affected his employability. At some point he went on disability, somewhat legitimately because of ongoing back surgeries (blah blah I don't know the details). He does dog training and odd jobs on the side. J and A got together in 2013 ish. Eventually he moved out of his parents' house (at age 40) and into her rented apartment. They bought a house together, got knocked up and married at the end of 2014. But since his income is limited/under the table, they bought the house on her salary alone. Modest 3 BR, nice yard for their 3 large dogs. Close to her work (10 minutes). As soon as A got pregnant they had to lease a top of the line minivan, in addition to their top of the line Ford Escape (which replaced a short-lived top-of-the-line Chevy Avalanche)......I can only imagine what their car payments must look like.

J has to have the newest iPhone the second it comes out. He has the Apple watch (not sure if he has upgraded). Baby 1 required a schmancy video system so they could live-stream him....sleeping in his crib? A reigns him in on a lot of things, she coupons and shops Aldi and has some good frugal bones. J's parents continue to subsidize his lifestyle (it's their 5th grandbaby, they only have 1 5th grandbaby). J also likes to go to Atlantic City and gamble.......

Fast forward to early 2017. A is knocked up again (on purpose). J gets in his head from his realtor best friend that they should buy a rental property with a down payment from J's parents. Somehow this morphs into J's parents buying a newer, bigger house for J and A and the babies and they'll rent out the modest appropriate 3 br house. In a town that has little industry and subsists on tourist income. But not in a tourist area. ("But J's parents helped buy J's older brother a house! They should also buy J a house!" meanwhile they're in their 70s and would rather be doing retiree things...)

New house is wayyyyyy bigger. (I saw it this weekend for baby 1's birthday). Also wayyyy further from A's work. Keep in mind, she is the salaried one with the health insurance. They just moved in last week, and A is due with baby 2 at the end of July. Obviously since the house is so much bigger, J's parents have to buy them more stuff!!! A fence for the pool! A dining room table! A fancy umbrella for their outdoor patio!

Nevermind that J bought his 2 year old a huge monstrosity Jeep toddler bed that the kid is too afraid to sleep in.

I walked around that house and I looked at one room and all I could think is "What is the purpose of this room?? that's the dining room over there, what is the functional purpose of this damn room?!?" (Baby playroom, natch).

New fancy house required J's parents to supply the down payment. They also must keep their old house rented out (and are probably barely breaking even). And her commute is too long to come home and see her baby/ies at lunch.

As I've watched this, I can't help but think that she's going to start hiding money from him so that she can divorce him and take the kids in a few years.

(Sidebar- when my stepdad died, J was the one who said he would come mow my mom's lawn at 2 in the morning if she needed it.....he is there for her even more than my own brother sometimes, but I'm thankful we're not ACTUALLY related because my family is much different with money).

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I'm also baffled because my parents were never on very close terms with their parents. They seem to expect to be an active part of the lives of their two kids (who live 8 hours away), but they are not active parts of the lives of their parents (who live 30 min away). I think they are still continually disappointed that their lives cannot revolve around my brother and I anymore. We're in our 30s; get over it.

Your parents demonstrated exactly how they thought children should treat their elders, not just once but for years or even decades. The only possible explanation is that they'd like to be on the receiving end themselves when it's their turn.

My parents don't visit their elders! Maybe twice a year.

Exactly my point. Your parents are trying the old do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do trick. You don't need to fall for it.

I do think you should point the discrepancy out to them. It will either (a) get them to back off, or (b) nudge them into a little more of the kind of filial behavior they're trying to demand from you, which will take up at least some of their time and attention so as to get the pressure off of you.

[Sydneystache]

@TaraB whatever did she see in him?

[TaraB]

@TaraB whatever did she see in him?

He can be really sweet, and he IS a good guy, he just spends wayyyyy beyond his means and always will. (There's also a biological clock factor- she's 36 ish about to pop out baby #2.)

[Guava]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

[AlanStache]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

[mustachepungoeshere]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

[Goldielocks]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

DH has moved his computer to our unheated basement shop.  He usually needs a small electric heater / fan unit, but with the computer in there (and after he had to add extra cooling to it for over heating), he quipped that all he needs to do is run a bit coin mining operation and he would have free heat for the winter...   

[AlanStache]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

DH has moved his computer to our unheated basement shop.  He usually needs a small electric heater / fan unit, but with the computer in there (and after he had to add extra cooling to it for over heating), he quipped that all he needs to do is run a bit coin mining operation and he would have free heat for the winter...

I was about to research and do some math to work out the ROI of bitcoin mining vs a grow house but I figured doing the latter (even on Freedom Day) might not be smart.

[Guava]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

They blame it solely on their 17 year old. Now that kid might be coin mining, but the parents definitely aren't. Also not a grow house, but that could solve their money problems.

Part of the problem is it's a log cabin with high ceilings and almost no insulation, but if they aren't running the air that doesn't matter. My guess is the 2 100 gallon saltwater fish tanks. And the son's gaming as a contributing factor.

[infogoon]

I heard a story long ago of a higher ed systems administrator who brought home a few decommissioned VAX minicomputers from work and started running a cluster in his garage to play around with; the hardware threw so much heat that the DEA showed up, thinking that the heat plumes from an outbuilding just had to be a grow op.

[MrMoogle]

Found out BIL's electric bill is $600 per month.  I can't even wrap my head around this. They aren't using the air this year because they can't afford it.  I have no idea how their bill is so high.

While getting insulation quotes recently the sales guy said he has seen bills like that in houses with half the ducting not connected.  Or you know bitcoin mining...

Grow house...

They blame it solely on their 17 year old. Now that kid might be coin mining, but the parents definitely aren't. Also not a grow house, but that could solve their money problems.

Part of the problem is it's a log cabin with high ceilings and almost no insulation, but if they aren't running the air that doesn't matter. My guess is the 2 100 gallon saltwater fish tanks. And the son's gaming as a contributing factor.

That must be some gaming rig.  To put things in perspective, I'm a gamer, but only have my computer on when I'm home, and I use AC, and my electric bill was $40 last month.  Although last month, I had the thermostat lower than I normally do, because I was sick and more sensitive to temperature.  Last year I was $30-35 during the summer.

[Rosbif]

snip

List of excuses to get the parents off my back:

snip

"You need to buy/rent a place with a guest room." "...I hate having houseguests?" I honestly don't have a good quip for this one yet.

"I murdered the last three guests and the clean-up just takes hours, I'd rather have my evenings free"

[mustachepungoeshere]

My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

[AlanStache]

My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

[Rowellen]

No. MIL is the stingy bastard here.

[ixtap]

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them? You make it sound like the incidents are pretty far apart, rather than them trying to get a few bucks every time you see them.

It depends on the rest of the relationship, as well. We covered something big for my ILs that DH never requested back. However, when we visit them, we get free room and board, and now that we fly in, even a car for just the price of gas.

[marty998]

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them? You make it sound like the incidents are pretty far apart, rather than them trying to get a few bucks every time you see them.

It depends on the rest of the relationship, as well. We covered something big for my ILs that DH never requested back. However, when we visit them, we get free room and board, and now that we fly in, even a car for just the price of gas.

Of the view that parents should not short change their kids in this manner... amongst other things, it sets a really poor. example.

Like...you wouldn't pay the duty free shop $170 after agreeing to $176...

[BDWW]

My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

It's always interesting reading about different family cultures. It obviously all varies on the family dynamic, but unless it was a recurring thing, we'd have just bought the item and told parents "Don't worry about it." ... and then half the time my mom would try and sneak the money into say the glovebox without me noticing.

[mustachepungoeshere]

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

A picture of the receipt?  I cant imagine having to show proof of price to my parent to get paid back for something.  If I go get supplies for parents store I will hand them the receipts for there books and they will typically round up the cost when paying me back for my troubles.

This is exactly what I just said to Marty in a text! If I do any shopping for my parents, my mum will always round up when she pays me back and say, "You do a lot for me and I'm sure I owe you money for something."

To clarify, they didn't ask for a copy of the receipt but he's had enough odd money dealings with his parents to reinforce the need for transparency.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

It is kind of annoying, but do you really want to be the ones to nickel and dime them?

No, which is why I'm not raising it with them.

Of the view that parents should not short change their kids in this manner... amongst other things, it sets a really poor example.

Thank you!

It's always interesting reading about different family cultures. It obviously all varies on the family dynamic, but unless it was a recurring thing, we'd have just bought the item and told parents "Don't worry about it." ... and then half the time my mom would try and sneak the money into say the glovebox without me noticing.

Husband travels 40+ times a year and they expect souvenirs or ask for expensive perfume or aftershave from duty-free. It would cost us thousands of dollars each year if we just paid for it ourselves.

[Frankies Girl]

My husband is travelling this week and his parents asked him to buy them a certain item duty free and they would pay him back.

He bought the item, took a photo of the receipt and emailed it to them.

MiL texted me yesterday to say thank you and that she had transferred money into our account.

The item was $176.35.

She transferred $170.

It's not enough to actually raise it with them, but fuck it bugs me.

I haven't spoken to my husband about it but I know he'll say, "Eh, it's only $6.35."

If it's only $6.35, then they should pay it.

I'd be more forgiving if this was a first offence.

MiL once had us pick up a small piece of furniture she bought on eBay. We had to drive to the other side of our city to get it.

It was $28. She paid us $28. Didn't even round it up to $30 for fuel and our time.

Am I being overly sensitive and stingy here?

What's to stop you from texting MIL back:

Hey, MIL! I saw the transfer for the item hit our account, and wanted to let you know it looks like the bank transfer made a mistake. I just noticed this, but the amount should be $176.35 and the transfer was only $176.00. Whenever you get a chance to get the balance of $6.35 to us is great and I'll let you know as soon as it goes through! Thanks! :)

I would debate the idea that it isn't enough to bring up with her if this is a repeating pattern. She then knows she can get away with this crap because she's trained y'all to just ignore it when she short changes you. What is needed is developing a polite spine: Call it out, infer it likely was a mistake made by some third party so she has some plausible deniability for being a stingy short-changing jerk, and keep it light and breezy. But the big thing: if you feel she is taking advantage of you, CALL HER OUT EVERY SINGLE TIME. Politely, nicely, but firmly. 

And the other thing is to seriously consider just not putting yourself in the position of buying things for her to be paid back. I would pose the idea that being up front about the reason - that she isn't good about paying you back the full amount or taking into account your extra expenses and you feel taken advantage of, so to keep from feeding any resentment on your part, better to just not do this sort of thing any more. Or if this is too forthright, tell her you won't have time, you forgot, whatever. This part really, REALLY should come from your husband (her child) because it's his mother that is taking advantage of you both.

I would also consider if you are getting other benefits or otherwise have a great relationship with her, maybe this is that one stupid annoying thing that you are completely, 100% justified in being cheesed off about, but chalk it up to her being a dummy and let it slide if you otherwise are close and loving. Like with the furniture situation... it technically is on you if you don't ask for gas money, then she may just not have thought of it. But you also could reframe the errand as a labor of love - because you care about her, you're doing her a kindness.

But from the latest explanations you just posted, your husband really needs to stop buying things for his parents at all with the expectations that they might pay you back 95% of the amount. The reasons behind the need for receipts and allowing them to place undue obligations... sounds like he's twisted up in the idea of family and duty and letting them take advantage just due to blood ties. That's screwy and he might want to do some thinking on how to set appropriate boundaries and developing the ability to call his parents when they do take undue advantage.

[Cassie]

If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

[mustachepungoeshere]

If I picked up something for my parents or in-laws I would not expect them to pay for time and or gas. That is just being cheap. I do think it is weird not to pay you the whole amount however but definitely not worth mentioning.

Again, part of a pattern.

They buy things on eBay in our city and ask us to pick them up to save them freight or postage.

This has included car parts that involved a 140km round-trip.

If I asked someone to do that for me, I wouldn't dream of not offering them fuel money.