Relatives who just don't get it

[Just Joe]

I don't mind Goldielocks.  I still can't believe that pair still expects my mom to pay the bills for them.  Turns out the water was cut off at the house and they wanted my mom to to pay it to get it turned back on.  My aunt has allegedly applied for Social Security but since she lies I will believe when I see a statement with her name on it.

How do you live there without water and flush? Shouldn't that be motivation enough to pay your own water bill regularly?

[Cookie78]

I don't mind Goldielocks.  I still can't believe that pair still expects my mom to pay the bills for them.  Turns out the water was cut off at the house and they wanted my mom to to pay it to get it turned back on.  My aunt has allegedly applied for Social Security but since she lies I will believe when I see a statement with her name on it.

How do you live there without water and flush? Shouldn't that be motivation enough to pay your own water bill regularly?

Not really if you expect mom will pay for it!

[Gone_Hiking]

My MIL wants a vacation.

As in, my DH and I will organize it, finance it, and she will come along.  Afterwards, she will criticize the choice of vacation rental.

MIL is retired and widowed now, living on the Atlantic coast and, thanks to a track record of bad planning and bad luck going all the way to 1970s, still paying mortgage on her house, bought 50 years ago.  She can't afford to live alone - her sister, who thankfully has sizable retirement investments, moved in a few years ago, after her own husband died.  We also send her a few hundred dollars every month and buy two round-trip tickets for her to visit us every year.

Now she wants to go to Grand Canyon.  And walk on that glass bridge over the canyon.  The thing is, I went through a layoff a few months ago, found a new job quickly, but with a sizable pay cut - and now, a vacation with MIL is simply not in the budget.  MIL doesn't seem to get it - why would anyone want to be able to retire before 60?  What will you do, she asks.

Tell her you'll take her to the Grand Canyon when you retire--if it is in the budget.

Ha, I love it!

You've done it!  Now I'm getting ideas.

[onehair]

I forgot to ask my mom whose name is the house considered in since Grandma didn't leave a will.  She was PR for the estate but I am not sure under District of Columbia law who is liable for it.  I suggested she check because the house could be considered uninhabitable with no water and she still might be on the hook for the bill.  I hope not because if they're forced to leave they might try to stay with her.

[Shalamar]

We used to get the same thing about using the in-laws cabin.   It wasn't in an area we would normally take short vacations in, and after trying it once, I realized that one full day of house work + cooking and dishes for my family all weekend + half day travel each way did not make for a nice 4 day weekend.  at all.

I could have written this entire post.   My in laws own a cabin that's a four-hour drive from our house.  It has indoor plumbing now, but back when my husband and I were first married, it didn't.   The nearest bathroom was about a five-minute walk away, which wasn't fun in the middle of the night.    The area the cabin is in is beautiful, but when it rains, there's almost literally nothing to do.   I finally put my foot down after a few years of that and refused to go anymore.

[SwordGuy]

I forgot to ask my mom whose name is the house considered in since Grandma didn't leave a will.  She was PR for the estate but I am not sure under District of Columbia law who is liable for it.  I suggested she check because the house could be considered uninhabitable with no water and she still might be on the hook for the bill.  I hope not because if they're forced to leave they might try to stay with her.

I'll grant there's no end of stupid laws in this country, but if the house is FULLY CAPABLE of providing water, and it doesn't have water service simply because the tenant does not pay their water bill, I would be very surprised that the landlord would be in trouble over that.

[I'm a red panda]

 For some reason we are having to entertain all the people who are coming to see our baby. This involves my husband cooking elaborate meals, what he normally does anyway, but now for more people, every night. Our grocery bill will be huge.

My dad also had his birthday while he was here so we had to take him out to dinner. In the name of fairness, which I don't really understand because it wasn't their birthday, we took my husband's get made out to dinner as well. (Up, we just had a baby- why are we hosting other people's vacations?)

 We decided to go to HuHot which is a Mongolian BBQ buffet sorta place. They have appetizers there but I've never seen anyone order them because you're at an all-you-can-eat restaurant why would you also order an appetizer. Well I found out the kind of person who orders one- my mother-in-law wanted crab rangoons. she decided this after I had already told the waitress we didn't need any appetizers (because I guess we're at an all-you-can-eat buffet) so called her back to order them.

 Well not only that she order the crab rangoons, she orders the seven piece crab rangoons (and only ate 2!) which cost the same amount as a buffet lunch. My husband was running late to meet us for lunch since he came from work ( because lunch is cheaper than dinner, so we went then) When he got there and he looks at me and says we ordered an appetizer? But this is a buffet? His mom looks at him and says we're not really eating them as an appetizer though, we're eating them with the buffet. She clearly missed the point of why we questioned it entirely. DH even said the appetizers are a trick to make you take less from the buffet. She just said again "but I had them with my meal, not as an appetizer"

Yes this is why y'all are not very good with money: it doesn't matter when you're eating them the point is that they cost the same amount as the meal. Obviously we didn't say anything else after that of course, they also ordered sodas (which is fine, I won't nickel and dime that). We are very different people.

One more rant: not only will she not drink our softened and purified water and I had to buy bottled water for her (individual bottles, not gallons!) She was using bottled water to boil for tea! Our water is not bad, but boiling bottled water is ridiculous.

[mtn]

For some reason we are having to entertain all the people who are coming to see our baby. This involves my husband cooking elaborate meals, what he normally does anyway, but now for more people, every night. Our grocery bill will be huge.

My dad also had his birthday while he was here so we had to take him out to dinner. In the name of fairness, which I don't really understand because it wasn't their birthday, we took my husband's get made out to dinner as well. (Up, we just had a baby- why are we hosting other people's vacations?)

 We decided to go to HuHot which is a Mongolian BBQ buffet sorta place. They have appetizers there but I've never seen anyone order them because you're at an all-you-can-eat restaurant why would you also order an appetizer. Well I found out the kind of person who orders one- my mother-in-law wanted crab rangoons. she decided this after I had already told the waitress we didn't need any appetizers (because I guess we're at an all-you-can-eat buffet) so called her back to order them.

 Well not only that she order the crab rangoons, she orders the seven piece crab rangoons (and only ate 2!) which cost the same amount as a buffet lunch. My husband was running late to meet us for lunch since he came from work ( because lunch is cheaper than dinner, so we went then) When he got there and he looks at me and says we ordered an appetizer? But this is a buffet? His mom looks at him and says we're not really eating them as an appetizer though, we're eating them with the buffet. She clearly missed the point of why we questioned it entirely. DH even said the appetizers are a trick to make you take less from the buffet. She just said again "but I had them with my meal, not as an appetizer"

Yes this is why y'all are not very good with money: it doesn't matter when you're eating them the point is that they cost the same amount as the meal. Obviously we didn't say anything else after that of course, they also ordered sodas (which is fine, I won't nickel and dime that). We are very different people.

One more rant: not only will she not drink our softened and purified water and I had to buy bottled water for her (individual bottles, not gallons!) She was using bottled water to boil for tea! Our water is not bad, but boiling bottled water is ridiculous.

Why would you guys go to the lengths you're going to? I can't imagine buying bottled water for guests because they don't like the water if I find it drinkable; we do it only because we don't have enough cups for people. I can understand gallons with super sulfury water, but bottled?

To make you laugh on the tea thing though, my little brother will make coffee with bottled (gallon) water, but drinks well water. But then he is a coffee snob who manages a coffee shop.

[Reynold]

This is everything I hate about gift giving.

I thought I had finally convinced the spouse's family to go with consumables if they feel like they have to give something (chocolate, wine, etc. - can always use that!) but alas, it didn't stick.

My DW is normally pretty frugal, and very on board with saving, but does have a tendency to want to get nice, thoughtful, appropriate, fair (everyone's must be similar value!) gifts for everyone.  With a sister, father and mother that was; birthday, birthday, birthday, Christmas, Christmas, Christmas, Father's day, Mother's day, Anniversary, so 9 gifts/year, not counting multiples for Christmas.  Of course she would expect me to have ideas for each of these, but after a few years it starts getting pretty hard to think of something new and thoughtful for someone in their 80s who has had a lifetime to accumulate what they want.  The sister lived a fairly minimalist lifestyle stuff-wise, except for a few pricy toys and trips, and had rather specific tastes, so also hard to shop for. 

On the bright side, I did convince DW to stop exchanging gifts with friends for birthdays and Christmas, because she would have to harass them to get lists of what they would like, and then she got stuff from them we didn't want, because they ignored our lists.  She did reserve the right to buy "random" gifts for them if she saw something they would really like, though. . . :)

[DTaggart]

I've mentioned my FIL in various threads before, but in summary he is an 83 year old debt addict who has managed to get himself financially cut-off from all family members throughout his lifetime. Last year he asked hubby and I to loan him $5k to help him pay down his high interest credit cards and P2P debt consolidation loans. We said no to that but attempted to help him cut back on some of his expenses (including TWO very expensive life insurance policies with a combined payout of only a couple thousand dollars). When he refused to make enough cutbacks to be able to afford his debt payments and living expenses on his $32k/year fixed income (which is coincidentally about what hubby and I spend each year), he then asked us to take out a home equity loan for $15k and give him the money, and he'd pay us back at $200/month. He was gravely offended when we said no because he thought we didn't trust him to pay us back. Dude, you're 83... even if you had impeccable financial management skills, the odds of you living long enough to pay us back are SLIM. Bankruptcy was not an option because not enough time had elapsed since his last bankruptcy.

Once we and his daughter both decided there would be no more financial handouts, he miraculously solved his own problem and found a debt relief agency that would work with the P2P lending places (he had previously said he couldn't find anyone that would do that), and also finally decided to start selling off some of the many antiques he has hoarded over his lifetime through an auction agency (previously he refused to sell anything at less than "book" value). So over the past few months he's been able to get caught up on bills and have a little extra money.

But he managed to get suckered in by some fraudsters who were debiting money from his account for a couple of months before he got it straightened out and got a new bank account (basically he signed up for a "free sample" and they enrolled him in some subscription service and charging his account every month). During that time his account had been overdrawn and he was freaking out over not having any money. Once that had been resolved he said to my husband that he now understood why he should have a separate savings account at a different bank and would get that set up once he got his tax refund and sold some more auction stuff.

So we just got back from a long weekend visit (thank you Chase Sapphire Reserve bonus). He was very excited to show us the new flat screen TV he'd bought with his tax refund so he could move the old flat screen TV into the bedroom to replace the old crappy TV in there. We also learned both his microwave and his oven are broken, so he complains about having to use his toaster oven which takes 45 minutes to heat up his frozen dinners. There don't seem to be any plans for fixing those. And of course there's no savings account yet.

Hubby found out from his sister that FIL was rather miffed that we chose to stay at a hotel this visit rather than stay with him. When we planned the trip in January, FIL was making all kinds of comments about how he wasn't sure how much longer he'd be able to stay in his condo because of his financial issues, and we were sending him grocery store gift cards to make sure he was eating. Somehow, imposing on him to put us up didn't seem appropriate, so that's why we chose a hotel. We didn't want him to feel bad, so we told him it was paid for with points/part of a package deal/basically free, but he apparently preferred to be offended.

Frankly, it's a good thing we did get the hotel because now that he has so much extra money to piss away, FIL has decided he should re-take up smoking his pipe (he had quit years ago after his bypass surgery). And since old people are apparently incapable of opening a window, the entire house is a smoky, haze-filled allergy trigger. We were only over there for a couple of hours at a stretch and every time left with burning eyes and throats and major congestion. Sleeping there would have been impossible. Shockingly, FIL has developed a rather nasty cough and chronic sniffles. He kept complaining about his allergies. Um, dude, maybe you're allergic to smoke??

[I'm a red panda]

Mtn I think we're doing this because we are freaking pushovers. I also think there's some level of my husband wanting it to be quote Fair between my parents and his parents.

The difference is that my parents are basically bogleheads and his are broke. My parents drove up so they went grocery shopping and stocked our pantry for us. they also went to Costco and refilled my husband's wine cabinet for him (though a good portion of that disappeared during the visit). I know the reason my husband is cooking is because he doesn't like people in his kitchen and since my mother destroyed a cabinet by not realizing screws were scraping on the facing, I can understand him not wanting anyone in there.

But I figured there would be a bit more one meal and eating leftovers then there has been. Of course I put the leftovers in the freezer and will eat them later. Still it's almost been more stressful having people here to quote help, because we've been entertaining. I know I'm ranting on my visitors, but really that story was more about who the f orders as an appetizer at a buffet.

I don't think access to their grand daughter should be predicated on money, but I also know keeping my parents happy is an investment in her college fund. So it's important to play their game...they are really generous but need us to contribute in turn. It's not dime for dime, but if they stock the pantry, we make the meals. If they take us out to a steakhouse, we pay for a fast casual, etc.

So I think DH really feels like we should do similar things for his parents, except instead it was just entertaining house guests. Although this visit his Mom did vacuum once.

[tyrannostache]

Ugh, iowajes, I'm sorry you're dealing with guests who need to be entertained while you have a newborn. Our firm rule is that until we are ready (which is a bare minimum of 6 weeks, or until we say otherwise), the only guests are those whose presence is truly helpful. That means that high-maintenance houseguests like my father and FIL are not welcome to stay in our house. They could visit and stay in a hotel, but I'm certainly not hosting or entertaining them. As far as I'm concerned, in the first couple of months postpartum, there is no "fair" except for what helps parents and baby rest and recover.

[mtn]

For all my complaints about my parents, when we come to that stage (babies! Yay!) my mom can clean the kitchen faster than anyone I know, and dad, although he doesn't help with chores much, is very good at using his wallet to make problems go away. And won't let us pay for things. And neither of them complain about anything not being good enough for them (and they're Bogleheadish, so good things there)

My inlaws--well, my MIL is chronically ill and will not be any help for the baby, and will tell us we need to buy things... then likely buy them for the kid anyways. So that is good. And my FIL helps out a LOT--weather grocery shopping or taking the garbage out, whatever little things he can do.

I guess we're pretty lucky on that front. But my MIL would never be caught dead in a buffet.

[marielle]

Future parents in law judge me and the boyfriend for our lifestyle choices.

They often say nasty comments like, "You guys live like porpers." They judge me for living with a roommate because I'm "not in college anymore". They judge him for renting a room for $400 a month in a nice house (a much nicer place than he would ever be able to rent in the area) when he's only there half the week for work and at my place the rest of the time. They also judge us for still buying rice in bulk (25-50 lb bags) because apparently it's poor people food. I mean...we're vegan...and we like rice...what else are we supposed to eat? I live in the highest level of luxury I ever have and eat the best food I ever have considering I grew up in a single wide trailer eating frozen crap food, and some of the college apartments I lived in were really sketchy. I feel like I have the ultimate luxury, but they feel like we're sacrificing and depriving ourselves.

They made nasty comments about how he bought a "beater" which was a 2012 Scion xD bought for $7500 cash last year. It was less than half the worth of the 2014 Focus ST he sold but will probably last longer. The Focus was already having weird issues and recalls, and apparently is coming up with poor reliability ratings online. The Scion was in nearly new condition, almost perfect paint. Also, both of these cars were "too small and impractical", can't wait to see their reaction when my next car is a 2-seater.

I'm sure they judge me for driving a 2003 150k mile car, but I'll laugh them straight to the bank considering they still haven't retired in their mid 50s despite all the money they've been making. FMIL said she would be "comfortable" on 90k a year in retirement and that $50k a year is INSANE, though I'm sure they're aiming for more than $90k with all the ridiculous cars they drive (a Lexus SUV and a Yukon SUV right now despite only the father working the past 15+ years). They're going to have 3 different properties to live in during retirement, one of which is a beach house.

[I'm a red panda]

"is very good at using his wallet to make problems go away. "


My Mom has told me she would clean while she was here. She hired a cleaning crew to come twice.


I told my parents to wait two weeks, but they ignored me, coming the day before her birth (they respected the "stay the hell out of L&D"). Those first two weeks were so hard, and having people here made it harder. My in laws visit, at 3 weeks, was a much easier time, I was just standard annoyed at them, not a hormonal in pain mess.

[gaja]

Mtn I think we're doing this because we are freaking pushovers. I also think there's some level of my husband wanting it to be quote Fair between my parents and his parents.

The difference is that my parents are basically bogleheads and his are broke. My parents drove up so they went grocery shopping and stocked our pantry for us. they also went to Costco and refilled my husband's wine cabinet for him (though a good portion of that disappeared during the visit). I know the reason my husband is cooking is because he doesn't like people in his kitchen and since my mother destroyed a cabinet by not realizing screws were scraping on the facing, I can understand him not wanting anyone in there.

But I figured there would be a bit more one meal and eating leftovers then there has been. Of course I put the leftovers in the freezer and will eat them later. Still it's almost been more stressful having people here to quote help, because we've been entertaining. I know I'm ranting on my visitors, but really that story was more about who the f orders as an appetizer at a buffet.

I don't think access to their grand daughter should be predicated on money, but I also know keeping my parents happy is an investment in her college fund. So it's important to play their game...they are really generous but need us to contribute in turn. It's not dime for dime, but if they stock the pantry, we make the meals. If they take us out to a steakhouse, we pay for a fast casual, etc.

So I think DH really feels like we should do similar things for his parents, except instead it was just entertaining house guests. Although this visit his Mom did vacuum once.

Ugh, iowajes, I'm sorry you're dealing with guests who need to be entertained while you have a newborn. Our firm rule is that until we are ready (which is a bare minimum of 6 weeks, or until we say otherwise), the only guests are those whose presence is truly helpful. That means that high-maintenance houseguests like my father and FIL are not welcome to stay in our house. They could visit and stay in a hotel, but I'm certainly not hosting or entertaining them. As far as I'm concerned, in the first couple of months postpartum, there is no "fair" except for what helps parents and baby rest and recover.

Iowajes: please listen to tyrannostache! Babies are hard work the first weeks and months, and unless you really feel people are helping, they are stealing time and energy that you need to bond with and take care of your baby. You will have 30+ years to cater to the parents. Your DH needs to understand that the only persons he needs to treat fairly right now is you and your baby.

Most of our visitors behaved well when we had a newborn. The strangest experience we had was with MIL and SIL, who had brought lunch for themselves, went into the kitchen and got two plates, and then sat there and ate their lunch. After finishing their meal, they joined the kids, DH and me in the living room. The rest of the visit was ok, with gifts for the baby and little big sister, except that I was a bit dumbfounded after the strange start. DH claims they just didn't want to cause us any trouble, but I still think it was weird.

[RFAAOATB]

I live in the highest level of luxury I ever have and eat the best food I ever have considering I grew up in a single wide trailer eating frozen crap food, and some of the college apartments I lived in were really sketchy. I feel like I have the ultimate luxury, but they feel like we're sacrificing and depriving ourselves.

Are these upper middle class people?  Was his childhood home closer to ghetto or McMansion?  Think about it from their perspective.  Their son took up with a girl that grew up in a trailer?  Lets hope we can bring her up to some respectable standard of living.

[Cookie78]

I live in the highest level of luxury I ever have and eat the best food I ever have considering I grew up in a single wide trailer eating frozen crap food, and some of the college apartments I lived in were really sketchy. I feel like I have the ultimate luxury, but they feel like we're sacrificing and depriving ourselves.

Are these upper middle class people?  Was his childhood home closer to ghetto or McMansion?  Think about it from their perspective.  Their son took up with a girl that grew up in a trailer?  Lets hope we can bring her up to some respectable standard of living.

Yes, because continuous judging and nasty comments will 'bring her up to some respectable standard of living'. Disgusting behavior.

[marielle]

I live in the highest level of luxury I ever have and eat the best food I ever have considering I grew up in a single wide trailer eating frozen crap food, and some of the college apartments I lived in were really sketchy. I feel like I have the ultimate luxury, but they feel like we're sacrificing and depriving ourselves.

Are these upper middle class people?  Was his childhood home closer to ghetto or McMansion?  Think about it from their perspective.  Their son took up with a girl that grew up in a trailer?  Lets hope we can bring her up to some respectable standard of living.

Yes, because continuous judging and nasty comments will 'bring her up to some respectable standard of living'. Disgusting behavior.

They are upper middle class but consider themselves middle class (of course). I honestly don't even know if they knew how I grew up. I wasn't exactly poor when I was in middle/high school I just lived in a very rural area, we didn't go out to eat at fancy restaurants, and my mom never cooked. I still had a car and some help with living expenses in college so definitely not "poor". I think they assume we're sacrificing a lot because we don't have car loans, don't eat out everyday or go to bars, and don't pay a third of our income for housing so that we can live without roommates. You know, things that the typical mid 20s person does. Abnormal to them means something is wrong. My boyfriend was never very materialistic anyway (so I may have had some influence but not all), he hated that they lived in very large houses and did not want a brand new car at 16. He didn't ask for money in college (while his sister did constantly) so they think something is wrong with him/us.

[LeRainDrop]

For some reason we are having to entertain all the people who are coming to see our baby. This involves my husband cooking elaborate meals, what he normally does anyway, but now for more people, every night. Our grocery bill will be huge.

I don't understand this.  When my friends have babies, I offer to make them dinner and drop it off at their home for them to consume.  I don't eat their food, and I don't have them cook for or entertain me.  Am I doing this backwards?  ;-)

[SwordGuy]

I think, when it comes to pain in the ass parents, that it's really important that your spouse knows they are first and foremost on your list of priorities.  It's also equally important for the parents to know that.

Setting boundaries is part of that process.   Make that "Setting AND Maintaining".

[Gone_Hiking]

They are upper middle class but consider themselves middle class (of course). I honestly don't even know if they knew how I grew up. I wasn't exactly poor when I was in middle/high school I just lived in a very rural area, we didn't go out to eat at fancy restaurants, and my mom never cooked. I still had a car and some help with living expenses in college so definitely not "poor". I think they assume we're sacrificing a lot because we don't have car loans, don't eat out everyday or go to bars, and don't pay a third of our income for housing so that we can live without roommates. You know, things that the typical mid 20s person does. Abnormal to them means something is wrong. My boyfriend was never very materialistic anyway (so I may have had some influence but not all), he hated that they lived in very large houses and did not want a brand new car at 16. He didn't ask for money in college (while his sister did constantly) so they think something is wrong with him/us.

I'm sorry to hear it's happening to you.  Perhaps they feel that buying a used car is below them and they feel bad that the next generation does it?  But then again, you and your partner are adults - and your lifestyle shouldn't really be their problem.

[I'm a red panda]

For some reason we are having to entertain all the people who are coming to see our baby. This involves my husband cooking elaborate meals, what he normally does anyway, but now for more people, every night. Our grocery bill will be huge.

I don't understand this.  When my friends have babies, I offer to make them dinner and drop it off at their home for them to consume.  I don't eat their food, and I don't have them cook for or entertain me.  Am I doing this backwards?  ;-)

Nope. That's normal.
Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

[Linea_Norway]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

[shelivesthedream]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

This is sensible advice. The advice that leapt to my mind was if they won't stay in a hotel, why don't you let them stay in your house and take you, DH and the baby off to a hotel by yourselves? :P You could do a moonlight flit and leave a note!! :)

[gaja]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

[I'm a red panda]

I was ignored when I told people no visitors for the first month. Laughed at actually. Imagine waiting a whole month to see a baby! Ugh.

I consider it a win that DHs parents didn't come at the same time as my parents (they waited until week 3 to not overlap and were pissed about it), and that my parents were not at the hospital when I was in labor (they were with my sister.) Nor staring at me for a week before I went into labor.

My Mom wanted to be here 2 weeks before my due date "just in case" and I put a hell no on that. They came 2 days before, so 1 before I gave birth.

[gaja]

I was ignored when I told people no visitors for the first month. Laughed at actually. Imagine waiting a whole month to see a baby! Ugh.

I consider it a win that DHs parents didn't come at the same time as my parents (they waited until week 3 to not overlap and were pissed about it), and that my parents were not at the hospital when I was in labor (they were with my sister.) Nor staring at me for a week before I went into labor.

My Mom wanted to be here 2 weeks before my due date "just in case" and I put a hell no on that. They came 2 days before, so 1 before I gave birth.

After seeing how parents and inlaws can behave at these types of occasions, DH and I made it clear that we were completely willing to physically lock the doors and enforce our boundaries (DH promised me he would physically throw people out if they intruded on us at the hospital. The nurses did the same). In the three weeks before birth and six weeks after, I don't give a living shit about other people's feelings. It is not that long ago that childbirth was the #1 cause of death both for mothers and children, and post partum depression is a real thing.

The type of people who will laugh at pregnant women who are trying to set boundaries, will not respond well to pleas for help. You usually have to explode in anger at them a few times, and heavily enforce your boundaries. Then they will listen, and behave as decent human beings. Grandparents' feelings are irrelevant in the time periode around the birth. If they don't understand this, they need to go home. If they express any type of entitlement (like "being pissed"); laugh in their faces, and tell them you will send them some photos when you are feeling like it, but right now they need to leave. If your husband won't back you up, he can leave too.

Sorry for the rant. I had two babies in two years, horrible pregnancies and births, and the younger one nearly died. Life got a lot easier when I hit rock bottom and decided it was my way or no way.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

I peaked, your husband needs to get on your team here. He should hear that explicitly. One month in when all the baby wants is to nurse, the husband's highest priority has to be supporting the mother.

[I'm a red panda]

The good news is everyone is gone for now. 

[gaja]

The good news is everyone is gone for now.

That is great news. But you should:
a) tell yourself to don't give a shit about what the old people might be thinking and feeling
b) tell your husband from me ("stranger on the internet") that he has failed in his duties as a father. His main role was to protect his newborn baby and it's mother, and instead he has focused on his and your already egocentric parents.

Ok, maybe you should choose less harsh words. But this is the type of thing that can fester for a long time, so you do need to agree on your boundaries and roles.

[shelivesthedream]

The good news is everyone is gone for now.

That is great news. But you should:
a) tell yourself to don't give a shit about what the old people might be thinking and feeling
b) tell your husband from me ("stranger on the internet") that he has failed in his duties as a father. His main role was to protect his newborn baby and it's mother, and instead he has focused on his and your already egocentric parents.

Ok, maybe you should choose less harsh words. But this is the type of thing that can fester for a long time, so you do need to agree on your boundaries and roles.

Wow, that is really harsh. I know you don't mean to be, but that was like, out of the park harsh. Maybe a little rephrase, like:

b) Tell your husband that such a visit will never happen again without your express permission and it is his job to enforce that boundary with both your parents because you need to deal with the aftermath of labour and the baby.

[gaja]

The good news is everyone is gone for now.

That is great news. But you should:
a) tell yourself to don't give a shit about what the old people might be thinking and feeling
b) tell your husband from me ("stranger on the internet") that he has failed in his duties as a father. His main role was to protect his newborn baby and it's mother, and instead he has focused on his and your already egocentric parents.

Ok, maybe you should choose less harsh words. But this is the type of thing that can fester for a long time, so you do need to agree on your boundaries and roles.

Wow, that is really harsh. I know you don't mean to be, but that was like, out of the park harsh. Maybe a little rephrase, like:

b) Tell your husband that such a visit will never happen again without your express permission and it is his job to enforce that boundary with both your parents because you need to deal with the aftermath of labour and the baby.

Yup, that is probably a better phrasing. But the first weeks after a baby is born are life changing. Without cooperation between the parents, and with grandparents trampling all over boundaries, it can get really bad. So I do think a bit of harshness is called for. I trust Iowajes to adjust the harshness level to what is appropriate to her family life. :)

[TOgirl]

With my first baby, my MIL was out of town on vacation and explicitly told me that I'd better not have the baby before she returned. Baby came 4 weeks early, while she was away. Perfect timing really, because MIL is too much to deal with. She arrived home from vacation when baby was 3 days old...and proceeded to come straight to our house from the airport....at 11pm...to meet the baby. Hubby was not as good at setting boundaries back then, but I hated every time she visited. She proceeded to visit several more times over the next few days (we lived in the same town) and would just plop herself on the couch, demand to hold the baby, tell me what I wasn't doing right with the baby, and ask me to make her tea. We stopped talking for a while after those incidents. My parents respected our wishes all the time. Came over with food, helped with dishes and laundry, etc.

With our second baby, he was born at home (planned)...and we told everyone that our daughter would be the first one to meet him, and relatives could meet him after that. He was born around 11:30pm, and we called both sets of parents to let them know he arrived safely. My parents (who were caring for our daughter) sent best wishes and wanted to know when we wanted our daughter home to meet the baby. We told them to bring her in the morning - they dropped her at the door in the morning and waited outside so that she could meet her brother on her own. His parents demanded to come over immediately and were angry that we declined visitors after midnight. Angry.

They aren't my favourite people. Wonder why. Our kids are older now, and we have established boundaries with the in-laws. The above stories are only a couple of the reasons why.

[prudent_one]

I was skeptical of the story a friend told me last week until I just now read these tales of relatives and new babies. I guess she wasn't exaggerating.

Her baby was 3 weeks old and she and the baby flew to stay for a week with her grandparents who were financially unable to come to visit them and see the baby.  She lasted 3 days before coming back home.

The grandparents are in OK health (they still drive capably). But the grandmother decided to be all "I know best" regarding the childcare. Grandfather won't ask directions for anything and since they have nothing else to do they don't mind if a 30 minute trip takes 90 minutes when grandfather takes a wrong turn somewhere.  At the 60-minute mark on day one, heading out to dinner, with no apparent end in sight due to being lost, my friend asks them to stop so she can feed the baby. Grandmother says the baby doesn't need to eat already so they won't stop. Finally they get to the restaurant and my friend says she needs to feed the baby before they go in. Now grandmother is upset because the place is starting to get crowded and they don't want to wait in a long line. Oh, and I already told you the baby doesn't need to eat so soon. They won't wait for my friend and go in without her (lest they not get seated ASAP), letting her feed the baby in the car.

The next day grandmother lectures my friend that she feeds the baby too often, she holds the baby too much, she shouldn't fuss when the baby starts to cry, she isn't using the right diapers, she isn't bathing the baby right.... on and on.  My friend makes up an excuse and pays $$$ to change her flight home so she can get out of there the next day.

I was shocked that anyone would act like that (especially family) but your stories have convinced me it's not far-fetched.

[I'm a red panda]

I have no doubt that happened.

I also don't think my husband failed as a father. He's awesome, and we let ourself be boundary stomped together.

[Cassie]

It's such a shame that people don't respect boundaries. WE never had any problems with my parents or the in-laws. If I had family like some of you guys I would not even tell them I was pregnant until a month after the baby was born:))   Of course this only works if you live in different towns.

[marielle]

It's 100% true. If you're a redditor, visit r/JustNoMIL. Countless stories of MILs going crazy over the grandkids: complaining about not spending enough time with them, telling the parents that everything they're doing is wrong, putting the grandkids in dangerous situations, etc... Most of the stories on there are grandkid related, actually.

One example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/4bycmd/you_dont_take_a_moms_11hour_old_baby_out_of_her/

[I'm a red panda]

It's such a shame that people don't respect boundaries. WE never had any problems with my parents or the in-laws. If I had family like some of you guys I would not even tell them I was pregnant until a month after the baby was born:))   Of course this only works if you live in different towns.

We didn't tell the in laws I was in labor until I had the baby. (Which MIL the posted on facebook before we did!!! SIL was amazing and posted "seriously? Before the parents? No one else commented, and DH made her take it down after SIL told us it was there.) My parents we didn't tell until dinner time, when we called to tell them we wouldn't be home.

I don't think there will be any more children, my two pregnancies have been very hard, but not telling anyone sounds great. We could just show up to a family reunion and be like "we have two living children now". Sounds easier.

[Goldielocks]

I have no doubt that happened.

I also don't think my husband failed as a father. He's awesome, and we let ourself be boundary stomped together.

Yay for solidarity!   

...?..
 
:-)

[Cookie78]

It's 100% true. If you're a redditor, visit r/JustNoMIL. Countless stories of MILs going crazy over the grandkids: complaining about not spending enough time with them, telling the parents that everything they're doing is wrong, putting the grandkids in dangerous situations, etc... Most of the stories on there are grandkid related, actually.

One example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/4bycmd/you_dont_take_a_moms_11hour_old_baby_out_of_her/

AWESOME move by the father!

[shelivesthedream]

It's such a shame that people don't respect boundaries. WE never had any problems with my parents or the in-laws. If I had family like some of you guys I would not even tell them I was pregnant until a month after the baby was born:))   Of course this only works if you live in different towns.

Seriously already thinking about how long we can keep the news from my mother if we ever have children - of both birth and pregnancy. Mainly because we have a precarious entente which is largely built upon never saying anything other than small talk, and I can see how we'd get into deeper conversation pretty quickly about children. She'd ask about the birth plan, I'd obfuscate but eventually have to tell her, she'd make some passive-aggressive but deniable veiled criticism, I have to decide whether to play nice to keep the peace or enforce boundaries and start an argument and be accused of criticising HER... Oh man. (And iowajes, I sympathise with struggling to enforce boundaries - no one wants to pour petrol onto embers if the embers will just keep glowing quietly by themselves, but you still get burned by embers.) If I could keep the entire pregnancy and existence of the child secret from her forever, I would.

[Riff]

It's 100% true. If you're a redditor, visit r/JustNoMIL. Countless stories of MILs going crazy over the grandkids: complaining about not spending enough time with them, telling the parents that everything they're doing is wrong, putting the grandkids in dangerous situations, etc... Most of the stories on there are grandkid related, actually.

One example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/4bycmd/you_dont_take_a_moms_11hour_old_baby_out_of_her/

AWESOME move by the father!

I just went down the rabbit hole and read a few more posts by that person on reddit.  Holy shit.

[Vindicated]

My MIL has been great with our Son, and respecting our boundaries.  My FIL's new wife, however, has comments about everything.  The day he was born, they came to visit at the hospital, and the FIRST thing she said was, "You got him circumcised, right?"  "Uh, no..."  "What?!?"  "We think it's unnecessary, and I'm not and never had problems..."

Who asks that?

I really think she's just trying to be helpful and make conversation, but it took a while for her to stop criticizing the most mundane choices we were making.  She seems to have backed off now that my Son managed to survive the first 2 years of life.

[HappierAtHome]

It's 100% true. If you're a redditor, visit r/JustNoMIL. Countless stories of MILs going crazy over the grandkids: complaining about not spending enough time with them, telling the parents that everything they're doing is wrong, putting the grandkids in dangerous situations, etc... Most of the stories on there are grandkid related, actually.

One example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/4bycmd/you_dont_take_a_moms_11hour_old_baby_out_of_her/

AWESOME move by the father!

I just went down the rabbit hole and read a few more posts by that person on reddit.  Holy shit.

I ended up reading every thread that person started. Oh my lord. Yeah, her husband is not a good example for anyone in any possible way.

[Cookie78]

It's 100% true. If you're a redditor, visit r/JustNoMIL. Countless stories of MILs going crazy over the grandkids: complaining about not spending enough time with them, telling the parents that everything they're doing is wrong, putting the grandkids in dangerous situations, etc... Most of the stories on there are grandkid related, actually.

One example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/4bycmd/you_dont_take_a_moms_11hour_old_baby_out_of_her/

AWESOME move by the father!

I just went down the rabbit hole and read a few more posts by that person on reddit.  Holy shit.

I ended up reading every thread that person started. Oh my lord. Yeah, her husband is not a good example for anyone in any possible way.

I had to go back and read more after your post. Holy shit, indeed.

[Abundant life]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

[sw1tch]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

Not everyone has a loving, healthy relationship with their parents.  Ones that step all over your boundaries and don't respect you can wait until later (unless they can figure out that you're an adult with your own autonomy).  I fail to see how a parent that doesn't respect their own child's boundaries (the parents/parents to be) will respect their own grandchildren and their boundaries into the future.

[gaja]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

The focus should be 100 % on what is best for the child, which is to have happy, relaxed and functioning parents. If the grandparent is able to keep that focus and be of help, then I would guess they probably will be invited to see the kid earlier. But far too many grandparents are far too self focused. Pressuring the parents to get into the delivery room, or to get to visit the baby as early as possible, is not at all good for the baby. A bleeding, insomniac woman, who is full of hormones and hurting everywhere, should not feel any obligation to carter to healthy grandparents, or be walking on eggshells because their feelings might be hurt. She needs to focus 100% of her energy on her new baby. Any adult that thinks their feelings should trump that, should seriously reconsider their priorities. 

As a potential grandmother, I'm looking forward to being of help to my daughters if they choose to have children. I'm raising them to be very clear about their feelings, needs and boundaries. I will see their children if and when they ask me to visit, and hopefully we will find a good dialogue so I can develop a good relationship with the grandkids as they grow up. The first 6-12 weeks have little or nothing to do with bonding with grandma, it is the next 18-20 years that matter.

Consider this scenario: you get a message from your daughter that her 7 year old son is in hospital, he has been in an accident and broken his back. He has been in a lot of pain, but has finally fallen asleep. Do you:
a) rush to the hospital and demand to see him to make sure that your beloved grandchild is ok? It will wake him up, be a source of stress for both your daughter and grandchild, and you will be of no use. But you will probably feel better after you've seen him.
b) reply to your daughter's text message with some encouraging words, and ask her to tell you immidiately if you can be of any help with anything. Maybe offer to babysit a sibling, make dinner, buy them something, or do something else that is useful.

[Shinplaster]

Except.my friends have been bringing diapers and holding the baby for an hour so I can nap, since my husband cooks.

But none of our family is local, so they are coming for extended stays. And seem to think "helping" means something different than what I do.

That is hopeless, having to take care of visitors in additional to having a baby. Could you not sit down with them and have a talk. Tell them that you really appreciate them coming, but that it is a burden to be a host. As if they want to lift your burden by taking over some of your household chores, like grocery shopping, cooking, cleaning etc. Tell them that you are stressed out of your mind and really need some help.

Usually the easiest is to just say no. If you tell them ahead of the birth that you won't have any visitors until 6-12 weeks after the baby is born, it is much easier to loosen the rules afterwards. If they expect to almost take part in the birth, they will be disappointed if you ask them to wait one week before visiting. If they know from the start you want peace and quiet, they will be positively surprised if they get to see the baby already after two weeks.

With a newborn, usually the best help is to stay away (or bring food and leave).

Wow! All this seems a little harsh, not seeing a new grandchild for a couple of weeks?

Ok, you don't want to visit too long or inappropriately, but it seems a little cruel and unusual (maybe not so unusual!) to exclude the grandparents (who probably love the child the most next to the parents) and treat them with such disdain.

Knowing how much you love your children, how do you think you'd feel treated like this when your time came to be grandparents?

New grandma here.  WE suggested we wait a month to meet bubs (now 10 months old).  Was it hard? Yes.  It's our first grandchild.  We don't live in the same city, so we can't just pop by.  But we wanted our son and DIL to have a chance to settle in as their own little family first, and arrive when some help would be appreciated.  I knew from experience that at the one month stage, extra hands would be welcome.  It isn't OUR baby, it's their baby, and we will always try to do what's best for them first.  By doing so, we get a better relationship too. 

Our family tradition when meeting new babies is to bring food for now, food for the freezer, let Mom and/or Dad get a shower in peace, help with some cleaning if needed, cuddle bubs, and leave.   And always, always, call ahead and ask first, and don't be offended if the answer is 'not today'.   My MIL did not believe any of the above was necessary.  We ended up moving 2 hours away to stop her meddling.