Relatives who just don't get it

[AMandM]

If you have parents who don't make love or gifts conditional, I hope you are grateful for them every single day of your life.

My parents and my in-laws are both like this.  Thanks for the reminder to appreciate them, SLTD.

[Metric Mouse]

My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.

I don't understand the stigma of preventing your kids from playing a very mustachian sport. Wow!
'Murica, yeah!

We both hate soccer. Hated playing it, and hate watching it. Maybe if I could see it live on primetime I'd care, but it bores me to death--it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

As it is, we both enjoy golf, baseball, hockey, figure skating, lacrosse, fishing, tennis, volleyball, and basketball... And only hockey and figure skating are really unmustachian from those (although any can be made to be unmustachian).

We just can't stand soccer.

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

Ug. Hockey is a slow, boring thing to watch anyway. The fact that it's freezing cold only amplifies the argument that there are better things to do with one's time.

[MgoSam]

My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.

I don't understand the stigma of preventing your kids from playing a very mustachian sport. Wow!
'Murica, yeah!

We both hate soccer. Hated playing it, and hate watching it. Maybe if I could see it live on primetime I'd care, but it bores me to death--it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

As it is, we both enjoy golf, baseball, hockey, figure skating, lacrosse, fishing, tennis, volleyball, and basketball... And only hockey and figure skating are really unmustachian from those (although any can be made to be unmustachian).

We just can't stand soccer.

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

Ug. Hockey is a slow, boring thing to watch anyway. The fact that it's freezing cold only amplifies the argument that there are better things to do with one's time.

Have you been to a hockey game? I felt similarly until I went to my first match.

[Metric Mouse]

Have you been to a hockey game? I felt similarly until I went to my first match.

Several at the college/high school level. The over-priced beer didn't make up for the downsides.

I've found I much prefer to watch sports on television - none of the down time, you're much closer to the action, the bathrooms are cleaner and the booze is cheaper.  Even on television hockey is pretty meh.

[Linea_Norway]

I've found I much prefer to watch sports on television - none of the down time, you're much closer to the action, the bathrooms are cleaner and the booze is cheaper.  Even on television hockey is pretty meh.

I feel similar about cinema's. At home you can get cheap drinks and take a sanitary break when you need it. And you don't have to travel back and forth and pay for a parking ticket, which is in my town not free at night. And you don't hear people around you crunching popcorn. Buying a DVD on sale is also the same as the price of 1 single cinema ticket.

[BTDretire]

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

Apt Description.  Hockey, soccer, basketball, water polo, handball, field hockey, lacrosse - all variations of the same fundamental game of "put a special object into the other team's receptacle".

 Except in hockey and soccer, you don't get to, "put that special object into the other team's receptacle". very often.

[mtn]

My wife and I worry what we'll do if our kids don't end up in either Hockey or Figure Skating. We fear that they'll want to play football, or worse, soccer. But yeah, the time commitment is enormous.

I don't understand the stigma of preventing your kids from playing a very mustachian sport. Wow!
'Murica, yeah!

We both hate soccer. Hated playing it, and hate watching it. Maybe if I could see it live on primetime I'd care, but it bores me to death--it is worse to watch than baseball or golf, and I enjoy watching both of those.

As it is, we both enjoy golf, baseball, hockey, figure skating, lacrosse, fishing, tennis, volleyball, and basketball... And only hockey and figure skating are really unmustachian from those (although any can be made to be unmustachian).

We just can't stand soccer.

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

Ug. Hockey is a slow, boring thing to watch anyway. The fact that it's freezing cold only amplifies the argument that there are better things to do with one's time.

If hockey is slow, what is fast?

Sincerely curious. I guess you could say Tennis or Jai Lai in terms of terminal velocity of an object, but in terms of your "normal" team sports I don't think there is anything faster than hockey--shots are approaching 110; skaters as fast as 20mph, constantly moving the whole time....

[dandarc]

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

Apt Description.  Hockey, soccer, basketball, water polo, handball, field hockey, lacrosse - all variations of the same fundamental game of "put a special object into the other team's receptacle".

 Except in hockey and soccer, you don't get to, "put that special object into the other team's receptacle". very often.

Makes it all the more special when it does happen.

[BDWW]

Just think of it as slow, boring hockey for countries that don't have ice.

Apt Description.  Hockey, soccer, basketball, water polo, handball, field hockey, lacrosse - all variations of the same fundamental game of "put a special object into the other team's receptacle".

 Except in hockey and soccer, you don't get to, "put that special object into the other team's receptacle". very often.

Makes it all the more special when it does happen.

Yeah, that argument has never made much sense to me. Really, just multiple the goals by 7 if you want to be more like football.  And don't even bother with basketball, you can skip the first three quarters because they usually don't matter.

[Dicey]

Couldn't you just hack that on/off switch? Arduino, little stepper motor to actuate the switch, a little programming, and boom - you have a programmable thermostat with no internal changes... ;)

Just make sure your program has hysteresis - otherwise you'll go on-off-on-off-on-off and burn out some expensive equipment.

Can you not just install a programmable thermostat? They're not that expensive. Tape it to the wall with that Command stuff if you want to remove it when you leave. Am I missing something? The payback in comfort alone could be huge, not to mention actual green soldiers saved.

[Step37]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

[Goldielocks]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

They can get moldy that way, the wrap is clear so it isn't about greening...  it can't be about people handling them and then eating them as is (why I see wrapped apples at the airport) because you cook them. 

If you cook them in that wrap, the baked potatoes would turn out poorly... even in microwave...

[gimp]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Does she not know that ten-pound bags are like $3? Did you inform her?

[Linea_Norway]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

They are probably wrapped for the same reason that peppers, squash and cauliflower are wrapped, to prevent then from people's hands and bacteria. Those vegetables didn't use to be wrapped when I was young and when we bought vegetables at the vegetable store. But now most vegetables are wrapped in plastic. In Norway the big baking-potatoes are sometimes sold while wrapped in silver foil. That way you can put them on the barbecue in the wrapping.

[zolotiyeruki]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

It has nothing to do with hygeine or anything like that.  It's there so that you can put a label and a price tag on an individual potato.

[jinga nation]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

It has nothing to do with hygeine or anything like that.  It's there so that you can put a label and a price tag on an individual potato.

Because.
Seriously, because people will buy.
How many ways can you sell a potato?
It's like the Arm & Hammer Baking Soda example that we studied in a college class.

[Silverwood]

What's the baking soda example?

I hate plastic on food. When you start realizing how much plastic is being used it's mind boggling. So much of it ends up in the ocean.  :( 

[threefive]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

It has nothing to do with hygeine or anything like that.  It's there so that you can put a label and a price tag on an individual potato.

I have actually bought a few of those wrapped potatoes in the past [ducks face punch]. They are marketed as being wrapped in plastic so that you can throw them in the microwave, plastic and all, and easily steam them in 8 minutes. But really, they are wrapped individually for exactly the reasons zolotiyeruki claims: a place for a label and the promise of convenience for those of us that never learned you can just as easily cook any potato in the microwave in about 8 minutes without silly plastic wrap.

[MgoSam]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

It has nothing to do with hygeine or anything like that.  It's there so that you can put a label and a price tag on an individual potato.

I have actually bought a few of those wrapped potatoes in the past [ducks face punch]. They are marketed as being wrapped in plastic so that you can throw them in the microwave, plastic and all, and easily steam them in 8 minutes. But really, they are wrapped individually for exactly the reasons zolotiyeruki claims: a place for a label and the promise of convenience for those of us that never learned you can just as easily cook any potato in the microwave in about 8 minutes without silly plastic wrap.

Plus sometimes you really just need a single potato. I can understand why grocery stores will charge insane amounts for small servings, I remember seeing in the summer that they were selling 1/4 watermelon cut for the same price as a whole watermelon, obviously trying to make some money off the lazy or people in a hurry to a BBQ and look for something healthy to bring.

Also, what's the baking soda example?

[mtn]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

It has nothing to do with hygeine or anything like that.  It's there so that you can put a label and a price tag on an individual potato.

I have actually bought a few of those wrapped potatoes in the past [ducks face punch]. They are marketed as being wrapped in plastic so that you can throw them in the microwave, plastic and all, and easily steam them in 8 minutes. But really, they are wrapped individually for exactly the reasons zolotiyeruki claims: a place for a label and the promise of convenience for those of us that never learned you can just as easily cook any potato in the microwave in about 8 minutes without silly plastic wrap.

Plus sometimes you really just need a single potato. I can understand why grocery stores will charge insane amounts for small servings, I remember seeing in the summer that they were selling 1/4 watermelon cut for the same price as a whole watermelon, obviously trying to make some money off the lazy or people in a hurry to a BBQ and look for something healthy to bring.

Thats the same reason I buy 1/2 gallons of milk--I no longer drink even the whole half gallon; even though it is a "worse deal" than the full gallon, I'm still throwing some away so I should buy the cheaper one.

The Potato one though, you can usually buy loose potatoes and they'll weigh them for you. They cost like $0.50 a pound. A single potato is about $0.25.

[cheapass]

They are marketed as being wrapped in plastic so that you can throw them in the microwave, plastic and all, and easily steam them in 8 minutes.

I'm pretty sure microwaving food in cheap plastic is probably not the best thing to do from an "avoiding cancer" standpoint.

[Goldielocks]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

They are probably wrapped for the same reason that peppers, squash and cauliflower are wrapped, to prevent then from people's hands and bacteria. Those vegetables didn't use to be wrapped when I was young and when we bought vegetables at the vegetable store. But now most vegetables are wrapped in plastic. In Norway the big baking-potatoes are sometimes sold while wrapped in silver foil. That way you can put them on the barbecue in the wrapping.

But. but. but.  People don't eat raw potatoes, do they?   

They came from the GROUND...  lots of native bacteria there... which is why we wash and / or cook?

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Not sure if serious? We eat raw carrots...

[Goldielocks]

Not sure if serious? We eat raw carrots...

But do you eat raw POTATOES?!

[BlueHouse]

 the reason I can is cause I don't.

Good quote.  Clear, concise.  perfect. 

[BDWW]

Not sure if serious? We eat raw carrots...

But do you eat raw POTATOES?!

I was a bit of handful when I was a child(probably 6/7?), so I got sent to bed without supper a number of times. The pantry was next to my room though, so I'd sneak potatoes. Of course, the taste is less than desirable, so I'd only get about halfway through, and hide the rest under the bed. Then one day my mom decided to help me clean the room, and found about ten half eaten potatoes under the bed!

[Goldielocks]

Not sure if serious? We eat raw carrots...

But do you eat raw POTATOES?!

I was a bit of handful when I was a child(probably 6/7?), so I got sent to bed without supper a number of times. The pantry was next to my room though, so I'd sneak potatoes. Of course, the taste is less than desirable, so I'd only get about halfway through, and hide the rest under the bed. Then one day my mom decided to help me clean the room, and found about ten half eaten potatoes under the bed!

BDWW -- your mom has my permission to buy wrapped potatoes.
..
I eat raw potatoes, sometimes, too, but it is only like a cube while I cut them up for boiling -- after I have washed and peeled them.  But the waste in plastic wrapping potatoes for normal people?  The spoilage acceleration alone would be expensive.

[Joggernot]

Not sure if serious? We eat raw carrots...

But do you eat raw POTATOES?!

Yes.  I do wash them, but sometimes eat them raw.  I'm 71 and still alive and I've done it all my life.  Might be the secret of longevity... :)

[merula]

Raw potato answer: Probably OK, if you like that sort of thing. (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-1f5focusm195324-pros-and-cons-munching-raw-potatoe-2009aug05-story.html)

Baking soda answer: The story goes that Arm & Hammer was having trouble with stagnant sales. It wasn't brand recognition or reaching new customers; everyone know A&H baking soda, most people have a box in their pantry and it's found in virtually every grocery store. The root problem was that virtually no one used very much baking soda. A teaspoon here and there, maybe more around Christmas.

"AH! But wait! Baking soda deodorizes! Refrigerators get smelly! We can tell everyone to put an open box of baking soda in their fridge to prevent odors, and we'll double our sales!"

And the tactic worked! Only  once virtually everyone had a box in their fridge, sales dropped again. Cue recommendations that you need one in your freezer compartment, too, and then that you need to replace it every 3 months. They even added a date box to the package to help you keep track of when you needed to buy a new box.

And, in the end, we all bought way more baking soda than we really needed.

[Step37]

My sister does not have the mustachian gene. Until last week's visit, I was (blissfully) unaware that it was possible to purchase individually plastic-wrapped potatoes for $1 each. *cringe*

Why are they wrapped? 

It has nothing to do with hygeine or anything like that.  It's there so that you can put a label and a price tag on an individual potato.

I have actually bought a few of those wrapped potatoes in the past [ducks face punch]. They are marketed as being wrapped in plastic so that you can throw them in the microwave, plastic and all, and easily steam them in 8 minutes. But really, they are wrapped individually for exactly the reasons zolotiyeruki claims: a place for a label and the promise of convenience for those of us that never learned you can just as easily cook any potato in the microwave in about 8 minutes without silly plastic wrap.

Plus sometimes you really just need a single potato. I can understand why grocery stores will charge insane amounts for small servings, I remember seeing in the summer that they were selling 1/4 watermelon cut for the same price as a whole watermelon, obviously trying to make some money off the lazy or people in a hurry to a BBQ and look for something healthy to bring.

Thats the same reason I buy 1/2 gallons of milk--I no longer drink even the whole half gallon; even though it is a "worse deal" than the full gallon, I'm still throwing some away so I should buy the cheaper one.

The Potato one though, you can usually buy loose potatoes and they'll weigh them for you. They cost like $0.50 a pound. A single potato is about $0.25.

All of the above... I just thought the $1 plastic-wrapped potato was an absolutely perfect encapsulation of sister/BIL's exploding volcano of wasteful spending/living. Now, if they were on solid financial ground with lots of savings and no financial stress (and didn't owe me 15K and other relatives far more) I would just shake my head at the environmental horror of it all. In their eyes it's an income problem; however, it is at least 95% a spending problem. When they find a buyer for their property (hopefully this year!), they will be free and clear with a decent chunk of money left (that most any mustachian could early retire on quite comfortably). My fear is that they will not be prudent with that cash and end up destitute within ten years (when they're in their early fifties).

I try not to say too much, because it is not well received. I recommended she read Dave Ramsey after a tearful request for a loan increase a year ago -- NOT happening (the loan, not sure if she did the reading) -- and have forwarded a couple of MMM articles (cutting grocery bill for one). The best I can do is lead by example the few times a year that I see them. It hurts my head to watch intelligent, kind people continue to make the horrible spending choices that they do. There have been a couple of small improvements, but they really need to do a 180. I will gladly be a fountain of wisdom for them, but they need to be ready to hear it and make the changes.

Thanks for listening! I have read through several threads on here about people trying to help relatives, and there is a lot of good advice. This is a great group of people.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Not sure if serious? We eat raw carrots...

But do you eat raw POTATOES?!

Yes.  I do wash them, but sometimes eat them raw.  I'm 71 and still alive and I've done it all my life.  Might be the secret of longevity... :)

My ex-girlfriend was a fiend for raw baby potatoes. She'd snack on them. If I was wanting to make some up for dinner I'd have to buy two bags: one to cook, and one for her to nosh on.

[jinga nation]

The baking soda example.... Had a case study very similar to this one, I was in college at the same time.
http://financecasestudy.blogspot.com/2009/04/arm-hammer-1998-poised-for-growth.html

Arm & Hammer Baking Soda was synonymous with very few uses, as most people could only think it was for baking and keeping in your fridge. Most of my classmates and I didn't realize that the biggest strength of the product is odor removal. The company capitalized on this simple ingredient's number one capability to branch into various product categories.

Back to the humble potato, I saw an amazing recipe for Frosted Meatloaf.
https://www.cookscountry.com/recipes/7734-frosted-meatloaf?ref=videos_related_content_2

[Sibley]

Raw potato answer: Probably OK, if you like that sort of thing. (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-1f5focusm195324-pros-and-cons-munching-raw-potatoe-2009aug05-story.html)

Baking soda answer: The story goes that Arm & Hammer was having trouble with stagnant sales. It wasn't brand recognition or reaching new customers; everyone know A&H baking soda, most people have a box in their pantry and it's found in virtually every grocery store. The root problem was that virtually no one used very much baking soda. A teaspoon here and there, maybe more around Christmas.

"AH! But wait! Baking soda deodorizes! Refrigerators get smelly! We can tell everyone to put an open box of baking soda in their fridge to prevent odors, and we'll double our sales!"

And the tactic worked! Only  once virtually everyone had a box in their fridge, sales dropped again. Cue recommendations that you need one in your freezer compartment, too, and then that you need to replace it every 3 months. They even added a date box to the package to help you keep track of when you needed to buy a new box.

And, in the end, we all bought way more baking soda than we really needed.

So keeping a box of baking soda in the fridge indefinitely is fine? My record is 6 years. Excellent.

[Just Joe]

Nothing new in this topic but I got another vibe today that my parents think we are either stingy, wasteful (and thus broke), lazy (and thus broke, that one got to me) or denying our children nicer things - because we make frugal choices. Hopefully I'm wrong.

...because our don't demonstrate our prosperity with what we buy, we must be poor...

Note to the world - we're doing fine. DW and I are parents who have worked hard to guarantee a roof over our family's heads and we are trying hard not to raise consumerist children who think their happiness hinge on what they buy on frequent shopping trips. Its working.

Apparently frugality is not well received or understood by our out of town family - but I guess we knew that.

Just here to vent. I'm done.

[Playing with Fire UK]

Nothing new in this topic but I got another vibe today that my parents think we are either stingy, wasteful (and thus broke), lazy (and thus broke, that one got to me) or denying our children nicer things - because we make frugal choices. Hopefully I'm wrong.
...
Note to the world - we're doing fine. DW and I are parents who have worked hard to guarantee a roof over our family's heads and we are trying hard not to raise consumerist children who think their happiness hinge on what they buy on frequent shopping trips. Its working.

Tasty Pinecones, it sounds like you are doing great. You are not lazy, you are doing a far more difficult and worthwhile thing. You are not stingy, you are giving your children a gift that is incredibly valuable and that no money can buy.

Keep being awesome!

[Linea_Norway]

Nothing new in this topic but I got another vibe today that my parents think we are either stingy, wasteful (and thus broke), lazy (and thus broke, that one got to me) or denying our children nicer things - because we make frugal choices. Hopefully I'm wrong.

...because our don't demonstrate our prosperity with what we buy, we must be poor...

Note to the world - we're doing fine. DW and I are parents who have worked hard to guarantee a roof over our family's heads and we are trying hard not to raise consumerist children who think their happiness hinge on what they buy on frequent shopping trips. Its working.

Apparently frugality is not well received or understood by our out of town family - but I guess we knew that.

Just here to vent. I'm done.

I often notice the difference between my nephews. My brother's 2 children are drowning in a big pile of expensive toys. Yes, they seem happy to play with it. But one year they got 3! fire trucks for Christmas. I'm pretty sure 1 would have given the same amount of joy.
My brother in law's child does not receive expensive gifts. He seems happy playing with simple things.

Yes, I think parents can form their children by what they buy them. I expect my BIL's son to turn into a nicer child in matters of materialistic needs.

[merula]

So keeping a box of baking soda in the fridge indefinitely is fine? My record is 6 years. Excellent.

You probably don't need it there anyway, but if you've already bought it, just don't replace it.

[Kitsune]

But one year they got 3! fire trucks for Christmas. I'm pretty sure 1 would have given the same amount of joy.
My brother in law's child does not receive expensive gifts. He seems happy playing with simple things.

Yes, I think parents can form their children by what they buy them. I expect my BIL's son to turn into a nicer child in matters of materialistic needs.

Well, then you need a bigger house to store all the toys, right? ;)

(Speaking as a parent, I don't want to be tripping over 3 fire trucks, and would rather limit the clutter. Also, I've found children have a hard time focussing on what they're playing with when surrounded by too many toys. My toddler does MUCH better when her options are 'play kitchen and doll, or else building blocks in the basket' and the other toys are tucked away in the closet. And then we'll rotate out the building blocks for the toy farm or whatever, to great delight, but if it's all out she can't focus and makes a big mess and gets frazzled and everything is more difficult for all of us. Limited toys = maximized happiness for ALL family members.)

[Just Joe]

Truly some of our kids' favorite toys have been a box, some string and a stick (when they were younger). ;)

Even now when they are older - they still are drawn to activities where they make something or are actively moving around.

In our case my parents are so self-involved that they really don't know our kids very well anymore. I recommended to my parents to come and spend time with our kids that they said they miss so much but that was not well received (as expected):

"Well, we've been waiting for an invitation!"

Meanwhile we invite them constantly. Every time we see them. Always excuses. What it boils down to is the grandparents always want our kids at their house, on their turf, where they can set the rules. Our kids feel stifled and captive. This goes right along with other parts the GPs personalities which have controlling tendencies.

Our kids at their house are not the same as our kids in their own home surrounded by their own things. They have things they would prob like to share with their GPs if there was more of a relationship there. I don't discuss this topic much with the GPs b/c just like the last time I saw them - it always gets turned around so its something solely our fault which isn't true by a long shot.

[mtn]

Truly some of our kids' favorite toys have been a box, some string and a stick (when they were younger). ;)

Even now when they are older - they still are drawn to activities where they make something or are actively moving around.

In our case my parents are so self-involved that they really don't know our kids very well anymore. I recommended to my parents to come and spend time with our kids that they said they miss so much but that was not well received (as expected):

"Well, we've been waiting for an invitation!"

Meanwhile we invite them constantly. Every time we see them. Always excuses. What it boils down to is the grandparents always want our kids at their house, on their turf, where they can set the rules. Our kids feel stifled and captive. This goes right along with other parts the GPs personalities which have controlling tendencies.

Our kids at their house are not the same as our kids in their own home surrounded by their own things. They have things they would prob like to share with their GPs if there was more of a relationship there. I don't discuss this topic much with the GPs b/c just like the last time I saw them - it always gets turned around so its something solely our fault which isn't true by a long shot.

I fear that when we have kids, they will have a much better relationship with my parents than my wifes because of this. Well, her mother anyways. Her father will come over often and let them be kids. Her mother will want them to behave.

My parents, meanwhile, I'm afraid will do everything they can to wreak havoc on my wife and I by giving our future kids dangerous toys, letting them drive cars too young, having them get dirty then handing them off to us to clean up... Basically revenge on me. And I'll welcome it.

[MgoSam]

"Well, we've been waiting for an invitation!"

Meanwhile we invite them constantly. Every time we see them. Always excuses. What it boils down to is the grandparents always want our kids at their house, on their turf, where they can set the rules.

I'm sorry to hear this.

I've actually used that line on my brother and his wife, each time they come to visit my parents they'll tell me this and last time I wasn't in the best of mood and nearly told my brother to F himself. Reason being I have about a dozen emails and text messages where I'll ask them when I can come visit, or in early October I emailed him saying, "I can come nearly anytime in November, let me know when I can come," and didn't receive a response. So I didn't feel any constrained in reaming him out in public when he pretends like the only reason I haven't visited him was due a lack of interest on my part.

[BlueHouse]

I often notice the difference between my nephews. My brother's 2 children are drowning in a big pile of expensive toys. Yes, they seem happy to play with it. But one year they got 3! fire trucks for Christmas. I'm pretty sure 1 would have given the same amount of joy.
My brother in law's child does not receive expensive gifts. He seems happy playing with simple things.

Yes, I think parents can form their children by what they buy them. I expect my BIL's son to turn into a nicer child in matters of materialistic needs.

Oh gosh, so true.  My brothers' children has so.much.stuff.  They had more gadgetry when they were ages 6-12 than I did as a working adult. (I've since remedied that, but that's my problem)
My other nephew's parents didn't have much so they gave their kid a 3 foot length of 1 inch diameter rope and then duct-taped the end of it to look like the nozzle of a firehose.  That kid carried it with him everywhere. 
One year, the kids with personal DVD players, tons of matchboxes, nintendos, etc were bored out of their minds while the other nephew was happily playing with his rope and his imagination.  And this was repeated every year with different toys.  It was wonderful to see. 

[Sibley]

So keeping a box of baking soda in the fridge indefinitely is fine? My record is 6 years. Excellent.

You probably don't need it there anyway, but if you've already bought it, just don't replace it.

Oh yes it's needed. Roommate. Could be worse, but I don't want a smelly fridge.

[Linea_Norway]

But one year they got 3! fire trucks for Christmas. I'm pretty sure 1 would have given the same amount of joy.
My brother in law's child does not receive expensive gifts. He seems happy playing with simple things.

Yes, I think parents can form their children by what they buy them. I expect my BIL's son to turn into a nicer child in matters of materialistic needs.

Well, then you need a bigger house to store all the toys, right? ;)

(Speaking as a parent, I don't want to be tripping over 3 fire trucks, and would rather limit the clutter. Also, I've found children have a hard time focussing on what they're playing with when surrounded by too many toys. My toddler does MUCH better when her options are 'play kitchen and doll, or else building blocks in the basket' and the other toys are tucked away in the closet. And then we'll rotate out the building blocks for the toy farm or whatever, to great delight, but if it's all out she can't focus and makes a big mess and gets frazzled and everything is more difficult for all of us. Limited toys = maximized happiness for ALL family members.)

My brother just bought a bigger house... So I can guess the reason.

[Dave1442397]

My nephew stopped by to pick up my MIL yesterday, and I noticed that the RAV-4 he was driving had a "new car" temporary licence plate. I asked if they had replaced the old RAV-4. Nope, the lease is done (three or four years) so they financed the car...seven year loan. So they'll be paying for it for ten or eleven years. Good thing it's a Toyota, at least.

Back when they leased it, BIL had to get a 6-cylinder, because he "doesn't drive 4-cylinder cars". Anyone who drives with him or behind him keeps looking over to make sure he's not actually a ninety-year-old grandma, 'cause that's how he drives. A golf cart would suit his driving style better.

[mtn]

My nephew stopped by to pick up my MIL yesterday, and I noticed that the RAV-4 he was driving had a "new car" temporary licence plate. I asked if they had replaced the old RAV-4. Nope, the lease is done (three or four years) so they financed the car...seven year loan. So they'll be paying for it for ten or eleven years. Good thing it's a Toyota, at least.

Back when they leased it, BIL had to get a 6-cylinder, because he "doesn't drive 4-cylinder cars". Anyone who drives with him or behind him keeps looking over to make sure he's not actually a ninety-year-old grandma, 'cause that's how he drives. A golf cart would suit his driving style better.

Antiquated view from when 4 cylinder cars were always slow dogs that couldn't get out of their own way? My dad drove 4 cylinders in the 70's and 80's. Then he was tired of flooring it to get to speed and got the "I don't drive 4 cylinder cars anymore" mentality for a long time. He came out of it, but it wasn't without merit.

[economista]

My brother and SIL are a single income family, living off part-time minimum wage hours, and receive subsidized housing and food stamps.  They also recently found out their 4th child is on the way.  Apparently they filed their taxes at one of those pop-up shops that will give you your refund upfront (along with an exorbitant fee) and used it to buy a husky puppy that cost $1000.  After taking it home they learned their rental doesn't allow pets, so they dropped it off at my mom's house for her to take care of until they move into a rental that allows dogs.  But of course, they can't give my mom any money toward the dog food because they are broke and can barely feed their own kids.  I honestly can't understand their logic at all: they can't feed their 3 kids without government assistance, they can't house their kids without assistance, they have another kid on the way, and they blow $1000 on a damn dog they can't afford to feed either. 

[Just Joe]

MIL ought to grow some back bone and say "hell no!" - take your puppy with you.

[Step37]

My brother and SIL are a single income family, living off part-time minimum wage hours, and receive subsidized housing and food stamps.  They also recently found out their 4th child is on the way.  Apparently they filed their taxes at one of those pop-up shops that will give you your refund upfront (along with an exorbitant fee) and used it to buy a husky puppy that cost $1000.  After taking it home they learned their rental doesn't allow pets, so they dropped it off at my mom's house for her to take care of until they move into a rental that allows dogs.  But of course, they can't give my mom any money toward the dog food because they are broke and can barely feed their own kids.  I honestly can't understand their logic at all: they can't feed their 3 kids without government assistance, they can't house their kids without assistance, they have another kid on the way, and they blow $1000 on a damn dog they can't afford to feed either.

HOLY SHIT!!! So.much.stupid all packed into one little story. Poor dog:(

[Adventine]

My brother and SIL are a single income family, living off part-time minimum wage hours, and receive subsidized housing and food stamps.  They also recently found out their 4th child is on the way.  Apparently they filed their taxes at one of those pop-up shops that will give you your refund upfront (along with an exorbitant fee) and used it to buy a husky puppy that cost $1000.  After taking it home they learned their rental doesn't allow pets, so they dropped it off at my mom's house for her to take care of until they move into a rental that allows dogs.  But of course, they can't give my mom any money toward the dog food because they are broke and can barely feed their own kids.  I honestly can't understand their logic at all: they can't feed their 3 kids without government assistance, they can't house their kids without assistance, they have another kid on the way, and they blow $1000 on a damn dog they can't afford to feed either.

HOLY SHIT!!! So.much.stupid all packed into one little story. Poor dog:(

My thoughts exactly...