Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3463660 times)

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6800 on: March 31, 2022, 03:13:25 AM »
I had a close family friend when i was growing up who was a fiction writer.  She published several books, one of which won a top literary prize.  None were bestsellers but they did ok.  However, throughout her life she had a full time job on top of her writing to pay the bills.  When I knew her she taught creative writing workshops at various universities and summer programs.  When she was younger she had worked as a journalist.

Anyway, the fact that she's turned down decent jobs is pretty telling.  Unfortunately, your mother may have to throw her out of the basement.  Maybe she and your step father could downsize to a place with no room for her?

former player

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6801 on: March 31, 2022, 03:34:06 AM »
A friend of a relative of mine wrote a novel while working full time as a schoolteacher and raising two children.  After a slow start of a couple of years it turned into a book you have certainly heard of and probably read at school.   At that stage they could afford to stop working as a teacher and write full time.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6802 on: April 18, 2022, 09:13:03 AM »
*sigh* Some of my in-laws came to visit this past weekend, and we had an absolute blast.  But at lunch one day, the subject of investing came up, and it turns out that some of them are investing via Edward Jones.  And a few of the extended family are actual EJ agents/reps/whatever they're called.  It led to a decent conversation about fees and such, and they admitted they weren't super well-educated on it.  Here's hoping they'll see the light and jump ship.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6803 on: April 18, 2022, 09:18:23 AM »
*sigh* Some of my in-laws came to visit this past weekend, and we had an absolute blast.  But at lunch one day, the subject of investing came up, and it turns out that some of them are investing via Edward Jones.  And a few of the extended family are actual EJ agents/reps/whatever they're called.  It led to a decent conversation about fees and such, and they admitted they weren't super well-educated on it.  Here's hoping they'll see the light and jump ship.
I'd think the "not super well educated on it" are the EJ reps of the bunch . . .

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6804 on: April 18, 2022, 01:15:42 PM »
*sigh* Some of my in-laws came to visit this past weekend, and we had an absolute blast.  But at lunch one day, the subject of investing came up, and it turns out that some of them are investing via Edward Jones.  And a few of the extended family are actual EJ agents/reps/whatever they're called.  It led to a decent conversation about fees and such, and they admitted they weren't super well-educated on it.  Here's hoping they'll see the light and jump ship.

... A sub-optimal plan started today that you can stick with vs continued inaction...

Not defending high fees and probably would not recommend them

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6805 on: April 18, 2022, 03:05:27 PM »
*sigh* Some of my in-laws came to visit this past weekend, and we had an absolute blast.  But at lunch one day, the subject of investing came up, and it turns out that some of them are investing via Edward Jones.  And a few of the extended family are actual EJ agents/reps/whatever they're called.  It led to a decent conversation about fees and such, and they admitted they weren't super well-educated on it.  Here's hoping they'll see the light and jump ship.

... A sub-optimal plan started today that you can stick with vs continued inaction...

Not defending high fees and probably would not recommend them
Oh, by doing *any* investing, they're ahead of the average, sure.  But they could be doing SO much better with just about anybody.

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6806 on: May 10, 2022, 08:15:28 AM »
Coming in hot with my annual rant about my in-laws gift giving culture.

Drives me absolutely nuts. EVERY person gets EVERY person a gift for EVERY holiday. So, for example, for mothers day, every mother got every other mother potted plants. It was like a damn florist's shop.

This extrapolates to birthdays, Christmases, Father's day, Easter. My wife spends probably 1.5-2.5k per year on gifts for family members. Christmas is a orgy of gift-giving, with literally 20-30 gifts per person.

I long ago decided that trying to stop this was a hill not worth dying on (as gift giving is a strong part of their familial love language), but I intend to seethe quietly about it in the background for the rest of my life and try to instill different values in my children. 

RainyDay

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6807 on: May 10, 2022, 09:33:31 AM »
I have relatives who refinance their house to pay off large sums of credit card debt.  While it's better to be paying a lower interest rate than the credit cards carry, they don't seem to realize that this is keeping them poor in the long run.  Twice they have re-financed the house to pay over $100k in credit card debt.  TWICE!  Lucky for them housing prices keep rising, but with increasing interest rates, this can't be a sustainable methodology.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6808 on: May 10, 2022, 10:02:37 PM »
Motherís Day brunch with the in-laws. The check comes.  DW points them to meÖ because as expected my tightwad multi-millionaire FIL wasnít going to pay. Heíd split it and pay their share, but pick up the check for everyone? No way. So I/we did.  And thatís okay.  Itís just funny.  Heís saved and saved and saved, and heís done it for so long, that he canít even be generous in those moments when (in my family at least) the ranking member would buy. Gotta love him. At least heís consistent.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6809 on: May 10, 2022, 10:50:37 PM »
Motherís Day brunch with the in-laws. The check comes.  DW points them to meÖ because as expected my tightwad multi-millionaire FIL wasnít going to pay. Heíd split it and pay their share, but pick up the check for everyone? No way. So I/we did.  And thatís okay.  Itís just funny.  Heís saved and saved and saved, and heís done it for so long, that he canít even be generous in those moments when (in my family at least) the ranking member would buy. Gotta love him. At least heís consistent.
It's a sickness of the soul when it's like that.    Sorry.   

Not to pick on your FIL in particular.   We all have (or had) relatives with bad issues.   My parents turned into terrible racists.

Hopefully my issues will remain at the "humorous foible" stage for our relatives, friends and associates.

That's assuming, of course, they aren't worse.  :(

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6810 on: May 10, 2022, 11:19:57 PM »
Theyíre actually super generous in many waysÖ but not for meals out.

gooki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6811 on: May 11, 2022, 12:24:57 AM »
I can understand how it's hard to change habits like that. I have to force myself not to be cheap and pay the whole bill. Thankfully the more I do it, the easier it becomes.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6812 on: May 11, 2022, 08:01:46 AM »
My Dad always picks up the bill, but he is a lousy tipper. He rounds down to the nearest ten before calculating 15%, then often rounds down again. So I have to have cash to top up the top.

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6813 on: May 11, 2022, 08:03:29 AM »
I have the opposite problem. I am ludicrously generous in public, often picking up the tab, etc. But, in private, I am crazy tightwad. Drives my DW crazy. :)

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6814 on: May 11, 2022, 08:48:46 AM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do. 

shureShote

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6815 on: May 11, 2022, 09:01:53 AM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do.

How did he ask you? Did he text or call you from the latest cellphone tech? Dive up to your place in a clown car?

I can't even imagine asking that question.

Hopefully he actually approached you with the proverbial hat in hand and had a plan all drawn out...but I doubt you would have posted it here is that was the case.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6816 on: May 11, 2022, 09:28:09 AM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do.

He;s obviously thinking you have less sense than you do.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6817 on: May 11, 2022, 09:29:46 AM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do.

How did he ask you? Did he text or call you from the latest cellphone tech? Dive up to your place in a clown car?

I can't even imagine asking that question.

Hopefully he actually approached you with the proverbial hat in hand and had a plan all drawn out...but I doubt you would have posted it here is that was the case.

No plan (that he mentioned...but the fact that he was asking for collateral rather than straight up cash means that some thought was put into it).  But there were tears.  He is an assistant bank manager, so I wonder if this is a matter of keeping his job or not.  I also wonder if maybe I shouldn't have mentioned to my parents (whom he lives with) that I just got a promotion.  I did offer to join a particular credit union so that he can get membership through me and get in on their 0% BT offer.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 09:32:18 AM by Sugaree »

sonofsven

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6818 on: May 11, 2022, 09:58:04 AM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do.

How did he ask you? Did he text or call you from the latest cellphone tech? Dive up to your place in a clown car?

I can't even imagine asking that question.

Hopefully he actually approached you with the proverbial hat in hand and had a plan all drawn out...but I doubt you would have posted it here is that was the case.

No plan (that he mentioned...but the fact that he was asking for collateral rather than straight up cash means that some thought was put into it).  But there were tears.  He is an assistant bank manager, so I wonder if this is a matter of keeping his job or not.  I also wonder if maybe I shouldn't have mentioned to my parents (whom he lives with) that I just got a promotion.  I did offer to join a particular credit union so that he can get membership through me and get in on their 0% BT offer.
Ironic that when one is in debt those good bt deals with 0% are near impossible to come by, but for those of us with good credit and low debt we have lots to choose from, but don't really need/want them.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6819 on: May 11, 2022, 10:01:20 AM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do.

How did he ask you? Did he text or call you from the latest cellphone tech? Dive up to your place in a clown car?

I can't even imagine asking that question.

Hopefully he actually approached you with the proverbial hat in hand and had a plan all drawn out...but I doubt you would have posted it here is that was the case.

No plan (that he mentioned...but the fact that he was asking for collateral rather than straight up cash means that some thought was put into it).  But there were tears.  He is an assistant bank manager, so I wonder if this is a matter of keeping his job or not.  I also wonder if maybe I shouldn't have mentioned to my parents (whom he lives with) that I just got a promotion.  I did offer to join a particular credit union so that he can get membership through me and get in on their 0% BT offer.
Ironic that when one is in debt those good bt deals with 0% are near impossible to come by, but for those of us with good credit and low debt we have lots to choose from, but don't really need/want them.

Sometimes being the responsible one sucks.  I didn't bother asking his score, but I know when my grandfather died he had a mid-high 700s score, but owed ~$40k on 13 different cards.  All of them were current so his score was high.  It's ironic that two people who grew up in the same house and watched the same situations unfold went in two separate directions when it comes to money.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2022, 10:04:20 AM by Sugaree »

shureShote

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6820 on: May 11, 2022, 01:06:50 PM »


Sometimes being the responsible one sucks.  I didn't bother asking his score, but I know when my grandfather died he had a mid-high 700s score, but owed ~$40k on 13 different cards.  All of them were current so his score was high.  It's ironic that two people who grew up in the same house and watched the same situations unfold went in two separate directions when it comes to money.

Yeah, I have a somewhat similar deal with a sibling, though at a much different level. I guess it depends not only on what you are are exposed to, but how you absorb it. Rereading that clearly shows what a keen eye for the obvious I have.

lemanfan

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6821 on: May 11, 2022, 01:21:55 PM »
Ironic that when one is in debt those good bt deals with 0% are near impossible to come by, but for those of us with good credit and low debt we have lots to choose from, but don't really need/want them.

It's the same everywhere.  In the company world it is similarly recommended that the time to get a line of credit from your bank is when you don't need it. 

charis

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6822 on: May 11, 2022, 01:28:37 PM »
My brother just asked to use my savings account as collateral on a secured loan to pay off credit cards.  To the tune of $25k.  He's obviously thinking I have more money than I do.

How did he ask you? Did he text or call you from the latest cellphone tech? Dive up to your place in a clown car?

I can't even imagine asking that question.

Hopefully he actually approached you with the proverbial hat in hand and had a plan all drawn out...but I doubt you would have posted it here is that was the case.

No plan (that he mentioned...but the fact that he was asking for collateral rather than straight up cash means that some thought was put into it).  But there were tears.  He is an assistant bank manager, so I wonder if this is a matter of keeping his job or not.  I also wonder if maybe I shouldn't have mentioned to my parents (whom he lives with) that I just got a promotion.  I did offer to join a particular credit union so that he can get membership through me and get in on their 0% BT offer.
Ironic that when one is in debt those good bt deals with 0% are near impossible to come by, but for those of us with good credit and low debt we have lots to choose from, but don't really need/want them.

Sometimes being the responsible one sucks.  I didn't bother asking his score, but I know when my grandfather died he had a mid-high 700s score, but owed ~$40k on 13 different cards.  All of them were current so his score was high.  It's ironic that two people who grew up in the same house and watched the same situations unfold went in two separate directions when it comes to money.

I'm in the same position in my family with my almost 40 year old mooch of a sibling who moved in with my elderly parents two years ago, shows no signs of moving out, and pays nothing toward the household expenses. I can't even believe I'm related to someone who thinks this is just fine to do.  I have no idea how much of my parents' retirement income has been wasted on my employed sibling, who thinks nothing of it.  Wtf

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6823 on: May 11, 2022, 03:16:28 PM »
Motherís Day brunch with the in-laws. The check comes.  DW points them to meÖ because as expected my tightwad multi-millionaire FIL wasnít going to pay. Heíd split it and pay their share, but pick up the check for everyone? No way. So I/we did.  And thatís okay.  Itís just funny.  Heís saved and saved and saved, and heís done it for so long, that he canít even be generous in those moments when (in my family at least) the ranking member would buy. Gotta love him. At least heís consistent.

It can go too far the other way too. My wife and I make way more than our in-laws and they insist on paying for everything, every time.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6824 on: May 11, 2022, 03:25:50 PM »
Motherís Day brunch with the in-laws. The check comes.  DW points them to meÖ because as expected my tightwad multi-millionaire FIL wasnít going to pay. Heíd split it and pay their share, but pick up the check for everyone? No way. So I/we did.  And thatís okay.  Itís just funny.  Heís saved and saved and saved, and heís done it for so long, that he canít even be generous in those moments when (in my family at least) the ranking member would buy. Gotta love him. At least heís consistent.

It can go too far the other way too. My wife and I make way more than our in-laws and they insist on paying for everything, every time.

My grandfather, who was an original millionaire-next-door type, before he died, often WOULD pay for everyone in his role as the patriarch. He was very generous with education funding. And for entertainment, not just dinner- like, plane tickets so everyone could come vacation together at a beach house. But even on the same vacation that he had already sunk thousands of dollars into, he was visibly more relaxed at the restaurant if he knew someone else was picking up the check! The habits of a lifetime can be hard to break.

jeninco

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6825 on: May 11, 2022, 05:53:10 PM »
Motherís Day brunch with the in-laws. The check comes.  DW points them to meÖ because as expected my tightwad multi-millionaire FIL wasnít going to pay. Heíd split it and pay their share, but pick up the check for everyone? No way. So I/we did.  And thatís okay.  Itís just funny.  Heís saved and saved and saved, and heís done it for so long, that he canít even be generous in those moments when (in my family at least) the ranking member would buy. Gotta love him. At least heís consistent.

It can go too far the other way too. My wife and I make way more than our in-laws and they insist on paying for everything, every time.

My grandfather, who was an original millionaire-next-door type, before he died, often WOULD pay for everyone in his role as the patriarch. He was very generous with education funding. And for entertainment, not just dinner- like, plane tickets so everyone could come vacation together at a beach house. But even on the same vacation that he had already sunk thousands of dollars into, he was visibly more relaxed at the restaurant if he knew someone else was picking up the check! The habits of a lifetime can be hard to break.

I started picking up the check when I realized that our family of four was eating substantially more than the other folks at the table (and we could afford it). Since I'm obviously not the eldest, and am female, I started out doing it by "going to the restroom" and finding our server and handing them my CC. (This after I had a couple of arguments with various grand-male-types, which I lost graciously.) It's gotten to the point where my now-young-adult-kids look at me meaningfully when we're getting to the end of the meal...

The thing is, we can afford it, and we're happy to pick it up. Our monthly income is almost certainly higher...

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6826 on: May 11, 2022, 09:16:43 PM »
I learned the bathroom trip credit card sleigh of hand from my husband. In Chinese culture it turns into a friendly fight over who will get the bill, so he learned early on to be sneaky to win.

charis

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6827 on: May 12, 2022, 07:20:48 AM »
Motherís Day brunch with the in-laws. The check comes.  DW points them to meÖ because as expected my tightwad multi-millionaire FIL wasnít going to pay. Heíd split it and pay their share, but pick up the check for everyone? No way. So I/we did.  And thatís okay.  Itís just funny.  Heís saved and saved and saved, and heís done it for so long, that he canít even be generous in those moments when (in my family at least) the ranking member would buy. Gotta love him. At least heís consistent.

It can go too far the other way too. My wife and I make way more than our in-laws and they insist on paying for everything, every time.

My grandfather, who was an original millionaire-next-door type, before he died, often WOULD pay for everyone in his role as the patriarch. He was very generous with education funding. And for entertainment, not just dinner- like, plane tickets so everyone could come vacation together at a beach house. But even on the same vacation that he had already sunk thousands of dollars into, he was visibly more relaxed at the restaurant if he knew someone else was picking up the check! The habits of a lifetime can be hard to break.

I started picking up the check when I realized that our family of four was eating substantially more than the other folks at the table (and we could afford it). Since I'm obviously not the eldest, and am female, I started out doing it by "going to the restroom" and finding our server and handing them my CC. (This after I had a couple of arguments with various grand-male-types, which I lost graciously.) It's gotten to the point where my now-young-adult-kids look at me meaningfully when we're getting to the end of the meal...

The thing is, we can afford it, and we're happy to pick it up. Our monthly income is almost certainly higher...

My parents still pay if they invite us out to dinner. We frequently decline because we don't feel comfortable with them paying but we also cannot drop $150 for six dinners on a regular basis. Technically we can "afford" it but we are also saving to college and don't enjoy restaurant meals with our kids. We almost never go out to eat as a family of 4 as it is.  I try to suggest eating in but they are retired and don't really like to cook. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6828 on: May 12, 2022, 07:42:12 AM »
I try to suggest eating in but they are retired and don't really like to cook.

Think how many dinners your mother has cooked over the years!  At some point I expect to really enjoy moving into a senior's residence with good food so I don't have to cook any more.    ;-)

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6829 on: May 12, 2022, 07:53:28 AM »
We know a couple that eats the vast majority of their meals out. They have also offered to hook us up with their Guy.

My parents eat out quite a bit. They were a bit surprised when we went on a road trip and I had meals and snacks ready to heat and eat right in the hotel room (the microwave scampi shrimp turned out amazing, BTW) so we only ate lunch out each day.

RainyDay

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6830 on: May 12, 2022, 07:54:44 AM »

Think how many dinners your mother has cooked over the years!  At some point I expect to really enjoy moving into a senior's residence with good food so I don't have to cook any more.    ;-)

Same!  For people who don't especially like to cook, making meals is a daily grind.  In fact, my own mother's primary motivation for moving into a retirement community is so she doesn't have to plan and prepare meals every day. 

charis

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6831 on: May 12, 2022, 10:03:48 AM »
I try to suggest eating in but they are retired and don't really like to cook.

Think how many dinners your mother has cooked over the years!  At some point I expect to really enjoy moving into a senior's residence with good food so I don't have to cook any more.    ;-)

That's totally fair - I offer to cook when I suggest this - but I guess my point is that we can't pick up the tab because they want to share a meal but don't like to eat at home (ours or theirs). I am mostly over it, but there was a point before the pandemic where they wanted to eat out with us once a week and I felt bad both declining and guilty letting them pay. It's a total mismatch of priorities.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2022, 10:05:37 AM by charis »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6832 on: May 12, 2022, 06:36:31 PM »
I try to suggest eating in but they are retired and don't really like to cook.

Think how many dinners your mother has cooked over the years!  At some point I expect to really enjoy moving into a senior's residence with good food so I don't have to cook any more.    ;-)

That's totally fair - I offer to cook when I suggest this - but I guess my point is that we can't pick up the tab because they want to share a meal but don't like to eat at home (ours or theirs). I am mostly over it, but there was a point before the pandemic where they wanted to eat out with us once a week and I felt bad both declining and guilty letting them pay. It's a total mismatch of priorities.

Once a week is a bit much.  I ate out once a month with my theatre group (pre-Covid, we rode a bus for an hour plus, then we ate, then we went to the treatre) and that was plenty.

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6833 on: May 12, 2022, 08:22:46 PM »
My parents still pay if they invite us out to dinner. We frequently decline because we don't feel comfortable with them paying but we also cannot drop $150 for six dinners on a regular basis. Technically we can "afford" it but we are also saving to college and don't enjoy restaurant meals with our kids. We almost never go out to eat as a family of 4 as it is.  I try to suggest eating in but they are retired and don't really like to cook.

The in-laws have us over for dinner every week or two.  We definitely come out ahead in the deal, even if we pay for the occasional meal out.  It's just funny.

What makes it so interesting is they have this all money, but instead of going out and enjoying themselves with some frivolous things that might cost a few bucks, they're tight.  Each year they've done one big thing like new truck, new roof, new siding, new kitchen.  Next is new bathrooms.  (Keep in mind these are on a 50+ year-old house that they've been in 35 years with few changes, or replacing a 20y-year-old truck.)  So, tens of thousands of well spent money.  But dinner out?  Nope!
Gotta love them!

They have what they have because they're mustachian.  Older, well cared for house.  Decent cars that they keep forever.  Careful saving over decades.  Retired in their mid to late 50's.  They have enough to be a little more relaxed now, but mustachian habits die hard.  Beware, mustachians!  Or, be inspired?

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6834 on: May 12, 2022, 08:28:33 PM »
My parents still pay if they invite us out to dinner. We frequently decline because we don't feel comfortable with them paying but we also cannot drop $150 for six dinners on a regular basis. Technically we can "afford" it but we are also saving to college and don't enjoy restaurant meals with our kids. We almost never go out to eat as a family of 4 as it is.  I try to suggest eating in but they are retired and don't really like to cook.

The in-laws have us over for dinner every week or two.  We definitely come out ahead in the deal, even if we pay for the occasional meal out.  It's just funny.

What makes it so interesting is they have this all money, but instead of going out and enjoying themselves with some frivolous things that might cost a few bucks, they're tight.  Each year they've done one big thing like new truck, new roof, new siding, new kitchen.  Next is new bathrooms.  (Keep in mind these are on a 50+ year-old house that they've been in 35 years with few changes, or replacing a 20y-year-old truck.)  So, tens of thousands of well spent money.  But dinner out?  Nope!
Gotta love them!

They have what they have because they're mustachian.  Older, well cared for house.  Decent cars that they keep forever.  Careful saving over decades.  Retired in their mid to late 50's.  They have enough to be a little more relaxed now, but mustachian habits die hard.  Beware, mustachians!  Or, be inspired?

I'm old and retired, and I am still frugal.  I have loosened the purse strings a bit, but old habits die hard and having fun by spending money just doesn't work any more.  And we are all saving up for the really nice (=expensive) seniors residences and nursing homes.   ;-)

Sandi_k

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6835 on: May 12, 2022, 11:01:00 PM »

The in-laws have us over for dinner every week or two.  We definitely come out ahead in the deal, even if we pay for the occasional meal out.  It's just funny.

What makes it so interesting is they have this all money, but instead of going out and enjoying themselves with some frivolous things that might cost a few bucks, they're tight.  Each year they've done one big thing like new truck, new roof, new siding, new kitchen.  Next is new bathrooms.  (Keep in mind these are on a 50+ year-old house that they've been in 35 years with few changes, or replacing a 20y-year-old truck.)  So, tens of thousands of well spent money.  But dinner out?  Nope!
Gotta love them!

They have what they have because they're mustachian.  Older, well cared for house.  Decent cars that they keep forever.  Careful saving over decades.  Retired in their mid to late 50's.  They have enough to be a little more relaxed now, but mustachian habits die hard.  Beware, mustachians!  Or, be inspired?

This is my ILs. Sitting on hundreds of thousands in cash in the bank, and a piece of property worth $4M or so. But eating out? Tipping? Replacing faucets that are corroded after 35 years of crappy hard water? Noooooo!

Seriously - their kitchen faucet cr*pped out, and FIL decided he could replace a part rather than the whole assembly. But it was a Grohe faucet, and the parts were ordered from Europe. It took ~ 4 weeks to get the part, so in the interim, my 80 year old MIL washed dishes in the bathroom.

Nope, nuh-uh. When I get to be that age, buy a $150 Home Depot faucet, homey. Sandi don't play that.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6836 on: May 13, 2022, 05:13:37 AM »

The in-laws have us over for dinner every week or two.  We definitely come out ahead in the deal, even if we pay for the occasional meal out.  It's just funny.

What makes it so interesting is they have this all money, but instead of going out and enjoying themselves with some frivolous things that might cost a few bucks, they're tight.  Each year they've done one big thing like new truck, new roof, new siding, new kitchen.  Next is new bathrooms.  (Keep in mind these are on a 50+ year-old house that they've been in 35 years with few changes, or replacing a 20y-year-old truck.)  So, tens of thousands of well spent money.  But dinner out?  Nope!
Gotta love them!

They have what they have because they're mustachian.  Older, well cared for house.  Decent cars that they keep forever.  Careful saving over decades.  Retired in their mid to late 50's.  They have enough to be a little more relaxed now, but mustachian habits die hard.  Beware, mustachians!  Or, be inspired?

This is my ILs. Sitting on hundreds of thousands in cash in the bank, and a piece of property worth $4M or so. But eating out? Tipping? Replacing faucets that are corroded after 35 years of crappy hard water? Noooooo!

Seriously - their kitchen faucet cr*pped out, and FIL decided he could replace a part rather than the whole assembly. But it was a Grohe faucet, and the parts were ordered from Europe. It took ~ 4 weeks to get the part, so in the interim, my 80 year old MIL washed dishes in the bathroom.

Nope, nuh-uh. When I get to be that age, buy a $150 Home Depot faucet, homey. Sandi don't play that.

That's not frugal, that is miserly.   Frugal is noticing that the faucet is aging and replacing it before it dies so no time pressure.  Also, no skin off his nose, it's his wife that is paying the price.  Not impressed.

Sandi_k

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6837 on: May 13, 2022, 10:07:59 AM »

The in-laws have us over for dinner every week or two.  We definitely come out ahead in the deal, even if we pay for the occasional meal out.  It's just funny.

What makes it so interesting is they have this all money, but instead of going out and enjoying themselves with some frivolous things that might cost a few bucks, they're tight.  Each year they've done one big thing like new truck, new roof, new siding, new kitchen.  Next is new bathrooms.  (Keep in mind these are on a 50+ year-old house that they've been in 35 years with few changes, or replacing a 20y-year-old truck.)  So, tens of thousands of well spent money.  But dinner out?  Nope!
Gotta love them!

They have what they have because they're mustachian.  Older, well cared for house.  Decent cars that they keep forever.  Careful saving over decades.  Retired in their mid to late 50's.  They have enough to be a little more relaxed now, but mustachian habits die hard.  Beware, mustachians!  Or, be inspired?

This is my ILs. Sitting on hundreds of thousands in cash in the bank, and a piece of property worth $4M or so. But eating out? Tipping? Replacing faucets that are corroded after 35 years of crappy hard water? Noooooo!

Seriously - their kitchen faucet cr*pped out, and FIL decided he could replace a part rather than the whole assembly. But it was a Grohe faucet, and the parts were ordered from Europe. It took ~ 4 weeks to get the part, so in the interim, my 80 year old MIL washed dishes in the bathroom.

Nope, nuh-uh. When I get to be that age, buy a $150 Home Depot faucet, homey. Sandi don't play that.

That's not frugal, that is miserly.   Frugal is noticing that the faucet is aging and replacing it before it dies so no time pressure.  Also, no skin off his nose, it's his wife that is paying the price.  Not impressed.

I agree on the "tipped over into miserly land." The problem is that she *agreed* with the choice.

DH and I have full veto authority; the ILs have a relationship where FIL merely avoids the conversation, and so a plan is never made.

That happened with replacing toilets for YEARS in their house. I told my MIL that I give a warning: "This is not working, and if we don't have a rational discussion to reach a mutual decision within the next 2 weeks, I will make an Executive Decision myself." It allows my indecisive DH some time to think it through - but we don't wait for years to make a decision.

Such a weird dynamic...

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6838 on: May 21, 2022, 01:40:04 PM »
I have relatives who refinance their house to pay off large sums of credit card debt.  While it's better to be paying a lower interest rate than the credit cards carry, they don't seem to realize that this is keeping them poor in the long run.  Twice they have re-financed the house to pay over $100k in credit card debt.  TWICE!  Lucky for them housing prices keep rising, but with increasing interest rates, this can't be a sustainable methodology.

I know someone that did this several (?) times and are now 80+ years old and still paying a mortgage. And their two year old old car is getting pretty long in the tooth now. Now talking about two new cars soon, perhaps.

DW and I decided it might be all about something to look forward to but at the same time, their equity and savings would determine the quality of their care in assisted living at some point. We know what state assisted elder care looks like here. An old motel renovated into scruffy apartments. Cafeteria food served in styrofoam clamshell containers. NO THANKS.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2022, 02:08:50 PM by Just Joe »

mgardner88

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6839 on: June 08, 2022, 09:59:29 AM »
First post on this thread but my ILs belong on here and have for as long as I've known them. For the record my parents do too but that's a whole other post. My MIL came over the other day to tell us that FIL had bought a brand new 2022 truck. Yay for them! He just recently got a government (read: county, low paying) job like 2 months ago. Hes bounced around from job to job for the last several years not being happy with this or that and quitting. He has usable skills so can get hired pretty easily. They complain constantly how no one can get ahead in this state (CA) and because they arent homeless or illegal they cant get any help.. ironically she works an under the table physically taxing job that has no retirement or health insurance. They live in a family members property in an outbuilding that they pay very little in rent for. This is also not the first brand new car they have bought this year. MIL also bought a brand new SUV at the beginning of the year. So shes telling us about his new truck and complains about how no one can afford to live here, and now they especially cant find a place to live (because of more than $1000 in car payments per month!!) These are the same people that only buy premium choice cuts of meat because it tastes better and they deserve quality, name brand everything because generic is not the same, and refuse to shop at several places because they dont like the people that shop there (low income people). For the longest time i thought it was just sheer ignorance but at what point is it self sabotage? I think we are well into self sabotage territory and it blows my mind.

ATtiny85

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6840 on: June 14, 2022, 06:20:44 AM »
First post on this thread but my ILs belong on here and have for as long as I've known them. For the record my parents do too but that's a whole other post. My MIL came over the other day to tell us that FIL had bought a brand new 2022 truck. Yay for them! He just recently got a government (read: county, low paying) job like 2 months ago. Hes bounced around from job to job for the last several years not being happy with this or that and quitting. He has usable skills so can get hired pretty easily. They complain constantly how no one can get ahead in this state (CA) and because they arent homeless or illegal they cant get any help.. ironically she works an under the table physically taxing job that has no retirement or health insurance. They live in a family members property in an outbuilding that they pay very little in rent for. This is also not the first brand new car they have bought this year. MIL also bought a brand new SUV at the beginning of the year. So shes telling us about his new truck and complains about how no one can afford to live here, and now they especially cant find a place to live (because of more than $1000 in car payments per month!!) These are the same people that only buy premium choice cuts of meat because it tastes better and they deserve quality, name brand everything because generic is not the same, and refuse to shop at several places because they dont like the people that shop there (low income people). For the longest time i thought it was just sheer ignorance but at what point is it self sabotage? I think we are well into self sabotage territory and it blows my mind.

Quite the couple. Be sure they donít end up in your backyard! Hopefully your partner sees them the same. Self destructing family is a tough topic.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6841 on: June 14, 2022, 08:55:48 AM »

The in-laws have us over for dinner every week or two.  We definitely come out ahead in the deal, even if we pay for the occasional meal out.  It's just funny.

What makes it so interesting is they have this all money, but instead of going out and enjoying themselves with some frivolous things that might cost a few bucks, they're tight.  Each year they've done one big thing like new truck, new roof, new siding, new kitchen.  Next is new bathrooms.  (Keep in mind these are on a 50+ year-old house that they've been in 35 years with few changes, or replacing a 20y-year-old truck.)  So, tens of thousands of well spent money.  But dinner out?  Nope!
Gotta love them!

They have what they have because they're mustachian.  Older, well cared for house.  Decent cars that they keep forever.  Careful saving over decades.  Retired in their mid to late 50's.  They have enough to be a little more relaxed now, but mustachian habits die hard.  Beware, mustachians!  Or, be inspired?

This is my ILs. Sitting on hundreds of thousands in cash in the bank, and a piece of property worth $4M or so. But eating out? Tipping? Replacing faucets that are corroded after 35 years of crappy hard water? Noooooo!

Seriously - their kitchen faucet cr*pped out, and FIL decided he could replace a part rather than the whole assembly. But it was a Grohe faucet, and the parts were ordered from Europe. It took ~ 4 weeks to get the part, so in the interim, my 80 year old MIL washed dishes in the bathroom.

Nope, nuh-uh. When I get to be that age, buy a $150 Home Depot faucet, homey. Sandi don't play that.

That's not frugal, that is miserly.   Frugal is noticing that the faucet is aging and replacing it before it dies so no time pressure.  Also, no skin off his nose, it's his wife that is paying the price.  Not impressed.

I agree on the "tipped over into miserly land." The problem is that she *agreed* with the choice.

DH and I have full veto authority; the ILs have a relationship where FIL merely avoids the conversation, and so a plan is never made.

That happened with replacing toilets for YEARS in their house. I told my MIL that I give a warning: "This is not working, and if we don't have a rational discussion to reach a mutual decision within the next 2 weeks, I will make an Executive Decision myself." It allows my indecisive DH some time to think it through - but we don't wait for years to make a decision.

Such a weird dynamic...

Unfortunately this is my parents too.  They're divorced and live in different areas but they have this in common.  My dad (in his 80s) renovated his place in 1980.  It's now probably worth millions due to its location (NYC).  He has one bathroom and until recently a fridge from the 1950s that was left in the apartment by the previous people back in the 70s and an extremely crappy kitchen.  Step mother begged him to pay for a kitchen reno so he finally reluctantly agreed (and now can't stop talking about how much it cost) but it was the cheapo IKEA stuff and he flat our refused to get a dishwasher as he thinks it's "wasteful" (step mother does the dishes so...)  They do eat out quite a lot though so at least there's that. 

I'm currently working on him to get a cleaning person.  Step mother is getting older (in her 60s) and she still has to do all the cleaning.  But he completely baulked at the "crazy" price.  Oh well, not my monkeys I guess.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2022, 08:57:44 AM by Hula Hoop »

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6842 on: June 14, 2022, 10:03:18 AM »
On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.


That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

During our weekly phone call last night, I learned that he expects to be reduced to a 40 hour limit, which would effectively reduce his pay by half. He's already looking into getting a deferment on his truck loan.

The saga continues!

As previously mentioned, my father got a new motorcycle sometime around January/February. He had a motorcycle previously that hadn't run in years (2005 touring bike with ~100k miles). He decided to give the old bike to my step-sister's fiance (we'll just call him Jon). Jon was supposed to get the bike fixed, get a motorcycle license, get the bike registered in his name, and get the bike insured.

Instead, Jon got the bike fixed and was riding the bike without a license, uninsured, and with expired registration still in my father's name. Jon is a pilot, so you'd think that he has some common sense, but apparently that's not the case. While taking a curve too fast, he drifted out of his lane and hit a pickup.

Jon miraculously didn't die, though he has a handful of broken bones and a lot of road rash. However, now we have to wonder how this is all going to play out financially. The pickup will probably be written off as totaled, and I'm sure this could come back on my father, as the bike was still legally his property. Jon can probably afford to pay for the pickup with his income, but who knows what else is going to come of this?

I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.

My father is the story that just keeps giving.

He rode his motorcycle halfway across the country to see us for a couple days, so I got to spend some time talking...well, listening. I try to bite my tongue to keep the wife happy.

I was under the impression that the RV (see bold above) was supposed to be part of his eventual retirement plan. Now he is planning on getting it next year. In fact, it's actually the reason he got his truck, apparently. So that'll be a truck, motorcycle, and RV all within a couple years.

But wait, there's more!

He's also planning on expanding his front porch, despite the facts that: 1) he already has a back porch, and 2) the wind in West Texas makes being in front of the house unpleasant fairly often, while the back porch is shielded from wind by the house. His reasoning? On the back porch, their view is just the fence. If they had a porch in front of the house, they would have a view of...fields, which are dirt most of the year anyway.

Update!

My father called me a few days ago and told me that he has a buyer for the RV. Since he only bought it nine months or so ago, I was surprised and asked why. "Because we don't have time to use it." Yeah, because you're so busy working to make all of your payments.

But hey, he already has a buyer, and he's selling the RV for more than he paid (at least up front - I'm sure they've sunk money into it in the past nine months that he isn't accounting for). The buyer even sent a check for earnest money, and for some reason he sent more than he said he would...

If you're familiar with buying and selling on Craigslist, then you probably know where this is going.

A couple days later, the buyer contacts my father and asks if my father can refund the extra portion of the earnest money that was sent by mistake. Yeah, just send a money order for the extra few thousand dollars.

Thankfully, my father realized that something was off by then. He asked the bank to hold the check and let him know whether or not it clears and is not sending anything back.

My father still holds out hope that it's not a scam and that the buyer will be by to inspect the RV in the next couple days. However, the RV that he hoped was sold is now not sold.

It's been over a year without a follow-up...my how the time flies!

My father, who has all kinds of debt and has told me that he just plans to work until he dies may be in for an unfortunate awakening. When getting a regular checkup at his doctor a few months ago, he was told that he had a hernia that needed to be dealt with. When he went in for that surgery, they found that his oxygen levels were dangerously low. It turns out that he had pneumonia (for the second time since 2020). Once that was taken care of, he finally got surgery for the hernia. During physical therapy following that, his back went out. He hasn't been physically able to work for something like two months now.

As far as I know, he's getting disability, but it's nowhere close to what he was making while working, and he has been able to get moratoriums on vehicle and mortgage payments. However, I guess that I should start planning to be his retirement plan.

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6843 on: June 14, 2022, 11:14:44 AM »
It's been over a year without a follow-up...my how the time flies!

My father, who has all kinds of debt and has told me that he just plans to work until he dies may be in for an unfortunate awakening. When getting a regular checkup at his doctor a few months ago, he was told that he had a hernia that needed to be dealt with. When he went in for that surgery, they found that his oxygen levels were dangerously low. It turns out that he had pneumonia (for the second time since 2020). Once that was taken care of, he finally got surgery for the hernia. During physical therapy following that, his back went out. He hasn't been physically able to work for something like two months now.

As far as I know, he's getting disability, but it's nowhere close to what he was making while working, and he has been able to get moratoriums on vehicle and mortgage payments. However, I guess that I should start planning to be his retirement plan.

No, you start researching how to help him sell all the vehicles, properties, and excess crap and downsize into something that he can afford on his reduced income. If he refuses to do so, then you make sure he's got food in the fridge and leave him to stew in the consequences of his actions until he wises up. Foreclosures take a while, so you don't need to worry about him being homeless until then.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6844 on: June 14, 2022, 01:27:45 PM »
The work until you die plan rarely works. He may be able to qualify for low income senior housing but the waiting list is usually a year or two. It depends on if he has any money left once he sells the house and pays his debt. Thereís lots of services for seniors which you can help him find.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6845 on: June 14, 2022, 02:48:33 PM »
You might want to check your town as far as taxes go. Seniors with low income may be eligible to reduce their town taxes on their home depending on income. I did this for my Mom and had to bring her IRS tax form to the Town Hall to let them see if she met the income qualifications. Each state, city and town are different so no idea what reduction you might get. But everything helps a little. I actually did this for one year when Mr. Roadrunner retired and our income was low that year. The following year we had too much income to qualify.

Unfortunately, my Mom was eligible for many years but we didn't know about it. Seems like they put tiny blurbs in senior publications and do not really advertise it is available. Which is a shame because my Mom could have used that extra income rather than pay taxes.

Do not delay because in my town the paperwork had to be done by April or May. No idea what other towns demand.

SunnyDays

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6846 on: June 14, 2022, 07:00:42 PM »
It's been over a year without a follow-up...my how the time flies!

My father, who has all kinds of debt and has told me that he just plans to work until he dies may be in for an unfortunate awakening. When getting a regular checkup at his doctor a few months ago, he was told that he had a hernia that needed to be dealt with. When he went in for that surgery, they found that his oxygen levels were dangerously low. It turns out that he had pneumonia (for the second time since 2020). Once that was taken care of, he finally got surgery for the hernia. During physical therapy following that, his back went out. He hasn't been physically able to work for something like two months now.

As far as I know, he's getting disability, but it's nowhere close to what he was making while working, and he has been able to get moratoriums on vehicle and mortgage payments. However, I guess that I should start planning to be his retirement plan.

No, you start researching how to help him sell all the vehicles, properties, and excess crap and downsize into something that he can afford on his reduced income. If he refuses to do so, then you make sure he's got food in the fridge and leave him to stew in the consequences of his actions until he wises up. Foreclosures take a while, so you don't need to worry about him being homeless until then.

Exactly.  And for the food, there is the food bank.

Don't reward bad behaviour.  This is not your problem.

mgardner88

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6847 on: June 15, 2022, 07:55:46 AM »
First post on this thread but my ILs belong on here and have for as long as I've known them. For the record my parents do too but that's a whole other post. My MIL came over the other day to tell us that FIL had bought a brand new 2022 truck. Yay for them! He just recently got a government (read: county, low paying) job like 2 months ago. Hes bounced around from job to job for the last several years not being happy with this or that and quitting. He has usable skills so can get hired pretty easily. They complain constantly how no one can get ahead in this state (CA) and because they arent homeless or illegal they cant get any help.. ironically she works an under the table physically taxing job that has no retirement or health insurance. They live in a family members property in an outbuilding that they pay very little in rent for. This is also not the first brand new car they have bought this year. MIL also bought a brand new SUV at the beginning of the year. So shes telling us about his new truck and complains about how no one can afford to live here, and now they especially cant find a place to live (because of more than $1000 in car payments per month!!) These are the same people that only buy premium choice cuts of meat because it tastes better and they deserve quality, name brand everything because generic is not the same, and refuse to shop at several places because they dont like the people that shop there (low income people). For the longest time i thought it was just sheer ignorance but at what point is it self sabotage? I think we are well into self sabotage territory and it blows my mind.

Quite the couple. Be sure they donít end up in your backyard! Hopefully your partner sees them the same. Self destructing family is a tough topic.

They really bring out the worst (for money at least) in each other. Yes this parasitic behavior has been going on forever, they lived with us for a few months several years ago. Never again. We are on the same page with that thankfully.

onehair

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6848 on: June 16, 2022, 01:36:17 PM »
A few pages back I lightly complained about my sister and her Awesome Con addiction plus her lack of a job bum boyfriend and spending habits.  My mom swore she wasn't coming this year because it was exhausting. It is.  So I said I'd go to chaperone my sister and maybe get her side of the story minus Mommy Dearest.  I bought my ticket and waited.  Lo and behold my mom changes her mind and goes this year, causing me a little teeth gnashing since I hadn't planned to do anything with my hair or dress up. For the record I only got it simply braided and wore my old Green Lantern t shirt So we all meet outside and when my sister flits off the first time I asked why she came.  Says my sister talked her into it.  I nearly laughed but decided I liked living.  Anyway I ran into a dear friend took no celebrity photos and only indulged in a good t shirt deal 3 for $36 and something to eat so I wouldn't go grocery shopping hungry later on.  My sister purchased two celebrity photos plus bought various little items then disappeared since she brought her laptop to write.  My mom vented more about her not actively job hunting, that the electric bill has gone up since she stays on her laptop, that the bum boyfriend is bummier than ever etc....
I am dreading next year's Awesome Con if my mom tags along...

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6849 on: September 04, 2022, 09:31:35 AM »
In the continued saga of my brother/parents, my parents are attempting to pawn off their unintentional boarder on me.  The backstory here is that about two years ago, my brother, SIL, and their roommate (plus 4 dogs) moved in with my parents because brother/SIL were having trouble keeping up with various payments.  Roommate moved out for awhile and then moved back in after breaking up with boyfriend and getting disowned by her parents.  Brother and SIL moved out recently, leaving roommate and her dog with mom and dad.  Dad has now approached both DH and I about letting her move into our rental property.  First, I already know that she doesn't consistently pay rent to mom and dad because mom let that slip months ago.  Second, I've already had this conversation with SIL and they asked for a rent discount and whether utilities were included (on a 3/2 SFH for $650/month).  I'm not touching that with a 10 foot pole.  In fact, we now have a standing No Friends Or Family policy for tenants
« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 09:33:14 AM by Sugaree »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!