Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3043286 times)

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6600 on: December 20, 2021, 08:16:08 AM »
I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't generally follow celebrity news, and I select articles from the sources I do use (NYT, WaPo, BBC, Google News) - I just don't have interest in much "celebrity" stuff, so I generally just don't see it. The only recentish celebrity news I remember is an actor accidentally shooting someone on set, and beyond that it took me awhile to remember it was a Baldwin. Alex? Alec? Something like that. If I watch clips from some late-night talk show, I often don't recognize the famous people at all.

Now all that said:

Dolly Parton is an exception, shes just an awesome person - even if she's not really in the news anymore.

Ryan Reynolds is an exception. He's a national treasure and the perfect choice for Deadpool.

I am generally aware of the Kardashians branched out beyond reality TV and some have amassed a financial empire. Can't tell you which ones.

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

But had be been ever so slightly more sane, he had Musk's endorsement, and could have had a serious impact. I was just kind of holding my breath to see how that played out.

Kim had meetings at the White House and brought attention to prison reform policy, which is a HUGE issue in the US right now, and she single-handedly turned millions of eyes towards it that might have never thought twice about it.

Regardless of how celebrity is obtained, once someone has that much money and that much hold over huge swaths of the population, they are a significant economic and political force.

Elon Musk's influence on things like crypto is largely because of his celebrity. He got his celebrity because of his business accomplishments, but his celebrity alone has an enormous force in and of itself. Same with any other mega celebrity.

When you're that famous, you *are* a platform. Regardless of how you got there.

I couldn't give two shits who's dating who, or who cheated on who, but I definitely take notice of someone who has the power to influence that many people, and how they choose to use or *not* use that influence.

Similarly, I don't know anything about Taylor Swift's music, but I was keenly aware when she made the choice to go from being apolitical to heavily promoting her pro-LGBTQ+ values, which was significant as she had been an alt-right, neo-nazi icon for years.

snowball

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6601 on: December 20, 2021, 09:25:22 AM »
For what it's worth, I mostly don't follow the news in general. I've been monitoring it a bit more during the pandemic, but only because I want to be aware of where things are with vaccines and restrictions.

I'm not sure I can say anything more about Kanye other than that he's a musician I don't listen to.  I think I saw something about him running for president?  But if you hadn't said that, Malcat, I would never have remembered that piece of info on my own.

I don't at all mean this to be a flex of "look how awesome I am" in tuning out of politics and - really - the world as a whole.  I have taken it to an extreme, and I don't think there's anything particularly admirable in that.  I used to pay much more attention, many years ago, but right now when I think about going back to that level of engagement...it makes me feel deeply tired, kind of like I feel when I think about the idea of going back to my career.  Maybe after I've been FIREd longer, this part of my brain will come back.  I don't think I have had that specific type of emotional energy to spare for a long time.  I can't even bring myself to follow climate-related stuff, for the most part, and I care deeply about that.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6602 on: December 20, 2021, 10:20:56 AM »
I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here
The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6603 on: December 20, 2021, 10:25:47 AM »
Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1. 


(Mod note: banned)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2021, 10:47:56 AM by FrugalToque »

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6604 on: December 20, 2021, 10:31:34 AM »
Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1.

Well, men have sportsball. Kind of the same thing really.  I wonder how much of both comes from a desperate attempt to fit in and relate to one another?

PhilB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6605 on: December 20, 2021, 10:37:16 AM »
I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here
The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

Thanks for responding.  I can see how you might think that and it probably is indeed true for some of the people in the wider world who run down particular celebrities. 

I'm old enough to just be naturally prejudiced against people who are just famous for being famous / acting up in public.  That prejudice applies without reference to gender, race, orientation or anything else.  I am perfectly happy, however, to extend that prejudice to people who initially gain fame by doing something like creating a major company or being good at kicking a ball, but then use that fame to act like a dick :)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6606 on: December 20, 2021, 11:50:51 AM »
Well, men have sportsball. Kind of the same thing really.  I wonder how much of both comes from a desperate attempt to fit in and relate to one another?
I suspect it's a lot of it.

Many years ago I used to work for a Dutch firm.  I was in Rotterdam visiting corporate headquarters when the US got into the soccer world cup tournament for the first time.   This was a big enough deal at the office that even I, someone who doesn't give a damn about sportsball of any sort, was aware of it.

We were having a drink at the hotel bar with some of the workers from hq and one of the soccer games was on the tv in the background and they were all excited about it.  I made a comment to the effect that soccer was the least disinteresting of the various ball games.   

The result was simply astounding.  I was now "One of the guys!".    Got some shoulder hugs.   The next day they brought me a hat and facepaint in the Dutch team colors.  (Orange, of course!)    I was flabbergasted.

So, yeah, it's kind of like a topic they provides "Instant Male Bondo".

I still don't understand why people care.   I mean, for American football, why should I care whether one group of strangers can carry a piece of dead pig around a field better than another group of strangers?  It's a complete mystery to me.

Then again, I put on medieval armor and let people hit me with sticks, so who am I to judge?  :)


Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6607 on: December 20, 2021, 01:03:56 PM »
I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here
The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

Thanks for responding.  I can see how you might think that and it probably is indeed true for some of the people in the wider world who run down particular celebrities. 

I'm old enough to just be naturally prejudiced against people who are just famous for being famous / acting up in public.  That prejudice applies without reference to gender, race, orientation or anything else.  I am perfectly happy, however, to extend that prejudice to people who initially gain fame by doing something like creating a major company or being good at kicking a ball, but then use that fame to act like a dick :)

But is kicking a ball intrinsically more impressive than being a branding genius? Because that's what the K clan are, fucking branding geniuses.

I'm personally more impressed by someone generating multiple billion dollar empires out of thin fucking air than I am by some dude who kicks a ball well and runs real, real fast.

Why is an athlete fundamentally deserving of more respect than someone who has the savvy to make fucking billions off of emojis?
I remember when I read a financial news source article about just how much Kim was making off of her bloody emoji line, and I was gobsmacked, it was making 1M/minute the day of its release. That's fucking insanity.

Kylie is most famous for phenomenal personal branding, and launching a remarkably successful business in a product space that is notoriously cutthroat and viciously competitive, and she was wildly successful competing against industry giants. She was written up in Forbes for a reason.

Again, I find that more impressive than kicking a ball and running real, real fast.

So I have to say, I do find it kind of fascinating that people like to ignore the massive skill, savvy, and accomplishments of these insanely successful business women. Because they aren't famous for nothing, they're famous for reading the market exquisitely well and branding the absolute fuck out of any and every asset they had at their disposal to become some of the most influential people in the world.

If they were a case where there was a professional business manager behind their entire career who designed their brand, launched them, managed their image, and then launched major businesses off the backs of their fame while they acted like pretty puppets, that manager would be celebrated as an absolute business genius.

Only their manager is their mom, and they're smart enough to launch their own businesses, so they don't get the credit for some reason.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6608 on: December 20, 2021, 02:32:40 PM »
I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here
The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

Thanks for responding.  I can see how you might think that and it probably is indeed true for some of the people in the wider world who run down particular celebrities. 

I'm old enough to just be naturally prejudiced against people who are just famous for being famous / acting up in public.  That prejudice applies without reference to gender, race, orientation or anything else.  I am perfectly happy, however, to extend that prejudice to people who initially gain fame by doing something like creating a major company or being good at kicking a ball, but then use that fame to act like a dick :)

But is kicking a ball intrinsically more impressive than being a branding genius? Because that's what the K clan are, fucking branding geniuses.

I'm personally more impressed by someone generating multiple billion dollar empires out of thin fucking air than I am by some dude who kicks a ball well and runs real, real fast.

Why is an athlete fundamentally deserving of more respect than someone who has the savvy to make fucking billions off of emojis?
I remember when I read a financial news source article about just how much Kim was making off of her bloody emoji line, and I was gobsmacked, it was making 1M/minute the day of its release. That's fucking insanity.

Kylie is most famous for phenomenal personal branding, and launching a remarkably successful business in a product space that is notoriously cutthroat and viciously competitive, and she was wildly successful competing against industry giants. She was written up in Forbes for a reason.

Again, I find that more impressive than kicking a ball and running real, real fast.

So I have to say, I do find it kind of fascinating that people like to ignore the massive skill, savvy, and accomplishments of these insanely successful business women. Because they aren't famous for nothing, they're famous for reading the market exquisitely well and branding the absolute fuck out of any and every asset they had at their disposal to become some of the most influential people in the world.

If they were a case where there was a professional business manager behind their entire career who designed their brand, launched them, managed their image, and then launched major businesses off the backs of their fame while they acted like pretty puppets, that manager would be celebrated as an absolute business genius.

Only their manager is their mom, and they're smart enough to launch their own businesses, so they don't get the credit for some reason.

You are absolutely correct!

I have zero interest in what they brand but I admire their ability to do it so very well.   Caught a few minutes of a tv interview with Kim K. a decade or so back and she was quite impressive.  Interviewer flat out said she had no entertainer talent and wondered how she was an entertainment celebrity.   She agreed with him that she had no talent at singing, dancing, acting, writing, etc., and then told him it wasn't easy being so very good at entertaining with no talent, but she was doing it.   Stopped that line of questions in its tracks.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6609 on: December 20, 2021, 02:56:30 PM »
@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6610 on: December 20, 2021, 03:08:33 PM »
@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

2Cent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6611 on: December 20, 2021, 03:29:50 PM »
I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.
Inopportune, perhaps.  But at least you normally have several months' warning...
With adoption you also have to go through a long process, don't worry. Anyway, I think your parents might prefer to have a grandson while they are still relatively young instead of elderly. At their age a few years waiting means missing out on a few years of their grandchild's life. Kids are for me one of the things that supersede finance. Because while you may get a chance to fix your finances, for kids there is a time window until mid thirties after which it fast starts becoming less feasible. You may have a lot more money, but you will have a lot less energy.  Living with multiple generations together is also the way it has always been until very recently. If your brother has your retired parents happy and standing by to help that is a great situation to raise a child. For some things it's good to go it alone and work it out for yourself. Kids is not one of those things. There you should take as much help as you can find because it's not about you, but about the child. (Obviously not at the cost of your own involvement.)

PhilB

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6612 on: December 20, 2021, 03:34:48 PM »
@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6613 on: December 20, 2021, 06:54:07 PM »
I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

What island?

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6614 on: December 20, 2021, 08:06:36 PM »
@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

There are plenty of self aggrandizing billionaires who shamelessly self promote. Elon Musk is as much a brand of personality as his actual products that he sells. What amazing product did Zuckerberg produce? How is a social media site somehow more legitimate than a reality brand? Why is their product somehow more unseemly than the countless other dreadful products out there?

I think the line is much greyer than people make it out to be. People just do REALLY like to "other" the Kardashians when it comes to their business acumen.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6615 on: December 20, 2021, 08:31:33 PM »
@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.
Hmm, something about an insurrection in that one. Maybe that's why we had to memorize it. Nos autem fortes viri...

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6616 on: December 20, 2021, 09:07:07 PM »
@Malcat I am happy to take your word about the Kardashians being brilliant, smart business people - I know nothing at all about them apart from the name and the fact that there was, I believe, a TV show about them.  If they have worked out clever ways to exploit the consumer suckas that are into brands then I definitely agree that is more impressive than kicking a ball and running fast.  I just find it terribly sad that there are all those people out there who desperately want to follow what celebrities are doing and part with their hard earned cash to try and be like them.  I realise that I'm in the minority on this and that makes me the weird one.

Of course it's sad. But there are countless business bazillionaires who sell products that are terrible for people, and yet we still generally respect their business savvy as titans of industry.

It's this double standard that I just don't understand. As I said, if there was a business man behind the Kardashian brand pulling the strings, he would probably be celebrated as a business genius regardless of how vapid his product was.

For me at least there is a difference between marketing a product and being that product and marketing yourself.  I can admire the business acumen in both cases, but I find the whole 'Look at me!  Aren't I wonderful!  If you buy this you can be like me!' side of it that some celebrities seem to have deeply distasteful.  But then I'm both British and old-fashioned, so I would.  O tempora o mores and all that.

There are plenty of self aggrandizing billionaires who shamelessly self promote. Elon Musk is as much a brand of personality as his actual products that he sells. What amazing product did Zuckerberg produce? How is a social media site somehow more legitimate than a reality brand? Why is their product somehow more unseemly than the countless other dreadful products out there?

I think the line is much greyer than people make it out to be. People just do REALLY like to "other" the Kardashians when it comes to their business acumen.

Interesting note about Zuckerberg. What would Facebook be like if he had a public persona that people actually liked??

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6617 on: December 21, 2021, 06:07:02 AM »
Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1. 


(Mod note: banned)

Thank you, FT.

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6618 on: December 21, 2021, 10:53:37 AM »
I pay little attention to the K crew but did know when one was going to run for president and I laughed. That dismissal might have been premature as we did elect trump.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6619 on: December 21, 2021, 12:19:41 PM »
I pay little attention to the K crew but did know when one was going to run for president and I laughed. That dismissal might have been premature as we did elect trump.

Also, his wife says he's mentally ill. Being mentally ill when you are already famous doesn't leave a lot of room for error.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6620 on: December 22, 2021, 12:51:55 PM »

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6621 on: December 22, 2021, 12:52:44 PM »
Then again, I put on medieval armor and let people hit me with sticks, so who am I to judge?  :)

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion: How about trying to hit them with sticks while not letting them hit you? :D

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6622 on: December 22, 2021, 01:44:50 PM »

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

Yeah, he was married to Kim Kardashian at the time, part of the Kardashian ecosystem.

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6623 on: December 22, 2021, 03:52:40 PM »

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

Yeah, he was married to Kim Kardashian at the time, part of the Kardashian ecosystem.

No shit? I have heard of Kanye and I have heard of the general concept Kardashian, but had no idea there was a connection. And could not care less…but it’s still interesting to me that I had no idea. Tells me I have made some good decisions in life.

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6624 on: December 22, 2021, 04:39:27 PM »

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

Yeah, he was married to Kim Kardashian at the time, part of the Kardashian ecosystem.

No shit? I have heard of Kanye and I have heard of the general concept Kardashian, but had no idea there was a connection. And could not care less…but it’s still interesting to me that I had no idea. Tells me I have made some good decisions in life.

Sure, depends on how you qualify it.
I personally like being aware of Kanye being the wealthiest black person in US history, that Kylie was named the youngest self made billionaire in the world by Forbes, that Caitlyn was the first trans woman on the cover of Vogue, that Kim has become an absolute force in the bipartisan prison reform movement in the US, that their father was OJ Simpson's lawyer. As a family, they are rather culturally significant. Contrary to how it may seem, I'm not a fan, and know very little about their personal lives, no deep dive is required to know this stuff, this is just basic headline knowledge. So I'm always kind of fascinated by people who manage to stay so unaware of them.

I *am* impressed with people who have low information diets, I just find it virtually impossible to not be exposed to major news headlines about them. However, I do read A LOT about LGBTQ+ policy, prison reform, and financial articles, so I'm more likely to see certain types of content about them I suppose.

PMG

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6625 on: December 22, 2021, 04:56:24 PM »
I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6626 on: December 22, 2021, 05:12:04 PM »
Then again, I put on medieval armor and let people hit me with sticks, so who am I to judge?  :)

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion: How about trying to hit them with sticks while not letting them hit you? :D

That IS the general idea, but I'm a good bit fatter and out of shape than I used to be.   I used to be quite good at it.   

In past years, I would rank myself at the bottom of the 1st tier in one-on-one combats and top of the 1st tier in battles.  My son got to see me in a series of battles one day and described me to his friends as "a force of nature".  :)

Sibley

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6627 on: December 22, 2021, 07:12:16 PM »
I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

That kind of determination I can respect. From anyone.

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6628 on: December 22, 2021, 08:09:02 PM »
I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

That kind of determination I can respect. From anyone.

Her prison reform work is very impressive, and from what I can tell, prison reform is an issue desperately needing to be addressed in the US. Forbes wrote an article back in 2019 about how the Republicans and Democrats should really be listening to her on prison reform.

"Kardashian has been hands-on, understands the issues, compassionate and got something done.  Personally, I’m not a fan of her reality TV show, but she has shown us a way out of this mess if only someone would listen."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2019/07/23/democrats-should-listen-to-kim-kardashian-on-prison-reform/amp/

These articles pop up for me because I'm so interested in prison reform. So I see these articles about her constantly, and it's REALLY interesting. I hope she has the tenacity to keep chipping away at this.

I've only really seen headlines and read a few articles here and there about what she's been up to, but in writing this post actually read through a ton of them, and holy crap, that's some intense shit!
« Last Edit: December 22, 2021, 08:11:48 PM by Malcat »

PDXTabs

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6629 on: December 22, 2021, 11:31:18 PM »
Her prison reform work is very impressive, and from what I can tell, prison reform is an issue desperately needing to be addressed in the US. Forbes wrote an article back in 2019 about how the Republicans and Democrats should really be listening to her on prison reform.

Indeed, and to some extent it is an issue that spans the political spectrum. The Koch brothers are proponents, although then they give money to the GOP that really doesn't care.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6630 on: December 23, 2021, 01:57:48 AM »
I think some folks forget that we first heard their name because Kim's father was a very good lawyer. Or, at least this non celebrity follower did.

OtherJen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6631 on: December 23, 2021, 04:45:31 AM »
I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

Good for her. I hope she's successful.

Warlord1986

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6632 on: December 23, 2021, 11:46:14 AM »
I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6633 on: December 23, 2021, 12:56:59 PM »
I think the Kardashians kids were all toxically famous before they had a real choice, and once you reach a certain level of fame, it takes over your life. You can't just get a regular job because you're too famous (or infamous)- you have to monetize your fame any way you can. Then people think you are a tacky money-grubber, when actually you are just trying to survive the rest of your life.

PDXTabs

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6634 on: December 23, 2021, 02:51:43 PM »
Then people think you are a tacky money-grubber, when actually you are just trying to survive the rest of your life.

Are you? Because once I had $1M I'd be too busy sitting on my balcony in Lisbon to care.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6635 on: December 23, 2021, 03:18:19 PM »
Then people think you are a tacky money-grubber, when actually you are just trying to survive the rest of your life.

Are you? Because once I had $1M I'd be too busy sitting on my balcony in Lisbon to care.

Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

PDXTabs

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6636 on: December 23, 2021, 03:40:02 PM »
Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

That's a good point. Did the media condemn Rittenhouse (and us) to a lifetime of Rittenhouse being a nutter in public?

OtherJen

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6637 on: December 23, 2021, 03:50:03 PM »
Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

That's a good point. Did the media condemn Rittenhouse (and us) to a lifetime of Rittenhouse being a nutter in public?

He's certainly milking it for all it's worth right now, pyrotechnics and all. https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-shootings-phoenix-wisconsin-acquittals-4366373309c4cf2657fef86d00c76f99

Of course, at 18 I'd probably have done the same (take the opportunity for crazy publicity), given the opportunity. Frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed at that age.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6638 on: December 24, 2021, 01:25:18 AM »
Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

That's a good point. Did the media condemn Rittenhouse (and us) to a lifetime of Rittenhouse being a nutter in public?

He's certainly milking it for all it's worth right now, pyrotechnics and all. https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-shootings-phoenix-wisconsin-acquittals-4366373309c4cf2657fef86d00c76f99

Of course, at 18 I'd probably have done the same (take the opportunity for crazy publicity), given the opportunity. Frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed at that age.

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

felixbf

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6639 on: December 24, 2021, 01:49:08 AM »
I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

Lets be honest here.
She did nothing, people around her done that and she takes the credit for it.

six-car-habit

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6640 on: December 24, 2021, 01:52:00 AM »

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6641 on: December 24, 2021, 06:13:44 AM »

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

Having nobody driving around with cellphones would make me happiest. Guns don’t bother me day to day, but people in these multi-ton weapons of local destruction bother me every time I am on a road.

Definitely some lessons available from the unfortunate events in Wisconsin. The main one being stay home…

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6642 on: December 24, 2021, 07:24:51 AM »

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

Having nobody driving around with cellphones would make me happiest. Guns don’t bother me day to day, but people in these multi-ton weapons of local destruction bother me every time I am on a road.

Definitely some lessons available from the unfortunate events in Wisconsin. The main one being stay home…

I’m not sure why one would bother you and not the other considering the numbers.

https://vpc.org/regulating-the-gun-industry/gun-deaths-compared-to-motor-vehicle-deaths/



https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6643 on: December 24, 2021, 08:27:05 AM »
I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

Lets be honest here.
She did nothing, people around her done that and she takes the credit for it.

Who said, "Make this happen!"

Who said, "I'm paying to make this happen!"

If Kim can answer yes to either of those, she qualifies for hero status on this topic.

If Kim can answer, "I found the right people and convinced them to make it happen.", ditto.

Winston Churchill didn't beat the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain from a Spitfire, but he sure did his part by weaponizing the English Language and mobilizing the British people.   And we rightly honor him for it.

JoePublic3.14

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6644 on: December 24, 2021, 09:55:34 AM »

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

Having nobody driving around with cellphones would make me happiest. Guns don’t bother me day to day, but people in these multi-ton weapons of local destruction bother me every time I am on a road.

Definitely some lessons available from the unfortunate events in Wisconsin. The main one being stay home…

I’m not sure why one would bother you and not the other considering the numbers.

https://vpc.org/regulating-the-gun-industry/gun-deaths-compared-to-motor-vehicle-deaths/


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Would need to interrogate the data a lot deeper than just overall numbers. What’s the geographic distribution? What’s the time of day distribution? What was the person doing that got shot? And of course what was the person doing that did the shooting (besides the obvious?) And so on.

Just by watching the news over the last four months since we relocated, there has been numerous traffic deaths nearby on roads I use, at least two happened during my normal waking hours. And at least one was said to have distracted driving as a factor. There have been numerous gun deaths also. Two were at bars in the wee hours, no chance for that to get me, location or time. One other at a house party. I don’t go to house parties, so no chance there either. I think we had one at a school also. I don’t go to school, so safe from those also.

My habits dramatically decrease the odds of me taking a bullet. My habits increase the odds of having a traffic accident, and my observations tell me there are a lot of complete dirtbags staring at their phones while behind the wheel. I run through my neighborhood almost daily, and I’d wager that half the drivers are using their phones for purposes other than already programmed navigation.

So that’s my personal reason for having no fear of guns in general, especially relative to drivers.

Small note. I’ve had guns pulled near me / on me twice as a civilian, and had someone shoot close enough to me on a country road during a long run that I called 911 when I got home. Also had a couple other gun interactions during a deployment in the military.

Malcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6645 on: December 24, 2021, 09:57:44 AM »
I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

Lets be honest here.
She did nothing, people around her done that and she takes the credit for it.

According to whom? Not any reputable source I've read.


maisymouser

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6646 on: December 24, 2021, 05:04:51 PM »
I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2021, 05:08:56 PM by maisymouser »

Cassie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6647 on: December 24, 2021, 05:39:46 PM »
Maisy, your MIL isn’t a very nice person. I care more about people then presentation.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6648 on: December 24, 2021, 05:43:04 PM »
I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

Your MIL expects you to set a nice table with NAPKIN RINGS!?!?  How gauche.  Déclassé even.   Napkin rings date back to when the dinosaurs roamed and people used cloth napkins (i.e. my childhood).  Cotton was for regular meals.  If the napkins were clean after the meal, each person put their own napkin in their own napkin ring (they were clearly different for each person), to be kept for the next meal.   Because all those napkins had to be washed and ironed and this saved work.

For a nice meal the linen napkins were used, and for a really nice meal they would be folded into interesting patterns.  I worked one summer in a nice restaurant (expensive private golf course) and for special events we spent the afternoon folding napkins. 

So your MIL can act surprised all she wants about you forgetting what goes where, but your napkin instincts were right on and hers are not.  Hold your head high.

Oh and Miss Manners has lots of good stuff about all this, and libraries carry her.  She is fun to read, not a snob, and you will get a good idea of her (low) opinion about your MIL's attitude, which will agree with Cassie's.  And you may find that your MIL isn't as high class as she thinks she is in more areas than just (shudder) napkin rings.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6649 on: December 24, 2021, 06:42:53 PM »
Member of our Christmas party took me aside and taught me about the St Germain fund and the Rodriguez Fund. Apparently they are enormous - 45 zeros after the money sum. And every so often they do an adjustment that pays off worldwide corporate debt and then whatever is left over trickles down to us regular folks. Could be worth $100K per person for several years I was told. The next adjustment is tomorrow.

Anyhow, they are hoping to fund a housing upgrade as soon as they receive their portion.

I hope they aren't too disappointed tomorrow.

On a bright note, no politics and whoever switched on FoxNews was quickly out-voted.