Relatives who just don't get it

[TomTX]

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

[TomTX]

Then again, I put on medieval armor and let people hit me with sticks, so who am I to judge?  :)

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion: How about trying to hit them with sticks while not letting them hit you? :D

[Metalcat]

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

Yeah, he was married to Kim Kardashian at the time, part of the Kardashian ecosystem.

[JoePublic3.14]

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

Yeah, he was married to Kim Kardashian at the time, part of the Kardashian ecosystem.

No shit? I have heard of Kanye and I have heard of the general concept Kardashian, but had no idea there was a connection. And could not care less…but it’s still interesting to me that I had no idea. Tells me I have made some good decisions in life.

[Metalcat]

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

I remember a musician named Kanye briefly running for president, but I thought it was Kanye West, not Kardashian.

Yeah, he was married to Kim Kardashian at the time, part of the Kardashian ecosystem.

No shit? I have heard of Kanye and I have heard of the general concept Kardashian, but had no idea there was a connection. And could not care less…but it’s still interesting to me that I had no idea. Tells me I have made some good decisions in life.

Sure, depends on how you qualify it.
I personally like being aware of Kanye being the wealthiest black person in US history, that Kylie was named the youngest self made billionaire in the world by Forbes, that Caitlyn was the first trans woman on the cover of Vogue, that Kim has become an absolute force in the bipartisan prison reform movement in the US, that their father was OJ Simpson's lawyer. As a family, they are rather culturally significant. Contrary to how it may seem, I'm not a fan, and know very little about their personal lives, no deep dive is required to know this stuff, this is just basic headline knowledge. So I'm always kind of fascinated by people who manage to stay so unaware of them.

I *am* impressed with people who have low information diets, I just find it virtually impossible to not be exposed to major news headlines about them. However, I do read A LOT about LGBTQ+ policy, prison reform, and financial articles, so I'm more likely to see certain types of content about them I suppose.

[PMG]

I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

[SwordGuy]

Then again, I put on medieval armor and let people hit me with sticks, so who am I to judge?  :)

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion: How about trying to hit them with sticks while not letting them hit you? :D

That IS the general idea, but I'm a good bit fatter and out of shape than I used to be.   I used to be quite good at it.   

In past years, I would rank myself at the bottom of the 1st tier in one-on-one combats and top of the 1st tier in battles.  My son got to see me in a series of battles one day and described me to his friends as "a force of nature".  :)

[Sibley]

I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

That kind of determination I can respect. From anyone.

[Metalcat]

I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

That kind of determination I can respect. From anyone.

Her prison reform work is very impressive, and from what I can tell, prison reform is an issue desperately needing to be addressed in the US. Forbes wrote an article back in 2019 about how the Republicans and Democrats should really be listening to her on prison reform.

"Kardashian has been hands-on, understands the issues, compassionate and got something done.  Personally, I’m not a fan of her reality TV show, but she has shown us a way out of this mess if only someone would listen."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/walterpavlo/2019/07/23/democrats-should-listen-to-kim-kardashian-on-prison-reform/amp/

These articles pop up for me because I'm so interested in prison reform. So I see these articles about her constantly, and it's REALLY interesting. I hope she has the tenacity to keep chipping away at this.

I've only really seen headlines and read a few articles here and there about what she's been up to, but in writing this post actually read through a ton of them, and holy crap, that's some intense shit!

[PDXTabs]

Her prison reform work is very impressive, and from what I can tell, prison reform is an issue desperately needing to be addressed in the US. Forbes wrote an article back in 2019 about how the Republicans and Democrats should really be listening to her on prison reform.

Indeed, and to some extent it is an issue that spans the political spectrum. The Koch brothers are proponents, although then they give money to the GOP that really doesn't care.

[ixtap]

I think some folks forget that we first heard their name because Kim's father was a very good lawyer. Or, at least this non celebrity follower did.

[OtherJen]

I’m also not a Kardashian fan, but have to notice some activity once in a while. For example, Kim passed her “baby bar” exam last week. Because of this thread I looked it up. This was her fourth attempt on three years. Her lowest score was when she took it while she had covid. And she had the tenacity to come back and do it until she passed.  I’m sure she’s received support from her fan base but my guess is she’s received an equal amount of public derision. She still has more law school and the full bar to go. Her goal is to do pro bono work and continue prison reform work.

Good for her. I hope she's successful.

[Warlord1986]

I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I think the Kardashians kids were all toxically famous before they had a real choice, and once you reach a certain level of fame, it takes over your life. You can't just get a regular job because you're too famous (or infamous)- you have to monetize your fame any way you can. Then people think you are a tacky money-grubber, when actually you are just trying to survive the rest of your life.

[PDXTabs]

Then people think you are a tacky money-grubber, when actually you are just trying to survive the rest of your life.

Are you? Because once I had $1M I'd be too busy sitting on my balcony in Lisbon to care.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

Then people think you are a tacky money-grubber, when actually you are just trying to survive the rest of your life.

Are you? Because once I had $1M I'd be too busy sitting on my balcony in Lisbon to care.

Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

[PDXTabs]

Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

That's a good point. Did the media condemn Rittenhouse (and us) to a lifetime of Rittenhouse being a nutter in public?

[OtherJen]

Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

That's a good point. Did the media condemn Rittenhouse (and us) to a lifetime of Rittenhouse being a nutter in public?

He's certainly milking it for all it's worth right now, pyrotechnics and all. https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-shootings-phoenix-wisconsin-acquittals-4366373309c4cf2657fef86d00c76f99

Of course, at 18 I'd probably have done the same (take the opportunity for crazy publicity), given the opportunity. Frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed at that age.

[Plina]

Well, the Kardashians were probably already rich enough not to work (although I don't imagine that living on a regular amount of money was in their childhood upbringing), but I am also thinking of people involved in scandals who become infamous. They can't work but were not independently wealthy.

That's a good point. Did the media condemn Rittenhouse (and us) to a lifetime of Rittenhouse being a nutter in public?

He's certainly milking it for all it's worth right now, pyrotechnics and all. https://apnews.com/article/kyle-rittenhouse-shootings-phoenix-wisconsin-acquittals-4366373309c4cf2657fef86d00c76f99

Of course, at 18 I'd probably have done the same (take the opportunity for crazy publicity), given the opportunity. Frontal cortex of the brain isn't fully developed at that age.

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

[felixbf]

I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

Lets be honest here.
She did nothing, people around her done that and she takes the credit for it.

[six-car-habit]

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

[JoePublic3.14]

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

Having nobody driving around with cellphones would make me happiest. Guns don’t bother me day to day, but people in these multi-ton weapons of local destruction bother me every time I am on a road.

Definitely some lessons available from the unfortunate events in Wisconsin. The main one being stay home…

[ysette9]

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

Having nobody driving around with cellphones would make me happiest. Guns don’t bother me day to day, but people in these multi-ton weapons of local destruction bother me every time I am on a road.

Definitely some lessons available from the unfortunate events in Wisconsin. The main one being stay home…

I’m not sure why one would bother you and not the other considering the numbers.

https://vpc.org/regulating-the-gun-industry/gun-deaths-compared-to-motor-vehicle-deaths/



https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

[SwordGuy]

I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

Lets be honest here.
She did nothing, people around her done that and she takes the credit for it.

Who said, "Make this happen!"

Who said, "I'm paying to make this happen!"

If Kim can answer yes to either of those, she qualifies for hero status on this topic.

If Kim can answer, "I found the right people and convinced them to make it happen.", ditto.

Winston Churchill didn't beat the Luftwaffe in the Battle of Britain from a Spitfire, but he sure did his part by weaponizing the English Language and mobilizing the British people.   And we rightly honor him for it.

[JoePublic3.14]

I wonder if it would be possible to get standing ovations in any other country then US for killing people? And what kind of person makes a publicity stunt out of it? Do you really want someone like that walking around on the streets armed?

 standing ovations in other countries - yes
  what kind of person ?  -  someone who doesn't feel remorse over their actions and would probably repeat them.
  having nobody walking around with guns would make me happiest, whether they are a citizen, a soldier, or police.

Having nobody driving around with cellphones would make me happiest. Guns don’t bother me day to day, but people in these multi-ton weapons of local destruction bother me every time I am on a road.

Definitely some lessons available from the unfortunate events in Wisconsin. The main one being stay home…

I’m not sure why one would bother you and not the other considering the numbers.

https://vpc.org/regulating-the-gun-industry/gun-deaths-compared-to-motor-vehicle-deaths/


https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

Would need to interrogate the data a lot deeper than just overall numbers. What’s the geographic distribution? What’s the time of day distribution? What was the person doing that got shot? And of course what was the person doing that did the shooting (besides the obvious?) And so on.

Just by watching the news over the last four months since we relocated, there has been numerous traffic deaths nearby on roads I use, at least two happened during my normal waking hours. And at least one was said to have distracted driving as a factor. There have been numerous gun deaths also. Two were at bars in the wee hours, no chance for that to get me, location or time. One other at a house party. I don’t go to house parties, so no chance there either. I think we had one at a school also. I don’t go to school, so safe from those also.

My habits dramatically decrease the odds of me taking a bullet. My habits increase the odds of having a traffic accident, and my observations tell me there are a lot of complete dirtbags staring at their phones while behind the wheel. I run through my neighborhood almost daily, and I’d wager that half the drivers are using their phones for purposes other than already programmed navigation.

So that’s my personal reason for having no fear of guns in general, especially relative to drivers.

Small note. I’ve had guns pulled near me / on me twice as a civilian, and had someone shoot close enough to me on a country road during a long run that I called 911 when I got home. Also had a couple other gun interactions during a deployment in the military.

[Metalcat]

I don't know too much about the Kardashians outside of the occasional headline. I'm not interested, and there's too much information about them to keep up with.

That said...

Kim Kardashian is speaking up for a subset of the population most of us (myself included) have written off. She's using her celebrity to speak up for the vulnerable.

She also got the Afghan women's soccer team out when the Taliban was taking over.

I'm not talking smack about Kim. She's good people.

Lets be honest here.
She did nothing, people around her done that and she takes the credit for it.

According to whom? Not any reputable source I've read.

[maisymouser]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

[Cassie]

Maisy, your MIL isn’t a very nice person. I care more about people then presentation.

[RetiredAt63]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

Your MIL expects you to set a nice table with NAPKIN RINGS!?!?  How gauche.  Déclassé even.   Napkin rings date back to when the dinosaurs roamed and people used cloth napkins (i.e. my childhood).  Cotton was for regular meals.  If the napkins were clean after the meal, each person put their own napkin in their own napkin ring (they were clearly different for each person), to be kept for the next meal.   Because all those napkins had to be washed and ironed and this saved work.

For a nice meal the linen napkins were used, and for a really nice meal they would be folded into interesting patterns.  I worked one summer in a nice restaurant (expensive private golf course) and for special events we spent the afternoon folding napkins. 

So your MIL can act surprised all she wants about you forgetting what goes where, but your napkin instincts were right on and hers are not.  Hold your head high.

Oh and Miss Manners has lots of good stuff about all this, and libraries carry her.  She is fun to read, not a snob, and you will get a good idea of her (low) opinion about your MIL's attitude, which will agree with Cassie's.  And you may find that your MIL isn't as high class as she thinks she is in more areas than just (shudder) napkin rings.

[Just Joe]

Member of our Christmas party took me aside and taught me about the St Germain fund and the Rodriguez Fund. Apparently they are enormous - 45 zeros after the money sum. And every so often they do an adjustment that pays off worldwide corporate debt and then whatever is left over trickles down to us regular folks. Could be worth $100K per person for several years I was told. The next adjustment is tomorrow.

Anyhow, they are hoping to fund a housing upgrade as soon as they receive their portion.

I hope they aren't too disappointed tomorrow.

On a bright note, no politics and whoever switched on FoxNews was quickly out-voted. 

   

[Freedomin5]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

Ugh...I would’ve just drily responded, “I wouldn’t be asking if I knew the answer.” Or if I was in a sarcastic mood, “No, I like to ask questions to which I already know the answers just for fun.”

[Zamboni]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

MIL's are notoriously the worst people on the planet. Sorry to read that you had to go through that.

Miss Manners would say that she showed very, very bad manners because her treatment made you feel bad about yourself. People with good manners simply do not make other people feel bad about themselves . . . ever. And that's way way more important than where the utensils are traditionally set. One can know every detail of the rules of table etiquette and still be a total boor.

If you are right handed, it will be easier to remember that the knife goes on the right side because it makes is easier to grab it fast and stab your MIL, when the time comes, lol.

[NorthernIkigai]

Member of our Christmas party took me aside and taught me about the St Germain fund and the Rodriguez Fund. Apparently they are enormous - 45 zeros after the money sum. And every so often they do an adjustment that pays off worldwide corporate debt and then whatever is left over trickles down to us regular folks. Could be worth $100K per person for several years I was told. The next adjustment is tomorrow.

Anyhow, they are hoping to fund a housing upgrade as soon as they receive their portion.

I hope they aren't too disappointed tomorrow.

On a bright note, no politics and whoever switched on FoxNews was quickly out-voted. 

What? And how does this adjustment happen? Or rather, how has this person “invested” in these funds?

[Taran Wanderer]

If you are right handed, it will be easier to remember that the knife goes on the right side because it makes is easier to grab it fast and stab your MIL, when the time comes, lol.

That is correct, and the cutting side of the knife should be toward your plate so it doesn’t “look” like you’re going to stab her.

[Just Joe]

What? And how does this adjustment happen? Or rather, how has this person “invested” in these funds?

Everyone is just automagically invested. And the money just appears. Either in your bank account or by mailed check.

Can you imagine a world where everyone suddenly is $100K richer? Nah, me either. The psychology necessary to believe this has me concerned.

There were other high spending plans built into the discussion. Can't imagine where the money for these plans will come from.

And their former "flame" is going to move into a fancy house with them. I know their former flame. Flame is definitely not returning.

I came away thinking mostly about how their daydream leaked out into real life conversation with so much confidence. We're middle aged adults. It was alot like listening to a hopefully child discussing Santa Claus. Fortunately they have some good people around them if this is the opening chapters of some sort of breakdown.

[RetiredAt63]

If you are right handed, it will be easier to remember that the knife goes on the right side because it makes is easier to grab it fast and stab your MIL, when the time comes, lol.

That is correct, and the cutting side of the knife should be toward your plate so it doesn’t “look” like you’re going to stab her.

And it means you don't slice your fingers as you grab the knife.

[Metalcat]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

She sounds like a miserable cow.

FTR, I was raised poor, but by parents who were from upper class backgrounds, and my step dad managed a private club, so I learned ALL of the stupid table rules AND knew how to do complicated cloth napkin folds, and I don't remember 90% of that shit because it doesn't matter.

Being condescending about dated bullshit that really does not matter is just ridiculous. Most restaurants these days don't even adhere to dated table-setting standards, that's how little they matter.

That's not even a class thing anymore, that's a clueless, judgemental old person thing.

[RetiredAt63]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

She sounds like a miserable cow.

FTR, I was raised poor, but by parents who were from upper class backgrounds, and my step dad managed a private club, so I learned ALL of the stupid table rules AND knew how to do complicated cloth napkin folds, and I don't remember 90% of that shit because it doesn't matter.

Being condescending about dated bullshit that really does not matter is just ridiculous. Most restaurants these days don't even adhere to dated table-setting standards, that's how little they matter.

That's not even a class thing anymore, that's a clueless, judgemental old person thing.

The funny side of this (for remembering next year) is that she didn't even get all the old rules right.

Maybe next year the other side of the family gets visited for Christmas?  Because she certainly does not represent the joy of the season.

[SwordGuy]

Next time, do her place setting by the book.

And do every other place setting totally random.  Or even better, write the first initial of the person sitting there using the layout of the cutlery.
Bring along some funny cookies to fill in any bits the silverware won't handle.

Everyone else will think it's fun and she'll get the message.

[OtherJen]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

She sounds like a miserable cow.

FTR, I was raised poor, but by parents who were from upper class backgrounds, and my step dad managed a private club, so I learned ALL of the stupid table rules AND knew how to do complicated cloth napkin folds, and I don't remember 90% of that shit because it doesn't matter.

Being condescending about dated bullshit that really does not matter is just ridiculous. Most restaurants these days don't even adhere to dated table-setting standards, that's how little they matter.

That's not even a class thing anymore, that's a clueless, judgemental old person thing.

The funny side of this (for remembering next year) is that she didn't even get all the old rules right.

Maybe next year the other side of the family gets visited for Christmas?  Because she certainly does not represent the joy of the season.

Yes. Also, someone with good manners wouldn’t have responded so rudely to an honest question. Snobbery isn’t proper etiquette.

[Metalcat]

I'm not sure if this thread is specifically intended for relatives who don't get "FIRE" mentality, but if not, I need to vent and here's probably the best place to do it. Had sort of a Hillbilly Elegy moment I suppose...

MIL asked me to set the Christmas Eve dining table with the fine china tonight. For some context on how relaxed my MIL is about dinner, last year my ~11 year old niece was very obviously glum and bored so I thought it would be fun to make fun origami with the cloth napkins to make each place setting unique/special (but mostly to connect and give her something to do). We were really getting into it, pulling up Youtube videos and on our fourth setting... But when MIL noticed, she told us not to do it because it wasn't nice enough. And also, how would we use the napkin rings if we made origami napkins?!? So yeah, not a super laid back lady and definitely not kid-friendly or very aware of other people's needs in general.

Anyway, tonight I couldn't remember if the knife went on the inside or outside of the spoon and which side the fork went on and asked for clarification. She looked at me like I was raised in a barn and said "really?? you don't know which side they go on?" I felt like giving a charged retort something along the lines of "Lady, I was raised on food stamps for several years of my childhood and a trip to McDonald's for pancakes on Saturdays was considered a great delicacy. Give me a break and please check your privilege." Ugh, her comment really hit me wrong, made me feel belittled, and reminded me of how wide the wealth equality gap is and how that manifests itself.

*sigh* thanks for letting me share... now we return you to your scheduled relative rant programming.

She sounds like a miserable cow.

FTR, I was raised poor, but by parents who were from upper class backgrounds, and my step dad managed a private club, so I learned ALL of the stupid table rules AND knew how to do complicated cloth napkin folds, and I don't remember 90% of that shit because it doesn't matter.

Being condescending about dated bullshit that really does not matter is just ridiculous. Most restaurants these days don't even adhere to dated table-setting standards, that's how little they matter.

That's not even a class thing anymore, that's a clueless, judgemental old person thing.

The funny side of this (for remembering next year) is that she didn't even get all the old rules right.

Maybe next year the other side of the family gets visited for Christmas?  Because she certainly does not represent the joy of the season.

Yes. Also, someone with good manners wouldn’t have responded so rudely to an honest question. Snobbery isn’t proper etiquette.

In my experience etiquette often involves directly being excessively polite to people who don't know etiquette rules, but subtly making it clear to everyone else who does know them that you've noted the breach and that they should too, and quietly judge.

Even being polite can be a dick move. Lol

Some people are just miserable cows. Manners or no.

[sonofsven]

What? And how does this adjustment happen? Or rather, how has this person “invested” in these funds?

Everyone is just automagically invested. And the money just appears. Either in your bank account or by mailed check.

Can you imagine a world where everyone suddenly is $100K richer? Nah, me either. The psychology necessary to believe this has me concerned.

There were other high spending plans built into the discussion. Can't imagine where the money for these plans will come from.

And their former "flame" is going to move into a fancy house with them. I know their former flame. Flame is definitely not returning.

I came away thinking mostly about how their daydream leaked out into real life conversation with so much confidence. We're middle aged adults. It was alot like listening to a hopefully child discussing Santa Claus. Fortunately they have some good people around them if this is the opening chapters of some sort of breakdown.

Oh, tell me more! "Free beer tomorrow!'

[SwordGuy]

I checked my bank account and the extra money didn't show up yet.  Maybe I have to wait until the next business day???  :)

[NorthernIkigai]

Next time, do her place setting by the book.

And do every other place setting totally random.  Or even better, write the first initial of the person sitting there using the layout of the cutlery.
Bring along some funny cookies to fill in any bits the silverware won't handle.

Everyone else will think it's fun and she'll get the message.

What next time? If someone belittles me like this, next time they’ll get a frosty “Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be able to fulfil your standards” and I’ll keep sipping my drink and watching tv or whatever I was doing when I was asked/voluntold to set the table.

[NorthernIkigai]

What? And how does this adjustment happen? Or rather, how has this person “invested” in these funds?

Everyone is just automagically invested. And the money just appears. Either in your bank account or by mailed check.

Can you imagine a world where everyone suddenly is $100K richer? Nah, me either. The psychology necessary to believe this has me concerned.

There were other high spending plans built into the discussion. Can't imagine where the money for these plans will come from.

And their former "flame" is going to move into a fancy house with them. I know their former flame. Flame is definitely not returning.

I came away thinking mostly about how their daydream leaked out into real life conversation with so much confidence. We're middle aged adults. It was alot like listening to a hopefully child discussing Santa Claus. Fortunately they have some good people around them if this is the opening chapters of some sort of breakdown.

This is so illogical and so sad, I don’t even really know what to think.

(The “everyone is suddenly 100k richer” is a bit like those extreme devaluations where they just decide to strike out 2 or 3 zeros from the banknotes, like they’ve done in places like Argentina and Russia, only in reverse.)

[lemanfan]

What? And how does this adjustment happen? Or rather, how has this person “invested” in these funds?

Everyone is just automagically invested. And the money just appears. Either in your bank account or by mailed check.

Can you imagine a world where everyone suddenly is $100K richer? Nah, me either. The psychology necessary to believe this has me concerned.

There were other high spending plans built into the discussion. Can't imagine where the money for these plans will come from.

And their former "flame" is going to move into a fancy house with them. I know their former flame. Flame is definitely not returning.

I came away thinking mostly about how their daydream leaked out into real life conversation with so much confidence. We're middle aged adults. It was alot like listening to a hopefully child discussing Santa Claus. Fortunately they have some good people around them if this is the opening chapters of some sort of breakdown.

This is so illogical and so sad, I don’t even really know what to think.

(The “everyone is suddenly 100k richer” is a bit like those extreme devaluations where the just decide to strike out 2 or 3 zeros from the banknotes, like they’ve done in places like Argentina and Russia, only in reverse.)

Not to speak of the "pays of worldwide corporate debt".   Talk about upsetting the bond market.  :)

[maisymouser]

Aw, thanks everyone, I definitely feel better and laughed at the responses.

I knew better than to take serious offense to the table setting incident- MIL has a long history of this kind of behavior**. Another thing we have to deal with when visiting is her inability to have *any* noise in the house before 9:30AM so that she can sleep until then. Which, you know, wouldn't be a big deal but we have a 3yo who is accustomed to waking up at 7:00AM. We shift his sleep schedule but there is still a 2 1/2 hour period in the morning where we basically have to leave the house. Again, not a huge deal, but COVID has kept us from doing much of anything while visiting. Luckily the neighborhood is decked out with nice decorations.

When DS was 2, I was asked repeatedly to keep him off of the main floor of the house in the mornings (we are relegated to the basement from the hours of 10PM-9:30AM) since the pitter pattering of feet was too loud. He wasn't screaming, talking, or scraping chairs across the floor- he was WALKING.

I have no idea how this woman actually raised 2 children*. I have photographic evidence but still believe that it's possible all of it is a massive ploy.

*Spoiler: Nannies, babysitters, house cleaners heavily involved throughout DH's upbringing. He says often that he and his sister are not well adjusted because they had such an unusual upbringing.

**Why do we still visit? Eh, they're nice enough in most respects as long as we follow the relatively regimented needs of their household. DH loves them even though they drive us a bit nutty. I like to think that Christmas is just a wild ride where we try to figure out which of our families is more dysfunctional. As long as we have enough space we make do. MIL and FIL give great advice and are otherwise generous in many respects... Just not the most fun to be around for 5 days straight. Today is day 5!!

[RetiredAt63]

Aw, thanks everyone, I definitely feel better and laughed at the responses.

I knew better than to take serious offense to the table setting incident- MIL has a long history of this kind of behavior**. Another thing we have to deal with when visiting is her inability to have *any* noise in the house before 9:30AM so that she can sleep until then. Which, you know, wouldn't be a big deal but we have a 3yo who is accustomed to waking up at 7:00AM. We shift his sleep schedule but there is still a 2 1/2 hour period in the morning where we basically have to leave the house. Again, not a huge deal, but COVID has kept us from doing much of anything while visiting. Luckily the neighborhood is decked out with nice decorations.

When DS was 2, I was asked repeatedly to keep him off of the main floor of the house in the mornings (we are relegated to the basement from the hours of 10PM-9:30AM) since the pitter pattering of feet was too loud. He wasn't screaming, talking, or scraping chairs across the floor- he was WALKING.

I have no idea how this woman actually raised 2 children*. I have photographic evidence but still believe that it's possible all of it is a massive ploy.

*Spoiler: Nannies, babysitters, house cleaners heavily involved throughout DH's upbringing. He says often that he and his sister are not well adjusted because they had such an unusual upbringing.

**Why do we still visit? Eh, they're nice enough in most respects as long as we follow the relatively regimented needs of their household. DH loves them even though they drive us a bit nutty. I like to think that Christmas is just a wild ride where we try to figure out which of our families is more dysfunctional. As long as we have enough space we make do. MIL and FIL give great advice and are otherwise generous in many respects... Just not the most fun to be around for 5 days straight. Today is day 5!!

To mangle Kipling, you are a better/stronger woman than I am, Maisie Mouser.

[Mighty Eyebrows]

Snobbery isn’t proper etiquette.

True, but many people use etiquette as social signalling. It defines who they think they are and what social standing they aspire to. Related, it can also be a way of providing clear in-group and out-group behaviors to watch for in people you are not sure of. The same can be said of language usage and dialect. It makes it easier to spot people who "don't belong" in whatever your group happens to be. Breaking etiquette on purpose can be threatening (as I learned as a young person).

In print, spelling and grammar usage used to be used the same way, which is why everyone is careful in writing job applications. This has fallen away somewhat in the InstaTwitFace era, though.

[JoePublic3.14]

Next time, do her place setting by the book.

And do every other place setting totally random.  Or even better, write the first initial of the person sitting there using the layout of the cutlery.
Bring along some funny cookies to fill in any bits the silverware won't handle.

Everyone else will think it's fun and she'll get the message.

What next time? If someone belittles me like this, next time they’ll get a frosty “Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be able to fulfil your standards” and I’ll keep sipping my drink and watching tv or whatever I was doing when I was asked/voluntold to set the table.

Yeah exactly. And most importantly, make this decision right now and never think about it again. Execute the plan, and mentally move on. People like that deserve the minimum, or less…., emotional energy from the OP.

Maybe easier said than done of course.