Relatives who just don't get it

[brandon4454]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

So....did anyone have "Adopting a baby" on the my-brother-is-an-idiot-and-my-parents-enable-it bingo card? 

My brother and SIL have adopted a newborn.  While still living with my mom and dad.  Adoption wasn't exactly unexpected because SIL has always talked about wanting to adopt and they'd gone through some of the initial steps and foster parent classes before they moved in with mom and dad.  But I thought that they'd at least have tried to get their shit together before doing it.  And they convinced both my parents and a social worker to go along with it.  The plan now seems to be that they will live with mom and dad indefinitely.  Dad seems to think that in a year or two they will need more space, but I don't think it's going to work out like that.  I suspect that this isn't how they pictured spending their retirement.  At least mom isn't expected to be the full time nanny as was my first fear when they sprung the news on me four days before the baby came home from the hospital.

I get it, sometimes babies happen at the least opportune moments.  But this is an odd way of having that happen.

   How long has your brother lived away from Mom and Dads house in his life?  I'd think this would give a good idea on how long they are likely to stay. Hopefully your Dad has a garage to retreat to, as i imagine the more space they need will come out of the existing footprint. And you may get to hear about remodeling and additions grafted to the house in the future with your parents footing the bill.  But maybe the child will be the impetus for them to get their own rental place ?    Was the 0% credit card supposed to help with increased expenses ?

    In may be similar to my Dad's 2nd wife's Son. Lived in their house till age 40+, the last 14 yrs including his wife and 2 kids. They did have a period of almost 2 years where they were renting elsewhere, in a deceased relatives house before it was sold to settle the estate. Then back to Dad/2nd wife's house where they  filled the basement with clothes worn only once by the kids and themselves, according to Dads telling.
   Supposedly they paid no rent and covered only the cable bill sporadically, and some food.  They had money for decent cars and ski trips though...

   There was talk of expanding the footprint of the house-or finishing the basement and adding a bathroom with Dad paying because no-one else had $.  Eventually stepbrother took a job out of state, entry level, with an employer paid training/certification period.  Somehow within a year of being in the new location, with his wife working part-time, they could afford a brand new 5 br/ 3 ba house !!
   Dad has since complained about how his 401K manager should have warned him there would be a big tax hit, because he pulled ~ 150K out of his account which went toward the house down payment, a moving company, and paying off some daughter-in-law school loans.  This represents about 15% of dad's retirement assets, besides Social security, and a small paid off house.  At least they moved out-of-state within a year of dad retiring, at 72, so Dad and 2nd wife get some space back.
 

The tl;dr version of the story is that he moves out for college, then moved back in when he graduated (to be fair, there weren't a whole lot of PR jobs available in 2008).  He lived at home for 7-8 years before buying a house and getting married.  He and his wife lived in his house for awhile untill they moved back into mom and dad's (and brought their roommate and 4 dogs) maybe a year ago because they were financed to the hilt and were going to have trouble making payments soon.  They've got tenants in their house helping with that payment. I hope that they are getting it together, but to be honest I've seen very little evidence that this is happening. 

Dad seems to believe that they will move out in about 2 years when they need the space, but mom is pretty sure they'll be there forever (he'll inherit the house anyway).  There have been some renovations to the upstairs area where they live, but my brother has been paying for them.  How?  Who knows.  I do get the idea that the 0% card was supposed to help them dig out, but like I said, I grew up watching my parents do that every couple of years only to find themselves right back in the hole.  Thank god they both have government pensions.

I'm the first to admit that mom and dad have helped me out tremendously over the years.  I didn't get where I am on my own.  I'd like to think that most of the time I tried to not make it worse.

In the Millionaire Next Door, The author warns how "economic outpatient" care leads to poor parents and dependent adult children. Don't get me wrong. There was a year or so when I came back home because I was flat broke and needed a home to stay in while I saved up money, but I was single, working on a master's, and gone most of the day working. However, in less wealthy countries there is a family house where old, middle aged, and young all live. That is just a tough situation.

[six-car-habit]

The tl;dr version of the story is that he moves out for college, then moved back in when he graduated (to be fair, there weren't a whole lot of PR jobs available in 2008).  He lived at home for 7-8 years before buying a house and getting married.  He and his wife lived in his house for awhile untill they moved back into mom and dad's (and brought their roommate and 4 dogs) maybe a year ago because they were financed to the hilt and were going to have trouble making payments soon.  They've got tenants in their house helping with that payment. I hope that they are getting it together, but to be honest I've seen very little evidence that this is happening. 

Dad seems to believe that they will move out in about 2 years when they need the space, but mom is pretty sure they'll be there forever (he'll inherit the house anyway).  There have been some renovations to the upstairs area where they live, but my brother has been paying for them.  How?  Who knows.  I do get the idea that the 0% card was supposed to help them dig out, but like I said, I grew up watching my parents do that every couple of years only to find themselves right back in the hole.  Thank god they both have government pensions.

I'm the first to admit that mom and dad have helped me out tremendously over the years.  I didn't get where I am on my own.  I'd like to think that most of the time I tried to not make it worse.

  I take it your brother and SIL are way upside down on the house, negative equity ? .   Why else would you rent out your primary residence, leaving the means of coming up with the majority of the mortgage      { usually the main financial obligation } to renters.  Unless they hated the house, - it seems more sensible to rent out a bedroom to bring in more $$ -  than completely leave the residence.

 After a decade+ of trying to steer my Dad toward better financial / relationship / boundary decisions regarding stepbrother + 2nd wife, i realized i wasn't gaining any ground.  In retrospect, maybe dad actually got out of the shared living situation relatively cheaply by giving the big cash infusion. Although maybe now it transitions from economic Inpatient care to economic Outpatient care ?

 

[DadJokes]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

[MyOtherBrotherDarryl]

I'm only halfway through this fascinating thread but wanted to add that Neiman Marcus's holiday catalog is out. Anyone feeling stupidly spendy?

CNBC's take:

But an economic divide will still be playing out this holiday season in who can afford to spend lavishly and those who feel like they have little room to spend at all, said Easwar. Some retailers will cater to the big spenders. Their spending along with higher sticker prices will likely mask the drop among financially strapped consumers, he said.

“There are consumers that are looking to spend a lot. And if I spend $5,000 on a trip to Disney and then a few thousand dollars on fancy and expensive gifts for my family, or buy a new car... that’s going to outweigh a host of people who aren’t spending the $700 they might normally spend,” Easwar said.

...

Neiman Marcus, known for its affluent shoppers, puts out an annual holiday catalog that features over-the-top “fantasy” gifts. This year’s copy includes a 30.86-carat diamond, called the Mughal Heart, that’s going for a whopping $6.1 million. Among the listed items is a Moet & Chandon champagne vending machine on sale for $38,000. The department store said it has already sold several.

Lana Todorovich, president and chief merchandising officer at Neiman Marcus, said the company has seen its customers getting a head start on their holiday shopping this year and spending more money per transaction.

From the source:

The 2021 Fantasy Gifts were curated with a focus on celebrating family, traditions, togetherness, and a desire to shift toward a more sustainable lifestyle.

...

First, the VISTA ALEGRE PERSONALIZED DINNERWARE & PORTUGAL TRIP invites customers to explore the rich history, stunning architecture and natural beauty of Portugal all while helping to design your own bespoke fine porcelain place setting for 12 to elevate even the most experienced entertainer's tablescapes ($80,000; pages 82–83). For avid readers and dreamers alike, the LITTLE PEOPLE, BIG DREAMS™ LONDON ADVENTURE will have you and your little ones traveling to London and working closely with author Maria Isabel Sánchez Vegara and the illustrators to cowrite your own inspirational story and turn it into your very own special edition of the Little People, BIG DREAMS™ library ($35,000; pages 90–91)

...

For the forward-thinking explorers, the BARRETT-JACKSON HUMMER EV EDITION 1 makes every drive a journey to remember with this exclusive edition of the world's first fully electric super truck curated by automotive expert and Barrett-Jackson Chairman and CEO Craig Jackson. This Fantasy Gift experience includes VIP access for two to the owner's skybox and the opportunity to "drop the gavel" on the world-famous auction block at the 2022 Barrett-Jackson Scottsdale Auction ($285,000, pages 78–79).

...

And finally, WINTER MAGIC WITH LINDSEY VONN AT CALDERA HOUSE embodies the chicness of aprčs ski at Jackson Hole's premier luxury hotel and the excitement of hitting the slopes with international champion skier Lindsey Vonn with five of your closest friends, all in one unparalleled mountaintop experience ($235,000; pages 84–85).

There's more. So much more. I'm not sure we'd even spend the $700 quoted at the top, even though we can "afford" to do so, so the idea that people willingly burn many thousands of dollars on stuff they don't need blows my mind.

Black Friday begins tomorrow. Enjoy that personalized Champagne vending machine. Happy (American) Thanksgiving, my friends.

[Metalcat]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

[RetiredAt63]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

[SwordGuy]

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

The harvest was in, food was plentiful, didn't need to tend to the crops for a bit, winter hasn't started yet, so it's the perfect time for a big family get-together in an agricultural society.

[Metalcat]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

I never really thought much about it, but yeah, that would be intensely stressful!

[Kris]

This thread is going to blow up next week

I'm going to need to drink to get through Thanksgiving lunch this year.

Canadian me was like "why???? what's happening next week?"

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

I never really thought much about it, but yeah, that would be intensely stressful!

Yeah, the six weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years kind of sucks, to be honest. It is supposed to be festive, but it’s really just a bloated fest of consumerism. Do not like.

[Valley of Plenty]

Yeah, the six weeks between Thanksgiving and New Years kind of sucks, to be honest. It is supposed to be festive, but it’s really just a bloated fest of consumerism. Do not like.

"Its the most wonderful time of the year!"

[RetiredAt63]

The Americans treat Thanksgiving like Christmas, big family get-together.  Which would be fine if it weren't so close to Christmas and all the other winter solstice activities. Two big family celebrations a month apart?  Stress squared!

Canadian Thanksgiving is much better timed, close up the family cottage if there is one, put the garden to bed, start getting the yard ready for winter, find the ice scraper for the car and the shovel for the trunk (not to mention the rest of the shovels), put up the holiday lights while you can still feel your fingers and toes, and so on.    ;-)

The harvest was in, food was plentiful, didn't need to tend to the crops for a bit, winter hasn't started yet, so it's the perfect time for a big family get-together in an agricultural society.

Exactly - early October!     ;-)  Of course for those further south . . . . . .

[JoePublic3.14]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

Yeah, I’m with you. I get it a bit….it’s family, but I have limits. Pretty sure our immediate neighbor has a deadbeat adult son living with them. Just observing while doing yard work or coming and going, that is how it seems. Hope it’s working for them, but no way I could ever burden my parents by coming home. The only thing sadder to me is when I see people raising their grandchildren.

Lots of layers of complexity and if course an outsider really has no clue what is really going on.

[Dicey]

I used to love the N-M Christmas Catalog, mostly because it was dumbfounding. I haven't seen one in years, and the NM nearest me has shuttered its doors permanently. That being said, we spent two weeks in Moab recently and were absolutely gobsmacked at the number and variety of Off Road Vehicles (ORV's) and the number of trucks designed to haul them. They have an endless variety of towable RV's that accompany or even store the ORV's, hauled by even more trucks. They are like ants everywhere. The number of dollars the whole spectacle represents puts the N-M catalog to shame.

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

Yeah, I’m with you. I get it a bit….it’s family, but I have limits. Pretty sure our immediate neighbor has a deadbeat adult son living with them. Just observing while doing yard work or coming and going, that is how it seems. Hope it’s working for them, but no way I could ever burden my parents by coming home. The only thing sadder to me is when I see people raising their grandchildren.

Lots of layers of complexity and if course an outsider really has no clue what is really going on.

Thank you for admitting how much you don't know. Someone might have looked at my family and thought that my parents had a "deadbeat" son living with them, but he was my brother and we loved him and what were they supposed to do? Let him freeze to death the winter his heat was cut off during a cold snap? He did take out the garbage and do some other heavy chores around the house when he was there. It's not that he WOULDN'T live on his own. He was really and truly incapable of jumping through the hoops that you have to jump through to have stable housing and (mental) health care and nutritious food in the American system. (I'm using the past tense because he died last year- the liver is an unforgiving organ.)

That's not to say that economic outpatient care isn't real- I'm sure we could all give examples. But sometimes it's just people who Can't.

[martyconlonontherun]

I'm a pretty big churner because I like to travel. My sister lives in a wealthier community and she has major keeping up with the jones mindset where a lot of people in her group go on fancy family vacations. I help her out signing up for a few cards and how to plan the trip. She has 3 kids which makes it super hard with hotels and wants to go to some place she brag about. They are probably top 10% in earnings but have kids in private school despite being in the states best school district and probably on the lower end of their brand new subdivision.

Spend about 3 hours helping her plan and try to maximize her points despite her specific preferences and her decent size family. Basically got it do she would get a few days in Aruba with her husband on the ocean at a resort and then week in Cancun at an ocean front all inclusive. All for only a few hundred for plane fees since her husband wasn't onboard spending more money.

Talk to her this morning and asked if she booked. She said nah, they wanted nicer hotels so going to book a black Friday 'special' that would be $4-5k on the Cancun resort alone. Like im sure their 8 and 6 year old is really going to know the difference while swimming in the pool from one resort to the other. In five months I'm going to hear the same 'i want to go on a vacation but can't afford speech' and try asking for me to help again after seeing my trips that I'm getting for either free or limited out of pocket (I'm going to Calala Island later this year :) on points as a last hurrah before a second kid attempt)

[Plina]

I think that it is amazing that someone would move home to their parents as adults because they could not finance their living. And what is even more amazing is that the parents allow it. I can understand if someone does that for a couple of weeks between houses/apartments but for long term! I have done that before for a month before my apartment was vacated from renters. My parents were very clear after high school that either you study or work but it is not an option to live here free and not do anything. They would never finance our living or even accept a long term living in situation. They could borrow money if needed.

Yeah, I’m with you. I get it a bit….it’s family, but I have limits. Pretty sure our immediate neighbor has a deadbeat adult son living with them. Just observing while doing yard work or coming and going, that is how it seems. Hope it’s working for them, but no way I could ever burden my parents by coming home. The only thing sadder to me is when I see people raising their grandchildren.

Lots of layers of complexity and if course an outsider really has no clue what is really going on.

Thank you for admitting how much you don't know. Someone might have looked at my family and thought that my parents had a "deadbeat" son living with them, but he was my brother and we loved him and what were they supposed to do? Let him freeze to death the winter his heat was cut off during a cold snap? He did take out the garbage and do some other heavy chores around the house when he was there. It's not that he WOULDN'T live on his own. He was really and truly incapable of jumping through the hoops that you have to jump through to have stable housing and (mental) health care and nutritious food in the American system. (I'm using the past tense because he died last year- the liver is an unforgiving organ.)

That's not to say that economic outpatient care isn't real- I'm sure we could all give examples. But sometimes it's just people who Can't.

At least, I was referring to people that seem to be able to live by themselves. If you can adopt a child, in most of the countries, you have to be a capable adult. Mental health problems or disabilities is not comparable to people that find it easier to live on someone else money. I am sorry to hear about your brother. It is a huge problem when systems are so complicated that you have to be healthy to be able to navigate them or to have someone champion you.

[Hash Brown]

This thread is going to blow up next week

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a dad who turned into a woman. 

It's absolutely insufferable.  She can't stop name dropping and acting like she works so hard. 

She kept cheating while playing scrabble.  Specifically, she kept her phone open to an online scrabble dictionary despite us telling her we're going by the 1978 scrabble dictionary we always use. 

So what she did was throw down b.s. words under the assumption that we wouldn't challenge because we could all see that she was looking up words, and so the words must be legit. 

So I challenged her on RA.  Yes, just the letters r and a, as in the Egyptian god RA.   

The 1978 scrabble dictionary was consulted and no RA was to be found.  She then tried to intimidate me out of challenging her for the rest of the game since her tactic had been revealed.   

Late in the game, an H was dangling out there on the left side of the board, and I laid down my own r & a, forming the word RAH.  Triple word score.  Without a doubt the finest laying of Scrabble tiles in my life.  She was pissed. 

She has a degree from a pretty high-ranking university you've all heard of.  I'm sure her parents paid the full bill and she cheated her way through. 

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a parent who is a transgender woman dad who turned into a woman. 

Fixed that for you. I shan't quibble with your judgments of the value of the show or that your brother's girlfriend sounds obnoxious and I probably wouldn't like her either!

[Metalcat]

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a parent who is a transgender woman dad who turned into a woman. 

Fixed that for you. I shan't quibble with your judgments of the value of the show or that your brother's girlfriend sounds obnoxious and I probably wouldn't like her either!

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

[AlanStache]

One of my brothers dates a woman who works for...pretty much the most obnoxious reality TV family of them all.  Yes, that one with 4-5 sisters and a parent who is a transgender woman dad who turned into a woman. 

Fixed that for you. I shan't quibble with your judgments of the value of the show or that your brother's girlfriend sounds obnoxious and I probably wouldn't like her either!

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret. 

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

[Adventine]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

[Sibley]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Um, how stupid is your sister exactly? Because it's really not hard to find the Amazon prime free trial. At all. It's actually harder to avoid it than get it.

[ysette9]

Holy mother. That is mind blowing.

[lemanfan]

Once my (older but not wiser) brother excitedly reported that he had a new job opportunity with some sort of Eastern European travel agency. All he had to do was open a bank account in his name and deposit the checks they sent. Of course, he had to immediately transfer the funds to the "agent" before the aforementioned checks had cleared. I had to explain how this was a complete scam, to his utter shock and dismay. I think I caught it early before he actually did any transactions but I'm not completely sure.

In my part of the world (Sweden), we haven't really used checks since the 1990:ies and cash is quickly disappearing too.  Since criminals still need a way to tunnel money that they embezzle out of old people and other crime victims, you can read almost every week in the news about how some unsuspecting 20 year old is charged with money laundering for letting criminals use their bank account to transfer money.

When will people learn?

[snowball]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Wow, that's horrifying.  Can I ask how exactly that cascaded into draining multiple accounts?  Did the scammers just get a login that both accounts fell under, or was it more involved than that?

[Metalcat]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

[snowball]

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

Hah, I don't want to take credit for more ignorance than I have managed to sustain :P - I kind of know who they are, and I'm vaguely aware that there's a reality TV show (or maybe more than one, who knows) and lots of uninteresting-to-me-and-probably-mostly-made-up-for-the-views drama.

My primary mental referent for "Kardashian" is still "Cardassian", so when that name comes up I tend to go down a mental Star Trek rabbit hole and tune out whatever someone may be saying about the actual Kardashians.  Whoever they are.  (Okay, I do actually know the most famous one is named Kim, and there's a handful of sisters, and I think they all have K names.  It's hard to live far enough under a rock to avoid absorbing that much, even when you don't particularly want to know any of it.)

I have a giant blackout category of "I Don't Care" encompassing most of the celebrity and Hollywood world...there are a lot of apparently-household-names I don't recognize at all (the above short listing of Kardashian facts is quite extensive, for me), and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change that.  I'd rather go listen to a podcast discussing how to address the failings of the current state of scientific publishing any day.  Yay for low information diets! lol.

[Metalcat]

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

Hah, I don't want to take credit for more ignorance than I have managed to sustain :P - I kind of know who they are, and I'm vaguely aware that there's a reality TV show (or maybe more than one, who knows) and lots of uninteresting-to-me-and-probably-mostly-made-up-for-the-views drama.

My primary mental referent for "Kardashian" is still "Cardassian", so when that name comes up I tend to go down a mental Star Trek rabbit hole and tune out whatever someone may be saying about the actual Kardashians.  Whoever they are.  (Okay, I do actually know the most famous one is named Kim, and there's a handful of sisters, and I think they all have K names.  It's hard to live far enough under a rock to avoid absorbing that much, even when you don't particularly want to know any of it.)

I have a giant blackout category of "I Don't Care" encompassing most of the celebrity and Hollywood world...there are a lot of apparently-household-names I don't recognize at all (the above short listing of Kardashian facts is quite extensive, for me), and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change that.  I'd rather go listen to a podcast discussing how to address the failings of the current state of scientific publishing any day.  Yay for low information diets! lol.

I'm not faulting you at all for it, I'm just kind of gobsmacked at your capacity to stay unaware. My DH pretty much only reads The Financial Times, and even he's aware of the Kardashian-sphere as a result.

[PDXTabs]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

I too didn't catch the reference. I know that Keeping Up with the Kardashians was a show that I never watched and I know that Caitlyn Jenner ran for office but I honestly forgot that Caitlyn Jenner was in the show because I never watched it. Also, I tried not to pay attention. I guess that it worked.

[RWD]

Why not just say the Kardashians? Since it's the Kardashians.

its more mysterious that way, like we are all in the know about some secret.

Well, I had no clue who this was referring to...but when it comes to celebrity phenomena like that, I feel like I'm an alien plopped down on this planet with insufficient context to understand humanity.  I don't get it, so I ignore it.  :P  Oh hey, that makes me That Relative Who Doesn't Get It.  How on-topic of me.

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

I too didn't catch the reference. I know that Keeping Up with the Kardashians was a show that I never watched and I know that Caitlyn Jenner ran for office but I honestly forgot that Caitlyn Jenner was in the show because I never watched it. Also, I tried not to pay attention. I guess that it worked.

Wait, is Caitlyn Jenner related to the Kardashians? I literally have no clue other than having heard some names...

[Fi(re) on the Farm]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

I keep my money to myself but Mom, other sister and this one are all on each other's accounts and the same bank which my sister keeps track of on her phone. Luckily the bank stopped the transactions and froze the accounts before the money was actually gone but my family didn't know that till the next morning.

[RetiredAt63]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

I keep my money to myself but Mom, other sister and this one are all on each other's accounts and the same bank which my sister keeps track of on her phone. Luckily the bank stopped the transactions and froze the accounts before the money was actually gone but my family didn't know that till the next morning.

WHEW!!!

Good for the bank!

[RetiredAt63]

That is a rather impressive ignorance of current events, I'm actually impressed. That's a serious low information diet.

The Kardashian clan have managed to be involved in major social phenomena of the past decade, like elections, trans rights, prison reform, and the very definition of "billionaire" or "self made" for that matter.

Hah, I don't want to take credit for more ignorance than I have managed to sustain :P - I kind of know who they are, and I'm vaguely aware that there's a reality TV show (or maybe more than one, who knows) and lots of uninteresting-to-me-and-probably-mostly-made-up-for-the-views drama.

My primary mental referent for "Kardashian" is still "Cardassian", so when that name comes up I tend to go down a mental Star Trek rabbit hole and tune out whatever someone may be saying about the actual Kardashians.  Whoever they are.  (Okay, I do actually know the most famous one is named Kim, and there's a handful of sisters, and I think they all have K names.  It's hard to live far enough under a rock to avoid absorbing that much, even when you don't particularly want to know any of it.)

I have a giant blackout category of "I Don't Care" encompassing most of the celebrity and Hollywood world...there are a lot of apparently-household-names I don't recognize at all (the above short listing of Kardashian facts is quite extensive, for me), and there doesn't seem to be any reason to change that.  I'd rather go listen to a podcast discussing how to address the failings of the current state of scientific publishing any day.  Yay for low information diets! lol.

Me too.  I recognize the names but have no idea why they are famous - and don't care.

Celebrities, sports names - they all wash by me, I don't give them the energy of a click.

[AMandM]

Wait, is Caitlyn Jenner related to the Kardashians? I literally have no clue other than having heard some names...

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

[Metalcat]

Wait, is Caitlyn Jenner related to the Kardashians? I literally have no clue other than having heard some names...

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

Two, the younger of whom was on the cover of Forbes as the youngest self made billionaire in the world, which lead to a very heated debate within the financial world as to how "billionaire" is defined, and the definition of "self made". There were several articles linking the shady definitions of NW among the ultra wealthy and how Trump's NW has been defined over the years. It's actually very interesting.

[Plina]

I have nowhere to go with this except you. My idiot sister went to sign in to what she thought was an amazon 30 day trial. they told her she need to call a number which she did. She is an IDIOT who gave them EVERYTHING. She downloaded a bitcoin app and not only did they take $9000 from her but they drained two other family accounts of a quarter million! They all ask me for advice but just totally disregard it.

Out of curiosity, why would they have access to eachothers accounts? I had a power of attorney to my parents account during the per internet days when you had to visit the bank and my parents lived far away.
Well. Should make for an interesting Christmas.

You weren't a co-owner of those family accounts, were you?

I keep my money to myself but Mom, other sister and this one are all on each other's accounts and the same bank which my sister keeps track of on her phone. Luckily the bank stopped the transactions and froze the accounts before the money was actually gone but my family didn't know that till the next morning.

[snowball]

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

Two, the younger of whom was on the cover of Forbes as the youngest self made billionaire in the world, which lead to a very heated debate within the financial world as to how "billionaire" is defined, and the definition of "self made". There were several articles linking the shady definitions of NW among the ultra wealthy and how Trump's NW has been defined over the years. It's actually very interesting.

That does sound like a much more interesting conversation (to me) than stuff about who's dating whom or had plastic surgery or whatever.  I did completely miss it though.

I'm not faulting you at all for it, I'm just kind of gobsmacked at your capacity to stay unaware.

No worries, that's exactly the tone in which I read your comments, lol.

[Metalcat]

Mrs. Kardashian (the mother of all the K girls) was married to Bruce Jenner. I *think* there's a daughter from that marriage as well.

Two, the younger of whom was on the cover of Forbes as the youngest self made billionaire in the world, which lead to a very heated debate within the financial world as to how "billionaire" is defined, and the definition of "self made". There were several articles linking the shady definitions of NW among the ultra wealthy and how Trump's NW has been defined over the years. It's actually very interesting.

That does sound like a much more interesting conversation (to me) than stuff about who's dating whom or had plastic surgery or whatever.  I did completely miss it though.

That's why I was gobsmacked. They've been in the real news so often for so many years. You can know nothing about their reality nonsense, but still see a ton of political and financial coverage about them.

Just like I've never watched a single video of any of the current batch of massively wealthy and influential YouTube celebrities, but I'm aware of them as a GIANT economic force.

[rockstache]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

[zolotiyeruki]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

FWIW, I'm about as knowledgable about the Kardashians as snowball and RetiredAt63.  Is it a point of pride?  Meh, I don't know.  I lump that type of entertainment with reality TV and soap operas--its main objective is its own perpetuation, and I have more than enough more consequential things in my life to pay attention to...

[TomTX]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't generally follow celebrity news, and I select articles from the sources I do use (NYT, WaPo, BBC, Google News) - I just don't have interest in much "celebrity" stuff, so I generally just don't see it. The only recentish celebrity news I remember is an actor accidentally shooting someone on set, and beyond that it took me awhile to remember it was a Baldwin. Alex? Alec? Something like that. If I watch clips from some late-night talk show, I often don't recognize the famous people at all.

Now all that said:

Dolly Parton is an exception, shes just an awesome person - even if she's not really in the news anymore.

Ryan Reynolds is an exception. He's a national treasure and the perfect choice for Deadpool.

I am generally aware of the Kardashians branched out beyond reality TV and some have amassed a financial empire. Can't tell you which ones.

[DadJokes]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

[SwordGuy]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't think it has anything to do with sexism and has EVERYTHING to do with the Kardashians being a social celebrity juggernaut of rather epic proportions.

If there are guys in the social celebrity world that fit that same bill and I know nothing about them, I'll be equally proud to be ignorant about them, too.   

[PhilB]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

[Metalcat]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

I don't generally follow celebrity news, and I select articles from the sources I do use (NYT, WaPo, BBC, Google News) - I just don't have interest in much "celebrity" stuff, so I generally just don't see it. The only recentish celebrity news I remember is an actor accidentally shooting someone on set, and beyond that it took me awhile to remember it was a Baldwin. Alex? Alec? Something like that. If I watch clips from some late-night talk show, I often don't recognize the famous people at all.

Now all that said:

Dolly Parton is an exception, shes just an awesome person - even if she's not really in the news anymore.

Ryan Reynolds is an exception. He's a national treasure and the perfect choice for Deadpool.

I am generally aware of the Kardashians branched out beyond reality TV and some have amassed a financial empire. Can't tell you which ones.

But the news around the Kardashian clan has been so much bigger than just frivolous entertainment news. Kanye ran for president, and there were huge conversations around whether or not he could be a major disrupting force, which was entirely possible, and kind of terrifying since he was in the middle of a psychotic break.

But had be been ever so slightly more sane, he had Musk's endorsement, and could have had a serious impact. I was just kind of holding my breath to see how that played out.

Kim had meetings at the White House and brought attention to prison reform policy, which is a HUGE issue in the US right now, and she single-handedly turned millions of eyes towards it that might have never thought twice about it.

Regardless of how celebrity is obtained, once someone has that much money and that much hold over huge swaths of the population, they are a significant economic and political force.

Elon Musk's influence on things like crypto is largely because of his celebrity. He got his celebrity because of his business accomplishments, but his celebrity alone has an enormous force in and of itself. Same with any other mega celebrity.

When you're that famous, you *are* a platform. Regardless of how you got there.

I couldn't give two shits who's dating who, or who cheated on who, but I definitely take notice of someone who has the power to influence that many people, and how they choose to use or *not* use that influence.

Similarly, I don't know anything about Taylor Swift's music, but I was keenly aware when she made the choice to go from being apolitical to heavily promoting her pro-LGBTQ+ values, which was significant as she had been an alt-right, neo-nazi icon for years.

[snowball]

For what it's worth, I mostly don't follow the news in general. I've been monitoring it a bit more during the pandemic, but only because I want to be aware of where things are with vaccines and restrictions.

I'm not sure I can say anything more about Kanye other than that he's a musician I don't listen to.  I think I saw something about him running for president?  But if you hadn't said that, Malcat, I would never have remembered that piece of info on my own.

I don't at all mean this to be a flex of "look how awesome I am" in tuning out of politics and - really - the world as a whole.  I have taken it to an extreme, and I don't think there's anything particularly admirable in that.  I used to pay much more attention, many years ago, but right now when I think about going back to that level of engagement...it makes me feel deeply tired, kind of like I feel when I think about the idea of going back to my career.  Maybe after I've been FIREd longer, this part of my brain will come back.  I don't think I have had that specific type of emotional energy to spare for a long time.  I can't even bring myself to follow climate-related stuff, for the most part, and I care deeply about that.

[rockstache]

I think there's a bit of braggadocio in this community (honestly not referring to you snowperson), about not knowing Kardashian news specifically. It feels to me like it has the flavor of sexism around it but I can't quite put my finger on it. Maybe it's not so much sexism and it's more of a pride in a low-celebrity info diet, but I'm not fully convinced.

This seems like you're just looking to see sexism wherever you look.

Low information diet, particularly in regard to celebrity news and pop culture nonsense, is far more likely to be the reason. To paraphrase a personal finance person, the average millionaire doesn't know who got kicked off the island.

This.  I am aware of, and generally appalled by, the existence of celebrity culture and actively avoid it wherever possible. 

Are you suggesting such an attitude is sexist because some of the celebrities concerned are women, or because you believe that more women than men are interested in this kind of stuff and that men therefore denigrate it because they see it as a 'girl' thing, rather than because they genuinely think it's pointless, vacuous drivel?  Genuinely interested to know your thinking here

The former.

I'm not looking for sexism, and I'm not accusing anyone of being sexist for not following the news. FWIW I brought it up as a curiosity and not because I'm convinced.

I do think they are denigrated more than your typical celebrity, and I think maybe that is because of how they gained popularity initially (reality tv/sex tape)? And maybe it isn't sexism. Maybe it's slut shaming, or just a general denigrating of Insta/Youtube culture. I'm not sure and I'm too old to have a dog in the fight, but it is interesting to me that people can have conversations about Musk or Zuckerburg and it's academic, but the 'Kartrashians' are just embarrassing silliness. Again, not calling anyone out on this thread, but I have absolutely seen it on this forum.

[Hash Brown]

Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1. 


(Mod note: banned)

[Morning Glory]

Woman out-consume celebrity news as compared to men 2-1, and a bunch of that 1 is gay men, so it's closer to 3-1.

Well, men have sportsball. Kind of the same thing really.  I wonder how much of both comes from a desperate attempt to fit in and relate to one another?