Relatives who just don't get it

[Poeirenta]

@dandarc, yes they do have Roths. We were talking about their RMDs in their traditional accounts and how they are getting bigger as they get older...I think that's how we got on the conversion topic. Good to know that they don't have to let the conversions 'season' though, that's never been on my radar.

I did send an explainer link to MIL...we'll see if FIL acknowledges. Maybe he doesn't like to be wrong cuz he's a retired engineer? I say this in jest knowing the number of engineers on this forum!

[dandarc]

@dandarc, yes they do have Roths. We were talking about their RMDs in their traditional accounts and how they are getting bigger as they get older...I think that's how we got on the conversion topic. Good to know that they don't have to let the conversions 'season' though, that's never been on my radar.

I did send an explainer link to MIL...we'll see if FIL acknowledges. Maybe he doesn't like to be wrong cuz he's a retired engineer? I say this in jest knowing the number of engineers on this forum!

The "seasoning of conversions" thing is for us folks unfortunate enough to be unable to do qualified withdrawals. For qualified withdrawals, in addition to being 59.5 or older, you need to have made your very first deposit to any Roth IRA account at least 5 years ago. Most people I'd think probably check this one off without even realizing it in plenty of time before meeting the age requirement, but not 100% a given.

And yeah, as an engineer (arguably), we're wrong all the time. Impressive amount of effort goes into engineering procedures to ensure we catch the errors and correct them before big problems result.

[ixtap]

We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

[RetiredAt63]

We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

Why would saving money be against their religion?  The Bible is full of stories that admire people who use their resources wisely.  The story of the talents comes to mind, also the description of a good wife.  Yes they are more from the Old  Testament,  but still . . .

Certainly I never heard anything against saving and being financially responsible at Sunday School or church.  From what I have heard, Presbyterians/Calvinists were even more into financial responsibility than we Anglicans. 

[solon]

We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

Why would saving money be against their religion?  The Bible is full of stories that admire people who use their resources wisely.  The story of the talents comes to mind, also the description of a good wife.  Yes they are more from the Old  Testament,  but still . . .

Certainly I never heard anything against saving and being financially responsible at Sunday School or church.  From what I have heard, Presbyterians/Calvinists were even more into financial responsibility than we Anglicans.

I read that as sarcasm. As if Spending Money is their religion, so of course they can't save, that would be anathema.

[ixtap]

We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

Why would saving money be against their religion?  The Bible is full of stories that admire people who use their resources wisely.  The story of the talents comes to mind, also the description of a good wife.  Yes they are more from the Old  Testament,  but still . . .

Certainly I never heard anything against saving and being financially responsible at Sunday School or church.  From what I have heard, Presbyterians/Calvinists were even more into financial responsibility than we Anglicans.

I read that as sarcasm. As if Spending Money is their religion, so of course they can't save, that would be anathema.

Not sarcasm, just selective use of the scripture in a way that is actually pretty common among evangelicals. Lily of the fields meets the camel attempting to traverse the eye of the needle. See also, Matthew 6:34. This is one reason that the televangelists can get others to send them money -  you shouldn't have money, so send it to us, like the widow giving her last mite at the temple (the other biggie being if you send money to us, it will come back to you multiplied, because God works in mysterious ways. Please ignore everything Jesus said about earthly riches, what he meant to say was that money is God's way of showing his favor).

Nothing in there about hoarding useless crap, just hoarding of riches, you see...

[2Cent]

.......
Not sarcasm, just selective use of the scripture in a way that is actually pretty common among evangelicals. Lily of the fields meets the camel attempting to traverse the eye of the needle. See also, Matthew 6:34. This is one reason that the televangelists can get others to send them money -  you shouldn't have money, so send it to us, like the widow giving her last mite at the temple (the other biggie being if you send money to us, it will come back to you multiplied, because God works in mysterious ways. Please ignore everything Jesus said about earthly riches, what he meant to say was that money is God's way of showing his favor).

Nothing in there about hoarding useless crap, just hoarding of riches, you see...

Ah. The story of the rich man who enlarged his storehouses and stockpiled grain so he could have enough for the rest of his life only to die just when the work was complete. This is my nightmare. I'm saving and saving and then die just when I'm about to be FI. Of course the point in the story was that the rich man ignored the beggar at his doorstep, but still.

[RetiredAt63]

.......
Not sarcasm, just selective use of the scripture in a way that is actually pretty common among evangelicals. Lily of the fields meets the camel attempting to traverse the eye of the needle. See also, Matthew 6:34. This is one reason that the televangelists can get others to send them money -  you shouldn't have money, so send it to us, like the widow giving her last mite at the temple (the other biggie being if you send money to us, it will come back to you multiplied, because God works in mysterious ways. Please ignore everything Jesus said about earthly riches, what he meant to say was that money is God's way of showing his favor).

Nothing in there about hoarding useless crap, just hoarding of riches, you see...

Ah. The story of the rich man who enlarged his storehouses and stockpiled grain so he could have enough for the rest of his life only to die just when the work was complete. This is my nightmare. I'm saving and saving and then die just when I'm about to be FI. Of course the point in the story was that the rich man ignored the beggar at his doorstep, but still.

And ignores that Egypt kept grain stores so people wouldn't starve when the harvest was bad.  Individuals did the same as much as they could.

If we look at it impartially, Jesus was a wandering preacher living on the charity of others.  If no-one had any resources saved then no-one would have the spare resources to feed him.

[rebel_quietude]

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That doesn't sound like a partner, that sounds like a man-child. This conversation seems a lot like the ones that occurred at the beginning of the end of my sister's marriage.

I wish you the best of luck, but I also hope you give yourself permission not to drown (emotionally or financially) taking care of another adult. I obviously don't know your exact circumstances, but in my sister's case, it soon became clear she could take care of herself and her kids or her spouse . . .but not all three. As @Malcat already inferred - partners seek to lighten each other's burdens, not exacerbate them.

[Sugaree]

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That doesn't sound like a partner, that sounds like a man-child. This conversation seems a lot like the ones that occurred at the beginning of the end of my sister's marriage.

I wish you the best of luck, but I also hope you give yourself permission not to drown (emotionally or financially) taking care of another adult. I obviously don't know your exact circumstances, but in my sister's case, it soon became clear she could take care of herself and her kids or her spouse . . .but not all three. As @Malcat already inferred - partners seek to lighten each other's burdens, not exacerbate them.

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

[Epor]

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That doesn't sound like a partner, that sounds like a man-child. This conversation seems a lot like the ones that occurred at the beginning of the end of my sister's marriage.

I wish you the best of luck, but I also hope you give yourself permission not to drown (emotionally or financially) taking care of another adult. I obviously don't know your exact circumstances, but in my sister's case, it soon became clear she could take care of herself and her kids or her spouse . . .but not all three. As @Malcat already inferred - partners seek to lighten each other's burdens, not exacerbate them.

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

You may... or may not. Do get a free consultation with a layer in your state: even if the partner is not currently working, child support calculations can use what the partner COULD be making if employed. You mention disability: is he getting some government support? If so that money is income and will be used on the child support calculations. If he is not "officially" disabled, lawyers and court might just use the $$ he used to make. Because he is currently unemployed you might have to pay alimony for 1-2 years.

PS: I am not suggesting you go and file for divorce or anything; just that you know the facts for your specific case.

[rebel_quietude]

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

Agree with consulting a lawyer, and just . . . good luck. That doesn't sound like a fun situation, and I hope you're able to navigate through it in a way that's good for you and your kid.

I will say if you're sure one way or another, don't procrastinate. In my state, alimony issues don't get any better with time.

[Morning Glory]

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

This all sounds very familiar. A few months ago I actually went as far as consulting a lawyer and he said the best thing that can happen is my husband gets a job. I have a lot of complicating factors that make the decision really hard, as I'm sure you do too.

  I've gotten a lot of good advice and support from members of the forum, including differing perspectives. Not sure if you have a journal but they are great if you need advice or just need to vent, plus they aren't searchable unless you are logged into the forum. You can check out mine but it's a bit rambly so I understand if you don't want to read the whole thing.

[PDXTabs]

I will say if you're sure one way or another, don't procrastinate. In my state, alimony issues don't get any better with time.

Also, splitting your gains. The gains are just getting bigger if you are hanging out around here.

[NYExpat]

I would highly recommend the book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson. It's saving my wife's sanity after years of crap and childish behavior from her dad. Part of it is reminding people that you can't help people who don't want to be helped, and it's OK to nope out for your own well-being.

Now for the juicy stuff.  My F-I-L has a sister who he hasn't talked to much in years. She moved back to their home town. In casual conversation she mentions she's getting evicted. Later I get the backstory. It sounds like both her and her husband were getting unemployment for a while, but with the COVID eviction ban they stopped paying rent for a year and now owe ~10K in back rent. The water heater died and the landlord won't replace it. They decide to join Planet Fitness so they have a place to take warm showers.  They showed up to chat with my FIL eating McDonalds.

I'm so thankful that my wife didn't end up an emotional & financial train wreck of a human being

[Sugaree]

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

This all sounds very familiar. A few months ago I actually went as far as consulting a lawyer and he said the best thing that can happen is my husband gets a job. I have a lot of complicating factors that make the decision really hard, as I'm sure you do too.

  I've gotten a lot of good advice and support from members of the forum, including differing perspectives. Not sure if you have a journal but they are great if you need advice or just need to vent, plus they aren't searchable unless you are logged into the forum. You can check out mine but it's a bit rambly so I understand if you don't want to read the whole thing.

He started seeing a therapist last week.  I'm going to give that some time before I make any hard decisions.  He also needs to get a job, like yesterday.  I make decent money for where we live, but an extra $100/week would make a HUGE difference in meeting goals for the next year or so.

[2Cent]

@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

[OtherJen]

Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral.

Yeah, I can understand those nuances, I'm in a single income household where the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled in their 30s.

I still don't get how you manage without losing your shit.

Who says I haven't lost my shit?

Good point.

Suffice to say, you have my sympathy. FTR, I'm the disabled one in my marriage, and can't fathom putting that kind of added pressure on my spouse.

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

Ah, @2Cent , I'm assuming you've been partnered with someone who meets the above description? Wanting them to deal with their issues is not a gender thing. It's a "partner is being irrational and actively making things more difficult" thing. Based on the mention of a therapist, I suspect that there are long-untreated mental health issues. Those can be hell on a marriage.

@Sugaree , I wish you all the best. You might also consider therapy for yourself, if you can swing it financially and time-wise.

[rebel_quietude]

@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out.

@2Cent

Yes, I would "suggest" that to a woman, and have.

Partnership is partnership, not exploitation. I don't hold with women being excluded from financial decisions, excluded from work, or getting away with treating partners poorly.

Different strokes for different folks. A couple having their own way of dividing responsibility for finances, kids, and external employment, does not carry the same implications as a partner who does not perceive themselves as equally liable for the success of  the partnership.

 I do believe "work" includes childcare, if that's how the couple in question chooses to divide labor. Which means I'm also a fan of male homemakers, if that's how a couple chooses to divide labor. Key words being "couple chooses," and "divide."

[Metalcat]

@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

There's a HUGE difference between a partner who won't work and a partner who doesn't work because both members of the relationship have decided that that's what's best for their family unit.

HUUUUUUGE difference.

This isn't a gender thing. Many threads have come up over the years where it was the woman who was refusing to get a job, and the response here has actually been even more aggressive against those women. So no, there is no free pass in this community for any spouse who chooses not to work without the support of their spouse.

We only have a very tiny part of the story, but based on what we've been told, I'm not going to jump to conclusions that the person sharing their pain and frustration is just uncaring and unreasonable.

Even if mental health issues are at play, it's very possible for someone who can't work to still pull their weight as a partner, even if that just means focusing on their own mental health care and being mindful of the impact it has on the other person.

And the person sharing here doesn't sound like someone who feels like their needs are being very considered by their partner.

For the record, I *am* the non working partner in my marriage, and I take the burden of my illness on my partner very, very seriously. It my obligation to take care of myself as best I can, to get whatever mental health help I need, and to care deeply about how my illness affects my spouse.

A lot of marriages work optimally with only one partner working, for various reasons, but this person's marriage obviously isn't one of them.

We don't know why exactly, but again, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that their pain and struggle isn't legitimate. Not unless they give me specific information to believe that.

[Sugaree]

@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

There's a HUGE difference between a partner who won't work and a partner who doesn't work because both members of the relationship have decided that that's what's best for their family unit.

HUUUUUUGE difference.

This isn't a gender thing. Many threads have come up over the years where it was the woman who was refusing to get a job, and the response here has actually been even more aggressive against those women. So no, there is no free pass in this community for any spouse who chooses not to work without the support of their spouse.

We only have a very tiny part of the story, but based on what we've been told, I'm not going to jump to conclusions that the person sharing their pain and frustration is just uncaring and unreasonable.

Even if mental health issues are at play, it's very possible for someone who can't work to still pull their weight as a partner, even if that just means focusing on their own mental health care and being mindful of the impact it has on the other person.

And the person sharing here doesn't sound like someone who feels like their needs are being very considered by their partner.

For the record, I *am* the non working partner in my marriage, and I take the burden of my illness on my partner very, very seriously. It my obligation to take care of myself as best I can, to get whatever mental health help I need, and to care deeply about how my illness affects my spouse.

A lot of marriages work optimally with only one partner working, for various reasons, but this person's marriage obviously isn't one of them.

We don't know why exactly, but again, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that their pain and struggle isn't legitimate. Not unless they give me specific information to believe that.

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy. 

[Metalcat]

@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

There's a HUGE difference between a partner who won't work and a partner who doesn't work because both members of the relationship have decided that that's what's best for their family unit.

HUUUUUUGE difference.

This isn't a gender thing. Many threads have come up over the years where it was the woman who was refusing to get a job, and the response here has actually been even more aggressive against those women. So no, there is no free pass in this community for any spouse who chooses not to work without the support of their spouse.

We only have a very tiny part of the story, but based on what we've been told, I'm not going to jump to conclusions that the person sharing their pain and frustration is just uncaring and unreasonable.

Even if mental health issues are at play, it's very possible for someone who can't work to still pull their weight as a partner, even if that just means focusing on their own mental health care and being mindful of the impact it has on the other person.

And the person sharing here doesn't sound like someone who feels like their needs are being very considered by their partner.

For the record, I *am* the non working partner in my marriage, and I take the burden of my illness on my partner very, very seriously. It my obligation to take care of myself as best I can, to get whatever mental health help I need, and to care deeply about how my illness affects my spouse.

A lot of marriages work optimally with only one partner working, for various reasons, but this person's marriage obviously isn't one of them.

We don't know why exactly, but again, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that their pain and struggle isn't legitimate. Not unless they give me specific information to believe that.

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy.

You have my sympathy and support.

[PDXTabs]

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy.

He sounds a lot like my first wife, who I have kids with. We get along just fine now that we aren't married/living together. Of course I pay a bunch of child support because she never got it together financially, but that probably wouldn't be the case for you.

[Sugaree]

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy.

He sounds a lot like my first wife, who I have kids with. We get along just fine now that we aren't married/living together. Of course I pay a bunch of child support because she never got it together financially, but that probably wouldn't be the case for you.

For all his faults, he did fix both the dryer and the air conditioner yesterday. 

[Sugaree]

My little brother called me yesterday wanting to know if I belong to some credit union that I'm apparently qualified for because if I am then he can qualify through me.  It turns out that he's trying to get some 0% interest no transfer fee credit card.  I've suspected that there was probably some credit card debt to go along with his other mountain of payments, but this kind of confirmed it.  I'd say that maybe it's a good thing he's trying to take care of it, but to be honest we both watched our parents cycle through the credit card trap of running the cards up, doing something drastic to pay them off, close all but one "for emergencies" and then rinse and repeat.  I suspect that's how this will end up.  It's funny how two people can grow up in the same household with the same influences and make completely opposite decisions.  But then again I guess it's always been that way.  He'd blow his allowance and then whine to Mom about how I wouldn't let him play with my Nintendo that I bought with the money I saved up.

[Zamboni]

^I pretty much always go along with that kind of "referral" stuff from family unless I see a big downside for me. Makes thenm happy and doesn't really cost me anything except a few minutes, which I am okay with devoting to their happiness.

This is why I currently have $58 and change sitting in a Robinhood Acct in cryptocurrency, lol. I've also periodically had all of the phone money transfer apps from the "they get $10 and you get $10" referrals from family. Most of the time I transfer the "bonus" money back to my normal account and then just close the thing within a month.

[Sugaree]

@Zamboni, he hasn't straight up asked me to join.  I'm not sure I'm interested in having yet another bank account, especially one where the closest branch is an hour and half away and seems to require a direct deposit.  I suspect that he'll end up talking dad into it since he's also eligible. 

[Zamboni]

it's a pain for sure. Obviously I really love these people! If he can get someone else to do it, though, all the better.

[brandon4454]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

[TheFrenchCat]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

Wow.  My dad loves boating and fishing too, so he owns a boat, but he paid for it in cash. And that was $26k, and it's a decent size boat, so I'd imagine a $70k boat is pretty huge and/or fancy.  Also, did not know you could trade in boats, or get boat loans for that matter.  I just assumed that anyone who'd get one could afford to pay for it in cash, especially since owning and maintaining them is so expensive.

Course I was well into my teens before I knew you could finance cars, since my family has always paid cash, even when we were poorer.  So I'm probably not the best source of what can or can't be financed.

[ixtap]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

Wow.  My dad loves boating and fishing too, so he owns a boat, but he paid for it in cash. And that was $26k, and it's a decent size boat, so I'd imagine a $70k boat is pretty huge and/or fancy.  Also, did not know you could trade in boats, or get boat loans for that matter.  I just assumed that anyone who'd get one could afford to pay for it in cash, especially since owning and maintaining them is so expensive.

Course I was well into my teens before I knew you could finance cars, since my family has always paid cash, even when we were poorer.  So I'm probably not the best source of what can or can't be financed.

If your boat has a galley, head and place to sleep, you may even be able to count the boat loan as a mortgage on a second home.

[PDXTabs]

I met my girlfriends sister for the first time a couple of weeks ago. Before we meet my girlfriend explains that they love to go out on the boat and that her parents financed their first boat. They traded that boat in for a used $70k boat so now they have two boat loans.

They overspend on housing and cars, but do you really need to go into that much debt over a luxury?

Wow.  My dad loves boating and fishing too, so he owns a boat, but he paid for it in cash. And that was $26k, and it's a decent size boat, so I'd imagine a $70k boat is pretty huge and/or fancy.  Also, did not know you could trade in boats, or get boat loans for that matter.  I just assumed that anyone who'd get one could afford to pay for it in cash, especially since owning and maintaining them is so expensive.

Course I was well into my teens before I knew you could finance cars, since my family has always paid cash, even when we were poorer.  So I'm probably not the best source of what can or can't be financed.

If your boat has a galley, head and place to sleep, you may even be able to count the boat loan as a mortgage on a second home.

Yup: https://www.nuventurecpa.com/blog/tag/can+i+write+off+the+interest+on+my+boat+loan

And at least sailboats depreciate much slower than cars, but have far more upkeep.

[ixtap]

We paid cash for our boat, but we have certain family members capable of simultaneously believing that we are frivolous for owning a boat and depriving ourselves by choosing to live on our boat...

[Mighty Eyebrows]

And at least sailboats depreciate much slower than cars, but have far more upkeep.

"A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into."

"The second happiest day of a boat-owner's life is the day they buy the boat..."

[La Bibliotecaria Feroz]

And at least sailboats depreciate much slower than cars, but have far more upkeep.

"A boat is a hole in the water that you throw money into."

"The second happiest day of a boat-owner's life is the day they buy the boat..."

My father used to say that boats are like children. The happiest days are the day you bring them home, and "the day you get rid of them."*

*Said with affection, Daddy is a man who likes his jokes blunt.

[Yanisimo]

Not my relatives, but close friends: My friend bought a < $2K Peloton bike for her husband. They're upper middle class, workaholics, spend a lot of what they earn, and contribute the bare minimum to their retirement accounts. They're flashy people who like to put on a show for others. Anyway, my friend's husband is showing me all the online features of the Peloton bike. He remarks that the online features are free. The wife corrects him. It's not free. Husband is taken aback, asks how much they are paying per month. My friend is uncomfortable, but eventually admits the bike is on a monthly payment plan and in total they spend over $100/month, which is a lot of money according to my friend's husband. I could see the pride in the bike fade from his face. I was prettty shocked they couldn't afford to buy the $1,700 bike outright given their salaries. A few months prior they bought a Big Green Egg, outdoor patio furniture set, and an outdoor propane heater. My friend voluntarily worked overtime to pay for it all, but not the husband because she wanted that stuff, not him. They don't spend much time with their kids as it is. It baffles me that they choose to work more hours to afford things they don't need, and to afford the nanny and maid that are hired to assist with childcare and housekeeping duties because the couple works too many hours. They know about my FIRE plans, and don't think it's for them because they think they'd get bored drinking martinis all day.

[dcheesi]

Not my relatives, but close friends: My friend bought a < $2K Peloton bike for her husband. They're upper middle class, workaholics, spend a lot of what they earn, and contribute the bare minimum to their retirement accounts. They're flashy people who like to put on a show for others. Anyway, my friend's husband is showing me all the online features of the Peloton bike. He remarks that the online features are free. The wife corrects him. It's not free. Husband is taken aback, asks how much they are paying per month. My friend is uncomfortable, but eventually admits the bike is on a monthly payment plan and in total they spend over $100/month, which is a lot of money according to my friend's husband. I could see the pride in the bike fade from his face. I was prettty shocked they couldn't afford to buy the $1,700 bike outright given their salaries. A few months prior they bought a Big Green Egg, outdoor patio furniture set, and an outdoor propane heater. My friend voluntarily worked overtime to pay for it all, but not the husband because she wanted that stuff, not him. They don't spend much time with their kids as it is. It baffles me that they choose to work more hours to afford things they don't need, and to afford the nanny and maid that are hired to assist with childcare and housekeeping duties because the couple works too many hours. They know about my FIRE plans, and don't think it's for them because they think they'd get bored drinking martinis all day.

The crazy thing about Peloton is that they charge way too much for the equipment, and then they also charge a monthly "membership" fee for the online content! So even if they did pay outright for the bike, they'd still be paying something every month.

Given that, it probably seemed more convenient to put the whole purchase on the monthly plan (and tbf, it looks like the payment plan doesn't extract much of a premium vs. the up-front purchase price).

[ysette9]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing. 

[DadJokes]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

[Kris]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

[SwordGuy]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

At times like this I say things like, "What part of " -- enunciate the next part word by word, very distinctly -- "'we are not interested' did you not understand?"

[Adventine]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

Some people don't know how to express their enthusiasm in any other way ;)

[ixtap]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

Some people don't know how to express their enthusiasm in any other way ;)

DH has a high school friend who is the only one to reach out and keep up with him. But he lives in a different world. We couldn't convince him we didn't actually have reliable internet service when he first got excited about Alexa, so no, it wasn't (and still isn't) something we are interested in.

[PDXTabs]

I have never tried an indoor bike so I don’t get it at all. But when I see threads on my women’s finance FB group on what products or services people love the most this one regularly is mentioned. So clearly there is something there I am missing.

My wife's sister has tried to talk us into getting a Peloton multiple times.

If only "we're not interested" could get through to her...

What is the deal with people trying to convince other people to buy things? Like, I would never say, Hey, we have this object and so you should, too. It would just never, ever occur to me. So odd.

Some people don't know how to express their enthusiasm in any other way ;)

I can be a little bit like this when I find a new product. Recently I discovered umbrellas (they aren't really in use in the PNW). So now I tell everyone I meet how awesome it is to own an umbrella. Guilty as charged.

[Taran Wanderer]

Yeah, the PNW is funny about umbrellas. If it’s not windy, it’s usually not raining hard enough to justify an umbrella just to get from point A to point B, though they can be useful for a soccer game or something where you’re outside for hours. If it truly is raining hard enough for an umbrella to be useful, it’s usually blowing sideways and A) the umbrella doesn’t keep you dry, and B) you might not have an intact umbrella by the time you make it from the car to your destination.

[PDXTabs]

Yeah, the PNW is funny about umbrellas. If it’s not windy, it’s usually not raining hard enough to justify an umbrella just to get from point A to point B, though they can be useful for a soccer game or something where you’re outside for hours. If it truly is raining hard enough for an umbrella to be useful, it’s usually blowing sideways and A) the umbrella doesn’t keep you dry, and B) you might not have an intact umbrella by the time you make it from the car to your destination.

That's certainly the story that I grew up with. But I've been paying attention lately and while it is true that sometimes it is too windy to use one, most of the time I can. However, I am doing some of those long outdoor activities (well, walking). But I've absolutely been in a downpour in the last month holding my umbrella with no wind to speak of in SE Portland.

[ysette9]

I lived in Bretagne in France for a year that has climate similar to the PNW and people definitely didn’t use umbrellas there also. I got the sense they were deeply uncool.

[Morning Glory]

Yeah, the PNW is funny about umbrellas. If it’s not windy, it’s usually not raining hard enough to justify an umbrella just to get from point A to point B, though they can be useful for a soccer game or something where you’re outside for hours. If it truly is raining hard enough for an umbrella to be useful, it’s usually blowing sideways and A) the umbrella doesn’t keep you dry, and B) you might not have an intact umbrella by the time you make it from the car to your destination.

That's certainly the story that I grew up with. But I've been paying attention lately and while it is true that sometimes it is too windy to use one, most of the time I can. However, I am doing some of those long outdoor activities (well, walking). But I've absolutely been in a downpour in the last month holding my umbrella with no wind to speak of in SE Portland.

I'm in one of the windiest places in the US and I bought an umbrella with vents so that the wind can pass through but not water. (that's after wearing out two cheap ones because they kept turning inside out). If it's that bad out it only keeps my head and shoulders dry though. Sometimes I use my umbrella as a shield while walking so my face doesn't get pummeled with rain/sleet.

[swaneesr]

I had no idea umbrellas were cool or not cool.

When traveling to Singapore there was often an after lunch major rain storm.

My umbrella always seemed to get left with my PC backpack……and not with me at the hawker stand for lunch.

Umbrellas don’t work for me because apparently I am unable to keep it close when needed.

As far as being cool?  Ask my wife, I am definitely not the cool one.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ysette9]

After being here in the PNW and upgrading our outdoor gear I begin to understand why people here don’t do umbrellas. You don’t need them much if your gear is good. And with little kids I often don’t have a spare hand available to hold Yet Another Thing.