Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3461364 times)

Adventine

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6450 on: July 08, 2021, 07:12:24 AM »
I've probably mentioned that I've got an uncle who has a long history of making bad decisions, most of which involve money and/or women.  It's official.  He's bringing his fiancée over from Central America at the end of the month on a K1 visa.  So, I guess within the next 3 months or so I'll have a new aunt who's younger than me.  This will be wife #4.  And my uncle has had to go back to work at 67 in order to have the sufficient funds to sponsor her and her kids.

As a former K1 visa applicant myself, and currently going through the labyrinth called US immigration, your uncle and his new wife and stepkids are most likely going to have problems.

On top of whatever travel, visa, relocation, and wedding expenses they've already incurred, they will also need to file for adjustment of status (AOS) shortly after the foreign citizens' arrival in the US. This will cost a minimum of USD 1,225 for the foreign citizen fiancee and USD 750 - 1225 per child, depending on their ages (source). If they don't file for AOS, the fiancee and her kids won't have any kind of legal status in the US.

Moreover, K1 visa holders aren't authorized to work in the US until they get either a work permit (EAD) or a green card. With COVID delays, EADs are taking 6-12 months to be issued. Green cards are taking up to two years.

I'm part of another immigration forum where I see sob stories every day about US spouses and foreign beneficiaries who didn't understand the implications of the K1 visa, couldn't afford to file for AOS and/or couldn't afford to have only one income earner. Sometimes the marriages break down because of the strain.

Adults are free to screw up their finances however they want, but it's heartbreaking when kids are involved. They're uprooted from their home countries, brought to a foreign country, and end up with no legal status because their parents weren't prepared.

If you have the chance to talk to your uncle about all this before his fiancee's arrival, I highly recommend that you do.

Unfortunately, he's never taken advice well, so I'm not sure how well this will go.  I'm actually a bit concerned about the kids.  They are like 8 and 2.  They swear that they aren't my uncle's kids, though I think the youngest looks a lot like my cousin did as a baby.  But the person listed on the birth certificate "isn't involved" so I dont know if he's even been told the kids are leaving.  I would assume he would have to be, but who knows.  Oh, and did I mention that my uncle owes the IRS a metric ton of money.

That could be a problem. Depending on their home country's laws, the mother may need the bio dad's consent for the kids to immigrate to the US. If she takes them without the bio dad's consent, she could be charged with kidnapping.

On the other hand, if the kids are actually your uncle's biological children, they may qualify to be US citizens. I'm going to assume that your uncle is 100% sure that they aren't his biological kids, and therefore the kids have K2 visas tied to their mother's K1 visa.

Immigration stuff aside, this is one potential family disaster I hope I never read about on the MMM forum.

It's already a mess and I'm very much not my circus about this whole situation.  He says he has an attorney, so hopefully it's a good one who is giving him all this information.  My mother is concerned that she's going to somehow end up financially responsible, which I've told her shouldn't be a problem as long as she doesn't sign any legal agreements. 

Out of curiosity, what happens if the citizen spouse dies before the immigrant spouse gets citizenship?

You're right. Your mother shouldn't sign any legal agreements and should not agree to become what is called a joint sponsor, which can be required by the government if they determine that your uncle cannot financially support his new family. You can read about the legal obligations of the primary sponsor (your uncle) and any potential joint sponsor on page 6 of this document: Form I-864 (Affidavit of Support).

If the US citizen spouse dies, the immigrant spouse still has a chance to acquire US citizenship but will have to prove that they had a bonafide marriage, as well as maintain legal residency in the US for some years. The exact requirements will vary depending on how far along they are in the immigration process by the time the US citizen passes away.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6451 on: July 09, 2021, 04:46:05 PM »
That said, we probably won't get another dog. They're so restricting. I can't stay out too long on a particular day, because we have to get home to let the dog out. It's actually more hassle to find care for the dog when we want to take a vacation than it is to get the in-laws to watch our toddler.
Dog owning friends are the answer.  My dog does very badly in kennels (it's how I got him: I happened to be in contact with the RSPCA the week he came in to their kennels and he was so upset they wanted him out as soon as possible) so I've made sure to build up a network of dog-owning people I meet out walking so that we can swop dog-sitting favours.  It's important the dog is sociable with people and other dogs and reasonably well trained, of course.
This stresses me out.  Our dog is NOT good with other dogs or people, and we are going on vacation for 2 weeks...my friends think that boarding at the Humane Society is depressing.  Which, yah.  But she came from there, and she'll have her own little private enclosure...

But our first attempt will be to get someone to house and dog sit who KNOWS dogs, and will just give her space.

auntie_betty

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6452 on: July 09, 2021, 11:36:57 PM »
There is a reason all my cats have been adult adoptees.  Kittens are so cute, with their needle-sharp teeth and their needle-sharp claws, and their nocturnal play time.


I'd never had a cat, let alone a kitten, when we got ours.

I was worried he'd be scared and hide from us.

By day 2 when he was zooming up the curtains for the 5th time I was the one hiding.

Now he's grown up I miss his kitten antics. He's much too cool to do stuff like that now :( .

ambimammular

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6453 on: July 11, 2021, 01:53:38 PM »
Kitten fostering is the best! It was on my early retirement bucket list and when Covid put me at home all day, I figured, why wait? I've kept 9 babies out of the shelter and found them homes, with 3 more close to ready.

I highly recommend a pet tent (or pet playpen) when they're not yet ready for the whole house (or need quarentining), and for overnights. You can leave their food available for them all night, so they won't be meowing for you in the early AM.

It feels like such a privilage that I get to take these hilarious puffballs home with me, and then move them along when the time is right.

Metalcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6454 on: July 11, 2021, 08:55:14 PM »
Kitten fostering is the best! It was on my early retirement bucket list and when Covid put me at home all day, I figured, why wait? I've kept 9 babies out of the shelter and found them homes, with 3 more close to ready.

I highly recommend a pet tent (or pet playpen) when they're not yet ready for the whole house (or need quarentining), and for overnights. You can leave their food available for them all night, so they won't be meowing for you in the early AM.

It feels like such a privilage that I get to take these hilarious puffballs home with me, and then move them along when the time is right.

Ugh, if I wasn't allergic to cat fur, I would so foster cats.

Alas, the only cats I can have are hairless or nearly hairless, and they don't tend to end up homeless and needing foster care.

pasadenafr

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6455 on: July 12, 2021, 08:43:23 AM »
Kitten fostering is the best! It was on my early retirement bucket list and when Covid put me at home all day, I figured, why wait? I've kept 9 babies out of the shelter and found them homes, with 3 more close to ready.

I highly recommend a pet tent (or pet playpen) when they're not yet ready for the whole house (or need quarentining), and for overnights. You can leave their food available for them all night, so they won't be meowing for you in the early AM.

It feels like such a privilage that I get to take these hilarious puffballs home with me, and then move them along when the time is right.

Fostering cats (both kittens and adults) saved my sanity during the pandemic. It's a lot of work, but it's SO MUCH FUN. There's nothing like having 3 kittens on your keyboard when you're on video calls all day, then getting all the furry, purry cuddles.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6456 on: July 12, 2021, 11:50:22 AM »
Kitten fostering is the best! It was on my early retirement bucket list and when Covid put me at home all day, I figured, why wait? I've kept 9 babies out of the shelter and found them homes, with 3 more close to ready.

I highly recommend a pet tent (or pet playpen) when they're not yet ready for the whole house (or need quarentining), and for overnights. You can leave their food available for them all night, so they won't be meowing for you in the early AM.

It feels like such a privilage that I get to take these hilarious puffballs home with me, and then move them along when the time is right.

Fostering cats (both kittens and adults) saved my sanity during the pandemic. It's a lot of work, but it's SO MUCH FUN. There's nothing like having 3 kittens on your keyboard when you're on video calls all day, then getting all the furry, purry cuddles.

I'm afraid that if I fostered kittens, I'd never let them go. On the other hand, the one kitten we ever had turned into a psycho cat (to everyone but me). We now have a cat sharing  arrangement with my sister-in-law, so we have him Wednesday evening thru Sunday afternoon most weeks. He's 11, and the best cat ever!


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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6457 on: July 12, 2021, 01:44:55 PM »
That said, we probably won't get another dog. They're so restricting. I can't stay out too long on a particular day, because we have to get home to let the dog out. It's actually more hassle to find care for the dog when we want to take a vacation than it is to get the in-laws to watch our toddler.
Dog owning friends are the answer.  My dog does very badly in kennels (it's how I got him: I happened to be in contact with the RSPCA the week he came in to their kennels and he was so upset they wanted him out as soon as possible) so I've made sure to build up a network of dog-owning people I meet out walking so that we can swop dog-sitting favours.  It's important the dog is sociable with people and other dogs and reasonably well trained, of course.
This stresses me out.  Our dog is NOT good with other dogs or people, and we are going on vacation for 2 weeks...my friends think that boarding at the Humane Society is depressing.  Which, yah.  But she came from there, and she'll have her own little private enclosure...

But our first attempt will be to get someone to house and dog sit who KNOWS dogs, and will just give her space.

Maybe I'm heard-hearted or something, but most all dogs will be fine during a temporary kennel stay. I mean, they are dogs. as long as they are getting food, water, some exercise and some socialization, they will be okay.

Our pup stayed at a "pup hotel" type place (about $50/night) during our recent NYC trip, and he was fine. Lots of places offer the "all day play" type of model where your dog is playing with other dogs in an outside area or an inside area most of the day. They get shade, water, etc. I didn't feel guilty at all.

Now if our pup was going to be inside his cage like 23 hours a day, then YES I would feel guilty as hell then (we wouldn't do that). I think it's just a matter of finding the right place.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6458 on: July 12, 2021, 02:41:12 PM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6459 on: July 13, 2021, 02:16:44 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

I 100% agree with you on all three points here.

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6460 on: July 13, 2021, 04:38:49 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.
Do you have Netflix? I just watched the credit card episode of "Money, Explained". It scared the crap out of me and I never carry a balance. For someone like your husband, it's sure to be a real eye opener.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6461 on: July 13, 2021, 05:35:01 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.
Do you have Netflix? I just watched the credit card episode of "Money, Explained". It scared the crap out of me and I never carry a balance. For someone like your husband, it's sure to be a real eye opener.

Ohh..I haven't seen that show yet.  Thanks for the recommendation.  It's not that he doesn't know, he's just fallen into that trap of watching people buy things that they can't really afford. 

Uturn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6462 on: July 13, 2021, 06:01:34 AM »
Do you have Netflix? I just watched the credit card episode of "Money, Explained". It scared the crap out of me and I never carry a balance. For someone like your husband, it's sure to be a real eye opener.

I watched that last night.  Yay! I'm a deadbeat!

Metalcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6463 on: July 13, 2021, 06:37:57 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6464 on: July 13, 2021, 08:12:41 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral. 
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 08:17:17 AM by Sugaree »

Metalcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6465 on: July 13, 2021, 08:50:33 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral.

Yeah, I can understand those nuances, I'm in a single income household where the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled in their 30s.

I still don't get how you manage without losing your shit.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6466 on: July 13, 2021, 08:51:45 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral.

Yeah, I can understand those nuances, I'm in a single income household where the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled in their 30s.

I still don't get how you manage without losing your shit.

Who says I haven't lost my shit?

Metalcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6467 on: July 13, 2021, 08:54:17 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral.

Yeah, I can understand those nuances, I'm in a single income household where the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled in their 30s.

I still don't get how you manage without losing your shit.

Who says I haven't lost my shit?

Good point.

Suffice to say, you have my sympathy. FTR, I'm the disabled one in my marriage, and can't fathom putting that kind of added pressure on my spouse.

Sugaree

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6468 on: July 13, 2021, 09:00:12 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral.

Yeah, I can understand those nuances, I'm in a single income household where the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled in their 30s.

I still don't get how you manage without losing your shit.

Who says I haven't lost my shit?

Good point.

Suffice to say, you have my sympathy. FTR, I'm the disabled one in my marriage, and can't fathom putting that kind of added pressure on my spouse.

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 09:02:43 AM by Sugaree »

DaMa

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6469 on: July 13, 2021, 11:43:56 AM »
I'm not sure where to put this story, but I think you'll appreciate it.

My son was saying he wanted me to look at his wife's investment she bought before they married.  (She's 31, married 4 years.)  He had spoke to the advisor at some point and asked "is it like a Roth?"  The advisor said yes.  Well, now that DS is funding a Roth for both of them, he took another look. 

DS:  It's some kind of annuity.
Me:  An annuity is almost the worst investments for young people. ...
DS:  I was afraid of that.  This guy "volunteers" to assist new teachers.  I asked him for advice last year about that cash I had and he suggested some life insurance thing.
Me:  The only investment worse than an annuity is life insurance.

DS does get it, but he is not a numbers person.  He sort of avoids learning things until he has to.  They have maxed both their 401ks and started Roths this year.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6470 on: July 13, 2021, 11:52:10 AM »
I'd bet the guy who is "volunteering" gets a fat commission on this stuff. A lot of financial advisors really will take a look at your situation for free - of course you have to be vigilant to not buy what they're selling for it to actually be free at the end of the day.

DaMa

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6471 on: July 13, 2021, 12:05:03 PM »
Absolutely.  And he's targeting new teachers fresh out of college. 

PDXTabs

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6472 on: July 13, 2021, 12:09:35 PM »
DS does get it, but he is not a numbers person.  He sort of avoids learning things until he has to.  They have maxed both their 401ks and started Roths this year.

Well they'll win either way then.

Metalcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6473 on: July 13, 2021, 12:11:59 PM »
That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That's horrible. I hope your spouse finds a way to pull his head out of his ass and stop vilifying you for wanting to secure your collective future, especially since you're so dependent on one income, which puts you at such high risk because god forbid anything happens to your capacity to earn.

Suffice to say, I don't know if the sympathy of an internet stranger helps you at all, but you have PLENTY of sympathy from me.

Poeirenta

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6474 on: July 13, 2021, 12:17:29 PM »
Saw the in-laws this weekend and got to talking about retirement, investments, and Roth conversions. FIL is adamant that he can't do Roth conversions b/c he doesn't have earned income and his financial advisor told him he couldn't. I made one effort to explain the difference between a contribution and a conversion, using the example of many here who are retired and using their conversions to act as income for ACA purposes. It was clear he didn't believe me so I left it at, well, I can send you a link if you like, which MIL said yes, please do. It may be moot b/c they may not want to wait 5 years to access converted dollars at their ages ( late 70s/early 80s).

He has a bit of a history not believing me about things that I'm well-versed in, and I always wonder why. Is it that I'm younger,  female, or something else? *shrug* Oh well, whatever.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6475 on: July 13, 2021, 12:31:28 PM »
Saw the in-laws this weekend and got to talking about retirement, investments, and Roth conversions. FIL is adamant that he can't do Roth conversions b/c he doesn't have earned income and his financial advisor told him he couldn't. I made one effort to explain the difference between a contribution and a conversion, using the example of many here who are retired and using their conversions to act as income for ACA purposes. It was clear he didn't believe me so I left it at, well, I can send you a link if you like, which MIL said yes, please do. It may be moot b/c they may not want to wait 5 years to access converted dollars at their ages ( late 70s/early 80s).

He has a bit of a history not believing me about things that I'm well-versed in, and I always wonder why. Is it that I'm younger,  female, or something else? *shrug* Oh well, whatever.

At that age why do a conversion at all? There is no penalty for just taking distributions.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6476 on: July 13, 2021, 01:09:24 PM »
Saw the in-laws this weekend and got to talking about retirement, investments, and Roth conversions. FIL is adamant that he can't do Roth conversions b/c he doesn't have earned income and his financial advisor told him he couldn't. I made one effort to explain the difference between a contribution and a conversion, using the example of many here who are retired and using their conversions to act as income for ACA purposes. It was clear he didn't believe me so I left it at, well, I can send you a link if you like, which MIL said yes, please do. It may be moot b/c they may not want to wait 5 years to access converted dollars at their ages ( late 70s/early 80s).

He has a bit of a history not believing me about things that I'm well-versed in, and I always wonder why. Is it that I'm younger,  female, or something else? *shrug* Oh well, whatever.

At that age why do a conversion at all? There is no penalty for just taking distributions.
Still can optimize to minimize taxes over remaining lifetime.  Conversions even at older ages can help make those RMDs take a smaller bite out of you down the road.

Dusty - just want to make sure - your inlaws have never had a Roth IRA? Because if they even threw $100 each into Roth IRAs way back when and never did anything else, then there's no need for a 5 year wait on converted amounts at their age. Not that it matters if FIL doesn't come around on the whole conversion <> contribution thing.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6477 on: July 13, 2021, 01:14:04 PM »
Thought of another one beyond RMD concerns - say that you want to show a higher income for some reason, maybe to take full advantage of non-refundable tax credits such as for installing solar panels. But you also want to keep the money invested. Conversion achieves both things, and you won't pay taxes when someday withdrawing from the Roth IRA to boot.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2021, 01:16:18 PM by dandarc »

Poeirenta

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6478 on: July 13, 2021, 02:46:28 PM »
@dandarc, yes they do have Roths. We were talking about their RMDs in their traditional accounts and how they are getting bigger as they get older...I think that's how we got on the conversion topic. Good to know that they don't have to let the conversions 'season' though, that's never been on my radar.

I did send an explainer link to MIL...we'll see if FIL acknowledges. Maybe he doesn't like to be wrong cuz he's a retired engineer? I say this in jest knowing the number of engineers on this forum!

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6479 on: July 13, 2021, 04:22:02 PM »
@dandarc, yes they do have Roths. We were talking about their RMDs in their traditional accounts and how they are getting bigger as they get older...I think that's how we got on the conversion topic. Good to know that they don't have to let the conversions 'season' though, that's never been on my radar.

I did send an explainer link to MIL...we'll see if FIL acknowledges. Maybe he doesn't like to be wrong cuz he's a retired engineer? I say this in jest knowing the number of engineers on this forum!
The "seasoning of conversions" thing is for us folks unfortunate enough to be unable to do qualified withdrawals. For qualified withdrawals, in addition to being 59.5 or older, you need to have made your very first deposit to any Roth IRA account at least 5 years ago. Most people I'd think probably check this one off without even realizing it in plenty of time before meeting the age requirement, but not 100% a given.

And yeah, as an engineer (arguably), we're wrong all the time. Impressive amount of effort goes into engineering procedures to ensure we catch the errors and correct them before big problems result.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6480 on: August 02, 2021, 11:01:53 AM »
We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6481 on: August 03, 2021, 11:00:42 AM »
We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

Why would saving money be against their religion?  The Bible is full of stories that admire people who use their resources wisely.  The story of the talents comes to mind, also the description of a good wife.  Yes they are more from the Old  Testament,  but still . . .

Certainly I never heard anything against saving and being financially responsible at Sunday School or church.  From what I have heard, Presbyterians/Calvinists were even more into financial responsibility than we Anglicans. 

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6482 on: August 03, 2021, 11:08:01 AM »
We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

Why would saving money be against their religion?  The Bible is full of stories that admire people who use their resources wisely.  The story of the talents comes to mind, also the description of a good wife.  Yes they are more from the Old  Testament,  but still . . .

Certainly I never heard anything against saving and being financially responsible at Sunday School or church.  From what I have heard, Presbyterians/Calvinists were even more into financial responsibility than we Anglicans.

I read that as sarcasm. As if Spending Money is their religion, so of course they can't save, that would be anathema.

ixtap

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6483 on: August 03, 2021, 11:36:05 AM »
We've been wondering why Bro and SIL are struggling: they paid off the mortgage and had a child graduate from a private university that they were cash flowing.

Their eldest daughter thinks it has all gone on stuff, much of which doesn't get unboxed, much less used. After all, saving money would go against their religious dogma.

Why would saving money be against their religion?  The Bible is full of stories that admire people who use their resources wisely.  The story of the talents comes to mind, also the description of a good wife.  Yes they are more from the Old  Testament,  but still . . .

Certainly I never heard anything against saving and being financially responsible at Sunday School or church.  From what I have heard, Presbyterians/Calvinists were even more into financial responsibility than we Anglicans.

I read that as sarcasm. As if Spending Money is their religion, so of course they can't save, that would be anathema.

Not sarcasm, just selective use of the scripture in a way that is actually pretty common among evangelicals. Lily of the fields meets the camel attempting to traverse the eye of the needle. See also, Matthew 6:34. This is one reason that the televangelists can get others to send them money -  you shouldn't have money, so send it to us, like the widow giving her last mite at the temple (the other biggie being if you send money to us, it will come back to you multiplied, because God works in mysterious ways. Please ignore everything Jesus said about earthly riches, what he meant to say was that money is God's way of showing his favor).

Nothing in there about hoarding useless crap, just hoarding of riches, you see...

2Cent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6484 on: August 04, 2021, 03:30:17 AM »
.......
Not sarcasm, just selective use of the scripture in a way that is actually pretty common among evangelicals. Lily of the fields meets the camel attempting to traverse the eye of the needle. See also, Matthew 6:34. This is one reason that the televangelists can get others to send them money -  you shouldn't have money, so send it to us, like the widow giving her last mite at the temple (the other biggie being if you send money to us, it will come back to you multiplied, because God works in mysterious ways. Please ignore everything Jesus said about earthly riches, what he meant to say was that money is God's way of showing his favor).

Nothing in there about hoarding useless crap, just hoarding of riches, you see...
Ah. The story of the rich man who enlarged his storehouses and stockpiled grain so he could have enough for the rest of his life only to die just when the work was complete. This is my nightmare. I'm saving and saving and then die just when I'm about to be FI. Of course the point in the story was that the rich man ignored the beggar at his doorstep, but still.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6485 on: August 04, 2021, 05:44:23 AM »
.......
Not sarcasm, just selective use of the scripture in a way that is actually pretty common among evangelicals. Lily of the fields meets the camel attempting to traverse the eye of the needle. See also, Matthew 6:34. This is one reason that the televangelists can get others to send them money -  you shouldn't have money, so send it to us, like the widow giving her last mite at the temple (the other biggie being if you send money to us, it will come back to you multiplied, because God works in mysterious ways. Please ignore everything Jesus said about earthly riches, what he meant to say was that money is God's way of showing his favor).

Nothing in there about hoarding useless crap, just hoarding of riches, you see...
Ah. The story of the rich man who enlarged his storehouses and stockpiled grain so he could have enough for the rest of his life only to die just when the work was complete. This is my nightmare. I'm saving and saving and then die just when I'm about to be FI. Of course the point in the story was that the rich man ignored the beggar at his doorstep, but still.

And ignores that Egypt kept grain stores so people wouldn't starve when the harvest was bad.  Individuals did the same as much as they could.

If we look at it impartially, Jesus was a wandering preacher living on the charity of others.  If no-one had any resources saved then no-one would have the spare resources to feed him.

rebel_quietude

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6486 on: August 06, 2021, 01:59:43 PM »

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That doesn't sound like a partner, that sounds like a man-child. This conversation seems a lot like the ones that occurred at the beginning of the end of my sister's marriage.

I wish you the best of luck, but I also hope you give yourself permission not to drown (emotionally or financially) taking care of another adult. I obviously don't know your exact circumstances, but in my sister's case, it soon became clear she could take care of herself and her kids or her spouse . . .but not all three. As @Malcat already inferred - partners seek to lighten each other's burdens, not exacerbate them.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6487 on: August 10, 2021, 04:46:49 AM »

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That doesn't sound like a partner, that sounds like a man-child. This conversation seems a lot like the ones that occurred at the beginning of the end of my sister's marriage.

I wish you the best of luck, but I also hope you give yourself permission not to drown (emotionally or financially) taking care of another adult. I obviously don't know your exact circumstances, but in my sister's case, it soon became clear she could take care of herself and her kids or her spouse . . .but not all three. As @Malcat already inferred - partners seek to lighten each other's burdens, not exacerbate them.

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6488 on: August 10, 2021, 09:37:35 AM »

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

That doesn't sound like a partner, that sounds like a man-child. This conversation seems a lot like the ones that occurred at the beginning of the end of my sister's marriage.

I wish you the best of luck, but I also hope you give yourself permission not to drown (emotionally or financially) taking care of another adult. I obviously don't know your exact circumstances, but in my sister's case, it soon became clear she could take care of herself and her kids or her spouse . . .but not all three. As @Malcat already inferred - partners seek to lighten each other's burdens, not exacerbate them.

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

You may... or may not. Do get a free consultation with a layer in your state: even if the partner is not currently working, child support calculations can use what the partner COULD be making if employed. You mention disability: is he getting some government support? If so that money is income and will be used on the child support calculations. If he is not "officially" disabled, lawyers and court might just use the $$ he used to make. Because he is currently unemployed you might have to pay alimony for 1-2 years.

PS: I am not suggesting you go and file for divorce or anything; just that you know the facts for your specific case.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6489 on: August 11, 2021, 05:55:54 PM »

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

Agree with consulting a lawyer, and just . . . good luck. That doesn't sound like a fun situation, and I hope you're able to navigate through it in a way that's good for you and your kid.

I will say if you're sure one way or another, don't procrastinate. In my state, alimony issues don't get any better with time.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6490 on: August 11, 2021, 08:15:23 PM »

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

This all sounds very familiar. A few months ago I actually went as far as consulting a lawyer and he said the best thing that can happen is my husband gets a job. I have a lot of complicating factors that make the decision really hard, as I'm sure you do too.

  I've gotten a lot of good advice and support from members of the forum, including differing perspectives. Not sure if you have a journal but they are great if you need advice or just need to vent, plus they aren't searchable unless you are logged into the forum. You can check out mine but it's a bit rambly so I understand if you don't want to read the whole thing.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6491 on: August 11, 2021, 11:59:03 PM »
I will say if you're sure one way or another, don't procrastinate. In my state, alimony issues don't get any better with time.

Also, splitting your gains. The gains are just getting bigger if you are hanging out around here.

NYExpat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6492 on: August 16, 2021, 08:24:58 PM »
I would highly recommend the book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson. It's saving my wife's sanity after years of crap and childish behavior from her dad. Part of it is reminding people that you can't help people who don't want to be helped, and it's OK to nope out for your own well-being.

Now for the juicy stuff.  My F-I-L has a sister who he hasn't talked to much in years. She moved back to their home town. In casual conversation she mentions she's getting evicted. Later I get the backstory. It sounds like both her and her husband were getting unemployment for a while, but with the COVID eviction ban they stopped paying rent for a year and now owe ~10K in back rent. The water heater died and the landlord won't replace it. They decide to join Planet Fitness so they have a place to take warm showers.  They showed up to chat with my FIL eating McDonalds.

I'm so thankful that my wife didn't end up an emotional & financial train wreck of a human being

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6493 on: August 17, 2021, 05:44:47 AM »

There's way more to it than what I've talked about here.  My biggest fear is that I'm going to end up having to pay him an exorbitant amount of child support even if we end up with 50/50 custody because I make good money and he doesn't work.  There are some mental health issues going on, but nothing that's ever been directed at the kid so nothing that would really preclude him from getting less than 50% custody.

This all sounds very familiar. A few months ago I actually went as far as consulting a lawyer and he said the best thing that can happen is my husband gets a job. I have a lot of complicating factors that make the decision really hard, as I'm sure you do too.

  I've gotten a lot of good advice and support from members of the forum, including differing perspectives. Not sure if you have a journal but they are great if you need advice or just need to vent, plus they aren't searchable unless you are logged into the forum. You can check out mine but it's a bit rambly so I understand if you don't want to read the whole thing.

He started seeing a therapist last week.  I'm going to give that some time before I make any hard decisions.  He also needs to get a job, like yesterday.  I make decent money for where we live, but an extra $100/week would make a HUGE difference in meeting goals for the next year or so.

2Cent

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6494 on: August 29, 2021, 10:49:08 AM »
@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6495 on: August 29, 2021, 11:32:46 AM »
Today's relative who doesn't get it is my husband.  He actually tried to convince me that credit card debt was normal and that we're killing ourselves by not carrying a balance.  So, #1 I don't GAF if it's normal or not, have you seen the interest rates on those cards dearest husband?  Number 2, they are my cards and nothing gets charged unless the money to pay for it is already available.  And number 3, "we" aren't killing ourselves because I am the only one working.  If you want to buy more things then Get. A. Job.

You live with someone who won't get a job, wants to spend more money, and thinks that carrying a credit card balance is the way to do it?

Fucking hell...how do you manage that???

It's a little more nuanced than he won't get a job.  There are some health issues going on, but this is definitely not what I signed up for.  There are sacrifices that have to be made when you're in a single-income family.  We've cut nearly everything that can be cut (don't get me started on his cigarettes), we need to increase income.  A consistent $100/week would make all the difference in the world. 

He thinks we should save less, which is easy to say when you're not the one who's going to be working until noon on the day of their funeral.

Yeah, I can understand those nuances, I'm in a single income household where the major breadwinner suddenly became disabled in their 30s.

I still don't get how you manage without losing your shit.

Who says I haven't lost my shit?

Good point.

Suffice to say, you have my sympathy. FTR, I'm the disabled one in my marriage, and can't fathom putting that kind of added pressure on my spouse.

That's what drives me crazy.  I tried to explain to him just a little while ago that we're at least $100k behind where we're "supposed to be" based on the salary x 3 at age 40 metric....and he called me Darth Vader...  Needless to say, I'm not happy with him this morning.

I know it's not exactly fair.  I was always a saver, but not necessarily a super saver.  Then we had a kid and suddenly there was this little human that relied on us for everything and the responsibility of that kicked my ass.

Ah, @2Cent , I'm assuming you've been partnered with someone who meets the above description? Wanting them to deal with their issues is not a gender thing. It's a "partner is being irrational and actively making things more difficult" thing. Based on the mention of a therapist, I suspect that there are long-untreated mental health issues. Those can be hell on a marriage.

@Sugaree , I wish you all the best. You might also consider therapy for yourself, if you can swing it financially and time-wise.

rebel_quietude

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6496 on: August 30, 2021, 07:17:37 PM »
@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out.

@2Cent

Yes, I would "suggest" that to a woman, and have.

Partnership is partnership, not exploitation. I don't hold with women being excluded from financial decisions, excluded from work, or getting away with treating partners poorly.

Different strokes for different folks. A couple having their own way of dividing responsibility for finances, kids, and external employment, does not carry the same implications as a partner who does not perceive themselves as equally liable for the success of  the partnership.

 I do believe "work" includes childcare, if that's how the couple in question chooses to divide labor. Which means I'm also a fan of male homemakers, if that's how a couple chooses to divide labor. Key words being "couple chooses," and "divide."

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6497 on: August 30, 2021, 08:02:56 PM »
@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

There's a HUGE difference between a partner who won't work and a partner who doesn't work because both members of the relationship have decided that that's what's best for their family unit.

HUUUUUUGE difference.

This isn't a gender thing. Many threads have come up over the years where it was the woman who was refusing to get a job, and the response here has actually been even more aggressive against those women. So no, there is no free pass in this community for any spouse who chooses not to work without the support of their spouse.

We only have a very tiny part of the story, but based on what we've been told, I'm not going to jump to conclusions that the person sharing their pain and frustration is just uncaring and unreasonable.

Even if mental health issues are at play, it's very possible for someone who can't work to still pull their weight as a partner, even if that just means focusing on their own mental health care and being mindful of the impact it has on the other person.

And the person sharing here doesn't sound like someone who feels like their needs are being very considered by their partner.

For the record, I *am* the non working partner in my marriage, and I take the burden of my illness on my partner very, very seriously. It my obligation to take care of myself as best I can, to get whatever mental health help I need, and to care deeply about how my illness affects my spouse.

A lot of marriages work optimally with only one partner working, for various reasons, but this person's marriage obviously isn't one of them.

We don't know why exactly, but again, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that their pain and struggle isn't legitimate. Not unless they give me specific information to believe that.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6498 on: September 07, 2021, 10:26:49 AM »
@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

There's a HUGE difference between a partner who won't work and a partner who doesn't work because both members of the relationship have decided that that's what's best for their family unit.

HUUUUUUGE difference.

This isn't a gender thing. Many threads have come up over the years where it was the woman who was refusing to get a job, and the response here has actually been even more aggressive against those women. So no, there is no free pass in this community for any spouse who chooses not to work without the support of their spouse.

We only have a very tiny part of the story, but based on what we've been told, I'm not going to jump to conclusions that the person sharing their pain and frustration is just uncaring and unreasonable.

Even if mental health issues are at play, it's very possible for someone who can't work to still pull their weight as a partner, even if that just means focusing on their own mental health care and being mindful of the impact it has on the other person.

And the person sharing here doesn't sound like someone who feels like their needs are being very considered by their partner.

For the record, I *am* the non working partner in my marriage, and I take the burden of my illness on my partner very, very seriously. It my obligation to take care of myself as best I can, to get whatever mental health help I need, and to care deeply about how my illness affects my spouse.

A lot of marriages work optimally with only one partner working, for various reasons, but this person's marriage obviously isn't one of them.

We don't know why exactly, but again, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that their pain and struggle isn't legitimate. Not unless they give me specific information to believe that.

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy. 

Metalcat

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6499 on: September 07, 2021, 04:31:18 PM »
@Sugaree Somehow it's funny that people find it perfectly ok to tell a husband to get a job and otherwise he gets no say in finances, but if it was a wife with children and health issues people would never dare to suggest she should either get a job, be quiet or get out. I really hate when men are considered losers or useless if they don't have a job. Not for nothing that men get mental problems when they lose their job and the suicide rate is quite high. Sorry about this rant. Not directed at you specifically.

Obviously I really don't know you and your situation but before taking big decisions please put all your energy in fixing things and try to see things from different perspectives. Because a divorce is a medicine with some serious side effects. Especially for your kids, but even for your finances. Being a single parent is very tough and you can't assume your husband will settle things in a way that suits you. Instead of a reluctant ally you will have a possible enemy who could get a lot of money out of you and make your life very hard or simply refuse to contribute anything and leave you to carry the full load forever.

There's a HUGE difference between a partner who won't work and a partner who doesn't work because both members of the relationship have decided that that's what's best for their family unit.

HUUUUUUGE difference.

This isn't a gender thing. Many threads have come up over the years where it was the woman who was refusing to get a job, and the response here has actually been even more aggressive against those women. So no, there is no free pass in this community for any spouse who chooses not to work without the support of their spouse.

We only have a very tiny part of the story, but based on what we've been told, I'm not going to jump to conclusions that the person sharing their pain and frustration is just uncaring and unreasonable.

Even if mental health issues are at play, it's very possible for someone who can't work to still pull their weight as a partner, even if that just means focusing on their own mental health care and being mindful of the impact it has on the other person.

And the person sharing here doesn't sound like someone who feels like their needs are being very considered by their partner.

For the record, I *am* the non working partner in my marriage, and I take the burden of my illness on my partner very, very seriously. It my obligation to take care of myself as best I can, to get whatever mental health help I need, and to care deeply about how my illness affects my spouse.

A lot of marriages work optimally with only one partner working, for various reasons, but this person's marriage obviously isn't one of them.

We don't know why exactly, but again, I'm not going to jump to the conclusion that their pain and struggle isn't legitimate. Not unless they give me specific information to believe that.

This is more or less what's going on.  His being a SAHP was never something that was intentionally on the table.  He was in nursing school, but "flunked out" (I recently found out that he either quit or intentionally tanked the last semester).  The kid was in daycare/afterschool care/summer care until 2nd grade.  To be honest, he had been fantastic at keeping the house clean and yard in order when he was in school.  But that hasn't happened this time.  Which may very well be a symptom of his mental health (he says the house looks like he feels inside).  I'm just sick of being (metaphorically) kicked around because he's not happy.

You have my sympathy and support.