Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3389640 times)

Splashncash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6350 on: April 13, 2021, 12:49:18 PM »
My brother has been living in a ~2400 square foot house for ~4 years.  About a year and half ago he got married.  They just announced they're moving into a 3800 square foot house.  He's an engineer, and she will be when she graduates, so they can afford it, but I just don't understand.  When he got the 2400 sqft house, he had two or three good friends move in with him, so it didn't seem so bad.  Our dad retired early, so it's not like the idea is alien to him. 

I just want to ask WHHHHHHHHYYYYY?  Everything was finalized before I learned about it, so there's not much point in having a conversation about it.  I wish them the best.  It's just my brain hurts when I think about it.

My house is about 1,200-1,300 square feet, can't recall exactly. But where I am it was cheaper to buy a home than continue to rent an apartment in any decent building. My rent for my last apartment was like $400 more a month than my house in an apartment building I would rate as "nice" but hardly luxury. Even mid-tier apartments here would be upwards of $1,200-$1,400 a month.

Maybe your brother and his wife are planning on having a few kids and want to buy now when the rates are good? It could be a good long term decision even if it doesn't make sense right now. Is housing in demand there? Or it is a hot market?

Well, sure, but we are mustachians. If the brother lives in a 2400 square ft. house right now, that's already a large family home. 3800 square ft is just insanely big, unless they're planning to have 10 kids that house is just unmustachian.

On the one hand, yes, there is no justification for it. On the other hand, my grandmother lives alone in a house that is larger than that and... it doesn't make sense, but she can afford it and for now she is able to take care of herself there. I have an aunt who also lives alone in an enormous house, but she has 7 grown children plus their spouses and kids and maybe she wants to have room for lots of visitors? I dunno. Some people choose to spend their money in ways that seem odd to me.

Being from urban Europe, I don't think I've ever even been in a house that big. There are 10 homes 3800 square ft or bigger for sale in my city and there are several million Ä homes. They look like castles to me.

Sure, if people can afford it and can look after themselves and the property, it's their choice and good luck to them. It just feels like a colossal waste of space and resources to build, maintain, heat etc a house like that.

This.  Just because they can afford it does not mean they should.  There are costs to society and the planet if not themselves of one or two people maintaining a house that big.

Hula Hoop

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6351 on: April 13, 2021, 01:07:01 PM »
I just can't imagine using all that space.  Let alone heating it and cooling it and cleaning it.  What is the point.  We live in a relatively large apartment (150 square meters - 4 people) and it feels perfect to me.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6352 on: April 13, 2021, 01:25:46 PM »
My in-laws still live in the 3000-sf home where they raised seven kids. They do intend to downsize in a few years, but a major obstacle is that it's the only house big enough for all 49 kids, spouses, grandkids, and great-grandkids to gather for Christmas and other holidays--which we do, multiple times a year, and which is extremely precious to my MIL especially.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6353 on: April 13, 2021, 02:03:18 PM »
Hula hoop yes. The guy I see, has multiple houses; rentals and also 2 separate house residences. Hes expressed more than wanting to custom build a house, and yes the bigger the better. I'm going to refrain from commenting on his desire, but I don't really understand it, other than maybe it is an aspirational thing. And he also points out that building a bigger house is not that much more expensive than custom building a smaller house. Anyways I'm just going to say anything any more on the subject, bc it's not my money and it makes me feel like I'm pissing in his cheerios to point out the wastefulness of it. What is interesting is he is very mustachian pretty much in all other aspects of life.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 02:42:20 PM by partgypsy »

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6354 on: April 13, 2021, 02:15:33 PM »
A 2400 sq ft house is a really good size for a regular family.  Plenty of room to spread out when you need to (if properly designed) but not excessively large.

Our last two homes have been 3500 sq feet, but we didn't buy them because they were that much bigger.   We bought them for a bunch of other things that we needed or wanted in a house and the extra sq footage came with it.   We actually put most of it to use but then we're not an average family, we have a wood shop, pottery studio, glass studio, metal studio and enamel studio and sewing room and a whole lot of books in our library, most of which get used.   Plus we like to entertain and teach classes in our home, so we put most of the space to good use.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6355 on: April 13, 2021, 04:34:48 PM »
I grew up in a 2100 ft^2 house as a kid for two adults and two kids. Our dining room was almost never used. We had a family room and a living room and only one of the two was ever in service. One bedroom usually wasnít used until I reached my teenage years and stopped sharing a room with my sister.

That said, the five of us are in a 1800 ft^2, three-level townhouse now and I want more space! Mostly because we are all home all the time but also because being split up over so many levels means the space isnít well utilized.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6356 on: April 13, 2021, 11:25:58 PM »
Hula hoop yes. The guy I see, has multiple houses; rentals and also 2 separate house residences. Hes expressed more than wanting to custom build a house, and yes the bigger the better. I'm going to refrain from commenting on his desire, but I don't really understand it, other than maybe it is an aspirational thing. And he also points out that building a bigger house is not that much more expensive than custom building a smaller house. Anyways I'm just going to say anything any more on the subject, bc it's not my money and it makes me feel like I'm pissing in his cheerios to point out the wastefulness of it. What is interesting is he is very mustachian pretty much in all other aspects of life.

I can understand the wish to custombuild even though I donít understand the bigger the better. I would like to have one of the plus energy houses that produces more energy than it uses.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6357 on: April 14, 2021, 06:18:25 AM »
Hula hoop yes. The guy I see, has multiple houses; rentals and also 2 separate house residences. Hes expressed more than wanting to custom build a house, and yes the bigger the better. I'm going to refrain from commenting on his desire, but I don't really understand it, other than maybe it is an aspirational thing. And he also points out that building a bigger house is not that much more expensive than custom building a smaller house. Anyways I'm just going to say anything any more on the subject, bc it's not my money and it makes me feel like I'm pissing in his cheerios to point out the wastefulness of it. What is interesting is he is very mustachian pretty much in all other aspects of life.

I can understand the wish to custombuild even though I donít understand the bigger the better. I would like to have one of the plus energy houses that produces more energy than it uses.

there was this guy who had a column that was all about houses esp stuff about making more energy efficient etc. air flow, ambient heated floors, etc. Anyways a book compiled of his columns (which I can't find now) had articles about geothermal houses which if I ever custom built a house in an area that made sense, want to try. If not, as least mostly passive solar.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6358 on: April 14, 2021, 03:35:56 PM »
there was this guy who had a column that was all about houses esp stuff about making more energy efficient etc. air flow, ambient heated floors, etc. Anyways a book compiled of his columns (which I can't find now) had articles about geothermal houses which if I ever custom built a house in an area that made sense, want to try. If not, as least mostly passive solar.

There are some excellent resources on high-efficiency houses. Green Building Advisor (GBA) is one of my favourites, although very USA/Canada oriented:
https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/blogs

In Europe, the Passivhaus standard has been quite successful:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house

For general building science, Joe Lstiburek has been writing great stuff for years:
https://www.buildingscience.com/document-search?term=&field_doc_topic_tid=All&type%5B%5D=8

If I had to recommend one book:
https://www.amazon.com/Musings-Energy-Nerd-Toward-Energy-Efficient/dp/1631862561
Martin Holladay was the main editor at Greenbuilding advisor for many years.





partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6359 on: April 15, 2021, 07:03:38 AM »
Thanks for the resources! I think my info is probably 20 years out of date. Though I do also like the book the "not so big house" (which are not particularly tiny) because of the good ideas for making a house very functional and user friendly even in smaller footprints.

Plina

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UpNAtom

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6361 on: April 15, 2021, 01:59:27 PM »
Before I can reply my mother who owes $10k in credit card debt says I need to enjoy my money and my life a little more.

I have a family member who used to call me cheap and tell me I need to treat myself.  I finally got fed up and said, "you know what's a treat?  I am debt free and have a year's worth of expenses in the bank.  That means no company, boss, bill collector, or layoff list has any power over me."  We never had a treat yourself conversation again.

Not a family member: an ex (you'll see why quickly) had said she was more used to someone who spent more money on her. The kicker was, weeks earlier she was complaining that her ex had left her with ~8k in credit card debt (aka they had a joint card, and that was how 'he' was spending money on her).
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 02:08:06 PM by UpNAtom »

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6362 on: April 15, 2021, 02:33:23 PM »
Before I can reply my mother who owes $10k in credit card debt says I need to enjoy my money and my life a little more.

I have a family member who used to call me cheap and tell me I need to treat myself.  I finally got fed up and said, "you know what's a treat?  I am debt free and have a year's worth of expenses in the bank.  That means no company, boss, bill collector, or layoff list has any power over me."  We never had a treat yourself conversation again.

Not a family member: an ex (you'll see why quickly) had said she was more used to someone who spent more money on her. The kicker was, weeks earlier she was complaining that her ex had left her with ~8k in credit card debt (aka they had a joint card, and that was how 'he' was spending money on her).

Wow.   Some people simply can't connect the dots.

Uturn

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6363 on: April 16, 2021, 06:12:02 AM »
Not a family member: an ex (you'll see why quickly) had said she was more used to someone who spent more money on her. The kicker was, weeks earlier she was complaining that her ex had left her with ~8k in credit card debt (aka they had a joint card, and that was how 'he' was spending money on her).

I had an ex break up with me over money after dating for about 6 months.  She figured out that we both spent about the same annually but I made a little over twice what she did.  She said that me hoarding money like that was just greedy and she thought she was dating someone with a better sense of the purpose of money.  Wow, and here I thought my $42k/yr spend rate created quite the cushy life.

Adventine

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6364 on: April 16, 2021, 06:39:19 AM »
All these money break up stories remind me of an ex.

One of my ex-boyfriends came from a wealthy family. As in, living-in-the-richest-area-in-the-country-since-birth wealthy.

His mother hated me because she thought I was just a golddigger, en though at the time, I was fully self-supporting, was saving around 50% of my salary, and always insisted on splitting the bill evenly with her son whenever we would go out.

I broke up with the guy because he knew all this about me and yet didn't defend me from his mom, even when she tried to embarrass me in front of him and their extended family. As in, at my ex's birthday lunch with family, the mom told my ex to tell me to sit on a certain chair, which turned out to be broken (!) and I fell through the chair (!!) and both the mom and my ex ignored me even though they were only seated a few feet away from me (!!!). A couple of decent minded family members helped me up and found me a new chair.

Spineless POS.

The happy ending was, I broke up with that ex shortly after, in a spectacular he-deserved-to-be-yelled-at-in-public fashion.

The bittersweet coda, a few years later, the ex messages me to say that his mom is dying of cancer and wants to apologize to me for her bad behavior. And I refused. Because not once did my ex ever apologize to me for his own bad behavior, and for his role in allowing his mom to treat me so badly. Knowing how spineless my ex was, he probably only reached out because his mom told him to (and likely because there was a giant inheritance riding on doing exactly as his mom said).

It feels nice to get that off my chest. That ex and his mom were two people who simply. Did. Not. Get. It.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 06:51:45 AM by Adventine »

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6365 on: April 16, 2021, 09:42:43 AM »
I had the opposite situation is the guy I was married to, my mil liked me better than her own son, saying things since the divorce like "I don't understand him; he's never had any sense; we did not raise him that way" and his father while not telling him this, said he was disappointed in him and if he asked for help like moving in with them he's not going to help him.... The one awkwardness is there have been times I've hung out with my former mother in law with my kids say at a neighborhood block party, she will introduce me to other people as her daughter in law. Which forces me to either say nothing and people having the wrong idea, or me correct the statement (in case they couldnt figure out me being there solo and not wearing wedding band). And, the mil is not fond of the new wife. Both her background, how they got together, and the fact that while ex took the majority of his divorce settlement and used it for a down payment for a house, they have a written agreement in case death or divorce she gets 100% of the house.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2021, 10:16:08 AM by partgypsy »

Taran Wanderer

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6366 on: April 16, 2021, 10:28:16 AM »
I had the opposite situation is the guy I was married to, my mil liked me better than her own son, saying things since the divorce like "I don't understand him; he's never had any sense; we did not raise him that way" and his father while not telling him this, said he was disappointed in him and if he asked for help like moving in with them he's not going to help him.... The one awkwardness is there have been times I've hung out with my former mother in law with my kids say at a neighborhood block party, she will introduce me to other people as her daughter in law. Which forces me to either say nothing and people having the wrong idea, or me correct the statement (in case they couldnt figure out me being there solo and not wearing wedding band). And, the mil is not fond of the new wife. Both her background, how they got together, and the fact that while ex took the majority of his divorce settlement and used it for a down payment for a house, they have a written agreement in case death or divorce she gets 100% of the house.

Well thatís awkward.

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6367 on: April 16, 2021, 12:16:31 PM »
My husband has an older sister and an older brother, each of whom has a child. A couple
Of years before starting our own family we offered each of them to open up a 529 for their kids. One said yes and then never followed up with providing their kidís SSN to be named beneficiary. The second shared some stuff about not wanting to reduce possible student aid eligibility in the future and preferred to be given cash to keep under the mattress. Which of course we did not agree to. So neither of them took us up on our offer.

We now have three sprogs of our own so are busy with their 529s.
I did a similar thing with my twin Goddaughters. I didn't want to waste money on plastic crap, so from the time they were babies, I said instead of quickly forgotten Christmas and Birthday gifts, I'd pay for a trip to Europe when they graduated from High School. Despite the fact that their dad is an actual financial planner (now over 50 and severely underemployed), the necessary information to set up accounts for this was never forthcoming, despite multiple asks. Perhaps their father didn't want to have someone else contributing money into accounts on his daughters' behalf, but I know (knew?) them well enough that they easily could have said so or proposed an alternative.

Fast forward many years. Communication is less frequent, but still semi-regular. The girls graduated without any mention of this to me. (OMG, they grow up so fast, lol!) I guess graduation announcements aren't a "thing" any more? Once I realized they were past graduation, I struggled with how much to give them, because I'm a woman of my word. I knew the family was facing some economic difficulties, so I sent a check for $5k* and told the mom to use it as best suited their family's needs.

Eventually, she said she was going to give the girls "some of the money" for their birthday. Subsequently, I got a - wait for it - thank you text from them. I have no idea what they got and damned if I'm going to ask.

At least I have the consolation of knowing that I didn't add a bunch of pink plastic crap to the environmental slag heap.

*I have no idea how much a trip for two to Europe costs, but I do know how hard I worked for $5k, as opposed to investing a smaller amount when they were very young and letting them watch it grow. I wanted the girls to have the thrill of watching it grow and planning a trip together with "their" money. Ah, well. Water under the bridge.

And one more thing. I used to visit frequently, even though they live several hundred miles away, because I was single and carefree and I love them to pieces. Fast forward to me finally getting married and then inheriting a MIL with ALZ. I had little freedom to visit during those caregiving years and thus the bonds of our friendship had loosened, but there was no way I was going to forget my promise to them.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6368 on: April 16, 2021, 01:58:50 PM »
My husband has an older sister and an older brother, each of whom has a child. A couple
Of years before starting our own family we offered each of them to open up a 529 for their kids. One said yes and then never followed up with providing their kidís SSN to be named beneficiary. The second shared some stuff about not wanting to reduce possible student aid eligibility in the future and preferred to be given cash to keep under the mattress. Which of course we did not agree to. So neither of them took us up on our offer.

We now have three sprogs of our own so are busy with their 529s.
I did a similar thing with my twin Goddaughters. I didn't want to waste money on plastic crap, so from the time they were babies, I said instead of quickly forgotten Christmas and Birthday gifts, I'd pay for a trip to Europe when they graduated from High School. Despite the fact that their dad is an actual financial planner (now over 50 and severely underemployed), the necessary information to set up accounts for this was never forthcoming, despite multiple asks. Perhaps their father didn't want to have someone else contributing money into accounts on his daughters' behalf, but I know (knew?) them well enough that they easily could have said so or proposed an alternative.

Fast forward many years. Communication is less frequent, but still semi-regular. The girls graduated without any mention of this to me. (OMG, they grow up so fast, lol!) I guess graduation announcements aren't a "thing" any more? Once I realized they were past graduation, I struggled with how much to give them, because I'm a woman of my word. I knew the family was facing some economic difficulties, so I sent a check for $5k* and told the mom to use it as best suited their family's needs.

Eventually, she said she was going to give the girls "some of the money" for their birthday. Subsequently, I got a - wait for it - thank you text from them. I have no idea what they got and damned if I'm going to ask.

At least I have the consolation of knowing that I didn't add a bunch of pink plastic crap to the environmental slag heap.


I have opened an investment account in my name with my niece as a beneficiary and will do the same for future nieces or nephews. That way I can control the money until they are old enough to deal with it themselves if I donít die before that.

For birthdays and Christmas I make a deposit instead of buying some crap. She actually likes books so maybe I will end up buying presents sometimes but I prefer this way. I tell my sister that I have deposited money into the account.

marion10

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6369 on: April 16, 2021, 04:03:48 PM »
We opened 529 accounts for my nephews after my BIL cashed savings bond we had given to them to buy a hunting dog. That did it. We put small amounts in at birthday and Christmas and came to about $1500 for each. They both went to college and we had it sent directly to their school. Only got a thank you from one of them.

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6370 on: April 17, 2021, 02:51:39 AM »
I am so surprised that you guys didn't even get thank you's from your nieces/nephews. I have never received anything more expensive than a book for my birthday from my aunts and uncles. And since my birthday is in summer, half of the time we didn't host a party so we got nothing at all. Even now I'm 30 and have some money of my own, I wouldn't even know what to say if a family member gave me $1500 or $5000. My own mother gave me Ä2000 when I bought my own house and I have probably thanked her a million times for that. I know lots of people get 6 figures from their parents but I know how hard my mum saved to give me that.

@Dicey not sure what happened between your goddaughters and their parents but could it be that the parents never told them you gave them so much? Or are they such spoiled brats? I can imagine that if they think you didn't keep your promise, they're a bit angry. "All those years aunt Dicey promised to take us to Europe after graduation, and all we got was a $25 giftcard!" It's odd they didn't mention their graduation to you though. I have never heard of an official graduation announcement, maybe that's an American thing? When I graduated I called my closest family to tell them (mother, grandparent, siblings) and with everyone else I would just mention it the next time I met them. I was only allowed to take two people to the ceremony anyway.

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6371 on: April 17, 2021, 06:28:20 AM »
Y'all are much more generous than me. My wife and I have seven nieces and nephews, ranging from newborn to graduating high school this year. Neither the nieces/nephews nor their parents know this yet, but our plan is to give $500 as a graduation present. One of my sisters might react similarly to the way Dicey's friends did (we never got along), but I'm also not doing it for a thank you.

Step37

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6372 on: April 17, 2021, 10:42:21 AM »
Thanks for the resources! I think my info is probably 20 years out of date. Though I do also like the book the "not so big house" (which are not particularly tiny) because of the good ideas for making a house very functional and user friendly even in smaller footprints.

We bought a nearby lot and are planning a to custom build next year. Itís just two of us and we are not planning to go bigger than the 1400sf weíve very been comfortably living in for 20 years (only a layout that will work better). It will have a basement suite and a garage suite and those will more than cover any ongoing living costs. My parents (mostly my dad) will be utterly confused by this. They added on to their ~1800sf bungalow when my sister and I were in high school and still live in their ~6500sf space. Utterly absurd.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6373 on: April 17, 2021, 07:27:37 PM »
I had the opposite situation is the guy I was married to, my mil liked me better than her own son, saying things since the divorce like "I don't understand him; he's never had any sense; we did not raise him that way" and his father while not telling him this, said he was disappointed in him and if he asked for help like moving in with them he's not going to help him.... The one awkwardness is there have been times I've hung out with my former mother in law with my kids say at a neighborhood block party, she will introduce me to other people as her daughter in law. Which forces me to either say nothing and people having the wrong idea, or me correct the statement (in case they couldnt figure out me being there solo and not wearing wedding band). And, the mil is not fond of the new wife. Both her background, how they got together, and the fact that while ex took the majority of his divorce settlement and used it for a down payment for a house, they have a written agreement in case death or divorce she gets 100% of the house.

Well thatís awkward.

I was in the role for much of the relationship of defending him to others. I thought people were too critical of him, including his Dad, and were overlooking his good qualities. Turns out while I was doing that, he was gaining sympathy from others by throwing me under the bus in how he described me. The parents only told me those things to me post break-up when they were really exasperated with him and the situation.     
« Last Edit: April 17, 2021, 07:29:15 PM by partgypsy »

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6374 on: April 17, 2021, 08:17:44 PM »
We opened 529 accounts for my nephews...

As a Canadian, I always read sentences like this and immediately think "Why so many?"


;-)

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6375 on: April 17, 2021, 09:13:50 PM »
Y'all are much more generous than me. My wife and I have seven nieces and nephews, ranging from newborn to graduating high school this year. Neither the nieces/nephews nor their parents know this yet, but our plan is to give $500 as a graduation present. One of my sisters might react similarly to the way Dicey's friends did (we never got along), but I'm also not doing it for a thank you.

You are much more generous than we are. My husband and I wouldn't give $500 to our grandchildren, let alone nieces and nephews.  They get presents like books when they graduated from high school. But our family is generally a low-gift-budget one.

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6376 on: April 17, 2021, 10:00:32 PM »

@Dicey not sure what happened between your goddaughters and their parents but could it be that the parents never told them you gave them so much? Or are they such spoiled brats? I can imagine that if they think you didn't keep your promise, they're a bit angry. "All those years aunt Dicey promised to take us to Europe after graduation, and all we got was a $25 giftcard!" It's odd they didn't mention their graduation to you though. I have never heard of an official graduation announcement, maybe that's an American thing? When I graduated I called my closest family to tell them (mother, grandparent, siblings) and with everyone else I would just mention it the next time I met them. I was only allowed to take two people to the ceremony anyway.
I wasn't taking them to Europe, the money was for them to go together. Yes, graduation announcements are a thing in the US, but maybe Facebook has eaten away at that. They live a few hundred miles away from me, and I was caring for my MIL w/ALZ, so there's no way I could have attended their graduation anyway. Plus, graduation announcements are not the same as invitations to the actual graduation. I guess my only hope is that my gift helped the whole family during tough times.
What I really wanted was for the girls to learn about compound interest, budgeting and the anticipation of planning a big trip. Oh, well. They're good girls and they've worked hard in community college, with plans to transfer to a four year program, so they are clearly making good decisions, which makes me happy.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6377 on: April 17, 2021, 11:47:18 PM »
Y'all are much more generous than me. My wife and I have seven nieces and nephews, ranging from newborn to graduating high school this year. Neither the nieces/nephews nor their parents know this yet, but our plan is to give $500 as a graduation present. One of my sisters might react similarly to the way Dicey's friends did (we never got along), but I'm also not doing it for a thank you.

You are much more generous than we are. My husband and I wouldn't give $500 to our grandchildren, let alone nieces and nephews.  They get presents like books when they graduated from high school. But our family is generally a low-gift-budget one.

At least for me the point is to not give gifts during 18-19 years so if you add that up it will probably be about 3000 USD in the end with market gains.

Gronnie

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6378 on: April 18, 2021, 01:21:06 PM »
I'm confused -- why would you send the money to the parent(s) instead of the now adult directly?

Segare

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6379 on: April 19, 2021, 09:18:35 AM »
Not a family member: an ex (you'll see why quickly) had said she was more used to someone who spent more money on her. The kicker was, weeks earlier she was complaining that her ex had left her with ~8k in credit card debt (aka they had a joint card, and that was how 'he' was spending money on her).

I had an ex break up with me over money after dating for about 6 months.  She figured out that we both spent about the same annually but I made a little over twice what she did.  She said that me hoarding money like that was just greedy and she thought she was dating someone with a better sense of the purpose of money.  Wow, and here I thought my $42k/yr spend rate created quite the cushy life.

Wow, I would think someone with a little bit of intelligence would start to think of the value of your savings going down the road.  I bet you are grateful you didn't end up with her.

charis

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6380 on: April 19, 2021, 11:41:34 AM »
Not a family member: an ex (you'll see why quickly) had said she was more used to someone who spent more money on her. The kicker was, weeks earlier she was complaining that her ex had left her with ~8k in credit card debt (aka they had a joint card, and that was how 'he' was spending money on her).

I had an ex break up with me over money after dating for about 6 months.  She figured out that we both spent about the same annually but I made a little over twice what she did.  She said that me hoarding money like that was just greedy and she thought she was dating someone with a better sense of the purpose of money.  Wow, and here I thought my $42k/yr spend rate created quite the cushy life.

Wow, I would think someone with a little bit of intelligence would start to think of the value of your savings going down the road.  I bet you are grateful you didn't end up with her.

How did she figure it out?  I wonder if people like this are worried that this signifies something bad about the relationship or their financial future?  Granted, 6 months isn't really long enough to suggest a long term relationship, and it sounds like it was for the best to break up.  I wonder when makes sense to reveal your money position and philosophy to a significant other, early on (weed people out) or wait until it gets serious (so you know they probably aren't just after your money)?

Imma

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6381 on: April 19, 2021, 01:38:17 PM »
Not a family member: an ex (you'll see why quickly) had said she was more used to someone who spent more money on her. The kicker was, weeks earlier she was complaining that her ex had left her with ~8k in credit card debt (aka they had a joint card, and that was how 'he' was spending money on her).

I had an ex break up with me over money after dating for about 6 months.  She figured out that we both spent about the same annually but I made a little over twice what she did.  She said that me hoarding money like that was just greedy and she thought she was dating someone with a better sense of the purpose of money.  Wow, and here I thought my $42k/yr spend rate created quite the cushy life.

Wow, I would think someone with a little bit of intelligence would start to think of the value of your savings going down the road.  I bet you are grateful you didn't end up with her.

How did she figure it out?  I wonder if people like this are worried that this signifies something bad about the relationship or their financial future?  Granted, 6 months isn't really long enough to suggest a long term relationship, and it sounds like it was for the best to break up.  I wonder when makes sense to reveal your money position and philosophy to a significant other, early on (weed people out) or wait until it gets serious (so you know they probably aren't just after your money)?

We started to discuss money quite quickly, for practical reasons: what's the budget for going to a restaurant? What's the amount of money we're going to spend on our first joint holiday? Etc etc. I think we were completely open about money about 6 months into the relationship, which is also when we moved in together. I think it's important to talk about money early on, maybe not about specific figures yet, but I feel it's important to tell early on that I'm frugal by choice. I'm not poor, this is how I want to live forever. If that's not your thing, fine, but then you're not the one for me.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6382 on: April 19, 2021, 11:07:20 PM »
We opened 529 accounts for my nephews...

As a Canadian, I always read sentences like this and immediately think "Why so many?"


;-)

That's a LOT of nieces and nephews! ;-)

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6383 on: April 20, 2021, 07:23:41 AM »
I'm confused -- why would you send the money to the parent(s) instead of the now adult directly?
Several reasons. They're a very tight knit family. Doing that would piss the parents off. Next, I believe should send out their own damn graduation announcements, and we know that didn't happen. Third, I know they are struggling financially and this was a way to accept help without losing face. It's not the helping that bothers me, it's the lack of transparency (no idea what the kids got) and the lack of response.

In retrospect, I think our friendship may have just run it's course. These friends have become extremely conserva"T"ive and the divisions may have become too deep to overcome. However, I made a promise to myself and to the girls that I felt important to keep. I did and it's done. I love them and wish them well, but life moves on and I get that.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6384 on: April 20, 2021, 07:49:21 AM »
I'm confused -- why would you send the money to the parent(s) instead of the now adult directly?
Several reasons. They're a very tight knit family. Doing that would piss the parents off.

Any parent who would be pissed off you gave money to their ADULT children for their school expenses, with no strings attached, is someone you should ditch as  a friend.   Their head isn't on straight.


AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6385 on: April 20, 2021, 07:58:44 AM »
...
Any parent who would be pissed off you gave money to their ADULT children for their school expenses, with no strings attached, is someone you should ditch as  a friend.   Their head isn't on straight.

Agreed.

Adventine

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6386 on: April 20, 2021, 08:02:19 AM »
I'm confused -- why would you send the money to the parent(s) instead of the now adult directly?
Several reasons. They're a very tight knit family. Doing that would piss the parents off.

Any parent who would be pissed off you gave money to their ADULT children for their school expenses, with no strings attached, is someone you should ditch as  a friend.   Their head isn't on straight.

I get how some parents would perceive it as an irreparable loss of face. Some people value their pride more than anything, because it's all they have.

Still, if graduation announcements were a norm, they should have done it. And most importantly, thanked Dicey for the contribution. Not doing that is just ungrateful.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6387 on: April 20, 2021, 09:48:12 AM »
I think it's important to talk about money early on, maybe not about specific figures yet, but I feel it's important to tell early on that I'm frugal by choice. I'm not poor, this is how I want to live forever. If that's not your thing, fine, but then you're not the one for me.

Everyone should date one of these people or be aware of them anyhow. I dated one off and on for a while. I was pretty naive back then. Am glad the topic presented itself when it did. It was clear indication to me that we should go our separate ways. A fundamental problem that was insurmountable. 

It was about then that I realized we were getting serious but not talking about the serious things that couples need to communicate about when trying to build a long term relationship. Fortunately DW came along when she did (a couple years later).

Oroadsm

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6388 on: May 01, 2021, 05:40:56 PM »


[/quote]

I have opened an investment account in my name with my niece as a beneficiary and will do the same for future nieces or nephews. That way I can control the money until they are old enough to deal with it themselves if I donít die before that.

For birthdays and Christmas I make a deposit instead of buying some crap. She actually likes books so maybe I will end up buying presents sometimes but I prefer this way. I tell my sister that I have deposited money into the account.
[/quote]

We did this for 4 of our nieces and nephews, but as a custodial account -- the beneficiary idea is much better. With a custodial account, the money is automatically theirs at 21, no matter whether they are ready or not for a windfall at that age.  We opened the accounts when they were born and put in $25/month.  The oldest just received over $14,000 -- the stock market was very good to him.

The other 2 got a 529 account after I realized the custodial mistake.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6389 on: May 03, 2021, 10:16:49 AM »
I think it's important to talk about money early on, maybe not about specific figures yet, but I feel it's important to tell early on that I'm frugal by choice. I'm not poor, this is how I want to live forever. If that's not your thing, fine, but then you're not the one for me.

Everyone should date one of these people or be aware of them anyhow. I dated one off and on for a while. I was pretty naive back then. Am glad the topic presented itself when it did. It was clear indication to me that we should go our separate ways. A fundamental problem that was insurmountable. 

It was about then that I realized we were getting serious but not talking about the serious things that couples need to communicate about when trying to build a long term relationship. Fortunately DW came along when she did (a couple years later).

I am long term casually seeing a guy. One of the reasons I am attracted to him is that he works hard and basically saves his money (puts his money into his properties); he sees money as a tool and not to waste it. Sometimes he does verge into tightwad (being cheap for the sake of it) category, but overall it is a refreshing change from my ex who is a decent person but has no sense about money (still doesn't).

I do have to admit that the one area I still have a hang up about are people who are in the prime of their life and choose not to work or underwork. It has to do with how I was raised (and also knowing examples of people who lived like that who ended up in difficulties because they were no longer healthy 20 year olds living on little who also could just pick up jobs when they felt like it).   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 10:19:33 AM by partgypsy »

AlanStache

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6390 on: May 03, 2021, 02:16:49 PM »
...

I do have to admit that the one area I still have a hang up about are people who are in the prime of their life and choose not to work or underwork. It has to do with how I was raised (and also knowing examples of people who lived like that who ended up in difficulties because they were no longer healthy 20 year olds living on little who also could just pick up jobs when they felt like it).

But that is like my goal! :-)  Granted I may be a little to the right of prime but not that much.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6391 on: May 04, 2021, 02:35:09 AM »
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

I'm late to this party, but I was missing just the other day over how weird it is that we believe our children are obviously the most wonderful, fascinating children in existence - but also recognise that the odds are that they're pretty average. We have a very articulate three year old who can speak in complex sentences and has memorised several books but has only recently learned to take his own trousers off and sometimes loses the ability to reliably count to four.

My parents insist that he's a genius. No, I think he's brilliant but he's clearly ahead of the curve in some areas and behind in others which makes him... drumroll... average. AND THAT'S OK. He's got YEARS to find his real talents and interests, and figure out what he wants from life. And y'know, maybe he'll grow up to be a bin man and just potter along in life providing an essential service to hundreds of people every day. Because right now, our local bin men are his heroes. He doesn't have to be Prime Minister or win a Nobel Prize or be a NYT bestseller to be a good human being.

It makes me really cross and sad when believing that your children are great turns into insisting that they're great at everything. It looks like conditional love to the children, and if they're not superhumanly brave they'll never want to risk testing if it is or not by asserting themselves or trying something they might fail at.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6392 on: May 04, 2021, 06:33:47 AM »
...

I do have to admit that the one area I still have a hang up about are people who are in the prime of their life and choose not to work or underwork. It has to do with how I was raised (and also knowing examples of people who lived like that who ended up in difficulties because they were no longer healthy 20 year olds living on little who also could just pick up jobs when they felt like it).

But that is like my goal! :-)  Granted I may be a little to the right of prime but not that much.

That's why I'm not a true mustachian, can't buck that part of my programming.

partgypsy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6393 on: May 04, 2021, 06:39:32 AM »
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

I'm late to this party, but I was missing just the other day over how weird it is that we believe our children are obviously the most wonderful, fascinating children in existence - but also recognise that the odds are that they're pretty average. We have a very articulate three year old who can speak in complex sentences and has memorised several books but has only recently learned to take his own trousers off and sometimes loses the ability to reliably count to four.

My parents insist that he's a genius. No, I think he's brilliant but he's clearly ahead of the curve in some areas and behind in others which makes him... drumroll... average. AND THAT'S OK. He's got YEARS to find his real talents and interests, and figure out what he wants from life. And y'know, maybe he'll grow up to be a bin man and just potter along in life providing an essential service to hundreds of people every day. Because right now, our local bin men are his heroes. He doesn't have to be Prime Minister or win a Nobel Prize or be a NYT bestseller to be a good human being.

It makes me really cross and sad when believing that your children are great turns into insisting that they're great at everything. It looks like conditional love to the children, and if they're not superhumanly brave they'll never want to risk testing if it is or not by asserting themselves or trying something they might fail at.
I do think that it is important to show your kids unconditonal love. That no matter what you have their back. For me the thing I have fallen down on, was my parents were a weird mix of strict in some things and permissive/absentee parenting in other areas. And because I work I have def been more on the permissive (oh they'll turn out OK) with occasional freakouts that I'm not doing what I need to do to prepare them for the world.

But I understand that kid thing. I think both of my kids are really special. Not necessarily the most smart, talented, etc person in the world or in any one dimension, but in the way that they are (I'm starting to sound like Mr. Rogers). It is funny though my youngest kid said to me "You are the 2nd most smartest person I know". I said "who is the first?" and she answered her older daughter (whom she idolizes a little).  First reaction was "aw that is nice" 2nd thought,  you need to get out more. I will fully admit even though I have a PhD and was not a slouch in my day, my older daughter is smarter than me in the traditional way (school, exams, abstract reasoning - if it is logic based games she destroys us). I also know pure smarts is not a predictor of predictor of success. 
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 06:43:03 AM by partgypsy »

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6394 on: May 04, 2021, 06:43:23 AM »
It makes me really cross and sad when believing that your children are great turns into insisting that they're great at everything. It looks like conditional love to the children, and if they're not superhumanly brave they'll never want to risk testing if it is or not by asserting themselves or trying something they might fail at.

You are SO RIGHT!

And that fear of failing is one of the biggest self-imprisonment reasons there is.


DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6395 on: May 10, 2021, 09:37:42 AM »
Between Easter and Mother's Day yesterday, I think my SIL has told us that we "need" to get a Peloton at least six times.

Apparently, it's not possible to lose weight or stay in shape if we don't spend $1,800 + $40/month for a stationary bike and a spin class.

However, I'm the villain when I tell her repeatedly that it's not happening.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6396 on: May 10, 2021, 09:57:35 AM »
Between Easter and Mother's Day yesterday, I think my SIL has told us that we "need" to get a Peloton at least six times.

Apparently, it's not possible to lose weight or stay in shape if we don't spend $1,800 + $40/month for a stationary bike and a spin class.

However, I'm the villain when I tell her repeatedly that it's not happening.

"You've brought this up at least seven times!   WHY is my buying a Peloton so VERY IMPORTANT to you?  Please explain."

Or, alternatively, if you really don't give a rat's ass why it's important to them and have absolutely no interest in hearing their explanation and don't mind pissing them off to get them to STFU about it,

"I've already told you I am not going to do that six times already.   So STFU about it.   End of discussion."    And after they try to get in another word about it, 'cause they most likely will, "What part of STFU about this did you NOT understand?   Do I need to use simpler words?"    And when they tell you that you don't have to get all angry about it, "Well, apparently I DO -- because the last SIX TIMES I was polite about it didn't get you to STFU about it."

Clarity in communication is important. :)

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6397 on: May 10, 2021, 09:58:24 AM »
Between Easter and Mother's Day yesterday, I think my SIL has told us that we "need" to get a Peloton at least six times.

Apparently, it's not possible to lose weight or stay in shape if we don't spend $1,800 + $40/month for a stationary bike and a spin class.

However, I'm the villain when I tell her repeatedly that it's not happening.

Another reason to avoid Peloton:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/business/peloton-treadmill-recall/index.html

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6398 on: May 10, 2021, 10:01:11 AM »
Between Easter and Mother's Day yesterday, I think my SIL has told us that we "need" to get a Peloton at least six times.

Apparently, it's not possible to lose weight or stay in shape if we don't spend $1,800 + $40/month for a stationary bike and a spin class.

However, I'm the villain when I tell her repeatedly that it's not happening.

Another reason to avoid Peloton:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/05/business/peloton-treadmill-recall/index.html

Apparently you can do Peloton activities with much cheaper stationary bikes? I have a pretty sensible Facebook friend (I mean, not a Mustachian or anything, but appears to live within her means and doesn't do fancy shit just to do fancy shit) who has gone this route. I don't quite understand how it works but I think she pays for a subscription of some kind and she seems really happy with the arrangement, especially in the quarantimes.

But pressuring someone else is just weird. Who cares?

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6399 on: May 10, 2021, 10:06:52 AM »
Between Easter and Mother's Day yesterday, I think my SIL has told us that we "need" to get a Peloton at least six times.

Apparently, it's not possible to lose weight or stay in shape if we don't spend $1,800 + $40/month for a stationary bike and a spin class.

However, I'm the villain when I tell her repeatedly that it's not happening.

"You've brought this up at least seven times!   WHY is my buying a Peloton so VERY IMPORTANT to you?  Please explain."

Or, alternatively, if you really don't give a rat's ass why it's important to them and have absolutely no interest in hearing their explanation and don't mind pissing them off to get them to STFU about it,

"I've already told you I am not going to do that six times already.   So STFU about it.   End of discussion."    And after they try to get in another word about it, 'cause they most likely will, "What part of STFU about this did you NOT understand?   Do I need to use simpler words?"    And when they tell you that you don't have to get all angry about it, "Well, apparently I DO -- because the last SIX TIMES I was polite about it didn't get you to STFU about it."

Clarity in communication is important. :)

I have made myself clear. My wife is already upset that I'm as blunt as I am, so having more clarity isn't an option. And SIL would happily share why she thinks we need to get one.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!