Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 3389656 times)

Engineer93

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6250 on: February 17, 2021, 05:32:28 AM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother, who told me he makes "between $32k and $37k a year" just bought a house for $215k and then put over $60k renovations into it.  The transmission in his car just blew and he was thinking about buying a new f150 but thankfully decided to just fix the transmission.  He said he is now waiting to get a new f150 or f250 when he receives a raise.  Thankfully my girlfriend is not like this at all.

Well, the time has come and brother-in-law has received a "30% raise" and is now planning to buy a new truck.  For his sake I am hoping the dealership does not approve him for financing, but I know they will take every customer they can get.

RWD

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6251 on: February 17, 2021, 07:51:39 AM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother [...]
[...] brother-in-law [...]
Congrats on your marriage!

Yeah, 30% raise sounds awesome but applied to a ~$35k salary means he's still only around $45-50k or so now. Not exactly the threshold at which most of us here would start looking at lifestyle inflation.

Dave1442397

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6252 on: February 18, 2021, 05:52:28 AM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother, who told me he makes "between $32k and $37k a year" just bought a house for $215k and then put over $60k renovations into it.  The transmission in his car just blew and he was thinking about buying a new f150 but thankfully decided to just fix the transmission.  He said he is now waiting to get a new f150 or f250 when he receives a raise.  Thankfully my girlfriend is not like this at all.

Well, the time has come and brother-in-law has received a "30% raise" and is now planning to buy a new truck.  For his sake I am hoping the dealership does not approve him for financing, but I know they will take every customer they can get.

They'll definitely approve him. The worse his credit rating, the higher the interest rate.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6253 on: February 18, 2021, 09:09:58 PM »
Not a relative (yet) but my girlfriends brother, who told me he makes "between $32k and $37k a year" just bought a house for $215k and then put over $60k renovations into it.  The transmission in his car just blew and he was thinking about buying a new f150 but thankfully decided to just fix the transmission.  He said he is now waiting to get a new f150 or f250 when he receives a raise.  Thankfully my girlfriend is not like this at all.

Well, the time has come and brother-in-law has received a "30% raise" and is now planning to buy a new truck.  For his sake I am hoping the dealership does not approve him for financing, but I know they will take every customer they can get.

They'll definitely approve him. The worse his credit rating, the higher the interest rate.

Win-win...or something like that.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6254 on: March 01, 2021, 03:49:57 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.

I'm so sorry all of you had to go through that. I can't imagine how heartbreaking that must be. First the secret excitement about a pregnancy, then a massive loss, and one you're not "supposed" to share with other people.

I'm also open about it to friends and acquintances (and tried to with family, but that's a complicated story). I have never tried to get pregnant at all, but for medical reasons I was strongly advised not to have children. We have decided that we are going to follow that advice. It's very sad of course, but since I have known this since I was 17, and was open about it to my partner from the beginning, it's not such an acute heartbreak. It's more a lingering sadness. It's very different from trying to get pregnant and it just doesn't happen, or worse, suffering from a miscarriage or a stillbirth, I think.

When I do tell people, very often women try to reassure me and tell me to be patient, who knows what may happen, they fell pregnant after x years of trying, and I always tell them I'm very happy for them, but that's not the situation I'm in. Unless a miracule drug is invented, well, today or tomorrow, there's no way my health would improve so much and so fast that I'd be able to get pregnant in time before my fertility clock runs out - assuming I am fertile, which isn't a certainty for women with my illness either. Actually, falling pregnant is my biggest fear. I don't think I'd be able to end a pregnancy, but it would be a major risk for my own health and that of the baby.
Iím sorry you are in the situation of not being able to have something you might have wanted.

I also had two miscarriages in the second trimester, so far enough along that it was a surprise and fairly rare. I felt so shocked at the first one because people donít talk about this stuff so I didnít know it was a possibility.
I also struggled with infertility with subsequent pregnancies, high-risk pregnancies, preterm babies, and all of that.
At one point it was a possibility that the only way to have our own genetic children would have been through a surrogate.

I am very open about it all to demonstrate it is ok to talk about and hopefully save someone else from the surprise. This stuff does happen and more frequently than we would like.

ysette9

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6255 on: March 01, 2021, 03:53:02 PM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.
Iím sorry it was such a struggle.

One of my pet peeves is how society tends to talk about babies as though they are all kittens and rainbows. I get it, I really wanted my babies and thought the world of them.
But you know, they also really suck. Like, really truly suck. My first year+ of life with each of my babies was pure hell. I felt guilt and overall even worse for having these feeling because I was supposed to be happy and babies were supposed to be great.

mm1970

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6256 on: March 01, 2021, 06:49:13 PM »
Sword, thatís the depressing part of retirement communities. You hear ambulance sirens all the time. Seeing so many people die would be depressing.
We have three rentals in a large senior community. The back of one of them is directly across from the (external) Fire/Paramedic Station. It is on a greenbelt, gets incredible sunsets and was the perfect combination of dilapidation/price, so we did our research before we bought it. Turns out, the emergency responders use their lights, not their sirens for most calls. Our post-rehab tenants chose this property specifically for the sunsets and aren't bothered by the station at all.

In pre-Covid times, this community boasts over 80 clubs, several restaurants, a large theater, multiple pools, gyms, golf courses, sport courts, a ballroom, classrooms, a post office, a great honor system library, and more. There is an external shopping center with restaurants, full service grocery and hardware stores, plus a host of peripheral small businesses, all accessible via golf cart and a private gate, so no city street driving required. To top it off, it is way more affordable than where we live now.

The thing about aging and mortality is that either you and or friends are all going to die eventually, no matter where you live. In non-age specific areas, the new neighbors are likely to be young couples with babies, who don't even notice the "old" folks next door. #askmehowIknow. At least in Senior communities, vacancies are filled with people you're more likely to have commonality with, and who have time for new friendships.
Young couples with babies probably don't notice...anything. #askmehowIknow

I realize that my youngest is now 8.5, but I still remember those infant days (and not always fondly!)  I lived in a constant state of utter exhaustion and confusion.  For about 3 years.  Times two.

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6257 on: March 01, 2021, 11:35:51 PM »
Sword, thatís the depressing part of retirement communities. You hear ambulance sirens all the time. Seeing so many people die would be depressing.
We have three rentals in a large senior community. The back of one of them is directly across from the (external) Fire/Paramedic Station. It is on a greenbelt, gets incredible sunsets and was the perfect combination of dilapidation/price, so we did our research before we bought it. Turns out, the emergency responders use their lights, not their sirens for most calls. Our post-rehab tenants chose this property specifically for the sunsets and aren't bothered by the station at all.

In pre-Covid times, this community boasts over 80 clubs, several restaurants, a large theater, multiple pools, gyms, golf courses, sport courts, a ballroom, classrooms, a post office, a great honor system library, and more. There is an external shopping center with restaurants, full service grocery and hardware stores, plus a host of peripheral small businesses, all accessible via golf cart and a private gate, so no city street driving required. To top it off, it is way more affordable than where we live now.

The thing about aging and mortality is that either you and or friends are all going to die eventually, no matter where you live. In non-age specific areas, the new neighbors are likely to be young couples with babies, who don't even notice the "old" folks next door. #askmehowIknow. At least in Senior communities, vacancies are filled with people you're more likely to have commonality with, and who have time for new friendships.
Young couples with babies probably don't notice...anything. #askmehowIknow

I realize that my youngest is now 8.5, but I still remember those infant days (and not always fondly!)  I lived in a constant state of utter exhaustion and confusion.  For about 3 years.  Times two.
Yeah, I said "babies" when I should have said "children". I grok the difference and wasn't clear. None of them are parents of newborns.

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6258 on: March 02, 2021, 12:29:52 AM »
Oh yes. I had 2 miscarriages before I had my first child and I was sometimes brought to tears by people asking this. I finally just started telling them about the miscarriages, no matter how awkward the situation. Now I am very open about it because I want others who experience it to know they are not alone.

Yes.

When I had my miscarriage (first pregnancy, wanted baby, devastating) it was amazing how many women told me they had had them and then had children.  I had had no idea any of them had had a miscarriage.  It was very comforting. It is another of those taboo topics, it seems.

I had no clue how common it was before I had my first one, and I studied obgyn stuff in nursing school. The worst part is I had no bleeding and found out at my ultrasound. I just thought I was having an easy pregnancy. Felt like a terrible failure.

The second worst part was that I didn't tell my mom about it and a couple months later she shamed me for not having children yet. I burst into tears at the table. The third worst part was having another one six months later.

Then it took me 18 months to get pregnant again and have my son. I ended up with c section and was unable to produce enough milk for my baby and had to supplement. Had terrible ppd. Cried every day and felt like a failure again. Really thought something was wrong with me the whole time.

Meanwhile my spectacularly irresponsible SIL got pregnant from a one night stand with her ex. This was her fourth child and she was 35 at the time. Breastfed him until he was 4.
Iím sorry it was such a struggle.

One of my pet peeves is how society tends to talk about babies as though they are all kittens and rainbows. I get it, I really wanted my babies and thought the world of them.
But you know, they also really suck. Like, really truly suck. My first year+ of life with each of my babies was pure hell. I felt guilt and overall even worse for having these feeling because I was supposed to be happy and babies were supposed to be great.

One of my friends told me that if they had known before how damn hard it is to have kids, they probably would have chosen to not have children. It doesnít mean though that they wished their kids away.

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6259 on: March 02, 2021, 07:45:12 AM »
DW and I have quietly said the same thing during the deepest darkness teenage drama moments. We adore our kids.

I've said it before - wish this forum existed about 30 years ago when we were young and dumb and dating. Would have made better choices sooner.

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6260 on: March 02, 2021, 07:57:38 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6261 on: March 02, 2021, 10:07:27 AM »
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6262 on: March 02, 2021, 10:15:41 AM »
Quote
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

DW and I were talking about exactly this last night. Like, what if your kid is just average? Will you be ok with that? I think it takes a sort of courage to accept that your kid is not the next Tom Brady/Beethoven, etc.*

*I don't have children, so I feel unqualified to discuss parenting, but i do think that Helicopter parenting can be a net negative for the child so helicoptered.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6263 on: March 02, 2021, 10:16:52 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
First children will often drive people to make unwise choices.  DW and I had our first while we were in college.  We realized that 1) the market is absolutely saturated with lightly-(or un)used baby clothes and gear, and 2) babies don't actually need much.  Car seat, portacrib, onesies, swaddling blankets, pacifier, burp cloths, and diapers.  And lots of love, time, and patience :)

DadJokes

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6264 on: March 02, 2021, 10:20:25 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

Looks like you just got out of having to buy/make gifts for anything.

I've never gotten why people throw rationality to the wind when it comes to babies. I also can't sympathize with people who complain about how expensive children are (with the exception of medical expenses). If we leave out the hospital bills from the childbirth, our toddler hasn't cost much more than the tax credits he's gotten us. Almost everything he uses is hand-me-down (and then we pass that stuff along when we're done with it).

TomTX

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6265 on: March 02, 2021, 11:13:56 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

Looks like you just got out of having to buy/make gifts for anything.

I've never gotten why people throw rationality to the wind when it comes to babies. I also can't sympathize with people who complain about how expensive children are (with the exception of medical expenses). If we leave out the hospital bills from the childbirth, our toddler hasn't cost much more than the tax credits he's gotten us. Almost everything he uses is hand-me-down (and then we pass that stuff along when we're done with it).

Yeah, baby/toddler costs were quite low for us, other than carseat, diapers and similar consumables (tried cloth for awhile, didn't work out for us) - lots of used gear, and some of the used stuff we bought actually resold at a slightly higher price when it was time to get rid of it (the pack-n-play comes to mind)

UpNAtom

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6266 on: March 02, 2021, 11:34:05 AM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.

Looks like you just got out of having to buy/make gifts for anything.

I've never gotten why people throw rationality to the wind when it comes to babies. I also can't sympathize with people who complain about how expensive children are (with the exception of medical expenses). If we leave out the hospital bills from the childbirth, our toddler hasn't cost much more than the tax credits he's gotten us. Almost everything he uses is hand-me-down (and then we pass that stuff along when we're done with it).

With all the used items, credits, sales, etc... by far the two biggest expenses have been: daycare and education savings (and one of those would have been "easy" to drop)

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6267 on: March 02, 2021, 12:49:38 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
You fixed their plumbing and they didn't even pretend to accept the onesie with gratitude? You can have all the whining runway in the world, @Hall11235! Haha, just wait until that kid has pooped all over everything. They'll long for just one more clean onesie. Too bad for them.

Hall11235

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6268 on: March 02, 2021, 02:00:35 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
You fixed their plumbing and they didn't even pretend to accept the onesie with gratitude? You can have all the whining runway in the world, @Hall11235! Haha, just wait until that kid has pooped all over everything. They'll long for just one more clean onesie. Too bad for them.

I can only imagine the amount of poop... blech. Also, more cute onesies for the eventual child we'll have!

The SIL is deep in the Facebook Pregnancy groups. This week is the 'prepare your emergency hospital trip bag' according to the week-by-week checklist they are following. So, of course, a brand new bag, brand new outfits 'just in case.'  This has to be unusual, right? I also think it is super interesting that this is the first generation of moms, really, that are social media adept. I wonder how that impacts the financial incentives to spend on baby shit (for the 'gram, etc.).

It just seems so crazy to me that we come this far. My FIL was one of ELEVEN children, and he grew up in a 1400 square foot home, with 3 bedrooms, and 1 bathroom, and he survived (mostly, lol). Now, apparently, we need biometric socks or we're bad parents? Yikers.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6269 on: March 02, 2021, 03:43:08 PM »
Quote
I feel really bad for these kids. How can they ever be as wonderful as their parents believe?

DW and I were talking about exactly this last night. Like, what if your kid is just average? Will you be ok with that? I think it takes a sort of courage to accept that your kid is not the next Tom Brady/Beethoven, etc.*

*I don't have children, so I feel unqualified to discuss parenting, but i do think that Helicopter parenting can be a net negative for the child so helicoptered.

Oh gosh, no one has average children!  Just like no one has ugly children!

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6270 on: March 02, 2021, 06:23:51 PM »
Now, apparently, we need biometric socks or we're bad parents?

The idea of a biometric baby sock baffled me so much that I had to google it. Behold: https://owletcare.com.au/blogs/blog/smart-sock-technology-a-closer-look

I could see this being a critical innovation if you have a sick baby who truly needs their blood oxygen levels constantly monitored. The fact that it's being advertised to "track wellness" makes me a little twitchy.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6271 on: March 02, 2021, 06:29:31 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
to be blunt, y'all are enabling the soon-to-be-parents.
it is going to get worse for them when the baby is born. how will they learn to HTFU?

Monerexia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6272 on: March 02, 2021, 10:33:56 PM »
My SIL and BIL are having their first child. Based on their attitude, you would think this is Jesus Christ reborn. $300 Biometric socks, $400 breathable mattresses, etc. EVERYTHING had to be new. My DW made the baby a very nice onesie while practicing her sewing, and my SIL said, "No thanks, it doesn't fit our nursery color scheme." Both Parents-in-law had to buy a new crib for their houses in preparation for the baby. It now has THREE cribs across three different houses.

Of course, during this time, my SIL has been using her pregnancy to get out of basically every possible task. DW and I painted their nursery, and fixed their wall when their pipes burst. I'll stop here, since I am trending into super whiney territory, lol.

People talk about the wedding industry being a racket, but, holy fuck, do people throw rationality out the window when it comes to their children.
to be blunt, y'all are enabling the soon-to-be-parents.
it is going to get worse for them when the baby is born. how will they learn to HTFU?

Yeah I'm full-on allergic to any whiff of entitlement at this point. Almost to the point of hives haha.

ChickenStash

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6273 on: March 03, 2021, 09:48:07 AM »
I have some relatives that created kind of a weird situation for themselves and they're trying to pull me in. They recently retired and built a new, expensive house in a new subdivision. For some complicated reasons, they decided to build another, nearly identical house a few lots down. Recently, they have been coming after me to buy this new house (still under construction) even though I already have a house that suits me just fine. They keep trying to convince me this will be a great investment because they know that I invest a lot (ie. I put money in index funds and watch it grow).

For some numbers... In my area, a run of the mill 3/2, 1500+/- ft2 used house in the 'burbs would run $150k-225k - this is pretty much where I am now with a somewhat updated 1950s ranch home. This new place they are trying to get me to "invest" in is still 3/2 but around 2500ft2 and, based on similar houses in the neighborhood, will likely go for...<drumroll>... $650k! Holy freaking Hannah! What the heck am I supposed to do with a $650k house? The mortgage alone would be 4x what I'm paying now. Not sure about taxes since it is in a different city but I can't imagine them being less than 2-3x what I have now.

I think I've almost convinced them (as tactfully as I can) I don't want it, but they are still occasionally pinging me about it. $650k...yeesh. Sure, I could swing the mortgage payment, but all that money is currently being funneled into investments. It would probably set my FIRE date back 10 years. Thanks, but no thanks.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6274 on: March 03, 2021, 12:24:44 PM »
Somewhat Updated 1950s Ranch Homes are the best @ChickenStash

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6275 on: March 03, 2021, 01:11:49 PM »
I have some relatives that created kind of a weird situation for themselves and they're trying to pull me in. They recently retired and built a new, expensive house in a new subdivision. For some complicated reasons, they decided to build another, nearly identical house a few lots down. Recently, they have been coming after me to buy this new house (still under construction) even though I already have a house that suits me just fine. They keep trying to convince me this will be a great investment because they know that I invest a lot (ie. I put money in index funds and watch it grow).

For some numbers... In my area, a run of the mill 3/2, 1500+/- ft2 used house in the 'burbs would run $150k-225k - this is pretty much where I am now with a somewhat updated 1950s ranch home. This new place they are trying to get me to "invest" in is still 3/2 but around 2500ft2 and, based on similar houses in the neighborhood, will likely go for...<drumroll>... $650k! Holy freaking Hannah! What the heck am I supposed to do with a $650k house? The mortgage alone would be 4x what I'm paying now. Not sure about taxes since it is in a different city but I can't imagine them being less than 2-3x what I have now.

I think I've almost convinced them (as tactfully as I can) I don't want it, but they are still occasionally pinging me about it. $650k...yeesh. Sure, I could swing the mortgage payment, but all that money is currently being funneled into investments. It would probably set my FIRE date back 10 years. Thanks, but no thanks.

Buying bigger and better homes are one of the many reasons actors, sports figures and others go broke trying to keep the mansions afloat. Bigger means people on your payroll to maintain the inside of the mansion and the outside landscaping. Then furnishing the mansion. Not to mention your car could be an embarrasment to the neighborhood and you probably need an upgrade. Then it will be an inground pool and people to maintain the pool. It is a snowball effect. Needing more and more and more to maintain your new lifestyle! If you are happy with your upgraded 50's house, stick with it. I think that is a great idea!
« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 08:09:37 AM by Roadrunner53 »

Just Joe

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6276 on: March 04, 2021, 10:03:25 AM »
Relatives trying to profit off of you? I'd stick with your 1950s rancher if you like the house and the location.

Real estate markets are hot, they'll sell it soon enough. Unless the bubble pops. ;)

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6277 on: March 04, 2021, 11:51:56 AM »
Relatives trying to profit off of you? I'd stick with your 1950s rancher if you like the house and the location.

Real estate markets are hot, they'll sell it soon enough. Unless the bubble pops. ;)

Yep for me it's zero financial transactions with family members, for any reason, at any time, in any way, in this life and the next. That lesson was one of the hardest I have ever had to learn--man oh man never again haha

LinneaH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6278 on: March 08, 2021, 07:47:27 AM »
After my divorce last year, I decided to not buy "all the house (apartment) I can" but rather keep it on the smaller side, while still letting my sons have enough space/their own rooms. This is both to not have too high living costs, but also because I want to live more minimalistic as it suits my personality. So I have a foldable sofa bed in the living room, which is something I have slept for long periods before (1yr+) so I know it works for me, I am the type of person who folds it away every morning.
Also, the place is in a very good area, great communications, good food store walking distance, a park right outside, great neighbours etc and the apartment is in a very good shape, all walls newly painted, lots of light coming in.

So my sister, who is single, no kids, making quite a lot of money, and spend it all... she has this need to tell me how I should live my life.
This conversation happens about once a month:

Sis: you know you have to move to a bigger place soon
Me: No, I am not planning to do that
S: you know who have to have another room, you will not like to live like this
M: I think I will, as I have done it before, and I have done it now for some months, and I like it. And if I feel I really want to, I have the possibility to buy something bigger, so it's absolutely my own choice, but for now, I am very happy with this
S: you cannot live like this, you will see soon
M: (changing subject)


I have said that I am planning to retire earlier than standard, without giving any details. She knows I am good at managing money and saving
So, in another conversation:
M: I plan to retire earlier than 65 yrs
S: well I know you said so before, but it is not possible
M: this is what I plan
S: well, now when you have kids, it's absolutely not doable
M: (changing subject)

I am a bit tired that she
a) knows so much about what is finacially possible or not, while still borrowing money from our parents
b) know so much about how I should live my life and how I will feel about the choices I have made
c) cannot keep quiet, but feel she has to tell me off over and over again...


iluvzbeach

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6279 on: March 08, 2021, 08:41:16 AM »
@LinneaH, you will get the last laugh when you prove her wrong by retiring early and live happily & comfortably in your apartment.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6280 on: March 08, 2021, 08:49:29 AM »
After my divorce last year, I decided to not buy "all the house (apartment) I can" but rather keep it on the smaller side, while still letting my sons have enough space/their own rooms. This is both to not have too high living costs, but also because I want to live more minimalistic as it suits my personality. So I have a foldable sofa bed in the living room, which is something I have slept for long periods before (1yr+) so I know it works for me, I am the type of person who folds it away every morning.
Also, the place is in a very good area, great communications, good food store walking distance, a park right outside, great neighbours etc and the apartment is in a very good shape, all walls newly painted, lots of light coming in.

So my sister, who is single, no kids, making quite a lot of money, and spend it all... she has this need to tell me how I should live my life.
This conversation happens about once a month:

Sis: you know you have to move to a bigger place soon
Me: No, I am not planning to do that
S: you know who have to have another room, you will not like to live like this
M: I think I will, as I have done it before, and I have done it now for some months, and I like it. And if I feel I really want to, I have the possibility to buy something bigger, so it's absolutely my own choice, but for now, I am very happy with this
S: you cannot live like this, you will see soon
M: (changing subject)


I have said that I am planning to retire earlier than standard, without giving any details. She knows I am good at managing money and saving
So, in another conversation:
M: I plan to retire earlier than 65 yrs
S: well I know you said so before, but it is not possible
M: this is what I plan
S: well, now when you have kids, it's absolutely not doable
M: (changing subject)

I am a bit tired that she
a) knows so much about what is finacially possible or not, while still borrowing money from our parents
b) know so much about how I should live my life and how I will feel about the choices I have made
c) cannot keep quiet, but feel she has to tell me off over and over again...

A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.   

To keep things in proper perspective, you have:

(a) repeatedly tried to nicely handle this and
(b) she has repeatedly ignored your request and
(c) she thinks she has a license to negatively comment on how you run your life and
(d) you are rightly damned tired of it.

Always be nice.    If hinting nicely doesn't work, be direct and blunt.  Nicely, but direct and blunt.

The following advice only applies when being nice simply does not work.    That's a shame, but remember, it's the other person's choice that being nice doesn't work.   

If you haven't been nicely blunt enough yet, I'll start off with a simple suggestion the next time these conversations come up:

"I have heard your opinion on this before.  I do not choose to hear it again.  We are done with this topic forever."

That's remaining nice but direct.    It's blunt.  You're acknowledging receipt of their advice, you haven't attacked them or their advice.   you're saying you've made your decision and the matter is closed.   This is nicely blunt.  No one should doubt your wishes after this statement.

It probably won't work but it's there as a sop to your conscience.

Follow up with, "I SAID we are done with this topic.  Shut up."

Follow up with "What part of SHUT THE FUCK UP DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?!"

Follow up with, "There is the door.  You may leave my home.  Come back when you remember your manners."  Adapt as needed to however/whenever/wherever these conversations happen.

This may or may not work, but it has the virtue of (a) possibly solving the problem promptly and (b) privately and (c) leaving them in no doubt about your position.  In other words, if it doesn't solve the problem then they have been warned.

If they persist, then it's time to REALLY transfer the pain back.   In ANY AND ALL social settings, it is imperative that you discuss your sister's inability to manage her finances properly.   It must be done in a way that everyone in the setting eventually understands that your sister cannot handle her finances responsibly and is acting as a leech on your parents, thus endangering the safety of your parent's retirement.    You must point out how irresponsible and childish and selfish and dangerous and cruel and unloving and, well, you get the idea.  There's no shortage of adjectives your sister will not like attached to her and they all apply.

Examples:

"I think it's shameful how you leech off of mom and dad for money.  It's so selfish!   Don't you realize that if you keep doing that they won't have enough to live on for retirement?  Do you want our parents to go hungry because you won't live within your means?    I thought you loved our parents, but I guess you don't since you keep leeching off of them."   Etc.   There are endless variations on this theme.

If you sister tries to deflect, just respond with, "I'll stop discussing this topic when you respect my choice of topics I do not wish to discuss."

This is an example of transferring the pain back to the person causing the problem.   If this doesn't work, then find another pain point and apply it.  Vigorously.

You could, of course, start the first iteration of a conversation like this in private.  That would be the nice thing to do.

If you're not willing to transfer the pain back, then learn to live with these conversations, because they won't stop unless you get lucky and your sister gets bored by them.

Oh by the way, if your sister does take the hint and stop bringing up those topics, expect her to switch to a different set of belittling commentaries on your lifestyle choices.    Bullies are like that.   The response is to raise an eyebrow, look them dead square in the eye and hold that gaze with intensity, and calmly ask, "Are we going to start discussing each other's lifestyle choices again?"   Don't look away until they do. 





« Last Edit: March 08, 2021, 09:20:22 AM by SwordGuy »

RetiredAt63

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6281 on: March 08, 2021, 09:34:08 AM »
^^  or, in one sentence, follow Captain Awkward's advice and return awkward to sender.

Miss Manners allows you to be polite and blunt and reply with some version of "why would you tell/ask me that?" for intrusive comments/questions.


SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6282 on: March 08, 2021, 10:21:59 AM »
^^  or, in one sentence, follow Captain Awkward's advice and return awkward to sender.

Miss Manners allows you to be polite and blunt and reply with some version of "why would you tell/ask me that?" for intrusive comments/questions.

That's a very good way of doing it as well.  It transfers the pain and awkwardness back to the person causing the problem.   It puts the spotlight on them in a "Where where you on the night of March the 3rd at 3am?" police investigation kind of way.  (As opposed to a "Look at me!  I want to hog the attention!" kind of way.

And if you don't like what they say because they counter with a different attack, you can just repeat the question.

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6283 on: March 08, 2021, 11:50:11 AM »
I've found that in many cases, it's worth taking the time to explore the premises which lead a person to make a statement like "you need to move into a bigger place."  If you drill down deep enough, you'll either A) find out what the questioner's actual, basic concern is, B) make the questioner uncomfortable enough that they drop the conversation, or C) expose the fact that there's no actual basis for the concern, and it's just the fact that you're doing something non-traditional or just different from them.  Here are some imaginary examples for how such a conversation could go:

Sis: you know you have to move to a bigger place soon
Me: Why would I want to do that?
S: you know who have to have another room, you will not like to live like this
M: What do you mean, "like this"?  What do I need another room for?
S: So you can have your own bedroom
M: Why do I need my own bedroom?
(A: the actual concern)
S: So you have privacy when getting dressed or whatever
M: I see.  I actually handle that need by <dressing in the bathroom, other solution, etc>, and I save $500/mo by living in a smaller space!
(B: they get uncomfortable)
S: So you can... um....you know...
M: .....?
(C: it's just non-traditional)
S: Because that's what parents do!
M: So?

AMandM

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6284 on: March 08, 2021, 12:22:18 PM »
Another possibility is D), you discover they are criticizing you in order to validate their choices. This is psychological self-preservation on their part if what you do seems to them like an indictment of what they do. E.g. if your sister is overspending on housing, but telling herself it's impossible to do otherwise, you are living proof that it's *not* impossible... so it's important that what you are doing be wrong somehow, to justify her not also doing it.

LinneaH

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6285 on: March 08, 2021, 01:24:44 PM »
I LOVE YOU ALL

I have been blunt with her before, but not on this topic, so I think it is time.
I will start with the more low-key version of "why do you say that?/what do you mean?" but I am guessing it wont help so I will then move to the SwordGuy method and go through the stages, I think that somewhere around here should do it:

If you haven't been nicely blunt enough yet, I'll start off with a simple suggestion the next time these conversations come up:

"I have heard your opinion on this before.  I do not choose to hear it again.  We are done with this topic forever."

That's remaining nice but direct.    It's blunt.  You're acknowledging receipt of their advice, you haven't attacked them or their advice.   you're saying you've made your decision and the matter is closed.   This is nicely blunt.  No one should doubt your wishes after this statement.


I should say that we have a good relationship most of the time, it's just this "I know better and I will tell you so" that drives me nuts. She is the type of person you have to be blunt towards, as she doesn't realise she can annoy and even hurt people (I am not hurt at all in this case, could be in other situations, but most people would be hurt from some things she say).

To be honest, I think she has some small worry that I won't be able to have a happy life, but I believe it's also that I am somehow making her choices less clever by showing it can be done in another way. I should add that I have not criticized her choices, if I had done that I believe she would be very upset.

Roadrunner53

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6286 on: March 08, 2021, 01:34:22 PM »
I think I would play games with her! Like get some pictures of a 'tiny' home and tell her you are looking to move into one of those. Something you can pull behind your car if need be. Tell her it has a loft for sleeping and is very compact. Maybe you could ask to park it in her driveway! https://www.ebay.com/itm/284062126067?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338765313&toolid=10001&customid=13f60fbb64c6aa2bb02963dd8efcb84a

MrMoogle

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6287 on: March 08, 2021, 02:00:59 PM »
My brother has been living in a ~2400 square foot house for ~4 years.  About a year and half ago he got married.  They just announced they're moving into a 3800 square foot house.  He's an engineer, and she will be when she graduates, so they can afford it, but I just don't understand.  When he got the 2400 sqft house, he had two or three good friends move in with him, so it didn't seem so bad.  Our dad retired early, so it's not like the idea is alien to him. 

I just want to ask WHHHHHHHHYYYYY?  Everything was finalized before I learned about it, so there's not much point in having a conversation about it.  I wish them the best.  It's just my brain hurts when I think about it.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6288 on: March 08, 2021, 02:05:43 PM »
I think I would play games with her! Like get some pictures of a 'tiny' home and tell her you are looking to move into one of those. Something you can pull behind your car if need be. Tell her it has a loft for sleeping and is very compact. Maybe you could ask to park it in her driveway! https://www.ebay.com/itm/284062126067?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338765313&toolid=10001&customid=13f60fbb64c6aa2bb02963dd8efcb84a

Oh, that's sweet!

SunnyDays

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6289 on: March 08, 2021, 08:41:14 PM »
I LOVE YOU ALL

I have been blunt with her before, but not on this topic, so I think it is time.
I will start with the more low-key version of "why do you say that?/what do you mean?" but I am guessing it wont help so I will then move to the SwordGuy method and go through the stages, I think that somewhere around here should do it:

If you haven't been nicely blunt enough yet, I'll start off with a simple suggestion the next time these conversations come up:

"I have heard your opinion on this before.  I do not choose to hear it again.  We are done with this topic forever."

That's remaining nice but direct.    It's blunt.  You're acknowledging receipt of their advice, you haven't attacked them or their advice.   you're saying you've made your decision and the matter is closed.   This is nicely blunt.  No one should doubt your wishes after this statement.


I should say that we have a good relationship most of the time, it's just this "I know better and I will tell you so" that drives me nuts. She is the type of person you have to be blunt towards, as she doesn't realise she can annoy and even hurt people (I am not hurt at all in this case, could be in other situations, but most people would be hurt from some things she say).

To be honest, I think she has some small worry that I won't be able to have a happy life, but I believe it's also that I am somehow making her choices less clever by showing it can be done in another way. I should add that I have not criticized her choices, if I had done that I believe she would be very upset.

Maybe try getting right to the point, as in ďYou donít have to agree with everything I do, but you need to stop telling me so.  Youíre hurting our relationship, because when you behave this way, I donít want to spend time with you.  If you cannot stop, I have to leave/ask you to leave.Ē  This will tell you how much she values the relationship.

Tass

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6290 on: March 08, 2021, 08:46:48 PM »
She is the type of person you have to be blunt towards

Sometimes I worry I am this type of person, and I am very grateful when people spell things out for me instead of trying to be subtle for the sake of politeness. Clarity of communication is precious.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6291 on: March 13, 2021, 08:51:39 PM »
To throw two bits into the ring, it seems like the usual criticism from someone threatened by seeing an alternative life choice. Most mustachians should be familiar with the "you can't do that, it is impossible" kind of comment (vegans get it too). People subconsciously (or consciously) get defensive when they see someone demonstrating a lifestyle that contradicts their assumptions. It really isn't a rational thing. Understanding this helps in being kind in reaction to their dumb comments.

A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.     

Swordguy, this is well said. I couldn't find anything on The Wendelken Law of Pain Management by searching the intertubes. Is the name just something you based on your friend or is it more formal?

Personally, I would only "transfer pain back" if it was not solvable some other way. Drawing boundaries is always good, though.

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6292 on: March 13, 2021, 09:00:28 PM »
To throw two bits into the ring, it seems like the usual criticism from someone threatened by seeing an alternative life choice. Most mustachians should be familiar with the "you can't do that, it is impossible" kind of comment (vegans get it too). People subconsciously (or consciously) get defensive when they see someone demonstrating a lifestyle that contradicts their assumptions. It really isn't a rational thing. Understanding this helps in being kind in reaction to their dumb comments.

A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.     

Swordguy, this is well said. I couldn't find anything on The Wendelken Law of Pain Management by searching the intertubes. Is the name just something you based on your friend or is it more formal?

Personally, I would only "transfer pain back" if it was not solvable some other way. Drawing boundaries is always good, though.

He came up with it so he gets the credit.   And he came up with it long before there was an internet for the general public to use, so it's not surprising it didn't get famous.

It's a long running problem and the people who are causing the pain are aware they are causing the problem for others and are UNWILLING to fix the problem.   That's when it's appropriate to transfer the pain back.

It's certainly inappropriate to transfer the pain back if the other folks don't know they're causing the problem.   And it's not appropriate to transfer it back if they (or those they report to) simply cannot transfer the problem.   I guess I should have spelled that out better, but it's definitely part of when the law should or should not be invoked.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2021, 09:06:02 PM by SwordGuy »

Dicey

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6293 on: March 13, 2021, 11:30:07 PM »
She is the type of person you have to be blunt towards

Sometimes I worry I am this type of person, and I am very grateful when people spell things out for me instead of trying to be subtle for the sake of politeness. Clarity of communication is precious.
Me three. If I had a dollar for every time I said, "But that's not what I meant!" I'd be FIRE. Oh, wait a minute...

Plina

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6294 on: March 14, 2021, 12:14:22 AM »
She is the type of person you have to be blunt towards

Sometimes I worry I am this type of person, and I am very grateful when people spell things out for me instead of trying to be subtle for the sake of politeness. Clarity of communication is precious.
Me three. If I had a dollar for every time I said, "But that's not what I meant!" I'd be FIRE. Oh, wait a minute...

Wouldnít the world be a lot nicer if people were more direct instead of wrapping it up in a lot of politness and diluting the message. And yes there is a difference between being rude and spelling things out.


Midwestern Mustachio

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6295 on: March 15, 2021, 12:24:33 PM »
My brother has been living in a ~2400 square foot house for ~4 years.  About a year and half ago he got married.  They just announced they're moving into a 3800 square foot house.  He's an engineer, and she will be when she graduates, so they can afford it, but I just don't understand.  When he got the 2400 sqft house, he had two or three good friends move in with him, so it didn't seem so bad.  Our dad retired early, so it's not like the idea is alien to him. 

I just want to ask WHHHHHHHHYYYYY?  Everything was finalized before I learned about it, so there's not much point in having a conversation about it.  I wish them the best.  It's just my brain hurts when I think about it.

My wife and I bought a 2400 sq ft 1.5 story home in Feb of last year. At the time, her parents (who are empty-nesters in a 3600 sq ft house), told us that it wouldn't be nearly enough space. We didn't have any kids at the time, and we'd previously been living in a 1200 sq ft town house (and before that, a 400 sq ft studio apt).

Cut to a year later, and there are still entire parts of the house that we enter maybe once a week. I've even had to add a recurring reminder on my calendar to do weekly rounds this spring to check for rain/water damage as the snow thaws.

We've considered downsizing, but the interest rate drop has caused home prices to balloon in our city. A 2 bedroom 1 bath 1200 sq ft single family home now goes for what we paid for our house. But that doesn't change the fact that we should have bought something smaller a year ago and put the difference into Betterment. I kick myself when I think about the market run we've had in the last 12 months. Oh well -- live and learn.

dandarc

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6296 on: March 15, 2021, 12:44:04 PM »
Pretty sure we'd be in the same place if we went to 2400 square feet - 1500 has proven to be more than enough space for us, particularly now that we're way more intentional with how the place is furnished - we had kind of just mashed 2 single-person's apartments worth of stuff together in our old place, then moved everything to new place when we bought it in 2014. But a temporary job on the west coast and renting the place out with the intention of returning in 12-18 months was the kick in the pants we needed to get rid of almost all the old furniture and make the house work far better for us.

I'm sure mother in law thinks we're nuts with this small house, particularly compared to theirs, but it was actually her idea that was really the key to making this whole thing work so much better - stop using long and narrow room as dining + living - get a dining table that fits another long and narrow room better than the one we had, and use the first long & narrow room as just a living room. House is like twice as big now than it used to be.

Mighty Eyebrows

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6297 on: March 15, 2021, 03:58:49 PM »
A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.     

Swordguy, this is well said. I couldn't find anything on The Wendelken Law of Pain Management by searching the intertubes. Is the name just something you based on your friend or is it more formal?

He came up with it so he gets the credit.   And he came up with it long before there was an internet for the general public to use, so it's not surprising it didn't get famous.

It took me a long time to figure this one out on my own, and have a few relatives that eventually needed some Wendelken Pain Management. I shall do my part to make his law known more widely!

SwordGuy

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6298 on: March 15, 2021, 05:37:22 PM »
A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.     

Swordguy, this is well said. I couldn't find anything on The Wendelken Law of Pain Management by searching the intertubes. Is the name just something you based on your friend or is it more formal?

He came up with it so he gets the credit.   And he came up with it long before there was an internet for the general public to use, so it's not surprising it didn't get famous.

It took me a long time to figure this one out on my own, and have a few relatives that eventually needed some Wendelken Pain Management. I shall do my part to make his law known more widely!

He also played a fair bit of cards in the student center in college (Spades primarily) and was a very good card player but with bad card luck.    His friends named a hand after him, the Wendelken Hand.   It was the 2, 3, 4 and 5 of diamonds, hearts and clubs, and the King of spades when his partner didn't have the Ace.     Couldn't take a trick unless he bid that he would take none, and then was pretty much guaranteed to be forced to take one.

Monerexia

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Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #6299 on: March 15, 2021, 10:39:35 PM »
A fellow I worked with taught me this many decades ago and it stuck with me because it's universally applicable.

It's The Wendelken Law of Pain Management.

The Law applies whenever there is a long running problem between people or groups of people.  If simple niceness hasn't already solved the problem, it's because those who cause the pain don't care and they are not those who feel the pain.   The way to solve the problem is to transfer the pain back to the person who caused it.     

Swordguy, this is well said. I couldn't find anything on The Wendelken Law of Pain Management by searching the intertubes. Is the name just something you based on your friend or is it more formal?

He came up with it so he gets the credit.   And he came up with it long before there was an internet for the general public to use, so it's not surprising it didn't get famous.

It took me a long time to figure this one out on my own, and have a few relatives that eventually needed some Wendelken Pain Management. I shall do my part to make his law known more widely!

Yes I like this but for family members who have betrayed me I don't care whether they feel pain, do not feel pain, get or do not get educated, I simply want, and have obtained for myself, their absence.