Relatives who just don't get it

[zolotiyeruki]

Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).

Electromechanical appliances for the win!  Our washer is now 15 years old.  We currently put 8+ washes through every week, and the only issues we've run into were worn agitator dogs ($5 and 15 minutes to replace, and it's a wear item) and a fill hose that got a small crack ($15ish and a bit longer to replace).  From my cold, dead hands....

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

[ixtap]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

Somebody missed the "/s" sarcasm marker...

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

Somebody missed the "/s" sarcasm marker...

DAMMIT!

[ixtap]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

[Frankies Girl]

Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).

Electromechanical appliances for the win!  Our washer is now 15 years old.  We currently put 8+ washes through every week, and the only issues we've run into were worn agitator dogs ($5 and 15 minutes to replace, and it's a wear item) and a fill hose that got a small crack ($15ish and a bit longer to replace).  From my cold, dead hands....

Oh my yes on the bolded part. :D

The agitator dogs was the other thing, and yeah totally easy and cheap to DIY. This washer has been going for 18 years for me, and we got it from the husband's grandfather who used it at least 5 years before that. It's a giant top loader and I love it. I'll genuinely cry when I have to replace it... in about 20 years.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

I feel so accepted! lol. But seriously, I have strong idiot tendencies......

[jinga nation]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

I feel so accepted! lol. But seriously, I have strong idiot tendencies......

you might have idiot tendencies, but you're still our mustachian having idiot tendencies... it's normal to have crazy tendencies. think about them as deviations from the norm or statistical outliers.

how's the re-opening going down there? Jacinda and Co. done a fantastic job?

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

I feel so accepted! lol. But seriously, I have strong idiot tendencies......

you might have idiot tendencies, but you're still our mustachian having idiot tendencies... it's normal to have crazy tendencies. think about them as deviations from the norm or statistical outliers.

how's the re-opening going down there? Jacinda and Co. done a fantastic job?

Yeah, we're at level one now, which is totally back to normal except the borders are closed. It's very strange seeing what's still going on overseas and having just nothing here. Still have the ubiquitous hand sanitiser and perspex screens, but no social distancing required now.

[RainyDay]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

Get rich, $10 at a time.
Get poor, $40 at a time.     /s

Indeed. 

On the plus side, they now use that gaping hole where the stove used to be as a storage area.  Win?

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh. 

[sherr]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

For a month's worth of cable they could have a reasonably good stove. I think it's a question of priorities and an overall decision to continue with what they're doing.

[ixtap]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

For a month's worth of cable they could have a reasonably good stove. I think it's a question of priorities and an overall decision to continue with what they're doing.

I think no one wants to cook.

[former player]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

For a month's worth of cable they could have a reasonably good stove. I think it's a question of priorities and an overall decision to continue with what they're doing.

I think no one wants to cook.

If they have one of those big spaces for a range cooker and the idea that only a brand name range cooker is suitable for their kitchen then very likely they don't have the cash for it.

[ChickenStash]

I guess I've got one. It involves a relative but they weren't the primary one getting the raised eyebrow.

To set the stage, my mom hit some hard times a few years ago due to trying to switch careers and some minor health issues popped up in the middle that delayed some of the training/certifications, blah blah. The end result is that she was out of work, burned through her savings and I chipped in and covered the majority of her living expenses for about a year while she got everything squared away. For my part, it wasn't a big deal (my mom isn't great with money but lives cheaply) and I didn't want to see her living under a bridge or, worse yet, with me. :)

Prior to and during all this she was seeing some guy, he moved in, and they were throwing around terms like fiance and engaged but he contributed nearly nothing to the household while I was covering the majority of the bills. Not a penny towards rent, rarely brought groceries, and when they would go on "road trips" to a casino (!) he would take her car because it was cheaper to drive than his pickup truck (that she bought for him before the job loss but that's a different story...sigh). How nice.

Anyway, at some point he decided that they should get a small fishing boat but he didn't have enough money for anything that would likely float so he gets a great idea. He asks my mom to ask me for a few grand because "<ChickenStash> has a lot and enjoys paying your way".  Say what?!? Thankfully, my mom reamed him a new one - I guess he somehow thought I was born with a decent job and a little in savings rather than having to spend years studying and working up the ladder for it like everyone else.  He eventually started to act more responsibly after a "come to Jesus" argument, but I can say that guy lost most of the respect I had for him.

[RetiredAt63]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

You 2 make me glad I'm still single all these years after the divorce. 

[iluvzbeach]

What you all describe sounds exactly like my dad with each of his handful of wives. Ruins them financially and finds the next one willing to fund his lifestyle...until she isn’t. Repeat.

[ysette9]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

[marty998]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

Writing this while I choke on my breakfast but she wouldn’t have to pay for his viagra in that case either!

[ysette9]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

Writing this while I choke on my breakfast but she wouldn’t have to pay for his viagra in that case either!

Even worse! She is paying to get laid and isn’t even getting functional equipment? There are better solutions out there.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

Writing this while I choke on my breakfast but she wouldn’t have to pay for his viagra in that case either!

Even worse! She is paying to get laid and isn’t even getting functional equipment? There are better solutions out there.

On a per-hour basis a gigolo would be a better deal. Same goes for men who get financially wrecked by their wives.

I'm not suggesting that prostitution is the *only* alternative to a financially abusive marriage, or that marriage is inherently financially abusive. However on a spectrum of suckitude I would suggest that paying for occasional hanky-panky as needed sucks a lot less than the asynchronous financial abuse. I think it's because the frequency and amount of expense is predictable, controllable, and consensual when paying for services rendered. A financially abusive family member creates expenses that are unpredictable, uncontrollable, and not consented to in advance... which are the factors that make it abusive.

[ChickenStash]

As a followup to my story, things have improved and the guy is contributing more fairly. My mom told him off shortly after the boat incident and kicked him out for a few months until he understood that she won't be paying to support his lifestyle. I doubt marriage will ever happen but I wouldn't be surprised if they stick together for some time, yet.

I've met the guy a few times and my impression from that and what I hear talking to my mom is that he's not overtly trying to be a leech on her, he just isn't very bright and is quite immature. Think of a 16yo making decisions but with the body of a 65yo. The same seems to be true of his kids to a large degree. Decision making of teens in the bodies of 40yo adults. Their antics are entertaining, at a safe distance.

[StachingforLife]

As a followup to my story, things have improved and the guy is contributing more fairly. My mom told him off shortly after the boat incident and kicked him out for a few months until he understood that she won't be paying to support his lifestyle. I doubt marriage will ever happen but I wouldn't be surprised if they stick together for some time, yet.

I've met the guy a few times and my impression from that and what I hear talking to my mom is that he's not overtly trying to be a leech on her, he just isn't very bright and is quite immature. Think of a 16yo making decisions but with the body of a 65yo. The same seems to be true of his kids to a large degree. Decision making of teens in the bodies of 40yo adults. Their antics are entertaining, at a safe distance.

I love your last line. I'm stealing it to use when I reference my family's money burning competitions. Thanks! And good on your mom for laying down the law!

[FIRE_guy]

We're spending a month staying with my SIL and her family (SIL + husband + 2 teens) --> it's a shocking peek into the underbelly of anti-mustacianism.

We've been trying to silently piece together some of the financial hemmoraging that's going on. It's difficult to get a clear picture, but just in our two weeks here we've been witness to a lot. My estimates:
- 800/mth in car payments
- 40/week golf green fees
- 40/week drinks + lunch on the golf course
- 200/week in random Target trips
- 200/week eating out
- fancy 3-day golf trip planned for next week (no idea... maybe 1500 bucks?)

I'm going to guess the misc spending like this adds up to somewhere around 2k or 3k per month. A legitimate 2 or 3 thousand dollar hole in their pockets. That's a half-million dollars per decade in driving between golf and target.

I used to roll my eyes. It was easy, because we were at a distance and not in the same town. Now that we're in such close quarters, they're seeing our lifestyle but don't seem to be connecting the dots. We get asked weekly to join them for golf, but they can't fathom why we decided to stop golfing several years ago (hint, we did the math!). We've just brushed it off, since it felt like if we were 100% honest that it would come across as condescending.

Now it's gotten to the point that we're doing them a disservice by not saying anything. How the hell do I bring this up in a non-condascending way?

[LWYRUP]

I don't think you do.  If you are invited, you can "I'm trying to retire early and so need to budget to hit my goals.". If they're curious, they'll ask for more details.

For all you know they are both perfectly happy to work until 65-70 and would rather play golf while young and healthy now.

[Cassie]

Fire guy, yes you shouldn’t say anything. Money is touchy and personal. You don’t want to ruin the relationship.

[ixtap]

Are they unhappy with their finances?

Saying something because they don't t have the same goals as you is beyond condescending.

[charis]

It's doing a disservice to them if you don't say something about how you are judging their decision to spend their own money? And they are hosting you at their home for a month? Your perspective is, well, interesting.

[Feivel2000]

$80/week for playing golf and socializing there sounds pretty reasonable to me. It's not mustachian, of course, but it's not crazy.
Unless they add all of this to credit cards, collecting debts, I would not advise to speak to them about it.

And maybe join them for a round of golf...

[Freedomin5]

I wouldn’t say anything. It’s not your money. The only situation where I might say something is if they are going into massive loads of debt to participate in these activities and are expecting you to pay for them to keep their lifestyle in their old age.

[AMandM]

I agree with others that you should not bring it up. It is almost impossible to bring it up without being (not just sounding) condescending, because you would in fact be telling them that you know better than they what they should be doing with their money.  But I also think you should not feel bad about not bringing it up, because I think you are mistaken to think that

Now it's gotten to the point that we're doing them a disservice by not saying anything.

First of all, I don't see any "gotten to the point"--the situation is what it is, it's not like some crisis point has been reached. All we know is that they spend a lot of money on things that are lower priorities to you than saving for retirement.

Second, your not saying anything is a disservice only under a lot of questionable assumptions: that this spending is actually destructive, rather than simply different from what you choose; that you saying something will magically change their beliefs and their behaviours; that this can happen without seriously harming family relationships.

Third, your calculation of "a half-million dollars per decade in driving between golf and target" is somewhat overblown.  That $2k-3k per month includes a lot more than just golf and target, so even in the most optimistic scenario it won't go to zero. In other words, you're looking at saving them a lot less than a half-million per decade.

However, if there's more going on than you've described--say, if they fret about not having enough money--then *when they bring it up* you could respond in a neutral way, one that doesn't directly criticize them or offer unsolicited advice. For example, "That's why we quit golfing: we decided the fun of it wasn't as valuable to us as not worrying about the end of the month" rather than "If you didn't dropped $80 every week at the club you'd be in much better shape."

[TheGrimSqueaker]

...However on a spectrum of suckitude I would suggest that paying for occasional hanky-panky as needed sucks a lot less than the asynchronous financial abuse....

I'd like to add my pleas to the multitude begging you to write a book, blog, advice column - anything! Your ability to turn a phrase is both beautiful and hilarious.

Thanks! I have a few books out on Amazon. One of them was a direct result of a discussion on this forum. Please PM me for details if you're interested, because I don't feel right using the forum to advertise.

[Just Joe]

Family wants to gift us something that costs several hundred dollars. A delayed house warming gift so to speak.

We already have a good one, its just older but perfectly functional. We appreciate the generosity but we can't get over the wasted money. Wasted resources used to make something we already have.

Give money to the grandkids or to charity. Or pay down the consumer debt that we suspect they still have late in life.

Shopping for the save of shopping? No....

[zolotiyeruki]

Family wants to gift us something that costs several hundred dollars. A delayed house warming gift so to speak.

We already have a good one, its just older but perfectly functional. We appreciate the generosity but we can't get over the wasted money. Wasted resources used to make something we already have.

Give money to the grandkids or to charity. Or pay down the consumer debt that we suspect they still have late in life.

Shopping for the save of shopping? No....

I can totally sympathize--at our first Christmas after getting married, my mother gave DW and me a rather expensive (to us) gift. We were naive (in college) and poor (in college), and already had one of the gift (much cheaper, and more to our taste).  I foolishly consulted with my dad about how to handle the situation.  I say 'foolish' because he then consulted with my mom, who was not pleased with our feelings.

Accept the gift, then sell it and use the funds for something more valuable for you.  Or try to preempt it--"wow, that's so generous!  We're actually quite satisfied with the X we already have, but if you really want to get us a gift, we would really appreciate Y."  Or, if you can get the same message to them more circumspectly, via a mutual friend or relative, that's even better.

[Just Joe]

Yes, DW tried to preempt them over the phone but apparently the old one (that they gave us many years ago) needs replacement though we really like it. Its smaller and easy to store.

We rarely use it b/c its a special occasion household good for us. Not even something that wears out in many years if kept clean and stored right. (Okay, its a grille).

Our old one is fine. Its clean, rust free. If it breaks, we have an even smaller portable grill for camping left over from my bachelor days. We just don't grill out that often. Once in a while.

Always enjoyable when we do but it needs to be moved outside, used, then clean it and store it away.

Relatives buy one every few years, use it a few times and it sits outside. Once it gets ugly, haul it to the dump. Repeat the purchase.

Or - we could just oven roast whatever we are cooking that day or use the electric countertop grill we bought many years ago.

Oh - and they insist coming to deliver the grille in the middle of this pandemic. They are aged with health issues. High risk to say the least.

TLDR: Sigh - we don't need a big fancy grill. Don't even want one (more things!). Worry (money), worry (sickness).

[Sibley]

Yes, DW tried to preempt them over the phone but apparently the old one (that they gave us many years ago) needs replacement though we really like it. Its smaller and easy to store.

We rarely use it b/c its a special occasion household good for us. Not even something that wears out in many years if kept clean and stored right. (Okay, its a grille).

Our old one is fine. Its clean, rust free. If it breaks, we have an even smaller portable grill for camping left over from my bachelor days. We just don't grill out that often. Once in a while.

Always enjoyable when we do but it needs to be moved outside, used, then clean it and store it away.

Relatives buy one every few years, use it a few times and it sits outside. Once it gets ugly, haul it to the dump. Repeat the purchase.

Or - we could just oven roast whatever we are cooking that day or use the electric countertop grill we bought many years ago.

Oh - and they insist coming to deliver the grille in the middle of this pandemic. They are aged with health issues. High risk to say the least.

TLDR: Sigh - we don't need a big fancy grill. Don't even want one (more things!). Worry (money), worry (sickness).

Honestly, I'm not that nice and would just tell them that I don't want it, and if they insist on bringing it over I will be disposing of it in whatever way I see fit. My family and friends are wise and know this, so there hasn't been a problem either way.

[zolotiyeruki]

Oh - and they insist coming to deliver the grille in the middle of this pandemic. They are aged with health issues. High risk to say the least.

TLDR: Sigh - we don't need a big fancy grill. Don't even want one (more things!). Worry (money), worry (sickness).

Well, as it so happens, our grill is rusting out (and over a decade old), so if you're looking for a place to get rid of it, and happen to be near NE Illinois.... :D

[Dave1442397]

Our grill rusted out, and we decided that we didn't need a monster grill in the backyard that just sat there most of the year, so we bought this portable Coleman grill that we hooked up to a full-size propane tank. It takes up minimal space in the garage when we don't need it, and should last a lot longer than anything we would keep outside.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B010ILB4KU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Just Joe]

Yeah I think we have the same grill. Coleman travel grill. If we can't talk them out of spending the money and coming here (pandemic, elderly people) then maybe the new grill will get stored until our eldest can take a grill with them someday when they move out.

Dislike seeming ungrateful. The unnecessary spending and visit during a pandemic sort of wound me up today.

[Siebrie]

They're not giving you a gift, they're giving you a chore! Storing, cleaning, worrying, maybe returning or selling on,..... You don't have to fulfill their dreams of their ideal house; maybe have an open conversation about it?

[ysette9]

I have gotten to the point where I agree on the “chore” assessment. Most gifts now are irritating to me because of the work they represent. Half the time I don’t want it in the house, so it is work to negotiate to get rid of it. The other half of the time it is more volume to fill up space to be cleaned and organized and picked up after when the rest of my family leaves stuff laying about. The more stuff you have, more more time and energy and stress you have in your life. A better gift for me would be to take some things out of my life permanently.

[Linea_Norway]

Yes, DW tried to preempt them over the phone but apparently the old one (that they gave us many years ago) needs replacement though we really like it. Its smaller and easy to store.

We rarely use it b/c its a special occasion household good for us. Not even something that wears out in many years if kept clean and stored right. (Okay, its a grille).

Our old one is fine. Its clean, rust free. If it breaks, we have an even smaller portable grill for camping left over from my bachelor days. We just don't grill out that often. Once in a while.

Always enjoyable when we do but it needs to be moved outside, used, then clean it and store it away.

Relatives buy one every few years, use it a few times and it sits outside. Once it gets ugly, haul it to the dump. Repeat the purchase.

Or - we could just oven roast whatever we are cooking that day or use the electric countertop grill we bought many years ago.

Oh - and they insist coming to deliver the grille in the middle of this pandemic. They are aged with health issues. High risk to say the least.

TLDR: Sigh - we don't need a big fancy grill. Don't even want one (more things!). Worry (money), worry (sickness).

Your family is also at risk. You could just ask them to stayvaway during the pandemic for your sake.

I think it is pretty rude to deliver a product to a person who already has one. If they still do, I would just give it away for free on GL or the like. Let them pick up outside your house, so you don't need to meet in person.

[iris lily]

I have gotten to the point where I agree on the “chore” assessment. Most gifts now are irritating to me because of the work they represent. Half the time I don’t want it in the house, so it is work to negotiate to get rid of it. The other half of the time it is more volume to fill up space to be cleaned and organized and picked up after when the rest of my family leaves stuff laying about. The more stuff you have, more more time and energy and stress you have in your life. A better gift for me would be to take some things out of my life permanently.

Oh yes.

Some years I ask for an “unpresent” for my birthday. Getting rid of something we already have.

Usually it’s something that DH refuses to get rid of but it’s hideously ugly and I just want it gone. So I will ask him for final approval to take it to the dumpster. He does comply sometimes in the spirit of birthday wish.

[iris lily]

All of our gas grills have been free, or nearly free, from neighbors who move. The last one we paid for a few bucks because our friend could use the money. But I’m kind of over a big gas grills it just seems to be such a chore to get DH to fire them up.

[ysette9]

I have gotten to the point where I agree on the “chore” assessment. Most gifts now are irritating to me because of the work they represent. Half the time I don’t want it in the house, so it is work to negotiate to get rid of it. The other half of the time it is more volume to fill up space to be cleaned and organized and picked up after when the rest of my family leaves stuff laying about. The more stuff you have, more more time and energy and stress you have in your life. A better gift for me would be to take some things out of my life permanently.

Oh yes.

Some years I ask for an “unpresent” for my birthday. Getting rid of something we already have.

Usually it’s something that DH refuses to get rid of but it’s hideously ugly and I just want it gone. So I will ask him for final approval to take it to the dumpster. He does comply sometimes in the spirit of birthday wish.

Oh my, that is brilliant. I’ll have to remember it.

[Just Joe]

The visit was nice. Its easy to see all the ways most of our relatives have just wished away the pandemic. They are tired of distancing so it is over - right? They listen to Trump more than someone like Fauci. Relatives walked into our house and immediately hugged each of us. -eye roll-

Guess we should have grown a backbone and gotten ugly about it - that is what it would take. Didn't want to go there. So good to see them but I worry far more about them than us. We're exposed to the general public at our jobs.

This sounds so harsh but it would serve our country well for Trump and Pence to become gravely ill with COVID just so their supporters could get a dose of reality.

Re: gifts. There were a number of gifts this weekend. All nice. Just wish relatives would have saved their money. Or donated it. Or gave it to one of the many grandchildren who squeak by.

On top of that - the coworker I spend the most time with b/c work reports their family spent the 4th of July weekend in a popular vacation spot. WFH is no longer an option for now for me. Meanwhile the COVID numbers go up and up.

[Kris]

The visit was nice. Its easy to see all the ways most of our relatives have just wished away the pandemic. They are tired of distancing so it is over - right? They listen to Trump more than someone like Fauci. Relatives walked into our house and immediately hugged each of us. -eye roll-

Guess we should have grown a backbone and gotten ugly about it - that is what it would take. Didn't want to go there. So good to see them but I worry far more about them than us. We're exposed to the general public at our jobs.

This sounds so harsh but it would serve our country well for Trump and Pence to become gravely ill with COVID just so their supporters could get a dose of reality.

Re: gifts. There were a number of gifts this weekend. All nice. Just wish relatives would have saved their money. Or donated it. Or gave it to one of the many grandchildren who squeak by.

On top of that - the coworker I spend the most time with b/c work reports their family spent the 4th of July weekend in a popular vacation spot. WFH is no longer an option for now for me. Meanwhile the COVID numbers go up and up.

If Trump and Pence both got Covid, the right would immediately start floating a conspiracy that Pelosi injected them with it. And the hoax conspiracy would only get stronger. :eye roll:

[Taran Wanderer]

If Trump and Pence both got Covid, the right would immediately start floating a conspiracy that Pelosi injected them with it. And the hoax conspiracy would only get stronger. :eye roll:

And then, if they recovered, they would probably say it was just a little flu while creating a witch hunt for the dangerous leftist who intentionally infected them.

[Just Joe]

Probably right Taran and Kris.

[Taran Wanderer]

Our house needs painting this summer, so our lack of travel (or anything really) has given me a great opportunity to get the job done. For about $1,000, I bought the paint, tape, pads, and rollers I need, along with a new extension ladder that I need for the high parts and has been on my want list for several years. I’m doing the work and building better deltoids.

DW’s sister and her family need to paint their house, too. It’s a similar size, but they are having it professionally painted. I don’t know their cost, but 10x ours is a good ballpark bet. I just can’t fathom spending that much money on a quick spray job when I can get a better quality result for a fraction of their cost.