Relatives who just don't get it

[UpNAtom]

That was my thought too.  Sadly, my brother has bought into the idea that if he can afford the payment he can afford whatever it is he's financing (does it surprise anyone that he works as a loan officer at a bank?).  I thought he was getting better a few years ago when he sold the car that had payments to keep this truck that's been paid off for years.

Drinking the kool-aid :)

Probably hard sitting there all day seeing everything everyone else is financing and not think "this is how the world works and there is nothing wrong here".  The alternative is working a job day-in-day-out and knowing that it is wrong.

[DadJokes]

That was my thought too.  Sadly, my brother has bought into the idea that if he can afford the payment he can afford whatever it is he's financing (does it surprise anyone that he works as a loan officer at a bank?).  I thought he was getting better a few years ago when he sold the car that had payments to keep this truck that's been paid off for years.

Drinking the kool-aid :)

Probably hard sitting there all day seeing everything everyone one else is financing and not think "this is how the world works and there is nothing wrong here".  The alternative is working a job day-in-day-out and knowing that it is wrong.

+1

I worked at a convenience store in college. I sold a lot of lottery tickets. No one ever brings back the losing tickets, but they always come back with the winners, so it almost looks like everyone is winning. Thankfully, I learned my lesson after only a few tickets.

[canadianrose]

Hey, new to the site, here. It's kinda the opposite of this thread, but I really want to brag on my older brother. I'm just starting to dig myself out, but I love that my brother is doing so well. 5 years ago, he was an alcoholic, divorcing from his wife, who was (and remains)addicted to pills due to a past injury. He had a string of vehicles that were driven into ditches, though thankfully he did no physical damage to anyone but himself, and not permanent. He was working at a job that was extremely physical, but he was good at it. He was passed up from promotions and apprenticeship opportunities because of his extracurricular activities, though. Then he met a lovely woman who called him on his shit. Then he found a new job that paid more than his crap job, that used his experience as a backyard mechanic and ability to translate customer to mechanic and back, which called on all of his brains, so he could not do well if he showed up hungover. Fast forward to today, they have two beautiful little girls, and they are doing very well in these times. SIL is a saver, and they are saving up for a wedding. His alcoholism is more in control than I have ever seen, and they have decent clean newish paid for vehicles.

Myself, except for 2010, I have been a financial shitshow. I could blame my 9 year relastionship with a guy who could not keep a job, but I bear some blame, too. (Easy to feel hard done by and feel the need for a treat. Also, we financed a new 2011 Ford Ranger) I hope to have positive net worth in a couple years.

We come from a family who have made a lot of questionable choices, and I am excited for my nieces to never know that kind of stress.

[markbike528CBX]

Hey, new to the site, here. It's kinda the opposite of this thread, but I really want to brag on my older brother. I'm just starting to dig myself out, but I love that my brother is doing so well. 5 years ago, he was an alcoholic, divorcing from his wife, who was (and remains)addicted to pills due to a past injury. He had a string of vehicles that were driven into ditches, though thankfully he did no physical damage to anyone but himself, and not permanent. He was working at a job that was extremely physical, but he was good at it. He was passed up from promotions and apprenticeship opportunities because of his extracurricular activities, though. Then he met a lovely woman who called him on his shit. Then he found a new job that paid more than his crap job, that used his experience as a backyard mechanic and ability to translate customer to mechanic and back, which called on all of his brains, so he could not do well if he showed up hungover. Fast forward to today, they have two beautiful little girls, and they are doing very well in these times. SIL is a saver, and they are saving up for a wedding. His alcoholism is more in control than I have ever seen, and they have decent clean newish paid for vehicles.

Myself, except for 2010, I have been a financial shitshow. I could blame my 9 year relastionship with a guy who could not keep a job, but I bear some blame, too. (Easy to feel hard done by and feel the need for a treat. Also, we financed a new 2011 Ford Ranger) I hope to have positive net worth in a couple years.

We come from a family who have made a lot of questionable choices, and I am excited for my nieces to never know that kind of stress.

@canadianrose nice first post.

Yep you can blame anyone else forever, but it looks like you are at least self-aware of YOUR issues. 
It is a long slog to start, but after that, you'll wonder what your previous issues were because they will pale compared to your current and future progress.

There are "races" to various Net Worth (NW) points on this forum.  Join in and realize, no matter what the situation , that you are not alone.
In fact, since you are here, you are better off than 90% of the people you see around you. 
Post and be Happy!

[Just Joe]

While I agree with you that a brand new one probably isn't the best way to  go in this situation, I don't think that a $5k Jeep is going to fit the bill.  A $5k Jeep is going to be at least 15 years old, two doors, and high mileage.  It's probably not something that's going to be comfortable or reliable for a roadtrip.  The sweet spot is probably going to be in the $18-20k range.  And even then wait six months for the repo sales to get started.

 The thing about Jeeps, and probably one reason they get such a bad rap, is that many people buy them without thinking about what they were used for in their previous life. For example, I mentioned earlier that my brother had been having some problems with his wife's.  They bought it used, from a Cadillac dealer, with a 2 inch lift and clear signs that trail gear like winches and tow rings had been installed at some point in time.  To me, that reads like this thing was a stump-jumper that was traded in for a "grown-up car."  It's likely this thing has been abused.  And that's great if you're into trail riding and have the skills to fix shit that goes wrong on the trail.  Not so much as a daily driver.

One POV is a buy as new as possible and send it to the mechanic as little as possible.

My POV is buy it cheap and put a little money into it to make it reliable with work I do on it in my own garage - and then not worry if something breaks or gets scraped up. I'm not likely to drive a dedicated off-roader long distances. There is that point where what makes it good off road makes it worse on the road. 

[Just Joe]

...

Depending on where you live, your local home improvement store may have a rental truck available. Menards has rental pickups available for $20 for the first 75 minutes - I could rent one 40 times for the cost of one month's truck payment! Also, U-Haul rents trucks in the $20-$30 range that will hold just about anything you need to haul (oooh, that's where the name comes from!).

I think my local Lowes will "rent" you a pick up for free but does not take reservations.  I have looked at the local big box stores delivery rates and I would call them significant but still far less than buying a truck.

If we needed a lot of something, plywood, lumber, etc., we could just have them deliver the entire batch of stuff to the job site for a nominal fee.  I think it was less than $100.   The rest of the time a roof rack, the hatchback, or a cheap utility trailer were just fine.   $1000 for the trailer (all-in cost) and an occasional $100 charge vs hundreds of dollars a month for insurance and truck payments and tags.   

I'll second the trailer solution. I've done it that way for 20+ years.

[Missy B]

Hey, new to the site, here. It's kinda the opposite of this thread, but I really want to brag on my older brother. I'm just starting to dig myself out, but I love that my brother is doing so well. 5 years ago, he was an alcoholic, divorcing from his wife, who was (and remains)addicted to pills due to a past injury. He had a string of vehicles that were driven into ditches, though thankfully he did no physical damage to anyone but himself, and not permanent. He was working at a job that was extremely physical, but he was good at it. He was passed up from promotions and apprenticeship opportunities because of his extracurricular activities, though. Then he met a lovely woman who called him on his shit. Then he found a new job that paid more than his crap job, that used his experience as a backyard mechanic and ability to translate customer to mechanic and back, which called on all of his brains, so he could not do well if he showed up hungover. Fast forward to today, they have two beautiful little girls, and they are doing very well in these times. SIL is a saver, and they are saving up for a wedding. His alcoholism is more in control than I have ever seen, and they have decent clean newish paid for vehicles.

Myself, except for 2010, I have been a financial shitshow. I could blame my 9 year relastionship with a guy who could not keep a job, but I bear some blame, too. (Easy to feel hard done by and feel the need for a treat. Also, we financed a new 2011 Ford Ranger) I hope to have positive net worth in a couple years.

We come from a family who have made a lot of questionable choices, and I am excited for my nieces to never know that kind of stress.

That you are so proud of your brother and cheering his family on makes me feel very optimistic for you. It's the opposite of the defensive person who complains that their relative 'was lucky' and they have bad luck themselves, and none of their financial problems are their fault, so they can't get out of their hole.

It's definitely challenging to grow up in a family where good, clear financial decision making wasn't modeled. I wish you all the best. There's lots of inspiration here, and I bet that if you stick around in a little while you'll be inspiring others yourself.

[Sugaree]

In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year. 

[Dicey]

In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year.

Should be fine,  as long as he has about a hundred grand to put down...

[Sugaree]

In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year.

Should be fine,  as long as he has about a hundred grand to put down...

I suspect that was what he was hinting at.  I think he's grossly miscalculated the current willingness and/or ability of the Bank of Mom and Dad to cut checks.

[Jouer]

In the continuing adventures of BIL, he has decided that he wants to buy a house.  A $300k house.  Or maybe something more expensive in Boston (Because they'll only need one car there, ya know?).  While making $50k/year.

My brother did that a few years ago. yadda yadda yadda.....the house is foreclosed and he's homeless.

[DadJokes]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

During our weekly phone call last night, I learned that he expects to be reduced to a 40 hour limit, which would effectively reduce his pay by half. He's already looking into getting a deferment on his truck loan.

The saga continues!

As previously mentioned, my father got a new motorcycle sometime around January/February. He had a motorcycle previously that hadn't run in years (2005 touring bike with ~100k miles). He decided to give the old bike to my step-sister's fiance (we'll just call him Jon). Jon was supposed to get the bike fixed, get a motorcycle license, get the bike registered in his name, and get the bike insured.

Instead, Jon got the bike fixed and was riding the bike without a license, uninsured, and with expired registration still in my father's name. Jon is a pilot, so you'd think that he has some common sense, but apparently that's not the case. While taking a curve too fast, he drifted out of his lane and hit a pickup.

Jon miraculously didn't die, though he has a handful of broken bones and a lot of road rash. However, now we have to wonder how this is all going to play out financially. The pickup will probably be written off as totaled, and I'm sure this could come back on my father, as the bike was still legally his property. Jon can probably afford to pay for the pickup with his income, but who knows what else is going to come of this?

I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

On the phone with my 55 y.o. father yesterday:

Him: I got a new truck! Well, new-to-me truck. It's a 2015 Sierra
Me: I'm glad you went down the used route. What was wrong with your old vehicle?
Him: It started having some mechanical issues, so I decided to get a new one rather than deal with the hassle.
Me: ...
Him: We just paid off my wife's car in November, so all we did was trade a payment for a payment.
Me: O...kay? How long is the loan?
Him: 72 months. Our only debts now are the truck, the mortgage, and a home improvement loan (rolled into mortgage).
Me: I guess that's not too bad.
Him: Oh, and the 401(k) loan I took out to pay off the credit cards last year, but that's almost paid off.

Follow up!

Him: Did I tell you I got a new motorcycle?
Me: No...Didn't you just get a truck a couple weeks ago?
My wife overhearing: Be nice
Him: Yeah
Me: And aren't you also planning to get an RV?
Him: We're not getting the RV anytime soon. That's more of a retirement plan.
Me: And when is that going to be?
Him: Well, one of my co-workers is still working at 69, and I think I'll have him beat.

That means my father, who is a truck driver for an oil company, plans to be working for another 14 years at a minimum. As such, I should in fact retire before my own father. He went on to say that he makes about $115k per year, which is more than our household income, and he lives in an extremely low cost of living area.

During our weekly phone call last night, I learned that he expects to be reduced to a 40 hour limit, which would effectively reduce his pay by half. He's already looking into getting a deferment on his truck loan.

The saga continues!

As previously mentioned, my father got a new motorcycle sometime around January/February. He had a motorcycle previously that hadn't run in years (2005 touring bike with ~100k miles). He decided to give the old bike to my step-sister's fiance (we'll just call him Jon). Jon was supposed to get the bike fixed, get a motorcycle license, get the bike registered in his name, and get the bike insured.

Instead, Jon got the bike fixed and was riding the bike without a license, uninsured, and with expired registration still in my father's name. Jon is a pilot, so you'd think that he has some common sense, but apparently that's not the case. While taking a curve too fast, he drifted out of his lane and hit a pickup.

Jon miraculously didn't die, though he has a handful of broken bones and a lot of road rash. However, now we have to wonder how this is all going to play out financially. The pickup will probably be written off as totaled, and I'm sure this could come back on my father, as the bike was still legally his property. Jon can probably afford to pay for the pickup with his income, but who knows what else is going to this?

I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.

Anyone can sue anybody for anything. In terms of liability, if your dad didn't take steps to notify the state and file a deed of gift or do a title transfer, he could definitely be on the hook. Sadly, if he doesn't have insurance on the vehicle himself, he may well end up with a judgement against him.

This is why I formally transferred my daughter's vehicle into her name only, getting myself off the title, when she chose to move out just after her 18th birthday. In the event she (or someone she lent the vehicle to) did something stupid with it later, I didn't want to be the one who was wiped out.

[AMandM]

I don't know why, but it just seems that people who make bad decisions with money have more bad things happen to them. This is just one of those things. It's certainly more Jon's fault than my father's, but my father has already put himself in a hole from previous mistakes.

I think people who make bad decisions about money tend also to make bad decisions in other areas of life (e.g. giving someone unreliable free rein over your motorcycle). And they have little cushion against the bad effects of those decisions.

[RainyDay]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING. 

[Nick_Miller]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They don't help you summon a Patronus??? -blinks-

[Morning Glory]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They don't help you summon a Patronus??? -blinks-

As I recall in the books they were used to start fires for cooking food.

[ixtap]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They don't help you summon a Patronus??? -blinks-

As I recall in the books they were used to start fires for cooking food.

Also, making other people vomit slugs.

[SwordGuy]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

[BabyShark]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

[RetiredAt63]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

Get rich, $10 at a time.
Get poor, $40 at a time.     /s

[Frankies Girl]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

Totally get it the sarcasm, but I'd have been really tempted to tell them you can actually buy a decent used stove for under $120.

https://hickory.craigslist.org/app/d/lincolnton-gas-stove/7137228243.html

https://hickory.craigslist.org/app/d/newton-whirlpool-stove/7136750819.html


Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).

[zolotiyeruki]

Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).

Electromechanical appliances for the win!  Our washer is now 15 years old.  We currently put 8+ washes through every week, and the only issues we've run into were worn agitator dogs ($5 and 15 minutes to replace, and it's a wear item) and a fill hose that got a small crack ($15ish and a bit longer to replace).  From my cold, dead hands....

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

[ixtap]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

Somebody missed the "/s" sarcasm marker...

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

I'd dispute that, but I'm more interested in the rest of your reasoning. If you have't got basic appliances, why would you think it's ok to buy expensive crap for your kids?? Just because it didn't cost the entire price of the stove (and I'm still disputing that), doesn't mean that it could not have gone towards the stove. If they keep spending because "it was only x and wouldn't have paid for a stove anyway", they will never afford a stove!

Somebody missed the "/s" sarcasm marker...

DAMMIT!

[ixtap]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

[Frankies Girl]

Some appliance repair peeps pick up the older models for free that folks discard due to not wanting to fix or buying a fancy new model, and then fix up and resell at a steep discount. The guy that repaired my washer told me they really don't make them like this model any more, and if I ever want to get rid of it, let him know because it was a workhorse (and told me his repair would last at least another 5-10 years, and told me what to do if the one other thing that could wear out since it could be fixed by me easily).

Electromechanical appliances for the win!  Our washer is now 15 years old.  We currently put 8+ washes through every week, and the only issues we've run into were worn agitator dogs ($5 and 15 minutes to replace, and it's a wear item) and a fill hose that got a small crack ($15ish and a bit longer to replace).  From my cold, dead hands....

Oh my yes on the bolded part. :D

The agitator dogs was the other thing, and yeah totally easy and cheap to DIY. This washer has been going for 18 years for me, and we got it from the husband's grandfather who used it at least 5 years before that. It's a giant top loader and I love it. I'll genuinely cry when I have to replace it... in about 20 years.

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

I feel so accepted! lol. But seriously, I have strong idiot tendencies......

[jinga nation]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

I feel so accepted! lol. But seriously, I have strong idiot tendencies......

you might have idiot tendencies, but you're still our mustachian having idiot tendencies... it's normal to have crazy tendencies. think about them as deviations from the norm or statistical outliers.

how's the re-opening going down there? Jacinda and Co. done a fantastic job?

[AnnaGrowsAMustache]

@AnnaGrowsAMustache , we still love you!

I feel so accepted! lol. But seriously, I have strong idiot tendencies......

you might have idiot tendencies, but you're still our mustachian having idiot tendencies... it's normal to have crazy tendencies. think about them as deviations from the norm or statistical outliers.

how's the re-opening going down there? Jacinda and Co. done a fantastic job?

Yeah, we're at level one now, which is totally back to normal except the borders are closed. It's very strange seeing what's still going on overseas and having just nothing here. Still have the ubiquitous hand sanitiser and perspex screens, but no social distancing required now.

[RainyDay]

I have a good one!

My brother and sister-in-law collectively earn north of $200k per year, yet are perpetually "broke."  Currently they have a big hole in their kitchen where the stove used to be, because they can't afford a new stove. 

What did my SIL recently buy?  Not one, but THREE Harry Potter wands for $40 each.  One for her and one for each daughter.  I love Harry Potter as much as the next person, but these are literally just pieces of sticks, painted. They do NOTHING.

They probably didn't use the stove much anyway.   

It's only $120. You can't buy a stove for $120 anyways so it's not like they would have used that money for a stove. /s

Get rich, $10 at a time.
Get poor, $40 at a time.     /s

Indeed. 

On the plus side, they now use that gaping hole where the stove used to be as a storage area.  Win?

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh. 

[sherr]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

For a month's worth of cable they could have a reasonably good stove. I think it's a question of priorities and an overall decision to continue with what they're doing.

[ixtap]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

For a month's worth of cable they could have a reasonably good stove. I think it's a question of priorities and an overall decision to continue with what they're doing.

I think no one wants to cook.

[former player]

They spend $250/month for all the cable channels "because they watch a lot of TV."  I live 20 min from them and spend $65/month, yet I don't feel deprived.  Granted, I am not raising two bored teenagers, so perhaps I'm being overly harsh.

Definitely not. In a world where $40/month gives you Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Disney+, I am completely baffled by people who continue to pay hundreds of dollars a month for cable. If they're rich and have the money to throw away then I guess "you do you", but that doesn't sound like the case here.

For a month's worth of cable they could have a reasonably good stove. I think it's a question of priorities and an overall decision to continue with what they're doing.

I think no one wants to cook.

If they have one of those big spaces for a range cooker and the idea that only a brand name range cooker is suitable for their kitchen then very likely they don't have the cash for it.

[ChickenStash]

I guess I've got one. It involves a relative but they weren't the primary one getting the raised eyebrow.

To set the stage, my mom hit some hard times a few years ago due to trying to switch careers and some minor health issues popped up in the middle that delayed some of the training/certifications, blah blah. The end result is that she was out of work, burned through her savings and I chipped in and covered the majority of her living expenses for about a year while she got everything squared away. For my part, it wasn't a big deal (my mom isn't great with money but lives cheaply) and I didn't want to see her living under a bridge or, worse yet, with me. :)

Prior to and during all this she was seeing some guy, he moved in, and they were throwing around terms like fiance and engaged but he contributed nearly nothing to the household while I was covering the majority of the bills. Not a penny towards rent, rarely brought groceries, and when they would go on "road trips" to a casino (!) he would take her car because it was cheaper to drive than his pickup truck (that she bought for him before the job loss but that's a different story...sigh). How nice.

Anyway, at some point he decided that they should get a small fishing boat but he didn't have enough money for anything that would likely float so he gets a great idea. He asks my mom to ask me for a few grand because "<ChickenStash> has a lot and enjoys paying your way".  Say what?!? Thankfully, my mom reamed him a new one - I guess he somehow thought I was born with a decent job and a little in savings rather than having to spend years studying and working up the ladder for it like everyone else.  He eventually started to act more responsibly after a "come to Jesus" argument, but I can say that guy lost most of the respect I had for him.

[RetiredAt63]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

You 2 make me glad I'm still single all these years after the divorce. 

[iluvzbeach]

What you all describe sounds exactly like my dad with each of his handful of wives. Ruins them financially and finds the next one willing to fund his lifestyle...until she isn’t. Repeat.

[ysette9]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

[marty998]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

Writing this while I choke on my breakfast but she wouldn’t have to pay for his viagra in that case either!

[ysette9]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

Writing this while I choke on my breakfast but she wouldn’t have to pay for his viagra in that case either!

Even worse! She is paying to get laid and isn’t even getting functional equipment? There are better solutions out there.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I feel for you Chickenstash! My mom married her leech and has been funding his champagne taste while waiting on him hand and foot ever since. My mom also had to squash his ideas for my money after I told her how he had reasoned that he didn't need savings because if anything ever came up, either his friends or I would surely lend him $10k. In theory, my mom "lends" him money, which he is expected to repay, but the debt is piling up faster than he can pay it off. His logic is that he's 75 and money that isn't spent (on him) is wasted. The things that our moms do for companionship!

Maybe your mother would be better off with a nice vibrator.

Writing this while I choke on my breakfast but she wouldn’t have to pay for his viagra in that case either!

Even worse! She is paying to get laid and isn’t even getting functional equipment? There are better solutions out there.

On a per-hour basis a gigolo would be a better deal. Same goes for men who get financially wrecked by their wives.

I'm not suggesting that prostitution is the *only* alternative to a financially abusive marriage, or that marriage is inherently financially abusive. However on a spectrum of suckitude I would suggest that paying for occasional hanky-panky as needed sucks a lot less than the asynchronous financial abuse. I think it's because the frequency and amount of expense is predictable, controllable, and consensual when paying for services rendered. A financially abusive family member creates expenses that are unpredictable, uncontrollable, and not consented to in advance... which are the factors that make it abusive.

[ChickenStash]

As a followup to my story, things have improved and the guy is contributing more fairly. My mom told him off shortly after the boat incident and kicked him out for a few months until he understood that she won't be paying to support his lifestyle. I doubt marriage will ever happen but I wouldn't be surprised if they stick together for some time, yet.

I've met the guy a few times and my impression from that and what I hear talking to my mom is that he's not overtly trying to be a leech on her, he just isn't very bright and is quite immature. Think of a 16yo making decisions but with the body of a 65yo. The same seems to be true of his kids to a large degree. Decision making of teens in the bodies of 40yo adults. Their antics are entertaining, at a safe distance.

[StachingforLife]

As a followup to my story, things have improved and the guy is contributing more fairly. My mom told him off shortly after the boat incident and kicked him out for a few months until he understood that she won't be paying to support his lifestyle. I doubt marriage will ever happen but I wouldn't be surprised if they stick together for some time, yet.

I've met the guy a few times and my impression from that and what I hear talking to my mom is that he's not overtly trying to be a leech on her, he just isn't very bright and is quite immature. Think of a 16yo making decisions but with the body of a 65yo. The same seems to be true of his kids to a large degree. Decision making of teens in the bodies of 40yo adults. Their antics are entertaining, at a safe distance.

I love your last line. I'm stealing it to use when I reference my family's money burning competitions. Thanks! And good on your mom for laying down the law!

[FIRE_guy]

We're spending a month staying with my SIL and her family (SIL + husband + 2 teens) --> it's a shocking peek into the underbelly of anti-mustacianism.

We've been trying to silently piece together some of the financial hemmoraging that's going on. It's difficult to get a clear picture, but just in our two weeks here we've been witness to a lot. My estimates:
- 800/mth in car payments
- 40/week golf green fees
- 40/week drinks + lunch on the golf course
- 200/week in random Target trips
- 200/week eating out
- fancy 3-day golf trip planned for next week (no idea... maybe 1500 bucks?)

I'm going to guess the misc spending like this adds up to somewhere around 2k or 3k per month. A legitimate 2 or 3 thousand dollar hole in their pockets. That's a half-million dollars per decade in driving between golf and target.

I used to roll my eyes. It was easy, because we were at a distance and not in the same town. Now that we're in such close quarters, they're seeing our lifestyle but don't seem to be connecting the dots. We get asked weekly to join them for golf, but they can't fathom why we decided to stop golfing several years ago (hint, we did the math!). We've just brushed it off, since it felt like if we were 100% honest that it would come across as condescending.

Now it's gotten to the point that we're doing them a disservice by not saying anything. How the hell do I bring this up in a non-condascending way?

[LWYRUP]

I don't think you do.  If you are invited, you can "I'm trying to retire early and so need to budget to hit my goals.". If they're curious, they'll ask for more details.

For all you know they are both perfectly happy to work until 65-70 and would rather play golf while young and healthy now.

[Cassie]

Fire guy, yes you shouldn’t say anything. Money is touchy and personal. You don’t want to ruin the relationship.

[ixtap]

Are they unhappy with their finances?

Saying something because they don't t have the same goals as you is beyond condescending.

[charis]

It's doing a disservice to them if you don't say something about how you are judging their decision to spend their own money? And they are hosting you at their home for a month? Your perspective is, well, interesting.