Author Topic: Relatives who just don't get it  (Read 2240072 times)

Jouer

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 419
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5650 on: January 13, 2020, 07:46:26 AM »
Massive job loss in Alberta, which has been tricking down to many businesses. Better lease a luxury car.

Dear lord.

Step37

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 452
  • Age: 46
  • Location: AB, Canada
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5651 on: January 13, 2020, 09:36:53 AM »
Massive job loss in Alberta, which has been tricking down to many businesses. Better lease a luxury car.

Dear lord.

Theyíre actually in SoCal, but a poor decision regardless!

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2578
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5652 on: January 13, 2020, 05:41:17 PM »
I have a relative who has always been a very high earner (low-mid six figure salary), but who also has always told tales of whoa about money to anyone who will listen. Said relative has a child who plays an extremely expensive national travel sport . . . and I am also sometimes at the same events since my child also plays.

I don't always go, though, due to financial goals and and also a desire for my child to gain independence. You see, the teams travel without parents, and this is paid for up front when your kid makes a team. But, parents can pay for their own travel separately if they would like to watch. This relative ALWAYS travels to these events, which often require flights and multi-night hotel stays at places like Hiltons and Marriotts. I am absolutely certain he has not missed a single event in the past 5 years. For some of this time he has had a high income, and for other times he has been unemployed.

Anyway, at one of the events, a player mom from his daughter's team approached me. She told me she had been sitting with him watching the event, and that he had told her he was in serious financial trouble. At that point, he had been unemployed for some time (was actually unemployed prior to team tryouts and this was near the end of the season), but his spending had not slowed down one iota. He told her he was close to bankruptcy. She told me his tale of whoa and said she was taking up a collection from all of the parents on his daughters team to help him, and she wanted to know if I also wanted to contribute since I am related. Some of the parents are very well off, so I'm sure she had a good amount of money already at that point. I told her that is kind of her, but I declined to contribute.

She seemed shocked . . . lol, but it wore off I bet! On the last day of the event I saw him an asked how things were going. He told me with great delight that the other parents had given him a cash gift the night before, so he went out to celebrate at Joe's Crab Shack. He got a boil pot, whatever that is. Nothing says "OMG thank you for saving me from bankruptcy!" like buying yourself a $50 crab dinner.

(Just for the record, when I do go to these things, I usually grocery shop and eat in my room at these events. I will sometimes attend one "team meal" to socialize with other parents, but that's it.)

RWD

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3901
  • Location: Mississippi
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5653 on: January 13, 2020, 06:19:43 PM »
tales of whoa

The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4783
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5654 on: January 13, 2020, 06:22:29 PM »
tales of whoa

The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!


Ha... I wasnít going to say anything...

Zamboni

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2578
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5655 on: January 13, 2020, 07:59:29 PM »
Hahaha, yes, worth it just to see that!

Edited to add that I am completely homonym challenged. Somehow I can keep their, there, and they're straight, but I will accidentally type the wrong form of one/won. Meh.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 08:01:54 PM by Zamboni »

PMG

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1459
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5656 on: January 13, 2020, 08:44:09 PM »
I think there is some whoa in that story as well as woe.

Monerexia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 109
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5657 on: January 13, 2020, 10:02:20 PM »
And now, another tale of whoa: Spoke with my sister today about how my brother, who lives with my mother in his mid forties, has again charged unauthorized charges on her credit card. My sister is still in "help him" mode, even though this person has ripped all of us off over the decades, and is stunningly lazy, corrupt and abusive. Almost impressive actually. She said something like the problem is "he needs to learn to live within his means." First off, he has no means as he's chronically unemployed and works fewer hours in a year than I do in a week. Secondarily he has no need to get any means as he has a herd of enablers around him to "help help help." So embarrassed to be related to this clown haha

scrunchythief

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5658 on: January 14, 2020, 08:25:07 AM »
And now, another tale of whoa: Spoke with my sister today about how my brother, who lives with my mother in his mid forties, has again charged unauthorized charges on her credit card. My sister is still in "help him" mode, even though this person has ripped all of us off over the decades, and is stunningly lazy, corrupt and abusive. Almost impressive actually. She said something like the problem is "he needs to learn to live within his means." First off, he has no means as he's chronically unemployed and works fewer hours in a year than I do in a week. Secondarily he has no need to get any means as he has a herd of enablers around him to "help help help." So embarrassed to be related to this clown haha

Goodness, this is what I'm so scared my brother's going to end up like.  They sound so similar, except my brother is in his mid twenties.  And it's pretty much just my mom enabling.  Which makes me worry about her retirement, especially since she pays a car loan on a car for him and is in almost 10k of credit card debt. 

If you don't mind my asking, do you still have a relationship with him?  If so, do you have any advice on how to navigate that?  If not, do you have any advice on how to maintain your relationship with your mom while he lives with her?  Thanks.

economista

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5659 on: January 14, 2020, 10:37:04 AM »
My sister is a giant train wreck, but she is only 24 so she will hopefully grow out of it at some point. I just looked at facebook and apparently her dog is sick. She said the dog has has bloody stool for the past few days and now it is basically all blood. She made a post about how vets are too expensive and how  unfair it is that they won't work with her. Digging into the post and her comments under it, the vet said he is pretty sure what the issue is but it will cost $200 for the visit, blood work, and meds. My sister says she doesn't have $200 and they won't work with her on payments. She said they only offer care credit and she was denied. She set up a facebook fundraiser but then saw that it said it would take up to 7 days for her to receive the money so she closed it, and made a post listing her paypal account and asking people to please donate directly to it to help save her dog. Someone commented and told her she should go to the local payday loan place, but she said she can't because she took out a loan from them a few months ago and she is still paying on it so they won't give her another one. It is utterly crazy to me that she would choose to own a dog when she can't afford to take care of it! She is barely able to feed herself and she doesn't even have a penny in savings.

MissNancyPryor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5660 on: January 14, 2020, 11:36:59 AM »
Ugh, so sad for that dog.  Just the other day I made an appt for my cat and stumbled across a similarly-named vet clinic in another state that had a FB page.  Some dum-dum posted a scathing review of the place because they read somewhere else that the clinic had denied free service to someone who wanted a C-section for their dog.  Then other people had piled on (keep in mind none of the people complaining were directly involved but rather saw some sob story elsewhere and they decided to pollute the clinic's FB page.)

People tried to defend the clinic saying that there is no reason it is their fault that 1) the dog was allowed to become pregnant in a household that had zero resources, and 2) The clinic has no obligation to give services away for free just because someone said they needed it. 

This is not the same as a child showing up at the emergency room where the unpaid costs of service are managed entirely differently and there is an unmistakeable moral obligation.  It is much more like someone showing up to a mechanic demanding their car be fixed for free because they need it because (sob story reasons), only with the heartbreak that there is an innocent animal suffering the consequences.  Both providers may occasionally do some pro bono work as they choose but there is no obligation to do so.   

As predicted the dum-dum just doubled down and declared that everyone holding a different opinion was pure devil's spawn and that the person had a right to do with their dog what they wanted.  Gross.     

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6156
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • The Best Is Yet To Come
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5661 on: January 14, 2020, 11:49:17 AM »
These are the people driving the high suicide rate among veterinarians

Hula Hoop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1356
  • Location: Italy
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5662 on: January 14, 2020, 12:21:23 PM »
These are the people driving the high suicide rate among veterinarians

That's really sad.  I didn't know that they had a high suicide rate.

I have a cousin like the siblings you describe above. Luckily no pets though. Why do parents (it seems more often to be mothers) do this to their children?  Apparently my cousin has been spoiled more or less since birth.  Other family members told me stories of him waking up in the middle of the night when he was around 5 insisting that his mother cook his favorite foods for him - and she actually did it.  And it was all downhill from there.

SunnyDays

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5663 on: January 14, 2020, 12:57:23 PM »
@economista , can you find it in your heart to pay the dog's vet bill?  It shouldn't have to suffer because of it's owner.  Poor dog must be in pain.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7269
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5664 on: January 14, 2020, 01:09:15 PM »
I think there is some whoa in that story as well as woe.
Definitely!

mtn

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5665 on: January 14, 2020, 01:10:32 PM »
These are the people driving the high suicide rate among veterinarians

That's really sad.  I didn't know that they had a high suicide rate.




We just lost one of our favorite vets to suicide at the practice we go to.

Aside from issues like this, they have nearly the same job, schooling, and cost of medical doctors without the same pay (albeit probably with less malpractice insurance), and their patients cannot talk to them and are always frightened even when it is a normal checkup. Their patients are almost sure to die on them at some point while in their care (assuming both pet and vet stay at the same practice for most of their life/career), and they have to console the pet owners as well... And for a lot of them, all while trying to run a business.

Oh, and have you ever heard a doctor complain about WebMD? Well, same thing happens with pets, only there is more of it. A vet (friend of ours) was telling me that a patients owner (customer) was instructing her on the correct way to spay her cat. The vet handed her a scalpel and told her she was welcome to try it if she thought her internet research was better than her BS, MS, DVM, and PhD from a respected university.

Not to mention that rural vets are having a really hard time finding people to take the jobs - most vets coming out of school are female suburbanites who want to work on cats and dogs in the suburbs. Getting them to come out to Bismark, ND where they can't pay them much and will have to go stand in a muddy field at 11:30PM because a calf is breeched is a tough proposition, so the vets that ARE there are overworked.

MissNancyPryor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5666 on: January 14, 2020, 01:10:50 PM »
These are the people driving the high suicide rate among veterinarians

That's really sad.  I didn't know that they had a high suicide rate.

I have a cousin like the siblings you describe above. Luckily no pets though. Why do parents (it seems more often to be mothers) do this to their children?  Apparently my cousin has been spoiled more or less since birth.  Other family members told me stories of him waking up in the middle of the night when he was around 5 insisting that his mother cook his favorite foods for him - and she actually did it.  And it was all downhill from there.

Those Kraft cheese commercials were the kid won't eat dinner unless it is mac n cheese or some other Kraft cheese thing make me unreasonably angry.  The little shit won't eat what is offered for dinner?  See you in the morning, Junior. 

My mom always said that the marker for parental indulgence and subsequent consequences for most humans is determined on the drive home from the hospital.  Kids whose parents could not bear the sound of that new infant crying in the car seat and stopped to remove them and hold them in their lap on the way home were likely to have a lot of discipline problems with those kids their whole lives.  Kids who had to cry their way through the ride but were immeasurably safer by being left in the car seat were going to be just fine.   

I am sure there are exceptions but it sounds about right to me.   

economista

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 644
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Colorado
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5667 on: January 14, 2020, 01:15:16 PM »
@economista , can you find it in your heart to pay the dog's vet bill?  It shouldn't have to suffer because of it's owner.  Poor dog must be in pain.

It's a difficult situation. Yes, I could pay it for her. My husband and I have discussed it and we both agreed years ago that her and my mom would never receive anymore handouts from me (us). If she is always bailed out she is never going to learn. She is also soliciting donations from her friends on facebook and since she didn't do it in a transparent manner, I can't see how much has already been donated. Honestly, if she stopped smoking cigarettes and pot she would have more than enough money to pay for the dog.

That all being said, this afternoon I plan to call my grandparents and see if she has gotten the money yet from them. They are pushovers and always end up giving her the money when she gives them a sob story. If she hasn't I will bring it up with my husband again. I'm not there to see it followed through on, but if I did give her the money I would tell her she needs to find a new family for the dog since she has demonstrated that she isn't responsible enough to own one.

BlueHouse

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3327
  • Location: WDC
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5668 on: January 14, 2020, 01:29:58 PM »
Obviously, getting the journalism degree on student loans would have been better than an engineering one under the GI Bill, but hey, you live and learn, ama-right

I'm a fan of the non-traditional path. My kids are in a high school where they learn a trade half the day. I'm talking to the oldest about doing a year of community service/working before going to college. She's open to it.

But it's tough because some of her friends give off this vibe like they're better [off] than she is because they're going away to university. Where we live, it's like everyone has to go to college at 18. It's really not the right path for everyone, at least not at 18.

Yep - our eldest did a similar path as your daughter with HS vocational classes and friends here gave eldest the same vibe as your daughter got.

Fortunately eldest was wise enough to recognize that college money at that point in time would be waste as the eldest isn't ready for college. Is signed up for a state vocational school now. The school has a waiting list. We can afford to send eldest to a nearby state university later if that becomes a goal for eldest.

Live and learn: absolutely. Very happy with life's outcome but I definitely made some inefficient choices along the way aka mistakes. Should have far more money saved up and closer to retirement. We will still retire at ~60 with a comfortable situation.

My son graduated from a "prestigious" high school where everyone was expected to attend college.  The graduation program listed the kids' college choices.  One was listed as "gap year"  I asked my son about that and he replied "X isn't going to college, his grandparents own a large B&B.  He is going to work there for a couple of years and then the grandparents will retire and he will take over"   The school just couldn't write "no college"

This was the attitude in the time and place where I went to HS.  My family still has this attitude.  I remember when my brother told my mom he wasn't going to college.  My mom threw a bowl of milk at him (just the milk, not the bowl) and yelled "Fine, greasemonkey!"  I had never seen my mom react in anger before or since.  ever. 

My brother eventually went to college - we all did -- and graduated.  But it was torture for some of us.  At the time a college degree basically guaranteed your career success for people who looked like us (white) and who came from "a good family", so I'm glad i did it.  But if the choice were today, I can think of a million other things I could do to support myself. 

AMandM

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5669 on: January 14, 2020, 02:47:18 PM »
My sister says she doesn't have $200 and they won't work with her on payments. She said they only offer care credit and she was denied. [...] Someone commented and told her she should go to the local payday loan place, but she said she can't because she took out a loan from them a few months ago and she is still paying on it so they won't give her another one.

Sounds like the vet is smart for not "working with her."

Monerexia

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 109
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5670 on: January 14, 2020, 02:52:22 PM »
And now, another tale of whoa: Spoke with my sister today about how my brother, who lives with my mother in his mid forties, has again charged unauthorized charges on her credit card. My sister is still in "help him" mode, even though this person has ripped all of us off over the decades, and is stunningly lazy, corrupt and abusive. Almost impressive actually. She said something like the problem is "he needs to learn to live within his means." First off, he has no means as he's chronically unemployed and works fewer hours in a year than I do in a week. Secondarily he has no need to get any means as he has a herd of enablers around him to "help help help." So embarrassed to be related to this clown haha

Goodness, this is what I'm so scared my brother's going to end up like.  They sound so similar, except my brother is in his mid twenties.  And it's pretty much just my mom enabling.  Which makes me worry about her retirement, especially since she pays a car loan on a car for him and is in almost 10k of credit card debt. 

If you don't mind my asking, do you still have a relationship with him?  If so, do you have any advice on how to navigate that?  If not, do you have any advice on how to maintain your relationship with your mom while he lives with her?  Thanks.

Well, it's difficult because one can't properly have a relationship with a corrupt person. My family is so naive and think the best of people that they just believe his lies and excuses. This is his currency and they're still accepting it. The problem with maintaining my relationship with my mother is that he not only lives with her he insisted on living in the front room as his bedroom, which is now hoarderville as he smokes pot and takes benzos daily while watching TV. One has to go past him to get to my mother's room way in the back. As he is a true professional victim, incredibly abusive as well as being armed, it's best to stay away. We did try for a long time. We all strongly insisted he not be permitted to live in the front room but my mother, as always, protected him from the big bad siblings so now they pretty much live in hoarderville and I refuse to visit. We all make our choices.

As far as advice goes--this got away from us because of women in my family not being able to hold boundaries. Lazy abusive men find these kind of women and use them--even if not maliciously, just in a whiny pussified way haha. It's difficult to ask a mother to prosecute and evict, but that's always on my wish list and I'm not one to care about somebody's housing more than they do. Save yourself, kid. And that's how people learn, by facing challenges and getting a harsh reality check.

SunnyDays

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5671 on: January 14, 2020, 03:15:41 PM »
@economista , can you find it in your heart to pay the dog's vet bill?  It shouldn't have to suffer because of it's owner.  Poor dog must be in pain.

It's a difficult situation. Yes, I could pay it for her. My husband and I have discussed it and we both agreed years ago that her and my mom would never receive anymore handouts from me (us). If she is always bailed out she is never going to learn. She is also soliciting donations from her friends on facebook and since she didn't do it in a transparent manner, I can't see how much has already been donated. Honestly, if she stopped smoking cigarettes and pot she would have more than enough money to pay for the dog.

That all being said, this afternoon I plan to call my grandparents and see if she has gotten the money yet from them. They are pushovers and always end up giving her the money when she gives them a sob story. If she hasn't I will bring it up with my husband again. I'm not there to see it followed through on, but if I did give her the money I would tell her she needs to find a new family for the dog since she has demonstrated that she isn't responsible enough to own one.

If it comes down to it, you could notify the SPCA that an ill dog is not being treated and they will give your sister some amount of time to get it to a vet (maybe immediately if they feel itís justified or they can seize the dog themselves. Itís a drastic step but might be a good wake up call.

OtherJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2155
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5672 on: January 14, 2020, 03:21:45 PM »
These are the people driving the high suicide rate among veterinarians

That's really sad.  I didn't know that they had a high suicide rate.




We just lost one of our favorite vets to suicide at the practice we go to.

Aside from issues like this, they have nearly the same job, schooling, and cost of medical doctors without the same pay (albeit probably with less malpractice insurance), and their patients cannot talk to them and are always frightened even when it is a normal checkup. Their patients are almost sure to die on them at some point while in their care (assuming both pet and vet stay at the same practice for most of their life/career), and they have to console the pet owners as well... And for a lot of them, all while trying to run a business.

Oh, and have you ever heard a doctor complain about WebMD? Well, same thing happens with pets, only there is more of it. A vet (friend of ours) was telling me that a patients owner (customer) was instructing her on the correct way to spay her cat. The vet handed her a scalpel and told her she was welcome to try it if she thought her internet research was better than her BS, MS, DVM, and PhD from a respected university.

Not to mention that rural vets are having a really hard time finding people to take the jobs - most vets coming out of school are female suburbanites who want to work on cats and dogs in the suburbs. Getting them to come out to Bismark, ND where they can't pay them much and will have to go stand in a muddy field at 11:30PM because a calf is breeched is a tough proposition, so the vets that ARE there are overworked.

So sad. Our vets are amazing. We need to a better job of telling them so.

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6101
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5673 on: January 14, 2020, 03:33:42 PM »
Locally our SPCA doesnít take animals from owners. The local shelter does.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5674 on: January 15, 2020, 08:18:34 AM »
tales of whoa

The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!


Some of these tales detail the lack of people's whoa on spending... Its been an education.

alienbogey

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 57
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5675 on: January 15, 2020, 11:50:31 AM »
Relatives:  Well into 5 digits of debt, at current income/spending levels will take approximately forever to pay off, husband recently couldn't get security clearance for significantly better job due to debt status.  Upon hearing our made-gently-as-possible suggestion that perhaps they don't need to go through case after case of carbonated, lightly flavored canned water, and that wife maybe doesn't actually NEED to buy enough ugly Christmas sweaters that she has a different one for each day of December (her stated goal), this was the reply:

"But we want to enjoy life."

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6673
  • Location: BC
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5676 on: January 15, 2020, 11:55:57 AM »
tales of whoa

The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!

But it is amazingly better and more accurate to use "Whoa!"   As in "Stop your foolishness!"
I liked it a lot.

zolotiyeruki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3378
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5677 on: January 15, 2020, 12:38:28 PM »
tales of whoa
The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!
But it is amazingly better and more accurate to use "Whoa!"   As in "Stop your foolishness!"
I liked it a lot.
Isn't it "woah" if you mean "stop"?

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1323
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5678 on: January 15, 2020, 12:51:55 PM »
I think there is some whoa in that story as well as woe.

This should definitely be added to the MMM lexicon.

honeybbq

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1323
  • Location: Seattle
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5679 on: January 15, 2020, 12:55:33 PM »
Relatives:  Well into 5 digits of debt, at current income/spending levels will take approximately forever to pay off, husband recently couldn't get security clearance for significantly better job due to debt status.  Upon hearing our made-gently-as-possible suggestion that perhaps they don't need to go through case after case of carbonated, lightly flavored canned water, and that wife maybe doesn't actually NEED to buy enough ugly Christmas sweaters that she has a different one for each day of December (her stated goal), this was the reply:

"But we want to enjoy life."

Sounds like they have way bigger problems than carbonated water.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6301
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5680 on: January 15, 2020, 12:56:37 PM »
tales of whoa
The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!
But it is amazingly better and more accurate to use "Whoa!"   As in "Stop your foolishness!"
I liked it a lot.
Isn't it "woah" if you mean "stop"?

It is in the southern USA.   Then again, the word "dog" has two syllables here, too, so I wouldn't use us for pronunciation guidance... ;)

Kris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4783
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5681 on: January 15, 2020, 12:56:48 PM »
tales of whoa
The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!
But it is amazingly better and more accurate to use "Whoa!"   As in "Stop your foolishness!"
I liked it a lot.
Isn't it "woah" if you mean "stop"?

No. Itís whoa.

Though recently, enough people are spelling it incorrectly (woah) that it is now considered by some to be an alternate spelling.

https://writingexplained.org/whoa-or-woah-difference#Summary

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-were-watching-woah-whoa-slang-definition

dandarc

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3673
  • Age: 37
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5682 on: January 15, 2020, 01:01:00 PM »
tales of whoa
The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!
But it is amazingly better and more accurate to use "Whoa!"   As in "Stop your foolishness!"
I liked it a lot.
Isn't it "woah" if you mean "stop"?
Merriam-Webster, as of June 19, 2019 anyway is officially calling "woah" a misspelling, but it apparently is being used enough now that they are considering putting it in the dictionary.

Davnasty

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2268
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5683 on: January 15, 2020, 01:05:54 PM »
tales of whoa
The phrase is "tales of woe". Silly English language and its homonyms!
But it is amazingly better and more accurate to use "Whoa!"   As in "Stop your foolishness!"
I liked it a lot.
Isn't it "woah" if you mean "stop"?

The original meaning of whoa was stop/slow down only but later became an exclamation of surprise.

I can see how the word made that transition and in fact you might say we still use it with it's original meaning intact. As in "Whoa, everyone stop what you're doing because something surprising just happened" or "Whoa, stop talking so I can process that ridiculous thing you just said"

zolotiyeruki

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3378
  • Location: State: Denial
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5684 on: January 15, 2020, 02:19:10 PM »
Isn't it "woah" if you mean "stop"?
No. Itís whoa.

Though recently, enough people are spelling it incorrectly (woah) that it is now considered by some to be an alternate spelling.

https://writingexplained.org/whoa-or-woah-difference#Summary

https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/words-were-watching-woah-whoa-slang-definition
Interesting!  Thanks for the elucidation!

Dave1442397

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Location: NJ
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5685 on: January 15, 2020, 04:29:42 PM »

My mom always said that the marker for parental indulgence and subsequent consequences for most humans is determined on the drive home from the hospital.  Kids whose parents could not bear the sound of that new infant crying in the car seat and stopped to remove them and hold them in their lap on the way home were likely to have a lot of discipline problems with those kids their whole lives.  Kids who had to cry their way through the ride but were immeasurably safer by being left in the car seat were going to be just fine.   

I am sure there are exceptions but it sounds about right to me.

That's funny, because I remember strapping our daughter in her car seat for the ride home from the hospital, and she immediately started screaming like a banshee. We looked at each other and said "We better get the hell out of here before she wakes up the whole hospital!" She stayed in the car seat, of course.

MissNancyPryor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5686 on: January 15, 2020, 04:38:07 PM »
Good for you!  That white knuckle ride sets a precedent for so many future conflicts.

ysette9

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6156
  • Location: Bay Area, CA
    • The Best Is Yet To Come
Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5687 on: January 15, 2020, 04:57:38 PM »
It would have never occurred to me to take the baby out of the car seat. Who even thinks that way?

Cassie

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6101
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5688 on: January 15, 2020, 05:09:32 PM »
When my first was born 47 years ago they didnít make car seats for infants. I was relieved 4 years later when I had my second and they did. It would never occur to me to take them out.

Dave1442397

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Location: NJ
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5689 on: January 16, 2020, 05:46:51 AM »
I'd forgotten I took a photo. I can still hear that wail :)

DadJokes

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1193
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5690 on: January 16, 2020, 05:52:43 AM »
Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

scrunchythief

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5691 on: January 16, 2020, 06:22:06 AM »
And now, another tale of whoa: Spoke with my sister today about how my brother, who lives with my mother in his mid forties, has again charged unauthorized charges on her credit card. My sister is still in "help him" mode, even though this person has ripped all of us off over the decades, and is stunningly lazy, corrupt and abusive. Almost impressive actually. She said something like the problem is "he needs to learn to live within his means." First off, he has no means as he's chronically unemployed and works fewer hours in a year than I do in a week. Secondarily he has no need to get any means as he has a herd of enablers around him to "help help help." So embarrassed to be related to this clown haha

Goodness, this is what I'm so scared my brother's going to end up like.  They sound so similar, except my brother is in his mid twenties.  And it's pretty much just my mom enabling.  Which makes me worry about her retirement, especially since she pays a car loan on a car for him and is in almost 10k of credit card debt. 

If you don't mind my asking, do you still have a relationship with him?  If so, do you have any advice on how to navigate that?  If not, do you have any advice on how to maintain your relationship with your mom while he lives with her?  Thanks.

Well, it's difficult because one can't properly have a relationship with a corrupt person. My family is so naive and think the best of people that they just believe his lies and excuses. This is his currency and they're still accepting it. The problem with maintaining my relationship with my mother is that he not only lives with her he insisted on living in the front room as his bedroom, which is now hoarderville as he smokes pot and takes benzos daily while watching TV. One has to go past him to get to my mother's room way in the back. As he is a true professional victim, incredibly abusive as well as being armed, it's best to stay away. We did try for a long time. We all strongly insisted he not be permitted to live in the front room but my mother, as always, protected him from the big bad siblings so now they pretty much live in hoarderville and I refuse to visit. We all make our choices.

As far as advice goes--this got away from us because of women in my family not being able to hold boundaries. Lazy abusive men find these kind of women and use them--even if not maliciously, just in a whiny pussified way haha. It's difficult to ask a mother to prosecute and evict, but that's always on my wish list and I'm not one to care about somebody's housing more than they do. Save yourself, kid. And that's how people learn, by facing challenges and getting a harsh reality check.

I really needed to hear the bolded.  My mom keeps saying she wants my brother and I to have a good relationship, and I know the work of that would just fall on me.  I don't know if I'll  sever all lines of communication, but I've just decided I'm not going to strain myself over it, and if the relationship is a bit fake or shallow that's fine if that keeps me safe and sane.  And if I have to cut him, and even my mom, out of my life, I'll do it. 

Thank you.

Zoot

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 398
  • Location: USA
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5692 on: January 16, 2020, 07:07:31 AM »
My mom keeps saying she wants my brother and I to have a good relationship, and I know the work of that would just fall on me.  I don't know if I'll  sever all lines of communication, but I've just decided I'm not going to strain myself over it, and if the relationship is a bit fake or shallow that's fine if that keeps me safe and sane.  And if I have to cut him, and even my mom, out of my life, I'll do it. 

Thank you.

And thank YOU, scrunchythief, for saying the above--I really needed to hear every word of that, myself, especially the bolded.  Fake and shallow are not my standard operating procedure, but that may in some cases be the best of all possible outcomes.  As soon as "safe and sane" are clearly out of the question, then other choices can and must be made.

Thank you.  :)

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5693 on: January 16, 2020, 09:03:43 AM »
My mom keeps saying she wants my brother and I to have a good relationship, and I know the work of that would just fall on me.  I don't know if I'll  sever all lines of communication, but I've just decided I'm not going to strain myself over it, and if the relationship is a bit fake or shallow that's fine if that keeps me safe and sane.  And if I have to cut him, and even my mom, out of my life, I'll do it. 

Thank you.

And thank YOU, scrunchythief, for saying the above--I really needed to hear every word of that, myself, especially the bolded.  Fake and shallow are not my standard operating procedure, but that may in some cases be the best of all possible outcomes.  As soon as "safe and sane" are clearly out of the question, then other choices can and must be made.

Thank you.  :)
When dealing with a basically dishonest, corrupt, or predatory person, the best you can ever hope for is a cursory acquaintanceship. For that, all a person has to do is to be polite when you meet by chance. This means that if you're both guests at a large party, you greet them and conduct a civil conversation in which you give them absolutely no information about yourself. Be mannerly and polite, as though you were talking to a stranger. Any structured involvement where there's some sort of social contract is simply too much, because you're dealing with a person who basically gets off on violating social contracts. Making even the slightest effort at social interaction will backfire because the toxic person interprets it as an invitation to do inappropriate and toxic things, and abuse whatever access you're providing. This means you don't invite this person to your home, you don't treat them to meals, you don't exchange gifts or holiday cards, and you don't friend them on social media. You don't call them, text them, write to them, or meet them for lunch. You don't vent to them, you don't pass news along, you don't deliver messages from other people, and you don't discuss any problems you might be having. Anything you say can and will be used against you later. You also don't discuss them behind their back or send messages to them using other people as go-betweens. You also don't speak to them or interact with them alone. Make sure another person is present at all times. The presence of a witness often deters a toxic person from making a false accusation. Above all, don't do anything that might lead others to believe you and the toxic person are on good terms, because they can and will use your credibility to con others. Even holiday gift exchanges or being "friends" on social media is too much.

Corrupt people are adept at muddying the waters so that their actions and decisions appear to be reasonable. They're great at pretending to be socially awkward, "on the spectrum", or otherwise not accountable for their actions. There's always some kind of pretense of not being able to understand or remember when it's time to reciprocate a good turn, or what the standards and expectations are when it comes to respecting other people's boundaries and treating them well. But in reality it's just a pretense: when someone else does the same thing to them, they're suddenly and magically able to recognize inappropriate behavior when they see it. Toxic people cannot continue to function unless they're able to obfuscate the real issue, which is their decision to deliberately violate boundaries and social expectations. They do it to avoid consequences. They do it because the only way they will get to continue to trade on the benefit of other people's doubt is to generate a flaming metric ton of doubt in the first place.

There's a minimum safe distance from dysfunction, if you want to have a happy life yourself. No contact is very extreme, but it's sometimes necessary. The worst thing you can do is alternating periods of no contact and full contact: it sends the message that your "no" is meaningless and that your boundaries and standards aren't real-- in short, that you're the one who is the fake, or the drama artist, or the person responsible for the problem.

MissNancyPryor

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Northwest USA
  • The Stewardess is Flying the Plane!
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5694 on: January 16, 2020, 10:18:35 AM »

snip ~ smart things @TheGrimSqueaker says ~ snip


Also known as going "grey rock" with this kind of corrupt person.  There is lots of stuff online about how to do that and why it is so important, echoing what TGS has advised. 

SunnyDays

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5695 on: January 16, 2020, 10:44:47 AM »
Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of wok to live life like that.

SunnyDays

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 690
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5696 on: January 16, 2020, 10:45:18 AM »
That's "work."

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2229
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5697 on: January 16, 2020, 11:33:21 AM »
Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of work to live life like that.
A lot of work, yes, but most of the work is being done by other people. Which, for the individual who benefits by being the toxic person, makes it the path of least resistance. All they have to do is commit occasional acts of self-sabotage, or throw occasional tantrums, and everyone else kowtows. It isn't even really the effort of the individual so much as the entire community. You never find a corrupt or toxic person without a clique of enablers who like what they're doing and who appear to be doing their best to perpetuate it.

OtherJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2155
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5698 on: January 16, 2020, 11:35:41 AM »
Yes, my exact words were going to be "polite and civil."  That's it.  Makes you wonder how the H someone got so "corrupt."  Sounds like a lot of work to live life like that.
A lot of work, yes, but most of the work is being done by other people. Which, for the individual who benefits by being the toxic person, makes it the path of least resistance. All they have to do is commit occasional acts of self-sabotage, or throw occasional tantrums, and everyone else kowtows. It isn't even really the effort of the individual so much as the entire community. You never find a corrupt or toxic person without a clique of enablers who like what they're doing and who appear to be doing their best to perpetuate it.

This. So much. I've seen it in my family and friend groups.

shelivesthedream

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5146
  • Location: London, UK
Re: Relatives who just don't get it
« Reply #5699 on: January 16, 2020, 12:00:01 PM »
Ours was quiet and happy as a clam on the ride home. What does that say, other than I am way more fortunate than I deserve?

Me too. I spent the entire time checking he wasn't dead every fifteen seconds. Unclear what that says about my parenting style! If he had cried, I probably would have white-knuckled it home but there's a chance we would have pulled over to calm him down then started again...if I thought I actually had any idea what might have worked on a three day old baby. Which I 100% didn't. Also unclear what that says about my parenting style!